Brainless Fiscal Conservativism:

• Guarantees that millions already spent on
• Ensures that jobs that would be created at this needed time are not
• Ensures that New Jersey and New York residents continue with the hardship that is the commute to work in the Manhattan world's largest economic district
• Ensures that commuters continue to burn expensive (and only growing more so as world demand increases and supply has hit limit) gas on highways - a loss to USA individually and collectively
• Ensure more of our dollars go to the middle east for oil
• Removes a driver for economic growth in the New Jersey area from connections enabled by teh tunnel
• A setback for US technological position on a day China breaks the rail record
  http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/10/26/shanghai-hangzhou-line-opens-and-breaks-world-record-chinese-rail-line-shanghai-hangzhou-breaks-world-record-at-262-miles-per-hour/

When would conservatives learn that downsizing our own country will never lead to greatness or restoration? Its ok to work on reducing and eliminating waste but this efforts are nothing short of minimizing our country and it will inhibit our growth.

Look at the Apollo project when we sent a man to the moon spending lots of money, or the second world war when we spent even as high as over 100% of GDP into debt to emerge on top.

Search the economic history books, no country ever became great through austerity measures!

I totally get the frustration with cost over-runs. Why does it seam that every public works project has to cost way more than planned?

I also understand the desire to curb spending.

The problem is that this is the kind of spending that the vast majority of economist agree will actually improve the economy. Infrastructure projects pulled us out of the great depression, because after the money is spent and the initial jobs created are gone, thereis this great piece of infrastructure to make our economy more efficient and therefore adds real permanent jobs.

Charles Arlington Heights, IL: The problem is that this is the kind of spending that the vast majority of economist agree will actually improve the economy.

Spending that produces little or nothing in terms of goods or services helps no one. To expand the economy, to create wealth, you have to produce a good and/or service and recieve some type of return on that investment that exceeds the initial cost. If you don't do that, you haven't created wealth, you've destroyed it.

Unions, corruption, high taxes, fees and ever increasing regulations continue to decimate NYC's viability

Fix THOSE problems FIRST it won't COST citizens MORE MONEY and will IMPROVE THEIR LIVES, JOBS and the ECONOMY

Do the Wall Street Fat Cats REALLY need a $ 30 billion cushier commute from their democrat patrons?

More "stimulus" for Wall Street from Obama and the Goldman Sachs democrats in the White House.

Sickening.

Hubris? Like thinking the future generations, the ones who will have to pay the bill, plus interest, owe us? How about we all pay the $42k we individually owe as part of the current and existing national debt, then figure out what is affordable.

Or, based on the logic of the MSNBC set, why not throw $20 trillion into projects right now? that would totally jumpstart the ecomomy. What would be the downside - it's "good for the economy" right Paul Krugman?

Debt sucks. Paying interest is for suckers, and having to go bankrupt bites.

Come on America, let's buy more useless products from China, so they can build Another high Speed rail system.

At this point in time in America, most who say this or that, would produce Jobs, get shouted down by those who say "America Can't afford it".

China is Smiling!

JoAnnaSmith1
Spending that produces little or nothing in terms of goods or services helps no one. To expand the economy, to create wealth, you have to produce a good and/or service and receive some type of return on that investment that exceeds the initial cost. If you don't do that, you haven't created wealth, you've destroyed it.

Joanna, 6000 construction jobs a year and 45,000 perminate jobs, Please. that job would have been a tax boom for jersey alone!!!, the sales and payroll alone would have put million upon million in Jerseys pocket. its not just that its the suppliers and venders, the concete and steel sub contractor would have created million for there suppliers.

Joanna, I'm a construction estimator and the end result from that job would have been felt for 20 years, but in my post down the page, i understand why he cancel it. i have been in construction
estimating for 25 years and if the documents are not put together well, its lowers the confidence you have in building a project to come in on time and on budget.

Government jobs are the hardest because of the paper work needed to make sure everybody gets paid every 30 days, that the most important part to doing government jobs.

Spending that produces little or nothing in terms of goods or services helps no one. To expand the economy, to create wealth, you have to produce a good and/or service and recieve some type of return on that investment that exceeds the initial cost. If you don't do that, you haven't created wealth, you've destroyed it

@JoAnnaSMith1

This kind of project does produce a good/service that enables other services. Think about it. With that frame of thinking, why did the U.S. ever construct the U.S. Interstate system? It was the forward thinking that saw that having an established infrastructure to transport goods makes it easier ands cheaper to import/export U.S. made products and services.

