"Unfortunately, the Democrats' whole game plan over the past year and a half and through today is to tick as many items as possible off their liberal wish list while they have a chance,"

One more campaign issue to use against the Democrats in November. I wonder how many of the "at risk" Democrats will support Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi this time around - especially after seeing the public's reaction to Obama's agenda so far.

While I think the Democrats will be able to barely hold onto the Senate in November, this could change that.

If the Senate won't move on this, the courts will.

The GOP's myopic focus on social conservative issues is costing them a lot of moderate voters, especially among the younger generations, that might otherwise agree with them on foreign and/or fiscal policy.

Truman never put integration of the Armed Forces up for a vote, and DADT shouldn't be up for a vote now.

So I read this to understand Reid has removed his Immigration pork from this bill as it has not been mentioned. Next remove the Don't Ask Don't Tell from the budget vote and have it stand on its own.

Bundling crap that is unrelated together is probably the most damning practice in Washington...

Rather than repeal the entire thing, I would much rather they modify it. A lot of the current rules regarding conduct will cover much of what is needed, however, you leave the "don't ask, don't tell" part in play - meaning that a superior officer can't question a person's sexuality, and vice versa. The modification comes in conduct while off-duty and off-base. If a person is out in a gay bar in ass-less chaps dancing with a guy in drag, and he is happened to be seen... that is not grounds for being booted from the military. That's no different in treatment for a hetrosexual person out and about... And again, the rest of the code of conduct ought to be able to cover the rest.

I just simply don't want to hear news stories about homosexuals complaining that heterosexual superiors (or vice versa) are giving them unfair treatment. Something like that would just become a political wedge and honestly... it just doesn't belong in a place where people risk their lives.

Ron Indiana: Check your facts. Even Senators and Representatives who do NOT win in the November election are still in office until the new congress convenes in January. It's called "lame duck"; and lame duck congresses have often gotten quite a bit of work done. The "lame" ducks are free of the pressure to cater to constituents' prejudices. They ARE free to do the right thing.

The only people that should be voting on "don't ask don't tell" are the men and women sharing foxholes. Everyone knows there are plenty of gays and lesbians in the military and a gay has to go out of their way to get tossed out over that fact.

Let's not turn the military into the degenerate form our civilian society has taken on. I'm all for living life the way you want to but don't shove it down my throat.

And you guys cry about Christians shoving their beliefs down your throat...what makes the gays and lesbians always cramming their garbage down our throats any different?

Democrats have been pushing the "Dream Act/Amnesty" for 10 years now. It was McCain and Kennedy that wrote the Dream Act/Amnesty. And this is not first time the Democrats have done this....They have put" Amnesty/Dream Act" in the Defense Bill every time it comes up. The Democrats hold the DEFENSE BILL Hostage every year with this.. It's time, to stop the Democrats from playing games with the Lives of our Men and Women in the Military........This Bill should only have one purpose Money for our Military. Reid is a Scum Ball....He has no concern for our Men and Women in the Military they need this money.............But Reid is Playing with their Lives......! How Dare Him...He has no right to do this....!
If the Democrats want a vote on the " Dream Act / Amnesty " Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill..And Vote on it..............If the Democrats want a Vote on the DADT.......Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill......And Vote on it...........If the Democrats want a vote on abortion.Then take the Amendment out of the Defense Bill......And Vote on it............Stop The Democrats from Playing Games with the Lives of our Men and Women in the Military this is no time for games...............What kind of Monsters are the Democrats......This should be about MONEY FOR OUR MILITARY...

callitlikeitis: are you serious about the question you ask? If you are, the answer to why gays and lesbians have the same rights as other citizens can be found in the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. Amendment Fourteen.

Don't ask is just a smoke screen for this article The dream act is in this bill as well and if passed will give over 20 million Illegal's a path to be a legal residence. This is Obama's way of grtting votes for Nov. and he takes care of the Illegal problem once and for all. All Illegal's who have been in this country for the past 6 years will give them if passed today legal residence status in this country. Obama give you the middle finger again and all of you sit on you hands and do nothing.

Nobody on the political left mistakes Lady Gaga for being anything other than an entertainer...and a wacky one at that.

Some on the political right mistake Newt Gingrich for being the next Republican nominee for President.

Big difference.

Most voters today would choose Lady Gaga over Lord Reid or Queen Pelosi, Lady Gaga acts smarter

You know, even if the Democrats lose the House, that'll just make Speaker Pelosi the House Minority Leader? In other words, the job Boehner has now. Yeah, that's a low key and unimportant position.

The radicals have zero credibility. Lady Gaga? Are you @!$%#ing kidding me? The only way dingy harry can ram @!$%# through is to try to hide bills in bills like nesting dolls. We are onto the games and they won't work anymore.

