Lousi J;

Very true. The point is that violence and hate have been a part of this country since its birth. Everybody shares in that heritage, they are no exceptions. That is a fact that we can no longer deny. But, that does not mean it is right or morally desirable, it does not mean we have to accept that is just the way it is. We have the power to change that, all of us do, the issue is will we? Do we have the stones now to hold people responsible and accountable for what they say and do. This does not mean you can't say what you want, but with that right to do that you must also be willing to accept the responsibility that comes with it.

Great post LouisJ, this over politicizing of everything just needs to stop... including FR...

President Obama will be the same man he has always being.. he'll be gracious and show feeling of empathy to the victims... there are those who are already going to pounce on him regardless of whatever he says. It's a sad day in American when folks can no longer be objective about their leader.

Good morning LouisJ

President Obama will be the same president he has been for the past two years, pragmatic and straight forward.

It doesn't matter what the media says. President Obama is the cool Ivy League lawyer who speciality is Constitutional law. And that's why just as Tunde Akins says--"President Obama will be the same man he has always being-- he'll be gracious and show feeling of empathy." unlike Sarah and the rest of the righties in the FOX ECHO CHAMBER THE will not blame anyone. he'll focus on victims.

The media is the main culprit if there is any type of blame or fingers to point. I don't believe the murderer would commit this act toward the Congresswoman (but he may have eventually committed the act against someone) if the media did not continuously, nonstop, promote the likes of Palin, Limbaugh and their daily hate filled rants and diatribes.

So is it the media? Or the conservative blowhards? Which one? It obviously can't be because Loughner is crazy all on his own.

Is there any evidence he watched "Faux" News? Or subscribed to the ideologies of Beck and Hannity?

Well said, Louis J. Everyone including the media must look in the mirror.

CD: Is there any evidence he watched "Faux" News? Or subscribed to the ideologies of Beck and Hannity?

None. But this is LiberalLand, where facts don't matter, or are just made up to suit the Lefts dogma and warped view of the world.

Oh, and well said CD. I agree 100%.

Thanks, Louis. Well said.

The Republican Response Is…

Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TB) refused to condemn Palin's cross-hairs map. He urges the media to not talk about it.

Fox News abruptly cuts the feed from Gifford's vigil when a mourner mentions Sarah Palin's name. It a fact.

Roger Ailes says, "attempts to connect his network or the Tea Party to the shooting is bull@!$%#." What would you expect him to say?

Glen Beck's paranoid anti-government rhetoric sounds much like the shooters comments to "take back our government."

Newt Gingrich doesn't want to talk about the Arizona shooting.

Instead the GOPTP now favors improvements in the mental health care system. Parity between mental health and physical health will begin in 2014 under the new health care law. In fairness President Bush wanted to extend parity on June 17, 2008. But 146 Republicans opposed the bill.

The new Health Care Law will create parity for a much larger pool of mentally ill patients. The bill covers people with substance abuse issues, patients diagnosed with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and major depression. Yet next week Republicans in the House will vote to repeal health care. Don't they know what is good for the citizens of this country?

Chef Darrell

Is there any evidence he watched "Faux" News? Or subscribed to the ideologies of Beck and Hannity?

He doesn't have to watch FOX NOISE. It's ultra pervasive and so is it's message.

See my post #2.2 - Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:25 AM EST about the FOX NOISE echo chamber. Some places only get Fox.

@ Jody #1.5 ~ I confess that I don't feel much need to look in the mirror, and from what I've seen of you out here, you probably shouldn't either. We're not "all" to blame, although I hear that often enough, as I also hear much too often that this is not the time to play the "blame game." If not now, folks, then when?

That's what the bullies say after they've hurt you. Get over it. Let's move on. Because they know they're culpable, and they want to lay their own culpability off on you. You made me do it. You did it, too. Transference. It's like the oldest psychological trick in the book -- it's the same one that abusers use.

And they're using it again.

It's time to stop putting up with the bullies. Period. You and I didn't do this, Jody.

@ JoAnna #1.6 ~ I'll put my "warped" world view up against yours, or Rush Limbaugh's, or Glenn Beck's, any six days of the week, and twice on Sundays. Or do you seriously expect us to believe that facts matter to either one of them? In which case, do you expect us to believe they matter to YOU?

JoAnnaSmith1

None. But this is LiberalLand, where facts don't matter, or are just made up to suit the Lefts dogma and warped view of the world.

Actually, "liberal land" was also derisively called the "reality based community" by a Bush political operative, who also said that conservatives "create" their own reality. And JoAnna is very good at creating her own reality.

I don't see any connection between Palin's violent rhetoric and Loughner. His mind seems to have been in some weird place lightyears away from the world where left/right political debates take place. He probably never even saw her gun sight graphics or heard her "don't retreat reload" comment. But Palin knows what she did was wrong, as proved by the fact that she took down her gun sight web page after the shooting. It would have been a good move on Palin's part to have issued an apology for her more super-heated rhetoric. If Keith Olbermann can do it, why can't she?

That's what the bullies say after they've hurt you. Get over it. Let's move on. Because they know they're culpable, and they want to lay their own culpability off on you. You made me do it. You did it, too. Transference. It's like the oldest psychological trick in the book -- it's the same one that abusers use

Anna Molly --I know you directed this at Jody, but I have to tell you... you laid it out there brilliantly! *APPLAUDS*

Anna Molly:

Right on as usual. Let's not talk about it is not an acceptable defense. It just isn't.

Still cannot even begin to admit that you were wrong to blame politics for this act, can you?

Loughner became obsessed with the congresswoman in 2007, when she refused to answer his question, which was, " how can there be a government if words have no meaning?"

http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/11/57-of-americans-think-tone-of

Yeah. That is a real reference to Palin, the TEA parties, and any of the other handy targets of those who are exploiting this tragedy for their political ends.

By the way, Ron, you promised an apology for linking this man to the TEA parties. Or has no one yet proved the negative to you?

What is the REAL reason he is flying to Arizona? Don't they still have a camera in the Oval Office?

To refer to the headline, we ALL have a pretty good idea what the President will say. We also have a very good idea of what the majority of the rest of America will say.

"It's the right-wingers!" "It's the left-wingers!" "It's the liberals!" "It's the conservatives!" We'll be dead right. If we keep this insanity up, we'll be just plain dead.

There is an air of resignation that smothers the United States. (United! Really?). We cannot solve the problem with guns in this country. We can't solve the energy problem. We can't solve global warming. We can't do anything. We are responsible for nothing. We are victims. We are powerless.

WHAT! Please, if that is your attitude, go away. You have nothing to add. Don't argue with that point. If you believe nothing can be done, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO ADD. Go away, and take your name-calling, your never-ending repetition of talking points and dogma and let the adults come up with a solution.

Here's where we start. We understand that the guarantees of hands-off government in our Constitution are NOT absolute. We know we cannot yell, "Fire, fire, fire in a crowded theatre." We are not going to allow human sacrifice simply because it is presented as a church offering.

We must demand - not ask, not suggest - DEMAND that our gun laws are enforced. Punishment enhancements for crimes involving firearms must be enacted - if they are not already there, and in many cases they already are - and enforced. I would add this. Any person who has abused a firearm, regardless of circumstance shall never be permitted to possess a firearm. No one in his right mind can disagree with those solutions. On the subject of being in one's right mind, we must find the Loughner's with help, before they find us with a gun.

There has always been a philosophical argument in our history that argues either for or against government intervention; the argument for or against government itself and government regulation. The argument against government and regulation increased dramatically under Ronald Reagan while he served as Governor of California. The hands-off view, the anti-regulation mindset won. Help for the mentally ill was reduced to virtually nothing. They were released to the streets and to fend for themselves. This attitude continues to spread nationally.

It is absolutely true that one of the driving factors in the explosive growth of our prisons is that they have become de facto warehouses for the mentally ill. Did we solve some sort of problem? Does putting people in a prison environment, where we send nice people, contribute to a wellness program for the mentally ill? Do we expect them to become model citizens upon their release? Who is really crazy? Them? or us? for thinking this is a rational solution.

We can fix this problem and many, many more. We must. If you've given up, go away quietly. Really, really, really. You have nothing to add.

Loughner became obsessed with the congresswoman in 2007, when she refused to answer his question, which was, " how can there be a government if words have no meaning?"

I still maintain it's a Wittgenstein reference. I seriously want to know if Loughner had an interest in metaphysics and language philosophy.

@ No Joe ~ it was an easy connection to make. I confess to having made it, too, at first.

But it didn't take me long to see the real connection between Loughner and this tragedy.

Guns.

@ Feisty and Ron ~ Thank you both, so much. I've been starting to feel like I'm the crazy one. If you look at it a certain way, we're all responsible for everything. But I refuse to take responsibility for this particular thing, and I refuse to let those who are responsible off the hook that easily. That's just what they want you to do, so they can do it again with impunity.

As if they ever stopped, even to take a breath, and certainly not to reflect.

@ David Walker ~ Bravo. Well said.

I refuse to let those who are responsible off the hook that easily. That's just what they want you to do, so they can do it again with impunity.

Which they have demonstrated this week, by frantically attempting to talk about ANYTHING but responsibility!

The whole idea that the president is going to make a speech to the nation about this is ludicrous. There have been far worse disaters than this in this country. Plane crashes, car crashers, and children dieing every day from disease and murder, such as what happened here. But, there is no political issue with these events. No finger pointing or hate and contempt for the other party. No agenda to put forth. No one to villify, or spew hatred toward. It is a sham, and all here on this site that have commented, have joined the farce.

I love a good farce! You must as well, Dennis - otherwise you wouldn't have seen fit to grace us with your droppings of nutty wisdom.

AM: @ JoAnna #1.6 ~ I'll put my "warped" world view up against yours, or Rush Limbaugh's, or Glenn Beck's, any six days of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Great. To pull this back into context, the "warped view" the Liberals have is that Rightwing rhetoric is what caused last Saturdays shootings. Seeing you seem to agree with that statement AM, please provide your proof.

