LouisJ

I still don't understand how these guys continue to support crazy folk like the other O'Donnell.

Could it be the pessimistic doom and gloom meme (read President Obama is destroying America) is littered with supporters seemingly whose brains are the size of mice .

"TEA baggery is a mental issue that will be examined for years to come."

Are you referring to the sexual practice favored by some in the San Francisco area?

I'm referring to the TEA baggery of people that wear TEA bags on their caps in the name of the Republican Party. Isn't that what the TEA partiers represent? TEA bags? If not, then they shouldn't wear TEA bags from their caps.

Irony is lost dept.#276

Archie (Louis) hates bigots especially those stupid polacks...:)

CU Farley

Are you referring to the sexual practice favored by some in the San Francisco area?

It's not a "San Francisco" thing; it's a sort of alpha chimpanzee show of dominance used by some high school bullies against some student they perceive as weak or nerdy. It's in the same category of juvenile misbehavior as tripping someone as they walk down stairs.

Given the bullying behavior the Tea partiers exhibited in town hall meetings on health care last year that got them their initial notoriety, it's a fairly apt label for the Tea Paritiers. And they used the term themselves before anyone else did. One of TPers actually said on TV: "tea bag them before they can tea bag you."

MICE! Your right Beverly. Mice with human brains. Just like O'Donnell predicted. What a brilliant fortune teller,{of course she is a Witch, right?)

Got to love these Repugs.

California Tom

MICE! Your right Beverly....

_________________________________________________________________________

presented without further comment...

The mice got your tongue Dangerfield? I guess O'Donnell almost got it wright, she just had it backwards, in stead of mice with human brains, it's the republicans with mice brains now I get what she was talking about she was just confused.

guess O'Donnell almost got it wright

___________________________________________________________

Again, no comment needed...

dangerfield

guess O'Donnell almost got it wright

___________________________________________________________

Again, no comment needed

Wow, I guess you don't need to give US another poll either?

IR:

I agree. Education in this country is going into the toilet. The Community College is a very important resource that often gets overlooked. For example: Nurses can get the same RN certification that is available through 4 year colleges. They are RN'S in every sense of the word. Granted they would not likely become managers (most hospitals want a 4 yr degree for that - ?? Why). They could not be officers in the military unless they get their BA/BS for the most part. But there are tons of high paying jobs you can get with a 2 year degree.

We spend more per pupil on education than any country and the results are just dismal. Drop out rates going up, fewer graduations at both the high school and college level. We used to rank #1 in Math and Science, now we are down in the 20's. THe No Child Left Behind Bill became the NO Child Brought Forward Bill.

Quality Education must be made available to every child in this country, not just the wealthy. This is the road to prosperity pure and simple.

Our local community college here in western Pa. has so many creative and different programs--and not just for kids right out of high school. We have a program that helps displaced homemakers (for example women who have been stay-at-home moms and need to re-renter the job force due to the economy or divorce) and many other programs. I hope the summit identifies the best of these programs around the country and helps get out the word.

Another difference between the Dems and Republicans, in my view. Could it have anything to do with the fact that community colleges tend to serve lower income folks?

Independent Redneck Va.

Thanks for the positive feedback

Since they aren't getting their cut and can't make money on it they no longer care about it and are trying to convince folks that we either don't need it or that we can't afford it. How is our society going to move forward without investing in education and training so that we and our children are better prepared to deal with the challenges that lie ahead.

From my vantage point I see a twofold answer

a) They are greedy and selfish and will do anything to recapture power including sitting on their wealth; rather than provide jobs for America. If they create an environment of pessimism and uncertainty, it will allow them to continue their status quo of their private conviviality.

b) They're mostly Republicans who are jealous of the man in the Oval Office and can't accept change.

Here's a bit of News, you won't hear on 1st Read. A Northern Georgia Federal Judge, appointed by Ronnie Raygun in 1988, had to step aside while he's being investigated for Buying Cocaine, Pot, Roxycodone, from a Stripper he met in an AtlaNTA StripClub. The Judge would give the Stripper $$ to purchase the Drug's, even gave her a PillCrusher to crush the RoxyCodone & together they'd Snort the Cocaine & RoxyCodone.

Gotta love that NO legislating from the bench crowd.

Great post, IR, and so true. Community colleges have always provided education beyond English and Math and into vocation for kids who like working on cars, or fixing things. They provide training in new fields for older people. Education is the key to the future for every child and continuing education for adults in this rapidly changing environment. People do not have to become rocket scientists, doctors, engineers but without education, they will never achieve their potential. Community colleges are where we go to learn how to use the latest computer programs or take an art class or a creative writing class.

Good morning folks:

Usually, I agree with the posters who lean to the left of center, but today we have a serious difference of opinion.

In the past, the focus of community colleges was on vocational education. Today, that simply isn't the case. After all, people who work with their hands are pretty disgusting, no? I mean all they do is build our homes, work on our cars, bring food to our tables and other such trivial enterprises.

What we really need are people who can productively sit in front of a computer terminal for eight hours. Please! These people have completely transformed the community colleges, and then when they finally graduate from a four-year school, they are loaded with debt and can't understand why employers aren't standing in line to snatch up these wonders with their degrees in "Underwater Basket Weaving".

Hyperbole to be sure, but we really can't absorb more "workers" with degrees in Psychology, Sociology, Ethnic Studies, and the like. (I can't begin to count the number of times I have talked to people who base their majors on how few math classes are required. Let's remember, this is a country that gives us a large number of citizens who think you can cut taxes and still balance a budget.)

Worse, many of these "colleges" cater to students who are taking remedial education classes. You can check the stats. They're graduating high school, or dropping out, and then going to a CC to learn something they should have learned in high school. Come on! How many times do we pay for these classes?

CC's can be a wonderful alternative for overpriced four-year colleges, at least for the first two years. However, the trades are woefully neglected and we really need these folks.

Just like every other aspect of our failed educational system, Community Colleges need to be completely torn down and rebuilt to meet the needs of a world that is passing us by.

The "I got mine, too bad for you" crowd is real heavy into criticizing education these days, in many cases going so far as to say public education should be abolished entirely. They're missing that education is and always has been an American INVESTMENT in the future of our nation. If we slack on that we fill our society with idiots, essentially polluting our environment and killing the ability to be the vital, nimble, innovative economic powerhouse that is the United States. We become a heierarchical society where social mobility is a forgotten thing and many of the best and brightest are never even discovered.

David Walker - I think your post shows that we need to look at Community Colleges DIFFERENTLY; I do not think that we have a difference in opinion.

For many, Community Colleges are great for taking the require 'core' classes that you can transfer to any 4-year University for course study. I have noted that this seems to be the 'new' direction for Community Colleges to survive economically.

What we are not seeing a lot of are Vocational schools. Not everyone is cut out for (or wants to be in) Academia. There are some vocations that pay MORE than their academic counterparts.

What I think is needed, and I agree with David Walker, is a new outlook on schools and opportunities that schools prepare us for. Personally, I think that majors like Psychology, History, Sociology, Political Science and Philosophy are more 'classical' and less 'practical' in our world today, even though they provide a good basis for foisting structured thought and making (and defending) rational arument. Usually these majors are 'joined' with something else, usually business related (Business Administration, Accounting).

I think David walker makes a good argument for CHANGE. Let's hope that the new crop of educators recognise this and make the appropriate changes that will move all of us forward.

Education is this country because of the Teacher's Unions, not because of the Tea Party, Republican Party or any other party you want to name. Just a month or so ago, here in Southern Illinois, teachers threatened to strike because they couldn't get their 2.5 pay increase and 2.7 step increase included in their next contract, also they demanded 100% healthcare for themselves and their families.

Luckily their ridiculous demands were exposed by the local paper. When the union discovered how the public was against them, the negotaited a reasonable contract. I truely feel horrible that they have to pay 10% of their families healthcare costs (NOT) Now the teacher's union wastes time at the school board meetings whining about some of the teachers had to take a $600.00 A YEAR pay cut in order to pay their families healthcare costs. This time should be spent finding issues to problems in the school system. I have had several friends and neighbors who have taken $600.00 a month pay cuts to keep their jobs and these teachers are whinning over $600. a year.

Its time for it to be against the law for teachers to unionize, and tenure must be eliminated. Charter schools and vouchers are the way to go, you could see a big difference during NBS's Education Nation between the unionized teachers (who sit on their rear end and complain) and charter school teachers who are given the latitude to teach as they need.

I am proud to pay my property taxes for education, I have a Masters Degree in Aeronautical Engineering and if it wasn't for my elementary and high school teachers, I wouldn't be as successful as I am today, but teachers aren't what they were years ago, they only care about money and how they can screw the taxpayers.

I have to pay for my family's healthcare, I don't get a raise every year and I don't think my taxpayers dollars should go to ensure that these lazy union members should be getting benefits that I do not receive.

You know something Janet I’m getting tired of listening to that B.S. about how all the teachers are sorry and just show up a stand around all day because the unions will protect them and on and on and yada yada yada.

Do any of you’ll folks have any idea what it takes to be a teacher. A real honest to goodness educator. Well I do because I’ve woke up beside one for over thirty years. At least on the days when she didn’t get up before I did because there were papers to Grade. Or she had to get to school early to have a conference with a struggling pupils parent at the only time they could schedule it before they went to work themselves.

Then there was the years that she had to teach class with a student with A.D. on her lap because that was the only way to keep control of that student so the rest could learn and be safe. How about all the morning coffee that she had to give up during the week because not having an assistant she couldn’t get to the bathroom from 7:00 till 3:30. All that and all that time she worked longer hours than I did for half the money.

So please you’ll take that tired old pile of horse apples somewhere where somebody is going to believe it because I’ve been there and done that and you have no idea what it takes to spend one day in a classroom much less 30 years. As for teacher’s not being what they once were no they aren’t. I know several young ones just getting started. They’re better

John B, DesMoines IA:

"....education is and always has been an American INVESTMENT in the future of our nation."

John, you took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you for the post. Unfortunately those that scoff at education/higher education want immediate $$$ for their investments. They NEVER think about the future of OUR country. Sad

Education certainly should not be cut, in fact more funds should be allocated to education. However, until you stop jobs in this country from being outsourced, no amount of education funding will turn the tide. Getting back from a trade show last month I saw an alarming stat. Foreign students in engineering school in the US rose from 5-8% of the class in 1990 to nearly 30% of the doctorate science degrees and 63% of engineering degrees of the class in 2006. Not only are we out-souring jobs, but we are educating the "elite" classes.