At least she only wears dead meat..... instead of acting like it. This vote is simply to allow debate to begin. And still the Republicans obstruct. Like dead meat on the rail road tracks....

That is correct my friend the conservatives are doing exactly what we want them to do, obstruct any program the libs try to pass.

Every democratic program is predicated on stealing money from the people that earned it and using it for their own ends or handing it to a parasite for his use.

We want no more, after the election, we start repaling those programs.

Just how does debate on repealing DADT "steal money"??? Sounds like a typical right-winger red herring. If you don't like it, claim it steals money and raises taxes. Before you think about "repaling those programs," perhaps you should, well.... think.

You have no credibility. Learn how to spell.

hehehe

Thinking people give no credence to anything Newt's says. Too bad the media gets to, for they must bow to their corporate owners.

Thanks, Bev, will be forwarding this on.

newdayDAWNING10

You're welcome. I think it's time we Americans realize a lot has been done. Instant gratification doesn't always come about where serious business of our country is concerned. I especially have paid attention to Lawrence O'Donnell talk about respect and conviction on both sides of the aisle. I can't wait for his show to begin.

Just think the fire near a New York railroad bridge has caused the suspension of Metro North commuter train service to and from Grand Central Station.

If righties have their way, we won't have enough firefighters to put out the fires; just because they want to stream line the budget.

And Beverly, that is what the righties don't get. It is all well and good to talk about "getting the government off our backs." Wonder how they will feel when there is no one to answer their call for help?

I have always and still do think Obama is a decent human being with the best interests of the nation at heart, our Congress is another story, particularly the Senate, a more reprehensible bunch of corporate puppets you will not find. People in this country are inpatient as hell, everyone knows the Republican Party is responsible for the grief working people are experiencing, their anger apparently has blinded them to the accomplishments Obama has achieved, which I can understand to a point, but to vote the very Republican Party that brought pain and suffering to millions in this country because of their greed and sense of entitlement is insane and a mistake no one in this country can afford.

Gee, Newday dawning, Maybe it's because Republicans know they can take care of themselves. Unlike most democrats, they don't need the government teet glued to their mouths 24 hours a day.

Really, Dave D: So you are able to fund your own military, build your own roads, supply water, phone, electric, and pay cash for your house? You need no help in the event of a natural disaster, and if you are a farmer, you can market your own crops. Honestly...do let us know how you do that, and when you admit that you can't, let us know what services your taxes pay for that you are willing to do without.

Beverly - thanks for posting that terrific aarticle.

Let's remember Obama is ACHIEVING results. The Tea Party and their allies would rather STOP GOVERNMING, when you compile their various positions.

As for DADT, let's hope Reid can muster the votes and that the House will have the courage to act on it, too.

Newday dawning,

This will surprise you, but most of the things you have described are done in and by the private sector, and not by Washington. Grow up or go sip your koolaid.

I'd like to add my own "thank you" for your post. I haven't lost faith in this man. But then I don't have a short attention span and one who needs to see him on tv every other day. He can't do it all. What he IS doing is everything he can. I want to see the entire Democratic Party out there this Fall. They have much to be proud of compared to the GOP. Now is the time to unite.

I expect to pass through life but once. If therefore, there be any kindness I can show, or any good thing I can do to any fellow being, let me do it now, and not defer or neglect it, as I shall not pass this way again. ~William Penn

Dear Dave: First, the kool aid reference so dear to the right wing stopped being amusing and clever long ago. Second: our military is privatized, really? I must have missed that. Lastly, when the private sector gets involved it is generally by Government contract. Does that make them "left wing welfare recipients?" Lastly, a personal attack on me does nothing to show that you are capable of deep thought. I realize that the only thing the right wing has to offer is personal attack and bluster, one would think all of you would have more pride and wish to appear more erudite. But, good try. Still waiting for the list of services you are willing to do without that is currently provided by the government.

Bev, thanks for sharing this. How true it is. President Obama has done a terrific job. Have there been mistakes? Of course, every president makes some. But the most important things have been to recognize that TARP (Busy), the Stimulus, were necessary to prevent a second Great Depression. Obama also realized that health care costs are hindering economic growth; that quality education is key to remaining an "exceptional" country.

ahahahahahahaahhhahahahahaaaaa. dream a little dream

Frank Shaeffer is a disgruntled ex-republican turned left-wing hack job.

You lefties love him because because he is a turncoat. He is not repected by anyone but those who love people that pile on the right.

This man is selling books. That is why he keeps his butt on certain MSNBC shows. They won't challenge him and will just let him run off at the mouth as long as he is spitting on Republicans.

