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Subscribe to RSSFor the second straight year, the health care overhaul inspired the biggest political lie, according to the independent fact-checking Web site Politifact.
Last year, it was Sarah Palin's claim that there were "death panels" in the bill. The winner this year, is the term "government takeover" used by multiple Republicans, including incoming Speaker John Boehner.
Politifact:
In the spring of 2009, a Republican strategist settled on a brilliant and powerful attack line for President Barack Obama's ambitious plan to overhaul America's health insurance system. Frank Luntz, a consultant famous for his phraseology, urged GOP leaders to call it a "government takeover." ...
The line stuck. By the time the health care bill was headed toward passage in early 2010, Obama and congressional Democrats had sanded down their program, dropping the "public option" concept that was derided as too much government intrusion. The law passed in March, with new regulations, but no government-run plan.
But as Republicans smelled serious opportunity in the midterm elections, they didn't let facts get in the way of a great punchline. ... uttered by dozens of politicians and pundits, it played an important role in shaping public opinion about the health care plan and was a significant factor in the Democrats' shellacking in the November elections.
Second place was Rep. Michele Bachmann's claim that President Obama's recent overseas trip to India would cost $200 million a day.
Leave a Comment:
So, tell us- if this was the biggest lie, two years in a row, how did it manage to get 'out there' and STAY 'out there'?
"LIBERALMedia"?
Something else vies for 'biggest lie', it seems to me.
There were so many lies from conservatives, it is impossible to pick the biggest. I hear Fox news plans to increase misinformation on policy issues. Fox News wins the prize for most frequent lies and outrageous lies.
RI, thank you for your humor here on page one. You made my day. Fox, that leading new show does provide differning views, but I find it more factual than say the Huffington-Puffington Post, or several of the other sites that the liberal element "cuts&pastes" to illustrate truth in advertising. And advertising is just what the liberal sites accomplish, for fact checks often show the lies in the news pieces.
But I do commpliment you RI, for you often present a good argument for your belief.
Don't take our word for it...
Here's the actual Fox Noise Memo laying out the talking points:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedailybeast.com%2Fblogs-and-stories%2F2010-12-09%2Fhow-fox-news-spun-the-health-care-debate%2F&ei=RYsLTcriIcSDngejnp22Dg&usg=AFQjCNHg_zshXFmoIy9ow7ymX8vcBPYPNA
Only a fool doesn't realize when they're being PLAYED!
Biggest lie of 2010: 'Government takeover of health care'
Not a lie. You don't have to own something to take it over, you only have to have control over it, ownership is just a formality. Government has control, especially when it can force you to buy something.
Commerce clause? That's a lie. Commerce clause is to regulate the activity of commerce. Now the left says it is to regulate the inactivity of commerce (forcing you into activity). To say that this is Constitutional, that the founding dads intended the federal government to have this power is the big lie.
Anything to the right of the Moscow Marx Times is liberal to you guys.
The 'liberal media" had no problem running with the lie
How do people get away with the silly canard that the media is liberal? when it is so obviously untrue.
safecracker- repeat after me...."fair and BALANCED".......
C'mon, you can do it. We ALL enjoy a little humor on here from time-to-time.
Why is it I mention fool, and in pop's bobby the tool?
Feisty- if the media is SO liberal, how come this wasn't put up all over the place, day in and day out?
THAT'S what makes my blood boil. It's out there, it's common knowledge, but does it get the airtime and ink it deserves? That WE deserve, as voters??
To quote a well-known blubberer... "HELL NO it doesn't!
"Anything to the right of the Moscow Marx Times is liberal to you guys."
Tossing in a 'cute' comment doesn't make the post any less valid. Typical conservative response.
In a related story the University of Maryland has just completed a study that shows that 90% of Americans believe that they received at least some misinformation from political ads and talking heads during the midterm elections. No big surprise there right? Of course that means that apparently 1 in 10 think that nobody gave them any misinformation during the midterms and I find that a bit troubling.
One of the biggest revelations to come our of the University of Maryland study though is that FOX News viewers were 30% more likely to actually believe the misinformation than those who primarily used any source other than FOX as their primary news source particularly if the misinformation portrayed a conservative/GOP candidate in a positive light or a liberal/Democratic candidate in a negative light.
The news about FOX viewers still doesn't concern me as much as the 10% who didn't think they had received ANY misinformation though. I mean really what planet are those folks living on??
Couldn't agree more Buzz! It's ALL out there! Hell these lazy crack pot journalists don't even have to leave the comfort of their desks to to some REAL investigative reporting - but they choose to remain MUM!
Wonder why that is? Maybe because it's ALL of the media that's complicit in keeping this country stuck on stupid!
Then you have the stuck on stupid crowd themselves who when presented the cold hard FACTS - RUFUSE to believe them!
Ain't America Grand! lol
The authors of the article and the REST of the MSM are the LIARS
"Takeover" means "Control" and the Federal Government under that definition "takes over." Under Obamacare:
"Over $2 trillion (with a "t," not even a "b") will be expended, mostly on a massive increase in the federal bureaucracy. HR 3590 creates 68 new grant programs, 47 bureaucratic entities, 29 demonstration projects, six whole new regulatory agencies, six compliance standards, two new entitlements, and a large expansion of the IRS.
Link: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/12/are_we_feeling_better_yet.html
To fight this massive bureaucracy a hardworking citizen would need an army of lawyers obviously no one but the Government has access to.
Yes Obamacare "takes over" health care.
The liberal media are LIARS
So enlighten us Patrick. How is it so obvious?
The government, through the HEW chief, gets to decide what benefits can be or must be in "benefit plans", and what doesn't qualify as insurance benefits, and sets minimum loss ratios, which defacto means it sets prices. Thus, Obamacare determines what is or isn't covered, the benefit design and the prices of such benefits by establishing loss ratio minimums. Anyone who has ever worked in the health insurance field knows that this, in effect, contols and determines all the pertinent aspects of insurance. It is government run health care for all practical purposes.
Madison write:
Well, the screech owl does it again. Politifact has been quite even-handed in its review of political claims, debunking statements from all sides with equal gravity. But screech owl demonstrates what Catholic theologians discuss in "The Doctrine of the Four Last Things," in which the condemned sinner laments in Hades that the sin had been committed, but yet still loves and embraces the sin. It's a form of torment.
Madison, you lie consistently, and here you not only lie, but do so outrageously. Let it go, seek the truth and we will grant you absolution.
As Politifact pointed out, rather than taking over health care, the Health Insurance Reform program uses PRIVATE companies to implement the program. The government does NOT take over either health insurance OR health care delivery.
The "talking point" of the GOP was always a lie, intended to activate and frighten opposition.
Go to a quiet corner, say three Hail Mary's and gently beat your breast while saing "Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa ....."
The thing that irks me the most about this -- the sad truth that no one in the moderate and progressive camps, from the administration down, took the deliberate Republican dis-information campaign seriously. It's not the first time they've let the smears go unchallenged, and I really have to ask why.
On the one hand, I understand this: in many situations, responding to crazy only amps up the crazy. Sometimes it's best not to dignify the lie with a response.
On the other hand, this IS politics and the unfortunate truth is that so many people really do respond to a well-crafted soundbite or catch phrase, and the last/catchiest phrase heard tends to be the one that sticks.
