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Last week, when the Senate failed to move forward on a bill that would have phased out the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy, it looked like the end of the road for advocates of repeal.
But on Saturday, a GOP filibuster of the legislation was broken by a wider-than-anticipated margin, with six Republicans joining 57 Democrats to push forward a bill to end the ban on gays and lesbians serving openly in the U.S. military.
Backers of the repeal pulled off a last-minute legislative maneuver to separate the repeal from a larger Defense Authorization bill, which contained other controversial items that drew GOP criticism. That standalone bill passed the House last week and won the approval of GOP holdouts in the Senate who had objected to Democrats’ handling of debate over the defense funding measure.
Ultimately, Republican Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, Scott Brown of Massachusetts, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, George Voinovich of Ohio, and Mark Kirk of Illinois voted for repeal.
One Democrat who opposes repeal of the ban, newly-elected Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia, did not vote on Saturday.
Thirty-three Republicans opposed the motion to move forward on the bill.
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a leading opponent of repeal, warned shortly before the vote that “elites” would celebrate the end of “DADT” without understanding its consequences for the armed forces.
During the debate over repeal, McCain pointed to the concerns of some military commanders that a change in the policy during wartime could jeopardize the cohesion of combat units.
“I hope that when we pass this legislation that we will understand that we are doing great damage,” he said. “And we could possibly – and probably – as the Commandant of the Marine Corps said … harm the battle effectiveness that is so vital to the survival of our young men and women in the military.
The full repeal is now expected to easily pass the Senate this afternoon. It will then have to be “certified” by the Pentagon and the White House before going into effect.
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Oh Happy Days!!!
It's about time this travesty finally came to an end once and for all! Can't wait until the final vote @ 3:00pm est!
And thank you to the Republican Senators who crossed the aisle!! Even you Mark Kirk who I VOTED against! ;0)
PS: Extra special shout out to Joe Lieberman for breaking ranks with his BFF McGeezer and doing the RIGHT thing!
Happy days, indeed!
Another promise kept, and another step towards equal protection under the law. As a Veteran myself, I send special thanks to all those willing to stand up and do the right thing.
Senator Lieberman did a tremendous job with this. Tremendous. Thanks as well to President Obama who insisted that this legislation be brought to the floor. Vote is @ 3:00.
Senator McCain - Barack Obama beat you again, just like 2008. Deal with it.
Good one Pat! ZING! lol
What a bitter, bitter old man who yells at pidgeons on park benches the one time Maverick has become!
I am an Army Veteran. You don't need to know my sexual preference. I don't want to know your sexual preference.
The first night at basic training I entered a shower with 20 other nude men. There was one open shower room. Two walls had shower heads every 3 feet apart. This is the norm in the Army. We showered, dressed and groomed ourselves in open rooms with other guys all around. I never wondered if someone was gay. I didn't care as long as I wasn't propositioned or touched. I think that it would have been weird if another guy was staring at my body while showering.
I think the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is perfect but it has worked. The military isn't like anything else. The lifestyle is tough and very demanding.
The Don't Ask Don't Tell policy allowed straight men like me to serve in the Army without anyone asking who or what I was having sex with. It protected me. It also allowed gays and lesbians to serve in the Army. I don't need to know their business and they don't need to know mine. If I want to sleep with three women one night and a man the next night then it is no one's business except for mine. I don't care if someone is gay. It doesn't matter to me. It is the character of the individual that matters. Most soldiers feel the same way that I do because we see the scumbags that serve along side of us. I would rather have 20 loyal gay men in my unit than 20 lazy irresponsible straight men who don't do their jobs. I really don't care if you are gay, straight or asexual. I don't want to know. I don't need to know. It is not my business.
Don't Ask Don't Tell is great in that it keeps sexuality where it should be - personal. I understand that in the past the military broke down barriers such as race and women in combat but sexuality is different. There are things that I don't need to know and sexual preference is one of them. Yes it is sad that gays cannot serve "openly" but straight people don't really serve "openly" either. Sex wasn't really talked about unless 2 or 3 guys or gals were in a small group talking and then it was a personal conversation. It isn't like straight men are mounting the ladies on the front line or that the Army passed out conjugal visitations to straight soldiers. No one asked.
Keep sexuality a non-issue. Keep Don't Ask Don't Tell legal. It has worked.
If DADT is overturned then look for the military constructing separate barracks for gay and lesbian soldiers.
@duncncl
You are right, its none of your business. So stop making it an issue. Repeal DADT.
By making it an issue and supporting DADT you are endangering the lives of our troops by dismissing qualified medical and professional personnel.
REPEAL DADT.
You are creating mental stress and burdens that need not be present. It becomes a problem when career military families aren't allowed to be notified when their loved ones are dead or sick or injured, or in need of medical assistance because of fear or being outed.
REPEAL DADT
You're right: I really don't care if you are gay, straight or asexual. I don't want to know. I don't need to know. It is not my business. SO STOP MAKING IT YOUR BUSINESS!
Make sexuality a non-issue REPEAL DADT.
"PS: Extra special shout out to Joe Lieberman for breaking ranks with his BFF McGeezer and doing the RIGHT thing!"