Newday dawning,

I said most "most" not "all", but then, you far lefties don't like to read and heed, you like to rant. More than 50% of every dollar you work hard to make goes to our Government. When is enough, enough?Common sense says we are way past that mark. So why is it that this Administration, and grant you, the previous administration, as well, want more? Because we are not smart enough to say "enough is enough". All they have to do is threaten you with "no more police to protect you, "no one to put out the fires and"your kids won't have teachers to educate them", like your comment above..... and when they do, you lefties can't get your check books out quick enough. So, again, no personal attack, just go drink your koolaid.

Dave, I simply don't know how to make this question any more simple for you. What services that the govt. currently provides are YOU willing to do without. And what services in the list I gave you are done by the private sector without the aid of the government? Time for the rubber to hit the road Dave.

Thanks, I was feeling kind of down and need a good laugh

Dave, why don't you go ahead and tell newday some of the services the govt. provides that you can do without.

While you are working on your list, allow me to name just a few.

Medicaid- never used it

Medicare- never used it

Welfare- never used it

food stamps- nope

pel grants- nope

police- never called them

firemen- nope

free or reduced housing - nope

wic - nope

This is just a partial list but I'm sure Dave can add to it.

There are a lot of SERVICES the govt. supplies. I wish they would quit providing so much help. Then maybe people would get off their butt and show a little personal responsability.

LOL that article is filled with BS and Lies, too many to point out. So I will just have to give it a F---. Most of the information in it you will find that most of what Obama started with is stuff he help create. Dont forget he was a Congressman before he even stepped into the White House. Look at what he voted on and you will find that a majority of the mess he help created. So give the man a pass HELL NO. You libs can write all the BS to cover up this mans failings and pat each other on the Back, but it will never ever ever pass the smell test. So keep piling the BS up, sooner or later it will fall down and cover you.

newday

Most of the services you mention should not be done by the Federal Government. The progressives are way out of line in what they think they should control. We should be voting in state and local elections to get the services you describe except of course the military.

Really Proud Republican? So you would advocate for shutting down police, fire and other services? Do you think that would have been helpful on 9/11? Your argument is then, that if you don't need it, no ones else gets it? Does that include military (have you called them?) roads, dams and the like?

Then what of those services are YOU willing to do without JH? And if you want to keep them, how do you propose to pay for them? Do you think that it might have some impact on your state and local taxes?

Newday,

As we all know, there are some services that people need. Police and fireman in the city for example.

What I was trying to convey was the fact that the govt. cannot and should not be responsable for everything.

We are in a recession, we need to cut back. That is why I mentioned the things I could do without. Also adding to the list......national parks, conservation department, public librarys etc.etc.

I love it when the liberals get on here and cry about taking away s.s. and other programs. I would LOVE it if we could privatize s.s. Then I might have something when I retire.

Except, Proud, if it had been privatized, you probably would have lost most of it in that nasty little crash under Bush. When you are aged and if that money were gone, what would you expect to happen? That you starve? Be put out on an ice floe, since you cannot care for yourself? There is nothing stopping you from having a private account. You can still do that. I'm interested in your answer to my question: what would happen to your local and state taxes if the Federal Govt. stepped out of services. Since when is the Federal Government "responsible for everything", what does that even mean?

Eviscerating the government is not the answer. Closing down government programs willy nilly always will have very expensive unintended consequences. What is really scary about the extreme right wing is the fact they they think they can return to 18th Century America. They can't, and trying to will have disasterous effects on America. The right wing apparently just doesn't have the intellectual capacity to deal with change and the complex world of the 21st Century. The nation has been waiting since Obama's election for them to come up with some positive ideas that contribute to the solution of America's problems. So far all we have heard is a stunning silence or a very loud NO. We are still waiting. Offers, Proposals, real facts, workable ideas, sensible compromises, pragmatic solutions, truthful responses, just a few non political statements, anything would do, we are still waiting! But we are not holding our breath.

Merc8: You have written a post that the right wing should read. The easy solution always is to destroy something, I don't want the government on my back, whatever slogan the right wing wants to use. I don't think it would be a very pretty sight if it happened. I am serious when I ask these folks to take this thought to its most logical extreme. If you invest private money, instead of having social security, if you lose it, then what? Do you starve? Could have been a bunch of people in a lot of trouble in Bush's last term. Do we really want a society in which we do not support our disabled, our young children? Are THEY to starve because we don't want to provide help with housing and food? How does that benefit us as a nation? I keep trying to get folks to both think about it, and decide what they want this country to be like. Do we really want this to be a country in which only the strong survive?

I am serious when I ask these folks to take this thought to its most logical extreme. If you invest private money, instead of having social security, if you lose it, then what? Do you starve?

