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Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine said moments ago that unless Majority Leader Harry Reid and Republican Leader Mitch McConnell can reach an agreement that allows for the consideration of Republican amendments, she will vote against starting debate on the bill that includes a repeal of the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy banning gays and lesbians from openly serving in the military.
"I cannot vote to proceed to this bill under a situation that is going to shut down the debate and preclude Republican amendments," Collins said in a floor speech.
Reid is willing to work with Republicans on the amendment process, his aides say, but Republicans remain skeptical without an official agreement. Such agreements are common in Senate procedures to initiate debate on a bill or to finish a bill.
With only 59 votes in the Democratic caucus, Reid needs at least one Republican senator to vote with Democrats to get the 60 votes needed to break the filibuster. So far, no Republicans have agreed to do so.
Collins plays a a key role in the debate as the only Republican on the Armed Services Committee who voted with Democrats in favor of repealing the ban.
"Now is not the time to play politics simply because an election is looming in a few weeks," Collins said.
Leave a Comment:
Give me a break, lady! You're going party-line just to preserve yours' and the GOP's image ahead of the mid-terms for want of capitalizing on the moral deficiency found in a segment of your more vocal and ardent supporters. Consequently thousands of young men and women who serve this nation with FAR, FAR more distinction and grit than you EVER will shall continue to suffer in silence.
Go to hell, Collins. Go to hell.
EDIT: Reid - give the heifer her agreement or you can ride the handbasket piggy-back.
Reid, Pelosi and Obama can't stomach open debate because hard working citizens oppose their true agenda
Democrats have been pushing the "Dream Act/Amnesty" for 10 years now. It was McCain and Kennedy that wrote the Dream Act/Amnesty. And this is not first time the Democrats have done this....They have put" Amnesty/Dream Act" in the Defense Bill every time it comes up. The Democrats hold the DEFENSE BILL Hostage every year with this.. It's time, to stop the Democrats from playing games with the Lives of our Men and Women in the Military........This Bill should only have one purpose Money for our Military. Reid is a Scum Ball....He has no concern for our Men and Women in the Military they need this money.............But Reid is Playing with their Lives......! How Dare Him...He has no right to do this....!
If the Democrats want a vote on the " Dream Act / Amnesty " Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill..And Vote on it..............If the Democrats want a Vote on the DADT.......Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill......And Vote on it...........If the Democrats want a vote on abortion.Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill......And Vote on it............Stop The Democrats from Playing Games with the Lives of our Men and Women in the Military this is no time for games...............What kind of Monsters are the Democrats......This should be about MONEY FOR OUR MILITARY...
Madison, hard working Americans are for the repeal of don't ask don't tell.
It's the republicans playing politics here, as they have been since Obama was elected.
Judy,Judy,Judy - me think thou doth protest too much! If the money for our Military is as important to republicans as they say it is they will not let something like the repeal of DADT stand in the way, unfortuantely for you and most republicans - the rest of us know this and we know who is acutally holding our Military and their funding hostage - it is the republicans, always has been, always will be. And yes, it should go in the defense spending bill because it will include expenses for partners of gay and lesbian Military personnel.
@Madison From NY: Don't ever presume to comment on my posts unless you have an ACTUAL point to make instead of spewing baseless Tea Party implications.
@Judy1270: Look, the fact is that neither you nor I would want to come into work one day and discover we're being let go because the little matter of our sexual orientation (or in an age past, ethnic heritage) had come to the attention of our superiors. That's what's happening to these kids and the tragedy is that the elimination of DADT isn't going to happen on its own because the Republicans will NOT risk alienating their hardline Christian support even in the face of moral inequity. Something like McCain's Dream Act has to be put as a rider on a defense budget bill, otherwise it'll never see the light of day.
Take a gander at the Real ID Act - that was attached as a rider to an appropriations bill for the Iraq war back in 2005, and it hardly would've passed otherwise.
how come nobody bothers to ask the men and women of our armed forces how they feel about this law ??
"@Madison From NY: Don't ever presume to comment on my posts unless you have an ACTUAL point to make instead of spewing baseless Tea Party implications."
-- Exodite Dragon
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Typical leftist NO debate/ 1st Amendment rights unless you agree with them
All of you jumping Collins,
Give me a frikken break. You know as well as I do this IS about politics both ways.
If it is so damn important to have the military partake in this social experiment; then why don't Reid bring it up in a separate bill. Why does it have to be tucked inside a Defense authorization bill when it obviously has nothing to do with the bill. This whole mantra is to attempt to make it look as though Republicans are not supplying the troops (We have heard that BS before).
This is the very reason MOST within the military community do not support Democrats. If I thought the Republicans were doing something to hurt my fellow soldiers; I would be the first to put them on blast.
Judy
I didn't realize McCain was a Democrat.
How was it he won the republican nomination a few years ago?
@Madison From NY: Don't even try with me. There's not a thing I've seen you post worth debating.
Union Baby?
"it should go in the defense spending bill because it will include expenses for partners of gay and lesbian Military personnel".