So when the right-wing noise machine got their marching and marketing orders from Luntz, exactly why didn't the reasonable folks respond? (Reasonable = the ones to the left of what passes for the GOP these days, if you're wondering)
Better question yet -- why no anticipation of how the rightshwing's going to play the game, since it's been seen before, and why no pre-emptive strikes? Seriously. The way the Dems play may be honorable by comparison (honor's relative in politics), but they're coming to a gunfight armed with spitwads.
Chef- Feisty and I both gave a couple of good examples.....
Any article on First Read is generally slanted way toward the left. MSNBC is more centered, but still left and Fox, as everyone knows, goes right.
I disagree with the author of this article. Obamacare is absolutely government takeover of healthcare. This law establishes controls over every aspect of healthcare and health insurance. The author of this article is speaking without qualification as well, because if he actually read the bill that he is commenting on, he would understand the provisions that amount to takeover.
Such as mandating the purchase of coverage, establishing global benefit levels regardless of need, limiting the operating capital on private companies that offer insurance, setting up committees to review necessity of treatments to seniors, etc, etc.
What part of this isn't takeover?
But hey, don't believe me. Read the law. Come to your own conclusions, not those spoon fed to you by NBC, CNN and the rest of the liberal media. I don't recommend listening to Fox either as your sole source of information. Think for yourselves.
Maybe I need a stronger prescription. I didn't see any examples, not to mention good ones, from you. I don't read feisty's posts as they usually involve calling someone a racist, so if there is an example in there, I would have missed it.
bob-1805084
Biggest lie of 2010: 'Government takeover of health care'
Not a lie. You don't have to own something to take it over, you only have to have control over it, ownership is just a formality. Government has control, especially when it can force you to buy something.
--------------------------------
Bob Bob Bob
The government did not take over anything, all they did was strengthen the hand of the health insurance industry. You supposedly pro-business conservatypes should be dancing in the streets over this legislation.
So if the government uses private industry to instigate the regulation of an industry then it is not a government takeover? Does the same logic apply to using mercenaries in Iraq such as Blackwater? If we only use private mercenaries then we are not really in a war?
On a related point I was reading how the CBO are forced to use the parameters given to them by the requestors. In the case of HCR they were forced to use a figure of 19m people that will require government subsidies in the new exchanges starting in 2014. However, they were not allowed to take into account the number of businesses, or state entities (see Tennesee) that will find it more cost effective (cheaper) to dump employer insurance and move their employees into the exchanges. These employees will require government subsidies (e.g. McDonalds). There are 119m potential people who meet the finacial criteria for government assistance but currently have employer insurance. Even if 25% of these move to the exchanges then the CBO estimates are blown out of the water. Also consider if 50m - 75m move to goverment susidized exchanges that have mandates versions of policies. Although buying from private companies how is this not a takeover?
At the end of the day I believe this was the intent all along as a stepping stone to single-payer through the federal government.
Joe I completely agree with you there. I've listened to BillO on fox radio and Ed Schultz on whatever AM station he was on here and came to the conclusion they are opposite sides of the same coin. Even worse, neither was worth listening to beyond the commercial break.
The biggest lie of 2010? That's easy. Obama and Biden telling us over and over that the economy had "Turned the corner", that there will be "400,000 jobs created every month". that we'll have "Recovery Summer!", ehh, check that, "Recovery Fall!", ehh, no, "Recovery Winter!!!", ehh, no again.
Ends up we had "The extension of the Bush Tax Cuts". So who had predicted that a year ago?
That is exactly correct. The Left assumes that something so self-evidence to them is obvious and doesn't need explained to any huge degree. Attacks should be futile when something is so obvious.
The Right doesn't assume that at all. They believe correctly that their position will be strengthened if they can 1) Control the scope of the debate. 2) Control the language of the debate. 3) Mount a PR campaign so overwhelming in support of their chosen narrative that it wins the day even when the facts are against them.
He who controls the assumptions controls the outcome.
And of course the big lie about ObamaCare is that it is constitutional.
THis has been known by many but now after the damage has been helped by the MSM it uis being reported:
Who were the MSM protecting--NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE--Must have been their corporate owners and :
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/12/16/poll-fox-news-misinformation/
Politifact has their head up their a$$ on this one. What about the Obama lie "if you like your health insurance you can keep it." The "government takeover" rhetoric was exactly on point for two reasons.
First, there's this little thingie about HHS, Labor and IRS writing all these detailed and voluminous regulations to implement HCR. Regulations that are so detailed that if an employer increases the cost of insurance to his employees by as little as $5, the health plan offered by that employer might not pass muster with the regulators. The notion that government has not taken a huge step towards taking over health care by virtue of its massive intevention into how private sector insurance companies conduct their business is disingenuous at best, and an outright fabrication at worst.
Second, during the HCR debate Obama repeatedly proclaimed that the bill was just the first step on a longer road to comprehensive health care reform, a starting point to build on going forward. And building on the HCR that passed would almost certainly have included revisiting the public option. For example, suppose that the Democrats had actually increased their seats in Congress in November rather than lost a ton. In that imaginary world, does anyone seriously doubt that the public option would not be reconsidered? A public option that woukld have pushed us even farther down the road to a complete government takeover of the health care system
Sorry leftists, but the "government takeover" rhetoric was entirely accurate and the right was fully justified in using that phrase. Even the biased FR crowd should have been able to figure that out.
this link isn't going to set well with the Faux News crowd:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/fox-news-viewers-are-the-_n_798146.html
although we've all known it to be true for a very long time. Truth is apparently a subjective concept for many,...
Repeat the lie, propaganda - as acknowledged by George W Bush,...and witnessed by most Americans paying attention. Unfortunately, it works on those who aren't paying attention. The 'mystical' I heard it somewhere,...now it takes root stuff.
Crazy AND Interesting Times,...go figure!
PS. Fellow LibsRus 'ers,...I am off on the great vacation adventure,...will try to check in; but not making any promises,...Mickey should prove to be an adequate distraction! Hold down the fort and keep the light on for me!
Another Top Ten Big Lie for 2010 is that the "Stimulus worked". Really? So why did Obama and the Democrats continually have to extend the unemployment benefits?
So what the lot of you seem to be saying is, the people in general are stupid and believe lies put out by sleazy politicians and that's why you lost the election. Well, that's what we said after the previous election. Not only that but the actions of the sleazy politicians from the previous elections proved we were right. Now we will wait to see if the current sleazy politicians will prove themselves to be cut from the same loaf of crap as the outgoing sleazy politicians. Republocrats all.
It wasn't the "liberal media" idiot, it was the conservative media like "fox". Why would liberals spread lies about themselves? This is the mentality that fox news has produced.
it's very alarming that more and more far right folks on these blogs are sounding more and more like fox news channels. they're really like germs, spreading all over the place and just won't disappear.
to answer the very stupid question: "... if it is the biggest lie, how did it manage to ...stay out there!" the answer is very obvious and simple. if enough idiots persistently spread rumors around, more and more people would start to believe it. the more people being fooled, the more real it may seem. that was how the german nazi gain so much power and support; that was how gwbush got most of the country to support his wars.
and to answer the comment "Not a lie. you don't have to own something to take it over... government has control, especially when it can force you to buyt something." Isn't every driver required to buy auto insurance? Isn't that imposed by the government? so does the government own the auto insurance company? why don't the far right complain about that? and to enlighten you, such auto insurance "insures" that everyone is covered in case accidents happen. it's the same very principle with obama's healthcare. it insures that everyone is covered because everyone will get sick every so often unless you're not a real living being! btw, the auto insurance system, and any insurance system indeed, is a program based on socialistic ideas! it protects your ass!
the far rights just love to fool and to be fooled. these are the people who keep pushing me further and further to the left because they tip the scale of reasoning so lopsided with so much lies. I have to move to the left to keep it balanced!