No, he actually did the LEFT thing, lol.
duncancl,
Thank you for your comments.
Heck, who knows - maybe Obama will have as hard a time implementing this as he has had in closing GITMO and trying terrorists in civilian courts.
Seems like common sense prevails over idealistic social agendas on a regular basis when faced with reality.
Thanks for your service too.
to duncancl- I read your post with interest but you clearly are missing the point. At events, straight soldiers can bring their loved ones, gays cannot without fearing reprisals. Removing DADT is not going to have gays flaunting their sexuality - just being equal. We have already given them permission to be injured equally on the battlefield; die equally on the battlefield; come home with equal despression. It is only fair they be able to serve equally.
Duncancl,
So, when you say that "it keeps sexuality where it should be - personal", you are saying that you have never revealed to any of the men and women who you serve with that you are a heterosexual? If your sexuality is personal, then that means you don't tell people about it. Right? Or is it only gay folks who have to keep it personal, while you get to tell everyone you please about your sexual proclivities? Be honest.
What does the old coot thing is going to happen? It is just like same-sex marriage. The conservative right-winged christians can never say how their marriages will be harmed.
I wish he would detail for us when and why the world will explode because gay soldiers can be themselves........
He brags about being a POW and yet gay soldiers scare the pee out of him?
p.s. sorry about the miniature script. i have NO idea how i did that!
duncancl, I think the point you missed is that nobody is required by law to end your military career if they discover that you're straight. And nobody can "out" you for being straight either.
What a wonderful Christmas gift! Our country has finally realized that who we love makes no difference in how we defend this great land. For 15+ years I have been in a relationship with someone who served our country with pride, but behind the closet door out of fear that he would be asked to leave the one thing he truly enjoyed--Representing our Country. Each and every time he got deployed to defend this great land, we said our good byes at the front door and I prayed for the day he would come back in one piece. I never got to go to the base and share that last hug or word of encouragement that the straight families got. Instead, I sat at home or in my office saying a prayer that he would come home safe and in one piece. The same scenario played out when his flights would arrive back from defending our country. I would patiently wait for the call to come and get him at the PX or some other location on base. Our joy of being back wtih each other would have to wait until we got home. We never got to hug, hold a sign, or any of those other things like the straight families did....why--"because the military has treated our gay and lesbian soldiers as non existent" No More!
Today, history was made and I will proudly stand next to my partner and tell him "I love you--and hurry home" just like eveyone else. I will shed my tears in public and share my joy when he comes home, I will be able to walk into the officer's club with him for awards and dinners, and for once we will be the just like the Smiths and the Jones, a military family, accepted for who we are.
There wont be any special barracks being built for the "rainbow group", they have already showered next to you, jumped in a bunker hole with you, ran for a fox hole behind you, served as your medic and so much more--the only thing that will happen now is they wont have to hide and lie--two things the military forbids!
First duncancl says:
Then duncand says:
Were you telling the truth in your first paragraph or your fourth paragraph?
When the military becomes self-funded, then you can make any bigoted rules ya like.
Reason-11551, the fact that you used the word "perversion" five times in your post suggest that you fail to understand that others can have inclinations other than the ones you were born with that are as natural to them as yours are to you. I, too, hope that God will have mercy on the United States, especially on folks like you who have such disdain for other flavors of His creation.
As a hetero disabled veteran, I find this to be a very proud day in the history of my great nation!
Who really cares if this was repealed or not?
You're a dinosaur and your views soon to be extinct.
Hey Duncncl--
Where in America (other than the military) have you heard it legal to fire someone solely because they are gay? DADT may have worked for you because it gave you the illusion that gay people who do not reveal their sexual preferences were protected. What happens though (as it so often did) when someone was outed by another because of a personal vandetta, inadvertence or some other reason? An investigation ensues and rather than perjure themselves many simply affirm their homosexuality or fail to cooperate at which point they are discharged. A straight person, however, by sole virtue of their sexual preference remain untouched even if, by comparison, their wilder heterosexual promiscuity could be more injurious through the spread of AIDs or some other STD. Sounds fair? The military might be unique. But its uniqueness does not mean that it is excluded from ensuring Constitutional protections.
The Majority of The American People won this because it wasn't about big money!!!!
The Majority will never win a debate with Big Money..... unless things get worse before they get better!!!
The the Job Creators got a big X-mas Gift....Now they have no more excuses for high unemployment!!!!
Conservatives, communicate with your elected officials, tell them you want legislation that allow heteros to leave the military, with out prejudice.
The legislation should so specify, that the military may not hold any person past the end of their enlistment. They will try to do this as enlistments fall off.
They can be held long enough to reinstate the draft and train the influx of draftees, but no longer than 8 months..
Add the names of the republicans that voted for this bill you knpow the usual suspects, Snowe, Collins Brown Lugar.
No need to wait for the primaries to start hammering on them, also the lame duck we need to track them after they get out if they start a business, boycott them, keep them and their families in the light of the things they have done.
It is time to make the lame ducks pay a price, also.
The Military chnaged a basic premise of an all volunteer military in mid stream after the volunteers were in the military, it is only fair to give them the opportunity to leave.