This is even more reason why this bill should fail. Why should my tax dollars go for funding of expenses for gay and lesbian military?
He dares because he cares about the gay men and women in our military. He does have a right to do this because he is the Senate Majority Leader. Both parties do this type of thing so don't act like it's only the Democrats.
This isn't an experiment. Integrating gays into the military has been successful in other countries. Take Israel for example.
Because they are putting their lives on the line to defend your freedom.
Thanks Charles Arlington Heights - you are correct, Dale, wake up, our brave Military men and women who put their lives on the line for you and me do not do it because we are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or nonsexual Americans, they do it because we are Americans. And that is the way it should be.
Cry me a river, I am sooo sick of the DEMs crying about the GOP saying No, how cocky were the DEMs in the first 12 months that they didn't have to consider any input from the GOP because the controlled the vote. Again they are tyring to run something down everyone's throat, their way or the highway, and a ploy to gain back support for left liberals they insulted earlier in the year.
And btw, I'm happy to see restraint from the GOP, and glad as hell when I cried like a baby my parents didn't give in to everything I wanted. When did No become a bad word!
The vote was 56 - 43. What about those obstructionist Democrats Lincoln and Pryor? Even if Collins had voted yes, it still would not have passed. The way MSNBC slants its stories to make the Republicans the bad guys here is irresponsible reporting. The Dems did not have 59 votes without Collins, they only had 56. Reid and the Dems should put this in a separate bill and let it pass on its merits. Take this out of the funding bill and give the troops the money they need.
All I have to say is God Bless You Massachusetts and God Bless You too Scott Brown!!!
Lord knows what shape we would be in if it wasn"t for that little election thanks to the Liberal Lion finally dieing as that is the only way a Far Left loon will give up their greed and power!! I believe that was a small gift to mankind from the Lord himself!! We have to get these progressive POS's out of our lifes forever and hopefully it isn't to late!! Kinda gripes your crawl doesn't it LIBBYs and puts a smile on my face:):):):):):):):):) whole bunch of smiles!!
Martha Coakley losing here in MA was a killer. A real killer. I feel badly for those who will be affected by this decision. Of course the Senators in the GOP could care less.
What has happened to our democracy? It's been taken over by old white men, with Palin doing their bidding. There is nothing good about this if it doesn't pass. Nothing.
Reminds me of Louis Armstrong. A great great entertainer. A wonderful warm human being. Yet he couldn't stay in the same hotels as the white guys. And now we have our troops, fighting in wars. Being hurt and killed. And yet they too are discriminated against.
America will only get worse if the Republicans take over in November.
Democrats have been pushing the "Dream Act/Amnesty" for 10 years now. It was McCain and Kennedy that wrote the Dream Act/Amnesty. And this is not first time the Democrats have done this....They have put" Amnesty/Dream Act" in the Defense Bill every time it comes up. The Democrats hold the DEFENSE BILL Hostage every year with this.. It's time, to stop the Democrats from playing games with the Lives of our Men and Women in the Military........This Bill should only have one purpose Money for our Military. Reid is a Scum Ball....He has no concern for our Men and Women in the Military they need this money.............But Reid is Playing with their Lives......! How Dare Him...He has no right to do this....!
If the Democrats want a vote on the " Dream Act / Amnesty " Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill..And Vote on it..............If the Democrats want a Vote on the DADT.......Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill......And Vote on it...........If the Democrats want a vote on abortion.Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill......And Vote on it............Stop The Democrats from Playing Games with the Lives of our Men and Women in the Military this is no time for games...............What kind of Monsters are the Democrats......This should be about MONEY FOR OUR MILITARY...
Deja Vu
Wow Pat. This became a racial issue to you or are you still crying over Louis Armstrong? When did this Louis Armstrong event happen? Did you keep the newpaper article posted on your wall so you could vent your anger for "old white men"? What does gay rights have to do with race? Or you shedding tears like Nancy Pelosi did when she remembered a time way back in the 70's? Come on man.
Pat, you hit the nail on the head. Repeat this often as you can.
This was all a political stance. The DADT was put in there to make this about gay rights and apparently that has worked. I'm leaning to America not being the brightest bulb in the pack.
The Republican Party care about no one.
May 2010
GOP PREPARED TO FILIBUSTER TROOP FUNDING OVER DADT.... With Democrats likely to add a provision to the Pentagon appropriations bill to end the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, Republicans are moving forward with Plan B: blocking the vote on troop funding.
Senate Armed Services ranking member John McCain said Thursday that he would "without a doubt" support a filibuster if the bill goes to the floor with language that Sen. Joe Lieberman (ID-Conn.) plans to offer as an amendment during today's markup.
"I'll do everything in my power," the Arizona Republican said, citing letters from the four service chiefs urging Congress not to act before a Pentagon review of the policy is complete. "I'm going to do everything I can to support the men and women of the military and to fight what is clearly a political agenda."
Another Armed Services Republican, Sen. Roger Wicker, also said he would support a filibuster if the repeal language makes it into the version of the bill that goes to the floor, possibly during the post-Memorial Day work period.
