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As President Barack Obama signs legislation to roll back the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, Pentagon officials still don't have a clue how long it will take to implement the repeal and lift the ban on gays and lesbians openly serving in the military.
The law itself says the repeal will not take effect until Secretary Robert Gates, Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen and the President himself certify the military's readiness.
But before that certification, the Pentagon needs to come up with a plan for implementation to deal specifically with issues such as housing and benefits for same-sex partners, the rights of gays and lesbians (particularly in the area of enlistment or re-enlistment), and an education and training regimen for all servicemembers.
While the law itself does not lay out a timetable for those plans, Gates has suggested that it could take as long as a year.
There also appears to be no desire among Pentagon officials to slap a moratorium on enforcement of Don't Ask Don't Tell pending that implementation and certification process.
In October, Gates imposed new more stringent procedures for enforcement of the ban -- which many in the military already consider a de facto moratorium.
The Pentagon doesn't know if any new DADT cases have been referred up the chain of command since then.
However, Pentagon officials and the service chiefs have made it clear to servicemembers that until certification, DADT remains the law. Anyone who openly declares they are gay or lesbian could be subject to separation from the service -- at least as of now.
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The most important piece of Civil Rights Legislation in 50 years is going to be signed into law. Thank you brave republicans that put this country first and politics second. This historical moment could not have been done without them. Thank you.
Colburn on Tuesday said there was no meetings, no input and that this bill was just written and being pushed through. I guess he forgot about the meetings he attended and the fact that this bill is not new. This bill is also paid for so there is no impact on the deficit. Remember Rep. Weiner this summer? The US Chamber of Commerce once again is opposing this with lobby money. And that is where the rub lies. The republicans are paying back the US Chamber of Commerce for the huge sums of money they spent to get them (the republicans) elected in November. Has nothing to do with what is right, and everything to do with paying back their “Sugar Daddy”.
From ThinkProgress:
“It appears even loyal Fox News has turned on Senate Republicans for their obstruction of the 9/11 first responders bill. Fox & Friends demanded the bill be passed; conservative guests have criticized Republicans’ opposition; and yesterday, host Shep Smith called out a dozen GOP senators by name who had refused to appear on his program to discuss the bill. Today, Smith zeroed in on Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), who has said he will block the bill; even if it means 9/11 responders have to wait until next year for benefits. In an act of public shaming, Smith displayed a photo of Coburn as if it were a wanted poster, urging his viewers to get a good look at “the man who is vowing to slow this down or block it, so the necessary funding for the illnesses of the first responders…doesn’t make it through”
Isn't Tom Coburn an M.D. for God's sake? Has he ever heard of that one oath....what's it called again?
...Oh, yeah- the Hypo CRITIC oath!
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
The most important piece of Civil Rights Legislation in 50 years is going to be signed into law. Thank you brave republicans that put this country first and politics second. This historical moment could not have been done without them. Thank you.
How True it is; navy. Yes we did. Thank you Mr. President for bringing justice and equality back to the USA.
From ThinkProgress:
“It appears even loyal Fox News has turned on Senate Republicans for their obstruction of the 9/11 first responders bill. Fox & Friends demanded the bill be passed; conservative guests have criticized Republicans’ opposition; and yesterday, host Shep Smith called out a dozen GOP senators by name who had refused to appear on his program to discuss the bill. Today, Smith zeroed in on Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), who has said he will block the bill; even if it means 9/11 responders have to wait until next year for benefits. In an act of public shaming, Smith displayed a photo of Coburn as if it were a wanted poster, urging his viewers to get a good look at “the man who is vowing to slow this down or block it, so the necessary funding for the illnesses of the first responders…doesn’t make it through”
I have always appreciated Shep for not drinking the hater-aide @ Fox. Shep is against toture too.
It makes sense that this legislation is passed right now since 2011 will be more withdrawal from the Bush Wars. With a new era of Military Readiness approaching, new recruits whether they be straight or otherwise, need to be assured of what they are getting into will not be anything short of protecting the United States and her interests. Our Servicemembers should feel secure in their decisions to be protectors.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
DBO;
You are correct, he is an MD. I am watching the President sign the Bill as I type. This is a great day for Americans. They are chanting "yes we can" and President Obama just said "yes we did".
Take cover the rest of the day on here, USNDV-Ret. There's gonna be a lot of nonsense and hate being spewed against our Commander-In-Chief today. If not for his signing this repeal, then for his accomplishing ONE MORE thing he promised during his campaign.
LouisJ;
Great post and words to live by. This President has in two years given us one of the most productive Congresses in History in spite of the oppositions that he has faced. It makes you wonder what this man could have done with some help instead on the consistent no way. I want to acknowledge those republicans that in the final hours of this 111th Congress that stood tall and put this country first and politics second. Without their help this Historical piece of Civil Rights legislation would not be possible. Our brave men and women no longer need to live a lie, they can hold theirs heads high on the battlefield of honor. To all of them I thank you for your service and share your victory today. God Bless.
America, the greatest country on this planet.
As I'm listening to President Obama address the repeal of DADT - all I can say is how PROUD I am of my President!
There's still no doubt in my mind that I voted for the right man for the right job at the right time!
Now onto the START treaty and the 9/11 bill... WHOO HOO!
Enjoy your well deserved time with your family later today Mr. President and wishing all of you a VERY MERRY Christmas and Happy - Healthy & Prosperous 2011!
At some point it's just time to do the right thing. That time is now.
Feisty:
Right on. This is a great day for America. In spite of all the obstacles that have been place in the path of our President, he has given America one of the most productive Congresses over the past two years.
