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Subscribe to RSSIf one word summed up the past two years in American politics, it was this: anger.
Anger at the nation’s unemployment and all the foreclosures. Anger at President Obama and his health-care effort. Anger at the Tea Party.
And this anger sometimes manifested itself into over-the-top vitriolic rhetoric, especially coming from the right.
In the summer of 2009, we saw those rowdy, contentious town-hall meetings protesting the health legislation. We saw a few protestors carrying weapons and reciting Thomas Jefferson’s quote, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
During the campaign season, we saw a Tea Party candidate for Congress produce an advertisement with the message “gather your armies”; we heard Nevada GOP Senate candidate Sharron Angle talking about “2nd Amendment remedies”; and we saw former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) create a “target” list with bulls eyes around vulnerable Democrats who voted for the health-care bill.
And in Arizona, Republican Ben Quayle, who won his congressional contest, ran an advertisement calling Obama the worst president in U.S. history and vowing to “knock the hell” out of Congress.
Of course, not all the over-the-top rhetoric came from the right (liberal Congressman Alan Grayson, who lost his bid for re-election, described his GOP opponent as “Taliban Dan” in one TV ad), and some of it wasn’t new (there were plenty of angry protests directed at George W. Bush’s presidency, and political duels and canings are chapters in the nation's history).
But the recent accumulation of political anger -- in addition to all the attention it received -- created a potent powder keg that was ripe to explode, as it did yesterday in Arizona, when a man opened fire at Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ (D) event for constituents, killing six and wounding 14 others --including Giffords, who remains in critical condition.
"We need to do some soul searching," Pima County (AZ) Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, a Democrat, said yesterday. "It's the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business.”
Dupnik added, "People tend to pooh-pooh this business about the vitriol that inflames American public opinion by the people who make a living off of that. That may be free speech but it's not without consequences."
To be sure, it appears that the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, wasn’t a Tea Party protestor. A YouTube site that’s apparently his contains political rhetoric that’s far removed from either the political right or left. ("... I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People. Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen," the YouTube page says.)
And members from both political parties quickly -- and strongly -- condemned yesterday’s violence. "An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serves,” House Speaker John Boehner said on Sunday morning. “Such acts of violence have no place in our society.”
But the tragedy in Arizona raises this question: Does the political rhetoric from both sides now begin to change, at least in the short term?
Already, House Republicans -- who gained control of the chamber last week and who are committed to rolling back some of Obama’s legislative achievements -- have suspended all legislative activity for the coming week, including their vote to repeal the health-care law.
Or does the rhetoric worsen? As the New York Times’ Matt Bai writes, “The more pressing question, though, is where this all ends — whether we will begin to re-evaluate the piercing pitch of our political debate in the wake of Saturday’s shooting, or whether we are hurtling unstoppably into a frightening period more like the late 1960s.”
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Sadly, it was only a matter of time.. before the hateful rhetoric spilled blood...
What have we become as a country when a 9 year old girl is killed for attending an event to find out more how Government works?
Tears flowed this morning listening to that little angels mother! May her mother somehow find comfort from this senseless tragedy!
Until this kind of vitriol is denounced once and for all those who refuse to do so will remain part of the problem, not the solution!
That little girl was born on the day of a terrorist attack, and died yesterday in another. And none of the people responsible for setting the stage for it will every be made to answer for their words. Free speech is rarely free. The words these people spoke were paid for in blood by other, innocent people.
Nobody "set the stage" for anything. THis was a senseless, random act of psycho. The fact that anyone is attempting to twist into their POLITICAL narrative is absurd. THis guy was crazy.
And the Communist Manifesto is the opposite of the Tea Party. Your attempt to link simply fails. Now you can keep blaming others, whether it's Palin or Beck (and Daily Kos has also scrubbed his site of previous "targeting" references), or you can wait for the truth, which will come out. Do you remember what President Obama said after the Fort Hood shooting? Does that not apply here because you THINK this might fit your narrative?
What others have said is absolutely irrelevant. Or shall we "blame Clinton for the whole "war room" terminology? Everyone is responsible for their own actions. If Olbermann told you to jump off a bridge 1. would you? and if you did is that his or your fault?
The guy is crazy, let's stop with the political diatribe. This is a psychological issue.
Like I said muffintop - you're part of the problem!
Even when confronted with cold hard facts you continue to deny rather than denounce!
You see the conversation is going to take place whether you like it or not!
The genie is out of the bottle and all the backpeddling in the world is NOT going to stuff it back in!
All the spinning in the world ain't gonna change it!
What cold hard fact are you talking about? The shooter is responsible and you have jumped to the conclusion you want, based upon your affiliations.
But I am surprised you ignore what President Obama said about the Fort Hood shooter. YOu have obviously jump to conclusions. Time will show how that works out for you. I doubt it will be well.
You were told that your rhetoric would incite the crazy to do this, before it happened. Now that it has happened you want to absolve yourselves of responsibility by claiming that he is "crazy". We told you the "crazy" would act on your chosen terminology. We were right before and we are right now.
It is you psychopaths who have the psychological issues.
Paul - do you blame Al Gore and the Green movement for the Discovery Channel shooter?
Whose rhetoric? Do you really believe it is only one side? Ed Schultz condoned voter fraud. Do we now blame him for all voter fraud? Not the people who did the act, just the people who talked about it?
THis guy was an adult, and as such is responsible for his actions.
"And this anger sometimes manifested itself into over-the-top vitriolic rhetoric, especially coming from the right."
And, of course, there was no such anger from the left against Bush, right? No calls to 'impeach Bush', no calles to 'kill Bush', no calls to 'imprison Bush' and Cheney.
Offhand, I'd say that the extreme treatment of Obama by the 'Right' is about 10% of that by the 'Left' against Bush and Cheney.
I didn't hear anyone calling for Bush to be killed. I did hear Americans calling for his impeachment. I did hear liberals calling for the imprisonment of Dick Cheney who is an admitted war criminal.
I didn't see any liberals at rallies carrying guns. There were no anti Gifford rallies where people were encouraged to bring their guns. There were no liberal political ads suggesting second Amendment solutions. There were no failed Democratic candidates putting up hit lists with political opponents in the crosshairs.
It was the Tea Party who were nasty and violent at Health Care Town Halls, while at the same time liberals were organizing free health care clinics.
Once again, the right wing are in denial. Denial of their totally failed economic policies and now denail of the results of their bizzare and inappropriate rhetoric.
well said johndevine; i completely concur. i also find it disheartening, while the likes of keith obermann and others on the left look to themselves to see where am i culpable; the right and the tea partiers are saying, "we never ever meant for those to be crosshairs," don't retreat-reload and 2nd amendment remedies were just hyperbole not unlike what the left has done.
frankly, i blame this on john mccain for allowing his vice presidential candidate to enrage audiences, for their own political gain, with "palling around with terrorists." then those like dick armey sending out emails about how to act at town hall meetings, the nra encouraging members to attend political rallies wearing firearms.
we have had to endure two years of listening to the tea partiers railing against the loss of their freedoms. well yesterday a man with a gun absolutely took freedom away from a democratically and constitutionally elected people's representative, a federal court judge nominated by george herbert walker bush, an innocent 9 year old girl and others; while at the same time this man with a gun took some of all of our freedom away!
Most of the examples given by the right wingers on the page, came from ordinary citizens, not from elected officials or the media; however, most of the examples of hate mongering by the conservatives, came from the Limbaugh, Palin, Miller, Angle, Bachman, Fox News etc. types that have been poisoning this country for at least the last 15 years. You're gonna reap what you sow my friends and fellow countrymen. The German government does not allow, "Volksverhetzung". That means the media and public officials who espouse hate or bias against any group, will find themselves before a court of law. You see, they know what can happen when you let "patriots" with the name like Adolph get away with hate mongering in bad times. The next time you open your mouth, think about what you are saying.
I do blame the right wing. I blame them because they have talked the talk and now are walking the walk and can you believe it (yeah) that they deny it. Between Sarah and Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh and others, the line of civility in politics has been crossed. I wouldn't be blaming them if they had not crossed the line. Its just like your teacher using the F word makes it ok for the rest of the class to do it. The republican spokespeople continue to do it. It is a line that was crossed. Take aim, target them, second amendment rights. No I don't blame anyone just for having an opinon or for believing supportive facts say about global warming, and its not saying you want someone impeached (believe me that word popped up long before Bush). Tomorrow when Rush is on, I wonder if he will say he is sorry, that he aided and abetted the cause, and that he will no longer cross the line of inciting violence on the public free airways. My thought? I doubt it.