At some point you will have to put in some form of protective measures that penalizes companies for outsourcing jobs and makes it more competitive to produce products in the US, ultimately bringing jobs back.

Great job, IR, responding to Janet. I am tired of listening to the right blame everything on unions--unions are evil, they hurt the economy. No, big corporations shipping jobs overseas and cutting pay for workers so they can make a bigger profit and then those workers can no longer afford the products they make are what is wrong. Since Reagan, republicans have done nothing except demonize unions. People should be asking why that is. Unions protect workers from the powerful and the greedy. Too many republicans need to educate themselves on just what unions have done for them because it is a lot.

I will vote GOP in this election and have donated to the Tea Party, Christine O'Donnell (I don't even live in Delaware)

Guess P.T. Barnum was right... something about a sucker being born every minute...

This administration in office seems to feel you can just throw allot of money at any problem and it will be fixed, they are dead wrong as we have seen what the Tarp money did for the economy, nothing at all.

Rondoslade2 - I disagree with your assessment of this administration where it relates to education. The fact of the matter is that Education is an investment in OUR future, and for the the past 20 years or so we have NEGLECTED that investment, just like we have with our infrastructure. We wasted/squandered that INVESTMENT money in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I will vote GOP in this election and have donated to the Tea Party, Christine O'Donnell (I don't even live in Delaware) and the GOP and I am sure many other Americans are doing the same. We need government to actually manage the programs it has, not create more and throw tax money at them to fix problems.

You also need some IDEAS to fix what ails us with our Education. You have a right to donate to the Tea Party and GOP - I encourage that.

However, are you SURE that your INVESTMENT in the Tea Party and the GOP will garner the result(s) you desire? From the GOP's track record, I would say no. We don't know the Tea Party's track record - yet.

@ Jody.

I have to agree that unions are not the issue. In fact, as an owner of a manufacturing company I support real living wages. Price pressure form very inexpensive imports is the largest factor when considering how to price a product in the market, and at what profit margin. And of course it is that profit margin that ultimately dictates employee compensation. Fortunately, we are more of a niche manufacturing company and are not as affected as other firms. And we stay away from mass marketed products because we cannot compete against Chinese imports, even if we set our labor costs to zero.

Independant Redneck

I don't care how hard your poor wife has it, she could have always gotten a different job instead of whining about the kid with AD. She doesn't deserve free healthcare for her entire family, and she certainly doesn't deserve a job for life due to tenure.

There are a lot of people in this country that work a lot harder than she does, they don't get a raise every year, free healthcare, and usually don't retire making 90% of their salary. So don't give me your crap about how hard teachers have it.

Feisty Redhead,

Roselle, Il.; I live in Illinois and the teachers are well compensated. After time in grade (working as a teacher) salaries rise and after 20 yrs six figures are not uncommon. That's right salary over 100k PLUS BENEFITS AND PENSION.

cdahl - you make some interesting points in the post above. Can you explain why, as an owner of a manufacturing company, didn't just OUTSOURCE the work to places like India and China?

From what I can see, your margins COULD be a lot better. I also understand that it would be an INVESTMENT that your company would have to make in outsourcing.

I guess what I am trying to understand is why you DIDN'T outsource. Seeing as how you are planning to vote Republican now anyway (I read your previous posts), I see no harm in asking that question. Why CONTINUE with American workers when you could be making more money outsourcing?

I don't care how hard your poor wife has it, she could have always gotten a different job instead of whining about the kid with AD.

My daughter is a special education teacher & NEVER went into it for the money!

See once again it's NOT ALWAYS about your precious $$$ - it's about public service and MAKING a DIFFERENCE!

Judging by your response to IR - that's waaay above your comprehension!

Why all the anger there Babe?

Roselle, Il.; I live in Illinois and the teachers are well compensated. After time in grade (working as a teacher) salaries rise and after 20 yrs six figures are not uncommon. That's right salary over 100k PLUS BENEFITS AND PENSION.

Obvious you are not speaking as a teacher... only repeating what a friend of your cousin's boyfriends sister's mother in law told you...

BTW: My daughter left the state of IL to teach elsewhere...

Bulletin!

The stock market is on fire today! My 401k is looking good.

Where are the naysayers who predicted the market would crash under the weight of President Obama's economic agenda and Financial Reform?

Just asking!

RondoSlade2
Like every other government program I can think of, our education system is mismanaged and needs to be fixed, but throwing money at the problem is not the answer.

Agree. Efficiency in policy is key. Efficiency takes a lot of planning and foresight & FOR SURE takes a lot of rules. Simple axioms & 10 steps/rules too often have the problem of too much latitude in interpretation. It is well reasoned taht efficiency more often than not takes MORE regulation.

This administration in office seems to feel you can just throw allot of money at any problem and it will be fixed, they are dead wrong as we have seen what the Tarp money did for the economy, nothing at all.

That is an out & out lie. It not only pushed our GDP from "Depressing" at -1.3% in the last year of Bush (Jan'08-Jan'09) to +3% Obama's 1st year (Jan'09-Jan'10). But it almost Halved the percent loss on unemployment from Bush's last year to Obama's 1st(+5.4%Jan'08-Jan'09 as compared to +2.6%Jan'09-Jan'10). Don't forget with current projections to Jan'11, the Unemployment will FALL .1% in Obama's 2nd year in office. Perhaps small, but positive thinkers would call that leveling off. Seems to me the unemployment was rising during the Bush years. So BUSH with bi-partisanship support enacted TARP. So ALL credit & failure belongs to BUSH on TARP. BTW, Bailout has only cost us $310Billion so far with projected outlays at most being $390Billion. Far short of the Republican talking point that they held onto since it was enacted. The Republicans need to update their talking point, Congress passed a $475Billion cap on TARP last year anyway (Mark 1 for Democratic Congress). & projections with current market values of the US Government selling it shares abck to the openn market will net a lost of $50Billion for TARP. Go BUSH!

I will vote GOP in this election and have donated to the Tea Party, Christine O'Donnell (I don't even live in Delaware) and the GOP and I am sure many other Americans are doing the same.

I think you should deep down consider what you think would be good & what would be bad for this country as a whole. Not just the 10% unemployed on top of the 10% underemployed disgruntled masses. & I think we can all agree, over the last 30 years, the status quo has gotten us EXACTLY to this point. Do we want to put this country back in "R"everse?? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BrNJocQYWtw/R1RGTtWTP1I/AAAAAAAAAAY/l8IcY8aOU4s/s1600-R/national%2Bdebt%2Bchart.gif

We need government to actually manage the programs it has, not create more and throw tax money at them to fix problems.

Do you make more than $250,000/year?? If so then congratulations on a successful life. But as a Nation, I have to ask you please take a 3-4% extra burden so that we can start addressing this National Debt that stands over $13,500,000,000,000($13.5T). When Bush took office it was $6.5Trillion (Jan'02) & when he departed it was $10.63Trillion(Jan'09) You tell me who was trying to throw money at problems. Like Afghanistan, Iraq, Energy Subsidies, & also neglected the current programs to put them in the state they are in today SS, Medicare, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, etc

Keep this country in "D"rive this Nov.
Sponsored by Voters for Sanity
Who wants to got to a Rally??

Feist,

I've seen the w-2's

I have to agree that education is important, and we should invest in our children and future. But a lot of the problem does not stem from teachers or education itself, but the fact that parents do not take an active role in their child's life. When a large percentage of our population believes that it is okay for children to have children, they turn into parents before they have educated themselves, and therefore don't realize the value of an education. Because they are happy that they have someone to party with as their children get older. Or they are 30 something grandmothers because they don't teach their children birth control.

At one time in the country, family came first. Restore that thought and you will have a better, harder working society.

@ Pietro,

No problem.

1. First and foremost I understand that outsourcing our products actually is the fastest way of getting our designs into the hands of our competitors. India/China in our industry have a reputation of conveniently coming out with very similar products a few years after others in our industry shipped products overseas for production. Especially when those companies pull production back.
2. I have made is a point in life not only to get to know our employees, but also their families. Although we all have some level of greed, mine is not strong enough such that I would look at an employee or their children and try to expain why I fired their father/mother so that I could pocket a few more bucks.
3. Long term thinking, if I outsource, I lay people off. Those people can no longer make purchases, say for a television. That in turn lays more people off at the TV mfg company (ok poor example since none are made in the US). That Ex-TV Mfg person may be the person that purchases what we manufacture. A very slow and painful strangulation. Kind of what we see today.
4. In our organization, we show most of the management the profits. During the recession we saw net sales decreases in the 40% range. Yet we hired people, gave raises and added benefits. By encouraging strong and healthy employment the company got very dedicated employees in return. And we were able to come out with new industry leading products which have nearly brought our sales levels back to the pre-recession highs. Had we outsources those jobs, we wouldn't be the company that we are today.

All that being said, we still face challenges from imports based solely on price. There are a number of products we don't manufacture as accessory items for our own use in our own products because we can't make them for a cheap as we can purchase them from China. If a tariff were in place making those items more expensive, we would respond by manufacturing the products here. Meaning we would hire say 2 people to run the new equipment, and cut a purchase order to a US company for either injection molding or CNC machinery. Keeping the wealth in this country, not exporting it. Making our dollars work for us.

I hope that helps. And just to show you where I sit, I am a frustrated independent that has voted in the past from the far left to the far right. I liked Reagan and Clinton during their presidencies, and absolutely love our MN Senator, Amy Klobachar. A Democrat.

I guess these nutjob liberals need a forum they can have "First Crack" at to make them feel good about themselves.

Nevermind that it's not a realistic interpretation of majority sentiment.

Great post IR!

Great post Feisty!

Great post Judy!

Maybe someday you guys can work up the nerve to venture over to a more unbiased, realistic thread!

Or are you too comfortable in your little world to leave?

Curious: When you play golf, do you fill out the scorecard before you play?

That way you can eliminate any surprises!

cdahl - thank you for your response. It was most helpful in allowing me to understand your perspective.

Regarding the outsourcing - I can see where you have made a choice and I have to say that if I had the skills, I would be proud to work for your company. That is a very SMART thing that you are doing. I think that you have successfully balanced how you handle economic downturns in your company and I hope more people who have companies are reading your post.

