We let hundreds of thousands of illegals cross our borders each year, and Big Sis wants to roll out the Welcome Wagon for them. Legal citizens go to the airport just trying to get to their destination, and Big Sis wants them to be x-rayed, molested, and makes them prove they are not terrorists.

It all goes back to one thing. Seal the borders first.

And as for what percentage of illegals are criminals. By definition, all of them. But by how many actually end up in federal prisons, somewhere around 25% of the inmates in federal prisons were illegals, at least back in 2007. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html

Big Bear, those are good questions! Most of the people being deported are deported because they either do not have a visa or their visa has expired. No other reason. The current Admininstration has been trying to focus on deportation of people who have actually committed a felony. Republicans have opposed measures to focus on criminals, for reasons they themselves know but will not say.

Being here without a visa is not a crime. Allowing a visa to expire while you are in the US is a violation of a civil administrative procedure (not a felony or criminal matter), and current law calls for a fine and deportation. Also, entering the country without inspection is a violation of a civil administrative procedure (not a felony or cirminal matter) and current law calls for a fine and deportation.

Male US citizens aged 18 to 39 are FIVE TIMES more likely to commit a felony crime as a male immigrant of the same age group without a valid visa. Undocumented Mexican and Central American immigrants are even LESS likely to commit a felony crime.

By your definition, JoAnna, anyone who has ever driven one mile over the speed limit, let a parking meter to expire, crossed a street other than at the corner when the WALK sign was lit, used bad language in public, etc., etc. is a criminal. I'm guessing you're in that group. You should turn yourself in. By the way, the source you cite indicates that immigrants are LESS likely to be in jail than US citizens, and that most of the immigrants are in jail not because they committed a crime, but because they did not have a valid visa. What a waste of tax payer money! Process these people, give them a temporary residency permit, let them work and pay taxes, and move on! Stop wasting my hard earned tax dollars to persecute people who have the same dreams and do the same things every day that you do!

bob:

Are you saying Bush and the GOP from 2000 to 2008 did an outstanding job of protecting the borders? Just wondering. I'm sure they did, and it all went to hell in January 2009, right?

Another one still trying to blame Bush even after Obama has decided we're tired of it. I couldn't stand Bush/Cheney, but I'm tired of the never ending blame game by the people doing a lot of damage to this country by allowing, even inviting, the never ending border chaos. They are coming here for the gringo dollar and that is the only reason they come here - for the handouts. It is abusing the citizens of this country to subject them to further theft aided by this Administration and his "Homeland Security" apointee.

This Administration and its apointees need to be updated. As in updated to people who are interested in representing the needs of the citizens of this country, not Mexico. Americans are tired of being treated like the world's piggy bank. Actually, we are sick to death of it. It is going to cause more and more social unrest to allow the invasion to continue.

bi

No. I didn't say anything about Clinton deposits on a blue dress either.

Can't refute anything?

Bob and "Rosalita" – neither one of you represent the needs of this country, you just pretend to. Nobody in their right mind thinks we have reasonable immigration laws. Neither one of you can say that our immigration laws work well. In all likelihood, neither of you has the slightest idea what our immigration laws actually are. You just like to complain and take potshots at somebody else to make yourself seem more 'better' and more important by comparison.

The DREAM Act provides a pathway to citizenship for people brought to the United States as children, by allowing them to either join the military or attend college. The DREAM Act does not pay for college tuition, nor does it provide any preferential treatment of any kind. It costs the US taxpayer nothing. It costs YOU nothing. It just gives other people the same rights that we ALL enjoy. But that's not okay with YOU, is it? Talk about arrogance!

hey nonsense,

So you didn't like my comments, but ...... can't actually refute/debate anything I actually said either.

No problem, that's cool.

Bob:

bob-1805084

bi

No. I didn't say anything about Clinton deposits on a blue dress either.

Wow. That's really irrelevant.

Just asking. Where were all you whiners when the GOP wasted 8 years not taking action on immigration. You probably remember....it was your guys who shot it down:

It was a victory for Republican conservatives who strongly criticized the bill's provisions that would have established pathways to lawful status for many of the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. They were aided by talk radio and TV hosts who repeatedly attacked the bill and urged listeners to flood Congress with calls, faxes and e-mails.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19475868/ns/politics/

If the GOP hadn't killed it back in 2007, well, things might be different.

But hey...don't take any responsibility for that SNAFU. Just whine about how bad it is now, right?

biweeler,

Are you saying Bush and the GOP from 2000 to 2008 did an outstanding job of protecting the borders?

My response was:

No. - As in I did not say that.

I didn't say anything about Clinton deposits on a blue dress either. - As in what Bush did was as irrelevent as what Cinton did with Monica with respect to my comments.

Sorry it went over your head.

Get back to me when you can SWAG the point of my comment and can discuss what is happening in 2010.

Bob:

Get back to me when you admit that you had no problem with the GOP defeating immigration reform in 2007.