Feisty,
You of all posters should shut your mouth, you are one of the worst offenders of the hate spewing. How do you sleep at night? Lives were lost yesterday and you want to mark it as a political gain for your side. I know you are a coward because you only post on First Read articles where you have your select few commrades. If you truly believe what you spew why don't you comment on other vines? Have some respect for the Americans who lost there lives because of crazy man. You seriously need some class.
muffintop and others dont believe that words have consequences those that use words of hate and pander to the hatemongers in our society are just as guilty as the whacko that acts out on those words the inciters of hate and violence then blame society and pretend they had nothing to do with it
There is nothing classy about inciting violence against your political opponents and then denying that you had anything to do with it. Unless you think top-down pre-emptive class warfare is classy.
Wow Feisty take a look in that mirror! The amount of Vitriol and Angry Rhetoric spewed daily on this very First Read Blog by the Left is without parallel anywhere on the Web. You Feisty are by far one of the worst offenders. You can deny it all you want but it is right there on your News Vine home page for everyone to see. What a hypocrite!
I see how it goes in here. You say something about the Ignorant One (Fiesty) and your post gets deleted.
I said in the deleted post: I can't believe this BS. This incident is not even 24 hrs old and already the left is trying to link this to the right.
I also said Feisty is one of the main culprits of uncivil discourse and she needs to STFU sometime.
It's not use trying to reason or be reasonable with the righties. They just don't see the problem. To them the problem is anyone that doesn't march in tea party mob walk. Obama was so right...it's all about God Guns and gays. It's for that reason that it's no use trying to debate them. They don't debate they shout over anything a reasonable person has to say.
I have yet to hear of a liberal or progressive pulling a gun or even suggesting the use of violence against an elected official. Oh they will say we hated Bush...but no leftie ever put him, Cheney, or Rove in an ad with cross-hairs. No one ran ads or talked media trash, suggesting that they be taken out, and if such a thing was suggested or threatened that person or persons was taken care of as soon as the threat was made. These righties can't even admit wrong, let alone, police their own.
This is what I keep reading from all the libtards about this subject. Booo Hoooo the fault all lies with the right wing rhetoric. It reminds me of Queen B!tch Pelosi crying on national tv about living through the hateful rhetoric in the 60s. Get over it douchebaggers American citizens have the RIGHT to say anything they want due to the first amendment. If some nutjob flies off the handle and kills someone the only one to blame is the nutjob. Under douchebagger logic if I see someone do something stupid on tv and immulate them and get myself or someone else hurt or killed then the tv is to blame not me. While this is tragic this kind of crap happens and will continue to happen whether you like it or not. Personally it doesn't affect me in the least some people I don't know or care about died, so what. People die everyday for all kinds of reasons, and I simply don't care.
libsrballsack - I remain ever hopeful that you are not old enough to vote.
Dear Libsrballsack:
It hurts my fingers just to type your name.
May I quote you? Seriously, may I quote you? Answer: yes, actually I can and will quote you because this is a public forum.
The reason I say this is because:
Your post sums up better than anything we liberals or *libtards could possibly have written for a succinct paragraph which defines why---
You are wrong. And morally bankrupt. And hateful beyond all reason. And, yes, every post that confirms that is embodying Truth to Power speaking out loud. The blame is not equal, nor is it limited to one person or cause. The Radicalized (and mostly "Religious") Right Wing is responsible for this or any other deranged individual to act upon the violence it has made a career out of spewing through its toxic media and falsified paralell universe.
So, May I Quote You?
Quote away I am not ashamed of what I said in the least. I am not on the religious right so throw your stones at them all you want. I am full of hate for many people of all races and don't have to believe in your morality. If people want to villify me, it doesn't bother me. I am 33 years old and certainly adult enough to stand up for myself (as well as vote). I don't believe in your little politically correct world view. I say what I want when I want and nothing can stop it because as you said this is a public forum. It is ok for the left to spew hatred at anyone who doesn't agree with them but when the other side does it they cry foul. Go ahead and think badly of me if you want because I could really care less. I stand by my statements that this doesn't affect me in the least because none of the victims matter to me one bit. I also didn't care about 9-11 either as I know no one in New York, and the loss of life on that day also didn't affect me. Go ahead and cry me a river for the loss of human life just don't get all bent when I say I DON'T CARE. Am I condoning the action by saying I don't really care? The answer is no.
I suppose only the right have the right to spew hate. They can attack all they want , all the while condemning those who oppose them.
Fiesty, you need to start posting on other seeds. It is very upsetting that you choose to post only on First Read. They hate what you say, they just want to see it posted everywhere. LOL.
They all defend the 1st amendment, when it applies to them, but no other. Rather than condemn the hate, the use of guns to punish those with whom we disagree, we simply make excuses, attack and try to deflect.
"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.
ROY WILSON-336103
"Offhand, I'd say that the extreme treatment of Obama by the 'Right' is about 10% of that by the 'Left' against Bush and Cheney"
That is because the current president is 90% better than the last.
And legitimately elected we might add. And eight months into his first term, he didn't get 3000 American civilians killed through his negligence and dereliction of duty, like Bush did.
Has it? As *I* read the article, it rather specifically stated his views were NEITHER right nor left wing.
While I abhor the horrible hate-filled rhetoric (on both sides), I also think we are doing nothing positive toward helping the situation if we keep spreading speculation for which there is no proof.
When and IF there is proof that the shooter was following a political agenda propagated by EITHER side, then there needs to be accountability.
In the meantime -- how about we start on Newsvine? I challenge you all to present your opinions with civility and respect -- rather than name calling.
Tis a sad day when the life of an innocent young child (not to mention the lives of others, who were trying to make our Country a better place) are taken from us through acts of violence with people such as: Martin Luther King, J.F.Kennedy, R. Kennedy, Abe Lincoln, etc. All they wanted to do was to serve our Country in their own way, and to make the U.S. a better place. And then some wonder why more good people don't run for office. If it isn't for the lack of wealth holding them back from competing against those buying the office, then it is for the safety and peace of their own family that comes first before experiencing such violent public hatred. Long before the election, the Obamas (including the girls) were not spared the racial name calling, that was so often found in daily e-mails, public media, etc. Could it be that many are still extremely bigoted, and find it hard to accept a Black American male as their President???? Because it has been since his election that this extreme verbal violence has expanded to such out of control behavior from the politicians, media, and the Constituents. Would it be the same, too, with a woman as their leader? God Bless all of those involved with this shooting incident and may this sad event hopefully make us a more untied country in solving problems in spite of our many differing opinions. That especially includes Congress as well. And may God grant the Congress not to turn a blind eye to the Constituents plights, suffering, and loss of many jobs through a period of an unstable economic Recession brought about from corruption through no fault of their own. Those very people, whom this Recession has hurt the most, are the real hard working people and daily backbone of this nation. They just want to go back to work supporting their own families. Name calling them, "useless, lazy, welfare recipients" is just unnecessarily berating many of those innocent people, and not contributing with the assistance in placing them back to work. Nor is it right to ask that they accept lower than the minimum wage salary, which in itself does not provide for inflation, or for meeting the basic daily needs (to include health or its insurance and co-pay fees). For they too, have a dream to feel independent with a job, safe, fed, and sheltered. No one, esp. our returning Vets deserve to die in the streets for what they unfortunately do "not have", or for their different opinions. Those, "who have", can certainly make more effort into assisting these people with getting back on their feet to become independent once again. Because in the end, it is better for all economically, emotionally, and demonstrates pride in what we do as a Nation. It, also, helps to lower the social welfare through assisting the unemployed to find employment, provided the bigger businesses begin using their trillions of available cash on hand to hire new employees as-well-as not hiring the illegal aliens for cheap labor.
Oh, man. This reminds me why I should never read the comments on these posts. Seriously, liberalballsack? What is your beef, really? If you don't care about ANYONE, do you post here just to stir up the @!$%#? Spew your hatred, etc.- for what gain? Do you feel better now?