All that being said, we still face challenges from imports based solely on price. There are a number of products we don't manufacture as accessory items for our own use in our own products because we can't make them for a cheap as we can purchase them from China. If a tariff were in place making those items more expensive, we would respond by manufacturing the products here. Meaning we would hire say 2 people to run the new equipment, and cut a purchase order to a US company for either injection molding or CNC machinery. Keeping the wealth in this country, not exporting it. Making our dollars work for us.

This passage also lends me to believe that you are acting as a good responsible corporate entity - one that respects their neighbours. I can see your ability to cultivate good relationships through your needs (and negotiation). It also seems that you are concerned about AMERICA and not as concerned about the 'global marketplace'.

All of that is good. Which brings me to my next question. As any business owner knows, there are political pressures that you have to deal with. In your case, you mentioned that you will have a host of new regulations and/or costs brought on by the Obama Administration.

How will a Republican Congress - one that will be stymied by the Obama Administration - bring you what you want? I realise that gridlock will stall the policies for a time, but inevitably you will STILL have to deal with the rising costs - due to policy - at some point, no matter who is in office.

As a businessman who is concerned about AMERICA, is gridlock the BEST option you have in front of you?

janet-489369

Independant Redneck

I don't care how hard your poor wife has it, she could have always gotten a different job instead of whining about the kid with AD. She doesn't deserve free healthcare for her entire family, and she certainly doesn't deserve a job for life due to tenure.

There are a lot of people in this country that work a lot harder than she does, they don't get a raise every year, free healthcare, and usually don't retire making 90% of their salary. So don't give me your crap about how hard teachers have it.

You know something Janet most of the time I don’t take the time and trouble to answer such ignorance.

I’ll say again have you ever worked in a classroom and been responsible for 30 children. She has. You said you had a Masters. So does she. As a matter of fact 90% of the teachers in my school district do. Did you ever have a problem standing up and asking for compensation from your employer commensurate with what you felt that you deserved for getting it. I’m fairly sure that you didn’t . Do you think that your masters is worth more than a teacher’s or the teacher didn’t put in just as many hours and just as much work to earn it as you did. No you’re just like the rest of the folks that spout this kind of unadulterated horse manure. You want the best you just don’t want to pay for it.

No she couldn’t get a different job. That was what she was and all she ever wanted to be. You and a lot of other folks don’t seem to realize that there are some folks in the world that get up every day to do something that they feel is worthwhile rather than for how much treasure they can get for it. Her treasure is the smile on a successful child’s face. Course that another thing you probably wouldn’t understand either

As far as whining goes I haven’t ever heard her do it. All she did was get up and do her job for 30 years so folks like you could tell everybody just how much you don’t appreciate her efforts and how you somehow think she has cheated you out of that meager pittance that you would have been willing to pay her. You need to get real and get a clue before you come here and spout a bunch of that drivel about something you obviously know absolutely nothing about.

cdahl: What would it take for you to vote for Democrats in November?

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative posts.

@ Pietro,

Very good points and I believe that I can see where you want to go with this. No a Republican Congress will not address the issues. They may push for small business tax exemptions which I fall under so they benefit my. Not in the income that I take home but with what I leave in the company for reinvestment (people, equipment, inventory). That that reinvestment actually help our employees income.

Obama lost me the day he was quoted as saying that the US steel mills would have to compete against Chinese steel when fighting for the stimuluos money, because of the WTO treaties. I was astounded that he went to the taxpayers and told us that he needs 1T from Americans to put Americans back to work. I didn't remember Obama telling is that he need 1T from Americans to put Chinese steel mills into production. Treaty or not. And because the US Steel Unions backed him I has assumed that he would put them back to work on the bridge projects first. That kind of decision was a game breaker for me.

Is health care needed? Absolutely. Preexisting conditions shouldn't even be a term. Should business shoulder the costs? For obvious and perhaps selfish reasons, I don't think so. If business does, why not take it a step further and ask business to cover the costs of education and road projects. After all, it is our future employees we are training, and they have to get to work, right? I am a firm believe in Tariffs. Companies will continue to oursource to pad the bottom line. Tariffs can lead to Fair Trade. Tariffs can take into account that the Chinese are not burdened by costs such as unemployment insurance, workmans comp, Medicaid, etc, and put those costs in that the same product made the US.

In this post, more money for education? Of course. Some posted less money for the military. All for it. Bring our troops home. Let some other country become the police force for the world.

So, is gridlock the best option for me? Yes, the best on the table because the Democrats are threatening to raise the taxes on my S-corp, the Republicans are not. The Democrats are adding good needed social programs, but then asking me to pay for it. The Democrats has asked for Cap and Trade, putting more cost into the products we make furthering our cost disadvantage against imports. And all of those costs do not affect my income, but that income of my employees.

(FYI, I am only against raising taxes on the income left in the business, I am not against a tax increase in my take home pay).

And I will leave you with this. In my opinion, no party is favorable to the small business operations anymore. Both seem to cater to what ever large corporation they can get a photo op with or a company which can donate tens of thousands vs. a couple of bucks. I am very dissatisfied with both parties.

cdahl. I enjoy your posts a great deal. You obviously think outside the box, beyond left or right politics, ask questions and want details. That is refreshing. My guess is that your employees respect you and enjoy their jobs. I worked at a company in San Diego where the owner always said his workers were what made the business a success and he shared that success with them.

I agree completely about penalizing companies that ship jobs overseas. The Senate republicans blocked a filibuster cloture vote on a democratic bill that would have done just that. Possibly there were issues with the parts of the bill but we will not know because the floor debate was blocked--for now.

cdahl: I understand you are voting in your own best interests; however, if you think about the party that strives to work the hardest for the common man and the common good, you would probably agree that is the Democratic Party.

If you are dissatisfied with both parties, why not vote for the party that wants to do the most for the most Americans?

@ Gail.

Truely, I have to look at each candidate. For the last 12 years or so I have been voting on character. This year in MN we don't have senators running, but we do have a tight governors race and the house race. It would be hard for me to vote for Mark Dayton (d) for governor because of the dominance the Dems have in our House and Senate. And they are calling for a 5% tax increase on the wealthy, and as an S corp I fall into that category (not what I take home). Giving the Dems in MN a free reign is a little scary to me.

I will have to look at the House candidate from my district and try to get a feel of where they stand.

No matter where I stand or vote this year, I believe that the import/export ratio will have to be addressed. Because if I am right, and when our economy doesn't come back the problem will be obvious. And if I am wrong, it will bounce back and we will be in happy times again. I'm viewing it as a win/win and honestly hoping for the latter. This recession has gotten old.

Thanks, cdahl.

Jody,

I really don't know what to think about the small business tax break bill that the Repbs killed. Half of me doesn't blame them because it is sound political strategy. The other half is furious. Since when have the political parties deciede that just because and idea is left or right it is a poor idea. Good policy is good policy. Unfortunetly, Washington seems to be sinking into the muck that it is built on. But I will keep an open mind. In fact there is a NJ Democrat that I listened to last week that was very intelligent and not afraid to tell the public how he saw different ideas, and most of them are not what the people want to hear, but reality. I really respect candidates that come out and have their own perspective, present a good argument and do not tow the party line. In fact, I have often voted for some not because I agree with their policy, but because of strength of character.

Have to get back to work, and thanks to the left for the nice words today. But I have to admit what we do here gets back to a form of greed. We simply learned years ago that not one person is more important than the other, and if we all treat each other well, respectful and support their families, we become a better company for it. And then we all are better off. Any other way and by reading posts on line I get the feeling that we wouldn't be whom we are today.

And I noticed that you are in IA, we are 59 miles north of IA on 35. If you ever wanted to stop in, the welcome mat would be ready.

cdahl - thank you for your very interesting post.

So, is gridlock the best option for me? Yes, the best on the table because the Democrats are threatening to raise the taxes on my S-corp, the Republicans are not. The Democrats are adding good needed social programs, but then asking me to pay for it. The Democrats has asked for Cap and Trade, putting more cost into the products we make furthering our cost disadvantage against imports. And all of those costs do not affect my income, but that income of my employees.

There are two points in your post that I wanted to query you about, but for now, I would like one final question for today regarding this post.

You've stated that gridlock, for you and your company, is the best option on the table right now. OK, fair enough. I cannot refute that because you know your situation better than I do.

However, as I stated in my post, at some point you will HAVE to deal with the political pressures that your company is facing. Voting for gridlock NOW would only prolong that 'pain' that you would be feeling. Please correct me if I am not reading this situation in the manner as it presents itself.

The thing that comes to mind is this - if you vote for the Republicans now, how can you be SURE that those same Republicans will not turn around and create a situation where you will have to pay more ANYWAY?

Please understand that I am only trying to understand your position and I really do appreciate your answering these posts.

As far the WTO issue, I need to do some research into what was going on there. I am not sure why the WTO has anything to do with US steel production, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there was some high-level horse-trading going on. I'll get to the bottom of it and get back to you.

"But I have to admit what we do here gets back to a form of greed. We simply learned years ago that not one person is more important than the other, and if we all treat each other well, respectful and support their families, we become a better company for it. And then we all are better off."

cdahl: That viewpoint doesn't necessarily sound like it comes from a place of greed. It's been proven throughout history that when you treat others well, you will receive like treatment...the old adage "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Thanks for being a businessman who lives by the Golden Rule. Live well and prosper!

cdahl, thanks for explaining your positions so carefully and clearly. You're obviously looking at things and thinking critically. Regardless where we fall on the political spectrum everything could benefit from more of that. While we aren't in the same place politically I agree with a lot of your analysis, it just makes sense.

You must be someplace up between Albert Lea and Owatonna, not that you're obligated to reveal that in a public venue. Nice territory up there, and I used to have a customer in Northwood, IA just south of the border.

Pietro

This is going to be a double edged sword for me. Below is one link to answer the WTO question and what I used to google it. I guess that I did a WTF at the WTO provision. I found it amazing that Washington asked the US Taxpayers to put US labor back to work, but Obama was standing by WTO that used the US taxpayer money, solely for the purpose of putting US people back to work, but the money instead went to China. Abiding by the WTO for the annual budget, fine. But for a stimulus package to put US labor back to work??? I just shake my head sometimes.

The other thing I found by googling as I did is the pressure that the Democrats are putting on Washington/Obama to push for tariffs. And this is all very recent. So I guess that I have to go educate myself before voting again. Either way I will vote for the candidate that is best for our company, because here that results in best for our employees.

So Gail, I may not be lost yet.

And Pietro, if you find anything contrary please do get back to me. I try to avoid political leaning sources and strive for 100% accuracy (and rarely achieve it). I will be the first to admit mistakes and the first one to change course if I am in error.

