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Departing Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., has some advice for voters listening to candidates on the campaign trail who tout their independence, vowing to vote against the party if they don't agree with it.
Don't hold your breath.
"When you get here, the pressure by the two caucuses to kind of go along with 'the team' is pretty constant," he said during an “exit interview” with NBC News. "And it's gotten more so over the years."
Bayh feels that pressure plenty. He placed second on a list of Democrats who most often voted against their party during this Congress, according to a Washington Post database. (Only Nebraska’s Ben Nelson voted with Republicans more.)
"Any deviancy from party orthodoxy is viewed as an act of betrayal or a lack of moral fiber," Bayh complained.
(Independence from one’s political party is all relative, of course, and subject to evolution. In Bayh’s first two years in the Senate, he joined with party leaders over 90 percent of the time.)
While moderates like Bayh are the key to securing votes to pass legislation and are thus often able to extract concessions that benefit their state or cause, Bayh says the practice comes at a personal cost.
He recounted the moments he's had to address his entire Democratic conference with a viewpoint most of them did not support. "It's hard on a inter-personal basis," he said. "I suspect that most of the time they don't really care what you think, but if they need your vote then they've got to give you something."
Bayh shocked his party when he announced his retirement in February. Speaking in his home state at the time, he said, "I love working for the people of Indiana, I love helping our citizens make the most of their lives, but I do not love Congress."
Even with his history of - sometimes - bucking the party, Bayh told NBC News that he regrets he wasn't more insistent -- especially on issues that promote deficit reduction. Bayh suggested that Congress needs more forceful, animated moderates: Think the public persona of New York’s Chuck Schumer, with the voting record of Maine’s Susan Collins.
"It may be an oxymoron, the notion of passionate moderates, but that's really what we need," Bayh said.
"The people who are more independent, more moderate, who say 'enough of these extremes, we're going to take the country back, and vote with the major party that seems to be more willing to compromise and to do the right thing.'"
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"Any deviancy from party orthodoxy is viewed as an act of betrayal or a lack of moral fiber," Bayh complained.
Sadly, that's the way it is here too...
The progressive (communist) big government big spending no personal liberty party of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama MUST GO ASAP, their "orthodoxy" is destroying America
Madison, I have to thank you. You are without a doubt swinging independent voters to the Democratic party.
Wow only 33 % of the Independents give Obama a favorable rating, Only 27 Give the DEMO congress a favorable rating, and it was the independents that started the TEA Party in the first place and you think they are swinging to the DEMOS? What planet do you live on? Even on the best most liberal polls the independents give Obama a 43 % Approval and not a strong approval a somewhat good job. 64 % Of Americans think the country is on the wrong track people that means regardless of what any poll says the real approval number for Obama can only be 36 %. The Demos are living in denial. Running away from their record and even not admitting they are demos in their campaign advertisements and you see good news for the demos? They are going to be wiped out in NOV!
Wade, GW Bush acheived a record low 17% approval rating. congressional republicans rate lower than congressional democrats on most polls. our political dysfunction is not based on party lines. Evan Bayh is right. We need more moderates, not more extremists. More people like Charlie Crist or Lamar Alexander, not people like Sharron Angle or Rand Paul.
Joe - couldn't think of any left-leaning extremists?
Bayh is already running for Indiana's governorship. He and Obama will lose that state in 2012.
Wade,
Why did you not include the independent's views of the GOP? Seems pretty relevant to the point you're trying to make......
If you consider Dick Armey and the Koch brothers Independents, then, yes, Wade, Independents started the TEA Party.
STTS
Hey Wade, I noticed you left out what the ratings are for the GOP...........they are JUST as bad. BTW - the 27% rating is for CONGRESS - All of them, that includes both parties. You are picking and choosing poll numbers and you are wrong. Even on Fox, which shows Rasmussen the approval rating for Obama is mid 40's. I'm not saying that's good, just showing you more accurate numbers. You are correct on the number of americans who think the country is on the wrong track, but that number is not much worse than when Bush was in office. More Americans thought the US was on the wrong track then as well. The Tea Party is NOT made up of independents. Independents are willing to compromise to get things done. The Tea Party is NOT. If the Tea Party was independent, then people like Angle, Miller, O'Donnell would not have won their primaries. Those Tea party favorites do not poll well with independents. BTW - the negative numbers for the Tea Party is growing as well. Get your numbers straight and include what the polls say about the GOP as well. They are not that good either.
What Bayh says is probably true - Just look at the Democrats who voted for HCR and the "Stimulus", even though they may have had personal misgivings.
In November, they will realize their folly.
Interesting things turn up in the strangest places; searching the term "Left wing Extremist" garners more hits than searching "Right wing extremists". That would tend to prove that coverage of the peccadilloes of the left is better... does that mean the "liberal press" has a right wing bias? Gosh, this is confusing! Then, Evan says we can't trust Democrats not to follow party lines.. and we KNOW Republicans do from the remarkable solidarity displayed over Obama's term to date- in firm opposition to anything Obama proposed, even several things they formerly supported. So, we know everyone follows party lines. We know nothing changes when we re-elect the same people- but also that electing different people of either party will elect a new boss just like the old boss. It seems that electing new people to an outdated institution from horse-and-buggy days won't change much at all. But... wait.