It is our responsibility as inhabitants of this planet to take care of our own. Immigrants, good people who lost their jobs to the recession- hard working people who need the help of those who, by some stroke of incredible fortune, have retained their jobs, health insurance and mortgages. Sure, this shooter was a lunatic- who found a cause- and sounds like immigration and racism were just a couple of the issues he focused on. Palin and Beck et al. have managed to find a following by blatantly playing into people's fear. Keep that fear and hatred at a fever pitch. No, one can't say it's their "fault" that one lunatic went off the deep end. But it is a pointed example of the sort of hatred that is being created by their like. SO much to say, and every time I have had a discourse with a right winger the attacks have become personal and vicious very quickly. No point in even trying. I believe in paying taxes, I believe that proper health care should be the right of every person in this country. We're all immigrants, unless you're Native American, frankly. And there should be enough to go around, really- don't worry that someone is taking what's "yours". Ugh. Selfish. I can't understand.
I must agree with disheartened. The pundits on the far right have amassed great fortunes by preaching the politics of fear and loathing to a particular demographic. In my discussions with conservative individuals before the 2010 election, I experienced deep levels of anger, hatred and distrust with Obama and the Democrats. The most incredible, if not suprising, aspect of these discussions was the absolute belief that the Democratic agenda is a dangerous conspiracy to subjugate the American people.
I heard the same accusations espoused by Limbaugh, Hannity et al., again and again. "They are all communist intent to take away our freedoms"." They are anti-christian and terrorist's sympathizers". "They are nazis". "He wasn't even born here"." Let's take our country back" etc. adnausium. Many of these people were completely convinced of these ideas; and they were so angered by the thought of it that you could not have a legitimate political debate with them.
As they were repeating these absurd allegations to me, I could sense the rage that they felt when discussing these ideas. Nothing I could say could convince them otherwise; they had already made up their minds because of the relentless, shrill vitriol coming from the far right. I could tell that, not only were they full of hate, but that they were starting to become very angry with me for expressing differing opinions. To claim that celebrity pundits using fear-mongering and angry speech is not responsible for the rise in hatred, and violence toward our fellow citizens, is not only ignorant beyond belief but also dangerous.
muffintop - you seem not to be able to accept the fact that what we all say and now write in blogs like this influence a great number of non-thinkers. Hatred breds hatred, our children / grand children play "killing" games every day on their psp's, ipods, PC's all the time, our society is having a hard time keeping things in perspective. Yes this person was deranged but it is hard to say it wasn't political when he attacked at a political event. I think all of us "adults" need to show some restraint and realize we do have the ability to influence those among us that have a hard time decifering facts on their own and that we have a responsibility to society as a whole to keep some general morals if place like "thou shall not kill". I don't know where the middle ground is but we are tilting towards a space will make us no better than the rest of the world. Freedom have a price and our freedom of speech / press is a right that has tremendous responsibilities that go along with it. I'm sure you have heard the pharse "think before you speak" well that is now "think before you speak / type".
We are all in this together and we need to figure a way to make the changes we all desire without having everything come across as angry, venom filled and confrontational.
the problem is everyone is using language that only about 10% of the population understands.........ie vitriol? Who can tell me what this means without looking it up? I mean really? the elections of 2010 are over, let's move on.
FR, when does your change in behavior begin? Mark, I'm disappointed that you have chosen to be judge and jury here about what happened. And, Mark, please post the 2004 DNC map with crosshairs on it.
"Anger at the nation’s unemployment and all the foreclosures. Anger at President Obama and his health-care effort. Anger at the Tea Party.'
Why did they leave out the "Stimulus", out of control government spending, the refusal to secure our borders, Obama's broken promises, the constant selling of a "recovery" that doesn't exist, etc...? The past 2 years are filled with reasons to be angry that is why 2/3 of Americans feel the country is on the wrong track and congress' approval rating is abysmal. Being angry is the norm under this administration, this individual's problems were far more than simply anger however. You would think that Americans would understand how ineffective and intrusive government instills anger in those who are governed.... what do you think lead to our independence from Great Britain?
- Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska
- Sharron Angle, former member of the Nevada State Assembly
- Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party activist
- Currently serving United States Congresswoman from Minnesota Michele Bachmann, leader of the Tea Party Caucus, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson
- Currently serving Congresswoman from Arizona Gabrielle Giffords
"I'm a left wing hack that has no idea what the real truth is, but espouses biased opinions based on hearsay and circumstantial evidence"
- Toasty McGrath, current idiot blogger
And yet this "left wing hack", as you call him ceo, posted actual quotes by conservatives. Name the non-republican politician that urged their supports to reload, or who called for 2nd amendment remedies. Yeah, that's what thought.
Thank you Toasty. Language has consequences.
Really Indy? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............Not even 3 months ago MSNBC called for violence and a revolution. There's BS on both sides. It's sad that you people on here can't see that, you only see one side.
"On Dylan Ratigan’s show, liberal cartoonist Ted Rall, author of the “Anti-American Manifesto”, suggests violence may be the only way to save America.
Ratigan himself asks “Are things in our country so bad, that it may be time for a revolution? The answer obviously is ‘yes’ ,the only question is ‘how to do it?”"
There's even a video..................
FAIL Paul Florida: The challenge was to find a POLITICIAN on the left who is calling for "reloading".
Fail? This from a person that thinks our Government was involved in the 9/11 attacks? LOL OK. So in your one sided mind, you think this shooter yesterday has something to do with what Palin posted? His this what you're saying? So you're the only one in the United States knows that Palin's website set him off and told him to shoot the Congresswoman?
As for the reloading, nope haven't heard a politician on the Left say that. I've heard MSNBC calling for violence and a revolution.
Fail again. Why do you feel it is necessary to mistate someone's opinion or position in order to be able to argue against it? Pathetic, really.
A cartoonist ? ! ? ! ? Really, that's all you got? Didn't they say they didn't know how to go about the revolution?
Paul-Florida,
My challenge was to name folks who run for public office. I feel they should have a higher standard if they wish to represent the American people. I'm funny that way.
LOL, mistate..................so MSNBC can "mistate" someone's opinion and people on the Right are what? This is what I was pointing out. Again, you only understand one side, the Left side. You didn't learn that in November and you don't understand it now. You know Paul you're in same catagory as the "Birthers", the only thing different is that you're an extremist on the Left and the Birther's are on the Right. All in all you're both the same.
"Why do you feel it is necessary to mistate someone's opinion or position in order to be able to argue against it? Pathetic, really."
Indy,
Grayson comes to mind.
ceo,
"I'm a left wing hack that has no idea what the real truth is, but espouses biased opinions based on hearsay and circumstantial evidence"
Would you care to tell us what your idea of truth is if Toasty is such a liar?
The GOP has been co-opted by evil. That evil lurks in the minds of Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Bachmann, et al. I truly believe the Tea Party and the GOP have reached their high water mark. Within the next ten years, red states will turn blue.
The Tea Party is the new American Taliban. They make me sick! They are co-conspirators in the senseless murder of six individuals including a federal judge and nine year old child. Sarah, Michelle, Rush, Glenn, and Sean I don't need to tell you to "go to Hell" becuase that is where you will end up. You are very bad people.
Misstated again. FAIL. Truthers are only demanding that the mass murder of 2977 Americans be respected with a full subpoena empowered investigation which is willing to answer our questions. You would disown Cheney and Bush as republicans if the investigations proved what we suspect. 9/11 isn't a right/left thing, its about freedom and justice.
Birthers won't even accept the testimony of a REPUBLICAN Governor of the state of Obama's birth. They can't explain how the "conspiracy" to allow baby Obama was created in order to allow him to become President 47 years later, or how all the opposition researchers failed to pin the story down.
And what do they get for their trouble? Joe BIDEN as President is the only upside to their cause! If they win, nothing significant changes, for the better for them or the world.
June 2008 while in Philadelphia, PA during campaign stop....
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”
June 2006 at Queen's College commencement ceremony honoring Chuck Schumer, State Comptroller Alan Hevesi
"We really feel bad for poor Chuck, the U.S. Senator, the man who, uh, uh, how do I phrase this diplomatically, who will put a bullet between the president's eyes if he could get away with it. The toughest senator, the best representative. A great, great member of the Congress of the United States.''
July 2007 in Dallas, TX Nobel Peace Price winner Elizabeth Jaggers made this plea for peace...
"I would much rather see George W. Bush with a bullet between his eyes than have another September eleventh or Iraq War. Anyone who is opposed to senseless killing canNOT justify support of Bush."