Every highway widening project that you drive through on your way to work is being done for the same reason to make it easier/faster/cheaper to transport goods/services.

I have no doubt that the original cost of the project would have been re-couped at some time based on ticket sales because no one builds this kind of thing just for fun.

I do agree with the cancelling becuase the amount of expected cost overruns sounds <ridiculous>. If the best that these engineers can do is present a cost +50% overruns, then that isn't good enough to get my signature either - which underscores another of the problems in the U.S. We tend to price OURSELVES out of our own market.

One of the reasons that NASA and the shuttle program are in such disarray is that the costs to do anything are restrictive. Everyone in the supply chain marks-up the price to make even more profit - the great American way!

Until someone decides not to pay.

Enough with the stupid political comments which assume it was all about the money.

This article (a mere soundbite) did not even touch on the the many serious issues with this tunnel. The money was only one of those problems. . See the more the more comprehensive article at newgeography.com.

Jeff: Joanna, 6000 construction jobs a year and 45,000 perminate jobs, Please. that job would have been a tax boom for jersey alone!!!,

Jeff, the part that is being ignored is the cost of the project. Where does that money come from? It isn't built for free. If borrowed, that money has to come from somewhere, and there needs to sufficent cash flow from the project to pay back that debt for that project over time. Also, you cannot tax more out of the project then you put into it. You can say that the project will increase the productivity of the people using it, but unless that productivity exceeds the overall cost of the project, you have a negative cash-flow from that project.

JoAnnaSmith1

Jeff, the part that is being ignored is the cost of the project. Where does that money come from? It isn't built for free. If borrowed, that money has to come from somewhere, and there needs to sufficent cash flow to pay back that debt for the project over time. You cannot tax more out of the project then you put into it. You can say that the project will increase the productivity of the people using it, but unless that productivity exceeds the overall cost of the project, you have a negative cash-flow from that project.

they buy municipal bonds to cover the cost, Bond ratings remember, this is what that is for. jersey would buy the bonds for the cost and pay interest and principal on the bonds till there were paid off in 30 years. but when you do that and they job does not come in on time and on budget then your bond ratings fall, i think this is why he cancel the project.

if the put a liquidated damage clause in the contracts them it might help to bring it in on time but if the documnets are garbage then its not worth it.

Hi Charles,

Playing Devil's Advocate, (figuratively, not advocating for the real Devil - Bush/Cheney/Fox/Palin/ Boehner/Hannity, et.all) I am circumspect about "government creating" jobs, government spending for jobs and government interventions.

About the Great Depression,

December 1929 the unemployment was 9%. In June 1930 the unemployment was 6.3%. That was the month government's first intervention. Although unemployment had never reached double digits, within 6 months of the first government intervention, unemployment hit double digits and stayed there for a DECADE.

Yea, government can "create a few jobs and save/protect union jobs, but since it takes money from the private sector to create/save these jobs it is doing nothing but removing money the private needs to create jobs. Private sector creates real, sustainable jobs and grows the economy, not big government and certainly not big unions.

a Decade?

And how much has Obama budged that 9.6% unemployment from last year after a trillion?

Jeff: they buy municipal bonds to cover the cost,

So true, but as you sell those bonds, you have to pay them off, and as the number of bond funded projects increase, that increases the yearly burden on the taxpayer. There is a limit to the amount of that burden, and for the New Jersey taxpayers, and for their executive representative Gov. Christie, it appears that burden has been exceeded.

This is sad. Not only do we leave our children and future grandkids with a massive debt to pay, we leave them a dilapidated country to go with it. People we better start living in the present and building for the future. We buy everything else from abroard maybe China can sell us bridges and tunnels. bet it won't take 20 years for them to get the job started. They would have it completed in 5.

I am liking Christie more and more. This guy has some common sense, a rarity for a politician. He is doing what alot of us should do, "I would love to buy it but I just don't have the money." There are times to spend money using credit but not for this project.

If the money is from municipal bonds the state would be paying back investors who bought the bonds with interest. I don't think taxes would be involved. As this would probably be considered a revenue bond the tolls collected would help pay for itself over the course of the bond period.

Also most municipal bonds are tax free (interest) for the investors. Too bad this seems as if it is being shut down. I'm sure NJ and NY could benefit from this.

Unfortunate about the cost overruns, but as with most projects revised cost estimates are due after each stage of design. Some contracts could hold the architect/engineer to provide the design at their original estimate or slash portions of it to come within budget. Liquidated damages would generally be added to contractors who misssed deadlines during construction but I don't think a lot has been constructed yet. I would be interested to see if this was done using the traditional design bid process or the design build process.