WOW you libs are funny. Lets look at Social Security as of Today. HMM wired its like out of money, government has been using it for years to pay for other things. All I can find is IOU in the Social Security Lock BOX. Thats wired so since its is Empty and out of funds I guess lets keep the Government in Control of it and let people Starve since there is no Money left in it. Yet you spew garbage about privatizing Social Security and think people could not take personal Responiblilty of there own money. You want the government to have total control over there own money. Now IF they save there own money great, if they spend it and dont save the people can only blame themselves. Its called Personal Responsibility, something you libs need to learn about. When a person is in control of there own life that is freedom. When the Government has control that is a Dictatorship. Choose your poison, your own choices and yes you might lose the money if you make poor decisions or the Government making the choices for you and you got to live with what ever they do. A Real MAN/Woman with Ethics would opt to make there own choices, for the ones who want government control you have no ethics or any real value to are way of LIFE in America.

No, actually Leatherneck, it isn't out of money. Where did I say that govt must have control of all of ANYONE"S money? Did I not specifically say that you can set up a private account now? So...answer the question: if you aren't an investment genius, and reading your post leads me to believe that you are not....if you lose the money you invest, and there is no safety net, what do you do?

Uh huh, Nov 2nd, Obama will get a report card he won't have abit of trouble understanding.

He may get a little lonesome, first the Castro defection, he is now the last communist standing and now all of his democratic colleagues, will be selling shoes.

Newday,

My father paid into s.s. all his life. He was very successful business owner paying in the full amount. He got killed in a car wreck when he was 62 years old. He was single with no dependents. Where did that money go? The govt. kept it.

I'll take my chances, if given the choice, to take care of my own money. I really don't need the govt. STEALING part of the money I work for and then blowing it on all kinds of bullsh!t programs and then telling me that s.s. will be broke before I get to collect.

Well the string wandered off into a Libertarian screed about shutting down the government. It just confirms what I wrote in a letter to Jack Cafferty at CNN after he spouted off about defeating every inclument - and the agenda of the Tea Party to wreck this country. Here's that letter:

First, I really DO feel your pain, and I assure you that my monthly income is barely enough to keep me housed and somewhat fed. What you feel, and so many other Americans feel, is betrayed by a political system in which we held faith. It was supposed to be, and marginally is still believed to be, a system that could solve every problem, no matter how difficult. The present economic crisis proves helplessness and many people think it's due to the failure of politicians to do their jobs.

That really isn't true.

"Throw the bums out!" only works if the "bums" are those who obstruct and delay for personal or party privilege. Now, if you truly believe that the Democratic efforts at stemming the global economic crisis are the result of such actions, then you should not ever vote for a Democrat. However, your position is that NONE of the politicians have made a sincere effort. That's inconsistent with reality.

You know quite well that our present difficulties have roots reaching far back. As I am something of a partisan advocate, I trace them to the the Reagan Administration's effort to implement the so-called "free market" ideology of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics policies. However, looking back generally is counter-productive - you and a large percentage of voters want to know what to do NOW.

The "bums" in this situation are human beings limited by natural means as well as ideology - we can't see the future clearly but only try to influence it, and our ideologies color our actions. I personally feel that a kind of "ideological poisoning" has been active in our country for more than 30 years. And since I was at one time a political operative injecting that poison, I feel partly responsible for it. There's no room here to go into that but it's a very interesting topic worthy of examination.

Allow me to recommend to you Professor Michael Schudson's "The Good Citizen" as a primer on the topic (it's short, readable and quite predictive of our moment now - and he's still active at the Claremont Colleges in Pomona, CA).

Finally, on the topic of incumbents, allow me to point out that if all incumbents were thrown out, our government would completely STOP. People with knowledge and experience are really important. The individual incumbent who has strayed or become too unbearable is a different matter, but institutional memory and understanding of process are vital to our nation at this time of need. There are many, many areas of operations, including the influence of lobbyists and campaign contributions, that demand severe attention and soon, but those are not alone a reason to just dump everything and start over. Have you ever seen a 2-year-old playing with blocks?

I feel quite differently than do you about the ideology of the Tea Party and others fed by suffering, worry and despair caused by the Bush-induced global crisis. I look at it from a long perspective of political involvement begun as a young teen supporting JFK's election in 1960, and my first paid political service in 1966. I also see it from the perspective of an historian, that America has suffered far worse in that past and that today's movements reject entirely the lessons of history. That, too, is far too much to detail here.

I think our administration now needs to take more activist positions based on the more successful projects launched by Franklin Delano Roosevelt during the great depression, when he saved our nation from revolution and created the basis of government we have had until Reagan began dismantling it, to disastrous effect. Below is an excerpt of a post I made on a web blog about the terrible, terrible results that might follow a Tea Party success in November. I implore you to take a while to think about this letter and these ideas - not to react immediately, but let the challenges sink in, and examine your increasingly-harsh on-air positions. Try to consider consequences as well as impulses in this matter, sir. You are a vital opinion leader in our country and we NEED your best thinking:

This is not unlike the aftermath of the massive Republican loss in 1976, when some pundits predicted the demise of the GOP. That time, Reagan spent the next 4 years cultivating the right wing's Libertarian and religious factions. This time, the Tea Party shows a theme fused of again, Libertarians, religious fundamentalists - and more than a trace of the ideology of the militia movements.