People who knew him described him as philosophical, a person who read a lot of books. On his YouTube page, Loughner listed among his favorite books "The Communist Manifesto," "Siddhartha," "The Old Man And The Sea," "Gulliver's Travels," "Mein Kampf," "The Republic" and "Meno."
One former high school friend Tweeted about knowing the accused gunman: "He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag," she wrote. "I haven't seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical."
I've noticed that liberals do the most damage politically. Ayers bombed police departments and people's homes (this is a friend of Obama's by the way), you have Grayson spewing hate and lies about why the republicans did not agree with Obamacare. You had Pelosi calling the tea party "nazis" and hate directed towards members of the republican party by our own president during the campaign season.
Granted, republicans have as many fringe crazies as the left, but I don't see as much hatred as I see coming from the left. I skimmed past MSNBC and Oberman was on and I saw him trying to persuede his guest into saying it was the republican party who was responsible. Obviously he didn't watch the interview with the shooter's friend who said the above about him being VERY LIBERAL.
The hate does need to stop from both parties and those who try to inflame the public with their vitriol talk, i.e. Ed Schultz, Keith Oberman, Alan Grayson, etc...need to tone it down. Hannity and Palin do need to stop inflaming the public also with the terms they use, although I don't see the hate when they are talking as I do in Schultz and Oberman.
REPOST - Courtesy of the Collapse Cowards:
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
Sadly, it was only a matter of time.. before the hateful rhetoric spilled blood...
What have we become as a country when a 9 year old girl is killed for attending an event to find out more how Government works?
Tears flowed this morning listening to that little angels mother! May her mother somehow find comfort from this senseless tragedy!
Until this kind of vitriol is denounced once and for all those who refuse to do so will remain part of the problem, not the solution!
This site has very poor web service, as-well-as extremely slow responding. It doesn't seem to conveniently easy to allow for corrections or changes within the allowable time once posted. Another thing, every time I made a comment, it continually disappeared after an hour or so (regardless of the amount of traffic) for no apparent reason. It is either unfairly selective or else site defective (more likely the second). As a result, it is not worth any effort, attempt, and the time to make a comment.
NOTHING! Not 1 damn thing positive will come of this. Sound bite mental masturbator'swill continue to spew their vile on the radio and television while the rest of America either hugs a tree or makes love to their guns! The only political exercise most American's will get is changing channels with spittle on their chin looking for some mouthpiece that will spew the crap that they claim is thier own political heart!
The saddest part of all, politicians will become even more unreachable by the masses and isolated from the voters. Security will go completely overboard and the only people that will be able to approach our elected officials will be the cash laden Lobbyists and PAC's who have the security clearance.
Palin wrote a book entitled "Going Rogue." Has anyone looked up the definition of Rogue??? I know that I would not want to be thought of as a Rogue.
Regardless which side said what, it's bad that either side has to resort to negative politics. An old truth in math: Two negatives do not make a positive. What is really sad, I can remember Richard Nixon's negative ads against JFK, and vice versa. Americans swore off negative politics then and again when Johnson ran against Goldwater, Nixon v Humphries, ad nauseum. Problem is, the voter's believe the candidate they decided to support first and the remaining citizens gripe about negative campaigns.
CEO, nice call on Toasty! That is why you are the CEO! The redhead commonly referred to as "old spice", must like the horse races because she is always the first one out of the gate. She says she worked real hard to get Obama elected. I wonder if she is referring to the amount of time she spent on line in 08? We all know how heartfelt and meaningful our posts are. We are all one step a way from scratching this crap into the side of a truck stop bathroom stall so that everyone else who takes a dump behind us can apprreciate our keen insight, wit, and overall charm.
Hey Judee, Rogue! lol.
Independent, I know what you mean about the site being haywire. Look how many feisty posts it yields! That collapse thing really does have an affect on her!
Yes, it is horrible.
It was so much more polite in 2000-2008. All sorts of insightful discussions like "Bush lied, babies died"
There is a difference, it's called truth. Bush did lie and babies did die!
The more you talk, RRRRWW's, the more you sink your ship. Bail all you want, the fact is, that--there is a moral landscape and a thing called ethics, and a wonderful thing called human intelligence. And, we're sorry, but you are on the losing end of that one. As incomprehensible as it is to the rest of us, you not only willfully abdicate all of it, you throw yourselves into its opposite.
It is the RRRRRWW's Rh that has ratcheted up the intolerance, bigotry, violence and general extremism.
You know it. We know it.
And we're done with it.
You're done with it? So what are you gonna do about it? Sounds like you are trying to incite violence with your rhetoric.
libsrballsack:
Ahhhhh, but we've learned from people like you that words don't have consequences, so guess we can "lock and load", "take our country back" put cross hairs on your family on the net, call for 2nd Amendment "remedies", and blame a crazy person when words really do have consequences, huh? Walk in those shoes for the sake of those families in Arizona...just for a minute, will ya?
Very well said, Feisty.
No Sofie,
Nothing Feisty says is said well. She is the Queen of hate.
No Edward, the very first comment she made on this blog was well said. There was no finger pointing to any one person or party in that comment, it is the truth and should be worn by both sides. As I see by her later comments, she is in the opposing party to the one I was raised on and still am, but I still think her original comment was well said. Your remark serves no purpose.
Sofie - All I can say is... Thank You!
Sofie,
If you want a true and accurate picture into Feisty, just click on her handle and read all the garbage she spouts day in and day out. You will see what I mean real quick.
Edward is exactly right.
People like Feisty constantly come here to spout the "standards" they have set for everyone and then REFUSE TO APPLY THOSE STANDARD TO THEMSELVES all the while spouting more vitriol and ignoring the very damage their rhetoric causes.
Then she comes here day after day after day after day, hour after hour after hour and encourages other liberal posters to follow her lead. People like her are the reason this tragedy has happened.
Hope she sleeps well at night knowing that.
Feisty, I really wish that was all you could say but alas, it is not!
Feisty,
Seems like you have a quite a following. Slimsignet seem to have an obsession. He is a little confused, but hey, you attract all types. Sorry.
Isn't it cute Fletch?
All my adoring feisty fan club wannabees!
I must be doing something right! ;o)
.
The difference is that liberals call for investigations and prosecutions; tea partiers and Republicans call for executions, lynchings, "silencings", disappearances, torturings, throwing away the keys, assassinations, waterboardings, etc.
You nailed it Paul. There actually is a huge difference in the rhetoric of both sides. Even at their most heated, the left tends to call for justice; the right calls for only mindless violence. Well, except for that idiot yesterday "DemocratsMustFightBack". But he was called out quickly by several folks on the left.
The Left called for and showed movies of the assassination of President Bush among other such things. You did not mention that. How come? I condemn the murders and the pain caused to Congresswoman Gifford and my sympathy to her family. I know how they feel. This was a massacre by an abnormal figure from the dregs of society, the scum of the earth.
The woman's name is GIFFORDS.
You don't care enough to get her name right, let alone your "facts".
Bush death threats how quickly the Democrats forget...
see http://monroerising.com/2009/09/10/bush-death-threats-how-quickly-the-democrats-forget/
AC Robertson, yes President Bush got death threats. President Obama gets off the charts death threats. Bill O'Reilly receives death threats. Keith Olbermann receives death threats. And just about every politician out there receives death threats.
When I first started posting in 2006, I went after Bill O'Reilly. But when I found that he received death threats, I for the most part stopped criticizing him so much. I don't agree with Mr. O'Reilly politically, but it saddens me that he receives death traps. It saddens me that anyone receives them.
Something is terribly wrong in our society.
WHO is making the threats.................."a liberal" , "a conservative"............totally unimportant: It is only important when a threat, or veiled threat, comes from a known politician, or from the media. Now, I challenge the right wingers on this page to list Democrats or Left wing media people, (I want names and quotes please or it doesn't count), who espoused violent acts be committed against Republican politicians. I don't need to list any from the Right because several people already have: but I have not read the NAME of one left winger yet, not one.
The problem is the rhetoric on the free airways as well as cable shows by republicans and/or spokespersons of the republican/conservative party. Its not threats by constituents or crazys. It is what is spoken to people at rallies, on so called News shows, and on free hate radio. I have heard MSNBC calling on the republicans to end the rhetoric but they think it is part of their freedom of speech. Right. Probably not what the authors of the constitution meant though.