"600 million already on design and planning" Are you kidding me!!! $600,000,000 dollars on design and planning........ What a rip off. This project should have been killed and stopped it is a waste.

This project reminds me of "The Big Dig." Sorry, the governor was right to cancel a project that was hemorrhaging money.

Sometimes a tourniquet needs to be tied to stop the bleeding. You may lose a limb, but you save the body.

Republicans won't be happy until we become a third world country, complete with lack of infrastructure. If their attitudes had prevailed at the start of the country we would be Somalia.

Thousands upon thousands of jobs lost. How will we pay for the unemployment benefits, the food stamps, and the need for other government services this will cause.

The Chinese are not just smiling they are laughing all the way to the bank. If you have children in college I would advise them to double major in the subject of their choice and Chinese, so they can make out their resume when they graduate and are looking for professional employment in their field.

Thousands upon thousands of jobs lost. How will we pay for the unemployment benefits, the food stamps, and the need for other government services this will cause.

With the billions and billions of dollars that we saved by not building this horrible project! Or, we could take those billions and find NON-TAXPAYER FUNDED jobs through tax credits for small businesses that hire new workers.

It's the kind of thinking that JoannaSmith1 has that proves conservatives don't understand economics. How do you deliver your goods and services to market? How do people get to work? Need I say more. Brutally stupid!

Was this a passenger or a freight project?

Our country is on the verge of becoming a third world nation. We can not keep spending money that we do not have. I do not want our children to be responsible for our monetary mess.

Couldn't agree with you more un-sung!

Fascinating that the Republican'ts have NO problem starting to wars that were UNFUNDED to blow sh!t up but GOD forbid we invest in rebuilding our own country that's crumbling before our very eyes!

So true Feisty.

Wars = good

Infrastructure in Iraq/Afghanistan = good

Outsourcing = good

Creating Jobs in US = bad/too expensive

Honest to God- is there any Republican these days that doesn't suck completely?

This is not rebuilding. This is a pet project. If there is NO money, then there is NO money. This system will ot produce anything.

Thanks for sharing your deep and all knowing wisdom with us again ITM! lmao

I think this is the first comment I've ever read of yours that didn't include the word azz! ;0)))

Feisty:

Yes. Blow sh!t up and kill over 250K Iraqi civilians without blinking an eye and lying through their teeth in the process.

And the media bought it hook, line and sinker.

The same media that wants us to believe that the American electorate is going to throw the Dems out because they're angry at the party in power because of HCR and they did not create jobs.

If that is true then the American electorate has had a collective nervous breakdown.

Living in NYC, a tunnel is a BIG deal. We don't have all of the facts concerning this tunnel, so I will not speculate. However - running extra trains from Jersey to Manhattan would definitely keep many cars off the roads. It looks like 23 trains is the max that the old tunnel can hold, and if there is more ridership, it can be a problem.

The tunnel that is there now runs the PATH trains, which are getting pretty old. I haven't been in THAT for a few years, and I know that although the trains are pretty regular (they run ever 6 minutes), during rush hour it is a zoo down there.

Cut taxes for the top 2% that will fix this mess. They will take that money and the private sector will invest in high speed trains and tunnels. Oh shoot I forgot they have been investing in China and India.

I'm all for them spending 100% of the revenues we provide them.

Spoken like a true tea bagger!

OH Tom. Stop it.....

There is lots of money.. but first the Democrats have to take it out our pockets ............ geez..

That little bit of "Change" you got left should be enough.. If not Obama can print more...

No money? We've been hearing that from your ilk for fifty years. Our money, a fiat currency, is based on debt. If we borrow money to expand the economic pie by building and maintaining projects like the tunnel, paying back the debt gets easier rather than harder. We're not talking about your budget at home. The government can vote to triple its revenue if it feels the need. Can you do that at home?

Now we'll get to hear the government loving piggies squeal! The Libs will be stomping their little feet shouting "How dare they! How dare they take away our government spending!"

The Libs keep asking "How are the Republicans going to balance the budget?!" Well Libs, you balance the budget by spending less, and that is exactly what Christie is doing.

America better get used to hearing the squeals of anger from the all the Libs, there is going to be a lot of it.

This is a huge mistake on Christie's part and will effectively end his "honeymoon" with the press. The backlash will be pronounced and prolonged...What a stupid move!...

Every economists knows that infrastructure brings jobs and helps the economy.