Just so we're clear, consider exactly what Senate Republicans are saying here. The GOP is prepared to refuse an up-or-down vote in the Senate on a bill that funds the troops during two wars because Americans will eventually be able to serve in the Armed Forces, regardless of their sexual orientation. That the policy has been endorsed by the Secretary of Defense and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs -- both Republican appointees -- is irrelevant.
What's more, as Dante Atkins added, "The funny part about this whole ordeal? The compromise that the Republicans are threatening to filibuster allows the Pentagon to have the final say in the issue, which is precisely why it is not receiving the broadest support in activist circles. And yet, despite the fact that the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs get to be the ultimate arbiters of whether the policy is repealed, that's not good enough for today's homophobic Republican Party. Today's Republicans don't want gay people to be able to serve in the military -- even if the Pentagon says it's okay."
I seem to recall Republicans screaming that those who oppose funding the troops during two wars are necessarily unpatriotic terrorist sympathizers, aiding and abetting the enemy. Now these same Republicans are boasting about their intention to prevent the Senate from even voting on troop funding.
It's funny how GOP standards change, isn't it?
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_05/023998.php
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SENATOR Collins - don't talk to us about playing politics. It's all your party does, with you helping them. Disgraceful.
Reid's addition of the Dream Act and DADT to the defense authorization bill is wrong. While one might make a case for DADT being part of the bill simply because it relates to the military, the Dream Act is not even remotely related - and adding that people could qualify by serving in the military does not make it related. It is an amnesty bill that Reid is using to garner votes from the Hispanic community.
The Republicans can find a million reasons not to vote for something. And no matter what Senator Reid does, the GOP are still going to vote no. It's all they do. For you. For me. For everybody unless, give them hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions and they'll get everything they want. The American people? Nothing. Zero.
The GOP are no damn good.
Pat,
I guess Democrats do not need donors nor do they ever cater to special interest?
You seem to think that Republicans are the ONLY party that receives big money......
You need to take a look in your own backyard before you accuse others.
Check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
Tell your buddy Reid to not tuck this experiment into the DAB and bring it up on its own merits if it is sooooo important.
You know what? The Democratic Party is attempting to fix this country. The Republican Party is not. They just want money so they can keep the wealthy happy. That's their only goal. It's been going on for years and years.
What have the GOP ever done for anyone except the rich? The wealthy don't want to pay taxes and they don't want regulations. John Boehner has promised he will help them if the GOP wins.
What a platform to run on. He makes me ill. And this is from someone who has a good job; who can pretty much do what I want. If my taxes go up, I don't care. It's my responsibility as a citizen to want good schools, good roads, good healthcare - especially for those who can't afford it.
This country is so selfish that it's mind boggling.
Pat,
There you go again, Mrs. Self-righteous. I guarantee you and about 5% of the American populace that PAYS taxes is willing to pay more.
Every frikken American is looking for the next deduction so don't try to act like you haven't. If you haven't , then who is the fool?
I like MY MONEY that I EARNED.
Most people who are doing all of the whining about taxes; DON'T PAY TAXES. I'm not rich but I see a nice chunk of my money going to the government yearly.
They can change the tax laws all they want; CPA's will just find another way to help people hold on to their money.
Yes, all true, but there is just one other bit of info concerning the GOP whom hate homosexuals--that hatred did-not-stop them from partying in a Lesbian bar with a dominance venue as a main treat, with Leather (and hopfully lace) as-a-side-dish. I believe one Republician was quoted as saying, "Would you spank me now?!..."
Pat, The defense budget bill should be passed (or not) without amendments, as all bills should be. What is your problem with that? Quit your whining and explain without trashing one party or another.
And since 7 out of 10 of the wealthiest memebers of congress are dems, why aren't they taxing themselves more and be good examples of the socialism they are pushing?
"I cannot vote to proceed to this bill under a situation that is going to shut down the debate"
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No debate, secret deals behind closed doors and fat cat/ special interest vote buying that's Reid, Pelosi and Obama
Vote out the progressive liberals before they spend our great great great grandchildren into poverty
Because equal treatment of gays has SO much to do with running up the national debt. Way to be off-topic.
Madison From NY
You mean like the secret deals the Repubs had w/ the drug companies to pass Medicare Pt.D which also wasn't paid for and ran up the national debt. That happened w/ your party in power, just the Halliburton no bid contracts for Iraq and Afghanistan, war also not paid for, running up the national debt your so worried about. This discussion is about how 1 Senator is showing how partisan the Senate is at this time. Having Gays serve openly should be a issue, they have been serving for decades, proudly and have to hide who and what they are because of small minded people like McCain who more than likely served w/ some. As for the Amnesty, remember, Your greatest Conservative, Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to millions, w/o the service caveat. This amendment at least allows them to brought into the system and out of the shadows. But like most Repubs, the only thing you think their good for are busing tables, cleaning hotels rooms, and picking fruit under the threat of constant deportation.