Your missing the point Dragon. It's not that I don't feel very bad about this. It is a tragedy. But, this no no more a tragedy than the events I discussed. These things have happened throughout history. Political murder and assassination is nothing new. To make this out like it is something new and so utterly horrendous is absurd. It does not surprise me that the liberal and conservative politicians and media are trying to exploit this as something other than it is. A whacked out sick individual that is an extremist in his views. These people have shown up throughout history and leave in their wake, mayhem and disaster. It happens, study history. It will happen again and again. No matter what is called for as far as political or social changes, this will happen again.

So, don't jump on the political bandwagon looking for people to blame. Blame the individual responsible. If you think that all the words and profound so called statements of “wisdom” by political hacks will stop this, I suggest you put up your hands and command the wind to stop.

No Jo:

You are looking for an apology because I claimed the shooter was a member of the tea party. Well, here it is. I overstated my case and I was wrong. For that I apologize.

Now it's your turn. Are you ready to apologize for falsely claming to have a Ph.D. in economics. Or do you wish to continue to be a fraud, lack credibility in all you say. I think the ball is in your court.

Ron Indiana: You are looking for an apology because I claimed the shooter was a member of the tea party. Well, here it is. I overstated my case and I was wrong. For that I apologize.

Apology accepted.

Dennis: if you think I blame anyone but Loughner, you haven't had a chance to read too many of my posts from Monday and yesterday.

I don't agree or disagree with it, JoAnna -- I said my warped view, not everyone else's on the left.

Now who can't read? Or, alternatively, makes seriously unwarranted logical leaps.

She checks her watch. I've got 14 minutes and 45 seconds to milk this one.

Bev, you are part of the problem, can you every say anything postive about anyone who does not share your views? Just once,it would be nice to see.

Fact is, Loughner fell into the worst possible place for the victims of his mental illness; He's too old to be on his parents insurance (until "Obamacare"), too much money for Medicare, not enough to buy his own insurance. Until changes in HCR kick in he'd still probably not get the level of help he needed, because most insurance plans put strict limits on mental health coverage. Certainly limits too low to help regulate his obviously substantial problems.

So, now you've got a mentally ill individual with difficulty facing reality and controlling his anger. All he needs to give him "permission" to act on that is a culture that denigrates the intent, integrity, and legitimacy of the government and a constant drumbeat of inflammatory, sometimes violent rhetoric.

That's what Palin, Beck, and their compatriots provide.

Language has consequences.

John B, Des Moines, IA: That's what Palin, Beck, and their compatriots provide.

Of course you have proof, correct? Please provide.

John B, Des Moines, IA: Language has consequences.

So does the truth, something that doesn't appear to be on your side.

Others on the Left are starting to take a step back from their fabricated rants about the Right being the cause of this John. It's time you consider joining that party.

JS1, your sudden amnesia of the DOZENS of examples of inflammatory language over the last few days confirms as always that you have no interest in facts or truth. Here's a good one;

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building." -- Ann Coulter

Oh, this was a classic, Glenn Beck pretending to be Barack Obama setting an American citizen on fire;

F. D. D.

They just can't help themselves...

Obama: "They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun"“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama told the audience. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.

** Obama to His Followers: "Get in Their Faces!"“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.

** Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!".......I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry,” Mr. Obama said, his voice reaching a peak seven days after learning of the bonuses given to employees of the American International Group. “What I want to do, though, is channel our anger in a constructive way.”

** Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard".....And they screened TV ads and reviewed the various campaigns by critics of the Democratic plan. If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard, Messina(not Obama) said, according to an official who attended the meeting.

** Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick."....NBC's Matt Lauer asked Obama about the criticism that he should spend more time in the Gulf instead of with experts and "kick some butt."...Obama told NBC his deliberations have been more than academic......."I don't sit around talking to experts because this is a college seminar," Obama continued. "We talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose ass to kick."

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean "hand to hand combat"...........A Republican majority in Congress would mean “hand-to-hand combat” on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy, President Obama warned Wednesday…"They are fired up. They are mobilized. They see an opportunity to take back the House, maybe take back the Senate," he said. "If they're successful in doing that, they've already said they're going to go back to the same policies that were in place during the Bush administration. That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here on Capitol Hill."

Obama to lib supporters: "It's time to Fight for it." ...."When it comes to taking a punch, I don't know whether you're Muhammad Ali or Floyd Patterson," Axelrod wrote to Obama in a November 2006 memo reported in a new book that reprises the campaign by Washington Post political reporter Dan Balz and former Post writer Haynes Johnson. Now Obama supporters are wondering about their man. If they're to see what he's made of, Obama has to first get in the ring. Forget the niceties, it's time to fight.

Obama to Latino supporters: "Punish your enemies."..“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

** Obama to democrats: "I'm itching for a fight."As fellow Democrats accuse him of caving in to Republicans on the tax cut deal, President Obama is repeatedly promising them that he will fight the GOP aggressively when it takes over the U.S. House and adds senators next month. "I will be happy to see the Republicans test whether or not I'm itching for a fight on a whole range of issues," Obama said last week. "I suspect they will find I am. And I think the American people will be on my side on a whole bunch of these fights."

Enough with this... well you guys do it to!

We'll be waiting for you to put into context: 'Bullets over Ballots'! or 'Second Amendment remedies'!

No Jo

After reading all these post, i see that there is a large amount of Guilt on both sides of the political spectrum for this happening. No political party want to own up to the fact we are all to blame.

the right is defending them selves, even though glen beck has in the past call for people to bear arms again the government intrusion into there lives, the left is Mad that one of there own was the Target, and want some body to blame, so Sarah, Glenn and Rush are the lefts scape Goat. the right in defense of Sarah, Rush and Glenn beck are bringing up everything any Democrat has said in the last 40 years as proof that the democrats are to blame.

But No Jo you are the ONLY person that has consistently brought up the mental health Issues, and i commend you for that.

Wow Feisty, I guess they tried to pull these stunts before and you have called their comedic bluffs yet again. SMH.

I am disgusted that everything that anyone says is worthy of another opinion. Some people can argue about anything ad nauseum. Sarah Palin has none of the fine qualities that BARACK OBAMA posseses. Anyone can incite people to riot, not everyone is as truly concerned about peole as the President is, and his calm is unequalled.

Alex - What world do you live in? Oz? Obama doesn't care about anything but Obama. Wipe your mouth, you have kppl-aid on your chin.

John B, Des Moines, IA

JS1, your sudden amnesia of the DOZENS of examples of inflammatory language over the last few days confirms as always that you have no interest in facts or truth. Here's a good one;

==================

John, I'm not talking about others, Beck, or Coulter, I'm talking about you! You're trying oh so hard to convey some kind of guilt by accusation to the Right in the country for last Saturdays shooting, but you're failing on a grand scale. Others on the Left have begun to back away from that very same assertion, still others on the Left are in full retreat. But you continue to hang in there, and it's not clear why. You have continually failed to make the connection between anyones rhetoric and those shootings.

Is there rhetoric, both on the Left and Right, that is harsh and angry? Answer: Yes

Did the shooting in Arizona happen last Saturday? Answer: Yes

You've been trying to connect those two facts by making the first one the cause and the second one the result, and you have failed.

The battle is over John, and your side lost. Big time.

It is interesting that people only point to "hate" speech from the right. Has anyone ever listened to Olberman, Maddow, or Mattews? These people epitomize hate speech, yet no one critisizes them. We as Americans need to look at ourselves in the mirror and see just how ugly this nation is right now. We need to unite against those that would divide.

We are all fools!! Don't you see we are playing right it to the hands of the media? As they say in show business "any publicity is good publicity". Media wins hands down!! Hanity, Limbaugh, Maddow are entertainers first and foremost or they would not have a job. We fools, gladly let them dictate their rhetoric and pay them for it!! and guess who is laughing all the way to the bank? Can anyone of us say that we would actually seek out and ask any of these media celebrities for advice (and then use it), of course not! Then how can we possibly believe that there endless rhetoric is responsible for for some twisted persons obscene actions! We are giving them all way to much credit. Or maybe not.

There is no comparison between Palin and President Obama ~ one is an idiot, a quitter and a riot inciter and the other is compassionate, calm and looking for ways to compromise.

In all the above postings, there is not one quote that rings more disastrous for our nation than this one: "Don't Retreat, Reload!" You can only come to one conclusion with that comment; if the conclusion is not the obvious one, then please let's ask Palin what exactly she did mean. In fact, I think that would have been a good question from the very beginning ~ why wait for a massacre and then try to interpret the meaning . . .

Palin did not pull the trigger but, sadly, she did provide the hateful rhetoric.

Wolfpack,

That is what is so entertaining about the left...the hypocrisy is so laughable. I have seen most of these posters back pedaling all week. Last Saturday they came out swinging with next to none of the facts. Everything was the fault of the right, of conservative radio, of Fox news, of Sarah Palin...since then I have enjoyed watching each of them retreat and eat their words. By yesterday they were condeming all the hateful comments that they themselves made on Saturday...It would be funny if it wasn't just so sad. peace out!

@watt75

Right, left, up, down, front or back ~ we are all Americans and through compromise can all come out of this as one.

What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?!?

I live here in AZ's 8th District and I have NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER in hearing what Obama has to say here in Tucson. The man is fighting us on SB1070, a law for which there is overwhelming for in our State and across the nation. Gabrielle Giffords has stood against Obama suiing AZ.

He DOES NOTHING to help us with our problems with border with Mexico.

He is also fighting AZ on the topic of "Health Care Reform" for which he has PUSHED DOWN OUR THROATS not caring one iota that we cannot afford it as a state.

The sooner he finishes his taking advantage of this political moment and leaves AZ, *THE BETTER* as far as I am concerned. As far as I am concerned, finish your speech - get on your plane, get out and DONT come back.