He has saved this country from Bankruptcy, gave us a bevy of landmark legislation on Health Care, Finanacial Reform, Civil Rights and the list goes on. The economy, as reported a few hours ago, is still growing, slowly but still moving forward. The DOW at 11,500 up from the 8800 when he took ofice.
Damn those pesky FACTS Retired!
Thanks for the reminder! ;0)
DBO;
thanks for the heads up. Just put my hard hat on and my hazmat suit. If I do not get a chance later you and your family have a Merry Christmas. Stay safe.
US Navy. Great post and so true. The Chamber of Commerce expects pay back and it appears they're getting it.
What a sad day for our country.
Passing legislation to move this country farther and farther away from the good Lords teaching.
Judgement will come one of these days for you liberals that insist on breaking Gods laws.
I will pray for all of you and hope you will turn from your evil ways before it is too late.
Why do you liberals hate God and this country so much?
So what color dresses will these ladies be wearing? Not every one is happy about gays in the military. This country is going down in a hurry!
believe your good Lord taught you to hate the sin, not the sinner. But with a name like yours, I suppose you WOULD know better than Him.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired Dude/US Chamber of Commerce Demogue - Obsessed
I thought I heard somewhere that you were in the military, how come you don't respect the opinion of 67% of Marines and 50% of Soldiers in combat arms that are against DADT? Evidently you don't, huh?
Anyway we rushed through a law that will take a year to figure out how to solve all the problems it creates. What about the 1/3 of the group mentioned above that said they would seriously consider leaving if DADT passes. Just 20% would represent 250,000 combat troops leaving. Are you going to violate their Civil Rights (legal rights - the contract they signed say they would be forced to serve with openly gays?) and make them serve. THAT'S NOT FAIR (whine). How do replace them? You could get out of the military by saying you were gay - honorable discharge with full benefits including education. Why can you not get out for saying your not gay - fair right?
Who wants to shower with openly gays? The Survey says.... not very many. Build separate facilities, shower in shifts, .....?
Who wants to billet/sleep with openly gays? The Survey says....not very many. Actually Not very many appears quite a bit in these issues ....according to the survey.
Civil Rights? How about all the troops that hate Obama's ROE. They have the freedom to speak out on that? How about all the troops that are against Obama's re-election, they get to do political commercials? Civil rights, right? Why not?
Well, at least somethings should be easy. Harvard, Yale, Columbia ... all the liberal schools that have banned the ROTC can put the ROTC back on campus right away - wouldn't want to discriminate against a gay for not being able to join the ROTC on his campus.
So we are going to cut back on the military, yet spend a ton of money implementing this social issue.
What a great day for America!
I can see it now. We should create a whole new branch of the military. They could wear pink uniforms and cary Gucci rucksacks!
S W E E T!!!!!!
Watch out... those guys are trained to kill with an eyeliner pencil!
I understand that the Gay's are crying about not being treated fair already. Now we will have to integrate so many into Command positions meaning quotas.(black, white, female, gay,hispanic, islamic, ETC.....) Not the best person qualified for the job. Barracks have to be changed because it may be awkward for another male solder to have his boyfriend over. What uniform does he/she wear? (male or female). We have to have seperate showers now! It seems Gen. Amos was a lot smarter than most. I would think it is already a distraction.
Bob1805084: "Anyway we rushed through a law that will take a year to figure out how to solve all the problems it creates".
Come on, Bob, seriously......"rushed through"??? In one way or another, the repeal of this policy has been being worked on since the day it was originally enacted, and has been actively worked on by many in both Congress and the military for the entire last two years.
I guess by your way of thinking, we should really still be re-thinking that whole Emancipation Proclamation thing, too, huh? Maybe Women's Suffrage while we're at it?
JoAnne,
Yea, after 17 years, the final report that everything hinges on - was released what November 30, a few weeks ago in a lame duck session. Why was it not presented anytime before in the last two years? Why the lame duck?
Not a rush? How do you deate/discuss/make amendments to the taxes, the omni-bus, DREAM, DADT, 9/11, food safety, hungry fat kid act, START, etc. in a couple weeks at the last minute.
You got the answers for the questions I asked? Why will it take a year to figure out if it wasn't rushed?
And you used the word seriously?
HAW HAW! You people are celebrating the repeal of a law you hate that was enacted by your own BILL CLINTON! lol
You're all just dizzy because Obama signed a bill. The libs on here don't if they're coming or going.
What goofballs. What's even funnier is someone like "angry ginger" talking about START. Like he/she/it has a clue what it even is. Too funny. lmao
"The most important piece of Civil Rights Legislation in 50 years"
That's being a little melodramatic, don't you think? Considering how small of a percentage of the population this affects, I'd say this was a colossal waste of time and energy. Besides, everyone knows there aren't any gays in the military. Except for the Navy. All those sailors are gay!
