E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
The House passed a repeal of the "Don't Ask/Don't Tell" policy on gays serving openly in military.
Openly gay Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) announced the final vote from the speaker's Chair. The tally was 250 yeas, 175 nays.
Among the Republicans who voted FOR repeal: Ron Paul (TX), Joseph Cao (LA), Charles Djou (HI), David Dreier (CA), and Lincoln Diaz-Balart (FL).
Among the Democrats who voted AGAINST: Bobby Bright (AL) and Artur Davis (AL).
The legislation now goes to the Senate, where it's fate is uncertain.
Leave a Comment:
At long last, this is the right thing to do. You cannot have two classes of citizens in this country. There are now, in the military, those allowed to talk about their families and the people they love, and those who aren't. This is an antiquated policy, time for it to go the way of the dinosaurs.
I agree newday; this is an antiquated policy. Sometimes there are things in life that are just not right. That are just not fair or humane. DADT is one of them. The Senate. Talk about antiquated. There is so much support in our country for this policy to end. I am hopeful, so hopeful, that it will end. It will be something worth taking a moment to celebrate. As one nation.
A moment to be proud that we did the right thing for our military. For our military, who have been to hell and back since September 11th.
May this be our gift to them. And to their fellow combat soldiers who went out and vocally supported this legislation of behalf of all troops.
Especially those who put their careers on the line to get to this moment.
no joe,
My big problem is the lame duck rush, especially in light of so much of the argument being based on a slanted survey.
The primary concern is the troops in combat arms. 67% of Marines in combat arms and 50% of Soldiers in combat arms are against it. The first concern is the same as that expressed by the Marine commandant yesterday, the safety of the troops in combat and the distraction it would cause in a time of combat.
Another concern is that 1/3 of combat troops have stated they will seriously consider leaving if this passes. If that number is just 20% instead of 33%, that represents a loss of 250,000 combat troops in a time of war. This would be a very serious, even crippling consequence of this rushed legislation.
It seems there are so many unresolved issues. The effect on recruiting - so many are from the south, rural, areas. The effect on unit cohesion - combat is not about expressing your sexual identity/equality/whatever. It is the unit cohesion that saves lives. Women do not not serve in combat for this same reason - the distraction and dynamics that come into play when sex is introduced. Sex is sex. Same emotions whether you are straight or gay - not compatible with combat.
This isn't about just getting to talk about your family and loved ones. Guys live together in college and have room mates. A gay is not kicked out for talking about going to get something to eat with a buddy or to a bar. Troops just don't want to have what happens in the bedroom forced on them.
Whether anyone likes it, or not, or how much they hate it, there is a fundamental feeling for gays among many that can not be automatically ordered away, or reconciled in sensitivity training. DADT works. I don't ask, you don't tell me what I don't want to hear. 85% of gays don't want their units to know they are gay anyway.
Last year, 634 were discharged for homosexuality, most had very little time in the military and the cases were uncontested. (How many just decided the military was not a good fit. How many just didn't want to go to Afghanistan?) 98% were honorable discharges with full benefits, including college.
What is the military imperative that requires the lame duck rush? Why not consider keeping DADT for the Marines? (Again women don't serve in combat) Jody talks above about doing this for the troops who have gone through hell since 9/11. The troops that have gone through hell are the troops in combat. They don't want it. Why force it on them? Why not respect the ones that actually fighting and risking/losing their arms, legs and lives?
Why the lame duck rush, no joe?
Why not take a few months and get it right?
I have to leave, but I do enjoy/respect your thoughts and would appreciate your comments.
Thanks no joe.
Whoops, wrong spot.
Congrats to the House for doing the right thing! Now it's just up to the Senate. I guess we all know what that means.
bobby, you lost this argument last weekend or did you forget that? The simple answer is one that children get but you will not: if the troops decide that they don't want to go to war, would you also support that, since you simply balk at "forcing things on them"?
Or would you say "you are in the military, you are here to follow orders. This is an order, now DO IT!" Which would be a reasonable expectation, since the military is based on following a chain of command.
newday,
Actually I was interested in a thoughtful intelligent opinion - that is why it was addressed the way it was.