US President Barack Obama then promised that the bill would be amended to avoid protectionism. The final bill adds this line: "This section shall be applied in a manner consistent with US obligations under international agreements."

http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/wto.info/2009/twninfo20090212.htm

obama + wto + chinese steel + stimulus

USNR, the record deficits you mention are a gift of the Democrats and Obama. Nice try, though.

If something isn't done about Social Security, it will go bust. Lifting the income cap will not do it; for proof, look at Medicare. When Clinton lifted the income cap on Medicare taxes, it was supposed to make that program solvent for all time. Hasn't quite worked out that way, has it?

Social classes are created by the people who live in communities- and by societal mores. Am I happy with a lot of the prejudice I see around me? Heck, no. However, to blame one political party is just as prejudiced. Remember Eric? His homophobic rants were a disgrace- and he was a democrat.

Education in this country has been going downhill for years. I find it interesting that the decline neatly coincides with the D.C. Takeover. Why is it that anyone would assume that some Washington bureaucrat would know more about what a student in a local classroom needs than the teacher, parent, and local school board?

Did we not just saddle ourselves with enormous debt that was supposed to go to 'shovel ready' infrastructure jobs? Why, yes, I believe I did hear quite a bit about that. Didn't quite work out the way Obama said it would, now did it? Turned out to be a waste of almost a trillion dollars. Oh, and by the way, First Read won't mention it, but that four to eight hundred dollar tax cut you got last year? You have to pay that back NEXT year. Might hurt the Dem's chances, so it won't be mentioned here. Except by me.

People died in the financial collapse? Really? Did the stock market fall on them? Please- tone down the rhetoric.

As to unemployment, well, all I can say is that there is something pretty wrong with a system that gives people 99 weeks of benefits when there are jobs being done by illegal workers because American workers refuse them. Actually, it is disgraceful.

I know you believe that the world will end when Obama is rendered a lame duck, but it will not. Actually, if republicans do not retake the House, we just may be in for a fiscal disaster that will threaten the very existence of this nation. You might just want to consider that, before you go back to your Obama shrine.

Now I've seen it all!!! LOL NJNB telling Retired to 'tone down the rhetoric'...

I don't remember who said it yesterday but they're RIGHT you just can't MAKE this STUFF up!

I'll be giggling at that 'whopper' all morning!

nj,nb,nj

Sorry about your delusions; you need to go find some source to backup the drivel you spout. The deficits started growing in earnest in the early 80s, grew more during bush1 and grew the most during bush2. Where it is today is because of the flawed and failed policies of the last three republican administrations.

US Navy, terrific reminder. Why would anyone, except No Joe, vote republican?

Here's a tidbit for those who continue to blame the record debt and deficit on President Obama and those who believe republicans are not deficit spenders: Carter, 42%; Reagan, 189%; Bush 41, 51%; Clinton, 39%; Bush 43, 89%. Just look at which presidents did the greatest deficit spending--GOPers. Reagan really sold Americans a crock of bull--some shining city on a hill.

Nice try with the same talking points from before. Do you have any new ideas at all???

President Obama has a stimulus bill that worked according to CBO and most leading economist both republican and democrat. It saved 3.5 million jobs and added another 600,000 in the private sector.

He has created Financial Reform and Health care Reform

He has proposed numerous Job Bills, all of them opposed by your Tea Bag Party

He has proposed repealing DADT, again opposed by your party

Unemployment extensions, medical help for 9/11 responders all opposed by your party

An infrastructure bill that will ad 35,000 jobs for every 1 billion in investment opposed by your party

You guys want to cut Social Security, Medicare and Veterans Health care so your richest 2% can have a tax cut that gobbles up the majority of the benefits.

The current budget proposal of the republicans adds 1 Trillion more than President Obama's according to the CBO.

So what have you and your Republican/Teabaggers done for us this last 20 months. What, tell us, we would all like to know.

Why would anyone, except No Joe, vote republican?

Because they believe in the constitution, private property, self worth, independence and they don't need hand outs from the government.

US Navy Vet - I can only feel sorry for you. It's not even worth rebutting you talking points. Perhaps someday you will understand when the middleclass is gone (destroyed by the Republicans starting with Reagan) and all that is left are the very wealthy and the rest of us poor people. We will be a third world country with Republicans in charge tell all of us poor people that yes someday you too can be rich if you work "real" hard. In the meantime don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain sucking all your jobs and money away......

At the same time NJNB is telling liberals to "tone down the rhetoric" we get this gem: "Actually, if republicans do not retake the House, we just may be in for a fiscal disaster that will threaten the very existence of this nation. You might just want to consider that, before you go back to your Obama shrine."

I know consistency isn't necessarily something that conservatives (or liberals for that matter) are well known for, but is it too much to ask to not have a post that contradicts itself?

Laurie,

I think you missed my message. I am a progressive democrat and will not be voting republican any time soon. I think the republican party's agenda is the destruction of the middle class. We will be left with those that have and those that do not, period. Sounds like you are saying the same thing??????

Doper Baby answer to the question: "Why would anyone, except No Joe, vote republican?"

Because they believe in the constitution, private property, self worth, independence and they don't need hand outs from the government.

It would be nice if they let people like you fly on airlines that didn't have to operate under those burdensome Big Government FAA maintenance regulations and buy brands of food produced without those free-enterprise killing FDA food safety regulations and live in your own towns where the factories could operate without those burdensome EPA pollution regulations. It would give the Democrats a big electoral advantage since the wingnut population would be dramatically reduced.

As a person that voted for Gore, Kerry and Obama, I will be voting Republican because the Democrats, with the power they have today are not addressing basic economic concerns. Not that the republicans do, but at least they don't saddle my company with additional costs.

And until I hear and idea other than blame coming from the Democrats on an economic turn around, that vote will stay R for the first time in over 15 years.

I have to agree with Rhondo on housing.

Gee, I can go apply and get a home without actually proving that I have a job/income? And nobody in government saw this as a problem?

Hilarious-------- Another liberal poster proving that the liberals have a "Strangers in the Night" relationship, with the truth.

You beat on the tea parties because you see the end of your world approaching and know there is nothing you can do about it.

Every democratic program is predicated on taling money from the people that earned it and using if for their own ends or handing it to a 3rd party.

We do owe Mr. Obam one thing, he has convinced us that it will never change and that the liberals will never stop.

As soon as they have one freebie entitlement program, in place they will start on the next one.

After Nov. of this year we will stop the funding on the Obama insurance farce, until we can remove him from office , then we repeal the insurance farce and start repealing the programs that the dems used to buy votes with , for the last 50 years.

Those of you that have been living off of the backs of taxpayers, your life is about to get very difficult.

Liberals, stock up on booze or the herb of your choice, the next few years are going to be tramautic for you.

US Army Veteran - Retired

If you want to go back to the same failed policies of the previous administration – vote like a lemming and vote the same “party” you’ve always voted rather than thinking for yourself and researching the individuals who are supposed to be representing you.

If you want record deficits – vote for Socialism.

If you want to cut, repeal or privatize Social Security, Medicare and Veterans Benefits – vote Republican, if not realize that Together Social Security and Medicare will consume an estimated 60 percent of income taxes collected by 2040 and that everyone will be a slave to the taxes of the Big Brother government you created.

If you want to keep farming good paying jobs overseas at the expense of Americans – vote for higher Corporate taxes so businesses can clearly see they aren’t welcome here.

If you want a party that votes against every socialist version of job stimulus bill, but that provides tax cuts for small business etc.- vote Republican

If you want to create new social classes with different rights based on sexual orientation or Religious Beliefs – don’t vote.

If you think that the obviously highly motivated person still looking for ANY work after 3 YEARS, still needs unemployment payments on your hard earned dollars– vote Democrat

If you want more Socialist Morality in every aspect of your lives dictated to you by the Big Brother Government so you’re all good little slaves – vote Democrat

If you don’t want over 50% of all the tax revenue you’re using to pay for your Socialism which the Government receives from the richest 2% of the people to stay here - vote Democrat and they’ll leave in this country.

If you want the continued unaccountable Teachers Unions to continue to fail the children of this country because they aren’t accountable to any standards or evaluation - vote Democrat

If you want Liberty to continue to crumble and put people’s lives in jeopardy – vote Democrat.

Retired,

I am grateful for your service to our country, since those who wear the uniform are the most important people that our government hires.

But,

He has created Financial Reform and Health care Reform

Why is it that in a health care reform bill that we now have to fill out a 7 page form for the gold that buy. What does the government knowing where our gold is important health care? That is the problem with all the ideas in Washington--they add crap to the crap they try and sell us. Now I have to spend precious time out of my day telling the government that I own gold. How many more things are in the health care bill that we haven't found out about? That controls our life, because you and those liberal buddies of yours believe that they know best. Well they don't know how to take care of me or my family. You keep allowing them to control your life and someday, when the rest of us are fighting for your right to live free. Too bad that you have such a negative outlook, but then again, being in the military was just what you might have needed. Someone to command you.

Ed Shultz? Al Sharpton? They make you proud? One is a mentally unstable host of a show that nobody watches, the other is a notorious racist, rabble rouser, racial ambulance chaser and anti-Semite who has caused death and misery and racial division for the last 20 years (see Freddy's Fashion Mart AND Crown Heights Riots). Good for you Pat.

Some people are apparently so clueless they don't even know how much damage the communist/socialist rally last weekend will do to the Democrats. I like it that way. I put it right up there with Paul Wellstones funeral.

I have always thought that most Americans are optimistic, positive people. The past years of economic turmoil, war and divisiveness have eroded that somewhat so it is good to see people being positive and forward looking.

I thought of you this morning Pat when I saw a promo for a show about the Red Sox amazing comeback--on ESPN tonight at 8. I think it is called 4 Days in October. That was truly a performance for the ages.

Ed Shultz and Al Sharpton????? These are two of the biggest attention goons in America.

I see MSNBC is finally coming out of the closet officially. We all knew they were a liberal station without all of the deceptive tag-lines........The viewership will not increase because nobody watch the channel anyway except for a few clowns in here.

Pat,

All I saw were socialists, communists, unions driving jobs overseas and trash! What crowd?? No one showed up?? You lefties are in real trouble Nov 2nd!!!!!

I cannot express my complete and utter shock at the news that MSNBC is actually a liberal outlet! Will it next be revealed that water is wet?