I'm quite impressed by the blatant disregard of recent goings-on I am seeing in these homophobic pricks. Pardon my French! I believe I sense the sarcasm in the phrase: "no gay people in the military," but just to clarify, I am a homosexual soldier in the U.S. Army, in a Special Warfare environment. That may mean nothing to you naysayers, but this line of work isn't neccessarily a shoe-in kinda deal. The men and women who come into this community come from all different kinds of work (infantry, air defense, medic, drivers, and other military branches). As of yet, in the year that I've been in this community, I have not met a single person who is opposed to working with gay servicemembers. The closest thing to discrimination i've faced (and I don't hide the fact that i'm gay at all): A recent reclass from an infantry unit called me gay in a half joking-half degrading sort of manner. I understand that this thinking is somewhat imprinted in infantry lifestyle as being gay is seemingly weak (i'll get to that later) but the best part is that, immediately after the comment was made, said infantry soldier realized his mistake and immediately appologized. The military is ready for this. And to debunk all the rainbows-and-butterflies thinking that runs among homophobes, I've worked with NUMEROUS (more than I care to count) SF and Special Operations men and women whom are gay or lesbian. SF! These are the bad**s guys who grow beards, blend in hostile environments, and kill some of our toughest, most elusive enemies. I'm not seeing anything "pretty" about the effects of a .50 cal, or the bullet-spread of the M-4, or the awesome destruction of the AT-4. And that's all any of us are down-range, a weapon. Sexual orientation doesn't matter for a weapon, because it seems slightly awkward to even think about, but that is all that we are: A weapon to protect the freedoms and honor of those back home, to protect the rights of those who wish to denounce such petty things as the repeal of DADT. Now ain't that the s**t.
Thanks for your service, Kyle. We owe a great debt to people men and women like you...regarless of sexual orientation.
"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?
"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."
VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. ________________________________________
One of the great metaphysical questions of all time
Finding old Santy in the gleam of a young child eyes is proof.
Look in the glint of that young Wife’s eyes when she looks across the room at her young Husband that has worked a month of over time so the youngster’s have a little something from Santa.
Look at the pride in that unemployed young Husband who’s been looking after the Kids so that the wife could work.
How about that Jewish Co-Worker that volunteered to work an extra shift on Christmas Day so someone could be home with their Family? Hope somebody volunteered to work Hanukah for him that’s the way these things should be done.
How about that Muslim Firefighter that volunteered his time to raise money and take a child shopping so that Santa could visit one more miracle of the season? Hope somebody helped him out with Ramadan.
How about that young Child that forgoes expensive toys so they can include in their budget something for their single Mom?
I’ve seen even the staunchest Atheist working down at the Homeless shelter feeding folks and handing out warm Coats.
How about that young man or women serving their country in a far off place that a classroom of kids has sent a Christmas card and some homemade cookies to so they won’t feel so all alone on a special day?
Santa Claus thy name is myriad but you will always exist within the heart of good folks all over the world no matter what religion, ethnicity or circumstances of birth or income
As for me I hope I never cease to believe.
Tis the season for Peace on Earth and Goodwill To All Men
Keep well Friends
Thanks for the very moving post, buddy- you're aces!
Drive . Haven't you heard? Coburn has replaced the copy of the Hippocratic oath pledge on his office wall with a dollar sign.
Yes Virginia, There is a Santa. He is in the images of your mind. Use it and you won't go wrong.
Patrick Salt Lake City
Drive . Haven't you heard? Coburn has replaced the copy of the Hippocratic oath pledge on his office wall with a dollar sign.
Does he have it placed right above, or below, the portrait of Juven Bachan? (George Washington is SO passe....)
IR:
You write the best posts. Your words are right on and I thank you for them. You and your family have a Merry Christmas and stay safe. This is a great day for Americans.
Independent Redneck Va.
How about that young man or women serving their country in a far off place that a classroom of kids has sent a Christmas card and some homemade cookies to so they won't feel so all alone on a special day?
Santa Claus thy name is myriad but you will always exist within the heart of good folks all over the world no matter what religion, ethnicity or circumstances of birth or income
As for me I hope I never cease to believe.
Tis the season for Peace on Earth and Goodwill To All Men
Keep well Friends
===========================================================
Thanks for keeping hope and faith alive; Independent Redneck Va.
I have to add to the hope and faith you bring. This is for you and all our friends too.
Silent Night!
The origin of the Christmas carol we know as Silent Night was a poem that was written in 1816 by an Austrian priest called Joseph Mohr. On Christmas Eve in 1818 in the small alpine village called Oberndorf it is reputed that the organ at St. Nicholas Church had broken. Joseph Mohr gave the poem of Silent Night (Stille Nacht) to his friend Franz Xavier Gruber and the melody for Silent Night was composed with this in mind. The music to Silent Night was therefore intended for a guitar and the simple score was finished in time for Midnight Mass. Silent Night is the most famous Christmas carol of all time!
Every one must click on the link to appreciate the season for Peace on Earth and Goodwill To All Men.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmNukflPJf8&feature=fvst
It is truly beautiful for our members in the brave gay community to be FREE at such time and for START being ratified when the world is yearning for peace.
Happy Holidays Everyone
I think this wish is most appropriate with the signing of DADT & START on this joyous day.
As usual IR, inspiring. Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Tom
Bev;
Great post. I offer that we should keep these values all year round not just during Christmas. This is part of what makes this country great. The willingness to help our fellow men and woman for no other reason than to help. No strings attached. The old line "It is better to give than receive" is very true and we should practice this more often during the course of our lives.
Thank you and Merry Christmas to all
Bev thanks for Silent Night it sparks a memory
My wife and I were spending Christmas (before children) in a Hostel in Austria around 1980
Every evening the week before Christmas they would light actual candles on a evergreen in the common room for about an hour every evening right after dinner
On Christmas Eve at midnight the Church ( about 500 years old) had a brass section play Silent Night. It is a tradition in that part of the world.
Silent Night ringing out across that cold snowy silent valley in the Alps is a treasure.
IR, a beautiful sentiment. That letter always reminds me that all things are possible if we choose to believe.
"Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me...."
Yes, there is a Santa Claus!
Santa Claus is Barack Obama and the Democrats/big federal government.