I confess, that I do see of humor in homosexuals and libs being drafted into the miliatary, a place where they have always wanted to run their mouths about, but never be there. A two year military obligation for all able men and women.
I want to pull my lawn chair up and watch the libs and homosexuals rioting in the streets when the draft is announced.
Yet, one more time the libbies get bit in the fanny, by the law od unintended consequences.
Big win for the President. The tax cuts - Bi-partisan presidential win for President Obama. DADT - win for President Obama with 5 GOP votes.
Now he needs START to get the tri-fecta.
Sorry, but the prez didn't have anything to do with this. As for the tax cut, he buckled on his "read my lips" pledge and the dems should be mad as hell and throw him out, just like the repubs did Bush 41. As for the tax compromise, when looking at the details, what was touted by the prez and the libs was the extended unemployment benefits. Turns out, they failed to tell people that there really is no additional benefits. If you ran through your 99 weeks or your 60 weeks, then this bill helps you not at all. It only pays unemployment for those who haven't used up those benefits. Not much of a victory for the libs. As to the 2% break in the SS tax, well, all that does is bankrupt the system that much faster. Ever wonder where the money is going to come from to pay the benefits if less money is being paid in? So, all in all, more of a victory for the repubs and another major broken promise of Obama.
Trifecta? You forgot that Obama's 1.3 trillion dollar Obamnabus bill got taken off the table by Dingy Harry. Another defeat for Obama. START, we'll see what happens there. Not likely anything will be done before the new Congress. It can't be good for the US because it is only being brought up as a last minute "shove it" to the American people piece of legislation. Why not wait until the this has been thoroughly looked at and debated? The answer is obvious. Like Obamacare, nothing this group of thugs does is above board and legit. Heck, they refused to even consider a budget before the elections. The reason for that is their total contempt for the American people. Otherwise, they would have brought it up, said this is why it is great, voted on it, and revel in smothering the conservs with their thoughtful, superior budgeting.
Oh well, the beat goes on!
witchrunner, the START treaty is hardly being brought up at the "last minute". Obama signed the thing in April! The treaty is 20 pages long, with 160 pages of notes. Any senator should be able to read through that in a day, and there's no excuse why they shouldn't have already by now!
It's absolutely shameful that something as important to our nation and the world's security as START, which has had uncontested bi-partisan support throughout its history, has been relegated to the level of a political football by the GOP. It's even worse that their tactics have folks like you parroting their nonsense.
I would also like to choose to see this as, not a political victory but a victory and giant step forward, for the citizens of this great nation. We can get along and work together!
A major treaty in a lame duck congress? Are you nuts? These people were voted out for a reason. Get real.
21st: Signed in April and brought up here at the end of December and it isn't "last minute?" "It all depends on what the definition of 'is' is." Give me a break! Why wasn't it brought up in April? May? June? July? August? September? October? or November? Excuse me, let's wait for the next to the last minute! See! Are you that dumb? Just asking. Maybe you can give a logical explanation as to why the dems waited until mid-December to bring it up? I'd love to hear it!
The logical explanation is simple: Bring it up too early, and Republicans could complain it's being rushed to the floor without time for consideration. Bring it up too late, and there might be just enough crazy Republicans in the next Senate who would actually block ratification of something with such universal support just for their own stupid vision of a political win. And would put the security of the nation and the world at risk without shame. Party first, country last... the Republican way.
Maybe you can give a logical explanation as to why six (I prepeat, SIX) republicans voted yes? I'd love to hear it!
witchrunner,
Bringing up the START Treaty at this time is the direct result of Republican partisanship.
Reid wanted to bring the treaty to the floor in August, but Republicans claimed that would be 'politicizing' it just before the midterms.
After the midterms, Reid brought it up again, but Republicans claimed that the tax extensions must be addressed before anything else.
Now that the tax issue has been settled, Republicans claim that they don't have time to read the treaty - even though they've had access to it since April.
They also say that it would be disrespectful of Christmas to stay in session and work. (Does that mean firefighters are disrespectful of Christmas? Soldiers? Emergency room staff?)
Do you see a trend here? Because I do, and it's a shameful one.
Witchrunner--
Just another Fox, Limbaugh operative that don't know s**t! START was signed in April and every time it has been considered for debate on the floor Committee chairman, Kerry granted Republican extensions. Their first extension request for the summer recess was granted. Then they requested yet another delay prior to the midterms because "they did not want to politicize START". (Bald-faced liars and scumbags that they are). That was granted. Now they claim that they have not had time to read it and its too important to rush through. And, you have the nerve to parrot that BS in support of the lame-brained Republican excuses. I know facts are stubborn, sometimes non-existent things for you and your gullible ilk, Witch. But, please understand that the world consist of more than the horses**t that scrolls across on the Fox Noise tagline. Dumba$$!
What has America been waiting for? We've obviously not been regarding our own constitution for a long time: women serve, minorities serve, those with disabilities serve. These gay folks go to fight and die for people who would rather have them lie and serve stripped of integrity or not at all. It's not even like the military is a church or anything like or close to that.
I will go further and state that anyone not donning the uniform that lets another die protecting him/her while denying their right to serve with honesty should be flogged in my own private opinion.