Ok fiesty, you are being played.
drive-by-observer, "fair and balanced". Sounds good, doesn't it.
anIndependent,
Auto insurance is the requirement of state governments, not the federal government.
Auto insurance requirement is for LIABILITY insurance. It protects the other "guy's ass" not "your ass" from your negligence.
Who's fooled?
Never fails! The right-wingnuts will never let facts get in the way. Just like the death panel fox facts--except that the only death panel we have so far came from a Republican governor (Arizona) who says, "Don't ask me for money, ask more from the Federal Gov't." In other words, if the original health reform legislation passed there wouldn't be any possibility of a Republican governor denying health care to those who need it. Wingnuts, wakeup.
Yes, Fox. That beacon of truth...
http://www.alternet.org/story/149193/study_confirms_that_fox_news_makes_you_stupid
When the government mandates that you purchase health insurance and be "fined" by the government if you don't, what would you call it other then a government take over of health care!
If you repeat anything enough times some will start believing it after a while. It worked for The Republicans and Tea Partyers because their base will believe anything, as long as they don't have to fact-check it themselves.
what makes you think liability doesn't protect you? it protects your liability! doesn't it?
are you saying that state governors aren't government?
How many more "un-truths" are to be told by both sides of the aisle ?
Maybe the following Presidential campaign speech inspired and provoked lies from both sides of the aisle, but mainly those coming from the Extreme Left of Europe:
Oh, the UN-TRUTHFUL remarks didn't come from a "right wing nut", "beacon of truth", "Faux news crowd", "stupid crowd", et al, BUT FROM YOUR OWN PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL SOCIAL JUSTICE LEADER.
So, tell us- if this was the biggest lie, two years in a row, how did it manage to get 'out there' and STAY 'out there'?
"LIBERALMedia"?
Something else vies for 'biggest lie', it seems to me.
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Check it out, gang. "they" collapsed THIS! Must have been some powerful truth to it, huh?
....And, I just figured it out- it's likely because it collapses the posts that follow, and MOST vidicate or support mine.
The biggest lie is the MSM lame media led by NBC/Obama News.
Having read the bills and having several years of reading codes and regulations, I would tell you that the bottom line of the health care bill was about gaining government approval and complying with government mandates and requirements. If government isn't controlling i.e. taking over the health care industry - there isn't any need for 95% of the language in the bill, almost none of the new bureaucracies.
Liberal media is another lie, unless you consider liberal to mean reporting actual true facts, even if they happen to be unfavorable to your opinions and fantasies
This story uses Politifact.com as it's source? That's a joke right there since politifact is not a non-partisan organization and is, in fact, run by the St. Petersburg Times. About the most liberal newspaper in Florida. And Politifact ha been 'Fact Checked' by other sources and found that about 60% of the "fact checking" conclusions to be erroneous.
If Obamacare is allowed to continue the phrase "Government Takeover" will prove to be real. What will turn out to be the biggest lie will be either "the ability to keep your insurance if so desired" or that "Obamacare will help keep insurance costs from skyrocketing." Those two work hand in hand as increases in premiums through private insurance will make it impossible to keep your original policies, therefore forcing us to take a "public option". With the implimentation of Obamacare we are already seeing massive increases in premiums. My premiums over the years have averaged about 15% increase per year. Sometimes more , sometimes less but a fair average. I just got my increase for next year for my wife and I and it went from a little less than $100.00 per week to get this, $180.00 per week. If you figure $15.00 should have been average plus her company had three large claims this year, mine being the largest for pancreatic cancer surgery and chemo/radiation treatment then maybe our policies should have seen an additional $25.00 per week increase on all policies. Sound like fair numbers? I think so from what I've seen in the past. That means the implementation of Obamacare accounts for the rest of the increase of $40.00 per week. That means Obamacare which is just beginning is costing us a 40% increase for the very first year. Thanks Obama for the biggest lie which was that it woud help keep our premiums from skyrocketing. It backfired bigtime which is exactly what the right wing media as you call it said would happen and they were definately correct on their prediction and will fall correct on others as things continue to surface. God help us if Obamacare continues. I just pray that I get cleared from my cancer soon so I can get back to work and save my family.
Come on folks Fox is number 1 in the news polls NBC Universal is number last. As far as death panels, they are there it is carefully worded but there. The government has also taken over healthcare. This a truth NBC your journalist have lost there credibility, I am not impolite so I will not say you and your jounalist are liars. . The general public has reached this conclusion and that is why you are miserably last in polls. What hurts more is your reporting has hurt the people who believed what you said with your political views that were lies and distortions. Healthcare is irresponsible NBC read the bill read the reports on the cost and especially read the cuts to social security and medicare before you as a media outlet disappear due to irresponsible and untrue news reports.
Plenty of places to read the actual truth if you're so inclined. Maybe you just weren't interested.
Lies tend to work on "drive by observers"
The left are the ones that lie. The "intent" of the law is govt. takeover. The "politicians" leave enough plausible deniability that ultimately are just words to fool the less intelligent. If a program is unsustainable, no one benefits in the long run. John Boehner is speaking the truth in that if all things are considered including the questionable character of our elected dems and especially the lying president, the best conclusion is exactly what he says. If logic ruled all you fools would be praising his intelligence and his character and his courage.
Thats simple, the media is controlled by the right wing, the top guy, his name is madoff. The reason that its a two year winner, is the health insurance companies that were non profit until 1964, want nothing to do with regulations. So they can continue to make millions off healthy people, once your sick though they just drop your coverage. They will continue this type of propaganda as long as it takes to convince the American public that it is the truth. When are people going to realize that this country is run by special interest and corporations. Who care only for their profits to increase, no matter what it takes. Its just that simple as I said before.
More proof republicans are liars and start propaganda! They only care about themselves, NOT the American people.
you're wrong drive by -- the media is center right. there are far more conservative radio talk shows than progressive, and the right is really good at scaring the uninformed. look at cable packages, fox is part of basic, but you have to purchase extended to get msnbc. how's that for a level playing field.
you've sheepherders like hannity, o'reilly, beck, limbaugh, etc., to herd you all and whip you up in one big ball of fear frenzy! yuo've got crazies like bachmann with that dazed crazed look in her eyes, how can rational people even try to identify... they're banking on the general public's ignorance ...
