Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld Tweeted this message today comparing Tucson's events and the mood around the JFK assassination:
"Joyce & I are praying for all those felled by evil in Tucson. We saw a similar rush to judgment w/o facts in Dallas in 1963."


Unbelieveable. Simply unbelieveable. Republicans may not have been to blame directly for the shooting of a Democratic congresswoman, from a district that is a hotbed of divisive politics, but they sure aren't doing much to show they can lead this nation in this hour of crisis. Except Leader Boehner, I'll give you that. He has risen to the task.
Yes, Speaker Boehner has done a good job and deserves credit for it.
I agree Amy and Jody---Speaker Boehner has acted like a leader and not a partisan. I wish more people on both sides of the aisle would follow his lead and the lead of President Obama.
And this is someone who knows a little something about rushing into things without the facts.
An A-men, to Jody and Mr Speaker..
TWO A-Men's to The Real Matt Hofman.
Zing!
So true.
LOL! The shocker for me is that someone actually follows him on Twitter to know that he tweeted that!
A thousand votes for Matt Hoffman. The sad part is that someone like Rumsfeld still gets a forum.
Since when is examining the possible reasons for why this happened, discussing the possibility that the ever-increasing toxic nature of public discourse has a negative impact on people in general, talking about the lack of controls that could help prevent these types of incidents a rush to judgement? There are many contributing factors in the case, all need to be discussed; I see nothing wrong with the public discussing it. That is not a rush to judgement, that is simply people searching for something to help make sense of this senseless slaughter.
What was Mr. Rumsfeld thinking when he tweeted that? Is that what was needed to be said by a public official?
Many contributing factors and they need to be discussed? That is not what I was told on this blog in 2009. I posted that the Fort Hood massacre may have been the result of Islamic hatred of the United States. I got an earful about that one. I was told by liberals on this site, that the Fort Hood massacre was the result of one lone madman. I had no right to suggest that Islamic hatred of the U.S. may have driven him over the edge.
How different things are now. Now it is apparently OK to deflect blame on to our political opponents. Let's blame Rush and Beck. Maybe we can get them to go off the air.
As of now, there is not one shred of evidence to suggest that the Tucson nutjob ever listened to Rush or watched Beck's show. Yet some here are quick to blame them for this horrible tragedy.
I am not defending Limbaugh or Beck. I don't care for either one of them. I also don't care for Olbermann or any other self-important windbag from either political extreme.
Deflecting blame from the shooter to a convenient political opponent is weak. Neither side should do it. It shows disrespect to the victims and their families.
He was thinking that we need to get the coverup started. Just like Dallas: You don't have the facts yet, and we're going to make sure that you never get the facts in your lifetime. Files closed until 2027.
Steeler Fan ~ He was thinking that the statute of limitations still hasn't run on his own war crimes.
way to say it mike in woodbridge!
Well said Mike. All the arm chair quarterbacking going on in the media and on these boards isn't the least bit productive. All it's done is further inflame the rhetoric at this point. We don't know the facts, we can't know what was going on in the shooters head and speculating only keeps feathers ruffled.
Amy,
What are they suppose to do? Jump up and cry out that no one should own a gun? The problem isn't the gun, it is the person behind the gun that is the problem. More restrictions, more laws are not going to stop those crazed individuals from attacking good honest people.
All anyone can do it pray for the survivors, offer our condolences to those who are no longer with us, and try to live our own lives to the fullest, because you never know when the next crazy is around the corner. But trying to take away our guns, restrict those who do the right thing, is wrong. Because you know as well as I do, the criminals will keep their guns, it is the law a bidding citizens that will be hurt in the long run.
And as for Rumsfeld--he was just saying that the mood was the same in '63 and probably the same when Reagan was shot. I don't think he meant anything derogatory about it.
^this
Bigbear, since I was so young in 1963, I have no clue what the political climate was at that time.
I was, however, old enough to know what was going on when Reagan was shot, and I do not remember hearing that the shooter was a left wing zealot, nor that he was influenced by the angry rhetoric of the left.
I do remember that he was found to have done it to impress Jodie Foster. No one blamed her. . .