What I find funny is those on here that criticize Palin, Beck, Limbaugh for the rhetoric they used as being violent and hateful, when much of it is taken out of context. They all make the accusations that there are those on the right that will act on those words. Yet, constantly defend some of the president's words. I realize that a lot of what he has said has been taken out of context by many people, but to think it is only those on the right that will take his words out of context is wishful thinking. By calling people his enemies, regardless of what the full context was, there will be those on the left, as well as the right, who take his words out of context and treat conservatives as enemies. The analogy Palin used to "target" a district has long been used not only in politics but other aspects of life. Business use the word "target" for a range of things. That's not inticing violence, only in politics. The context of her map was to encourage voters to for her side over the oppents, not to go out and kill someone. Yet, those on the left say it intices violence. Why? because people take it out of context, just as the presidents quotes have been by both sides.

LouisJ, you make a good post on here. However, you lost me again where you only want to place blame on the right. No mention of Maddow, Oblerman, Lawrence O'Donnel, who are all just as guilty of this type of rhetoric as those on the right. Please do not get me wrong, I am not defending some of the rhetoric that the right has used. But to only say it's coming from the right, is purely wrong. That, in my opinion, is why so many on the right have been on the defensive. When constantly attacked, and the left is attacking when they only place blame on or metion the right wing commentators without addressing the same on the left, people will defend themselves. It's a natural reaction. You attack me, I defend myself, and attack back. Believing anything different is just wishful thinking.

My guess would be Obummer.....Will be his usual robotic self.......as he gives his speech tonight.....he will say what his aides prepared him to say.....and bore all to tears.......The way he usually does.....in that way we have grown accustomed....

No one wears the ‘V’ as in victim better than the Quitter from Wasilla!

Anyone else surprised she’s still hiding behind Facebook?

Why is it she can’t come out and hold a ‘press conference’ like any other political figure?

Possibly, because there’s not enough room on her hand to write her notes?

In a scathing Facebook post and web-video tirade, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin accused the media of “blood libel” against herfor mentioning her infamous cross-hair map in the wake of the shooting in Tucson. Palin called journalists and pundits’ focus on her “reprehensible,” and said it “serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn.”

What’s ‘reprehensible’ is someone who ran around the country ranting & raving for candidates to ‘man up’ & inciting others to ‘don’t retreat – reload’, doesn’t have the testicular fortitude herself that she brags about!

She’s made a fortune inciting anger & violence and not the ‘caribou’ appears to have her tongue!

Isn’t it ironic… don’t ya think?

Once again… when the going gets tough she QUITS!

BTW: President Obama's approval rating is now over 50% - there's sure to be plenty of denial of polling methods and teeth gnashing to accompany that news this morning!

Feisty

Again we're on the same page

Some Really Frightening Things

Let’s see the shooter is not a tea bagger.

But, if the shooter were a brown muslim the right would call him a terrorist. The shooter makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in “mind control on the people by controlling grammar.” That’s not the kind of idea that’s very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to “enslave” Americans and offers up his truly weird “Truth-language” as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.
The shooter also makes a reference to a “second American constitution.” As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that “raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie” in the Arizona shooting. Fox News is reporting on an internal Department of Homeland Security message suggesting some tie between Loughery and American Renaissance, a kind of white-collar racist group. 3) The shooter was obsessed With the Constitution
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/01/09/who-is-jared-lee-loughner/
Surprised? Oh, well
AP-GfK Poll: Democrats slightly improved their standing on most issues, most notably surpassing Republicans on handling the economy for the first time since June: 45 percent trust the Democrats to handle it, 40 percent the Republicans. Democrats also pulled even with Republicans on managing the federal budget deficit, and they expanded their advantage on handling health care.
I think Glenn Beck the grand poohbah wrote Sarah’s speech on video.

Sarah Palin has posted a nearly eight-minute video on her Facebook page condemning those who blame political rhetoric for the Arizona shooting that gravely wounded U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
Since Sarah waited just before the Presidents memorial speech and says says in her video the pudits& media accusations are reprehensible I’m assuming this time Glenn Beck wore his Holy Father padre hat instead his white fedora gangster hat.

BTW: WTH does Beck mean the President should follow Beck's lead? Beck is an idiot.

Excellent Navy:

What would Fox ever do if they had to stick to the truth and become a legitimate News Network?

What would Glen Beck do if he had to discontinue his paranoid anti-government rhetoric?

Where would Rush Limbaugh go if he stopped using pretzel logic and hateful comments?

I don't expect the above to admit guilt or apologize, but it is reasonable to expect that they stop the vitriol and lies.

Beck is an idiot.

Morning Bev!

Here's a couple of recent 'hit's from Beck's TOP 10 list!

– “Progressives have been patient for decades, creeping their way into the system in the cover of darkness. And this is their opportunity. They’re going to deal a final death blow to the Constitution if they can.” [1/20/10]

– Health care reform “is the end of the Constitution.” [1/04/10]

– Progressivism “is the poison that’s killing our Constitution”; “We’ve got to irradiate it.” [1/21/10]

– “I do not want the government controlling my diet.” [3/10/10]

– The government is using the census to “increase slavery.” [3/09/10]

Beck is a paranoid HATE merchant - a VERY rich paranoid HATE merchant!

PS: Always a pleasure to be on the same page with ya! ;o)

Feisty, Bev;

The crap continues, when you use a phrase like Blood Libel (words have meaning and conjure up images) the first thing that popped into my head was the persecution of the Nazi's against the Jews. The hate and Violent rhetoric that was, I saw images of concentration camps, ovens, gas chambers and worse. This rhetoric has only fanned the flames. This is really getting out of hand fast. Palin's comparison to her being treated the same as the Jews is beyond repugnant. Complete and total denial from the right on just about everything. I do not know what alternate universe they live in, but it will Nova soon if they are not careful.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Over the last few days I have noticed a pattern with some of the posters. Instead of engaging in civil dialogue they have resorted back to random and chaotic denials of some of the facts. All they want to do is distract others from the truth and use this tactic as a weapon to try and sidetrack any discussion on virtually any topic. What has happened this weekend goes beyond any political party. Anybody who promotes hate and violence needs to be held responsible for their actions

Exactly Navy

Thanks for your message yesterday about snakiness.

The distractors, you have to understand, are being educated from the likes of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh. Mike Levine, Savage etc. and all otherS in the FOX NATION.

Why, when faced with the truth, are there still people insisting that it is not the truth?

Politics had nothing whatsoever to do with this tragedy- Loughner became obsessed with the congresswoman in2007. He is mentally ill, and was not treated, nor even diagnosed.

Is it because there is a refusal to admit that consigning the mentally disturbed to lives on the streets, eating out of dumpsters, might have been the wrong thing to do, even if the reasons were laudable?

Is it because waiting for someone who is so obviously disturbed to commit an act of violence before committing them has, once again, been proven to be a ridiculous way of addressing the problem?

It seems that this is a discussion that no one is willing to have.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/mental-illness-and-mass-murder/

Notice that the author, whose own brother is schizophrenic, has been seeking a publisher for THREE YEARS. He has been told that no one is interested in reading his work

Think maybe someone is interested now?

On this board, at least, too many are interested in focusing attention where it does not belong, rather than confronting the very real issues presented by this tragedy.

It was not political rhetoric, but mental illness.

He is not a terrorist, like the Fort Hood shooter, who was propelled by religious fanaticism. He is a mentally disturbed individual who was compelled by his disease.

Beating the wrong drum will not address the situation, nor will it prevent a repeat in the future. Only by recognizing the actual cause can we even hope to stop any future tragedies.

The Liberals have once again really overplayed their hand. They struck quick and tried oh so hard to take advantage of the tragedy in Arizona with the chant "It's the Rights fault!!", but sane people disagree. No one is buying the bs the Left is putting out. Now the Lefts attempt at scoring political points has degraded into their usual whining and complaining about gun laws, Palin, Limbaugh, and Fox News.

For Palin, as she issues her tweet on the tragedy seems unable to leave the violence tinged rhetoric out of it....use of the term 'blood libel' speaks volumns about her inability to form thoughts, that are conciliatory.

It seems that she, Palin, may need mental health intervention. Paranoia!

Great post, US Navy. Those who cannot acknowledge their mistakes will continue to repeat them.

Why, when faced with the truth, are there still people insisting that it is not the truth?

I do not know. Can you tell us why Ms. Palin did just that???

If Sarah Palin does not believe that she or any other politicians and/or pundits have a sphere of influence, then why does she continue to operate in the public arena, or more specifically, in the political public arena? If she really didn't think that her opinion was going to influence the opinion of at least one other person, then she would not give all those speeches she is paid to give. She would not have written a book, or had a reality TV show . . . instead, she would stay home and stay out of the spotlight.

Give me a break, she is full of it . . . and it stinks to high heaven.

God bless the families of the fallen, the families of the victims, the citizens of Tuscon and the United States of America.

One year later, God bless, GOD BLESS the people and the island nation of Haiti.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Why, when faced with the truth, are there still people insisting that it is not the truth?

I do not know. Can you tell us why Ms. Palin did just that???

I'm thinking the not really Mama Grizzly, pit bull coward hahhahaa (lip sticked mouse is more appropriate)is ready to return to Fox Noise now that the funerals are over.

BTW: libel??? Does this mean she is ready to cash in with law suits?

Sarah is a coward!!! She can't stand on her own 2 feet. Her handlers spent so much money on her now they have to protect their investment.

JoAnnasmith... the issue of the AZ shooting has been totally beaten... stop beating a dead horse and please say something that will make the country better. It's like I don't need to read ur posts anymore...just too predictable.

Politics had nothing whatsoever to do with this tragedy- Loughner became obsessed with the congresswoman in2007. He is mentally ill, and was not treated, nor even diagnosed.