Chris...Fox News are owned by News Corp....the second largest shareholder is a saudia arabian "prince"....saudia arabia is manipulating you and you lap it all up....Fox News just won in court for inaccurant news reporting...however, they defended themselves based on the argument that they are an entertainment company, not a news reporting company, so they DON'T have to tell the truth, or at least actual facts...They won their case on that basis...keep lapping up the koolaid...this "prince" is also the same guy who gave the largest contribution towards building the mosque at ground zero....lap it up...keep lapping the poison....
jane, you're absolutely correct. Fox brags incessantly about having more viewers than any other single news network. ALL of the major Conservative talkers, on radio as well as TV brag about having "millions" of viewers every week. Mark Halperin and John Harris of Politico wrote "Drudge rules our world." No guest was on the Sunday morning talk shows last year more often than Newt Gingrich. Ann Coulter has been a regular guest on "CBS This Morning." In spite of ALL OF THAT Conservatives cling to this myth of the "Liberal media" and pretend they're facing a monumental task to overcome that bias.
John Boehner. should be asked to step down .. if he cant seem to stop crying and tell the truth to America..He is def a hormonal wack job and has no place in the 3rd position ....He is unfit ....and i resent the Republicans putting this wimp in a position of that nature !!!!
After Pelosi you have the whining audacity to remark on someone being a whack job. OH! That was humor, right? HA!
Who started it? "Botox Queen", anyone? Humor's in a funny bone, I guess.
Boehner's tears are tears of laughter. He got what he wanted--death panels. Joke's on the right wingnuts.
...and you'll see in the posts here that the Republicans aren't done lying about it yet.
Expect to hear it more, as the Republicans try to repeal health care.
Betcha Pelosi could make it thru Navy boot camp, Boehner certainly didn't, he cried and they let him out. Physically unfit, or was it emotionally?
Your funny!!!??? Why cant they??!!! HaHaHaHaHa!
Lying is a Republicon "Family Value."
Hey Republicans and conservatives!
Forget this "REPEAL OBAMACARE" fantasy that was the big talking point of the election. The reality is that the health insurance companies WON. They got exactly what they wanted; 30 million new customers. Do you think they'll let the Republicans repeal it? NOT A CHANCE.
Health insurance interests contribute 3x more to Republicans over Democrats. They'll let the R's make a good show and put on some hearings for theater, but it will NEVER be repealed.
no one ever said you'd go to jail for not buying health insurance. Do you go to jail for not buying car insurance where its required? Not unless you drive. So the solution is clear, wingnut:
If you don't want to buy insurance, don't EVER go to a medical facility. If you get sick or injured, tough it out. Find help from someone who doesn't have one of those pesky government licenses to practice medicine. Then no one will ever know that you're a scumbag who thinks that he should get by on the taxpayer's dime, and you won't have to pay the fine to offset the cost that you just tried to shuck off on the taxpayers, under the guise of being a Constitutional Scholar.
The interstate commerce comes into play when you seek medical treatment. Attempting to purchase medical care is interstate commerce. Case closed, good day.
The courts will declare much of Obamacare unconstitutional and the congress won't fund it.
Poof... it's gone!
Hey jcj78 I agree to your little terms. I will never use a medical facility so I don't have to get insurance right douchebagger? Wrong, the bill you are praising says if I don't buy insurance I get fined whether I use the medical facilities or not. So take this 2000+ page bill and shove it up your A$$. You douchebaggers that want to tell me how to run my health care decisions can all go flip yourselves. I will not get insurance and I will not be told I have to by anyone.
Biggest lie of 2010: anything that started with Oblabla saying "Let me be perfectly clear."
Liberals may be right about the statement. Now if they had said "The Democrat's attempt to have government take over health care" This is not an untruth.
Here is a lie.
"But if anyone from either party has a better approach that will bring down premiums, bring down the deficit, cover the uninsured, strengthen Medicare for seniors, and stop insurance company abuses, let me know. I'm eager to see it." Barack Obama, State of the Union Address 1/27/10
bboomer - Obama's right. A better approach - extended and funded Medicare - was blocked every step of the way. The Republicans as usual opt for cruelty and now they think they can undo Obama Care. Well see how they like it when every effort they make in that direction in the next two years is shot down. I'm retired now, and I don't like to have to waste my time and raise my BP replying to a**holes brainwashed by the "Fascist Opinion eXchange" but I'm growing to enjoy snarling back at the right wing vitriol thown about on NewsVine.
boehner is an out or control alcoholic. again, how can a rational person even identify
But as Republicans smelled serious opportunity in the midterm elections, they didn't let facts get in the way of a great punchline. ... uttered by dozens of politicians and pundits, it played an important role in shaping public opinion about the health care plan and was a significant factor in the Democrats' shellacking in the November elections.
Lol
___________
I'm glad to see these major fights over i.e., health care, DADT, The DREAM Act, the midterms. So much business attended to since 2009. I stayed up late last night to watch the beginning of the end of these battles. The vote on the tax cuts & unemployment benefits. A few more votes hopefully this weekend and we can begin 2011 with a whole new set of hair on fire slogans.
Of all the things President Obama has been accused of letting happen to this country, nothing is different. Except that a whole lot of governing is taking place.
2011. Beginning of the withdrawal in Afghanistan. So much to do. So much has been done already.
I noticed something interesting the other day when I was looking at the photos of President Obama and Kobe Bryant and the Lakers with the children. The kids were looking up to President Obama with awe. Usually those looks are only reserved for athletes. But in these kids' eyes, it was President Obama they were looking up to, not the star athlete - Kobe Bryant.
That's change folks.
Keep your change, This excuse for a President has not experience at doing anything and you voted for him. That tells me all about you that I need to know.
Good you can leave now, right? Say hi to 'sweetie face' for me when you get home.
You poor ba$tards. You got nothing. Nothing but a weeping about to be Speaker of the House. Who may or may not have a clue as to how to govern. We all know he doesn't like to read anything.
Too bad Senator Reid doesn't have to make the R's spend their nights in the Capitol. They could make a sort of Boys Town with cots everywhere. On Christmas Eve, the children in the GOP could have put on their new pajamas, press their noses against their office windows, with candy canes in their mouths, drooling, as they watch their rich lobbyist friends back their trucks into the Capitol Bldg with all kinds of expensive toys for the children of the Senate.
The rich DID get their extensions. Thanks to the GOP. Much is owed them this Holiday Season.
Other than that, am I supposed to care what you know about me? Because I don't. Care.
Nice reply there drive-by. That is the kind of reply we usually get from Feisty.
"fine you can just leave any time if you don't like what we say." Very adult!
LOL!
Just remember... if you don't like what we say YOU CAN LEAVE ANY TIME AS WELL! :-P
Has anyone noticed that the Liberals are probably getting "preemptive" heads up (probably via the Community Organizer in Chief's media Czar) on articles being posted by MSNBC and the thread which follows become a Liberal social media site ??
LD - Why do you say this over and over "This excuse for a President has not experience at doing anything" in every thread on which you post? Every time somebody (sometimes me) replies that 12 years as a professor of constitutional law, and terms as a state and US senator ARE experience. Do YOU have that much legislative experience?
"Just remember... if you don't like what we say YOU CAN LEAVE ANY TIME AS WELL! :-P"
Geekers, it seems like this ought to work BOTH ways, then, doesn't it?? Hmmmmm....
Who are you again???
Pat in Boston, I feel sorry for you. You libs have lost on every issue since the Midterm elections. How can you stand it? Your savior (Obama) has turned out to be a closet conservative. OMG. Pelosi and Reid have become neutered and unable to push your radical liberal agenda. Maybe you should move a little further north to Canada.