Progress is something that Repubs and Conservatives fear because it means their piece of the pie gets smaller and everyone becomes all the more inclusive. For Repubs and Conservative its always "Us vs Them"
You Exodite dumbass, you haven't opened your eyes yet have you?
It has EVERYTHING to do with it... they are shoving this bill with a whole package of bull@!$%#. We are NOT voting on repealing DADT.
We are forced to have either DADT repeal PLUS tons and tons of bullcrap instead of just repealing DADT alone. If your hero Reid truly cared he would have put it out as a bill on its own!
Automatic fail. Not worth arguing with you.
Looks like Collins wants to hold the Constitution and the rights of the gay community hostage in order to get her way. I'm with Pat's comment from yesterday. The Republicans are despicable.
'Despicable', Ron?
You are being way too measured, careful and kind this day.
Drive-by: You are right, I coulda, shoulda, used a stronger word. But I was following Pat's lead and being nice.
Besides if I spoke the truth, the intolerant ones will throw the flag.
WHo care's what you think about Republicans.....You don't vote for them anyway......
I guess that makes your opinion...mute.....
@IntheMiddle, TX: I think you mean 'moot.' Where are you from? Cut 'n Shoot? Shepherd? Miller's Grove? Wichita Falls?
And what should care about what you think? Do you actually vote, or are touch screens too fancy and high-tech for you?
hey InTheMiddle, I think you meant "moot" but I like your's better. ;)
ITM: We talked about this yesterday: Republicans prefer the non-educated, ill-informed, dim-witted candidates and voters.
BTW: How about them Cowboys? A beautiful stadium doesn't make them winners. Does it?
Ron, Da 'Boys are loosers, just like the Repubs! Mr. Jones sits in his beautiful billion dollar house, full of loosers!
Perhaps the Repubs can hold a summit with O'Donnell (witch), Palin (witch doctor), Paul (Aqua Buda), and lord knows whoever else.....while the evangelicals clutching bibles/guns will be wanting to come in.
All,
I meant what I said "MUTE"......meaning STFU.
God, IntheMiddle. If I ever I get your GPS coordinates...
...I'll send you a fruit basket.
Exodite Dragon
God, IntheMiddle. If I ever I get your GPS coordinates...
...I'll send you a fruit basket.
Nice recovery and channeling of Kenny the page on 30 Rock...:)
I think both sides are quite guilty of playing politics and i also think that many here are so bias and blind to 'their side' they refuse to see the games they are playing.
Democrats- why are you playing games with this? Put it on a bill and vote. Dont try to cram in DREAM ACT, or military funding etc - just put it on a bill and vote. Also, agree to debate and let the other side have their input. I wouldnt vote for it if you told me that i couldnt offer my opinion down the road.
Republicans- Why are you games with procedures? If it was just a straight up vote on DADT- you would vote no. Your using all the other stuff as an excuse to say no.
What is really sad is that we the people are to blinded by our bias to one side or the other to see the flaws on our own side. Both sides are to blame. If you cant see that, thats your curse.
I would love, just once to see either party submit a bill that they considered important as stand alone. The DADT does need to be addressed by itself. Gays and lesbians have fought for decades, and deserve to be treated as equals. But by adding in the Dream act, the Dems cut their own throats. If it were my vote, even though I do support the repealing of DADT, I would have voted no because of the Dream Act. It was all a political ploy to get as many votes as possible before the November elections. Now they have hurt an important Civil rights step forward. After the military has had time to come up with a viable solution to the assimilation of openly gay people in December, The measure should be pushed to a vote again, no matter who is controlling the house and senate. Then we all will see what happens. After all, that was the original agreement from the Dems. Then they rushed it to a vote.
This legislation should not be part of the Defense Authorization bill. It should be a stand alone bill. I also don't think that the Dream Act should be a part of the Defense Authorization bill either.
As for those of you who are bashing Collins, she did vote to repeal DADT - her issue is with the process Reid is using.
If the bill to repeal don't ask don't tell doesn't pass then you people know to blame Republicans. Votes tell us who wants to repeal and all 59 democrats are voting to repeal. They need only 1 republican to give the 60 votes. I hope to see 65 to 670 Democrats in senate and 340 Democrats in House come this January so that the Democrats can repeal all of Bush policy and Republicans bad agenda to place laws around Washington to make all elected candidates and the future President responsible for the AMerican people. that way even Republicans will be held accountable if they corrupt the American people for money in their pockets.
If there are 670 democrats in the Senate this January, then someone has some serious explaining to do.
Again, they only had 56 votes, not 59. Reid would have voted for it so that's 57. Why are you not calling Lincoln and Pryor obstructionist? They voted against it... Why is this the repulicans fault? Reid should not have been allowed to add this to the defense bill, period.
Brownsupporter, all the Dems did not vote for the repeal. The two Dems from Arkansas and Reid ( on procedural issues) voted no. As did Repubs Collins and Snowe.
Same tactic for everything. No No No No No No. Then blame Democrats. More No No No No. Just guess what they are going to do if they gain control. Shut down government completely. They are making a mockery of our system. Republicans are going to destory this country. As for Snow and Collins, they are afraid of the Tea Party Crowd. Plain and simple.