All those who are cheering this decision should note that China has been and continues to improve its infrastructure while also creating green technology jobs.

And the U. S., once the leader, fades into the dust because the right wing came unhinged when a black man was elected president.

Dangerfield:

I guess you know the NJ budget better than the actual Governor.

The Press?..lol... The press will talk about you regardless.

Spoken like the typical conservative "dumb ass" who has no concept of "cause and effect" and has his head shoved too far up his own ass to recognize the difference between a "smart" decision and one made for "political" reasons...

Or would you care to explain why so many of these same lying ass "2-face" Republican's sent in proposals-and this is a matter of "Record"-requesting "Stimulus money" for projects in their own damn states or districts "to help create jobs and stabilize the economy" while at the EXACT same time running to Fox to constantly trash the Stimulus Bill for their brainwashed audience of "self defeating" douche-bags?

Why would all these "Republicans" try to get money-several times in some cases-from a program they "claim" didn't work and have "publicly" bashed from day one?

This moron just shot down a project which would have employed THOUSANDS of out of work "American" people who would immediately start putting those paychecks right back into the "US" economy by "purchasing" goods and services-or did Governor Christie think the plan was to just to hire droves "illegal immigrants" for the labor and purchase all the concrete and steel for the project from China.

"Actions" speak louder than words and "all" of the actions of the Republican party ever since their asses got booted out of power-after they f.u.c.k.e.d everything up-has been a campaign "absolute" disdain and contempt not only for this president and his administration but also for all the "American" citizens-like you!-they've been deliberately f.u.c.k.i.n.g over with a ridiculous policy of "nonstop" obstruction, manipulation, fear-mongering and dirty tactics purely to position themselves for a "power grab" in November and this jerk is obviously "no" different...

BTW: Isn't Christie the same guy who made a whiny little "ass" of himself by actually trying to blame Obama and the Democrats for his state missing out on a 400 million dollar "Education" bill because "his" people filled out the paperwork incorrectly? Then again Republican's "never" take responsibility when they screw something up big time...Like America.

So I guess the other "9 states" who filled out the paperwork correctly and received the money are "typical unintelligent liberals who is too dumb to comprehend" anything-such as the ability to actually "read and comprehend" something before filing it out...

Think...Then VOTE!

Cheers

Hypernovae: BTW: Isn't Christie the same guy who made a whiny little "ass" of himself by actually trying to blame Obama and the Democrats for his state missing out on a 400 million dollar "Education" bill because "his" people filled out the paperwork incorrectly?

The paperwork was probably filled out during the previous NJ administrion. Using the Barack Obama Blame the Other Guy Model of Responsibility, Christie can blame it on Corzine.

@JoAnnaSmith1

You are awesome! Thanks for giving these libs some facts they can chew on for their rants. They use the same tired information over and over...

A country's budget can not be run like a business budget that can not be run like a household budget. To conflate any of these three to be the same as any of the others is a mistake.

Transportation is a service and answers the question about whether this is a good or service.

45,000 permanent jobs means 45,000 more tax payers means more tax revenue without raising taxes.

22,000 vehicles removed from the roads every single day means less pollution, less strain on the fuel supply (which should lower the price since as the supply goes up, prices are supposed to drop) and fewer traffic problems (accidents, traffic jams, etc.) and lower insurance rates. Not to mention the productivity lost by traffic jams, people being treated for injuries from accidents, lung diseases caused by pollution, etc.

Infrastructure projects are probably the single most efficient and effective use of public monies to create jobs and help an economy grow. The jobs created to do the projects may be temporary but the jobs created as a result are private sector and permanant (except when shipped overseas by Republicans like my brother-in-law did with his business to take advantage of the tax breaks).

No disagreement on infrastructure and its value. But it should be done economically, efficiently and on-budget.

Your brother might still be here if our corporate tax rates were competitive. Instead we use our corporations to siphon money from their customers to cover the corporate "income" tax and funnel it to the federal government. The corporate income tax is simply an expense that is passed on to customers.

I'd rather your brother had the increased profits to fund more jobs with higher wages to employees who would then pay taxes on their incomes at current rates.

Uh, our corporate tax rate is the 5th lowest in the world, idiot:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/international.cfm

The only reason the expense is passed on to consumers is so the 3 guys at the top can continue to make 400x their average workers salaries.

... and his brother-in-law would just pocket any additional profits and keep looking for ways to screw his workers... because it's a "free" market, ya know.

Because on some level I'd be proud to stand back and say, 'look what we accomplished."