"All I saw were socialists, communists, unions driving jobs overseas and trash!"

________

Wow. Just wow.

Joe, care to sign a petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide? It's a chemical agent found in virtually all our industrial processes, food packaging plants and is even in your home and all around you right now.

Cheers to MSNBC. If the right can have their own TV network, the left has the same right. There is one big difference: MSNBC does not make up stuff, they report the truth.

I wondered how long it would take for someone on the right to try throwing mud on the One Nation rally--surprised it didn't happen yesterday. Must be annoying for the right to see thousands of progressives, liberals, moderate democrats marching and cheering. Must have been doubly annoying to see pictures of thousands of white, black, asian, hispanic, old, middle aged, young people representing all of this country. Yes, democrats are FIRED UP, READY TO GO. As for comparing the Becksters rally--that day there were numerous rallies on the mall including those groups honoring Dr Martin Luther King.

Boy that rally on the mall Saturday has really got no joe all blow and CU Farley all shook up this morning. Their running scared just knowing us Democrats are united and will kick their you know whats come November.

Hi Jody, Iowa

I wondered how long it would take for someone on the right to try throwing mud on the One Nation rally--surprised it didn't happen yesterday. Must be annoying for the right to see thousands of progressives, liberals, moderate democrats marching and cheering. Must have been doubly annoying to see pictures of thousands of white, black, asian, hispanic, old, middle aged, young people representing all of this country. Yes, democrats are FIRED UP, READY TO GO. As for comparing the Becksters rally--that day there were numerous rallies on the mall including those groups honoring Dr Martin Luther King.

That is so true; Jody. FOX has not talked about it yet; but, it hasn't stopped people like CU Farley who says...

Ed Shultz? Al Sharpton? They make you proud? One is a mentally unstable host of a show that nobody watches, the other is a notorious racist, rabble rouser, racial ambulance chaser and anti-Semite who has caused death and misery and racial division for the last 20 years (see Freddy's Fashion Mart AND Crown Heights Riots). Good for you Pat.

CU Farley

Yes they do. they both are progressives not afraid to go the extra distance to fight for economic and social justice such as ...

unions, teachers, firefighters, police, the middle working and poor classes, the environment, FDA regulation, financial reform, education, religious tolerance, homophobia, sexism, racism, ageism, and other civil rights as well.

Some people are apparently so clueless they don't even know how much damage the communist/socialist rally last weekend will do to the Democrats. I like it that way. I put it right up there with Paul Wellstones funeral.

FYI: Communist have been following groups around for over 100 years; particularly Black groups. Did any communists /socialist speak on the podium? No they didn’t. After all, this is a free country. The Tea publican TEAPOT is supported and bankrolled by the Koch Brothers and Karl Rove's billionaire's club who suport sociopaths like militia. There is no comparison for this group which advocates violence and anarchy to Socialist/communist. Therefore you have no rational argument. If, you don’t believe me, just ask the nut bag Tea party candidate Sharon Angle. talk about her 2nd amendment remedies.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/09/30/jk.rise.of.militias.cnn

In Dr King's words... "Now, don't think that you have me in a "bind" today. I'm not talking about Communism.

What I'm saying to you this morning is that Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social, and the Kingdom of Brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of Communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both. Now, when I say question the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of economic exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated."
http://www.famous-speeches-and-speech-topics.info/martin-luther-king-speeches/martin-luther-king-speech-where-do-we-go-from-here.htm

J. Edgar Hoover's FBI to portray King as a Bolshevik the same as you righties portray the President as a Communist . the President is not a Communist. he is a Christian.

Communism will never survive in the Black Community. It is antithetical to the core beliefs of most Blacks. I bet you don't know way? Black Christians believe in God and have used that faith in God since slavery whether it was for rejoicing or to escape the drudges of slaver . That unshakable faith has endure to present day. The Black Church is the most powerful institution in its community I would argue. That's why all politicians will make their rounds to it during election. Communist do not believe in God.

Communism is a joke. It failed. Likewise so does yours and righties accusing the president and One nation as such.

nojonobo

I cannot express my complete and utter shock at the news that MSNBC is actually a liberal outlet! Will it next be revealed that water is wet?

Maybe next it will be revealed that Fox News routinely uses doctored videos to push their far-right agenda, writes paychecks for the major far-right presidential candidates (Huckabee, Palin, Santorum, etc.), and whose owner donates millions of dollars to the Republican Party.

MSNBC does have a "liberal bias," if you ignore Morning Joe, Chuck Todd, etc., who clearly lean the other way. Of course, like all good far-right conservatives, nojonobo is very good at ignoring facts that don't fit with what she wants to believe.

no joe, no bo, nj

I cannot express my complete and utter shock at the news that MSNBC is actually a liberal outlet! Will it next be revealed that water is wet?

Come on Now No Jo, a liberal Outlet ok, Hey they may be a liberal out let, but at least they don't tell out right lies. Fox news tell the same lies everyday. i stopped watching MSNBC 8 months ago because there view was at times one sided. but No Jo they don't tell out right lies.

Now lets go back to yeaterday, you posted me that Obama should have done Nothing when he took office about the economic mess we were in, no help for bank, no stimluas, nothing. basicly the same apporach Hoover took after depression hit. Right!!!

your approach you posted yesterday was Nothing is better than anything. then you went in to some things reagan did in 1987.

then i answered your post and i was alittle upset that you did not answer.

so i will ask you a series questions Mrs President, these question are being given to you after 20 months of no action from washington. remember No Jo your the president and responsible for 300 million people and the free world.

Your approach of nothing is better than any thing, over the last 18 months has caused,

unemployment of 25%.

Chase, citi, wells fargo, and the other major banks have failed and lending has stopped. the stock market is at 3500 and shows no signs of recovery.

chrysler, and GM has closed all there plants, and layed off hundreds of thousands incluiding sub-contractors tied to the auto industry. to date mrs presdient 1million people are now unemployed and will be for years to come.

families are forced to choose between paying rent and buying food, because you did Nothing, mrs president socal programs are broke and no additional funding is coming from washington. citys and small towns are on the brink.

crime rates have tripled with officers being killed nation wide at 6 per week. because of your nothing is better than anything policy, major citys as well as small town have cut there police and fire department by 2/3. and can't control society. officers are allowing many crimes to go un checked.

the public school system can no longer maintain existing facilities due to a completely shrunking property tax base. class sized are at 50 and growing. teachers are over whelmed with no support staff.

Given this mrs president, has the time come to get help to americans from washington in ther form of a stimulas bill and tax incentives for help small businesses. money to the states, or Do you think mrs president we should stay the course?

Now No Jo this would have been Obama press conference had he taken your advice and did nothing for the last 20 months. if he had taikn your abvice, as one of his biggest fan, i would have called for his impeachment.

breaking into the democatic headquaters in washington that lead to Nixon resigning would have been noting compaird to the Nothing is Better than anything policy you wanted and Hoover Did.

If you answer is yes do something, then why not have done something when you took office Mrs President.

see No Jo its easy for us to complain about what we did not like and wanted the president to do when he took office, but the difference here is that you or I are not responsible for 300 million people and the free world.

from Ed Schultz to Al Sharpton to all the unions and to all those who traveled so far in order to show America that we are in fact OneNation

I get a feeling the OneNation crowd is the same group that will be protesting the US's "austerity" program in a few years.

Thank you Pat, Mass.

Your post has brought out the typical right-wing rhetoric of hypocrisy and hatemongers. They cannot see the forest for the trees are in the way. The problem is that they are abundant, true believers of fear and hate.

Jeff. Great post; keep it up.

PAT ------- Yes , I'm sure that you were also thrilled by the signs of the Socialist Party and the Communist party.

Many times there seems to be littlew difference between them and liberals.

Jody, Iowa

Jeff. Great post; keep it up.

See Jody if you try putting a person in a real situtation, No Jo said yesterday that Nothing is better than anything. she told me that what the president has done in the last 20 months is any thing.

so last night i thought i would put here in the president position.

I'm was not going to blame anybody all iwanted to do is show her and others here that inaction (which many wanted including the republicans) would have lead to. i asked her yesterday to give me a plan for what she would have done, and she told me that she would have done nothing, because it would have been better than anything. well Jody i hope she answers.

Does anyone really watch MSNBC or even NBC anymore? Oops I did watch about 10 minutes of the Giants/Bears game on Sunday, long enough to see that NBC is reaching out to the TV audience with a new show. "Law and Order: Los Angeles" boy there is a break from the norm. How many L&O shows do they have now? Probably about as many CSI's that CBS has. Original thoughts there boys and girls.

Feisty:

They are keeping their mouths shut for a good reason. Karl Rove's play book says if you have no new ideas and the ones you have suck, then you are best served by saying nothing. That way nobody can come back at you.

That is not good for the American people because now we have no way of knowing what that person stands for and are their goals the same as mine??

The political stage has changed. It is no longer about what politicians will do the help this country. It ia all about them (the politican), mone and power. The he!! with the country as long as they get theirs.

This is not going to change anytime soon I am afraid. I suspect it is going to get worst long bfore it gets better.

Just look at the nut jobs out there today, and people are going to vote for them. We get what we deserve, good or bad.

Yes I saw the One Rally on TV this weekend, they looked like a bunch of slobs with disgusting signs. I thought unions and liberals worried about the enviroment, sure doesn't look like they care by the amount of trash they left on the mall. Nothing but a bunch of whining pigs

janet-489369

Yes I saw the One Rally on TV this weekend, they looked like a bunch of slobs with disgusting signs. I thought unions and liberals worried about the enviroment, sure doesn't look like they care by the amount of trash they left on the mall. Nothing but a bunch of whining pigs

What you didn't see was all the garbage the nutjobs at Beck's "Dishonorable" rally left behind because FOX NOOSE didn't put their cameras on it for you lemmings to see.

What you didn't see was was all the garbage the nutjobs at Beck's "Dishonorable" rally because Fox didn't their cameras on it for you lemmings t see.

Now Bev... I know you're not insinuating that Faux Noise would EVER distort the facts now are ya? *insert snark*

GOD forbid! lmao...

Speaking of disgusting signs... did I miss something? I didn't see any of President Obama portrayed as a witch doctor or Hitler... Hmmm I wonder why that is?

Oh WAIT... I know... because the signs at the One Nation rally were calling for equality for all - better education and so on...

Feisty

Speaking of disgusting signs... did I miss something? I didn't see any of President Obama portrayed as a witch doctor or Hitler... Hmmm I wonder why that is?