Childlike faith? Yep, that's real too. (That's how elections are won)
There's that Christmas spirit!
God bless us, every one!
Dems are nit-pickin' after the shell lacking. Elections have consequences , Dems,
The President has just signed the Bill and this is a great day for America. We do not need your negative BS to try and bring it down. The crowd is chanting "Yes we Can" and our President said "Yes we Did". Civil Rights is not nit-picking. 70% of the American People and almost all of the Military higher up's (except for the Marine General) have favored repealing this DADT. In case you are not aware, there are gays buried in Arlington. They served this country with honor and paid the ultimate price so we an be safe here. They should be honored not degraded.
Juven...
Nile
Juven. Your right, and I for one am following the pattern set by republicans after the 08 election. That is ignore the results and begin the fight for 2012.
Correctamundo, Juvy! Which is why I'm glad the lame duck session was so productive. Democrats control things until the next session, which doesn't start until January.
JuvenBachan
Dems are nit-pickin' after the shell lacking. Elections have consequences , Dems
Who is shoveling bullsh!t at a time when we all should be rejoicing in the bliss of the season and the advancement of our country?
Whoooooooooo and who
Even republicans would condemn you.
Juven,
The consequences are:
1) When you only take one House of Congress, the best you can do is sneak through tax breaks for millionaires while the rest of the country suffers with no real increase in net income since 1980 and gas prices over $3.00/gallon. If that's what you ran on, good luck in 2012. People remember....
2) Obama is still getting what he wants and you can't stop him. In fact, if you try, you'll all be out on your behinds in the next election, when you have to run against a President with an economy on the rebound, and even more lower and middle class Americans ticked off at the GOP, party of the priveleged, showing up at the polls in a Presidential election year.
3) Seriously, are John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, and Sarah Palin the saviors of your party? Get real. Even the reactionary Teabaggers better distance themselves from the GOP next time. It is time for a third party to emerge, so that it can replace the GOP on the way out.
You folks were lucky to tap into a general feeling of disgust over the economy last time. You couldn't really capitalize on it though, because you insisted on running witches and whackos as part of your party and you had no real message other than dissatisfaction of the status quo. When it comes time to govern, you still don't know what you want, so you end up capitulating to get tax breaks for the rich....pathetic. You will never be able to expand your base, and can only hope to win elections where the majority of Americans decide to sit home.
Your message, your voters and your accomplishments, are worn and tired. Nobody wants to listen to the whining anymore. Get with it, or get out of the way...try running another Bush for office. See where that gets you.....
MKEMike:
Great post got a vote. I could not have said it any better. You and your family have a Merry Christmas.
to vote
Speaking of stuff and nonsense- did JoAnna and ME First Bill run off together for the holidays? Haven't seen 'em on here lately.
Feisty- y' out there? Y' seen these two anywhere?
DBO:
Have not seen them for awhile on FR or any place else for that matter.
Morning Buzz...
I noticed that yesterday - also conspicuously missing are mixed nuts & dangerfield along with the large mouth carp and the rest of the gang of merry misfits...
My bet is the ex-chewowowa gang is on some cruis ship in the Caribbean - remember how they used to brag about it?
They're probably the ones that tossed a monkey wrench into the prop-shaft of that Carnival ship a while back, hoping the company would give 'em a free cruise for their inconvenience!
I picture them on the LIDO deck lapping up all the free Kibbles-n-Bits cocktails they can muster... lol
Took too long, but finally, people all all RACES, GENDERS and PERSUASIONS may serve and possibly die for this country.
Equal opportunity for all - THAT is what America is all about.
GMJ:
I agree 100%.
It looks like MORE THAN EQUAL opportunity for PCers to me.
D-Loominator...
If by "PCers" you mean protected classes... MAN HAVE YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!
To quote an Obama supporter "It's gonna be like Christmas!" and the dude sitting in the White House hasn't wasted one minute of time making sure that is the case.
A brutha got to take care of his peeps you know!
That was one fantastic ceremony. Legislation that will affect so many lives. Great great job by everyone. Two years into this Administration, and DADT is history.
And as President Obama stated, thank you's as well need to be extended to Republicans.
I wish more people in this nation would join the fight instead of sitting on the sidelines, throwing mud, assuming nothing is being done to get toward a particular goal. These things take time - a lot of time - a lot of hard work and most especially, a lot of hard work toward seeking out those who are willing to work with this Administration. Not easy to find these days as you all know.
However, all that matters now is - it is done. Bravo to all. The Democratic Party stands very tall today.
Pat;
Touche' You and your family have a very Merry Christmas.
Dear US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired:
Thank you for the kind words. Same as well to you and yours.
So why can't male homosexuals donate blood at the Red Cross??
I mean, since they can serve/die for there Country?
And I know there's an exception if you've been celibate since 1977, seems
a little strict, heck, even Steven Hawkins has sex more often than that..
Frank "Regular Blood Donor" Drackman
If I remember correctly I think the ban was brought about because of the HIV thing. If that was true then they should also allow no doppers as well. Right or wrong, I think that was their reasoning behind it. I seem to want to say that has been modifed some over this summer. I will have to check that out.
ummm "Because of the HIV thing"??????
DUH, HOMOs/HIV, umm did you ride the short bus?
and ask Arthur Ashe about how safe the blood supply is, oh yeah, you can't cause he's dead.
Frank
That was the arguement that was made years ago. I did not say I believe it or even condone it. I just merely answered your question as to why it was so.
I think it may have changed in the past year or so.