No gays allowed in the military. Period!!
You must be another "in the closet" gay Republican.
Dean25
No gays allowed in the military. Period!!
You left out the planet It never ceases to amaze me who some people can vilate the most basic of human rights; dignity and respect !!
Dean25 - bet you would not even wonder about someone elses sexuality if you were in the Military and depended upon that person to protect you. If you are busy worrying about your Military comrad's sexuality then you probably would not be giving your all to the cause, now would you? Most of my friends who served in VietNam knew there were gays in the military even back then, nobody cared as long as they did their job. Which is the way it should be.
you're about 5000 yrs too late.
The Homophobia of some people is amazing. In combat, people don't care what your orientation is, they only care if you have their back. The problem w/ McCain and his ilk are that they really don't have a real reason to keep them out except they think it would bring down the moral of the troops. This argument was used against Black, Jews Asians, and Hispanics as well as women, all who are serving proudly in the greatest military in the world. I seriously doubt that when in a shower, a gay man won't be able to control himself and start raping the other soldiers, because thats the real reason for them Repubs standing against this amendment. Our military has been weakened by this horrible law because it has discharged many Arab interpreters because their gay, its ridulous and these people need to get over themselves and start working for the American people like they we're voted in to do. The vast majority of Americans want them to serve openly, just a few narrow minded fools who refuse to step into the light preventing this and weakening the country that much more.
M'kay. You're an @!$%#.
75% of the country wants DADT to end
Most of Maine wants DADT to end.
Senator Snowe claims to want DADT to end.
The audacity of Senator Snowe accusing the Democrats of playing politics while voting against her conscience and her constituents for a "procedural" reason is hubris and hypocrisy of the highest order.
Grow up and grow a spine. Stand up to the remaining homophobes in the Senate.
Meanwhile, whole battalions should "out" themselves -- especially all 50,000 in Iraq -- and stand in solidarity with their fellow soldiers.
Just my two cents worth
Susan Collins is the only Republican on the Armed Services Committee who voted with Democrats in favor of repealing the ban. Does this not show she is playing politics , hypocritical, and has no guts.
Senator Collins it may a member of the LBGT community who may need to save your life one day.
Beverly, there you go again with misinformation. You and your lefty friends add nothing to any discussion. Why will none of you answer the question that has been asked by many people on these threads, and that is "If the DADT and the dream act are so great and so necessary why don't the democrats submit them as individual bills?" Remember Collins has voted for DADT which would be the 60th vote if the bill was submitted as a single stand alone bill. Both bills have been around for a long time and all of a sudden Reid needs to get votes now or the world will end. Why don't you be honest and admit this is nothing but a political stunt to get votes in November. Also remember it was President Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Secretary of Defense, that asked that the DADT bill not be submitted until after the December report from the Pentagon is submitted.
sfcret
Beverly, there you go again with misinformation. You and your lefty friends add nothing to any discussion. Why will none of you answer the question that has been asked by many people on these threads, and that is "If the DADT and the dream act are so great and so necessary why don't the democrats submit them as individual bills?" Remember Collins has voted for DADT which would be the 60th vote if the bill was submitted as a single stand alone bill. Both bills have been around for a long time and all of a sudden Reid needs to get votes now or the world will end. Why don't you be honest and admit this is nothing but a political stunt to get votes in November. Also remember it was President Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Secretary of Defense, that asked that the DADT bill not be submitted until after the December report from the Pentagon is submitted.
Before you and your vindictive cohorts have my post collapsed or deleted in order to sabotage the truth about the GOPTP'S despicable actions, why don't you ask yourself why do righties say "NOPE" to practically everything? "NOPE" also includes collapsing or deleting posts you feel threatened by.
Beverly, I have never voted to collapsing or deleting anyone's posts and I am not threatened by you or anyone else. We say nope to practically everything because the bills submitted by the left wing of the democrats are not good for America or the tax paying public. Now please answer my question as to why Obama did not want DADT voted on prior to the release of the Pentagon's study. Admit it, Reid is the one that is using this bill for political purposes only and he could care less about the military or he would not hold the military funding bill hostage until he gets his way. Think before you write something that doesn't make sense.
sfcret
Because Repubs would not even allow to to be debated. They have voted No on everything ever on Tax cuts for businesses, you know the thing they are always trumpeting about. The Repubs have no interest in debates, its simply NO NO NO to everything. Even when Obama uses their ideas, they still vote NO. DADT was wrong to begin with and its wrong now. McCain said years ago, it the military supported ending DADT, so would he. Adm Mullen, Defense Sect Gates, and Gen Petreaus all want to end it. Here's the people he said he would listen to, and he not. Why because he's a fraud. Repubs don't want to debate Immigration either and have even said so because its an election year. So kick the ball down the road again.
Susan Collins is coward, she supports ending DADT but won't because its Party before Country.