Oh WAIT... I know... because the signs at the One Nation rally were calling for equality for all - better education and so on...

You didn't see any of those witch doctor signs on FOX NOOSE either ever since FOX got a real live witch craft practitioner. They needed to have Cristine McDonnell put on a spell for FOX Noose; as in practicing keep her D@mned mouth shut. Sarah should be D@mned too. LMAO at FOX's penchant for the unnatural.

John Doe 23,

So you are holding yourself accountable for the actions of the previous administration, and it's second term... no question.. just fact.

"We are smarter than that."

No we ain't.

w bush:

lol

I think that we are. I think that one big problem is that the Democratic Party is always playing defense, always debunking a lie, and never leading with the truth.

When someone tells a lie about you and you don't try to defend yourself, folks believe the lie.

When all folks hear about the stimulus bill is that it didn't work, even when it did work, they are gong to believe.

When all folks here is how the deficit is growing, but nobody is telling them who is really responsible, they are going to believe it is those currently in power.

It is time for the Democratic party to take their message TO THE PEOPLE. Explain what is going on and why, and not always be saying "we aren't going to kill your grandma" and "but we CUT taxes" . . .

Let's go on OFFENSE for a change!

Amen, Nashville Fan----great post. Our people and their abilities have made us the great nation that we are and we need to remember that and keep the best and the brightest of us--who are a reflection of us--leading us in Washington.

I hope those progressives who have been on the sidelines listen to folks like Ed Rendell when he reminds us of what has been accomplished to date and to keep fighting for our agenda.

Well said. We are smarter than that--at least the huge numbers of us who find Beck, Hannity and those like them a brick or two short.

Sorry Jody but those two are a full brickyard short not just a couple.

I think there's something to be said on both sides of that statement, Nash. I believe we SHOULD be led by the best and brightest among us, but we've been sold a preference for "a regular guy we can sit down and drink a beer with" instead of "a policy wonk who knows all the details." So to that extent it means something to not be taken in by people who have imaginary conversations with the Founding Fathers and argue about who believes in science the least.

At the same time Americans, when taking the effort to inform ourselves, are the best and brightest even when we don't all agree. It's hard to live up to that level of discourse when the Conservative Movement has moved far from the intellectual roots of Buckley and Goldwater and into a world where ignorance isn't just bliss, it's entitlement.

John B, Des Moines, IA

we've been sold a preference for "a regular guy we can sit down and drink a beer with" instead of "a policy wonk who knows all the details." So to that extent it means something to not be taken in by people who have imaginary conversations with the Founding Fathers and argue about who believes in science the least.

LOL, talk about having very little knowledge; I couldn't agree more.

Did you see where Hannity gave Boehenor his usual handjive? He asked Boehner about his relationship with Obama. The tan man said...

"I come in and he'll say 'Boehner you are almost as dark as me,'" Boehner said. "Listen, we talk about golf. We'll talk about our skin color. We have a nice relationship. The problem we have is that when we talk to each other, there's no connection. I've got 11 brothers and sisters, my dad owned a bar. I was a small business guy long before I got into this business. When I talk about the real world, it doesn't seem to register."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/john-boehner/2010/10/

Doesn't connect to reality? Wow, talk about disconnected the President 's mother struggled to raise her kids while on food stamps. The President gets it. That's why Wall Street is not so unfriendly to the President anymore because the President is not a corporate shrill like the tan man!

Mo. You're right, it is a full brick load short.

I watched that town hall on Muslims in America as well Amy - it was fascinating and riveting!

There was no denying that it's FEAR & ANGER that is driving that anti-Muslim agenda - I couldn't believe how those on the right didn't even attempt to hide their bigotry & discrimination!

Speaking of discrimination - anyone else hear Jim Demented's comment about how he believes that gay & sexually active woman should be BANNED from teaching our children? YIKES!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL It was riveting, wasn't it? It made me proud to be an American, too, that we can all sit down and talk about these issues and learn from one another. When we get past this good vs evil mindset, we can have a real dialogue. I like that.

I agree completely. We need more in-depth discussions. I've watched 60 Minutes for as long as it has been on the air because of the time spent on one topic. Fareed Zacharia's GPS also spends more time discussing single issues, lengthy debates. MSNBC's education forum was excellent as was ABC's discussion on Muslims. TV should be used more to educate people; it is only through debate and education that we can move toward greater understanding and tolerance. My criticism of FOX is not that it is conservative but that it does not educate its viewers but instead uses half truths, outright lies to further the paranoia and fear of some. FOX does not enlighten its viewers, it degrades them and in my view, keeps them uninformed.

SteelerFan:

Right on. Unidentified donors (thank you Supreme Court) are donating record amounts of cash to the party's. I saw a number that claims 4 to 5X the money is going to the Republican Party. If you look at what they stand for Wall Street over Main Street, Big Business over Small Business and the richest 2% you now know where the money is coming from. Karl Rove's organization pledged 52 Million to the republicans. Over 90% of those contributions come from Billionaires (with a B).

This country is being sold to the the highest bidder and they are not the 98% of the people.

Big Business wants to replace the Federal Government and the top 2% want to control it. This is right out of a Science Fiction Movie.

No question about it. The Conservatives got exactly the top down influence they wanted when the Citizens United decision opened the coffers for deep pocket corporate and wealthy individual donors. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/03/AR2010100303664.html

Something to think about the next time a Supreme Court discussion comes up and someone starts blowing smoke about "strict constructionism" and "original intent." Conservatives in the legal world will find some intellectual-sounding argument to do exactly what's good for the wealthy every time.

So Congress should ban contributions from corporations and unions. Funny how you don't have a problem with unions spending 1 million bucks in the Washington D.C. mayoral election to defeat the incumbent mayor who was reforming the educaction system, do you?

janet I'm against ALL large contributions. As our system is set up today money isn't speech, it's votes. The Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch have more votes than I do so they get their way more often. WAY more often. Of course you'd bring the unions into it, Conservatives always do, but that's just a smokescreen for the fact that deep pocket Conservatives just blow away the resources of the unions. Allowing them to do that isn't just a difference of opinion, it's corrosive to our nation. The Citizens United decision, foisted upon us by deep pockets in the Conservative power structure and the 5 Conservatives on the SCOTUS is an attempt to put a nail in the coffin of our egalitarian, democratic society.

Janet - I am a "flaming liberal" and YES, there should be a ban on all monies from corporations and unions, no matter what level/location the election. It is the only way to get fair representation for we the people.

Janet--I am just as much against unions making large political contributions as I am against anyone else doing it. I am especially concerned about the ability of foreign interests to make contributions without scrutiny--I don't care which side they are on.

Pietro: I was fascinated by that story as well. That looks like a small community, much like the one I live in. I was trying to picture myself sitting on a truck, watching a neighbor's house burn. Can't do it. I would have paid the $75 myself before I let that happen. It is a good metaphor for the Republican party, as you have said. They are content to watch America's house burn down rather than work with their neighbors, the Democratic party to help fix the economy. It is clear that the Republican Party is content to let America burn, for their own since of power, and to gain more power back. It leads a sane person to wonder why more aren't outraged about it. Add to it that "Chief Justice" Roberts has paid back his puppet masters by selling us out to the highest bidder, you have to wonder how ANY of these cretins sleep at night.

Pietro;

I hear ya. I live in a small rural town in Vermont and that would never have happened here. We do not let politics ($75.00) stand in the way of helping somebody in need. We just do what is right and that is it.

Again, it is all about those that have versus those that do not. We are becoming a class society more and more every day.

I hope that town makes the worst people in the world award on Keith's nightly show. Expose them for the repugnant people they are.

I saw the auto insurance comparison, they republicans try to justify everything even when it is moral and/or ethically wrong.

I have family that live in rural areas in Texas and they will tell you...if you dont pay, you get no services. Everyone that live in those areas know these things. Compassion does not pay bills.

If you go to the electric company and tell that lady in the booth "I am 3 months behind, can I have a little compassion"...I bet she will give it to you alright, pull that lever and you will be in the dark until that money is in hand.

About the story: You are assuming that because there are Republicans in office; they enacted that policy. How do you know it wasn't a Democrat who came up with the policy in the first place? It doesn't really matter who is in office, the law is the law....at least that is what you liberals preach.

Great post, Pietro. The homeowner was on Countdown last night and just seemed to be in a state of shock--who wouldn't be? I had the impression that it was an oversight that he hadn't paid the fee. Who among us hasn't forgotten to be a bill or mislaid it?

Although I don't agree with it, I can kind of understand the thinking of the Mayor & the commissioners in terms of budget issues, costs, etc. (there goes the accountant again) but I'm surprised that the firefighters on the ground could stand there and do nothing when they had the resources to save the property. And don't get me started on the innocent pets who died.

oops, typo: since should read sense.

Pietro, correct me if i'm wrong, but I think he Lost a couple GrandKids in this Fire also.

Took more than $75 to get out to Fire, Fuel, etc.

Sad story indeed.

Gotta Love Compasionate ConservatISM!

Pietro

I very rarely watch Olberman, but did see him interview the man who lost his house last night. A very powerful interview, Olberman just let the man talk and didn't interrupt or pontificate. It was pretty shocking that the firemen came out but didn't act to help him. The mayor and the fireman in particular should be ashamed of themselves.

It is pretty scary if this is the way that Tea Party and small government types want our society to run.

Fireman' Creed

When I'm called to duty God,
Wherever flames may rage,
Give me strength to save a life,
Whatever be it's age.
Help me to embrace a little child,
Before it is too late.
Or save an older person from,
The horror of that fate.
Enable me to be alert,
To hear the weakest shout,
And quickly and efficiently,
To put the fire out.
I want to fill my calling and,
To give the best in me,
To guard my neighbor and,
Protect his property.
And if according to your will,
I have to lose my life,
Bless with your protecting hand,
My children and my wife

Thank you ITM for reinforcing what we have believed all along...

Christian Conservatives are VOID of any form of compassion...

Empathy be DAMNED... it's ALWAYS about the 'precious' $$$ with your kind!

How ANYONE can stand and watch someones house burn down is BEYOND my comprehension!

*shakes head*

Fiesty,

There you go assuming shiznit as usual. You don't know how I feel about the situation personally, I just stated what is real and not make-believe. You and your ilk can imagine this perfect utopian America where everyone loves everyone at your own peril.