So USNDV... would you accept a blood transfusion from these 'guys'?
BTW... under who's administration was DADT implemented? Just saying.
Can beggars be choosers? If you need a transfusion to have any chance at living, the only sane choice is to take the risk.
That's right, Paul. And up until now it was an unnecessary risk that was far less likely to impact those true heroes that serve our great nation.
But as you said... beggers can't be choosers!
(wait a minute... Obama is changing that rule too... lately it looks like beggars CAN be choosers... HOORAY!)
"Can beggars be choosers? If you need a transfusion to have any chance at living, the only sane choice is to take the risk."
___________________________________________
So, Paul, you are saying that, if you were at death's door, and a transfusion from Dick Cheney was the only possibility of saving your life, you would accept that Satanic blood into your body??
Would you then say "Thank you Mr. Cheney, I owe you my life."??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course.
DADT. I just watched President Obama's rousing speech and the signing of the bill repealing DADT. This is another step forward in recognizing that America must continue to evolve and eliminate civil rights abuses whenever the exist. This is a monumental day for the LGBT men and women who currently serve, have served and will serve. What matters is not who they love but rather that they want to serve their country, they are willing to die for their country and they are as patriotic as everyone else.
President Obama mentioned many who worked tirelessly to get this discriminatory policy repealed. It was nice to see the big hug for Representative Patrick Murphy who worked so hard to get this bill through the House; he did not win re-election but what mattered to him was doing what was right not what would get him reelected. The hug for Joe Liebermann who was outspoken and instrumental in fighting for this bill in the Senate.
How proud I am of everyone who fought for ending this policy for there were many but President Obama deserves the most credit for working with his military chiefs, legislators, the Pentagon to develop the strategy needed to ensure this happened.
GOP Tantrums. Yesterday, we witnessed another hissy fit thrown by republican legislators. Obviously, they do not grasp how shallow, callous, and pathetic their words sounded.
Senator Kyl complained about how unfocused legislators are having worked so hard these past few weeks, they could not possibly be listening nor could they have read the START treaty (all 17 pages which they have had for about 16 months, which they have delayed voting on 13 times claiming they need more time) or else they would not vote on this now and how could anyone concentrate when they were jumping from nominee approvals to START to 9/11 health care to DADT (ignoring the fact that this is the way things always get done moving from vote to vote to progress the agenda item to the next level toward final vote). He continued the tantrum by stating it was dinner time and again complained how disrespectful of Christmas this whole thing is--forgetting that it was only Dec 22.
Senator Graham complained about how tired he was and proceeded to apologize to Senator Kyl for the disrespect shown by his colleagues. Wow, I did not know that disagreeing with Kyl, McConnell, McCain, Graham and agreeing with every previous Sec of State, both republican and democrat, the Pentagon, the military Chiefs, and former presidents that the Senate should pass the START treaty now was disrespectful to poor Senator Kyl who wanted his dinner and his Christmas vacation.
Senator Tom Coburn, normally a more rational person, seems to have flown over the cuckoo's nest. He plans to "object" to the 9/11 responder's health bill today. He claimed yesterday that the bill was never in committee, there was no testimony or debate (it appeared from nowhere I guess like magic). It was written by the Health Committee and there was testimony and discussion, 9/11 responders were there telling their stories. Senator Coburn sits on the Health Committee but--wait for it--he didn't show up for the hearing--his seat was empty. It is one thing to request testimony and debate, it is another to cry foul and make a false claim when that Senator is the one who was marked absent the day those hearings took place.
Senator McCain. Last night on MSNBC one of the 9/11 responders who has lost half his lung capacity talked about his visit to Capitol Hill along with other responders and his attempts to see Senator McCain. McCain's staff gave him the e-mail address for him to use saying he wasn't available. Then this man saw McCain at an elevator, stopped him to explain he had tried to see him about the 9/11 responder health legislation--McCain, after thanking the man for his service, said he could not do anything for him, and left. I do believe Senator McCain, a former prisoner of war, has lost all capacity to empathize or show any interest or concern for the suffering of others. If McCain was in a hurry to vote or for a meeting or whatever, fine, but it would only have taken a few seconds to ask the man for his phone number and state he would call him.
Jeers to the GOP senators who continue to obstruct and delay voting on the 9/11 first responder health legislation. This is fully funded legislation, it adds zero dollars to the deficit. What troubles me is these are the same people who use 9/11 and the heroes of it as a campaign billboard and bumper sticker yet when it comes to helping these heroes, they refuse, object, delay, stall, deny and sometimes lie. The rest of the world must look at this and wonder why the United States of America does not take care of its people especially those who are and were there on 9/11 and after to aid their fellow citizens. Even Joe Scarborough says this makes republicans look really bad.
Jody:
Thank you for bringing us back to reality during this time of celebration. There is a lot of work to be done before the 111th congress goes home.
It appears that we have the votes (again with republican support) to pass both the START and the 9/11 First Responders Bill. Colburn has no shame, he has blocked bills before and as late as last evening said he was going to do same on the 9/11 Bill. He has lied consistently about no meetings, no discussions etc. He even is a member of the group that held the discussions.
If he does this I hope he gets thrown out of office. The problem is that many of those brave people will be dead by then and I put those deaths directly at the feet of Colburn. Everytime one dies, he is going to get an e-mail from me reminding him that he is as guilty as if he shot that person in cold blood. He is playing games with people's lives and that is beyond repugnant. I suggest we flood his office with e-mails and let him know what we the American people think of his actions.