Nobody knows if it is or is not true. The jury is still out on what really happened and what may have pushed him over the edge. Mental problem for sure.

Appears Dr. NO now also has a PHD in mental health these days as well!

Her wall must be getting pretty full! lol

FR LIBERALS GET RID OF BLUE DOG CONGRESSWOMAN - COMMENTS LEAD LIBERAL TO RAMPAGE!

What a ridiculous and pathetic statement!

Yet wasn't it 2-3 weeks ago that all the lefties were talking about the need "to get rid of the blue dogs", how they don't vote for the party - they vote for their constituents. Remember Navy? (Wasn't this the thread where I ask if you were a socialist). Could your inflamed rhetoric have contributed to the shooting? OF COURSE NOT! The guy's mug shot looks a villain from a Batman movie. He TALKS TO SKULLS! He is crazy. Like I said above, it is pathetic and ridiculous to frame you guys that way. Why do you frame the rifgt that way?

Maybe your just too blinded in your bigotry to see the difference. After all this time for you to understand and settle down - to get it, maybe you never will and we just need to dumb down the rest about this rhetoric stuff and cross hairs stuff.

Let's get rid of (whoops - can't use that term) Lets start a campaign..(whoops - that is a military term) Lets eliminate the (that doesn't look good).....

Why don't we join together in the spirit of mindless political correctness to approve appropriate standards for American Lexicon to prevent people who talk to skulls from shooting us. There that's not bad.

First thing "nuclear option" - We can't risk a crazy Russian that follows Sarah's tweets thinking Harry is talking about something else when he mentions those words and the Ruskie hits the big red button.

"Battleground States" - You don't want really, really, really old white guys grabbing their muskets, loading real minnie balls in their rifles and playing Gettysburg again. "War on Poverty" - Throwing a grenade at a homeless person is just wrong. "Blitz" - 90 year olds behind buicks are bad enough, we all agree that the senile old koots behind a MK IV Panzer is not good. "Fall on your sword" - Obama's aides should be very happy with this one. "Bombshell" - Monica? Maddow? Maybe this one is ok. Anyway you guys get the idea.

And hey, what about sports? - their crazies have 14th equal protection rights too. No more "war in the trenches" for football, Joe Buck should be immediately arrested for describing a Josh Hamilton home run as a "blast" and basketball ball should just be banned for all the "shooting" and rebound "battles".

And hey, what about business? Start with those manuals - we can't have mom "loading" a 250 round belt of 7.62 machine gun ammo in the dryer, in a DVD, in dishwasher, in a copier - that ought save 30-31 million lives a year alone, right.

Should be fun - certainly help the unemployment rate hiring enough people to cover everything, right.

Or......... you guys could just grow up.

Feisty:

NJ has no degrees in either economics or mental health. She is a fraud with no credibility. In short, she does not know what she is talking about.

Great post USN, I would suggest to Allen West that he present himself for a mental health evaluation. He doesn' t have to wait for the HCR to be fully available, he has, by his own admission agreed to keep the health insurance from the government resulting from his military service. I hope he takes advantage of that taxpayer benefit.

Ron is worked up about credibility?

Where is yours? You categorically stated that Loughner was a member of the TEA parties, then said you would apologize if "proved wrong".

Cute semantic trick from an Alinskyite.

For the record, I am not a veterinarian, but I do recognize the difference between a cat and a dog. No one not blinded by their need to turn this tragedy to their political advantage does not recognize that this is a seriously disturbed individual.

The exploitation is disgusting. Oh, and by the way, is not working.

She is a fraud with no credibility

You forgot pathological serial liar!

I can't think of anyone else who's been busted repeatedly by the moderators... lol

I'll give her credit though - she keeps coming back for more!

I'll give her credit though - she keeps coming back for more

When you have the truth, facts and sanity on your side that's all you can do. Keep trying to get the hate-spewers like you on here to face the truth,

But it's just not ever gonna happen as long as this board is consumed by the hate-mongers i.e. Feisty, Beverly, Navy and the rest.

I truly pity you.

Oh yeah, the republicans are just full of the truth and the American way. You can take your pity and put it where the sun doesn't shine. We do not need it but you need a super helping of humanity .

TA: JoAnnasmith... the issue of the AZ shooting has been totally beaten...

Really? Then why do our friends at FR keep posting articles about it?

It's like I don't need to read ur posts anymore...

Then don't.

Good to see Fiesty, Bev, and Navy have decided to "tone it down" and wait for the facts on ANY causative link between any political talk and the shooting. Then again, does anyone really think they have any understanding of causation? We know from their comments they do not.

So they have lost the "it's Palin's fault" argument - no causation, and no one's (outside of MSNBC-land and KOS) is buying it. They have moved to "guns are bad" but this here is America, and gosh darn it we (those us us "clinging to guns and our religion") like our guns and it is dawning on them that they have lost that argument also. Even Larry O, and admitted socialist understands where he lives and has given that one up. So now I guess they go to trying to ridicule posters here for their opinions. Oh, no, Fiesty, Navy and Bev don't agree with me! Oh wait, that's a really good thing. Let's face it, if any of us, including many left leaning posters here ran into Fiesty or Bev in person they's run away as fast as they can.

And Ron, 1. what degrees do you have; and 2. since when is there a minimum education requirement to participate in the discussion? Kinda smacks as elitist, no? Or do those of us with post graduate degrees get a brownie button? Cause I'd totally be cool with that.

But I'm confident that both Fiesty and Bev have multiple degrees.

Scott Kelly in regard to his sister-in-law, Gabby Giffords:

..What is going on in our country that such a good person can be the subject of such senseless violence?...

"...As I look out the window, I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful," said Cmdr Kelly. "Unfortunately, it is not."

"These days, we are constantly reminded of the unspeakable acts of violence and damage we can inflict upon one another, not just with our actions but also with our irresponsible words."

"We are better than this. We must do better," he said.

Again: "WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS, WE MUST DO BETTER."

Retired Vet. You always think you're right and the Rpubs are wrong. You're part of the problem. Keep pushing the right into a corner and you'll only make matters worse.

This are some of the comments on Saturday right after the shooting-

Feisty

How can shooting a politician at point blank range NOT be politically motivated?

Feisty

I predicted the summer of 2009 that the right wing hate merchants would 'wash their filthy hands' of the mess WHEN blood was finally spilled...

You don't shoot a politician at POINT BLANK range and claim it wasn't 'politically motivated' PERIOD!

Here's some quarters for you righties... you're going to need them for your 'spin cycle'

What a Heartless B!tch from NJ - 8 freakin people DIED and she wants to play partisian politics (before she was against it.)

No surprise here...

Give ME a F*ckin break!

What I blame is HER and the rest of her ILK... spewing HATE & bull@!$%# 24/7! And until she denounces it there is BLOOD on her HANDS!

You're silence on this SPEAKS volumes!

And isn't it interesting that from the beginning, all no jo has been concerned about is a judge who was appointed by Republicans.

Gingerbread Mamma

Nojo, you can spin your convoluted thinking anyway you like, the shooter was a fan of Sarah Palin and said so on his Facebook account.

Thanks NDD this willful ignorance and inability to acknowledge that words and actions have consequences is part of the problem, they are so very proud of their ignorance......Ph.D indeed!

I see a common theme here today. Republicans were willing to get in bed with anti government, far right, wing nuts to win an election. Now they've woken up in the morning next to the big ugly truth that some of these folks might have been more than a little crazy and they're scrambling to make sure none of their friends find out about it.

Feisty- Responding to Gingerbread

***STANDS & APPLAUDS***

Now they can't run away fast enough!

Words have consequences and it's about time they are held accountable!

I Must Be Dreaming

I blame the whole republican party... they were all doing this lying... and gets these nut jobs crazy enough to kill..And know it has happened because of Palin ...Rush McCain Bachman Beck etc ....All now have blood of a child on their hands !!!

Kevin-458252

No, they had to up the ante, and kill a federal judge and critically wound a U.S Congresswoman.

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THE U.S CONSTITUTION GIVES A PERSON THAT KIND OF POWER?

SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THE HOLY BIBLE DOES IT COMPEL A PERSON TO DO THIS!!!!

I have to ask you Conservatives and GOTPers this:

What are you going to do to those that DO NOT share your political view?

What are you going to do to those that DO NOT look like you, or come from a different creed than you?

What other steps are you going to take in order to make yourself feel secure in your rampant delusional state?

How much damage are you willing to inflict on the U.S Population, and what is yet to come?

Fesity

BIG Surprise - NO source for your info NJNB! After all this time, it's not like we would expect one...

In case you haven't noticed, NO ONE is arguing that this young man wasn't mentally unbalanced.

Words & Actions have consequences and like it or not the HATE merchants on the right ARE GOING to be held accountable no matter how hard you try to spin it!

You see. the conversation is going to HAPPEN with or without you!

Your refusal to denounce it - tells us all we need to know about you!

Chef Darrell

f you want to call it spin, whatever. Your opinions don't matter to me.

I'll wait for evidence to come out instead of immediately jumping on the political bandwagon.

Bev.

Don't hold you breath Fox News is the spin zone. I know of no left media sources that have mentioned Palin as the motivating factor her name yes, but the reason; but Nooo NOT Fox. Fox is too chicken to mention Palin's name.

Fox News started covering a vigil that was happening at the steps of the capitol in Arizona in honor of Gabrielle Giffords after she was shot earlier today. As soon as a young man mentioned Sarah Palin's name, FOX News abruptly cut to commercial. It's sickening. FOX News will do anything to protect the investment they have made in Sarah Palin, even at the expense of Rep. Giffords.

On the other hand, the right is taking its usual cowardly blame the left stand

As Arizona Shooting Story Unfolds, Media Already Blaming Tea Party/Sarah Palin

Feisty

Remember she is one of the unbalanced she can't help it.