Sorry.
Yep, bobby, you're probably right not to take me on again. That didn't go well for you, and it never does, does it?. NJ IS more your speed. The two of you have so much in common, and really, we all rejoice that you and NJ finally found a friend.
Well, what do you know, the House does something right for a change.
Too bad it will die in the Senate.
Also, too bad it was not done earlier.
I guess Obama needed it for a campaign issue. Again. Like the tax issue.
Actually, not like the tax issue. I have no problem with the tax issue being a political football. I have a big issue with people's lives being a political football.
Nothing worse than having a fiscally profligate, socially conservative president.
Doggone, NJ, you almost did it. You almost wrote a positive post without attacking P.Obama. I was hopeful there for one minute, and now I am so disappointed.
I put this on another site this past weekend and thought I would put it here. Remember John Lennon's Christmas song - Happy Christmas/War Is Over. It was voted in a poll I saw as the #3 most popular Christmas song of all time. And the children singing? John selected the Harlem Choir to join him. Terrific video of the children singing. No John or Yoko. Just the children. It's really something. May be the best damn thing he ever wrote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2YSAVHmIE&feature=related
So this is Christmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
Ans so this is Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear
And so this is Christmas
For weak and for strong
For rich and the poor ones
The world is so wrong
And so happy Christmas
For black and for white
For yellow and red ones
Let's stop all the fight
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear
And so this is Christmas
And what have we done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
Ans so this is Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear
_______________________
United States Senate - Please. Do the right thing on DADT. Please.
One of my favorite songs, Pat!
Full disclosure - I'm making dinner and have had a glass of wine...
So can someone clue in our resident know it all as to what Executive Order is all about?
Cheers!
PS: Pat & NDD - John Lennon was another angel who was called home to soon.
Exactly right, Feisty, slainte!
A step in the right direction. I hope for all our sakes, but especially my Gay & Lesbian friends, that the Senate does the right thing as well.
IT IS ABOUT TIME
Now let us hope that the Senate, which reportedly has the votes in favor of repealing DADT, does not drop the ball.
Never in my wildest imagination did I dream that in my lifetime this would happen.
To quote Martin Luther King, Jr., 'FREE AT LAST! FREE AT LAST!"
To everything there is a season and FINALLY that seasons is ours. Just watch once the bill is passed how many gay and bi Americans come out. Soon we will see, in fact, just how gay and bisexual our military already is.
America, WE ARE YOUR CHILDREN.
HALLELUJAH !!! And thank you, Mr. Obama, because had you not been brave enough to at least advocate and insist that this policy change, the Court decision would not have been made, the House would never have voted thus, etc., etc, etc.
Due process is due process and the 14th Amendment is very clear. It is all about time and it is way past time that our legislators acted. To require American men and women to lie about their sexual preference just to serve their country is absurd and completely flies in the face of public policy. To deny the millions of gay and bisexual military persons who have served equality and the right to take pride in having served as the people they truly are is just plain an obscenity.
Get over it Fred Phelps! It is time to march onward with dignity and pride.
Times are FINALLY changing Tom: but I understand that it has been a long slow slog which should never have been. Now, for all other rights, including marriage...all of you stay tuned!
Now...
On to extending the Bush tax cuts.
I can't wait to see how many...and WHICH House Democrats elect to stand with their President.
I'm sure that fair-minded First Readers will give a special shout-out to the GOP if they show President Obama more support than Madame Speaker's not-for-long Democratic majority caucus.
Wouldn't that be something.