These are the kinds of shenanigans you get when you refuse to investigate mass murders properly and thoroughly. Had investigators been allowed to properly evaluate the fumes and dust of the exhaust of the "pile" we would have known eplosives had been used to bring the buildings down and that rescuers had little to no chance of finding any survivors. They would have also known enough to where respirators and gas masks. $7 billion in medical injuries could have been avoided had we not allowed them to "cover-up" their crimes.
Jody -
Thanks for the shout-out to my neighboring Congressman Patrick Murphy up in Bucks County for all of his efforts in getting this finally done. For those of you who are not as familiar with him - and especially for those of you who seem to insist on here that only those who have actually served in the military really know about this issue - that would be Iraq war veteran Patrick Murphy, who served there as a Captain in the 82nd Airborne. So I think his opinions count for something. His district just let one of the really good guys get away. I wish him well in his future endeavors.
Cheers also to President Obama for his insistence on getting this done the right way, and especially for encouraging all those who were so unfairly affected by this policy to now re-apply to serve the country they love. The more I've seen of John McCain's statements in the last several weeks, the more certain I am than ever that I voted for the right man in 2008.
Thank you, Mr. President, and thank you to ALL the past, present and future troops for your service to this great country.
"ThinkProgress met with the group (Ground Zero workers) as they visited Coburn’s office. The first responders calmly explained to Coburn’s staff why they were there and requested a meeting. Instead, a meeting was denied and the staff demanded the first responders leave the office. After being made to wait outside the senator’s office for 20 minutes, the first responders finally left, singing “God Bless America” as they exited the Russell Senate office building."
____________
If you can't get in, please try again and again and again. Until somebody in the Republican Party listens.
Great post Jody.
Thank you Navy, JoAnne, Pat. The GOP does seem to be suffering a tantrum because they thought they would stop DADT, START, etc from going forward and they lost. I applaud the brave republican senators who refused to march lock step, who put country first not party--President Obama has given them due credit as well.
JoAnne, I have heard Patrick Murphy on MSNBC for 2 years talking about this legislation--he really deserves the credit given him by President Obama. It is a sad thing that he lost because he is a good legislator; I hope he runs again.
Mr. Murphy was on MSNBC this morning. The intro said he has three bronze stars. If it is the same Mr. Murphy this hero will be in Arlington. Those opposing the DADT repeal are on thin ice this time. Come election time they can explain to the people why they opposed the Dream Act, DADT, 9/11 First Responders Bill and the bevy of other legislation that is being held hostage in the Senate. Buyers Remorse is starting, I saw a piece that Gov. Barbour's approval rating went from 51% in November to 46% yesterday. Maybe America is waking up.
This is the most disastrous piece of legislation in the past 50 years........
You are letting a bunch of people with known mental disorders into the military.......
Might as well let Charles Manson out now..................You Elitist Northern Liberals must think he is normal too.....
Succession can't come quick enough.....Tired of the Communist/Socialist legislation being rammed down my throat....
That's secession genius. Come on, please provide more clarity on topics of Right Wing American values. Please.
Who reincarnated Jefferson Davis and gave him an account on FR?
Joe- I'd get right on that seccesion deal if I were you....
BTW- is "rammed-down'throater' the new 'birther' or 'telepromter-er'?
Y'all pretty funny, boy-ee.
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness LouisJ.
#1. You Liberals are ruining my life.
#2. You liberals are eliminating all personal liberty. (except if your gay.....You are encouraged to Flaunt it!!!!) Everyone else has to accept it or else.....
#3. You liberals in your pursuit of "Equality aka Equal Rights" are ruining the pursuit of Happiness...... God forbid that little white girl spends two micro seconds more time on the Playground than that little black girl.......
So, being homosexuality is now a "mental disorder"?
Wow.
I would get on secession.....Except Obama has eliminated any rights left to the states......
If a states rights don't fit his communist policies, he just ignores it........
If that isn't Communism/Fascism......You tell me what it is......
Gaydom is a Mental disease of the brain...............
Being gay is not normal..............
Gays should be accepted in our society, same way Down Syndrome is, but no, it's not normal and shouldn't be made as such.
JoeCool-2344366
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness LouisJ.
#1. You Liberals are ruining my life.
At last , my purpose in life is revealed.
Yeah Frank,
Communism/Fascism has it's price.......
"Love thou State, Hate thou family". Well said by a true Marxist.....
So, is little Trig Palin, by your definition, "not normal"?
If he's not, would Sarah Palin agree with your assessment?
JoeCool-2344366
This is the most disastrous piece of legislation in the past 50 years........
You are letting a bunch of people with known mental disorders into the military.....
A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder. It is a strong, irrational fear of something that poses little or no actual danger. Stick with your meds and your therapist; eventually you'll overcome it.
May I suggest you check your list of phobias. Which ever one(s) you choose to identify with whether it's homophobia or not; you need to know in either case is a mental disorder.
The proponents of the view that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality argue for the elimination ofany reference to homosexuality in a manual of psychiatric disorders because it is scientifically incorrect, encouragesan adversary relationship between psychiatry and the homosexual community, and is misused by some peopleoutside of our profession who wish to deny civil rights to homosexuals.
http://www.psychiatryonline.com/DSMPDF/DSM-II_Homosexuality_Revision.pdf
President Obama said....The repeal "will strengthen our national security and uphold (America's) ideals," . "No longer will tens of thousands of Americans in uniform be asked to live a lie."This is a moment "more than two centuries in the making," the president said. Over the course of U.S. history, "gay Americans fought just as hard (and) gave just as much to protect" the country as anyone else. "We are a nation that believes all men and women are created equal."