Their mish-mash of concepts is all anti-government. Little of what they say is new. Their concept of "governing" is to STOP governing:

• close down a major portion of the Federal apparatus,
• wipe out a vast segment of regulatory oversight,
• close down the IRS and impose either a nationwide ad valorum tax (basically a sales tax), or set in place a flat tax,
• eliminate inheritance and capital gains taxes entirely,
• relinquish most Federal authority to the states (a resurrection of the issue once settled by the Civil War),
• if not halt all immigration then make immigration legally nearly impossible,
• displace millions of undocumented immigrants through mass roundups and deportations,
• impose an "official English" regime and eliminate as far as possible the use of other languages in at least any government operations (including public schools, while they still exist)
• cut off all foreign aid,
• force the U.N. to relocate abroad and drop out of the U.N.,
• privatize almost all public functions, from schools to highways, including the Public health Service,
• and of course cut off all public social programs including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, WIC, Aid for Families with Dependent Children, Head Start, all public housing programs, and all government subsidies including those for agriculture

Not EVERY Tea Party person agrees with each point just listed, of course. This is a compilation of the different positions taken by various candidates - Rand Paul is one of the more extreme, while Sharron Angle has backed away from prior support of just about everything on the list. Dan Quayle's son is right in there, however, and Michelle Bachman is nearly a 100 per cent supporter.

Naturally, the agenda just listed takes as a given that virtually everything done during the Obama Administration would be wholly unrolled. It also, ironically, unrolls a great many important programs and reforms created by the Republican Party between 1880 and 1912. These include creating the Civil Service system to replace a very corrupt structure of Federal appointments (not that vary many Federal appointments would still exist). And, of course, the Tea Party agenda would essentially wipe out labor laws, union rights, and such niggling matters as minimum wage laws.

Ultimately, the Tea Party agenda could lead to the complete dissolution of the United States. It will lead to massive unemployment, collapse of the middle class, a near-feudal class structure, poverty on a scale not seen since Jacob Riis documented it in the early 1900's, the end of any concept of Civil Rights and equality, starvation and death and homelessness greater than that of the Great Depression, and violent civil disorder.

The kind of America the Tea Party desires to "take back" is a largely rural and agrarian America of the 1840's - which of course today cannot realistically ever be re-created.

It is vital that candidates opposing the various Tea Party nominees explain these things to their constituents. It is understandable that the nation is frustrated and fed up - the years of collapse and conflict since Bush brought on a global crisis have been filled with fear and suffering. They are NOTHING like the disaster that awaits if even a portion of the Tea Party agenda is ever instituted.

I believe it was President Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Secretary of Defense, who all agreed to wait until December for the Department of Defense report on DADT.

I believe that Congress is a separate branch of government than the one Obama and the Secretary of Defense are in. Congress gets to set its own agenda.

BTW: A few months ago, Rachel Maddow pointed out that the military commissioned a study during the Truman administration to determine if desegregating the military would disrupt good order and discipline. Members of the mostly-white military at the time overwhelmingly oppposed desgregation by someing like 80%. Truman ignored the study and desegregated the military anyway. Today, the right wingers would be screaming that Truman was "cramming" desegregation down the throats of our military. They will do the same thing to Obama if and when DADT is repealed. But the Log Cabin Republicans won't be among his detractors on this issue.

sfcret

Breaking promises, refusing to run on their "so called" accomplishments like HCR, & the stimulus, and admitting the only chance they have is to run negative campaigns and attack ads. Now I see Howard Dean has a group raising money, separate from the DNCC, that is campaigning, not against anyone individual, but against the tea party.

Who supported the Dream Act and then Flipped?

McCain (R-AZ) co-sponsored the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act in 2005, 2006, and 2007. Yet, when Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) announced on Wednesday that he would be introducing a defense authorization bill next week that includes the DREAM Act, McCainblasted him:McCain not only co-sponsored DREAM Act legislation in the not-too-distant past, he was also behind comprehensive immigration reform efforts that included a path to legalization. McCain once insisted that a border crackdown would do nothing to solve the nation’s immigration problem, calling an “enforcement-first” strategy an “ineffective and ill-advised approach.” During his 2008 presidential bid, McCain told Latino voters, “I do ask for your trust that when I say, I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform, I mean it. I think I have earned that trust.” Don't forget Mccain boght the TEA Party twitter/ facebook Queen in to help him against J. D. Hayward.