Free speech and amplified mass media speech are not, and should not be considered as such, the same thing.
You are not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater without repercussions, unless there is an actual fire, for public safety reasons. The same idea should apply to mass media speech. The AMPLIFICATION is the injurious factor to be considered.
AC,
That link you gave is exactly what the problem is. Did you look at the picture used to represent the President of the United States? That writer and anyone who supports that degree of disrespect for the President should be ashamed.
All,
It is a felony to vocally threaten someone's life. Freedom of spreech does not pertain to "I will kill you". Why, then, is it not a crime to select someone as a target and send that over the electronic airways for any "crazy" to pick as his mission? I am not saying that I know what this man's intentions were. I am saying that it doesn't matter. Mapping out targets of politicians and inciting acts of violence should be illegal, period.
Also, being crazy/insane is not a defense for murder. It is a prerequisite.
Here are a few quotes from Obama:
** Obama: "They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun"
** Obama to His Followers: "Get in Their Faces!"
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!"
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard"
** Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick."
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean "hand to hand combat"
** Obama to lib supporters: "It's time to Fight for it."
** Obama to Latino supporters: "Punish your enemies."
** Obama to democrats: "I'm itching for a fight."
Of course we do not want to forget Obama calling the Cambridge POLICE - stupid.
"ACTED stupidly" is not the same thing as pronouncing someone as stupid. Learn English.
At least we should post in context, it's funny that when we do that it looses the punch:.....I wish we would use whole sentences rather than a few words out of a paragraph.
AC, Here are the real quotes!!!!...Try honesty.
** Obama: "They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun"“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama told the audience. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.
** Obama to His Followers: "Get in Their Faces!"“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!".......I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry,” Mr. Obama said, his voice reaching a peak seven days after learning of the bonuses given to employees of the American International Group. “What I want to do, though, is channel our anger in a constructive way.”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard".....And they screened TV ads and reviewed the various campaigns by critics of the Democratic plan. If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard, Messina(not Obama) said, according to an official who attended the meeting.
** Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick."....NBC's Matt Lauer asked Obama about the criticism that he should spend more time in the Gulf instead of with experts and "kick some butt."...Obama told NBC his deliberations have been more than academic......."I don't sit around talking to experts because this is a college seminar," Obama continued. "We talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose ass to kick."
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean "hand to hand combat"...........A Republican majority in Congress would mean “hand-to-hand combat” on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy, President Obama warned Wednesday…"They are fired up. They are mobilized. They see an opportunity to take back the House, maybe take back the Senate," he said. "If they're successful in doing that, they've already said they're going to go back to the same policies that were in place during the Bush administration. That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here on Capitol Hill."
Obama to lib supporters: "It's time to Fight for it." ...."When it comes to taking a punch, I don't know whether you're Muhammad Ali or Floyd Patterson," Axelrod wrote to Obama in a November 2006 memo reported in a new book that reprises the campaign by Washington Post political reporter Dan Balz and former Post writer Haynes Johnson. Now Obama supporters are wondering about their man. If they're to see what he's made of, Obama has to first get in the ring. Forget the niceties, it's time to fight.
Obama to Latino supporters: "Punish your enemies."..“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”
** Obama to democrats: "I'm itching for a fight."As fellow Democrats accuse him of caving in to Republicans on the tax cut deal, President Obama is repeatedly promising them that he will fight the GOP aggressively when it takes over the U.S. House and adds senators next month. "I will be happy to see the Republicans test whether or not I'm itching for a fight on a whole range of issues," Obama said last week. "I suspect they will find I am. And I think the American people will be on my side on a whole bunch of these fights."
Of course we do not want to forget Obama calling the Cambridge POLICE - stupid.
My understanding is, at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words. But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.
Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that.
But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry; No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, No. 3, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately.
I am willing to play again, anytime!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Fletch, that's just great. Context matters, doesn't it?
So you can copy and paste a BOOK.
Still the bottom line, Obama said these things that would result in only ESCALATING the situation.
The bottom line, is greater understanding, not bumper sticker thought processes. Unless you are racing to the bottom and embracing stupid and ignorant as your standards for behavior, fletch's willingness to provide context to the "talking points" which your lazy mind was provided by Roger Ailes, to be regurgitated without contemplation or investigation like a parrot who wants his cracker, then as a human you should stop allowing yourself to be used as an automaton by people who don't actually give a rats ass about your simple ass, you who support their agenda, or us, we who are smart enough not to.
Funny thing about you people is you never admit that you're wrong. You are shown - without doubt - that you intentionally lied and mis-represented facts but no nothing to admit to it except comment on the length of his post.
People like you are why people like that wacko get encouragement.
Language has consequences. Talk of second amendment remedies, impending societal collapse, enemies of America, books telling people that ever form of despotism is rooted in Liberalism, planting political operatives in public meetings to shout down opposing viewpoints...all of this has consequences. Loughner is a crazy, but he's espoused things he's heard in the mainstream.
Language has consequences. Yeah, the First Amendment protects your right to say anything. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Is Jodie Foster responsible for the assassination attempt by Hinkley? The shooter is responsible, and his views - Communist manifesto appear to be more aligned with Liberalism than conservatism.
What will you all say when the guy is shown to have not affiliation with anything political?
muffintop: We don't know. I did read this morning that he had met Rep. Giffords and that he thought she was unintelligent or some word like that. What this mean I don't know. But from what the police and investigators are saying, she was the shooter's target.
No motive has been unearthed as yet. The last I heard he hasn't talked.
Jodie Foster never put a crosshair on Reagan and sent that image to Hinckley. Dumbass.
That's right, nobody really knows anything about his motive. Yet here we are ascribing political intent and blaming politicians and entertainers. Remember Palin, Limbaugh, Beck hold no office and are nothing but entertainers.
This is really a lot like the fervor over rap music - it continually extolls murder, rape, you name it. Is it to blame for all the ills in society? No. Should it be censored? Of course not. Yet here (and yes I know this is an MSNBC site) so many people are talking about censorship and holding Palin, et. al. "responsible." That is simply ridiculous, and is evidence of their true ignorance of the law, but more troubling, of their failure to appreciate personal responsibility.
Stop jumping to conclusions. It rarely works out well and you usually end up looking silly.
No rapper has ever painted crosshairs on Tony Bennett.
Democrat Protest Flashback: “Death To Extremist Christian Terrorist Pig-Bush”
reference - http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2009/08/democrat-protest-flashback-death-to-extremist-christian-terrorist-pig-bush/ & http://www.bloggernews.net/18716 & http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100330092615AAYLtxc
I didn't say anyone should be censored. I said language has consequences. Consequences that Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Jesse Kelly and others are unwilling to face.
Thank you for making my point. Foster did not do anything, yet Hinkley, a psycho tried to kill the president.
Psycho do what they do because they have lost touch with reality. It's that simple, yet you continue to try to link his acts to an assumed political cause.
My goodness, what will you be saying when he tells us he did because the voices inside his head told him to?
Muffin......Those you list as entertainers are most certainly not.....they are known as rabblerousers, they incite people to hate those they may have at first disagreed with, but as these loudmouths spew their hate sometimes in sugary syrup tones, or with tears, they appeal to those who want to let the words become their beliefs.
Do not attempt to defend their words or their actions, to do so is just being disingenuous. There are many unbalanced people who hearing what these yahoos say are emboldened to act. Not to acknowledged that possibility is the height of irresponsiblity.
You're OK with hate speech, muffin, we get that. There's nothing else to be said.
Language does have consequences, and the young are vunerable to suggestion. Two dead on facts. This loopy kid got his ideas from somewhere. It kind of makes you wonder about his early childhood invironment, and background learning developed. In the home to be reinforced by wrong headed media and like minded peer influence? The classroon books coming out of certain school districts currently are enough to make most of us very afraid of what the future generation will bring to the American culture.....
Yes when the conservatives spew fear and dispair, they really mean fear of ourselves.
Muffin,
It seems this man does not even need a lawyer, you have his back so well, as well as the backs of all the proponents of killing and the use of guns when elections does not turn out the way you like.
What will you all say when the guy is shown to have not affiliation with anything political?....I would say it was very strange since he went after a POLITICIAN.
You are quick to say this man is crazy, yet he is smart enough to exercise his right to remain silent. He is also smart enough, to make sure that he would come across as crazy, if you read his my space pages.