No, he's not normal...............Does that mean I condemn him? NO!!! Does it mean I give him a M-4 and a F-22 and say get to it.....No!!!!!
It's true Beverly,
All men and Women are created equal..............
Allowing gays in the military will not strengthen our National Security..... Some countries Especially in the Middle East may even ban our troops because of it.
Believing that gays don't have a mental disorder is a phobia.......
It's called "Notbelievinginthetruth" phobia................
Ummm, guys, is there a full moon out?
It is, as a matter of fact, but I suspect JoeCool's bigotry is a 24/7/365 thing.
It really makes no difference to 90% of America. And, homosexuals may reget this in the long run. Now, lets get back to real meaningful legislation and stop pandering to the minorities.
Really? DId YOU take that poll? I would like to peruse your methedology. I believe it to be flawed.
Slinger:
Your proof is?? Last poll (and I hate polls) put the number at over 70% of the American people favor repealing DADT. The majority of the military (currently serving) do not see a major problem with its appeal (with the exception of the some of the Marine Corp higher ups). so the bottom line is Yes, the American people do care and 70% approve of its repeal. ANd how is being able to serve your country with honesty and honor going to hurt them? They should be honored for their service. Not degraded because of some homophobes.
How long before some flaming poof gets the Matthew Shepherd treatment behind an M-1 Abrams?
Thats a Tank.
Thanks for identifying yourself as a hateful bigot. It's important to know who we're talking to. Or ignoring, as the case may be.
An M-1 Abrams is a TANK? I thought it was a 3-peckered-goddamnit all this time. Thanks for taking us to school this morning, dude!
Welcome to all the senators who just arrived in the 20th century..
Seeing as nothing needs to be changed... i see it done in 4 weeks ! Start to finish ... this makes John McCain look like a complete idiot ...but we all knew that beforehand ....lol
I believe that we need to hold all congress and sentors to the same levels as they do for all americans.
That is for heath care, retirement, etc. They pay them selfs and make behind closed door deals.
All the self serving @#^! remember you are to be for the people by the people.
Look at the United States as one and not just what is good for yourselfs. This is why this county is going to HELL...
I know I'm off topic. Is Juven a chihuahua?? I miss the gang and eric from salinas too.
Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
I don't want to give the gang too much credit... but... Juven doesn't have enough neurons firing to run with the little doggies! ;0)
Wishing you a Merry Christmas & Happy Happy New Year as well!
PS: Eric - if you're peeking... drop by and let us know your alright!
jael-1939284
I know I'm off topic. Is Juven a chihuahua?? I miss the gang and eric from salinas too.
Juven is a lot of things. Though a patriotic American is not one of them.
Happy Holidays
OK, I know none of y'all have ever been in a real combat unit..but.............
there's no Red Cross on the Front Lines, and limited supplies of Blood, Plasma, etc
in fact, when they run low, they just get blood from whoever's around, like on that
episode of MASH.
Well Homos can't donate blood, legally anyway, unless they've been celibate since 1977...
don't blame me, blame the Red Cross.
Frank (ABnegative) Drackman
just another example of homophobia. There are pathogens in hetero blood too. HIV doesn't discriminate.
They don't actually, and I donate every 60-90 days...:)
thats a "smiley face" on its side:)
Frank,
You really have gone around the bend. I am willing to bet that there is not one combat vet sitting is a fox hole under a fire fight asking if the person in that hole with him is gay or not. There is not one Navy Sailor aboard a ship that has had a on board fire ask if the person help hold the high pressure hose to keep it from taking your head off is gay or not. There is no military pilot asking if his wing man is gay or not. You are a perfect example of what is wrong with this country. I hope your blood is labeled so people can avoid your bigoted infection.
saneisafaggot-koksucker banned, rereg of zappers, others.
First, like every other PC group, gays don't want equality, they want advantage.
Second, the "study" they performed wherein they stated that those in the military were OK with gays was a pure raw propaganda lie, just as the "study" which says Americans are OK with TSA tyranny at airports.
Third, there isn't a single claim that gays can make about it being "natural" that a child molester can't make. I pity them for having such a warped genetic makeup. I don't think they should be beaten, harassed, etc. But I don't think others should be forced to accept it IN THEIR FACE as perfectly natural and normal either. It's not.
Fourth, it will be shoved down the soldiers throat with all of the problems and costs being whitewashed for the sake of political correctness. That's what they did when they let women in the regular army. There are all kinds of problems associated with that, but the average American is oblivious to them.
A soldier gets a lot of things shoved down his throat. It's the nature of the job. But we ought not shove any more than we have to, lest they start to puke. It's just not right to use these brave, self sacrificing men for social experiments.
OK liberal bigots. Start calling me names and using logical fallacies. It would be nice, however, if at least ONE of you would counter with an intelligent argument.
No names needed. I think people see for themselves what you are. All they want is to be able to serve this country with pride and honor honestly. They love this country as much as anybody on this board and are not afraid to prove it by putting their own lives on the line. In my opinion that demands respect. Nothing else matters.
"This is a very, very significant statement on civil rights and treating people based on their character and their performance rather than on some arbitrary distinction."
Steny Hoyer, speaking about repeal of DADT.
Arbitrary distinction?? Since when is deviant behavior an "arbitrary distinction" in our society? Perhaps we should also ignore the deviancy of child molesters and treat them according to their character and performance on the job – jobs like school teachers maybe. Sure, let's let Mr. Jones the child molesting teacher take little Sally by the hand and have his way with her. After all, by all accounts Mr. Jones is a man of fine character and does his job quite well. Who knew (and who cared) that he was a closet pervert.