Jody hadn't put crosshairs on Reagan's chest. If she had done so, a Sarah Palin essentially did, she would have gotten some of the blame for inciting a nutjob.
http://usactionnews.com/2011/01/democratic-leadership-council-had-target-map-in-2004/
Paul. you fail to accept the fact that the Democrats were using this type of imagrey in 2004. but we understand that you only think its wrong when a Republican does it. Above is from 2004 before Sarah Palin was even on the national Political scene. we understand that you will blame Republicans for anything you can. it doesnt matter whether its truth or not..
really paul, I seem to recall that the target was the district to be won, not the candidate to be shot.
LIAR Steve: Bullseyes and crosshairs are not the same thing. The dems use bullseyes to symbolize what they are aiming at, a target. The RepTEAbags use crosshairs to imply sniper rifle fire and violence.
Paul, a bulls eye and cross hairs imply the same - targets in sight. The little black box below the graphic of the US reads: "Behind Enemy Lines."
Candice: Please. Which would you prefer on your loved ones' forehead, bullseye or crosshair? One would indicate that they are a target, the other that they are marked for death and have a projectile coming their way at 3000ft/second.
Paul, I would prefer neither. The use of either symbol are exercises in poor judgement, in my opinion - mostly because politicians on both sides act like elections and governing are just a sport or a game. The cross hair is more intimidating, I'll agree with you on that, but the intent of the bulls eye is the same. I would also prefer if politicians would cease calling the other half of the country who are not aligned with their particular party: "The Enemy."
Neither wasn't the choice. Is this too difficult? If you place a target on my forehead, I can cover it with a bandana or a visor or a hat or a helmet. If you place crosshairs on my forehead, I am unlikely to know about it, or be able to defend myself from what is coming, much like Gabby Giffords or Judge Roll.
Only the deliberately obtuse would argue that they are the same thing.
Paul,
In the spirit of bipartisanship, can we agree that the use of symbols such as bulls eyes and cross hairs, and calling the opposition "the enemy" sends the wrong message?
The biggest difference I see between a bullseye and crosshairs is that no one went gunning for Republicans over a bullseye.
Kelly (TP) Giffords opponent in Arizona, Advocated violence from day one citing Sharon Angle's (TP) 2nd ammendment solution 100 times, Inviting his followers to join him in firing automatic weapons, and coming VERY close to ordering an armed response if he lost the election.
But,,,,,,,,,,We see no connection
It seems to me Republican politicians should fully understand, Considering how fast they drop to their knees for Insurance and Oil Corporations when told.
That's weird. I wrote about this very thing this morning on another thread. We do know more (I believe) about the shooter today than we did two, three days ago. I think that it is an important piece of information that the shooter knew Rep. Giffords and wasn't pleased with the way she responded to him in I think it was 2007.
I was talking to one of my brothers last week who I hadn't seen in a long time. And we got to talking about 9/11 and the JFK assassination. And no matter what evidence I gave him he wanted to know "where" the evidence came from. Um, from the scene. He's convinced there are huge cover-ups in the JFK assassination and 9/11. For starters.
He's a CT. And it's distressing trying to give him facts. He's not open to them. I see that a lot.
This doesn't mean I for one don't think the tone should change. It should. When did this country define itself by how much we hate each other? For those who are looking for a reason to shoot someone, we don't want to give it to them. Innocent people die. As we all know.
Conflict is a selling point. Do you imagine any of the more notorious pundits out there would be able to market as many books as they do were it not for the perpetual melodrama?
Pat: Listen to your brother.
I would be curious to hear what "facts' you have about the JFK assassination or 9/11. Were the FDRs recovered at "ground zero" or not? Why does the FDR from the Pentagon plane indicate that the plane was at too high to have hit the Pentagon?
Paul, it never fails. I try to tip toe around the JFK assassination, hoping not to have to fight this battle yet again. And there you always are, right behind me. Always.
LoL.
Exodite Dragon: It's amazing how many theories people can think up isn't it? But you're right. It sells.
Paul, I'm not going there. I've been debating the JFK death for upteen years. I don't know what people are looking for. You have the rifle, you have the name of the person who bought the rifle, you have the bullets, the casings, the fingerprints, the MIA employee. You have witnesses who heard the shots one floor below. You have a slain policeman who had stopped Oswald because he fit the description of the employee who left the Book Depository where the shooting occurred. And on and on and on.