Most incumbent republicans are doing political backflips because they are Running Scared; sfcret

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/09/16/mccain-dream-act/

Can you say the major difference is that while Senate Majority leader Harry Reid has traditionally been a supporter of the immigration measures he is embracing it this year, meanwhile has being doing a lot of belly flops lately. FYI: Nothing new for McCain!

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The democrats are really running scared and are is becoming a joke. Even the WH is now denying that they support the anti-tea party group.

Cristine O’Donnell may be the latest extreme example; but the GOPTP is littered half-wit whackos everyone is laughing about. You've got Sharron Angle who thinks Second Amendment remedies should work if the ballot doesn't, thought offshore drilling was safe until the current BP oil spill disaster, and thinks fluoride used in water supplies is unsafe Then there is Rand Paul against civil rights, and Ken Buck. Carl Paladino who sent an offensive stinky mail piece out.

Please get Serious.

Beverly, I believe it is you that needs to get serious and start thinking about our country and not yourself. I have read many post from you and know that you are so far left that there is really no reason to reply, yes McCain flip flopped as do most politicians running for office, including a lot of democrats. If the "Dream Act" is such good legislation why don't Senator Reid submit it as a separate bill and not attach it to a defense bill, same with DADT. I noticed your whole rebuttal was about McCain, and you can't or refuse to address the other issue of why the democrats can't run on their record and can only run attack ads.

Houston, I wouldn't take Maddow to serious, she has her own far left bias and has no idea what the military does or think. You should really get your information from other sources than MSNBC.

sfcret

Beverly, I believe it is you that needs to get serious and start thinking about our country and not yourself. I have read many post from you and know that you are so far left that there is really no reason to reply, yes McCain flip flopped as do most politicians running for office, including a lot of democrats.

I need to correct on two points:

First of all, I am not a republican and I don't mind helping the "lest of my brethren". My husband and I have taken care of ourselves and family as well as others who needed our help.

Second of all, it is not a lot of Democratic flipping. 4-6 in the Senate and 30-34 in the house is a very small fraction' if you know how many reps and senators are in Congress; you just might agree!

If the "Dream Act" is such good legislation why don't Senator Reid submit it as a separate bill and not attach it to a defense bill, same with DADT.

Because the Dream Act is a recruitment vehicle for the Armed Forces. It makes military service an express trip to citizenship. I worked with a lot of immigrants when I was in the USAF, and the Army recruits so heavily in the immigrant community that when my brother graduated basic training at Ft Knox, the banners in the gym where he graduated were English on one side, Spanish on the other.

DADT has led to the military losing Arabic, Farsi, Chinese, and Korean linguists. That's a definite issue of national security.

Beverly, I am still waiting for you to answer the two important things I asked, why won't the democrats run on their record and have to run attack ads. Also if the DADT is such a good bill why does Reid have to attach it to another bill instead of submitting it on its only merits. I know you are not a republican and are in fact a member of the far left nut wings. Personally I really don't care what you and your husband do or who you take care of, and I never even asked that question. Maybe you have a guilt complex.

The DADT provision will not go into affect until AFTER the review. America's allies allow openly gay/lesbians to serve in their military right beside Americans who must keep quiet or be discharged. The right argues against eliminating DADT when so few Americans are willing to serve their country, when we discharge people with critical language skills and other capabilities because of what--fear that "the gay" will wash off on everyone who is straight.

sfcret

Beverly, I am still waiting for you to answer the two important things I asked, why won't the democrats run on their record and have to run attack ads.

Sorry, I can't. I'm not a political consultants. Perhaps you could explain those outrageous, bigoted signs in the Tea Potty.

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Personally I really don't care what you and your husband do or who you take care of, and I never even asked that question. Maybe you have a guilt complex.

Why Would I feel guilty for helping someone in my community or at work? Not in the least, the most I get is pride in helping someone.

Beverly, I haven't seen a lot of outrageous, bigoted signs at the tea party rallies, actually no worse than what I saw when the left was protesting Bush. You don't remember signs showing Bush as Hitler, or calling him other names?

Jody, why have a review of DADT if congress is going to pass it before the review is even completed? You say it will not go into effect until after the review, where did you hear that. I believe it would go into effect immediately after signature. I also see that you got you talking points down as to foreign languages skills and other capabilities. Can you tell me how many "gays" have been discharged that have critical language skills? BTW the military services are doing just fine in recruiting enough people to keep the military at required strength.

A similar polling of the military was done after WWII concerning integrating African Americans within the military. The result: blacks would disrupt unit cohesion and were incapable of functioning in an integrated environment. Harry Truman said "BS" and integrated the services anyway. That resulted in a much stronger military and a social example encouraging more equal treatment of African Americans throughout the country. DADT needs to follow the same path to oblivion....