You people on the left can never come up with anything that makes sense. All you do is follow the liberal line as espoused by MSNBC and other liberal news outlets. This bill is nothing but politics at its worse, yet the democrats want to blame everything on Republicans. If Susan Collins says she will be the 60th vote then why not submit the DADT as a separate bill? Reid and the democrats don't give a damn about the military except for their own petty interest. Why are you liberals so afraid to wait until the Pentagon's study is completed as President Obama has asked for?
sfcret - I wish they voted on each and every bill individually, if I had my way we would never, ever attach anything to any bill. Unfortuantely, that is not the way they do things in our government and sometimes the only way to get something out of committee and into debate is by sticking it on the back end of the bill. Since it was good enough for george & company I think it is probably good enough for this administration too.
Two questions:
1) Why couldn't DADT have waited until the military completes its study regarding the effect of repealing DADT on the morale and cohesion of our brave soldiers, who are risking their lives right now?
2) What is so wrong with allowing Republicans the opportunity to offer amendments and debate on the bill? First Read writes that Reid is willing to work with Republicans on the amendment process, but I read in another msnbc article that Reid agreed to allow Republicans only one amendment. What is the truth...and why is there no consensus on fact in our media?
Jill F., Tulsa Ok
Even if passed, the repeal of DADT wouldn't have gone into affect unti the Defense Dept rendered its study. I truly believe that the study will show that repealing DADT is a good idea. Yes, you'll have people saying that its a bad idea. These are the same people who said the same regarding Black, Hispanics, Asians, Jews and Women to serve. The military seems to function quite alright w/ these diverse groups in it. All the Repubs did was get the Dems base fired up now. Nothing is worse than denying anyone basic rights because of one's gender, sexual orientation or race.
So having the repeal would harm the study. What the Repubs wanted out was the Dream Act, something that many of them crafted during the Bush Administration. This is want they wanted out. Because it would allow the Hispanic community to rally around Dems, much like they we're trying to to do in 2006 for the Repubs. Its all politics and the only ones being harmed are the Gays and Hispanics.
Philip, yes, I know that the bill would not go into effect until the findings of the study showed that it would have no impact, blah, blah, blah, so then why NOT wait until the study is concluded? DADT would not be repealed UNTIL the study was completed. Therefore, waiting for the vote would have no impact as to how gays and lesbians are dealt with in the military. So, my question still stands, as you have provided essentially a non-answer: why NOT wait until the study is concluded to bring this issue to a vote?
The GOP...Grand Obstructionist Party. What losers.
This "No" is just another example of the Republican hate and intolerance. I would be afraid if you are a Black Gay Women who is Muslim. Republicans might stone you not the Muslim People.
because dems are trying for a congressional dictatorship again. They were all about minority party rights when THEY were the minority party.
And the repugnants were not at all concerned about the minority party rights when they were the majority party either - sorry BS detector, you don't detect nearly as much as you'd like to think you do.
Collins and Snowe are both snakes. Even if Collins gets her way, she will still vote NO! Remember her constant wavering during HCR....Give me what I want....gimme what I think is go....oh, wait, NO, NO, NO.
What happened to the Repubs tactical phrase during the Bush years about "support the troops"! ?
Well, I guess, support Bushs' troops not President Obamas' troops! Guess, that means the Repubs want out of Iraq and Afghanistan?
And the Democrats policy appears to be lets hijack another process, lets do some more sliding of something totally unrelated to the Bill to "slip it through", Lets pass social change on the backs of our troops...
ckaster, you are just another Republican spinner. Go away. We know your tactic.
@ckaster: Do you need me to give you a list of all the appropriations bills the Republicans pushed through from 2001-2006 that had riders attached to it?
Are the Democrats not getting a pass from you because you're too morally deficient to want to grant American soldiers the right to serve without fear an unchangeable fact of their lives will cost them their careers?
Exodite Dragon
Its different when the Repubs do it.
I agree....BLOCK THE BILL TO CONTINUE FUNDING THE 'WARS' AND BRING OUR SOLDIERS HOME! That is the best out come that could happen from Congress this year! We've Wasted Billons...or is it a Trillion dollars on a useless war for people who don't want us to be there.
This is a defense funding bill...social issues for politics has no business being placed in it. If people want to say Republicans are being the Party of no, then I say by all means vote no. Better than having the process corrupted once again by Democrat/liberal jerks. Since they have already added those two items to the Bill, they should not bow down at all...let NO VOTE be taken on it until both are REMOVED.
Republicans are the corrupted party. All they do is obstruct progress, favor the rich, spread hate, fear, racism and intolerance. You party is doomed to failure and I can't wait.
Atheist, just how stupid are you and the other left wing nuts with the subject of DADT? It was President Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the DOD that requested the bill not be sumitted until the Pentagon study was completed in December of this year.
sfcret, the bill is here so deal with it. It's right in their face. It's a vote that is now. The constitution gives everyone freedom. You Republicans are the stupid, ignorant ones. You think the constitution only applies to straight Christian White People. If anyone sounds stupid it is you.