Great post J Richter. Our United States Senate did the right thing here. Both parties. My hat is off to Senator Lieberman. I'm heartbroken about The DREAM Act though. Heartbroken.
Me too! A word of advice, don't visit the FR thread about it from earlier... I've never seen so much hate & racism in my life!
My hope is the Hispanic community is playing close attention and will voice their displeasure at the ballot box in 2012.
Feisty, I did go in there and said it was very sad that this didn't pass. It was a heartless thing to do for all those who voted against it - D's & R's.
I appreciated Senator Reid's eloquent closing remarks before the vote, even though it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that it wouldn't pass. Senator Durbin as well.
But today we celebrate DADT - a historic day. Historic.
Yes Pat. Credit goes to everyone who voted for it. But let's not fall for brush strokes on this one.
- 56 of 57 dems voted for it. 1 didnt vote at all (Manchin of WV). His constituents are against but at least he knows better than to vote against what he probably knew to be correct.
- 2 of 2 independent
- 6 of 42 republicans. God bless them because the pressure is greater than on a dem that did.
You just cant pretend not to notice the truth on this civil rights issue.
It is wonder to me that the ruse politicians use to justify their personal opinions. When their constituents tell them to vote against a public option, they vote against is, when their constituents tell them to vote to give the top richest 2 % a bigger tax cut than they will get, they vote for it. When their constituents tell them to vote for clean air, water, and environment they vote AGAINST IT. It is no wonder to me actually because they always vote on who is supplying them with their money and power, AND BELIEVE ME IT ISN'T THEIR CONSTITUENTS BACK HOME. This DADT fiasco is just another of their lies to the public. SOME very highly placed CLOSET HOMO'S do not want to be seen condoning EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE. Some of the biggest lier's AND HOMOSEXUALS are "very religious people". Mr McCain spent a few years in a POW camp, sure, he came home and married one of the richest women in America, do you think he has had anything but the best of life since? His opposition to this bill in particular is amazing to me in that he has surrounded himself with "special people" all his life, now he refuses them the ability to serve their country while acknowledging WHO they really are. Honesty is something this man has forgotten a very long time ago. Once a proud man has sunk to being just another racist bigot incapable to reconcile with his own soul. A PITIFUL SPECIMEN OF A MAN, BUT I HAVE NO PITY FOR HIM, HE IS LONG PAST HIS RELEVANCE TO OUR SOCIETY. EXIT WHILE HE CAN WITH SOME SEMBLANCE OF WHAT LITTLE HONER HE HAS LEFT !
Feisty Redhead, I assume your comment of "hatred and racism" about comments on another thread regarding the Dream Act are with poor language. Perhaps there is "Hatred, fear and xenophobia," but don't bastarize and hyperbolize the word and act of racism like so many do today. Hispanic is not a race.
Great post, J. Richter!!!
Thats Right, the will of the few supesedes the correctness of the many. Thats the loser party at work.
The correctness of many? You smug sob. I guess you are too dumb to read polls showing 70% favor the repeal and the survey of the military said the same. Guess intelligence won out over arrogance. Believe me, the Republicans are going to get thrown out in 2012 because they will only piss off the people with their rhetoric. It will become apparent that our new Speaker of House "the weeping boner" has nothing to help the average American and the Republicans will pay big time. Can't wait....
Glen~ We can only HOPE the Republicans get thrown out. The sad truth is that I guess because of our substandard education system we've got going on here...the American people are really too dumb to realize what the Republicans and Tea Bags stand for. The only ones who should be voting republican are the top wealthiest people...because that';s who they stand for. And Tea Bags and Republicans obviously failed their history classes that taught about seperation of church and state....oh, and science class when they were taught evolution. Even though the 'pubs and bags are openly standing on their soapboxes and expressing their verson of "the facts" of history & science, the dummy voters gave them their votes! Face it, Americans are idiots and we're getting just what we voted for...complete chaos and idiocy. We either need a revolution or we need to think about what country will be best to emmigrate to....some place that cares about the majority of its citizens...not the minority wealthiest. Our state of affairs in this country is just plain sad. We are on our way to becoming third world, and nobody is doing anything to prevent it from happening.
Well Chuckie, when the military becomes self-funded they can create any bigoted rule they want.
Jen1234, I could not have said it better. You hit the nail smack-dab on the head. Great comment, Thanks!
Jen 1234, you are so right. For many politicians (as you said, the Republicans and Tea Baggers mainly), ignorance is bliss. Let's not tell the people that other countries have surpassed us on just about all fronts. Where is our high-speed rail, health care system, first class education system? Our infrastructure is crumbling and we are way behind in our schools in math and sciences. China owns our debt and their business is booming. Meanwhile, our politicians are living high on the hog, have superb healthcare, fat pensions, and any number of other benefits that their constituents are paying for. Ignorance is bliss indeed.
served four years . didnt have to think who was in the foxhole. jen1234 have you left yet. have you been on the line where this freedom is kept? . you join uncle sam and do what is good for the whole. you step up and raise your hand in allegiance to this country,and give your personal preferances a leave of absense. because you no longer have the civil rights we are born with. the democracy thing ends when in uniform , just do what is asked of you that is the only thing ya gotta know.
well when these idiot congressional senators do get to the next election they will be gone. We are taking names and will remember in 2012 for sure.
collins, snow and Murkskumski will get voted out. We dont need idiots without brains in our system. But we do have more than our share. I cant believe that Harry Ried is still upright, I hope that the people in nevada are really proud of this skumbag. What the hell are they thinking.