They watched that house burn the same way you watch black on black crime in Chicago. As long as it is in the urban area, let those ignorant .....kill each other. I know this is a dinner table conversation nightly for you and you can deny it all you want, but we know your best friend is black.

Saw this yesterday and didn’t get a chance to check on it further. There has got to be more to this story or a better reason for the lack of action by the Fire Dept.

I’ve lived rural all my life. Served as a volunteer fireman until age got me to the point where I couldn’t keep up with training that the service requires. Still help them out with fundraisers and maintenance and such. The idea that any of my local guys would set and watch a neighbor’s barn or shed burn much less their house just doesn’t square up. As a matter of fact I wouldn’t want to be the one that either told them they had to let something burn or tried to stop them from doing their duty because I believe that would be a precursor to somebody getting hurt.

The idea that somebody in these United States would let a neighbor’s house burn down over 75 bucks or any amount of money for that matter just doesn’t match up with any Community of Americans that I’ve ever lived in or would have been willing to live in.

LOL ITM... now you're a mind reader as well...?

Damn... that resume of yours has got to be about 50 pages by now! ;0)))

Who would of thought... a BBQ shack owner who's a part time psychic?

Do you do 'readings' tableside? lmao...

Thanks for playing...

Pietro:

The homeowner was on with Keith Olbermann last night and he did state that his homeowners insurance has been very responsive and he expects a new house out of this tragedy.

It did not have to happen because he stated that they (The Commission)have made exceptions in the past. He even offered to pay the $75 at the time of the fire! It seems just a case of him forgetting to pay the bill because by his account he has paid it every year before now.

Compassionate Conservatism this is not!

Great post, Pietro. Keith O interviewed the home owner last night. He said when he called that he told them he would pay whatever they asked; he also said that he just forgot about the fee. It made me wonder if homeowners are sent any notice of unpaid fire fees and do they have the same kind of system for police. I found myself wondering how any fireman could stand by and watch a house burn to the ground knowing they could have done something about it. What about the families who do not have the $75 for the fee? What if they are renters and the owner does not pay the fee? Apparently, they are just out of luck. This homeowner pays taxes and some of those taxes fund the fire department. Welcome to the world of pay us or else we won't help you side of conservatives without a conscience, a heart or a soul.

My town is not large. The city fire department is not the first to respond to fires outside the city, the rural fire companies are but the city sends help when needed; they do not quibble about who is in charge first, they all fight the fire together. There is no $75 yearly fee. It is part of the taxes we pay.

ITM, I cannot speak for Texas but in my town, if someone is having trouble paying their electric, gas or water bills, they can go to the local power company and work out a payment plan; and the utility company cannot shut off power or water during the cold winter months regardless. Our utility is publically owned by we the people.

Forgot to add one thing about Keith O's interview. The homeowner also said that this has been happening only since the new chief came into office about 3 years ago; the old fire chief would never have allowed it.

It's good to see the conservative republicans show their true colors. They don't practice what they preach. So much for compassionate conservatism.

I would like to know where in the story it mentions ANYTHING about Christian Conservatives. It didn't say anything about them anywhere in the story. You people don't know who inacted that law at all, it could have very well be democrats. I too, live in a rural area in Illinois, it is very clearly explained to you when you move here that these fees must be paid or you will not receive assistance when needed. D

I want to know where in this story it mentions Christian Conservatives, answer IT DOESN'T. I too, live in a rural area of southern Illinois, in a county that has been run by democrats and probably always will be. We too pay a fee for services and it is made very clear if you do not pay you won't receive services. If such a thing were to happen in this county I guess I could assume that a bunch of democratic athesist firemen watched the house burn down. Where I live, all local leaders are democrats, in fact they have just implemented a policy where if you have an accident in their town and not a resident of that town, you will pay for the fire and police services you receive. Christian isn't it?

Here is a little story for you that happened in my county which again is run by democrats. Happened about 3 years ago on Thanksgiving weekend. A police office who must have been a democrat (not hired in St Clair County if not one) was responding to an accident on 1-64. He was driving over 100 mph, talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone, and using his laptop. He hit the car two siste were traveling in, and killed them both. After a plea bargain, he plead guilty and received three years of probation. Oh I forgot to say that he had been involved in the same type of incident just a few years prior (thanks police union) By the way, the cop is now filing for workmens comp due to injuries he received during the accident. Somehow, murders shouldn't get workmen's comp.

So if I were to be like some of the posters here, I'll make the following assumptions.

All cops are democrats

All cops are incompetent

Democrats don't value life, its okay to murder people while on the job

No democrat is good at multi-tasking.

So these are very ridiculous assumptions, all of you should look at your assumptions before you post them. All Christians are not republicans, all Republicans aren't Christian Conservatives.

After the blaze, South Fulton police arrested one of Cranick's sons, Timothy Allen Cranick, on an aggravated assault charge, according to WPSD-TV, an NBC station in Paducah, Ky.

Police told WPSD that the younger Cranick attacked Fire Chief David Wilds at the firehouse because he was upset his father's house was allowed to burn...

I think that if the same thing happened to my family, I might have ended up 'arrested' for much the same reason.

Please excuse the double post. My computer locked up on me.

Okay... there seems to be a certain shortage of information here. Yes, it's an emotional issue- and, I'm not sure I could have stood by under the circumstances myself. I like animals, and they suffer far too often for bad choices made by owners with less intelligence than the pets they own. But you have to ask:

• Where was this guy's own water hose?
• Why was his grand kid burning unsupervised?
• Why didn't anyone there get the pets out?
• Was there a bond that got voted down, resulting in laid off firemen, old gear, fewer hours, and so on? This may be a really personal issue for these firemen- as in: "I lost my own home because my hours were cut back and I couldn't cover my mortgage anymore". Or: "I've watched other people lose their homes, kids, lives, and pets because we lacked the equipment or people needed to serve them."
• Why in the world did he think he could pay AFTER the fire started? If that were allowed, there would BE NO FIRE DEPARTMENT: nobody would pay, and everyone would go up in flames because no one was there to help them. Don Corleone, a politician to the core, said it best: "There must be consequences."
• Where were this guy's neighbors? Didn't anyone else want to help him out? What kind of a man would inspire that kind of universal "I wouldn't spit on you if your house were on fire" disdain?

Sorry- too many unanswered questions, and I have little sympathy for guys determined to star in the Darwin Award Ceremonies. $75.00 is cheap for a year's fire insurance, and it could have been his whole family, not just his poor pets.

Not paying implied either extreme idiocy or that he really didn't have much concern for the FD or the other services they provide, like fire fighting on public lands- fires that kill a lot more animals than three dogs and a cat- and it would appear the FD returned the favor to make a telling public point.

A fee based system also says a "lot" (pun intended) about the attitudes towards such services in their area. It implies "Of the Rich, By the Rich, For the Rich". Maybe next year's budget will be a little better, or maybe the next tax bond will pass... and the next fool unwilling to cover his own butt won't have to suffer for it.

Jody the war between the wealthy and the people is over, the rich won. The tax cuts for the rich will be made permanent, they will cut Medicare and Social Security to make up the difference, welcome to the United States of America, the land of haves and have nots.

w bush - the war is not over yet.

This tax cut mantra has gotten stupid.

You liberals claim that a tax cut is not paid for. The money belongs to the earner not the government. If the government never collects it, then it is never in he coffers. The government is not going in the coffers and sending all rich people checks as it is being described, so how can you say it is adding to the deficit?

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio--- "w bush - the war is not over yet"

Pietro the Supreme Court and Senate are lost, I mean honestly those two entities operate only to protect and expand the wealth of the wealthy, look at the Supreme Courts rulings the last few years, and the Senate, my goodness look at bill after bill that the House sends, good, honest bills that are fair for the people and business alike, the outcome without exception is always the same, the Senate turns them into a business friendly bills that disregards the best interest of the consumer, and if they can't get that done they just let them die. Now the people in their completely illogical genius are going to give the Republicans a majority back, Pietro I can't see anything positive on the horizon here, the best I can hope for is a grand awakening of the population that brings about Democrat gains in the House and Senate large enough to squelch the parliamentary shenanigans the Republicans have used to stifle our countries progress, my lack of faith in the American people to thoroughly analyze the situation before they vote is great, and the Supreme Courts decision to let Corporate America spend uncontrolled to brainwash the nation seem to be two indications that the America I remember and wished to pass on to my children is gone.

What BS, still defending the tax cuts for the richest 2%.

STTS

"IntheMiddle, TX

This tax cut mantra has gotten stupid.

You liberals claim that a tax cut is not paid for. The money belongs to the earner not the government. If the government never collects it, then it is never in he coffers. The government is not going in the coffers and sending all rich people checks as it is being described, so how can you say it is adding to the deficit?"

------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's good to know inthemiddle, so following that logic instead of just the rich not paying taxes let's just not collect any taxes from anyone since how much tax money is collected by the government does not effect the deficit, you should run for office and solve the deficit issue for all of us. Your real name isn't Boenher or Mitchel is it cause those cats think just like you do

w bush:

I see as usual that sh!t went right over your head.

You're excused now.

w bush - I will repeat what I posted - the war is not over yet.

Pietro the Supreme Court and Senate are lost, I mean honestly those two entities operate only to protect and expand the wealth of the wealthy,

Wrong. You cannot speak in the past tense when we still have elections. If we didn;t have any elections, then I would have to agree with you. The fact of the matter is this - if the wealthy DID have the 'in', why waste time with these pesky elections? The fact is that they DON'T have all of the cards, and they have to resort to 'tricking' you into giving up those cards.

look at the Supreme Courts rulings the last few years, and the Senate, my goodness look at bill after bill that the House sends, good, honest bills that are fair for the people and business alike, the outcome without exception is always the same, the Senate turns them into a business friendly bills that disregards the best interest of the consumer, and if they can't get that done they just let them die.

Agreed. This is because we, as an electorate, have abdicated OUR JOB to be vigilant and hold politician's feet to the fire. We have become lazy, inarticulate and distracted.

Now the people in their completely illogical genius are going to give the Republicans a majority back,

That may be the case, but we DON'T KNOW FOR SURE until November 3rd.

Pietro I can't see anything positive on the horizon here, the best I can hope for is a grand awakening of the population that brings about Democrat gains in the House and Senate large enough to squelch the parliamentary shenanigans the Republicans have used to stifle our countries progress,

w bush, who says you don't have anything positive to look forward to? You have articulated that perfectly above.

my lack of faith in the American people to thoroughly analyze the situation before they vote is great, and the Supreme Courts decision to let Corporate America spend uncontrolled to brainwash the nation seem to be two indications that the America I remember and wished to pass on to my children is gone.