You want to discuss what's going on in 2010? Go for it:

The Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency expects to deport about 400,000 people this fiscal year, nearly 10 percent above the Bush administration's 2008 total and 25 percent more than were deported in 2007. The pace of company audits has roughly quadrupled since President George W. Bush's final year in office.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/25/AR2010072501790.html?sid=ST2010082704452

What Bush did is NOT irrelevant. It's the same old GOP "bait and switch" pitch.

• They campaign on ending abortion. Then they do nothing about it.
• They campaign on ending illegal immigration. Then they do nothing about it.
• They campaign on "family values." Then they follow up with a parade of sexual screwups.

The GOP is the party of hypocrisy and broken promises. Trust in them at your peril. They will NOT bring about any immigration reform because it's much too valuable a campaign tool for them. They don't want it fixed. They want to "promise" to fix it so they can get elected.

No, it would be the $100 Billion plus spent on them annually that would be worth cutting off the money faucet. Let them find their own ride home.

I say just shoot them as they cross, bullets are cheaper!!!

Thank you Bilweeler,

I was really being a little mischievous when I was saying that. But thank you for the information.

Heck, I know it would cost millions to catch and deport all of them, but not allowing local officials to turn them over to the federal government is down right crazy.

Another thing is to start fining the companies that get caught hiring illegal immigrants--cut their money supply off and they will not come as quick.

Protecting our borders is one of the things that President takes an oath on, yet there are an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in this country--I don't care which president you blame--they are not doing their job.

And then state courts are saying that stealing someone's social security number is not identity theft, when getting a job--that is crazy also.

In its ruling the Supreme Court said that using someone else's Social Security Number was not impersonating someone else as long as all of the other information given was accurate. Unfortunately this is not an unusual practice for identity thieves and the ruling would appear to give a green light to anyone attempting such a crime. The only saving grace is that since Montes-Rodriguez actually committed his crime, Colorado has put in place an identity theft statute that specifically makes it a crime to use another person's Social Security Number. The law doesn't apply in this case however because of when it was passed.

And there are other cases that I am looking up, but have to get my daughter from school. I will return to finish.

...I'm sure your ancestors felt the same way, greg, as they crossed...

Nearly half of illegal immigrants actually crossed the border legally, they just never left when their work/student/travel time was up. Illegal immigrants, despite the drain on school, hospital and social services provide a net boost to our economy, thus helping create jobs. Remember, they also pay into a social security system they cannot use.

As bilweeler stated, simply being here illegally is a misdemeanor, and most of the time is not worth the cost to correct. Our country's problem is with illegals who commit crimes, get deported, and simply come back. Or with the drugs and gangs that spill over the Mexican border. Those are the issues I'd like to see the government try and address.

Bigbear-

I agree, going after employers would be a much more effective way to stop illegal immigration. They won't come here if they know they won't get a job.

As far as using other people's social security numbers, I know where I live (yes, we actually have a huge immigration problem in my part of Minnesota) they won't get arrested for identity theft, however they will get arrested for fraud. Every day I see in the paper another arrest for fraud. The problem is, they get arrested, turned over to the fed, get deported, and are back again a few months later.

Go after the employers, go after the employers, go after the employers!

I live in Southern California and have worked in sheet metal factories for the Human Resources Department and they would hire anyone. If you could walk, hop or drag yourself around you would be hired.

The documentation is ridiculous, people would even bring in forged green cards with pictures lamented over the cards, pictures that didn't match the employees. It was like they took the card from their dad and pass it off as their selves.

The owners just looked the other way.

Why go after the employers? Why not just issue work permits and require taxes to be paid and let everyone get on with their lives at no cost to you or me? Why spend trillions when the problem can be solved with a stroke of the pen?

Hey...FIRST READ! Is anybody monitoring this thread?

Greg Rodcih

I say just shoot them as they cross, bullets are cheaper!!!

Rodcih's post is offensive, inflammatory, and adds NO VALUE to this discussion. Please BOOT him.

@Greg......You really agree with killing people, don't you think that is a little inhumane? Aw well doesn't matter you are probably going to Hell anyway.

I have no doubt that those plans are underway. The pandering to the extremely expensive Latino invaders is for votes to float Obama and other Democrats through the next election. It will not happen.

This country is on the brink of destruction from eugenecists that want to save America for 'white' people and turn everyone else into a permanent lower class. At least the immigrants accept American ideals of equality and believe in the American dream of hard work being rewarded, which is more than can be said for the pseudo-'patriots' calling for the downfall of our government and the destructon of our way of life, and want only to have 'special' status above the rest.

The only pandering for votes is being done by those trying to convince polticians that immigrants will vote for the other party, and those lying about the expense of 'invaders' who, if the truth were known, benefit our economy and support our way of life. "Rosalita" my eye.