Speaking of idiots... you do realize that Lisa Murkowski & Harry Reid were just re-elected last month for another 6 YEAR term dontcha? lol
rbt,
I doubt that you're right.
Over 70% of Americans support the repeal of DADT. It's the politically smart thing to do. No one will lose their job over this - unless they vote against it.
rbt,
You speak just like someone who never served and that comes from someone who spent 22+ years in uniform. You're a coward like the 33 senators who couldn't vote to repeal the law and that includes John McCain. Good riddance to DODT!
Hello, you need some education. Murkowski beat your Tea Bag hero Joe Miller as a write-in-candidate. You think she would get booted out in 6 years because of this? You need help. Merry Christmas.
I find it highly amusing that a privileged old white guy with a handful of houses and a second wife young enough to be his daughter would cry out against all the "elites" in this country. If John McCain doesn't define the the term "elite" I'm not sure who does.
If Israel -- with one of the toughest, tenacious and, dare I say, macho -- militaries in the world can allow gays and lesbians to openly serve (without ill effect, I would add) so can the United States.
Gay men and lesbians born in this country are Americans. They deserve the right to serve and, if necessary, die honorably for the country we all love.
Keb Mo has a song that is about "we all bleed the same and we all hurt the same". McCain needs to have it on his phonograph. The one with the big horn and the dog listening.
You hit the nail on the head. John McCain defines elite. Born to privilege, educated at the Naval Academy, marries into money and now he is the old fart standing on his porch screaming at the kids to get off his lawn. I respect his service to his country, but, he fails to recognize that homosexuals have served this country with great distinction since Lexington Green. Heck, some of his fellow POWs presumably were gay and they were just as heroic as he was. Get over it Senator McCain. You have done enough damage releasing that nimrod Sarah Palin on the American public.
Senator McCain should really take a look at himself in the mirror. Eight years ago, I would have voted for him to be president. He was a man of conviction and had the gumption to stand-up what he believed in even when it went against his own party. Now, he has adopted a philosophy of slash and burn. Hopefully, he awakes before his too late and realizes his work is not pleasing in the sight of God before he perishes.
I commend those senators who voted to get this bill advanced in the senate. Years ago the argument was made that African-Americans and other ethnic minorities would destroy the army. We have seen how that works out. This generation of young Americans are more familiar with gay-lesbian lifestyle than any other generation in the past. I think all will work out and this move will only strengthen the military, not weaken it.
Senator McCain said today was a sad day. Can you imagine a United States Senator saying that over this legislation? He is the one who comes out looking the worst. His judgment is really off the charts on some many things. Was he ever moderate? If so, it was a long long time ago.
McCain needs to turn his GPS on & find one of his houses and hole up in it for about 20 years.
This is a very Happy Day for me! DODT was repealed and the Dream Act otherwise known as Nightmare Act failed!
Very wise comments, King Solomon. Lets all remember that McCain was FOR repeal of DADT before he decided to run for POTUS and before political analysts told him that he needed all the hyper right wingnuts to get him the White House. Pandering is being a Maverick??? No, pandering is being a hypocrite. And I will never forgive him for Palin. She will cause more damage to this country than any discomfort that integration of the military could ever create.
It's about time!!
As a Vietnam Era retiree, with 25 years of service, I applaud all of those 63 senators with enough backbone to face down the loud, nonsensical, retoric from the opponents of doing away with a law that backs discrimination of those who fight for this country. No one should be denied the honor of serving the country based on discrimination of any kind.
Oh, and for McCain, the services will survive the change, no thanks to you.
Lisa Murkowski, you are worth learning the spelling of your name in the ballot. Scott Brown, if you run for national office, you will get my vote in a heart beat.
I'm surprised Scott Brown voted the way he did. After all, the man did run with the support of the Tea Party here in Mass.
The Tea Bags do not control conscience. It was the right thing to do and there is nothing religious about it. I mention religiosity because so many Tea Bags cite religion as their rational for many stances. Of course he would vote in favor of the repeal, he was elected to do the right thing for the right reasons. He is not apparently a robotron of the Tea Bags.
He'll be happy to hear that, since he'll be out of a job by then. He's a one-termer here for sure.
Apparently Mr. Brown realizes that his election last year was more or less a fluke, and the the constituents he serves are among the most tolerant in the nation. People in New England, and Mass in particular, have a cultural history of religious and other kinds of intolerance going back to the Puritans, who demanded that everyone live and believe as they did (too bad for those ladies in Salem). I believe this is why we are so tolerant today-- we have intolerance in our past, in our "cultural memory" and we DON"T LIKE IT!!!
 I love Snow and Collins. Republicans that vote straight Democrat. Of course look at their state, welfare USA.