The will today doesn't exist to build the Golden Gate Bridge, sculpt Mt. Rushmore or construct an interstate highway system. My question is whether or not the money already spent was properly allocated. Was anyone taking a bigger piece of the pie? Where they using union or non-union labor?

All these false starts and failures remind me of the decrepit Texas Supercollider (a particle accelerator that would've put Europe's LHC to shame) sitting half-finished outside of Dallas after a billion in taxpayer dollars spent.

I would disagree with your number about percentage of population that would use this tunnel, but remember, that part of the population makes up the economic engine of this country.

Made up statistics make teabaggers happy!!!

MEanwhile their states continues to take in more Federal money for every tax they pay while NY and CA feed them returning each well over $1.20 for every $1 they contribute. Why not ask why those people should be subsidizing the south and Alaska first.

Meanwhile won't the jobs created by the project will also still result in tax revenue back to the country, also? What about the development that the connection spurs in private sector job growth due to the open lines? Republicans are shrinking this country. After directly shrinking it through their run up to their bailout in 2008.

(Our government continues to shrink while they yell big government - notice that if not for loss in government jobs, this admin has actually created positive jobs every month of this year).

I rode the train from Jersey to NYC once.....Once was all I needed. Trains don't work in this country, people don't like them and have a history of not using them. Why would anyone believe this "special" train would be any different? It will be full the 1st day or two, then not so much. The population in Jersey is too spread out, who is going to want to drive to the depot when they can get into the city in the same amount of time.

Federal Transit Administration chief Peter Rogoff has said that the new tunnel would shorten rail trips in the region and reduce the need to transfer between trains, which he said can save several minutes.

Save several MINUTES oooooOOOOoooooo that's worth 10 billion isn't it....

That all assumes that gasoline isn't going to ever cost eight dollars a gallon.

ED - You're so right about the missing will - though I'd add the Washington Metro system to your list. I can remember being down there when it was still under construction and all of the griping and moaning about the costs and the schedule delays and the nightmare traffic jams it caused - but could anyone who's lived in or traveled to D.C. in the last 30 years now even begin to imagine life there without it? (and @tboregon, that includes you, too!)

Americans used to be able to figure out a way to get the important things done. Now we'd rather just throw up our hands and throw $600 million down the drain.

ED:

Some of our most significant accomplishments from days gone by were constructed by laborers being paid less, in current dollars, than the typical immigrant farm laborer.

God help us when we have to repair or improve them at current costs.

Slave wages are slave wages. The global market, made possible by our military, is undermining wages here at home.

The Swiss aren't blowing all their tax dollars on wars across the planet! We have to build roads and tunnels in Afghanistan and Iraq before we can take care of our own.

Derp-derp?

I was being sarcastic - or do you think I don't keep myself abreast of the goings-on in the world? ;p

so was i

And the British built the Chunnel.

Yet Americans, some of them, again, armed with incorrect facts, fall behind.

Don't be surprised when you realize we become a third-world country.

...okay.

ur mom lol

E.D., her is what gives:

Our former governor, who considered negotiated to be an exercise in giving AWAY as much as he could, went to the table on this, and, not surprisingly, agreed to whatever others asked.

So, as originally described, this tunnel would have connected to Grand Central Station. In a piece of wily negotiating, Corzine agreed to drop that-but the new tunnel would not connect with Penn Station, either. So, what did he agree to? Well, he agreed that New Jerseyans would construct a NEW station- in Manhattan.

He got the federal government, (that's, by the way, along with everyone else), to put up $3 billion, and the Port Authority to put up an equal amount. New Jersey was responsible for the rest- and that amount was going up by the day- probably to the ten billion mark, give or take.

Notice who is missing from the list of contributors? That's right- New York gets a shiny new train station that New Jersey gets to pay for! You can understand that some of us were a little upset about that, given that sane people don't ordinarily pay to put an addition on their neighbor's houses.

In addition, the costs of this project were never fully laid out. One piece that was missing from the calculations was the building of a new bridge, at the cost of $800million, give or take a hundred million. It was left out because there is currently a bridge that might be used, but it is low, and has to be opened for boat traffic, spanning, as it does, the Port of Newark, where there is a lot of cargo ship traffic. Did I mention that the bridge is over a hundred years old, rusted, will not bear the weight of trains? No? Well, Corzine didn't think that was important, either.

This entire debacle arose because Corzine committed to the project on the fly, so he. Oils use it as a campaign issue. It was I'll conceived, I'll thought out, and would have been an economic disaster for New Jersey taxpayers.