The parents would not be able to be granted the same legal status as the Dream Act beneficiaries. One the children gain citizenship, if they choose to get it after an almost 10 year process, they would be able to grant citizenship for only parents and siblings, and even that is on a conditional basis. And yes the Dream Act, does go by INS standards. I believe a lot of people do not know the actual facts about the Dream Act and just oppose it because of things they hear on media like FOX News. We as a people need to be more educated about things before we make ignorant statements, and also we need to think for ourselves instead of being told what to think. That is the problem with the American government, the people only speak out when they are told to. And military service are only for those who choose to take the educational route. And I bet you won't join the military even for 6 months.

you are a blatant liar by continually stating in error that they cost nothing. and by pretending that only people who want to work hard cross the border. Sure some are good people who only want an opportunity to work but many many others are not good people and they all want to take advantage of opportunities for handouts, not just work. If you would be more honest it would give you some degree of credibility.

You obviously listen to too much of the hype and intolerant hate rhetoric for assuming that the majority of the people coming into this country without documents come here for handouts and are not "good people".

The enormity of the handouts and crime are committed by legal citizens. You are one of thousands that because of ignorance and intolerance assume the worst and are happy to blame others for this countries misfortunes. Blame the banks, blame your elected officials and blame your fellow citizens but to blame an entire group of people with assumptions and intolerance only goes to show that you don't have a clue of what your talking about.

The reason I say this is because if you were correct in your assumptions the crime rates would be out of this world because 100's of thousands of undocumented aliens enter this country illegally because our immigrations laws are so broken that they encourage illegal migration. If as you claim, the majority of these hundreds of thousands of people entereing the country took advantage of handouts and were mostly bad people...this country would be broke and crime would be rampant and some of our states could be taken over because we couldn't do anything about it because with ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) reports of deportations and CBP (Customs and Border Protection) reports of apprehensions at our borders the numbers would total at 948, 041. Almost a million ... as you call it... mostly bad people and we couldn't do anything about them taking over some states if what you claim to be true was true.

So, what does this number tell you compared to the crime rate, civility and welfare? That the majority of these people are GOOD PEOPLE.

Before you call me a liar, learn the facts. At least I can back up what I say. The Office of Comptroller for the State of Texas examined the economic impact of undocumented Americans and found that they pay over $140 million MORE in state taxes than they receive in services and ADD $17.7 billion to the state GDP. In addition, the undocumented pay in $8 billion per year to the social security system, even though they are not allowed to receive social security benefits. They are subsidizing you, not the other way around. Undocumented children do receive the benefit of public education. So does everybody in this country, including you. The benefit is not only to the student, however. Try visiting a country where large numbers of people are illiterate, and you'll see that the costs of not educating people are higher than the costs of educating them. As for work versus handouts, immigrants are not eligible for welfare, and the undocumented have a higher rate of active participation in the work force than US citizens. All these things are well documented, and anyone with reasonable scholastic skills ought to be able to find sources. If you actually did some homework instead of just parroting propaganda that you hear from others, you might find that your position on this issue changes by 180 degrees. I did.

As for saying that the DREAM Act costs nothing, all the act does is allow people to enlist in the military or apply for a college education. That doesn't cost me (or you) a penny. All it does is extend justice and equal rights to people who were brought to this country as children. The Founding Fathers believed that all men are created equal and are endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Founding Fathers were very wise men indeed.

This judge's opinion from an 1884 lawsuit citing the Declaration of Independence, eloquently states in terms of core American ideals why I personally believe it is important to pass the DREAM Act:

Among these unalienable rights, as proclaimed in that great document, is the right of men to pursue their happiness, by which is meant the right to pursue any lawful business or vocation, in any manner not inconsistent with the equal rights of others, which may increase their prosperity or develop their faculties, so as to give to them their highest enjoyment. The common business and callings of life, the ordinary trades and pursuits, which are innocuous in themselves, and have been followed in all communities from time immemorial, must therefore be free in this country to all alike upon the same conditions. The right to pursue them, without let or hinderance, except that which is applied to all persons of the same age, sex, and condition, is a distinguishing privilege of citizens of the United States, and an essential element of that freedom which they claim as their birthright. It has been well said that 'THE PROPERTY WHICH EVERY MAN HAS IN HIS OWN LABOR, AS IT IS THE ORIGINAL FOUNDATION OF ALL OTHER PROPERTY, SO IT IS THE MOST SACRED AND INVIOLABLE. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands, and to hinder his employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property. It is a manifest encroachment upon the just liberty both of the workman and of those who might be disposed to employ him....

BUTCHERS' UNION CO. v. CRESCENT CITY CO., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)

The careful reader will note that the judge praises the right to pursue the common business and callings of life as "a distinguishing privilege of the United States citizen...." as something that sets America apart from the world at large, not something that set citizens apart as a special class over and above non-citizens. The use of the phrase "unalienable rights" invokes the meaning that natural rights, such as life and liberty are "unalienable" because they are granted by the Creator, and cannot be surrendered or taken by any power of government. According to our Founding Fathers, it is the duty of the government to SECURE unalienable rights, and not within government's right to grant or withdraw them.