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You folks like to lie to yourselves factless. And you keep repeating it to each other uncorrected on your blogs. The real welfare states are those southern states and Alaska that receive more in Federal dollars than they contribute. And the states handing out to them are states like NY and CA that give out over $1.2 for every dollar they get back.
Don't leave out Texas as one of the welfare states since they too get back more federal money than they pay in.
Wrong. It's the red states that suck all of the federal money FROM the blue ones. And Snowe and Collins hardly vote "straight Democrat" given that the Republicans have been filibustering countless items in the Senate for the past two years. That took Snowe and Collins' assistance.
You might try reading more.
Silly kids, facts are for us socialists. Baggers don't need no steenkin' facts.
You're not "Pro America", your pro self. Your whole party is. You are the most selfish people the world has ever known. Even the word "conservative" defines you: keep it for yourself. At the same time, the word "liberal" means generous and giving. Your group of backward-thinking individuals miss it time after time on every important issue. So you just keep calling us the "Democrat" party as if it's some sore of insult, and we'll just call you what you are: "Conservatives".
Rick.... Can you send me a check for $4700. I just got my insurance bill and cannot afford it. have been out of work for quite a while already. If you are the very generous guy that I beleive that you are I am sure that it will be no issue to you to send me the funds so my family can have health insurance. The wife needs to go to a doctor soon as she is not feeling well and I fear the worse. Thanks for helping out.
At long last America is taking a crucial step towards living up to the egalitarian ideals of our nation. As a retired Air Force Officer I am very pleased that now so many patriotic Americans who serve our country, or have served, or would serve, can step out of the shadows and join the rest of us. This is a great day indeed.
As a person who has not only served, but has served in combat areas I say about time. And to the people on here posting this was a mistake I really hope you have served yourself. How anyone in there right mind can be mad about dadt who hasn't served should be ashamed of yourself, these people put there life on the line to make sure you get your freedoms, and then you ask them to lie about themselves.
Chuck you, obviously, either haven't seen the polls or don't believe them. The American People OVERWHELMINGLY support repeal of DADT. AND, even those in the Military support of this repeal. How can you say "the will of the few". Â
It is so typical of conservatives to believe that... 'if they say it, it is true.' And, who are you to say what is "correct" or "not correct". As far as I know, that is left to each individual and their God.
rbt99 you are really full of seething hatred and this during Christmastime! Gays have served proudly in the military and stood by the USA for many years, they like all service people deserve our respect and gratitude for protecting this great country. rbt99 have YOU served in the military? Extreme hatred is not good for your health you should ratchet it down a bit!
"Ultimately, Republican Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, etc.........voted for repeal."
Yeah! Our Rebublican Senators listened to us (Dems in Maine) and did the right thing! They are hated by their party as a whole but loved here in Maine by both parties.
As a former Marine and close friend of many who still serve, this legislation will hurt, not help. I hope the gays feel good serving the country while at the same time seriously hurting the combat effectiveness, and morale of the troops. With that being said is it possible there time spent in the military can be considered serving? Which side would they be serving? I am so glad I am no longer active duty if this is where the worlds best military is going.... Gay
Did the world's best military go black also since the decades blacks began to serve?
Did the military go women?
Unless you believe there will be gay proselytizing of the adults that make up the military and eventually more until most of the straight ones will turn gay? If that is an issue, then its not a problem in the military and going and stopping it there makes no sense (the military would simply reflect their country). Or you aren't really thinking these things beyond typing them?
I didn't know there was such a thing as a former Marine. I'm a non-serving Marine and I don't agree with you. Marines are disciplined and they follow orders, they will follows these. It's been 38 years since I had thing exploding around me. But I don't recall worrying about anything other than staying alive.
Chris in NC - you clearly have never served in the military. Gays have served in the military for as long as there has been a military. They have served proudly defending our country without being able to every say who they are. You are an embarrassment. I can positively say that if you had ever served you had gays serving by you who deserve the same respect as every other soldier.
chrisNC, were you drummed out of the corps?
Cite some specific examples please.
They're Americans, ya DOLT! You have to have someone tell you what side they're serving? They're serving the same side they're serving now.
And the world breathes a collective sigh of relief.
The Marine Corp will have NO PROBLEM with this because they will be ordered to have NO PROBLEM with this. Therefore, there will be NO PROBLEM with this. RIGHT?
Thank God for common sense...One + one does = progress. Now maybe we can move on with life!Â
Every once in a while I am extremely proud of my country. Today is one of those days.
My thanks to those who voted with their brain and not with their brand.
Great! Now we need to stop sexual discrimination and allow men and women to shower together...