New York would have profited nicely, though.

Knock Knodck...

Who's there? Well we know it's NOT NJNB!

No Jo,

As you know i'm a construction estimator, and what i'm getting from your post, is that this was what we call a money killer in the making for jersey that the previous Governor signed on to.

My first question would be why would he jeopardize the tax payers in Jersey on a job that from what i read is a disaster in the making.

I said in a post here that there Must have been good reason why he pulled the plug and from what your saying it was the right thing to do.

Now i ask you, if the feds put more money in to this and get Jersey off the hook as much as they would have been or redesign to bring down cost, do you think this project will come back? also is this project necessary?

cause 6000 construction jobs and 45,000 perminate jobs would be a tax boom for Jersey, not to mention the jobs through suppliers and sub contractors does not fall in your lap everyday.

My guess is that the number of tunnels in the U.S. vastly outnumbers Switzerland.

800 million Chinese are still desperate for infrastructure that most towns in mountain areas of West Virginia have.

We're not crumbling. We're not falling behind. Most of the world is still trying to catch up and Europe SHOULD be up with us.

For the party of hope and change, you're still pretty deficient in the positive attitude department.

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Oh sh**, it really is Feisty.

I am so tired of this refrain. BTW it's "shovel ready." The stimulus has funded over 15,000 transportation projects nationwide. That's just transportation projects ... in the last 18 months ... guess they were shovel-ready.

The voted him in, so they wil have to live with the consequences.

Again, we don't know all of the circumstances, but 6,000 jobs - gone.

I surely hope that the Gov. was making a good sound fiscal decision. Seems to me that you would want to make as much tax dollars as you can...

I'm not sure how they figure the "job" count. This nothing more than two new tunnels. As of now the railway system is no where near capacity, so I'm not sure why there are estimates of all these new jobs that will be created. Is that like the estimates of all the new jobs created by the stimulus bill?

All that was for sure was that they were building two new tunnels that they really don't need at a cost of 10 billion $$, for the benefit of a claimed "couple minutes" of travel time it "could" save. This was NOT a high speed train, this was a new hole in the ground.

So by your logic if I sell you a hundred pencils for $10 million dollars you should buy them because it will create jobs. You can't only focus on one side of this issue to make a sound decision. Your logic is why this country is in the trouble it is. If you can't afford it you don't buy it because you don't throw good money at bad money.

I think Pat is calling Christie fat. That is so mean.

Hey Pat, what is your BMI?

I guess he's not running for president after all...

kdbwheels -

Exactly what I'm thinking, can anyone say: RECALL? This would be the right time and reason to do it, so I sure hope the good folks in NJ remember they have that right and get on with it - Christie really looks like a mafia don, perhaps he was afraid his mob buddies would not make any money off the project or be able to hide any bodies in the dig. What ever the reason he thinks he has, he is an idiot and if I lived in his state I'd have already been up bright and early circulating that recall petition.

If....

If a dog had a square azz he'd sh!t blocks.

Well he is not your governor and you are not going to be on the hook for the over-runs.

No, I'm not going to be on the hook for the over-runs, but again, if it were my state, those are the kind of over runs I'd be happy about. I took all my money out of stocks in April 2001, put them in municipal bonds (which is what really covers most of any road project), never lost one dime, and will always put my money in those kinds of bonds - that is an investment I believe in, I do not believe in an investment of spending all my money on another country (Iraq) and their infrastructure or healthcare - would much rather it be spent here on our roads and healthcare instead (you know I remember georgie saying how wonderful it was the Iraqi people would get good roads and free healthcare, guess that let us know pretty early on who he valued most cause the repugnants don't care if we have good roads, transportation or healthcare).

And the correct phrase is: If my uncle had female body parts he'd be my aunt!

It would appear that there is a really big dog in the middle of Texas with a square ass, 'cause we've certainly found a big block of his sh!t here on First Read.

Un-sung:

Feisty prefers to be underneath the teabags, not on top of them. I know, I know, that's counter-intuitive but really, it's true.

On a more serious note: Can a governor be recalled if he is acting within his authority? Wonder what New Jersey's laws actually say about that.

And there is the dick I've come to love! ;0)

Do you have something to contribute to the debate other than your snarky one liners?

It's not like I want you to hurt yourself or anything....

Paul:

Maybe you should turn your mother sometime, that way you won't have to look at a block of sh!t.

Be gone, little twerp....