How kind of Dr. No to pass out instructions on how to access ones Newsvine page!

I would suggest everyone do just that.. What you will find about NJNB is:

1.) She posts daily rants on I HATE EVERYTHING OBAMA!

2.) She's a pathological liar and has been called out not only by fellow posters but the moderators as well on numerous occasions!

3.) She's unwilling to denounce the hate speech coming from with in her own party!

4.) She claimed she has a PHD in economics with is another blatant lie!

Yes... please do visit her site and get to know the NJ fraud a little better!

A word of advice - make sure to take some anti-nausea medication before doing so...

Elly

Palin needs to be held accountable for murder.

nojo

You might want to slow down- cause you have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

This is a guy who believes that the government is practicing mind control by the use of Grammar.

He is neither left nor right- he is nuts.

Here is a link

Here is a link on his school issues

Here are some of the facts about Jared Lee Loughner that have come out today:

You attack nojo and NJNB but where they running to concussions? No, but you guys already found Fox News, Republicans, Tea Party and Sara Palin quilty. What ever happen to innocent until proven guilty.

How pathetic!

Oh my gosh, Feisty, you have ANOTHER fan? By the way thetotas: you come here every day and spew nothing but hate against people you disagree with. I honestly cannot remember you making a substantive point about anything. When will you take your own advice? Frankly, you bore the snot out of me.

Isn't he adorable NDD?

He's trying his damnest to get into the Feisty Redhead fan club... but as you can see has quite a bit of work to do before he's granted admission! ;o)

this is a memorial service, not a political rally. all political talk should be kept out of this evening. and i believe president obama will do that. not turn it into a political circus, but show respects for the fallen and their families. i hear the loughtner's were responsible parents who sent their adult child to a specialist and he was on medication. if this is true,let's pray for them. they should not feel guilt. if an adult chooses to stop taking their meds. the parent's can't be blamed for that. we don't know what the circumstances were at home. i wish president obama would include them in his prayers and speech tonight. they are suffering and i can't imagine to what extent.

I think he is a she, but I'm sure she will do her best to meet the entry requirements. Honestly, Feisty, how do you generate such loyalty?

So here we go again, comments from the same individuals, Navy, Fiesty, Bev, calling for blame on the right due to the rhetoric and then incessant attacks by on those individuals on the right calling them idiots, hate mongers, morons. etc. Then when called out by someone on the right pointing out all the hate Bev. Fiesty, etc have spewed, they viciously attack that person as well. Or they'll simply ignor the poster. Either way, my point will be proven when I'm either attacked or ignored by them. Why not have a civil debate for a change?

Here's a couple of recent 'hit's from Beck's TOP 10 list!

– “Progressives have been patient for decades, creeping their way into the system in the cover of darkness. And this is their opportunity. They’re going to deal a final death blow to the Constitution if they can.” [1/20/10]

– Health care reform “is the end of the Constitution.” [1/04/10]

– Progressivism “is the poison that’s killing our Constitution”; “We’ve got to irradiate it.” [1/21/10]

– “I do not want the government controlling my diet.” [3/10/10]

– The government is using the census to “increase slavery.” [3/09/10]

Beck is a paranoid HATE merchant - a VERY rich paranoid HATE merchant!

Fiesty, please tell me how any of the above statements are hateful? I fail to see your point here!

Newday, That's not true. I do not spew hate I comment on it. Some people who write on this blog have really interesting views, and I am curious what other people think about whats going on with our country.

What I dont like are bullies, people who attack you because you may have a different view on things.

And you are exactly that thetotas. Nothing more, nothing less.

Theotas,

I have to ask you a question:

When the hell did I slam your head into your monitor in order for you to have a concussion?

Jumped to a CONCLUSION, O.K, you might have gotten me there, (SNICKERS) but a CONCUSSION?!?!?!

SMDH!!!

Are you aware of any "Transporter" Technology breakthrough that I'm not aware of?!?!?

And even since it was PROVEN that Loughner WAS NOT Affiliated with ANY political faction, and can be classified as an ISOLATED EVENT, you CANNOT IGNORE the vitriol that we've from the right for well over two years so I REPEAT:

What are you going to do to those that DO NOT share your political view?

What are you going to do to those that DO NOT look like you, or come from a different creed than you?

What other steps are you going to take in order to make yourself feel secure in your rampant delusional state?

How much damage are you willing to inflict on the U.S Population, and what is yet to come?

IR:

Excellent post. I agree with every word.

Beautiful post, IR---thank you for putting these thoughts into words. Those who were lost are everyday heroes and my deepest sympathies are with their families and friends as they cope with an unspeakable tragedy.

Dear I.R.

Words can be so wonderful when coming from the 'pen' of a thoughtful and sincere individual such as yourself. This is really lovely. You do have a way with words. thank you.

IR:

Thank you for saying it so well. I could not agree more.

Beautifully said, IR. You have captured the essence of what today is all about--we are one nation united by sorrow.

FTW, IR. Peace, bro.

Pretty words IR, but there is no way Obama can pass up a chance to run his face to propagate hate and further his agenda of dividing & destroying this country.

Thank all of you for your kind thoughts

Real I did not come here today to debate or to provide a foundation for debate either Pro or Con. In my world today is not the day for that. I’ll be more than happy tomorrow to take a stand, give you some references and a thought or two and everybody can have at one another and me

Today my sole purpose was to show my respect and to remind folks on both sides of our discussion that because he occupies the elected office of the President of the United States on days like today like it or not he speaks for all of us. We the People.

I get it. You don’t have much Respect for the President. Many that post here don’t. I’m sure that most of them read or skipped over this because of the name that is attached to it. All save you elected to not disrespect the thoughts expressed up there and thus I thank them for their consideration and respect for at least the tone of a day of Memorial for our fallen heroes.

Apparently the circumstances of your pitiful little existence and the way you have decided to pursue it will not allow you to show any respect for The President, me, your fellow posters, or the folks that I came here today to honor. That would seem to me to be a right pitiful way to live.

IR, Thank you.

Not only was the original post very insightful, your second post was exactly to the point.

Redneck - The minute that the Sheriff and those on the left immediately turned this into something political and started blaming Palin, Rush, and others, then Pandora's box was opened. Maybe, the liberals along with the president should have stepped up and set a different tone instead of using a tradegy for political purposes and divide this country even further. Read the rest of the posts and open your eyes. I don't see much Kumbaya going on. The pitiful little existence is all yours in Wonderland. Wake up and join the real world.

Double-or-Nothing if you can also say "Narcissist" in the same sentence!

haha... that's funny... I'm surprised I haven't heard that on in a while.... Now that the Tan man says he's American... maybe some of the extreme right wont think he's just a Kenyan citizen trying to put the USA under Keynesian control of Africa, lol.

Da Noid, wonder if the narcissistic president can see his reflection in the teleprompter while he is making speeches. LOL! I take pay pal. Don't hate...it was a joke!

Neat- a Palin supporter still lurks among the living.

Typical of Palin, though, to not be able to just say "it's sad, and let's hope it isn't repeated", instead of "HEY- not MY fault!". A prediciton: one year from now, she will STILL be bring this 'how I was crucified' thing up.

She could have at least commented that it is sad that political discourse could possibly lead to violent actions by a mentally derange individual.

She is so full of it. So typical, nothing hearfelt, nothing sincere, and nothing spontaneous. She came on the scene in 2008 and from the start has been sarcastic, ignorant and poorly spoken. She will never be able to walk back anything she has said. She is a rabblerouser pure and simple and appeals only to those who have no empathy for their fellow man.

All Palin did was CYA and try to appear civil. She blew that out of the water with her blood libel statement. It turns out that she is fanning the flames under a false flag. She would have been better served if she kept her mouth shout. It takes a pretty big ego to say people are irresponsible for calling her out on some of her own statements and visuals while doing the very thing she claims she is against.

Except, Salt Grass, that it did not.

Loughner became obsessed with the congresswoman in 2007- before anyone outside of Alaska had even heard of Palin.

This deliberate denial of the facts dooms the country to continued repeats of such tragedies. We MUST address the way we identify and treat the mentally disturbed in this country.

We will not, when so many are fixated on denying the truth, and exploiting this tragedy for political gain, which, by the way, is not resonating with the country, at least according to CBS- which found that 57% reject the notion that politics played a role in this.

SG: She could have at least commented that it is sad that political discourse could possibly lead to violent actions by a mentally derange individual.

Why? Only extreme and out of touch Leftwingers that are attempting to score cheap political points on the back of a tragedy believe that to be true.

I'm going to ask you again, no jo, because I do believe there is a reasonable soul in you somewhere. Can inflammatory language incite violence amongst those who are not emotionally healthy? And if your answer is yes, wouldn't a prudent person, from either side of the aisle limit their disagreements to substantive issues?

Why? Only extreme and out of touch Leftwingers that are attempting to score cheap political points on the back of a tragedy believe that to be true.

Really? So the Tea Party's not sending out fundraisers based on Arizona? That's a relief!

If you're going to go after "inflammatory language" across the political spectrum...when you're done with Fox News, aren't you going to have to shut Keith Olbermann and Ed Schultz down as well?

To his credit, no less a committed progressive than Jon Stewart has already had to call out Olbermann...

Anyone remember Olbermann's vicious, hateful attack on Scott Brown?

What did that contribute to the concept of civil discourse...?

The Left talks wants to blame the act of a deranged individual on something called "Political Rhetoric". So lets assume for a moment this concept of theirs is correct (even though it isn't). So what do you want to do about it Lefties? Politics does create tension and conflict, at least on a verbal level, so are you proposing that that conflict not be allowed? And stresses in politics are only some, and probably only a tiny percentage, of the stresses and conflict individuals experience each and every day. If political discourse can set of a mentally deranged individual, are you also saying that stress at home or at work can do the same?

And if this is all true (even though it isn't), again, what do you suggest. Stress free lives? So how exactly would you accomplish this utopia of a stress free world, a world without conflict?