Homosexual behavior is learned early in life through emotional longing, mental habituation and sexual experimentation. Young boys who do not "measure up" to their male peers become enamored, fearful and in awe of male counterparts. The phrase that "what is exotic becomes erotic" is true for the males. These young boys, especially at the puberty phase, become stirred by what they never became themselves: confirmed in their maleness. They are targets for older male homosexuals who introduce them to male porn, early sexual experimentation and masturbation. This behavior becomes addictive and sets up a brain pattern which is difficult to overcome, like alcoholism. Â When a woman is emotionally dependent because of wounds that she has sustained, she feels as though she literally cannot exist without the object of her dependency, another woman, with whom she finds the part of the female self that she never emotionally grew into. She needs constant reassurance from the other woman, consistent displays of affection, and large quantities of time with her. In short, emotional dependency is a bit like idolatry: another person, in this case a woman, has become a sort of god.Â
Dependency remains a driving force in the male and female homosexual person's personality. Why else would those who are same-sex attracted be so unrelenting in their desire to legalize and establish homosexuality in law, religion, and society. Â Each of the populations is so needy that they cannot love in the giving husband and wife model. They can only take from their own neediness; they seek in their partners that which did not develop in themselves. Are these realities models for parenting? Should they bring children into their disordered lifestyle? The desire for children is not coming from a complementarity of love, but from a neediness that has gone unfulfilled. Should they flaunt the disordered behaviors in our military?
Regardless of the gay activism which succeeded in creating support for their agenda throughout America and in fact the secular world, the science and ethics remain constant. There is no gay gene, God tells us that homogenital sex is a moral wrong, and when we sin egregiously it affects the whole person and the world. Because of the increasing acceptance of immorality by adults, our children's future is assured of more mental physical, emotional and spiritual disease. Â Are we so jaded that good, solid citizens are willing to stifle their consciences for the popular vote? God has something to say to us. Those who practice and promote homosexual behavior have sustained an iniquity and are no longer capable of discernment. These truths are unpopular because we have lost our religion; but they are the truths.
Some authors of the Bible tell us homosexuality is a moral wrong. They are not God. We have not given up on religion or on God; rather, we have realized that the Bible is not the sole, infallible source of spiritual and moral wisdom. A complete view of the world is formed by experience, reason and conscience, as well as tradition.
No, the so-called "truths" to which you refer are unpopular because they are inconsistent with real world experience, i.e. not true.
The only positive about your comment, Barbara, is that it's so long, pedantic and discursive that no one is likely to read its entirety.
oh honey - your thinking is so sad. open your mind to differences in all people. it's a great world that God created when you do. Someday he will help you open your mind - hopefully it won't be too late when he does and you too can contribute your gifts to make it an even better place. - it's a beautiful world. good luck.
Where did you come up with this? Disneyland?
Wow. Copied and pasted that from the WikiBigot.com, did you?
Barbara - what an ignorant, unintelligent and absurd post. Not a word is true. God also says judging others is wrong but you are santimonious enough to believe you have that right. I pity you for being so uninfomed and so totally moronic. And, no Barbara, your words are not truth. They are just the lies you need to comfort you because you don't know truth.
Well, Barbara, since I believe what you wrote is a bucketful of ***p, I am on my way to hell in a handbasket. I'll see you there!
Simply put, you are ignorant and scary.
I am laughing so hard because your arguments are the best summary of every WRONG theory regarding gays and lesbians. Thanks for the laugh. Looking forward to the day when someone like you has to sign the marriage license of the man I will marry with a smug, judging, hateful look on your face. But basically, I just think you are really really funny. In fact, I suspect you are actually Jon Stewart. Peace, LOL!
Barbara - Jesus chastised the Pharises for their 'money changing ways. These were some of the same people who preached that homosexuality was wrong. Jesus taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. That does not mean you have to go to bed with them, just respect your neighbor as you would want them to respect you. The Pharises (like you) hated Jesus because he treated everyone as an equal (black, white, red, homosexual and hetersexual). You need to find Jesus or at least the wisdom and spirit that Jesus lived by.
My wife and I will pray for you!
Barbara, I have always wondered if it hurts to be as full of hate as you are. Isn't carrying that burden exhausting? You have my deepest sympathy, and I will pray for you; my God cares for everyone--- gay/straight, black/white/polked-dotted, male/female, rich/poor. Republican/Democrat, bigot/non-bigot. Have a peace-filled Christmas.
I'm embarrassed for you Barbara....
barf
God also tells us not to eat shellfish or wear clothing made from mixed fibers. Or to live in the same room with menstruating females. Literal interpretation of the Bible would make modern life nearly impossible. Instead, fundamentalists pick and choose what rules suit their cultural discriminations and use them to damage others. We need to burn them at the stake. All fundamentalists. Burned. Start with Barbara.
I've tried asking them, but they take offense.
I'm still waiting to know if its OK to play football if I wear gloves. After all, it's an abomination to touch the skin of a dead pig.
wow barbra...wow
barbara, i think you got it right .
This forum will not allow me to say what i really think of Senator McCain but one would think he would eventually realize that NOBODY cares about his opinions and that he is becoming more irrelevant on a daily basis!!!
@Doug - I have been reading the posts about the article looking for someone addressing the statements made by Senator John McCain, and I would like to make a few comments about it.
“Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a leading opponent of repeal, warned shortly before the vote that “elites” would celebrate the end of “DADT” without understanding its consequences for the armed forces.”
I find these words to be very condescending to our enlisted military. To my interpretation, he is stating that those who are “elites” (which I translate to understand as either “people who have a lot of money”, or “people who are very well educated”, or “a homosexual percentage of our nation’s public and military personnel", or “people who are just “’better’ in some way”. From which the next statement could follow through reciprocity that those in the armed forces and the small percentage of the public that oppose the measure (now, before seeing if the change in policy would actually improve the military as suggested by all branches but the Marines) are in some way now “less”.