Wow, the lefties are totally wound up again today. They don't know how to act without their quarterly infusion of 2000 page bills totally $1.5 Trillion laced with Pork.
Easy gang, the dependence will go away after a while. You'll get over it!
Louisiana Don, your use of grammar tells me everything I need to know about you.
Idunno, GP, we make it somehow. 123 promises kept, 24 broken, and most of those because political reality (mostly GOP obstruction) made them unachievable. That's a pretty good record.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
I see the force of fox fools is out today trying to defend the lies put out there by republicans. It's only a matter of time before the country figures out they've been had.
You know that as practiced as they are in the art of deception, when they get a little recognition for it you would think they'd be more appreciative.
It's sad how some can't debate the issues, they can only attack the messenger. Alan Grayson gets a vote for the biggest lie. I'm glad he's out.
The kids were looking up to President Obama with awe
What backwoods country have you been living in? Kids look up to anybody famous (or even infamous) with that "look of awe." This is not unique and has nothing to do with Obama being such a great leader. This is kids. This can also be translated as Obama is a sports figure, like Kobe Bryant, not the President.
boomer, you're a tool. whatever prejudice you may feel, obama is still the president of this country.
September 11, 2010: The lie , that MUSLIMS attacked us nine years ago.
Then who the hell did it. I guess you are gonna say Bush did it.
Bluto done it.
Now get the hell out of here.
Cheney and Dr. Dov Zakheim. Jeb and Marvin. Mayo Shattuck and Buzzy Krongard. To name a few.
There it is again...
"Now get the hell out of here."
Very nice. (what a loser).
Just remember what a wise person (wise guy?) once said:
"just remember- if you don't like what we say....."
Paul, say what? Who exactly was flying those airplanes on 9/11 if it were not Muslims? You are deluded and deserve any attack by Muslims in the future. I suspect that if you had lost loved ones on 9/11 you might not feel so tender towards the Muslim scum that attacked us.
The point he was making is It's political ideology, not religion that attacked us.
By the same logic, Catholics killed the Jews in the holocaust. (Hitler was a devout Catholic) and the Baptists lynched the black people. (Most KKK were god-fearing Christians in the local church.) David Koresh was a Christian, so Christians killed the law officers that came to arrest him. You have tons of examples from Northern Ireland or the Basque separatists. It goes on and on... Extremism in any religion is the problem. Not the religion.
This is the problem with the debate. Use some common sense and construct a rational argument.
Actually. I am attempting to point out to them that they are bad Americans. Good Americans understand that we live under the premise of innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.
Whether Muslims were flying the planes on 9/11 has never been proven, let alone in any court of law.
The fact of the matter is, even if you could prove the identities of the pilots at the point of impact with the towers, you would never be able to prove what faith to which they ascribed . And if that fact disturbs you to the point that you say, "I don't care if it can't be proven, to my mind they was MUSLIN." Then you have proven yourself to be little more than a brainwashed racist.
"What tha hell was that Billybob, some kinda Libral mind trick?"
Paul...Maybe they were not MUSLIN, maybe they were PERCALE or even some other kind of cloth.
Just about as likely to be true. LOL.
Half right JW (The point he was making is It's political ideology, not religion that attacked us.) It is political ideology based on religious beliefs.
Completely wrong (Catholics killed the Jews in the holocaust. (Hitler was a devout Catholic)). Nazi's attempted to annihilate the Jews as well as members of the Roman Catholic religion, homosexuals, and people of African descent, all in the name of Aryan purity. Hitler was a devout Aryan not Catholic.
I always ask those opposed to HCR who is paying for the bulk of their healthcare costs? For many crying the loudest we usually find they are the ones most heavily subsidized by taxpayers or employers...until enough of them lose their cheap healthcare there will be no meaningful reform.
I mean how could you be sucking off the taxpayers while on medicare or other federal healthcare system (VA, govt. retirees, etc) and be screaming socialism?
Right on! I could never understand why people keep voting against themselves.
Clearly the biggest lie is Global Warming. Even First Read knows it was a giant hoax - hence nary a mention of the Cancun summit. Way to go FR - it's good to see you all, even here in MSNBC land get it.
There's a fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives. When the government write laws that force citizens to do something, like buy health insurance if they don't have it, that would be seen as a "takeover". The government has taken free choice.... conservatives call it freedom.... from the country. Many companies providing health insurance will have to cancel health coverage and go to the government plan because their insurance doesn't meet the government's requirements. So the Federal government.... democratic congress and president have taken over the healthcare free market and in some cases is forcing people onto government healthcare by making the current health insurance "illegal". An author named Sally Pipes actually read and documented the bill in a book, "The truth about Obamacare". You might want to read about it or the bill yourself before making such goofy claims in a post.
Perhaps you should read the bill and understand that the intent is to stop the insurance industries rip-offs. The reason the republicans are crying is because the insurance industry will actually have to provide health care services with the money they collect from people. isn't that a shame that the insurance industry will have to provide the service they are contracted to instead of using the premiums for other investment purposes.
Republicans are too much. Good grief.
See, Seattle Dad- if the insurance companies had any ability to police themselves and do what's right, the gubmint wouldn't have to step in and try to.
Drive By, you just put your finger right on it. I have said this for a long time.
If people were honest and honorable, they could handle a lot of things all by themselves. But people are not. They are devious and manipulative and they are out for themselves and not each other. So we need an arbiter. And that's why we have government.
So when someone complains about "too much government" it's usually because they could not or did not handle it in a mature manner themselves.
Good comments Seattle.
Reynolds,
Funny - insurance company profits are up 41% from this time last year.
What a tool.
Every time I come to this joke of a website I see a post that must be the most assinine ever. But then I come back (because you liberal Obamatrons are so entertaining) and I see something even nuttier. Get this:
"fielden
Drive By, you just put your finger right on it. I have said this for a long time.
If people were honest and honorable, they could handle a lot of things all by themselves. But people are not. They are devious and manipulative and they are out for themselves and not each other. So we need an arbiter. And that's why we have government."
Ahh, that's what we need, the government to make sure everyone is honest! Have you people lost your minds?
Your failed president is the biggest crook of all and and you think the government can be trusted?
Fools!
Maybe we all should read it instead of taking the word of ANYONE. You might be surprised about what it actually says. We need to inform ourselves and not keep letting other people tell us what we should think about any given subject.
Skippy White should never be the only color, its called inbreeding! fox snooze is making you an angry angry man.
I'd be for government health care and retirement also if it were exactly like the congress gets.... nothing more.... nothing less. I know it'll never happen and that's the problem.
If the Congress were in the same systems they impose on the rest of America, the systems wouldn't be going belly up. The same will happen to governmnet controlled healthcare.
Seattle, you just don't get it. Who the heck do you think is already paying for the health care of the uninsured? You just aren't connecting the dots and think someone is just NOW imposing costs on you.