Palin put crosshairs on 20 congressmen and listed their names. That's called a 'hit list'. Only 2 of these Reps were still active, the other 18 were voted out, or retired. As soon as Ms. Giffords was shot, the posting was taken down. The only Rep left is one in WV.( I suppose he needs secret service protection.)
You are so busy with the defense you have made a complete fool of yourself. Hinkley was trying to impress Ms. Foster, who did absolutely nothing to encourage his behavior. You also believe that Bush had nothing to do with the problems that faced Obama in 2009, everything went to pot as soon as he was voted in. Denial, denial while blaming everyone else. Since Regan, who was a republican, was shot, it is now open season democrats. No one should take responsibility for their words or actions, especially the politicians we like.
During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
And I suppose Muffin will jump to Mr. Kellys defense?
Muffintop(s)
This argument that it is this "crazy person's" fault and no other is just fatuous and wrong, and part of the circuitous thought you RRRRWW's substitute for reasoning.
We know your code now.
I've been concerned about the rhetoric for quite a while now. Guns, violence, hate, birth certificates, targets, taking our government down, death panels, illegal immigrants are the cause of all our problems, revolution, Tiller the Killer, etc. - how does this talk affect people who are hearing this on a daily basis? People who are strangers to us. People who aren't quite there. They actually believe this stuff. We don't very often hear about people wanting to work with others. This is now considered a sign of weakness. You are labeled a sell-out and you need to be removed. This is what we hear. We don't know how this kind of stuff is registering with people. And yes, Alan Grayson goes too damn far.
If you want to go into politics or have a radio or tv show, stick to the issues. Don't make things up. Don't get so down in the mud with these personal Taliban type crap. This is America for goodness sakes. People want to now get down to the same level as those who use this kind of talk. They think this is how you win. Play on their turf as if that's a winning strategy. It's not. People should be treated with dignity. And behave with dignity. Especially if you are a well known national figure.
I have had to deal with angry bitter alcoholics my entire life. And I am always careful what I say. I hold my tongue so as not to anger them too much because I know they're unstable. They're sick and irresponsible. And I never want to say anything that will set them off in any way. People I have learned, buy into this stuff. They love negativity. They love to point fingers. They love to blame others. And the more hateful, the better they like it. It makes them feel powerful unfortunately.
We see this every single day now. There is little respect for anyone. What is wrong with disagreeing with someone without invoking violent rhetoric? It's a sign of ignorance, immaturity and just plain bullying.
Grow up. People believe what they are hearing. And as was said yesterday, yes it may be free speech - but it's not without terrible consequences which always ends up being directed toward decent responsible citizens, including children. As we saw yesterday.
What about the movies about the assassination of President Bush?
JuvenBachan, I know nothing of the movie. What is it about?
Pat,
Here is a link to the story. It never got much attention because it was one seen, not the story. Most of the attention was in England. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/01/AR2006090100858.html
Thanks Dennis. Looks like he was trying to use a good marketing technique by using President Bush instead of a fictional character. Lots of people didn't appreciate it. Happy to say.
I'm not sure the lack of civil discourse is any worse now than in other times in our political history. There IS one big difference and that is the availability of information/opinion via cable tv and the internet. We're all subjected to information overload and the micro managing/armchair quarterbacking of every single aspect of lives and decisions.
While viewing various new/opinion sources is "available" I don't think it is necessarily healthy to spend much time at it. Rather....use the availability to enlighten yourself to other points of view...and then move on.
The answer to the problem? Probably education. As a society it appears we have along way to go before we understand all of the ramifications of information overload.
A British film maker produces a movie made for British TV. You're going to equate this with the statements of active American participants in the political process? American Liberals are responsible for the commercial enterprise of people in Europe, but American Conservatives aren't responsible for the likes of Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Jesse Kelly, Rick Barber, Rick Perry, Jonah Goldberg, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Michael Savage?
Not even.
John,
It's called grasping at straws. Rather than take responsibility, they blame another kid.
Well said, Pat Boston...
I'm going to leave the fray now. Obviously fact-checking is an unknown skill to the RRRRWW so why waste any more breath on it tonight. Never give up the truth to power, though. I think that is what the years of Neo-Con takeover has taught us.
Don't expect any of the perpetrators of this kind of headlong rush to a violent outcome to ever admit it. They're babies and bullies. They strike and dogde. It's what they do.
And the worst thing for them is to have to listen to us who say--look, you know what I'm talking about. Do you really want to go there? Do you really want to roll those dice?
Why is the left so intrested in only having a one state of mind and speech, people on the Right do have a Constitutional Right to be Represented the way they want, so do people on the left, but many on the left want voice on the right Sibilanced because of things they may have said or may have been wrongly Construed in the mind of a mad man. Too many on the left speak of Free Speech but then only want speech that is Progressive said, to me Free Speech is for all or it will be for none, and many on the left wished Bush would die, or that he would be Impeached, many on the left hate ideas from the right because they don't seem to embrace Semi-Socilistic means and elemate more of the free market, why can't both sides have there say from the then just only the Veiw on the left?
Will MSNBC end its snarky stories about Sarah Palin? MSNBC interviews every political enemy of Sarah and treats these people like experts in all things Palin. I wonder how many people believe MSNBC's lie that Todd and Sarah embezzled to build their home. Just one of many lies MSNBC has told. We know that Ms. Palin deals with dozens of death threats. Do these people get their information from MSNBC?
Depends. How many of these can you point to that ask for her to be "terminated", "taken down", "taken out", and the like? How many of these call her an "enemy of the state"? How many of these say "only Conservatism or America can survive, not both"? How many of these defend the right of "real Americans" who oppose her to carry weapons in her immediate vicinity while spouting threats about "watering the tree of Liberty"?
Or call for violence and a revolution by Dylan on his show. Maybe you missed this since you work so much?
Link please, I don't know who Dylan is.
Really? Google Dylan Ratigan on "Vioence and Revolution" Weird thing is the Huffington Post took it off? Strange????? You Tube also, unless my computer is messed up.
Now why would all of the videos be pulled MSNBC?
Why would Olbermann ask for calm then blame the Republicans for this? I bet today MSNBC would change their tune. Now I know why MSNBC is the lowest ranking cable news agency. If you can't produce reliable facts, just make them up.
First Read, You speak about anger. The Sixties was the period which the Democrats first display political
anger so much so that it changed our society for the worst. The Left gets angry when their philosophy gets
criticized, they don't like it when others describe it as representative of the old Soviet Union, they don't
like it when others reject it for a Capitalist society. My condolences go out to the family of Congresswoman
Gifford, and her aides who were shot and to their family. First Read, the radicalization of American society
is to carry some blame for these abberations of American society which produce these radicalized vagrants
who disrupt our normal course of living from time to time. First Read what about the movie that showed
the killing of President Bush? Again, this is a dastardly act, to silence a free representative of Congress
and her message. I condemn it and it hurt me to see a little child killed in the process. I think this man
should be executed as swiftly as possible. Let's not wait for the next 30 years.
Yes the 60s were bad. IF you remember, the liberal leaders were shot down dead! I challenge Mark Murray to post quotes from Democrats that talk about bullets, crosshairs, reload, 2nd ammendment solutions and any other subrosa intimations of violence if the political outcomes didnt go there way!! I DARE YOU!!! I have seen MANY from the right!! AT least be fair and accurate!
You mean the British movie, shown on British TV?
Care to explain how American Liberals are culpable for that?
You called him "crazy" to absolve Sarah Palin of any guilt. Now you want him executed as soon as possible. Kinda like Lee Harvey Oswald?
If he's crazy, like you claim, he won't be executed. Not guilty by reason of INSANITY. So we'll have fifty years to ask him why he listened to Sarah Palin so carefully.
I have come to the realization that we are one day closer to 1968 when King and Kennedy were assassinated for the very same exercising of speech like Congresswoman Giffords was attempting on Jan. 8th. Those were very bad times and if we don't collectively work together, person to person, we will be there soon!!
How do you know this guy didn't decide to kill and went to the closest mall he could find, having nothing to do with the Congess-woman? What if the killing was just that, like any of the hundreds of murders that happen everyday?
What evidence do you have to suggest this was politically motivated? How do you know this was not a completely random act of a crazy man? He killed a 9 year old. Was that his plan? Was it political?