What in fact is happening is Liberals want to construct the world based on the lowest common denominator, in this case, mentally ill people that may be violent. 99.999% of the people manage this stress without killing anyone. So now do the Libs want to change the way people interact based on the odd chance it might set someone off? That would be quite the goal.

So Liberals, how do you suggest we proceed?

Mixed Bag:

I kinda, sorta, agree. I don't watch Ed as I don't like to be yelled at. I seldom watch Keith as I would rather watch "American Pickers" or CSI. I'm surprised that you spend your time watching them.

For "fair and balanced" reporting, I find the BBC an acceptable alternative.

JoAnnaSmith1

From yesterdays FR:

*** Palin's silence:

Oddly, the total fascination by the Left of Sarah Palin continues.

So FR, are your questions ever answered? First you whine about her saying little. Now that she's waited an appropriate period of time to speak out, you're questioning how she should have communicated. It doesn't seem you have such questions about the real President of the United States. You never question his talking points, his format for communication. That seems to be reserved for Palin, and Palin only. Do you ever stop complaining?

Lady Jo

It's inappropriate at a time like this to be talking about "BLOOD" the same as those "bullseye"symbols WERE.

As usual your post is ALL SPIN FACTOR.

So Liberals, how do you suggest we proceed?

Make it illegal for the Jared Loughners of this country to own a gun.

I was wondering how long it would take before the CBS poll was brought up. About an hour. On CBS's website there are three polls. The one listed above and two others. One shows that 28% of the republicans and 11% of the Independents think violence is justified against the American Government.

Another poll when asked if they thought this was politically motivated, 47% of republicans said probably yes, 51% democrats answered in the affirmative along with 37% of the independents.

Thanks for bringing it up. The reports may be viewed on CBS Web Site for the details. Only 673 people were polled with a margin of error of 4 points either way.

Anyone remember Olbermann's vicious, hateful attack on Scott Brown?

If I'm not mistaken - Keith Olbermann is discontinuing his 'Worst Person in the World' segments!

So what are the hate merchants over on Fox scaling back on?

From what I've heard so far this week - not a DAMN thing!

If anything they've ratcheted it up a notch or two in their pathetic attempt at playing the victim!

The victims are the 6 dead and the wounded fighting for their very lives!!

NOT the paid professional instigators on the right like yourself and JS1!

Just curious, Feisty-

Why do you repeatedly infer that I'm being paid to post at First Read?

It strikes an odd note...particularly coming from someone concerned with the level of paranoia exhibited by those who have political views different from your own.

How, exactly, does your own paranoid delusion work?

I mean, how do you decide whether this or that First Read contributor is literally, not metaphorically, "making a living" here, without any empirical evidence...or really, any evidence at all?

Are there other "paid professional instigators" here (besides JoAnna and myself)...in your world?

Please...give us a better look at the dimensions of YOUR paranoia, Feisty.

Da Noid, good point.

Exactly how is this to be done? By all accounts, the only thing on Loughner's record was- nothing.

He had been arrested for a misdemeanor, but the charge was dismissed upon his completion of an intervention program.

The police were called, but no charges filed, on several occasions.

Had it been POSSIBLE for the school to have forced a mental health evaluation, it may or may not have done any good. Privacy rights would have precluded the dissemination of such an evaluation, and, absent an overt act of violence, he could not have been involuntarily committed.

This, it must be noted, was his FIRST act of violence.

So, how tom prevent him from obtaiing a gun? Well, maybe we start by re-examining the laws that so compassionately consign people to suffer with their mental diseases, nd adopt some new laws that deal with reality.

I asked you a question and you answered it with a question!

So much for dialogue!

Someone else out there willing to step up and tell us where Fox is scaling back? Anyone?

Appears Mixed Bag is incapable!

NOT the paid professional instigators on the right like yourself and JS1!

I can't imagine any of us would be having as much fun as we are now if we were being paid to post here.

I asked you a question and you answered it with a question!

In academic circles we call that "The Socratic Method," which, amazingly enough, served as the basis for most major works of philosophy well into the 19th century - works referred to as dialogues. Isn't history great?

Ron Indiana-

"I'm surprised that you spend your time watching them."

Really, Ron?

Why is that?

First Read has displayed hundreds and hundreds of posts related to the tragic shooting in Arizona, and post after post has lamented the level of discourse and lack of civility in the political arena.

If I'm going to offer a comment about that level of discourse, I find it useful to be at least somewhat familiar with those engaged in it. It's hardly inappropriate to mention Keith Olbermann or Ed Schultz here at First Read since this site is operated by their employer.

And really, with so many assaults on the style and content of Fox News posted here...I find it useful to add just a few lines about the style and content at MSNBC, and its role in the current level of civil political discourse.

If I never viewed what Olbermann and Schultz were serving up every day, I wouldn't be in a position to comment on their contributions to the ongoing discussion about the tone currently being set in political debate in this country.

It's that simple, Ron...that's why I watch them.

@ JoAnna ~ I for one am not fascinated with Sarah Palin. I am, however, fascinated by the right wing's fascination with her, and especially by yours. Can you all really be that gullible?

@ Bag Boy ~ #6.9 -- Nothing. You knew I would say that. #6.16 -- don't be so defensive. We all know you love being around us so much you would do this for free. Or at least I'm delusional enough to think so. I can't speak for Feisty. And neither can you.

@No Joe ~ I thought you conservatives didn't want "Nanny Government" poking around into every aspect of everyone's daily lives. But at times like this, when you're flailing around for ways not to blame your own beliefs and philosophies, it always comes down to "why didn't someone (read: the government) save me from myself"?

So, how tom prevent him from obtaiing a gun? Well, maybe we start by re-examining the laws that so compassionately consign people to suffer with their mental diseases, nd adopt some new laws that deal with reality.

Sounds suspiciously like "Nanny Government" to me.

@ Exodite ~

Isn't history great?

Not when it keeps repeating.

Not when it keeps repeating.

That, dear Anna, is a fault of the human condition - not the political right. We're hardly Nietzsche's ubermensch.

Anna Molly: First, I'm just so happy to respond to your post in under 28 minutes otherwise you would probably forget what you wrote.

I'm just commenting on how many articles are pumped out on this blog about Sarah Palin. I'm glad you're not fascinated by her, but the Left in general is, and certainly FR is. Just read the hate spewed out by the Liberals everytime a SP article appears. The Left is really upset and frightened by her.

Anna, there is nothing whatsoever in my beliefs or philosophy that justifies violence- and nothing in anything I have ever posted that justifies your stating that it does.

As to the nanny state- this, my friend, is exactly what is wrong with it.I never needed to be told by government to wear a seat belt- I had a father who did that, since he lost a friend to a car accident before I was born, as just one example.

The government spends lots of time, energy and money protecting us from ourselves- everything from then temperature of our showers to walking and chewing gum, it seems- yet consigns the mentally ill to lives of sleeping in cardboard boxes and eating out of dumpsters. . .

Or mass murder.

Why is that? Why are civil libertarians silent on congress dictating how many gallons of water our toilets can use, but eager to shut down the very institutions that keep the mentally ill in environments that keep them clean, warm, fed, and medicated?

Do you have an answer, or are you so insulted by the very question that you must make inane accusations about those who pose it?

Let's see if I can get the hang of this Feisty...

Exodite Dragon just has "paid professional instigator" written all over him.

And then there's dangerfield...

But, he's a lefty...or is he?

And if he is...could he be a "paid professional instigator" at a site like First Read?

How do you ever manage to sort it all out, Feisty?

If my recompense were pure, 100% grade-A lulz she'd actually have something to go on, MB.

Joanna - Domenico came on here just a week or so ago and personally guarenteed me this site, although a part of MSNBC, is not biased.

You think we was "inaccurate?" Naw.

Hope you got just a little lulz right here on this thread, E.D.

@No Joe #6.24 I didn't need anyone to tell me to wear a seatbelt, either. Or not to smoke. I believe in personal responsibility. But all too often, those who won't listen later ask why no one told them. If there was no law against murder, do you suppose people would self-regulate? Please.

As for cutting funding for mental health facilities, that was REAGAN'S government, No Joe, and it's Jan Brewer's government. That's the compassionate conservatism of the right wing, No Joe.

Better get used to it. Because your side thinks that tax breaks for the rich are more important than making sure that veterans and the mentally ill are taken care of. Lot of veterans are homeless, too, No Joe, thanks to your government's decisions.

Yours is also the government of gun proliferation, and cutting funds for law enforcement, and non-interference in people's lives, except, of course, if a woman dares to want to control her own reproductive decisions, or if the interference titillates you, like controlling what gays can do in their bedrooms. Yours is the world of right wing hate mongers like Rush Limbaugh and delusional pseudo-prophets like Glenn Beck. Yours is the world of hypocritical religious zealots and moralistic authoritarians who all too often do the opposite of what they say. Yours is the world of foam-at-the-mouth birthers. Yours is the world of Timothy McVeigh.

And you dare to ask me whether I have an answer? Don't make me laugh.

On second thought, go ahead. I could use a good laugh.

So if it comes to pass, that the shooter was politically motivated, then what does Sara say then. By not alluding to the possibility, she has left her self with no options to back track. She is not very politically wise.

Going to say this again for those of you interested. There was nothing about the large institutions that kept the mentally ill or developmentally disabled "safe, warm and medicated". They were hell holes, full of abuse, no training or education and no hope. There was no staff training of any consequence, and it was very likely that medications were being administered by staff who did not have high school educations or training in medication administration. It is also a very expensive service delivery model. What happened was, that when the institutions were shut down, the right, from Reagan on refused to adequately fund Community Service programs. You want to help, demand that mental health is giving parity with physical health in ALL insurance plans NOW, and Community Service programs...job training, transportation, living expenses, case management ALL services be adequately funded. In the county in Arizona that had this tragedy happen, they saw fit to drop a huge amount of those who need mental health services from their roles. They aren't getting treatment folks, and who is governor there?