Secondly, McCain invokes a sort of “scare-tactic” statement by implying there will be “consequences” using a very negative connotation. Do we (or he) know that this is an absolutely true statement? Well, yes and no. I am speaking here of the implementation of the policy change. Yes, there will probably be some wrinkles along the way; and, no, in that there will be by what most believe, and our military leaders have attested to, plenty of positive consequences. So, taken together, along with an examination of the outcomes of the history of integration of other population segments, one has to ask, “Does the prospect of good consequences outweigh the bad consequences over time?” According to all the above, the answer then becomes, “probably so”. I think his whole statement is just yet another example of how way out of touch with the country McCain and the whole Republican Party really is.
Next, “During the debate over repeal, McCain pointed to the concerns of some military commanders that a change in the policy during wartime could jeopardize the cohesion of combat units.”
Again, we must ask, “Is this a true statement? And again, the answer is yes and no. As I see it, if you’re in wartime you probably have more important things on your mind. I mean, “Honestly... (Shrug). Is anyone in combat really thinking about whether their combat buddy is secretly gay right now, and why? Is Senator McCain implying that our military personnel are really that insecure, a military service member of the United States?” If that is true, then we have way more important things to be concerned with, like “These people have way too much time on their hands,” which I just cannot fathom that this is the case.
And would the implementation be better made in peacetime? Well, President Bush has already stated that (paraphrasing), “This will be a war that will continue well into the future.” Possibly even a never ending war? Well, unfortunately, our economy does now depend on the “War Industry” warned to us about by our country’s forefathers, history, and past presidents; but, that’s another topic. So should we then wait another 10-15-20 years before implementation? Well, since there’s no stopping anytime soon, Carpe Diem!
And finally, would cohesion of combat units be affected? Well, yes and no. If history tells us anything, there’s probably going to be some “overly-macho-secretly-gay-curious-yet-otherwise-seen-as-straight” soldier who is going to cause trouble. I would even go so far as to foretell that the incident will probably come about as the result of an “outing” of another straight-gay military sex scandal. And then, in the end, it will sort of follow the logic of William Shakespeare’s line, “I think thou dost protest too loudly.” Of course, right-wing media, Fox News, and Sarah Palin (one of my favorites, but just for her entertainment value), will have a big time of it. We just have to accept that largely in the end most sane people will recognize it for what it was.
“I hope that when we pass this legislation that we will understand that we are doing great damage,” he said. “And we could possibly – and probably – as the Commandant of the Marine Corps said … harm the battle effectiveness that is so vital to the survival of our young men and women in the military.
Well, using the type of logic that I have above, I think you can see where I am going with this. “Cause great damage? Probably (read will) cause harm to battle effectiveness?”
Thanks for giving me a lead-in to voice what I understood as what Senator John McCain and those who voted against the repeal are really saying. Just a lot of Ouija board, political rhetoric based on a case for fear versus change. You know, just more of the usual.
P.S. I’ll be looking for a big and immediate economic turn-around in January from all the money given to the rich to create jobs and once the Republicans and Tea Party members take the House… Oh, and balance the budget without harming the middle class, too. 'Cause you know, there's nothing like losing votes in 2012 by taking money out of your constituents' pockets! I’m looking forward to them speedily following through on everything they’ve promised the American People for some time now. Maybe Senator McCain can work on that. I would definitely consider this a more important use of his time.
"This forum will not allow me to say what i really think of Senator McCain but one would think he would eventually realize that NOBODY cares about his opinions and that he is becoming more irrelevant on a daily basis!!!"
McCain's wife's opinion is so much more important. They were on different sides of the fence with this one. She was publically backing the repeal of DADT.
her opinion is only more important to you because you agree with her.
the same can be said of McCain's opinion for those that agree with him.
I will be interested to see how the "70% of the American people's support" of this social experiment goes in the next couple of years.
Being that I'm a civilian I don't have an opinion either way, I believe that military matters should be left to the military.
bicfj, don't tell any of the "right-wingers" but i am going to celebrate this historic and wonderful day with a vodka tonic!! i haven't had one this year and today is the perfect time to break loose!! :-)
1SGFitzWife4ID,
You believe that military matters should be left to the military? That flies in the face of the Constitution, which states that the President (a civilian) is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, and that the Congress (a group of civilians) is the only body that can declare war - as well as appropriate funding for the armed forces. Today's vote on DADT reinforces the notion that, because in this country the military is under civilian control, military matters are never left to the military.
Cindy McCain is a major flipflopper like her husband. She is against gay rights now. At least for this week.
Very proud of this long over-due vote to repeal the DADT law. It is disgraceful that since 1993, 13,500 men and woman were booted out of serving in the military because of this act of discrimination. I wonder if anyone in Congress, especially the coward that voted against this bill knows how many men and woman who were gay or lesbian, died while serving their country?
I am very grateful to Scott Brown from my State who had the courage to again, do the right thing. He is a man of his word!