I find it very interesting that both the conservative and liberal comments on this page are concerned with only one aspect of health care................the money; the root of the problem is a moral one: namely, should we only be concerned with making a profit from illness. Funny, you are all willing to spend trillions of your tax dollars to blow some country up and slaughter their people and your own soldiers in the process, but somehow we need to make money if someone needs an organ transplant. It's not hard to see the reason why the Christian religion is in a tailspin, from Rome to New York. You people love to tell each other that you just don't get it! The men and women of America who fought in the Civil War and and WWII did not do it for the money. We didn't need Blackwater then, nor did we torture. Just two small examples of your moral corruption. America has enough money to provide health care for all it's citizens; however, it lacks the moral fiber, and dedication to it's own people to do so. You have become a sorry lot.
cheers -- americans feeding on americans
What a big surprise (not). Republican operatives stick with a lie until their brainwashed clones pick it up as truth. It never has been any different and never will change because that is how republicans win elections. Some of the garbage that comes out of the republican party should put them in jail.
Republicans/ Conservatives must create lies continually to keep their lower and middle class voters angry and irrational. Otherwise they might realize that everytime they have cast a vote since the days of Reagan they have voted against their own interests. But get them to hate and fear the opposition, call the opposition Commies, Socialists and Marxists, tell them they are going to take away your guns and bibles and these people turn out in droves, vote Republican, and serve the interest of the top 2%.
Were Atwater and Rove disciples of Goering and Goebbels? If not would it then just be mere irony that they followed the same concepts? Or perhaps the entire world of talk radio was modeled after the two minute hate of '1984" only now extended to 24/7.
It was almost as big a lie as the "privatizing Social Security", as the Democrats labeled Pres Bush's proposal to salvage SS. Turnabout is a bitch!
Great posy, and so true. Unfortunely they won't believe it because to believe that would be to admit they voted badly. And they will never believe they were wrong and were duped by Fox and friends.
We all need to realize that when a politician opens his/her mouth, a lie is about to happen. Let's face it, the prime reason a politician is a politician is not to work for the people, but to get re-elected, gain senority and hold more important posts where they can gain more money to get re-elected!
The liberal news media is active to report only that news they wish the public to hear, spinning negatives turning them into positives for their liberal listeners who buy into their reporting.
Yeah, Fox is bad, MSNBC, ABC, CNN and the rest of the liberal sites are good.
The American public has had enough of this dysfunctional group of legislators. Thank Obama for that. Remember, if the current crop of individuals continue with this spending, they will also be looking for jobs in their next election cycle. Perhaps we may have a government soon that understands the constitution, works for individuals, not parties, and will govern as we desire.
The "liberal media" lie is one of the worst. It the media was really liberal they would have (and would continue to) call out the lies put out there by republicans. I'm thinking that the foxbots are pissed that it will be harder to fool the people and are afraid they will start getting called out. Unless they like being played for fools.
Here we are again with the Liberal arm of the media trying to tell us It's a lie that the Government isn't taking over healthcare. Pass it so we can see what's in it. Vote out all Dems and RINO's in 2012.
Baaaa! goes the Don.
oh are you in for a very, very big surprise.
I predict this comments section will be filled with the hapless teabaggers that still believe it.
I can't believe there are still people out there who wish to buy in to obamacare. Talk about socialism. Besides that everyone should know if something is touted by Pelosi it is tainted by graft, corruption, disception, fraud, thievery, and falsehood. She is one individual who must be investigated for her corruption, as well as her suitability for continued employment as a civi servant.
Thumper, how happy are you with your healthcare? With what you are paying? With the treatment you get? With the prospects for the future?
Don't confuse teabaggers with common sense it throws them off.
"Talk about socialism." Can you explain exactly what parts of HCR are socialist and why?
The Affordable Care Act is not socialistic. While it has flaws, ideological incorrectness is not one of them. Under socialized medicine, the government owns and operates the health care system. That in no way describes the ACA.
In the wealthy world, Denmark, England, Finland, Hong Kong, Italy, Norway, Sweden, and Spain have socialized health care. Typically, socialized health care is characterized by a strong public health policy, expansive primary care, and efficiency of operations. None of those are bad things.
The United States has one example of socialized medicine: The VA health care system is government owned and operated.
That would require knowing what socialism is. Anyone who does would not make the statement in the first place.
Thumper,
If she was as bad as you say the Republicans would not have had to spend all those millions in negative adds to demonize her .
Another lie:
"I can see Russia from my house". Acutally, this is clearly NOT what she meant.
She meant "I can see a couple of rubles someone dropped at the shoreline over in Russia".
Last word is, though, she still hasn't figgured out a way to get her hands on them.
And she would be a much better President than this excuse for a President we have had for the past 2 years. We will fix that soon though.
There you have it, kids. Now you know how much weight to give comments from our pal Don, from now on.....
Mr Don- thanks for the valuable insight.
Louisiana Don, it seems with your other comments on "Obammy," etc., connote that you are a bit put off by the race of our President. Perhaps you would think that fellow Louisiana conservative David Duke would do a better job as President, given that he managed a national organization of sheet-wearing skinheads? Leave your racism deep in the bayou, Donny, we have moved on.
You are a nitwit. If you honestly believe that Sarah Palin is anything but a glorified cheerleader you should be punched in the face in front of your inbred children. Yes that is mean and uncalled for but I am so sick of you hillbillies I can barely stand it. You are ruining this country with your willful stupidity. Go f yourself.
I t doesn't matter who's in charge-any Gov't health plans are a takeover-I say to hell with Obama Care just fix what we have now. Medi/Medi worked fine for me until the gov't started to cut into it.
Those were both government programs from the day they were concieved.
Mike L.: What are the hell are you talking about??!!?? Your post is so totally inconsistent that it makes no sense at all! It does do one thing, however. It does show how effective FOX News and the right wing propaganda machine is with many, many, people who can be so easily manipulated. It also indirectly shows how totally foolish the DNCC and DNC political campagain was for 2008.
good god Mike L.. you certainly are clueless..
Aw.. the thought process of a teabagger!!! Forgot that those are gov't sponsored programs did we?
"Keep the government out of my Medicare!!!"
Don't fear Mike your Tea Party folks will make sure that Medicare is dismantled starting in 2011. Along with the rest of the GOP. Hope you have another Health plan to fall back on.
You think they cut into it now ? Just wait until the Rethugs get through with you. Oh Boy ! You're going to be screaming bloody murder. LMFAO
Wow. From this: "any Gov't health plans are a takeover" to this: "Medi/Medi worked fine for me until the gov't started to cut into it" in the same post.
There is no one forcing you to use that governement run healthcare you are on...feel free to go into the private real market for your health insurance...BCBS charges 5000/mo for a 65 year old man by the way.
If MSNBC is such liars, I don't understand why you MSNBC haters log on to it. I sure don't give Fox news any attention.
Because they CAN, steve. You know- 'freedom' and the 1st ammendment and all that. Like taking a gun to a political rally. Why? Well, not because you have any brains, but because you CAN, silly!
So there must be credibility with MSNBC, then I agree with you. See, there is no credibility with FOX news, so why would I waste my time, even though I have the freedom to do so. I find it silly to waste my time with FOX. I'm not bashing freedom or the 1st amendment, I'm just asking...
I do have a feeling that you all log into MSNBC to ridicule and antagonize the left, so if thats how you get your kicks, then I guess I understand.
Merry Christmas!