Oodles of noodles, MB. Oodles.

Spanky

Joanna - Domenico came on here just a week or so ago and personally guarenteed me this site, although a part of MSNBC, is not biased.

You think we was "inaccurate?" Naw.

=======================

Everybody is biased. Some choose not to admit it.

@ JoAnna ~ Your 15 minutes on that one must be just about up, but if it makes you happy to keep repeating the same snark over and over again, feel free. As a resident of LiberalLand, I tend to be accommmodating, and I'm way too obtuse to be insulted anyway.

By the way, just to clarify, the difference was that my original comment put "collateral damage" in quotation marks.

How's that for post hoc rationalization? I'd say I'm just about as good at that as you are. ;-)

I could get into a tit for tat with you, AnnaMolly, but I find you tiresome.

For the record, I am on the record on this site, (and others), as being PRO equal rights- for everyone. That includes gays. If it did not, I would be unlikely to own a house in Key West, would I not?

If there were simplistic answers, such as outlawing guns, to these issues, life would be, well, simpler. There are no such simplistic answers, however, but much more complex ones.

For the record, it was not REAGAN's fault that the mentally disturbed were turned on to the streets, but the lawsuits brought by the civil libertarians, who, armed with court orders, secured the release of these individuals, then kindly, compassionately, left them to fend for themselves.

I am sure that their lives are much improved. . .

Exodite ~ I was thinking about the guns, not the political right. But you got the ubermensch thing quite right. Superior, we aren't.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, No Joe, but names will never hurt me. Particularly because I cultivate being called tiresome. It tells me that you're running out of substance. And so early in the game, too. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

But I do agree with you about one thing. Nothing could be more simplistic than ending gun crime by taking away guns. Absolutely brilliant. So brilliant that I wonder why I didn't think of it before.

On the mental health issue, I direct you to newdaydawning10's comment. Now I remember exactly what the compassionate Mr. Reagan's role was -- which, if it isn't the same thing as de-funding the institutions themselves, is certainly the next best thing -- best, from the viewpoint of the compassionate conservative, that is.

For all I know, or care, No Joe, you live in Key West because you like chickens and extra-toed cats. But even a Log Cabin republican suffers from some disconnect. And you certainly do, too.

NoJo

Why are civil libertarians silent on congress dictating how many gallons of water our toilets can use, but eager to shut down the very institutions that keep the mentally ill in environments that keep them clean, warm, fed, and medicated?

Come now much like with most issues you can't blame only one side. The fiscal conservatives were more than happy to release the mentally ill into the streets in the 80's to save the money.

Soon it will happen again. However, I join you in the hopes that as this recession continues that the states, governors and legistlators keep funding intact for services for these people. In my state, Texas the state legislation just came into order to appropriate funding for the next two years. As they try to square a 27 billion defict its been said that everything is on the table.

Last year Gov. Perry implemented an across the board 10% cut of all agencies. The Comptroller's, she is a Repub by the way, report has suggested that at least another 10% cut is in the planning stages. Another one of her great plans is to increase the number of children per classroom, estimated to clear out at least 14,000 teachers. The other day I got a letter from my son's school district talking about the coming cuts. They talk about two problems with a deficit a revenue and a spending problem. Funny they always seem to talk about the only solution being cuts.

The first thing that always seems to be on the chopping block is funding for social programs, cutting of medicaid etc. Why is that?

The laws, as they currently exist, protect the rights of people with mental illness from being forced to have evaluations, absent an overt act of violence.

This was Loughner's first such act.

The laws, as they currently exist, prevent a person over the "age of reason", (in my state, that is 16), from being involuntarily committed, even with the testimony of a board certified psychiatrist that the individual poses a threat of violence, absent an overt act of violence. This allowed a sixteen year old, in my own county, to rape and murder a nine year old, two days after a judge could not involuntarily commit him because he had not already committed an act of violence.

The laws, as they currently exist, protect the rights of the mentally ill to refuse to take medications that ameliorate their conditions. This renders them incapable of caring for themselves, and they often wind up living on the streets, eating from dumpsters.

The laws, as they currently exist, do not address the unforeseen consequences to the very people whose 'rights' they are meant to address, let alone the rights of society at large.

Those responsible for the wholesale release of those who cannot fend for themselves refuse to acknowledge that, while well intentioned, they have a role in the worsening conditions that arose as a result of their intervention.

I wonder how many are active in fundraising for and staffing of group homes for the mentally ill. I wonder how many of them take seriously the role they should now be playing in outreach to the populations of homeless victims of mental disease- helping them see the need to take their medications, so that they can get and keep shelter and employment.

I wonder, but I assume the number is near zero.

Texas budget short fall is just a little less than California. Perry may not raise taxes, but expect a whole new group of user fees and franchise fees.

NoJo - Thanks for your response, if you directed your post to me.

Treatement and understanding including safe buildings and conditons for the mentally ill is a high priority to me. Even now there is a stigma that treats mental illness different than a physical ailment, you can see this in people's beliefs and fears.

I agree staffing of group homes with competent caring individuals should be a priority. I give a lot of respect to these hard working underpaid and undervalued pubilc servants. In my case, I was too young in the 80's (teenager) so I'm not sure what those civil rights advocates are doing now. Currently I am working with a few community leaders to help put together plans to help raise funds for a group home/halfway house and a community garden at a state hospital. The pastor leading up these efforts has relayed to me his difficulty in getting funds because of the NIMBY attitude from neighborhood groups and city leaders.

The outreach that you speak of is not easy to come by. There was a big disagreement here in Dallas where homeless people were going to be integrated into an abandoned but still liveable downtown hotel. Although these people in my understanding would have been able to live independently, It fell apart because of the NIMBY opposition.

@Saltgrass

The legistlature has five months to put together their appropriations we will see. I'm not looking forward to much from Austin as their only response is to cut spending and not try to raise revenue. Perry has even streamlined the committees to push immigration/banning of sanctuary cities as a bigger priority than the budget problem.

Yellowdog, you are a good man. Doing, rather than talking and complaining.

In my county, we have an active ARC chapter, that has been successful in opening group homes for the develomentslly disabled, and finding them employment in local shops and supermarkets.

This has had a twofold benefit. First, for the disabled, who experience the joy of self sufficiency. Second, for the community at large, who might never know an individual with a developmental disability.

The first obstacle ARC had to face was the ignorance of the community- there were plenty of people who did not know the difference between developmentally disabled and mentally diseased. Once that had been addressed, their success has been phenomenal- to the degree that the board spends much of its time giving seminars around the country to help other ARC chapters achieve the same success.

As to group homes for the mentally ill, that is a whole different circumstance. How can anyone guarantee that no one ever placed there would be violent? One instance, and the home would be shut down. I really do not have a good answer on that one- although I know that, for some, it is the right type of placement. For others, it is an invitation to disaster.

Anyway, good for you for doing something. Wish there were more like you.

No Jo

Thanks for your kind words.

Before you think too highly of me, I am an architect for the State of Texas, my department deals with institutional state buildings. I only work with projects involving state buildings, state hospitals and state supported living centers. Yes a "dreaded state bureacrat" working for state government. Seriously though I love the job.

The ARC is a great organization. I'm not active but have heard of them. Its true not many know the difference between mentally disabled and mentally ill.

Despite the attacks that bombard you from some of the left ring leaders here, I think you are a good person. You just have differing opinions then me on a lot of things. Can I ask that while you are calling it as you see it with Obama, keep an open mind about him?

no jo: As usual, you are wrong: Reagan started the push back on communities. That was when the de-funding started. I am amused that you are holding the ARC out as heroes in this, often they were plaintiffs in the suits against the states to close or modify the institutions. But, of course, you wouldn't know that.

By the way, no jo, where did you come up with such a horrible term "mentally diseased?" Did you make that up all by yourself?

I suppose I did.

I have kidney disease. I have a friend with heart disease.

Now, there are others with diseased kidneys, whose diseases are different than mine- but, the disease is still of the kidney.

There are many kinds of heart disease, not all like my friend's- still, they share one thing: they have diseased hearts.

So, if the disease is of the mind, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc., I would, naturally, assume that it was called mental disease.

And, it bears no relation to developmental disability.

No jo, there can be mental illness in all populations, the institutions were not necessarily good in those days at sussing out who should be there, or if mental illness was actually present. Which is how these laws came to be in place.

Excellent post, Jody--it is sad that we have become, as you say, a nation of Hatfields and McCoys. More sad is that some of the people who keep the feud going in the media seem to be motivated by financial gain.

I have lost people that I love, thankfully never in circumstances like these, and I know that when you are grieving you are grateful for comfort and support when it is offered and I think that is what any President does---to make President Obama's attendance at the memorial service political is not fair. He is there representing all of us to support these people. Enough said.

Jody:

Very well said. This is not the time for us Americans to be turning our back on our responsibilities as a Nation. We have a big problem that is stopping us from moving forward and growing. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? It is a moot point of who or what is responsible. That will come out in due time as the scenario plays out. It has happened, I can not change it nor can anybody else. All we have left is to try and get together and make sure it does not happen again. Sure, we will always have these nuts running around until their is a 100% cure for mental illness assuming that is the only cause, which I do not think true, this will happen again. What we can do is stop giving them any sliver of justification to do violence. This is the only vaccine available and it is not 100%.

--God bless those people and particularly those bikers who are planning on disrupting those morons at the Westboro Church who are planning to picket the funeral of the little girl who died.

Good Morning Grimey!

You have to know by now how anti-violence I am... but... in the case of Fred Phelp's and the wackos that follow him... I hope those bikers are 'locked and loaded!'

Hey Feisty...

I am certainly not an advocate of that either...I'm just hoping that the site of a wall of bikers is enough to keep those people far enough away so as not to disrupt the funeral.