"A" has nothing whatsoever to do with "B". What on earth are you talking about? Passing tax cuts? Bi and gay people have been paying taxes (on average, no doubt MORE TAXES since we do not generally have exemptions for numerous children and often make more money because collectively as a group we tend to work much longer and much harder) since time immemorial. Let me remind you that it was the Log Cabin Republicans who brought the challenge to DADT in the court that has succeeded. REGARDLESS of how one feels about passing tax reform legislation (there are bi and gay people on both sides of that issue), it is irrelevant here. And if you intend to somehow suggest that tax reform should take precedence over REPEALING A LAW THAT IS DENYING YOUR AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO ARE DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ AND OTHERWISE GLOBALLY EQUAL RIGHTS AND EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you are not only just plain wrong, but your attitude it is typical of the kind of abuse and intolerance to which bi and gay people have been subjected throughout American history. In future, please try to stay focused on topic.
Geez...
You don't have to shout...
Lefties are soooooo emotional...
C'mon, really...
Are you Ed Schultz?
This is why we need term limits to weed out these old koots ! Who are still living in 1958, and have a problem with a black president ! They are not current and do not represent the feelings of the people ...of 2010. We need 2 terms in a lifetime no retirements no healthcare etc ...30K a year let them suffer to pay their bills like we do .These "BUMS" all need to go !!!
It's very easy for all of us to sit at our keyboards, sip our Chardonnay, rejoice about a social ruling and project our glee onto people we don't know and onto people who are living in conditions we probably can't even imagine.
I worry about our soldiers -- the hardships they face and the stress they are under. We as a country tend to be tolerant and think everyone else should be too. Our legislature tends not to look too deeply into the ramifications of the laws and policies they happily pass down on everyone else.
What about the gay soldier who will now have to fret over whether or not he should declare himself to his military brothers? Even though policy will back him up now, was he sort of relieved that DADT made the decision for him so he didn't have to make the decision on his own? Will he be chided now by fellow gays if he chooses not to reveal the secret he may have been comfortably keeping? If 85% say they don't want their units to know, what kind of pressure and conflict are they going to have to deal with now --- in addition to what they're already dealing with in combat zones.
Our troops are based in intolerant countries who hate us for any reason anyway. The people aren't very accepting of our culture, and shouldn't be necessarily. Has anyone read the section in the Koran that talks about homosexuality? It's not pretty. It's pretty scary.
There's been former and active military who've posted on First Read. I don't recall any of them claiming they plan to shout from the roof tops as soon as DADT is repealed. I recall one in particular who talked poignantly about keeping his "secret" and not planning on coming out if he could.
I worry about the soldiers who might not be as gleeful as we are, at home, warm and cozy, mindlessly projecting our ideals on others sacrificing on our behalf.
God Bless our Troops and keep them safe.
"projecting our ideals on others". Pretty much what you just did, right Candice? Any right thinking American would be happy that we took another step toward total equality. Right thinking. I guess that leaves you out.
What a poignant and thoughtful perspective.
Thanks for your comments, Candice.
Oh, Newday. You try so desperately to be combative that you do not see. Pray for our troops, Newday. Have a glorious day!
Thanks, Bob.
"Combative" really Candice? Just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy of your post.
NDD - Why do I picture Candy wrapping herself in a flag before her little ode to the military? lol
And isn't bobby quite the ladies man? ;0))))
Candice, you have missed the point entirely. This isn't about whether or not someone who is currently hiding whether or not a soldier who is gay should come out to his unit.
This is about whether or not a soldier should be forced to give up his or her career because someone finds out he or she is LGBT.
Do I expect that you'll see large numbers of soldiers who are LGBT coming out? No...but that should not be the standard by which you formulate an opinion on whether or not DADT should be repealled.
A stand alone bill.....nothing tacked on????
Pinch me!
Ron Paul: Constituents changed my mind on 'don't ask, don't tell'
So why did Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.), after supporting "don't ask, don't tell" since its introduction in 1993, vote to begin the process to repeal it?
"I have received several calls and visits from constituents who, in spite of the heavy investment in their training, have been forced out of the military simply because they were discovered to be homosexual," Paul said Friday. "To me, this seems like an awful waste. Personal behavior that is disruptive should be subject to military discipline regardless of whether the individual is heterosexual or homosexual. But to discharge an otherwise well-trained, professional, and highly skilled member of the military for these reasons is unfortunate and makes no financial sense."