Steve, if ABC, NBC,CBS or any other station aired false stories or changed videos to make it appear that what was happening in the video was what they were reporting , wouldn't the other channels jump all over them to show the viewers that they were the better station to watch ? And yet all you read about or hear about from the TPers and Republicans is how bias all the stations are except for Fox. Do you see where I'am coming from with this ?
No doubt, I would never log onto FOX News, I don’t even watch the channels they own. Quite crying and get out here.
They come on msnbc because they need to keep spreading their propaganda and lies. They put out the talking points and tell their lackeys to go out and make sure they spread the misinformation. And here they are.
The Republicans lied continuously and consistently about health care reform. They promised middle America they would repeal it. Now they are talking about making minor modifications. Americans were duped by the Republicans.
Too many people, health care providers and insurance companies benefit from Obama's health care reform. The only major problem is that it did not go far enough in assuring everyone fair coverage and employer-manufacturers a better competitive edge against foreign competition.
Funny how even with a majority dem controlled house, senate and white house its still the republicans controlling government. If that would be the case what does that say about the compentence and leadership of the democratic party? They are fractured because they do not have a core belief system when it comes to governing. They are a hodgepodge group of people that get elected by playing off emotions and stirring up hate and promoting division amoung groups of people. They don't have an agenda except to remain in office. This didn't used to be the case but now they have wandered into socialism more and more and have lost their way. Agree or disagree, they used to be an unified party with common values and beliefs. Now they just seem to be mad and screaming collection of politicians that cannot seem to figure out why they don't have the power they thought they would and should have. By stirring up division amoung people and categorizing races and classes as good and bad they have lost touch with how middle America truely feels. They try to court middle America but they can't because they are sitting ontop of the "we know whats best for you mountain" and if you disagree with them you are just "dumber" then they are. They can only debate most of their postions by name calling and labeling those who disagree with them. They don't try to win anyone over with discourse; they just name call and dismiss people as "tea baggers", "racists", "homophobes", "wealthy taking from the poor" etc.. They have gone from being the party that challenged racism to the party that creates it. They have forgotten their roots and principles. And the good ol' boy republicans... that will be for a later day. Could fiscally conservative and socially moderate-liberal platforms ever exist in one party? (Libertarian) It seems no one discusses anything anymore; they just call each other names. Sorry so long winded, just had enough of the name calling today
You just don't get it, do you....
" They are fractured because they do not have a core belief system when it comes to governing"
They are 'fractured' because 51 out of 100 is no longer a 'majority'. let's try to be a little honest, here.+
That's brilliant Y2K. first you say the democrats can't agree with each other thus nothing can be accomplished by them and then you continue with this idea that anyone who disagrees with them is labeled an idiot. I understand this is deep thought for you, but how can they label everyone idiots if they don't agree with something that is not agreed upon amonst themselves?
Perhaps the broad tent of the democratic party scares you because there is differing opinion? perhaps you believe what you say is correct and all other ideas are hogwash?
You had better look a little harder at where the true racism creeps about in our nation. It certainly is not the group that is working to open the dialog.
And, pretending the republican party is fiscally conservative is nothing but a good laugh. The only fiscal conservative action ever seen in the republican party is when they are out of office, as soon as they are elected they are the pork masters of the universe.
Obviously the Democratic Party doesn't get it either. Care to flash back to Nov? Oh, I already know what your answer is. The majority of the voting public is duped and buys in on all the lies they are told from the right. They are an uneducated ill-informed body of people that doesn't know whats in their best interests. FOX, Limbaugh, Beck ... they all controll these people incapable for thinking for themselves. A bunch of bible-thumping, gay-bashing, gun-toteing, racist corporate-owned lemmings that can only parrot what they hear.
If my former party keeps thinking like this they are going to get slapped around some more next election. They need to stand for something like they used to, not just rail against others.
I don't particularly like the democrats but I actually appreciate the fact that they're a fractured bunch. It really bothers me that the republicans can walk in lockstep so well together.
James
Never said the repubs are fiscally responsible. None of them are. And "your broad tent" is turning into a collection of loud screams without direction or purpose. When you "broaden your tent" to collect all the votes possible you lose the ability to have a unified core beliefs. So you have numbers but not purpose. And as far as racism; it exists in all parties. The only difference I see is that on a lot of occasions members under your "broad tent" thrive on it and see it everywhere. At one point you were a racist if you disagreed with the president. Man, woman, race; if your right you're right if your wrong you are wrong. To be labeled as a "bible-thumping, racist, gun-toting, uneducated southern redneck" if you dare disagree with liberals on a point does not draw people to your party, it makes them vote for the other one. The one they decide they hate the least.
Libertarian yb2k:
Libertarian is nothing more than a "dressed up" term for social Darwinism, a political philosophy of the late 19th and 20th centuries. Recently, social Darwinists came to the conclusion that "Libertarian" sounded so much nicer, so much more American, so much easier to sell, than social Darwinism. But, it is the same politico-economic philosophy, namely, lassiez faire (government stay out of business); natural selection (government should have no role in helping the poor); monopoly is the natural direction of capitalism; economic depression is a natural part of capitalism and should be allowed to occur; and, the wealthy are the natural rulers of the social order.
Libertarianism is completely opposed to the 20th century working class struggle for a better life, including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, trade unions, and any government regulatory agency. Libertarians today are very upset with the Republican Party leaders who base their political strategy on Libertarian principles and then "stab them in the back" when they're elected to office (RINOs). RINOs today include George H.W. Bush, and Ronald Reagan.
Name calling exist on both sides, let's be honest here Lib.
Thanks for letting me know how I think. Do you think the Republican and Democratic parties were anything like they are now 100 years ago? Do you not think the Libertarian movement could not change philosophy over time? Yes, it is for less government control (less control = more liberties). But I think if you were to talk to modern Libertarians you would see that "survival of the fittest" even at the expense of monopolies and peoples individual rights does not apply. Libertarians are "only the strong survive" and disregard people born with societal disadvantages. Actually with the freedom to pursue happiness (or wealth) is a liberty that enables people to change thier "station" in life if they chose. Unchecked Capitalism is a beast that will eat itself; it has no concience nor alligience and exists only for wealth. So you would be hard pressed to find anyone with intelligence against all government regulation. There has to be a balance between liberty and regulation. You can be a Libertarian without following a cast mold. Liberty is all about individual liberty as well therefore you will never have everyone that consider themselves a Libertarian fit inside of the cookie cutter description you gave. Conservative fiscal policies (conservative, not Republican) mixed with increased individual liberties and fairness in taxation is the cornerstone. Not bowing before corporate wealth (tarriffs, outsourcing taxes) and increased individual liberties and SOUND social programs that enable not hold down people are part of my beliefs as well.
True Steve, extremes on both sides name call. That has gotten worse lately. Politics are more polarized then ever. What happened to the great and thoughtful debates of generations past? They might have not been right in their decisions (having the benefit of 20/20 vision looking back) but they certainly maintained some respect and decorum and met each on idea/ideology not playground name-calling.
I so agree
They're 'fractured' because the play fair while their opponents don't. It's easy to fracture somebody with a cheap shot.
If you don't like it , don't read it. That's one of the great things about this country, Freedom of choice.
Karlmarx,
They have to move in lock-step. Thats the only way to march the "goose-step" without falling all over each other.