Why tip-toe around it? It is the opening salvo in the "war" on the truth.
Pat, I have to ask: what is a CT?
no joe - CT = Conspiracy Theorist.
My brother sees conspiracies in everything. I don't believe he has read as much as he ought to on certain subjects, especially JFK/1963.
9/11 - we all know who did this and it wasn't our government.
You think that you know something. Yet you are unwilling to allow the CT's to prove that you are right and they are wrong. That makes no logical sense.
The supposed evidence you cite against Oswald would exist whether he was a patsy or the real shooter. Why is other evidence being hidden from the public until 2027?
Paul, in answer to your question on the JFK assassination and why do I tip toe around?
Answer: Hoping you won't see me. Now THAT makes no logical sense. LoL.
We'll get back to this another time - perhaps some weekend around 3 AM so as to not bog the site down when so many are here during the day.
You come to an article about JFK in 1963, bring up 9/11 yourself and then think that you can tip toe in cyberspace?
What difference does it make how many other people are on the web? If it's 3am here, it's 3pm somewhere else on the WORLD WIDE WEB. I asked you two very basic questions in comment #5.2 about the 9/11 coverup.
"At the scene." ? Your brother asked where your information and evidence came from. Your answer is a lie, unless you were the lead investigator on the scene. You take it on FAITH that the government wouldn't lie to you. We are not so naive.
Pat ~ what we don't have, among other things, is a clear understanding of why Jack Ruby felt compelled to kill Oswald, before Oswald could talk. Until someone answers that to my satisfaction, I will always have doubts about the acting alone theory.
Anna, why does anyone kill anyone? There are never satisfactory answers. Ruby himself said he screwed up by shooting Oswald. Ruby was next door from the jail that Sunday afternoon wiring money to one of his dancers for her rent. He decided to walk over to the jail to see what was going on. None of this was preplanned. Oswald by all accounts should have left the jail half an hour earlier than he did, but he wanted to change his shirt. So they were late leaving the jail. If Ruby planned on killing Oswald, he would not have stopped off beforehand to wire money. And he wouldn't have showed up half an hour later than the planned time for Oswald to be taken to another jail.
It just so happens Ruby was there being his usual nosy self. He walked down the ramp, saw Oswald with some sort of smirk on his face, took out his gun and shot him. Ruby left his dog in the car. Would he have brought his dog if he was planning on shooting Oswald? I doubt it.
Paul, what evidence do you wish to believe then? None? Some?
You tell me - who killed JFK? Who caused September 11th?
Ruby walking into the jail, where a Presidential assassin was being held, with a loaded gun on him, wasn't "pre-planned". That certainly makes perfect sense. Not.
Ruby was always hanging around the jail. He was very well known. He was club owner. He hung around with questionable people. He always carried a gun. He was there the day of the assassination as they were holding Oswald after he was caught, or it was Saturday, the following day - I forget which day it was. He was standing in the back, watching it all. But he shot Oswald on Sunday as he was being transferred to another building.
We all have heard the cover story, Pat. Why you would think that this quaint tale would explain how the authorities just kept dropping the ball in ways that would always help to hide the truth from the public is futher evidence of you naivete.
It was well known, you claim, that Ruby was always hanging around the jail, and that they knew that he always carried a gun. So while holding a Presidential assassination suspect, these Keystone cops never anticipated that RUBY, who was always hanging around with a gun on him, should be told to stay away from the building while Oswald was there. Please. More dereliction of duty going unpunished.
Paul, perhaps someday you can tell me what you have learned about the JFK assassination. I would be very interested in hearing it.
Keystone Cops certainly. No one should have been allowed to go near Oswald. On that we can agree. I don't know who saw Ruby enter that garage on that afternoon. I don't know if they were shocked to see him or if they didn't notice him at all. I honestly can't remember.
But the security was really bad. No question about it.
You continue to buy their cover story, and regurgitate it, hook-line-and-sinker. None of us like to admit that we have been fooled. They used, and continue to use, your sense of Patriotism against you, by telling you a story which you feel obligated to believe, and after enough time goes by they know that you will become emotionally invested in believing that you weren't fooled by the people you, mistakenly, gave the benefit of the doubt.