You know better muffin. You just won't say so.
muffin: because he walked right up to Giffords in the middle of the event and shot her in the head at point blank range. She WAS the target!! Nothing randon about it!
He also shot several other people. Politically motivated also? Can you speak to the motivations of a crazy person? The fact that she was shot is not dispositive of his motive. Do we even know if she was the first victim shot? If she was not, what does that say?
He ASKED for Giffords and was directed to the back of the line. Unhappy with that he barged past everyone else to shoot her FIRST, THEN opened fire on others nearby.
Keep denying it if you like, I'm sure the entire Conservative Movement would like to just fade into the woodwork right now.
It is like they are proud of their ignorance. If you don't know the particulars, why are you here theorizing falsehoods?
muffin.............. good grief! HIs rants are full of political rantings. It is just his type that are set off with violent rhetoric or screaming untruths. Dont forget, the killer of those 3 young Pittsburgh cops told investigators that he killed them cuz he thought they were coming to take all his guns----- something repubs were accusing Pres. Obama of doing for months before! But, I suppose you'd excuse that too!
WHAT CRAP!!
No one with any common sense is promoting or wants physical harm to anyone.
Has anybody asked WHY people are so angry or display anger? NO!!
The anger is due to the way policies and laws are being passed and SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS!
Any and all laws are passed by a majority of both houses of Congress and are signed by the President. What problem do you have with that?
Ricardo..... trying to justify??
History will not look kindly on this moment when the Republican Party mainstreamed crazy.
No one passed laws illegally. The laws and policies that were passed were implemented by duly elected representatives of the people. However the term "SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS' implies violence and begs retribution where there is no justification for either.
Jack,
Legislation put into law, like it or not, can be undone by Congress or the courts.
Can you undo the taking of a like?
I didn't like being lied to and the Iraq war "shoved down my throat" and I don't like paying for my government to TORTURE people and I don't like paying for rich people to be bailed out of their financial troubles and NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, but I would NEVER hurt anyone for those beliefs because it undermines the basis of those beliefs, which if you can't figure out, are LIBERAL values.
And Gee--Totally. And neither do I.
And none of them can seem to figure out the bottom line truth that it is solely on account of liberal, lefty, Enlightenmenty worldview made society with the oldest written Constitution, namely the United States of America..
...that allows them to spew their hatred of all things liberal and good.
Amazing.
Many of us instinctively knew, and said so at the time, that the Sarah Pailn "crosshairs" ad went over the line and might encourage some nut to exercise his/her own personal "2nd Amendment Remedy". The fact that the shooter from yesterday wouldn't fit into any group is irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether he is a Marxist, a Klansman, a neo-Nazi, or a Muslim.
Those who make their living by "stirring the pot" with their irresponsible rhetoric are to blame, in part, for the events of yesterday.
Sure - if people were incapable of independent thought. I saw a slasher movie the other day - Saw IV. If I now go out and kill someone is it the film maker's fault or mine?
And if what you say is true, what s the remedy? Do we censor all the so called pot stirrers? Who gets to decide who is a stirrer, and what speech is protected, you?
The first amendment can sometimes be tough, but I think we can all agree it is a good thing. And please no immediate harm talk. Shouting Fire in a theater is actionable. Palin's cross hairs were several months ago.
Does obama calling republicans his "enemy" qualify as over the line rhetoric? Isn't the greatness of our country our ability to disagree with each other? Calling people ENEMIES is rather hyper and can lead certain individuals to take action.
Doesn't seem to have happened yet. The liberal rhetoric usually seeks legal justice not extra-legal vendetta and lynch-mob mentality. Obama was wrong to use the term enemy without the modifier "political" placed before it. Have any Latinos taken a shot a Michelle Bachmann or Gov. Brewer?
Paul
I see some of your point but you miss the main one
The Republicans are the opposition not the enemy of the Democrats
Politicians are the problem! They lie incessantly, are arrogant elitists that simply game the system at the expense of the American public. It's enough to tee anyone off, especially a mentally unstable leftist or Libertarian person like Loughner. Blaming rhetoric is a red herring. Where is the proof that this loon listened to anything other than "his conscious dreams?"
"conscience dreams". What evidence do you have that he was a leftist or Libertarian?
Which is it, a Leftist or a Libertarian? A Leftist would be a Marxist or something similar. Ron Paul is a Libertarian.
If you don't know the difference maybe you should do a little research before criticizing others.
My problem with this is was this man someone who needed mental health services and wasn't able to get it? Had he been identified as someone who should not be allowed to purchase firearms but the information didn't get into the system, as with the Virginia Tech shooter? As for whether or not the shooter was left or right leaning, remember that he had a copy of "Mein Kamf" as well as "The Communist Manifesto". As far as the language goes that we heard during the last campain goes, no one, right, left, or center, should be using language suggesting armed insurection, bombing, shootings, or even running someone out ona rail with a fresh coat of tar and feathers.
Javadanny, you are so right! To Muffintop1, she was the target and he continued to shoot regardless of who was there! He did not care who he injured or killed! The tone and rhetoric needs to be stopped! Why can't we just be civil with each other! We can agree to disagree with policies but the politics in Washington has gotten so toxic and the rhetoric so outlandish that there is consequences and it usually erupts in violence! Stop the Hate and bring back civility! Republicans bear alot of responsiblity to this rhetoric because they refused to condemn some of the hateful comments and they only cared for being elected instead of calming people down! There are some out there that will take what is being said seriously and will act on it! It is a sad day for America, for the victims and for those lost yesterday. We must pray for our Country and those injured and lost!
Sorry Olivia the civility shipped sailed long ago. It will not be back, it's just the devolving nature of our society. I am a conservative. I do not want others to tell me what to say, and I will not tell them. We are all adults. Each is responsible only for themselves.
Nobody but the shooter is responsible for his acts. No one.
Olivia - why don't you preach to George Soros and Company, Chris Mathews, Keith Olberman. It's about time you started preaching to you own choir.
Dear muffin............Did your mother never tell you that there are certain things you shouldn't say in public. Adults and Conservatives have the same responsibilities to the society as liberals. You obviously don't believe in evolution, but rather devolution. I am not only responsible for myself, I feel responsible for my family, my friends, and my country and my planet. You are a very sad person.
Sadly, the prdeictable left is using this tragedy to once again keep pushing their agenda.
This 22 yr old young man is crazy. Plain and simple. He was hearing voices and "creating new currency" and discovering "conscious dreaming" and discovering the govt was using "vocabulary to brainwash us".
Clearly, this has nothing to do with anything political but never will the loony left allow facts to get in the way of their desire to rant about the right. Has the press forgotten Eric Cantor's office being shot up last year over his stance on obamacare? Has the press forgotten president Reagan was shot? Would you like me to google every republican ever threatened, shot at, actually assaulted?
Either you people want civil discourse or you don't. If you do, that begins with this sort of one-sided nonsense stopping. The tea party consists of ordinary Americans who feel TaxedEnoughAlready. So STOP besmirching us if you want civil discourse. You don't like what we stand for and we don't like what you stand for. Either we talk to each other civilly or we don't.
Keep denying, john. Many of us have been warning for months that violent rhetoric would lead to violent action.
Language has consequences.
And YOU are among the worst @!$%#r. There is NO proof the guy even understood that he wasn't "conscious dreaming". Did you see his writing? GET A GRIP!!! Hypocrite as usual. These poor people lost their lives because of a deranged individual but YOU insist on twisting it into something YOU want it to be. As usual you are despicable. If YOU would stop posting the level of civility would improve. Go put a gun to your head and make the world a kinder place. John B of des moines should stop representing the liberal dems.
Cantor's office wasn't shot up. A stray bullet fell from the sky at an angle so close to verticle that it came to rest on the sill between the glass and the shade. DOUCHE.
Im pretty sure he meant "conscious" dreaming. It fits the context! And "currency" means other things besides money!
Tom are you suggesting this man's writing have real meaning?
Paul...that's a joke right? A random bullet fell from the sky? Was Santa flying overhead at the time? What is DOUCHE? Is that another term for "civil discourse"?
For a guy with all that ammo at his house in Maryland, you sure do play dumb about the physics of bullet trajectory. BAG.