Libertarian: In some ways you sound more like an intellectual Progressive than a social Darwinist. You apparently see the need for some government regulation of business and some need for a social welfare system that includes Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. A social Darwinist would not. Yet, conservatives have long opposed each of those programs. But, that isn’t important because modern conservatives, you say, are not the “conservatives” of years ago. It’s merely a coincidence that modern conservatives make the same arguments against such “socialist” programs as the public option in national health insurance as they did against Social Security in 1935, and Medicare and Medicaid in 1964. The argument was and still is “socialism.”
You also seem to be arguing that Libertarianism has no political/economic philosophy, but rather simply looks at each issue individually and makes a choice to support or not support one side or the other. In other words, Libertarianism is an attempt to approach politics/economics through the eyes of Existentialism. The difference, then, between you and a liberal on any given issue boils down to which particular program you’re going to support. There are no “liberals” nor “conservatives” only choice makers in the eyes of a good Libertarian. Right?
So, how do you decide which side to support? Your answer, as I understand it, is that the private good is the standard, not the suffering of the people, or the public good. To support the latter would be to risk being called a bleeding heart liberal, unless, of course, it is you or your family who is suffering. But, back to the question at hand. How do you know which is the responsible choice?
If you choose to support a given government regulation agency or a given government welfare program, then you come down on the side of those you accuse of "socialism." If you choose not to support, say, the recent government extention of unemployment insurance, then do you not come down against people who are suffering? Is your personal wealth that important to you? You are the only “self” who knows the answers to those questions no matter what you write in these posts. You have defined yourself, Libertarian. No one else gives a rip.
　
I think there's a bigger lie here: "Fox News- Fair and Balanced". (OK, that technically might count as  two.)
Like the old joke in history class about the Holy Roman Empire: Not holy, not Roman, not an empire.
Fox: Not news, not fair, not balanced.
I love fiesty redhead !!!
Me too- but she won't give me the time of day, now that she found out about my trip behind the malt-shop with 'cutiepie' Smiff.
Definitely one of my favorite dem posters.
I agree on the feisty redhead comment, too. She's fun and has a great sense of humor. And doesn't let the untruthful comments go by without pointing them out.
And- she's easy (to collapse).
I'm glad you made sure to add the collapse there Buzz! lmfao! I've forgiven you for your indiscretion and recognition of the difference between a lady & a tramp!
Thanks to all of you to the support and encouragement!
United we stand and divided we fall! ;0)
John Boehner. should be asked to step down .. if he cant seem to stop crying and tell the truth to America..He is def a hormonal wack job and has no place in the 3rd position ....He is unfit ....and i resent the Republicans putting this wimp in a position of that nature !!!!
Boehner is nothing more than a tan drunk!
The lede of this piece actually contains a bigger lie: "independent fact-checking Web site Politifact."
Politifact is NOT independent, and does NOT check facts. It is funded by George Soros and is designed to dispute anyone who opposes Soros' global fascist agenda.
Now, look, Dave- everyone knows.....
HOLY SH*T! There's a little green man in a silver suit coming at me!
HELP, somebody!! ACkkkk........
More from the republican lie machine. TA-DA!
The website politico and Dominico are clueless and uninformed.
There are panels in the new health care bill that decide what conditions do not warrant treatment. And the provisions of the bill will push the plan toward a government takeover.
And I'm definitely not a Republican but I can think and reason, something that apparently lots of posters have not yet learned to do because they're too gullible and uninformed.
Oh boy! Return to beneath the planet of "death panels". It's ablockbuster idea alrighty!
Cloward-Piven strategy...Learn it then ask yourself whats going on. Mandate that everyone has to be covered or be fined, no denial of coverage, no lifetime limits, children being on their parents insurance until 26...
The left cant wait for the private insurance industry to colapse so they can step in and enact their single payer government run option...
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html
Have any more conspiracy theories to sell us?
I could write a book stating that God and I talk daily and he tells me things that happened years ago. Who could dispute it ? You could question it , but could you prove it ? What I'am getting at is : you can post a passage from a book , but that don't make it fact.
I have to wonder what sort of comments one could expect should & or when this 2300 page 'Convoluted' Health Care Reform Legislation, come to light.
No-one in Congress, & in particular, Nancy Pelosi, have a clue what's contained in this 'Cobbled together' piece of Legislation, but somehow some many folk commenting here, seem to have read & understood the entire 2300 pages.
Not even the most important people in 'Health Care', mainly the Providers, such as Medical Institutions, Doctors, Hospital Managers, yet have a clue about how the 'Provisions' of this Bill will be implemented.
As it stands, there is no doubt, that a whole new Dept. of Govt., would have to be created to see to it's 'Implementation'.
But, then I guess, that would only be a 'Cost' to Govt. & not the Taxpayer. I am sure it's only Republicans that don't realize that Govt. make money independent of Taxpayer Revenue.
The biggest lie? Really. It would be more accurate to term your article "the biggest lie". There does not have to be an immediate take over for the law to lead to this. When you set up rules and regulations that are not economically sustainable, one has to ask what is the ultimate goal? The problem in this country is the COST of health care, not the methods of obtaining it. A whole host of laws made over the years have created internal pressure on the system for costs to rise with no corresponding controls to counter act those increases. Nearly all of those are caused by other government programs and the lack of tort reform. This bill only furthers that decline leading to the ultimate goal of socialized medicine (which is rationed care in EVERY country where they have it). Every time some form of this has been tried in this country it has failed miserably. Not a little, miserably. This by both sides of the political aisle. This is will always be the outcome when you go against economic principles. You have to fix the underlying root causes of health inflation, not create more of them. None of those "causes" were addressed in this or any other bill that has ever been passed in any Congress.
The lack of honesty and ethics in how this article was written is disgusting ... and it is you that is lying, not Sarah Palin or Boehner or anyone else who has brought out things about this legislation. The lying comes from those who passed a bill the public (or even other members of Congress) had NOT seen and members of the media such as yourself ... who produce no facts in the statements you assert ... just accusations and smears.
Phil1957, I would like to link my comment at #24, & Piggy-back on yours.
It amazes me that the very people who complain about our improved medical coverage for all Americans are the very ones who forced much of the nuanced language of the health care bill in order to weaken what these paranoid misanthrope's perceived as the new world order......what a sorry lot.
Lie's, go figure, that seems to be a qualification for a GOP or BAGGER. But the most ironic thing of all, very few news medias will call them out on those lies!! FAUX NEWS manufactures lies and supports the lies all the time, and they just keep on doing it. Amazing that so many morons believe anything that comes out of the GOP or FAUX NEWS mouths.
sdilutze, Tell me something. Do you really see Obama in front of you everyday? If you do , you should go
see a psychiatrist. I think you are seeing things.
@sfilutze, You are absolutely correct. The thing that amazes me is the fact that Fox propaganda has located so many brain dead, brain stupid people that honestly believe every word that Rupert Mudrock and the Saudia King hate America and have A (suppose to be Americans) nazi propaganda artist inflaming hate toward anyone that don't agree with them. Like Hannity, Palin the imp and beck the former dope head pardner of fat mouth Limbaugh. They are the enemy that keep people divided. They hate us for no reason and we hate them because they spew their hate at the Fox nazi's orders.