Atheist, I know the bill is here, and your complaint should be with President Obama, since he was the one that requested it be held up until the Pentagon completed its study. BTW, I posted earlier that Senator Collins said she will vote for repeal of DADT thereby giving the democrats the 60 votes needed to pass it. As I mentioned why don't the democrats submit it as a stand alone bill and quit trying to make it a political issue.
That's a non-issue given that even if the bill is passed, sfcret, repeal of the policy wouldn't be implemented until at least 60 days after passage and the President's determined there'll be no harm to morale.
The reason they're trying to pass this now is because the Republicans will stonewall a repeal to consolidate Christian votes for the 2012 election: you're looking at literal years, perhaps two to six more at the very least, before repeal becomes feasible again. In 17 years of this ban existing 13,000 servicemen and women have been tossed off base for NO reason other than that they happen to be gay - a fundamental element of their existence they can't change.
That's 13,000 people trained and paid for by the American taxpayer that're now competing with the rest of us for scarce jobs in the private sector. If in 17 years 13,000 people have been discharged, another 6 years could potentially see as many as 4500 others let go. Is it at all right to see 4500 additional souls who've made the tough decision to dedicate themselves to military service for the country lose what they've worked for through no meritable fault of their own?
ED, see you confirmed what I have been saying, this is nothing but a political scam by the democrats who know they are going to lose in 2010 and are looking forward to 2012. It's like the liberals have always said we have to pass it now before the American people get wise and figure out what this administration is trying to do. Why do you think we are throwing out the democrats and we will also throw Obama out in 2012.
Alright, so you basically ignored the point of my post to repeat a shrill line about throwing out the Democrats in 2012.
Implying that granting equal rights to the people who risk life and limb to protect you is some sort of subterfuge is ludicrous - the reality of the situation is that elected and prospective candidate Republicans do not want DADT repealed because it will cost them with their hard-line Christian supporters. That is not the will of the people, sfcret.
You completely bypassed everything about the cost to train, recruit and retain personnel only to discard people what are willing to do everything they can in military service for the furtherment of the nation instead of recognizing it's a financial loss the Republicans would be against if they weren't intent on cramming flimsy religious premises down our throats.
Tell me something - do you have to practice to become as stupid as you are, or is it raw, natural-born talent?
Typical response, when you can't discuss something resort to name calling. BTW, the majority of the people didn't want the stimulus bill or the so called HCR and TARP but they were shoved down our throats by the current administration. (I know TARP was requested and signed by Bush, but it was written by and voted into law by a democratic congress, including a Senator Obama). As to the point of your post I really didn't see any point to it. Discharging 13000 personnel in 17 years don't seem like a big number to me. In the late 70s I saw more than that discharged for being over weight, not making rank within a certain time period and thousands were discharged under the reduction in force program instituted by then President Carter. BTW, the bill was blocked a few minutes ago, so it is now kind of moot. Had Reid really cared about DADT he could have submitted it as a single bill and Senator Collins would have voted for it. But I also see two of three democrats didn't vote for it either.
Yeah, funny thing about TARP - it was voted down by that same Democratic Congress the first time through and only passed after the White House appealed repeatedly on the grounds the nation would fail if it wasn't.
Now, I'm really, really amazed that you can write off 13,000 soldiers just because it "doesn't seem like a big number" to you. I'm also really, really amazed that I have to resort to name-calling in the first place to get what passes for an actual reply out of you.
You've got fuzzy logic comparing that number to those laid off for legitimate reasons - if someone doesn't make rank or through lack of PT becomes too overweight to fulfill their duties, that's negligence on their part. Being let go for being gay isn't something someone can control.
But, you know, reading your posts tells me that logic isn't exactly your strong suite, so I may as well be talking to a cinderblock.
Exodite Dragon, I seem to remember TARP being voted down thanks to the wonderfully charming Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, who used the vote on the bill as an opportunity to blame ALL of the nation's economic problems on the Republicans, which cost her the votes she needed to get the bill passed. Those actions forever changed my opinion of Ms. Pelosi, and I will never, ever respect her as a politician or as a lawmaker. For her, it is not about the good of the country, because if it was, she wouldn't have used her position to make THAT speech at THAT particular time. Don't attempt to make it seem like the Democrats did not vote for the passage of TARP; it is just not so. In fact, enough Democrats were voting against it that they needed some Republican support, which Nancy flushed down the toilet with her despicable little stunt.
That's rich--Collins saying it's not the time to play politics when it's glaringly obvious it's all about the midterms and pandering to the base for her party. The way the Tea Party is knocking off mainstream republicans, she's just afraid the party will throw her under the bus like Murkowski if she doesn't vote the party line. The men and women putting their lives on the line in our military deserve better than this kabuki show in D.C.
Republicans never have supported the troops. To Republicans use the troops as objects for political gain. Republicans are just a disgusting group who likes war but does not like people who are not White, Christian and Straight.
What are the Repubs going to do when these cases reach the Supreme Court regarding DADT?
Quite true, the repugnants have never fully supported the troops, they just like to have great photo ops but in all reality the repugnants have never been in favor of taking care of our troops after they return from war or when their service is up, either by retirement or not re-enlisting.