It is in the police report.
john stephens,
A police statement this afternoon said that a preliminary investigation shows that a bullet struck a window, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with only enough force to break the window but did not penetrate the blinds. Currently there are no suspects in the case, and it is unclear whether the bullet was targeted at the office or simply landed there at random. Police say a single detective is assigned to investigate the incident.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/richmond_pd_investigating_cant.html
Does obama calling republicans his "enemy" qualify as over the line rhetoric? Isn't the greatness of our country our ability to disagree with each other? Calling people ENEMIES is rather hyper and can lead certain individuals to take action.
Obama recognised the error of his retoric and apologised! Palin, Beck and Limbaugh have never recognised or apologised for the daily spewing of hate and violence ladened speech we are subjected to from their silly shows and twitters.
Once again, totally missing the point..........two wrongs do not make a right. I don't care how many liberals or Democrats made inflammatory statements. None of them have an excuse. All of them must be stopped. Advertising and promoting violence against political opponents must end; on both sides!
This guy is probably just a nut job and you people are blowing this all out of proportions. Everybody's been waiting for the the other shoe to drop, what with Republicans threatening to start shooting people if they don't get their way soon. But it hasn't happened. This is all just the usual Republican drama-queen rhetoric to entertain their followers. Murdering non-believers is a fantasy for them; they won't really do it.
And YOU are among the worst @!$%#r. There is NO proof the guy even understood that he wasn't "conscious dreaming". Did you see his writing? GET A GRIP!!! Hypocrite as usual. These poor people lost their lives because of a deranged individual but YOU insist on twisting it into something YOU want it to be. As usual you are despicable. If YOU would stop posting the level of civility would improve. Go put a gun to your head and make the world a kinder place. John B of des moines should stop representing the liberal dems.
"CONSCIENCE dreaming" not "conscious dreaming"
He knew who and what he was doing. He was trying to gain favor with Bristol, his new neighbor. Just a theory on my part.
So, Paul, are you suggesting that his theory of concious dreaming has validity? More so than conscience dreaming?
I'm suggesting you don't read very well and don't understand what is being written. Then because you don't understand what is written you think that you can just substitute a word that you think the author 'probably" meant. It is called conflation.
So Paul, You ARE saying that the shooter has a viable theory of conscious dreaming???
Go put a gun to your head?! While you are ranting at some liberal? Do you even see how ridiculous and oh, dare I say, crazy that sounds?
John Stephens, do you even hear yourself think?
Nice try on the cognative dissonance reduction on your part, but, most of us?
Not buying it.
You notice the people in the country who use terms like lock and reload , using second remedy rights and putting cross hairs on Rep's districts they all have 1 think in common they all get a place to show case there bull on DUMB FUX and hate radio like Limbaugh , it is time the FCC to get involved and put an end to it , I watch all programing I don't see this on NBC CBS or ABC for that matter not on MSNBCor CNN , it's time to demand that elected officals make the FCC regulate what right wing hate media can say or not say until they grow up. Clinton was right when He said the hinged and un-hinged alike are listening.
Kevin I agree we should get rid of this free speech BS that the country was founded upon. PBS certainly needs to taken off the air for the all the crap they put on the air. They have no balance whatsoever they just push their one-sided view of everything. And that guy keith i blow men on MSNBC is a real radical. He NEVER says ANYTHING nice about any republicans at all. You are right. WE need to have the govt. control what news, and opinions people in this country get to hear.
Wrong again, douchebag. An Illinois Republican was just on Keith's show Friday night to explain how Gov. Jan Brewer could easily find 26 ways to fund the state organ transplant assistance budget. Keith had nothing but nice things to say about the guy. Rightly so. DOUCHE.
Douchebag? I am not familiar with this? Is this a term to describe your mother?
"Like I said muffintop - you're part of the problem!
Even when confronted with cold hard facts you continue to deny rather than denounce!"
Pot....kettle....black.
FstEde,
I agree. I haven't seen much on this vine where the conservatives are denouncing this kind of angry hate filled rhetoric the we are subjected to 24/7. They have not bothered to extend thoughts and prayers to the victims. All I see is them screaming that it's not their fault, that it's the left that's to blame and full of hate. This is an old school yard tactic. If you can't defend your own actions, tell the accuser that it's them that's full of hate and are bigots etc.
OK guys, this is what a 2nd amendment solution looks like. I hope you're proud. muffintop, I'm sure you are. Why am I pretty sure you don't have many friends. Trust me, it's not without reason.
Anyway, my love, thoughts and prayers go to the victims and their families. This is another very dark chapter in our history and I hope we can learn from it. If not, it will be repeated.
Consider this- both sides are only hearing the parts they want. It wouldn't matter if every conservative poster here offered nothing but condolences, the liberal types would still bash. And from the perspective of the conservatives, the liberal types are the first to cast stones at the conservatives and demand we take ownership of every crackpot idiot who has ever had a conservative thought. You are the first to demand we apologize for everything ever done by anyone who's ever dared not be a liberal. The rhetoric you claim is so hateful is the same rhetoric you spout in your claims.
Yes, this was a terrible tragedy. Committed by a single man who clearly has mental issues. Against many innocent people who did not deserve to die or be injured by this one crackpots actions. It doesn't matter if he's conservative or liberal, he's committed a heinous act that will forever alter the lives of hundreds of people but the reality is this is one man who acted on his own. It is not the fault of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, President Obama, Nancy Pelosi or anyone else. It is HIS fault. The only person that needs to take ownership of his actions is the shooter. The rest of us could certainly stand to take a lesson from this tragedy and be a bit more civil toward one another, understand that we are all free to express our opinions and that doing so does not make any one of us evil, and that we can choose to disagree with respect instead of hatred. Sadly, though, I don't see that happening, at least not on the FR boards.
HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE -HATE - HATE
Four letters. One word. Words matter.
HATE rolls from the tongue so easily. Anyone can do it. It is easy. Like this ...
I HATE those (insert demeaning, hateful term here). You can teach a child to hate. If you are popular or influential, you can get others to hate with you. It is so easy that you can even train a dog to hate. You can turn any word into a demeaning, hateful term.
I hate those NORMAL people. NORMAL people called a President bad names. NORMAL people have always used bad names. NORMAL people have committed more murders, rapes, and done more bad things. I HATE those NORMAL people.
See how easy.
HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE - HATE
Four letters. One word. Words matter.
My thoughts and prayers are with all those impacted by this terrible, senseless act of violence.
Perhaps the Tea Party could possibly understand their tax dollars go for programs to help the mentally unstable. Programs for these people are being cut in every community accross the country. Oh, but if they could only find a way to make money off of the mentally ill, then they would be supporting them. It's all about "your" money, not helping the people who really need help. It's so very, very sad.
Sarah Palin, you should be ashamed of yourself.
What does Sarah Palin have to do with this. Again more blame and more hate.
It would be hateful to say that Sarah Palin ought to be shot down like a wolf from a helicopter, for this. The people who blame her for creating the "reload" rhetoric want her to take some responsibility for ignoring the warnings that Congresswoman Giffords made direct mention of in an interview with Chuck TODD and Savannah Guthrie. Just like Bush and 9/11 or Katrina; you can warn them ahead of time that tragedy will happen if they don't make adjustments in their behavior, and after they ignore that warning and the tragedy takes place they claim that no one told them this could happen. LIARS.
Correct - Anger. This President, our President has recieved more dealth threats that the last 5 Presidents combined. Says something obout our political discourse.
This morning, on Meet the Left, the story was not about a nutjob that wanted his 15 minutes, before, his foiled, "death by cop" suicide, but instead, about how politics and "hinted" talk radio and tv may have caused the probem. Fact; there are thousands on nutjobs out there and it doesn't matter, one bit, what is said on tv or radio, these nutjobs are going to find a way to take out innocent people, before they take out themselves. There is no way to protect one's self against nutjobs. Just hope and pray to God that you and/or your family are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The critics, trying to place the blame, are a problem, not the answer.
So he'll be talking to the cops and prosecutors like a canary and pleading guilty as quickly as he can so that they can execute him before the year is out, right? Because he wasn't running to try to get away, while reloading at the same time, to make that escape more likely, shooting at his pursuers. he wanted to get shot and killed....by cops that weren't even there ..............my ass.
Why is that Dave, because we won't shut up and do what we're told if we know what's good for us?
We know what's good for us. Shutting up and doing what we're told isn't it.
I echo your sentiments 100% JohnB - these wingers seem to have a real issue with the FACT we are no longer silent!
Not to mention the truth HURTS!