Jersey Bob, you are right to an extent, but blacks were not barred from serving in the military. They did serve mostly in all black units, however there were some that did serve in white units during the war. Also the black units served with distinction and honor just like white units. I don't know of any all "gay" units that would follow the same path to oblivion. The integration of blacks in the military was responsible for integration through out our society but it wasn't until the civil rights laws in the early 80s, that full integration was received.

I have to correct one thing in post above, I said the early 80s but I meant the early 60s.

All of you lefties keep touting the amount of translators discharged but yet no one has produced a number. There have not been an abundance of translators discharged. We were monitoring this issue when I was serving a couple of years ago.

There has been no evidence presented that would suggest translators are being discharged at a greater rate than any other MOS (Military Occupational Skill). This is a myth.

I know you will say General so and so said it but I can find just as many with the opposite answer.

So because I find something morally reprehensible about firing someone just because they're gay I'm automatically a leftist? Because I expect people to be able to retain their jobs on the merits of their work performance I'm automatically a leftist?

I couldn't possibly be acting according to common sense, could I? No, no. That's an impossibility. One is either a leftist or a right-winger - there's never a middle ground.

You tool.

If I'm a tool I guess that makes you a fool. There is no middle ground in the military. Evidently you have never served.

Like that's a quantifier to comment on military policy. By that logic, if you've never taken an active role in public office, you don't have a right to gripe anywhere, at any time, about the machinations of civilian government.

Thanks for serving. Now get over yourself.

Good idea, that will leave only dems and the country will get better faster.

We already voted them out. Along with the "I'm past the statute of limitation murderers".

The president doesn't have that authority. He cannot undo legislation by Executive Order.

He can tell Holder not to appeal the judge's decision in Log Cabin Republicans vs the United States, and then gays in the military will be legal anyway. I mean, it was Republicans that brought the suit, they'd just be getting what they want anyway.

DADT is just being used as a political football by both sides.

I think everyone knows it will go away, but the DOD report should be what they use, not a bunch of politicans who want to change the dialog to suit their agenda.

Most of whom have never been near a military base.

Do his senior citizen fans know what he thinks of their social security, something these seniors depend on to eat. Not just eat. To actually survive.

No, Pat, Boston, MA

because Dick Armey, and Glenn Beck events' funding of these Tea Baggers buses comes from the murderous, crime, family, the Koch brothers, money to scare the hell out of them.

FreedomWorks, whose Koch-founded precursor, Citizens for a Sound Economy, received some $5.7 million from Koch foundations.
• Americans for Prosperity, which received at least $5.1 million from Koch Foundations from 2005-2008 and is an offshoot of the Koch-founded Economy Foundation, which itself received more than $6 million from Koch foundations.
• The American Highway Users Alliance, of which Koch Industries is a member.
• Americans for Tax Reform, which received $60,000 from Koch Foundations from 1997-2008.
• The Institute for Policy Innovation, which received $35,000 from Koch foundations.
• The National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, of which Koch Industries is a member.
• The National Taxpayers Union, which has received $20,000 from Koch foundations.
• The Natural Gas Supply Association, of which Koch Industries appears to be a member.
• The Texas Prosperity Project, on whose board of directors sits Bill Oswald, Government & Regulatory Affairs Director at Koch Industries.
• The Corpus Christi Chamber of Commerce, which recently held anevent sponsored by Flint Hills Resources, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Koch Industries.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/01/koch-jobs-rally/

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/09/glenn-beck-says-tea-party-will-set-things-right.html

Beverly, why do you lefties keep quoting liberal blogs for your information? It sounds to me as you have a thing for the Koch brothers and their money. I notice you don't mention George Soros and his support of left wing organizations like moveon.org.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to throw out George Soros in response to the Koch brothers. Not very long.

sfcret

Beverly, why do you lefties keep quoting liberal blogs for your information? It sounds to me as you have a thing for the Koch brothers and their money. I notice you don't mention George Soros and his support of left wing organizations like moveon.org.

I provide information to enlighten people like you because obviously you don't know the difference between murders and funders.

The John Birch Society founding member (one of them was Fred Koch), father of the murderous, crime, Koch brothers of Koch Industries, which is currently the largest private corporation in America was against civil rights movement in the south in essence Fred Koch backed....

Bull Connor uses fire hoses and police dogs on black demonstrators; which were televised and published widely, around the world.

Four young girls (Denise McNair, Cynthia Wesley, Carole Robertson, and Addie Mae Collins) attending Sunday school were killed when a bomb explodes at the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church, a popular location for civil rights meetings. Riots erupt in Birmingham, AL leading to the deaths of two more black youths.