Notice how Republicans state they are for freedom and protection under the constitution. Then the first thing they do is try to figure out what you are doing in your home, on your phone or on your computer.
We seem to be in a serial "hostage" crisis...what desired outcome isn't being held "hostage" in recent debates...please present the "hostage' analogy for both sides and let's hope for "Stockholm Syndrome", if not outright release, at some point for the affected...:)
DADT was a farce...Gays ARE in the military this is just an acknowledgment of their rights. It is more than overdue...
Collins should vote to repeal that's what she said she supported personally I'm tired of the hostage holding of the Republicans and the nut job tea-party,repeal DADT then move on to other issues.... Don't hold our military hostage just so you can get political gain Senate's...
One thing for sure, if the repugnants hold this one up I'm going to be calling friends who will call friends who will call friends and asking they vote against each and every repugnant and tebagger in Nov.
Kind of silly when you think about it, Bush trusted a gay man to be his campaign manager but the republicans would not trust him to serve in the military. So it is a good thing Ken Melhman only wanted to control who ran our country, not serve with those who protect our country.
This is funny. the people are sharply in disagreement. I would not vote for a democrat for dog catcher ..They would raise taxes on the dogs.
D Sullivan - you are totally off topic, but since you bring that up, I understand, I never met a repugnant in my 57 years of life I'd trust to walk my dog, much less trust with my vote.
Collins and Snow are just followers. They don't have a backbone at all. They are afraid of the Tea Party witch hunt that will occur if they vote to repeal. Ironic since they actually have a witch. Sounds like the portion of their party that is gay and spreads hate about gays.
Shame on Senator Collins. Looks like I won't be vacationing in Maine while she is senator. She and her Republican colleagues practice bigotry with no remorse. They are pathetic.
I dont think the tourist industry is going to collapse without you.
BS Dector - perhaps their tourist industry will collapse without many of us, I'm pretty serious when we travel, I don't spend any money in a repugnant state and neither do my family members. Had a layover in Phoenix earlier this summer, had lots of time, would not even purchase a sandwich to carry on my flight, just waited til I got home to eat. I have done that more times than I can count and will continue to do so, why on earth would I want my tax money to go to folks who only care about the mega wealthy? No reason I can think of that's for sure.
So do you not spend money in your own state then, Union Baby? What a ridiculous comment.
how come nobody bothers to ask the men and women of our armed forces how they feel regarding this issue ??
The enlisted folks have handled this for decades. Its just reality to us. Its the officers that have a stick up their six about this stuff.
because they are afraid of the answer I get when I talk with some of my relatives in the service. They tell me: We don't care if someone is gay or straight, we are more interested in their commitment to the Military community, their loyalty to our nation, and their fighting skills. I thought it was a pretty good answer but the repugnants won't care much for it.
so....if someone is good at what they do in the military, and i agree that that is the most important thing, then why is it so important that they wear their sexually on their sleeves ??? ---- what is so important about the need to be able to express your sexuality in an open manner ?? --- it certainly is not important to the job performance, so why should we even care, or have that knowledge ??
All you people mandating the separateness of these bills have clearly never seen legislation being made in Washington or you are just too blinded by political naivety or Republican idiocy. This is the way bills are made. Go back to every piece of major legislation this past decade and you will see provisions that may not be squarely related with the major bill included in the final legislation. I would bet anything that Collins' desire for an amendment deal is to ensure that the Republicans are afforded a similar opportunity not any altruistic motive to "perfect" the legislation. Even you blind GOP followers and sympathizers should be able to see through that BS!
She is hypocritically accusing the Democrats of everything that Republicans prided themselves on doing when they controlled Congress. Maybe she wants to amend the legislation to include speech therapy for Maine senators. Who knows!?!
i'm not a republican, but i can understand the frustration at including riders on legislation. ---- it's a trick used by both parties, but that doesn't mean it MUST be done that way.
Speech therapy, Mad in CT!
That is too funny. Collins definitely has speech issues, and perhaps the same issues that Christine O'Donnell has with the mice/man brain thingy!
LOL
Mad in CT, It is apparent to me that it is the democrats that are blind. We all know how bills are used to pass pet projects, but I don't think DADT is any ones pet project. Answer my question, and I have asked several so called democrats, If Collins is going to vote for DADT, which she says she will, it would be the 60th vote, if all democrats stood together, so why not submit it as a separate stand alone bill? Maybe the democrats don't have the votes and they know it. Also it was President Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the DOD that asked Reid not be bring the bill up until the Pentagon's study was complete.
sfcret
Speaking of pet projects, did you know Bill Frisk tried to pass an amendment that had never been brought before conference? Something about flu shots, and a Repub stuck this in a defense authorization bill. Please tell me in your infinite wisdom, what do flu shots have to do w/ a military authorization bill? Absolutely nothing. So why is it ok when the Repubs do it and its ok, but when the Dems put something that could actually bolster the military and have it to where people don't have to hide who and what they are, they block it. It makes no sense