Homosexuality is the least efficient evolutionary survival mechanism one can imagine. If we were all gay, there wouldn't be too many babies being born and the risk of our species eventually disappearing from this good earth would increase substantially. From that perspective, homosexuality is clearly deviant behavior. And those engaging in deviant behavior have no claim on equal participation in institutions developed by an overwhelmingly hetrosexual (i.e. non-deviant) society.
We have no obligation to embrace those with characteristics that are not only inimical to our survival, but repugnant to the values of many as well. It's one thing to tolerate the homosexuality in our midst by opening institutions to those who prudently conceal their affliction – which is what DADT did. But it's quite another thing to legitimize this abject deviancy by conveying full participation to those who openly flaunt their differences – which is what the repeal of DADT will do.
DADT was not a civil rights issue, it was not a human rights issue. It was a common sense approach to addressing a difficult problem, and an approach that implicitly encompassed both tolerance and compassion. I have guarded optimisim in the ability of our military leadership to apply their traditional "can do" attitude and conduct their business in accordance with the new rules of the game. But repealing DADT is another example of political correctness run amok, and it just made their job harder than need be.
Psychology doesn't consider homosexuality to be deviant behavior. Your whole argument falls to the ground with that one fact.
Funny you should mention that John. Psychology did consider homosexuality to be deviant behavior until they caved under pressure. from the homosexual community. Many countries still think of homosexuals as mental deviants. The fact remains that every claim a homosexual can make for it being natural can also be made about child molestation, incest, and bestiality. They all happen in nature, they all show a strong genetic propensity, and none of them can be really cured. Certainly, some participants can and do abstain, although frequently with some difficulty. So tell me, other than legality as dictated by cultural moors, what's the difference?
For starters animals and children by definition can't give proper consent and in addition homosexuality doesn't carry the serious biological consequences of incest. Those are big deals.
Homosexuality carries the most serious biological consequences there are - non proliferation. Homosexuals cannot reproduce. With incestual sex one at least has a CHANCE of a viable child. And animals are property. We don't have to ask them anything. I'm glad for that. I can't see asking Bessie if she's willing to be a steak tomorrow. So again, we are back to the caveat "other than legality as dictated by cultural moors". Other than that, there is no difference?
Homosexuals can and do reproduce, just not directly with each other, dumbass.
Paul-977599 said:
"Homosexuals can and do reproduce, just not directly with each other, dumbass."
Why must you resort to ad hominem logic? Are you so desperate to negate an argumentthat your mind considers an attack on the person as a logical argument? Are you simply frustrated because you have no intelligent argument? Have you no self restraint? Does anyone not agreeing with you on any topic automatically become a "dumbass", or are you hypersensitive to any one denigrating homosexuality?
Your argument is a red herring logical fallacy attempting to divert attention from the fact that homosexuals cannot reproduce. Re-defining reproduction to include outside assistance and genetic material other than the partners at hand may be a sound argument in YOUR mind. I'm afraid it simply will not suffice with anyone possessing forensic skills.
Please try again, without the logical fallacies.
Dumbass Loominator: If you have a lesbian couple who are friends with a male gay couple, who all would like to be parents, then they all physically possess the same ability to reproduce as heterosexuals.
An individual heterosexual is incapable of procreation. It is a naturally cooperative effort and enterprise.
Homosexuals through out history, who have been desperate to reproduce, simply faked heterosexuality long enough to get what they wanted. I would guess your partner is one.
"Homosexuals can and do reproduce, just not directly with each other,"
Clever attempt to ignore the fact that he answered your question. Leave off one word and Paul has told you everything you asked.
Still, if the shoe fits...
What a crock - where has the leadership been for the last 23 months. All this legislation is getting passed now because they know in January it all has a 'snowball's chance'.
And your point is.......?
But it is getting passed!!!
Barney Frank for Sec Def!!!!!!!
He's a better man that you.
And a better linguist than you, Rich!
Sec Def= Sek-wa-tery of De-Fenth
I think this is the worst piece of legislation in our countries military history. The politicians not once cared what the Military person thought of this. I do know one thing that these individuals should have to sign paperwork that if they contract the AIDS virus that the military and the government will not be held responsible for their medical care. Also, I do not believe that they will be safe from harm.
Ummm I don't have a problem with the lesbos...especially the ones that don't look lesbo
Amazing............
I post a comment and the gays and Northern Elitist Liberals shut it right on down.......
Incredible......So much for freedom of speech.....I guess they don't believe in that either.
The First Amendment states that CONGRESS shall make no law preventing free speech. MSNBC ain't congress. I've seen enough of your psychotic bile already! You, sir, are a 33rd degree a$$h@le!!
Why thank you.......
Don't defend my right to speak......
Just remember Communism/Fascism has it's price.....You'll pay soon enough
I love when fascist aunts talk dirty :)
I don't have to give you freedom of speech...but I will...so long as you grant me the freedom to say, "You're an idiot."
I'LL pay!! Who's coming to collect? YOU? Come and get it dumbass!
Looks like the lefty collapse cowards are at it today.
They just CANNOT handle the truth.
Yo, Proud! The offer I made to Cool and Drackman goes for you, too!
Auntie, I've got 12 inches just waiting for you...
MY FOOT!!!
Ha!HA!
You wanna go through life known as "Stumpy", be my guest!!
CHILDREN!!! PLAY NICE!!!
I think this could work out if they waited until the year 3000 to start this thing. USMC 1950-54