Hurricane----

"paying for something up front"? What about the unfunded Bush somethings?

Like wars, tax cuts for the top 2%, prescription drugs on medicare?

Oh, that was ok....... only now you are in favor of "pay-go"! The Repubs in Congress aren't!

But But But..... we are not supposed to mention 'you-know-who', chilled!

's bad for bidnizz.

Oops, my bad, DBO!

Now you will really see what will happen in your own states if you give in to them. Hopefully they will use common sense like Jew Jersey is doing.

Well said Kevin: Now you can go out and buy yourself a horse and buggy...and give it to your grandkids.

Then we should be on our merry way to a better economy after the first and second tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 totalling $2.5 trillion rather than the bailouts and gradual to becoming huge deficits that culminated it in 2008. Even the $1 trillion we spent on Iraq should have been small potatoes next to the huge boost to our economy and jobs from all the private jobs we created while not expanding infrastructure to support them (and having failure of bridges and light).

When will teabagger learn that public and private sector growth go hand in hand and in balance and not one without the other (how many times does this country need this theory of less and less government be debunked?)

Ron, Indiana -

Your post on almost this same topic over on First Thoughts this morning was spot on. And yet some people still insist on taking their country "back" instead of "forward". Kinda makes you wonder where their priorities are (even though they like to say it's their grandchildren.....)

Private sector growth has to exceed public. Private is where the public gets its money.

Private Sector takes the funds out of the country as well, and or sits on truckloads of cash. How well does the private sector do paving our crumbling roads?How many pink slips did the private sector hand out the past couple of years when it was not necessary to do so?

Alan, NJ

so are you calling it a 'tunnel to nowhere'? i don't know the specifics of the project but do know it's a bitch getting into manhattan from new jersey - seems like any little bit would help a LOT!

Long quote but it covers why this has become a political project rather than an infrastructure issue. i also did not know that NY state nor NYC were paying nothing. But basically it is a tunnel to nowhere as the terminal infrastructure in NYC would have to built from scratch.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20101015/STATE/101015027/Advocates-NY-NJ-rail-tunnel-to-cut-commuting-time

"Over the years, the cost projections have nearly doubled. It started at $5 billion in 2005, and federal officials required NJ Transit to increase the total by $1 billion in November 2008 to provide for contingencies during construction, which is supposed to be completed in 2018.

Federal officials put the price tag in recent months at $9 billion to $10 billion. Christie this month estimated the cost at $11 billion to $14 billion, though Lautenberg said Thursday that figure was likely far too high and included replacement of the 100-year-old Portal Bridge in the Meadowlands.

The senator was repeatedly asked Thursday whether a federal or state agency might be asked to pay for overruns. Lautenberg declined to say so, though his staff confirmed that he had spoken with an unnamed financial firm about possible private funding.

Instead, Lautenberg recited a litany of reasons why it's crucial to go ahead with the tunnel: It will create 6,000 construction jobs in an industry with unemployment hovering at around 50 percent; it is environmentally responsible to invest in mass transit and get cars off the road; and it gives the region added protection against an act of terrorism disrupting a major commuting route.

"This is a very positive project for New Jersey and the region," Lautenberg said. "We are already near capacity with the current 100-year-old tunnel, and demand for rail service in New Jersey to midtown Manhattan is expected to double over the next two decades."

Neither New York City nor Albany have offered to help pay for the project, called the ARC (Access to the Region's Core) tunnel.

The RPA report was criticized by the New Jersey chapter of the Sierra Club, which has backed the tunnel's original route to Penn Station as a better alternative than the proposed deep tunnel that ends in a station 150 feet below 34th street.

"Instead of trying to figure out how much time would be saved from the ARC Tunnel, the RPA should try to figure out how to save money on the project," said Jeff Tittel, director of the New Jersey Sierra Club. "Instead of trying to fix the ARC Tunnel so it goes to Penn Station and the east side of Manhattan, they keep defending what's wrong with the tunnel."

Tittel, as well as the Regional Working Rail Group and New Jersey Association of Railroad Passengers, advocate sending the tunnel to Penn Station, which would allow Amtrak trains to use it too and save about $3 billion.

NJ Transit officials said that geological conditions and new city infrastructure forced them to rule out the Penn Station tunnel route."