James Meredith was killed due to violence

Dr. Martin luther King was killed due to violence

Neshoba Country, Miss.) The bodies of three civil-rights workers—two white, one black—are found in an earthen dam, six weeks into a federal investigation backed by President Johnson. James E. Chaney, 21; Andrew Goodman, 21; and Michael Schwerner, 24, had been working to register black voters in Mississippi, and, on June 21, had gone to investigate the burning of a black church. They were arrested by the police on speeding charges, incarcerated for several hours, and then released after dark into the hands of the Ku Klux Klan, who murdered them.

11 workers killed in the Deepwater Horizon explosion. The Kochs operate oil refineries and pay lots of money lobbying against regulations and spout oil and gas industry lies to confuse people.

Upper Big Branch is owned by Massey Energy Company and Blankenship, which operates 47 mines in central Appalachia had least 25 miners were killed in April.

Can you name me anyone killed with Soros' money?

And this has what to do with DADT?

and it's the majority who are going to shut down the mistake they made!!!

Well it scares me to death already. Are you also going to put tutus on them?

The Israeli Defense Forces allow gays and lesbians to serve openly.

I would not want to mess with the IDF.

You trot that out in every discussion about gay people. Do you really think it is that funny or that clever? It really reveals more about you than anything else.

Nothing like a pissed-off queer with an automatic weapon to ruin your day.

Exodite Dragon....Even worse...a TeaCup Republican!

A gay military would not whine and cry for seperate barracks and showers. Anti gay service members are high maintenance. Plus it is a waste of money to train people, then discharge them for no reason other than homophobia.

Wrong!!!! Why, so your psycho radicals can run unobstructed to an unbridled marxist system for this country? Thank God for the senate and filibuster, if it wasn't for the filibuster we would be living in the mediocre, third rate, socialist country that you and your dependent lemmings are cheering for. Pass on that bull@!$%#!!!

Dave D-1046643

Define an unbridled marxist system and socialist country.

I wouldn't change the filibuster rule either, because when the political pendulum swings the other way (which it may be doing right now) and the Republicans control the Senate it will keep them from widening the wealth gap and forcing their extremist religious views on the rest of us.

Charles, I have to agree with you but only to a certain point. There are some good proposals where the threshold goes down as time passes. The filibuster is to ensure that the minority isn't 'rolled over' by the majority. By keeping it where it is but lowering the threshold by steps over a set period of time, that gives the minority time to make their point and gather support. If their point has sufficient validity, they will not have a problem garnering the votes to defeat something. If their argument has no validity, then it deserves to no longer hold up passage of a bill.

You must be a Republican.

Dense.....Dumb.......and Dying!

Of course you do.

They will be housed in the officer's barracks when asked to lead with whatever gender they identify with.

Nice fear mongering.

I know David. I shouldn't scare them that way, being sensitive and all. Guess I just get tired of hearing the whining all the time.

Mmkay. We can put the hetero population in the rain barrels.

Dear Ernie: Since I am curious, I am going to ask again. We have gays in the military now. Where do you imagine they are housed?

Ernie - It sounds like you are either in or were in the military. If so then it is almost certain that you did or are serving with gays. Why are you so afraid of them?

IF the military decides on seperate barracks they will most likely build a small unit with a few beds to house the homophobic boys that are too scared to show their manhood in front of gay or straight men. I'm sure they will continue to let you sleep and shower with the other boys since you are not comfortable with members of the opposite sex.

Our military has always been out front of our society in social change. This country owes it very existence to people of all nature of race, religion, sex, and sexual orientation. Is this a country where all men are created equal, or where some are more equal than others?

Don't ask-Don't tell has served the military well as a transition from the military of WWII through Viet Nam. It may be necessary to keep in place for one more generations worth of personnel to effectively eliminate without all the right-wing homophobic knee-jerk reaction and posturing we will have to endure.

Houston,

Comparing the desegregation of blacks in the military to allowing gays to serve openly in the military is like comparing apples to oranges. Blacks were not barred from military service because of their color as gays are because of their sexual preferences. See my post on this thread at 4.11, and it will give you some insight the I am sure Maddow left out.

Is Rachael Madcow a double-dildo user?

Houston---------- A liberal talking about reason, is a contradiction in terms.

I have no idea how you came to compare dadt and racial discrimination..

Probably because you libs have always tried to use racist accusations as a way to stop any critisizm of anything you want to do..

You may as well stop, you have used it up, worn it out and ruined a couple very useful words, with your constant misapplication of them.

Your nubers are BS, I went to the Marine Corp birthday ball,llast year, large number of Marine officers there including my son who is a Marine Corp Captain.

I would say the numbers about 6 in 10 against and about half of them will resign their coommission, if it happens

A gay has but to keep his mouth shut and he/she encounters no discrimination.

Racial dismcrimination, is shown on the skin of every american.