Well, then w bush, it looks like you, me, and the rest of the electorate have some work to do. As an electorate, we have the DUTY to make sure things are running well for our country. We, as an electorate, have shirked that responsibility for MANY years. This is evidenced by only having 55% - 60% of the ELIGIBLE voters actually voting. Until that turns around, we will continue to have charlatans in office; we have them because we tolerate them.

As far as Democrats are concerned, the democratic electorate is ALWAYS complaining about how spineless the Democratic legislators are. Well, my feeling is this - spineless Democratic voters are the ones voting for spineless Democratic legislators, so are we surprised that the legislators are spineless when it comes to voting on the tough issues?

Remember to vote on November 2nd.

W Bush, I understand your disillusionment. At a point when we're told that the future is all for the Conservatives and it'll be a wave election it's easy to be disillusioned. Just remember this--it isn't over till you quit. I'm not going to quit. A lot of others aren't going to quit. The younger generation, those just entering the electorate and in their first few cycles are more liberal than they have been in several decades. I figure I owe it to them to hang on while they get engaged and get it done. What we're seeing is the last, desperate gasp of today's dysfunctional Conservatism. The moneyed interests will always be there, but they're a tiny minority and we DON'T have to just give up and let them run the aristocracy they so wish to establish.

So... if the uber-rich "won", they die too. Speaking in broad generalities every bit as accurate as those in current use on the far Right: They make nothing, they do nothing, they serve only themselves- and we are their hosts. We die without the sustenance they've taken- but they die without the sustenance we provide. If it's over, it's over for everyone- and we deserve it. I'm not done yet, put that damned fork DOWN.

So true Rusty, and I think that speaks to the short-sightedness of their point of view. It's all about the now, no thought to the consequences of starving the entire economy over time. I can get a bigger piece of the pie, yet lose in the end if the pie gets smaller.

Hey, if I had a car it would have a "Free Tibet" bumper sticker on it. Don't jump to conclusions about Liberals. PS. Nixon opened the door to China, blame him!

Why would China want invade a country they already own? The Republicans had China finance those two meaningless faux wars, remember? Or maybe Obama done that also?

Par for the course. Somebody mention China and CU Farley gets all scared and shaking in his boots. Something else to be afraid of CU as if you didn't already have enough.

CU Farley,

As a liberal Democrat, I live in an urban environment, Inland Pacific North West, where around 400 homes are within a square 1/2 mile with over 88% having multiple registered weapons inside, including mine... Bring it..!! Keep fear Alive...!!! March with Colbert... !!!

CU Farley:

Your emoticon is in violation of a copyright. "Despair.com" has it all locked up. And, speaking as a liberal, I rather dislike professional socialists- but find little worthy in xenophobic bigots unable to differentiate between them.I'll be seeing you at the polls- and BTW, if the best person always DID win, it seems likely your party wouldn't even appear on the ballot.

Mixed Bag - polls CHANGE - daily - so for you to use Nate Silver's quote as 'this is how it is' is misleading.

The Republican leadership is already trying to 'walk back' expectations for a 'bloodbath' in November. Those polls that are taken are just snapshots of how the electorate feels at a given point in time.

This election, I would admit, is too close to call. However, to think that the GOPers have a 'lock' on Congress is also premature.

We will have a better handle on this issue when we get closer to November 2nd.

The whole paragraph is more illustrative of Silver's hypothesis...

In Part I, I explored why our intuition may mislead us when it comes to forecasting the outcomes of elections — for a variety of reasons, we may tend to assume that there is more uncertainty in the forecast than there really is. In Part II, I demonstrated, by contrast, that a simple average of polls has performed very well over the past six election cycles in determining the winner of the contest. For example, Senate and gubernatorial candidates who have trailed by 6 to 9 points in the polling average with a month to go until the election have won their races only about 10 percent of the time in recent years."

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

With all due respect, Pietro...

I thought that Nate Silver's comments were relatively unambiguous in terms of the "big picture", and what it reveals.

I would note that the best political handicappers in the business...people like Charlie Cook, Stu Rothenberg, and Larry Sabato are all seeing the same thing that Nate Silver is.

Please don't be offended if I assign greater weight to their views of the likely outcome of the upcoming midterm elections than yours.

Mixed Bag - with all due respect to you - I just don't buy the argument you are espousing.

And I am not offend in the LEAST that you assign greater views to political handicappers than mine. I am NOT a political handicapper. I do not make a living being right 10% of the time (and conversely, being wrong 90% ofthe time).

I just do not buy the argument that because the numbers of the day state one thing that is what the outcome will be.

There are a lot of external factors that are applied that handicappers do NOT compensate for when they are makng their predictions. My argument is that those external factors often DO count and by NOT including those external in the calculations make for skewered results.

Again, Mixed bag, you argue a nuanced point. I just think you are wrong in this case.

Last Thursday, Larry J. Sabato and the nonpartisan University of Virginia Center for Politics updated its forecast for the upcoming midterm elections.

While the prediction of a 47-seat gain for Republicans in the House remained unchanged (39-seat gain needed for a Republican majority), there was movement in the ratings of individual House races:

"This week we are changing the ratings of 21 House races, all in the direction of the GOP, including 10 seats formerly listed as Toss-Ups that are now leaning into the Republican column."

"This week we are changing the ratings of 21 House races, all in the direction of the GOP, including 10 seats formerly listed as Toss-Ups that are now leaning into the Republican column."

You heard it first Republicans, no need for you to go out and vote in November, your party is a shoo-in. Sit back, relaaaax.

What you fail to realize MB is that Nate Silver got a big ego boost last election, and he's afraid of being wrong so now he's trying to ride the common wisdom that the republicans are going to sweep the election this time. But what poor Nate doesn't realize is he's going to be so wrong this election his two years of fame is over. He fell for the pundits predictions instead of following his own instincts as he did in 2008.

But keep buying into these polls what ever makes you feel good.

I agree with Amy you republicans don't need to vote, the election is over and you won.

Nice try, Amy-

But, your comment merely exemplifies and highlights the "refusal to acknowledge reality" mindset prevalent among most of the regulars here at First Read during this midterm election cycle.

Most conservatives simply couldn't be more motivated to turn out on November 2nd.

They can't wait.

Trust me just this once, Amy...I am one of them, and I know.

Nothing will keep them away from the polls in November.

Nothing, Amy.

Mo-

Please be here on November 3rd.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

What does any of your post have to do with "The Legend of Carl Paladino" and his false claims of rescuing the chancellor of Syracuse University?

Focus, man, focus!

John Doe. Prove it, please provide the quotes but be sure to include the entire quote not just the part that suits the right's talking point. Pres Obama has numerous times talked of regaining and maintaining America's exceptionalism or does that simply not go with the Republican Tea Party narrative.

Another Republican liar, and another Conservative trying to distract us from that with a shiny object.

Jody all John Doe can do is quote what Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, O'rielly and Fox tell him.

I could see that Ms. O'Donell needed to address all of the issues surrounding her but this ad struck me as totally ineffective. It is part of the culture of "never wrong" that we were discussing here yesterday---apparently she just couldn't say I've made some mistakes in my life but will work hard to represent the interests of my state. Closest she came to that was saying something like "no one is perfect". Well----that is obvious.

Anytime a candidate's first words are "I am not a witch" and ends with "I am you", the entire ad dips into the world of weird.

We can always count on InTheMiddle to make an insightful comment about any issue.

NO Doubt Houston!

A day without our resident poster boy for anger management is like a day without sunshine!

Houston. I should have read your post before I wrote mine, you said it much better.

InTheMiddle. As long as the pundits continue to spin for the right, I for one, will continue to whine

What wrong Houston? Your little sissy butt can't take criticism?

Typical Liberal........."please stop hitting me, it hurts"

I see you have the #1 peanut backing you....lol . We are really scared now.

Houston, enjoyed your post. The media does seem to ignore the facts whether it is that the Tea Party was funded by Armey, the Koch brothers, and other millionaires to the fact that these same people are funneling milliones into election buying.

ITM, the one who can't take criticism is you. The minute someone bursts one of your world views, you name call. Reminds me of the school bully and like all bullies when someone challenges or fights back--they resort to cheap shots and sissy spewing.

You forgot Jody, they also run away like a coward.

Mo,

I'm right here...These colors don't run, trick. I know you're not stepping to me with your little ........ smerks.

Jody,

Criticism does not bother me. I just brush the hater's off. I can hold my own. you liberals are the weak ones. You can't stand when someone get in your face.

InTheMiddle (of nowhere)

What wrong Houston? Your little sissy butt can't take criticism?

I can take criticism, and I can even take your juvenile name-callling which is what you mean by "criticism." I had nothing to do with collapsing your nasty comment.

Who said anything about collapsing a comment? I could care less. That just intrigue people into opening it. Juvenile???LOL Now that is funny.

You just proved my point you little wuss.

You must be so proud of yourselves. You ARE adults I gather? And Republicans. Of course you are.

Nothing exudes CLASS more than a bitter angry tea bagger!

Sad thing is Pat... they're just getting 'warmed' up... ;0(

"I used to be proud. Before a man (Obama) who clearly hates his own country became president."

Whaaaat? I can't even fathom the mind of a person who would write such a comment. Hates his own country? Where do you get that? Because he stood up for the constitution and the right to freedom of worship enshrined there? Because he saved the American auto industry? Because he pushed for grants to develop alternative energy sources? Because he started the draw down of troops from Iraq? What ?

President Obama is an intelligent and honorable man he doesn't deserve that kind of trash talk. If you disagree with his policies, state which ones and why. Personal attacks on Obama don't win you any support from rational people.

John Doe. Care to back up your remarks with some facts. Please list exactly why you think President Obama hates this country. President Obama is intelligent, honorable, patriotic, loves his family and is a good man; and guess what he loves his country as much as you. You have no facts just empty words that make you feel better.

Be careful Jody, you just made John Doe take another pain killer he's about to overdose.

You saying the Democrats are going to give the republicans a thrashing Road Warrior? It could happen.

MO Buy a Tiara, wear it, change your name to Cleopatra, get you some open toed shoes, your feet are firmly planted in de NIle.

as if you don't know - more tax cuts more tax cuts more tax cuts for the wealthy - darn the middle class - i neeeeeed NOOOOO taxes.....