Couldn't agree with you more, Alan. I love these people who don't live in NJ, but love to tell us how to spend our tax dollars. We have the highest tax structure in the US for a reason....it's called OVERSPENDING! Any government, whether it be town, county, state or federal, should learn to live within it's budget, but the people running those governments generally don't care because it's not their personal monies their spending....it's ours! Any of us, as individuals, should certainly know by now (especially considering the economic crisis we're in) that overspending can mean losing all that you have. Just ask those people who have lost their homes and other possessions. In fact, I'm sure a lot of people criticizing Chris Christie are trying to go through life in that same mode......trying to purchase champagne on a beer pocketbook! Chris Christie is doing his best to try to look out for the people of this state because he knows that we can't tolerate this tax structure for much longer. So he's trying to do all he can to spend less and balance the state budget, and all he gets is grief. If he allowed this tunnel to go through, we all know that he would get grief for that as well, but rightly so. It's purely speculation as to how much revenue this this might bring in, and yet it's a project that along with costing a great deal of money to build, would continue to cost a great deal of money to keep running after opening. Could be like the bridge to nowhere! Let's give Christie a pat on the back for daring to do what he feels is right for the long-term outlook for New Jersey. We applaud him and would certainly vote for him again in the future.

FY

I don't think people outside of Jersey understand the effect this governor is having on the state. He talks straight and treats voters as adults. I am basically a Clinton/Gore democrat. Didn't mind Bush 1, hated Bush 2. Actually agreed with McGreevy even to the tax on toilet paper, hated CT Whitman; she started the fiscal shenanigans. When Corzine was elected I thought that this was a good sign as he had actually worked in business and could formulate a budget without the myriad of accounting tricks of his predecessors. Well he was more of the same and then found out that he couldn't buy an election (note to current democrats complaining about money in elections...it doesn't buy success). Christie has been a scent fresh air. he has exposed the relationship between public unions and politicians, both of whom have been ripping off the taxpayer. He has spoken to the electorate as adults saying that there has to be pain because there's no more money....something that neither national party has the b*lls to do. Is he perfect, no of course not. But if he runs in 2012 he will be a formidable opponent because right now he would carry NJ.

Alan, it has been a couple of years since I was living in Jersey (Mahwah), and I am going to take your word for what is going on there. I know the tunnel system pretty well, and I liked going to NYC on NJ Transit trains (to the PATH train to 34th st in NYC). It was easy and convenient.

As i said, I do not know all of the issues around the tunnel, and I know that digging ANOTHER tunnel to Grand Central or Penn Station would cost a mint (Grand Central has trains nested 10 levels deep). Let's hope that the Gov. is making the right decision.

Maybe he will revisit this in the future?

Still is. Although it is correct to say there is only one rail tunnel that runs from Penn Newark to Penn NYC there is the PATH system which is superb and has been recently modernized. The other thing is that Hoboken is a major rail terminal which has easy PATH and ferry access to NYC.

They did build a junction at Secaucus, named after Lautenburg, which is an amazing station and allow fast changes between lines. However, maybe through design, there is no parking so you can only get there by train. If you could drive and park to catch the train to NYC from there it would be a great help.

From all of you NJians who know the full story, it sounds like this was the right project executed badly. It sounds like there is a real need for this tunnel but that it was being built to the wrong location in NYC. It also seems that NYC should be participating in this fully. Cancelling it may have been the right thing to do but hopefully a replacement tunnel is planned and executed.

This project may be not be in my state but it does affect my pocketbook. The US economy does not exist in 50 separate vacuums, every state's economy is intertwined and affected by every other state's economy (not to mention that pollution doesn't respect state or a country's border) so every citizen has an interest in this project.

Anyone calculate how much diesel will be burned producing this green tunnel?

Jeff, well said coming from someone actually in the business of construction estimation. Not all projects are well thought out or planned and the Governor may have seen warning signs in the design that would have driven the cost way over the original estimate. Witness the Boston Harbor tunnel project that litereally became a financial boondoggle for Massachusetts with costly unexpected setback after setback.

If you look at my reply to a previous post above the estimates had already grown from 5B to around 9 - 11B by the feds and 10 - 14B by the state, with the state the only entity responsible for the over runs. NY/NYC were not on the hook for any costs and as I said there is current terminal where the tunnel ends.

How about only entering into contracts where the costs have been estimated correctly and there is a limit on over-runs? I understand how complicated this is but couldn't they get fairly close? In today's economy, I would think there would be people lining up to get even a fixed price contract.

It boils down to this:

There are pros and cons to every project so the Governor seen more of a downside than an upside to this project.

But I thought he said "potential" cost over runs. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the word potential also mean that there might not be severe over runs?

So the thought process in this decision we shouldn't do anything if there's a possibility of it going bad?