Believe no "evidence" or allegation until it has been cross-examined in a court of law.
Paul - better go get assange and wikileaks to explain it all to you. Life goes on!
Pat, thank you for showing us all patience in the face of CT's
So to your way of thinking, if you can call it that, the right of our government to hide its criminal activities from the public is justified. Nice philosophy. Move along, nothing to be seen here, pay no attention to man behind the curtain. It is the CTs who are being patient with the sheeple who embrace fairytales.
It was the Martians, its always been the martians who did it. You all know its true. The guvment is just covering up the truth. You'll see. Some day someone will find the secret files and we'll all know the truth. Then you'll all be sorry for not building yr shelters.
The secret files don't need to be found. We know where they are; they just need to be released to an investigative body with subpoena power. Who among us would logically attempt to claim that a request for that information is being unreasonable?
Investigative body like a FISA court ?
A Martian FISA court?
LOL... good one.
We do try to continue to have a sense of humor about this.
That's why trolling can be fun, once in a while. Amazing what happens when you write like a far right or far left wing-nut.
Rumsfeld tweets? Who would have thought that curmudgeon knew anything about new technology outside of bunker busting bombs? BTW Donnie old pal still working the evil angle? Quick call out the National Guard there's evil a foot.
"The problem isn't the gun, it is the person behind the gun" People drive drunk, even though its against the law, so that is why we regualte alchohol sales. Tobacco kills, that's why we have laws forbidding its sale to minors. Perverts prey on children, that's why we post their names and addresses on Sex Offender lists. There are solutions to problems, that help diminish the destruction caused by PEOPLE.
Sick people can buy powerful weapons designed not for hunting or protection, but to kill 30+ people in seconds. I say an attempt should be made to stop that from happening.
Amy - States already have regulations on the books for gun sales and carrying laws. Woukl you suggest a yearly testing of every gun owners mental state?
Wouldn't hurt.
BTW, Amy and American, have you been tested before receiving your FOID ?
So why is it the Patriot Act in its attempts to prevent terrorist attacks from happening is an invasion of privacy but accessing mental health records or demanding some form of testing of individuals wanting to legally purchase guns wouldn't be an invasion of privacy?
I don't disagree that it would be nice to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable but I also know that someone hell bent on getting a gun is going to do so whether it's legal or not. And had this numpty not gotten the gun, I am guessing there's a good chance he'd have built a pipe bomb (as I understand it, instructions are readily available on the internet and your average 15 year old has no problem locating them, don't think a 22 year old college student would have found it all too challenging either) or some other way of causing mass destruction and death. Twisted mind + twisted plan = result at any cost. Taking guns away from those who follow the rules solves nothing.
Zing indeed!
No s@#t Sherlock! Of course it is the same as 1963. The rights' dialogue is over the top and violent. Not just mean, not just dark but actually violent. Dialogue incited violence effectively for the right in 1963 and today. I'm sure many other times in between depending on what side was using the violent rhetoric for the same effect. But now as it was in in 1963, it is all the rights' fault for this violent episode. Trying to deny this young man was influenced by anti government dialogue is like trying to deny our Speakers' orange tan. Go ahead and call that mean. I'm not asking for anyone to "Lock 'n Load" against anyone.
He is referring, of course, to the immediate speculation that someone from the "right wing fringe" was responsible for killing the president. Watch some of the clips from the live coverage of November 22, 1963. It is clear that before LHO was identified and his back ground known, there was a rush to judgment to blame someone on the right.
And that judgement was correct, even though it was rushed. Allen Dulles went right-wingnut batsh!t crazy over the Bay of Pigs fiasco. He had tried to force JFK's hand on the air-cover and was rebuffed. For John Kennedy, the payback was a real b!tch. And then, of course, Dulles got to control the investigation of his own crime, by getting himself placed on the Warren whitwash Commission..
May still beleive that JFK was killed in a right wing conspiracy.
Rumsfeld comming out and tweeting this is like Clarence Thomas wife going after Anita Hill. What is up with threse people, and George Bush tristed him to prosocute a war?
Who woke Rummy up
Is that the best you could come up with - 1963????