What the victims were doing is the epitome of the way our government should work. A duly elected representative listening to her constituents. And her constituents were willing to get out there and tell her what was on their minds. These people's lives should be CELEBRATED not protested!!

Good post, Frank. I have strong feelings about our Constitution and the First Amendment but those people who protest at funerals really frost me and I am glad that reasonable actions are being taken. Limitations on distance don't prevent them from exercising their right to speech and peaceful counter-demonstrations will show how decent people feel.

And I agree with you about the fund-raising from the tragedy----anyone who does it should be condemned.

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on Sarah Palin's statement.

Well said, Frank. Those bikers appeared in Iowa to block the Westboro church's hate-filled protest at a soldier's funeral; because of their wall, the family did not see the protest--they deserve applause for their efforts. I agree, using this tragedy for fundraising just adds to the problem. I like Bernie Sanders, he is passionate but on this, he is wrong just as the Tea Partiers are wrong.

Did anybody see the article about the wings of Angels?

January 11, 2011 01:00 PM

Tucson to Westboro Baptist Hate Church: Don't mess with us

By karoli

After the contemptible jerks at Westboro Baptist Church announced their plan to picket little Christina Taylor Green's funeral this week, Tucson residents came up with a plan to block them from view of people attending.

CNN:

They're planning an "angel action" -- with 8-by-10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants and used to shield mourners from pickets. The actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepherd, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming.

"We want to surround them, in a nonviolent way, to say that our community is united," Gilmer said. "We're a peaceful haven."

"You don't mess with Tucson," said Gilmer, 26, who described it as "a little dot of blue in a sea of red."

I do not understand how thesempeople have the right to bring their disgusting messages to private funerals.

Is it just me, or is there a difference between free speech and harassment?

Phelps is a very special kind of crazy.

NoJo,

On this, AND ONLY ON THIS, do we agree: If that joker Phelps and his group of Philistines dare to show up and disrupt that funeral, then I SINCERELY hope that they are chased out on a rail BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!!!

Aw, whatsa matter, was Obama mean to de poor wittle Justices? Did poor Woberts, Awito, Scawia and Thomas get wittle boo-boos on their poor wittle egos?

You know, JoAnna Smith, I feel sorry for you. You cannot see beyond blind hatred, and narrow-mindedness, how sad.

Seriously? You're going to try and make President Obama out to be a divisive politiican? The guy who appointed his chief rival Secretary of State? The one who responded to attacks on his association with Rev Wright with a speech about race, religion and getting beyond past conflicts? The guy who never responds to personal attacks or insults with anything close to self-pity or defensiveness? Oh, yeah, that's gonna fly.

SC Justice decision

If they do attend the State of the Union Address it will in effect tell the President and the Country that they believe their ruling was correct.

To not accept the invitation of the Speaker of the House is to say that the President may have been correct – that the court made a mistake.

To not attend in protest is childish.

If she said something like that it would be fictitious and have nothing to do with the facts at hand. But then again when did facts ever matter to the Progressive Left.

Steeler Fan;

I agree. She had a great opportunity to use her influence for good. She chooses to use it for political gain and fan the flames. We are a forgiving nation and we understand people makes mistakes. I have no problem with that. We all make mistakes say inappropriate things etc. In some respects it is part of learning and growing as an individual and a Nation. It is what we do after that that is important.

I agree with you Tom. I don't think this sort of thing will end until the Republicans are made very uncomfortable by getting asked questions about Palin and her ilk. Time to demand answers, media. Who amongst you will have that moment that Murrow did with McCarthy? The Founders were very clear as to why they put the protections on the Fourth Estate that they did. They wanted to be sure that there was a free flow of ideas that got to the citizens of this country. I posted an open letter to Rush Limbaugh and his supporters on the Palin thread. I am not going to repeat it, but I ask all reasonable people to boycott Limbaugh's sponsors. Money is the only thing this group understands. God bless the victims of this tragedy and their families. My candle is lit in solidarity and sorrow today.

Exactly Tom. Like that image shown by Harry Mitchell (D-AZ 5th district) from the 2006 campaign depicting his opponent in sniper crosshairs. It wasn't a district on a map, it was JD Hayworth in the crosshairs.

I would LOVE to see someone confront the right like McCarthy was confronted. But I dont have much hope that any media pundit will do it!!

CD: Mr. Mitchell should have been called out for that. Maybe now people will call out anyone who incites violence. Too bad it took some much time and lost of precious lives to bring this problem to the forefront.

But NewDay - all the "reasonable people" already do boycott Rush. Well, except Bev, who just can't get enough of FOX and apparently Rush.

Perhaps you should venture over to say, REDSTATE, HOT AIR, or ACE O' Spades and enlighten them on you opinion and the boycott. I'm sure it will be very well recieved.

I'll second that motion Houston!

The prognosis does sound excellent at this point! Already breathing on her own!

I LOVED the pic this morning of her husband by her bedside holding her hand - may they continue to find the strength to get through this horrific time!

Retired Air Force. I feel sorry for you, too; how sad to be consumed with blind hatred of anyone.

Jody: it is very sad that Retired Air Force is as bitter as he/she is.

Retired Air Force 1995

Beverly, do you have an alter to this excuse for a President? You are so sad. Personally, I wish he was never president and we will fix that in 2012.

Haha!!! you people can't even fix damage control on the half-wit half- governor after what she said about Blood libel.

Blood libel (also blood accusation^[1][2]) refers to a false accusation or claim^[3][4][5] that religious minorities, almost always Jews, murder children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

It just keeps on getting worst in Sarah's bizzaro head. Congress woman Giffords is Jewish!!!

Sorry, I don't have an alter. Your opinion is yours so you're entitled to differ.

BTW: you righties are in decline.

AP-GfK Poll: Democrats slightly improved their standing on most issues, most notably surpassing Republicans on handling the economy for the first time since June: 45 percent trust the Democrats to handle it, 40 percent the Republicans. Democrats also pulled even with Republicans on managing the federal budget deficit, and they expanded their advantage on handling health care.

http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=13827805

I'll bet when polling comes out again after this news cycle of the shootingss is over it'll be worse.

RAF-1995: I very seriously doubt you could do a better job as President.

I knew it! Bev does have a degree in English. So according to Ron she gets to keep on posting and gets a Brownie button.

Bev, I just wondering here, but were there additional definitions provided? Oh wait you "cited" Wikipedia. Never mind.

It does beg the question, does anyone here think Bev has an actual dictionary? Didn't think so.

Spanky: Oh wait you "cited" Wikipedia. Never mind.

Most of the Liberals "research" appears to come from Wikipedia, and You Tube.

Nash,

You had me up until the word "constructive". People on this blog calling for her to be arrested as an accessory to murder is not "constructive".

Well said, Nashville Fan. I wish your wise words would come to Sarah Palin's attention and that she would take them to heart.

Well done, Nashville.

Chef Darryl--no one from either side said Sarah Palin should be arrested, no one said she was to blame for what Loughner did but she is responsible for irresponsible words.

Nashville_fan

The way you have carried yourself since you were thrust onto the national stage has told us that you want to be percieved as a strong and powerful woman

Hi Nash nice plea; but Sarah blew it. I still have the utmost respect and appreciation for your kind remarks.

Instead of Sarah looking like a strong Mama Grizzly or a pit bull with lipstick the only animals Sarah represents now are scary mice.

Jodi,

I've seen it on first read on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. I don't disagree that she is responsible for her own words, but you also have to take a reasonable person approach.

Harry Mitchell (D-AZ) ran ads depicting JD Hayworth (R-AZ) in a sniper rifle crosshairs during the 2006 campaign. How about calling him out for being reckless as well?

Mitchell should have been called out on that. Is that the only example you can find to compare to a years worth of the same umAmerican rhetoric from the right??? It's isnt just Palin. The violent rhetoric and gun imagery is rampant on the right! It was an issue a year ago! Republicans saw it would stir up the people so they used it to win last November, to the everlasting shame of the voters! Botton line: this kind of balonEy from the extremists juSt isnt right NOR is it the American way!! SHAME!

BEEV? You want I should ship you a blowtorch????? :P

Gingerbread Mamma, great point. When I read that collateral damage comment, I was in disbelief that anyone could be so devoid of compassion and totally heartless, it sent chills through me as well.

I think some are paid to do it.

Jody;

They must be, why else the same old hate and misinformation, unless they will need the HCR in 2014.

I think some are paid to do it.

God forbid anyone have a difference of opinion, amirite?

Exo:

God forbid anyone have a difference of opinion, amirite?

Much of what is written by far right loonies here is so embarrassing, hateful, and nonsensical that might be a bit hard to believe anyone would write such drivel unless they were paid to do it. But sadly, there is no shortage of people who will cheerfully volunteer their time to make fools of themselves.

Houston, have you read the comments section on any of what gets posted elsewhere on Newsvine?

This is the Internet: the repository for every lunatic, half-formed brain-fart conceived of by mankind. The political right is hardly the only guilty party, here and that's been the FR analysis this entire week.

We're all to blame, myself included.

Exo:

The political right is hardly the only guilty party, here and that's been the FR analysis this entire week.

Of course that's true. And it's also true that a false equivalency is routinely made between the quantity and intensity of the wackiness of people on the left and those on the right. I read (and said) a lot of nasty things about George Bush when he was president, but I don't recall reading anything attacking him for speaking about the victims of 9/11 after that attack the way Obama is already being attacked on this blog for merely doing his duty and speaking at the memorial to the victims of the Tucson shootings, even before he's made his address.

No, no, that's a valid point. Nothing in my memory, either, serves to recall people outright attacking Bush for speaking in memorial of the 9/11 victims.

But bias on the behalf of personal experience is also, unfortunately, a logical fallacy in debate.

Pete;

You make a good point and you should write more.

Hard to believe sometimes isn't it? Well said, Houston.