I have an idea. Let's disband Congress. Who needs representatives that don't represent? Who needs to pay them a huge wage and give them free health care welfare for life when so many lack any? Why do we need them when a quorum of Americans can reach computers on any given day? We could.... represent ourselves. No lobbyists, no union influence, no corporate influence: "We, the people" could become the third branch of government, actually balancing the judiciary and executive branches for the first time ever. Even if we accomplished nothing, how would that be different? Here's how I see the process working.
Debate has closed. Voting is now open.
Plug in your biometric thumbdrives ("Vote Key") to verify identity and vote for or against the bill as listed. Don't lose them: you have to go into the Social Security Office and provide two pieces of legal identification to get it replaced- and while the first is free, a replacement will be $25.00. A replacement in the event of scars to or loss of the right thumb- scanned by the drive to verify identity- is free. Accidents do happen. But, remember- even if you find the old one, it has been banned from the database- and only the new "Vote Key" will work. You can mail in the old one for recycling, and a refund will be credited to your next federal tax statement.
The floor is now open for debate and the proposal of amendments, friendly or otherwise.
Wade. The Tea Party was started by republicans--Americans for Progress (the Koch brothers) and Dick Armey's PAC, not independents. There are few independents in it and few democrats. Whoever says otherwise is selling you ocean front property in Arizona.
Bayh is history but his Healthcare lobbyist wife will take a hit if the tax breaks for the wealthy are allowed to expire..That is his hidden agenda--not concern about the wealthy spending the money to create jobs..They do not..they save it!
Lies from a lame duck with a agenda!
@Madison-" no personal liberty party of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama MUST GO ASAP...." Exactly what personal liberty did they take away from you? Would it be your right to marry someone of the same sex? Or your right to do with your body as you and your doctor see fit? Did they take away your right to worship ANY god you choose?
Perhaps you got them mixed up with the Republican leadership that wants to take away healthcare, abortion, deny people from getting married, force people to worship their god, abolish the IRS and Dept. of Education, end social security...need I say more?
Madison you got it right.
The progressives are the greatest threat there is to the US.
It is a shame he didnt use this advice when he voted for Obamacare against his constituants .
He did OK. Wellpoint (who his wife works for) was not harmed in anyway. And if he's so passionate about that, maybe he can explain why Wellpoint/Anthem's rates are higher in his home state of Indiana, than across the border in that evil, liberal state of Illinois.
Kent, health care polls aside. It's pretty much a party line thing. I don't think its health care that sunk him.
I think he's correct that neither party want their members working with or consorting with the other party.
Americans want both parties to work together to solve things.
Vote out anyone that won't work with the other side.
wrong, vote out anyone who goes against the will of the majority. That would be... wait for it.... liberals.
huskyforliberty - You have no idea what the majority wants because you haven't heard from them yet. You've only heard from the hysterical minority that didn't vote for President Obama or the Democrats in the first place. There are plenty of us out there that vote but don't scream and yell about it and we are not going to vote for some off the wall crazy tea partier with insane ideas that will destroy this country and the middle class.
Laurie,
Exactly!!!!!!
husky,
Didn't Obama and the Democrats earn themselves a Supermajority in the last election touting the changes to healthcare, the war in Iraq and the Stimulus plan? I could've sworn they did exactly what they were voted in to do. If you don't believe me please note that congress voted in democrats in droves after having to go through only a short stint of Republicans having a majority (during the bush years).....
Wrong! Obama's polling numbers are at an all time low. Fully 58% of registered voters want Obamacare repealed. Democrats are running away from Obama and trying to run away from "Washington". More and more democrats are coming out in favor of extending ALL Bush tax cuts. Only republicans have not had to change their message.
You are going down this November.
I sent Senator Bayh numerous emails stating only the obvious here in Indiana. I didn't attack him, I asked that he think about what his constituents really want from him. I will admit that he is not the standard Democrat, that would never pass in the Hoosier state. As a Governor and Senator, he has done a pretty fair job representing the will of his state. He did make a major error in judgement regarding his vote on the health care reform bill. The presidential vote "majority" here in 2008 was just barely enough to swing the state. This state is RED, period (save the lightning strike one time votes). Remove a handful of voters in Gary and Indy and it would have never went the way it did. Senator Bayh read the writing on the wall, this is a conservative state and he was going to feel the will in November. I consider myself just left of center socially and leaning quite a bit more right fiscally. I disapprove of his vote because of the ramifications it will mean financially for the state AND the Union. Don't believe the hype, it will be an uncontrollable monster when it is fully implemented.
Both parties are in trouble because of the way they act in congress.
Excuse me the GOP was ignored and shut out completely in this DEMO controlled congress just how is it that they acted? They were not even allowed to speak. Any idea they proposed was shot down Nancy Pelosi said we won the election we rule! If they Blok the entrance we will go under or over or through what ever it takes and to HELL with what the American people want I am passing this Health care bill and then she had the nerve to say it is our gift to the American people. She should be put in an insane asylum for the sake and safety of all of us.
Wade-512031
Excuse me the GOP was ignored and shut out completely in this DEMO controlled congress just how is it that they acted? They were not even allowed to speak. Any idea they proposed was shot down Nancy Pelosi said we won the election we rule! If they Blok the entrance we will go under or over or through what ever it takes and to HELL with what the American people want I am passing this Health care bill and then she had the nerve to say it is our gift to the American people. She should be put in an insane asylum for the sake and safety of all of us.
The health care bill(and all legislation) is crafted and passed(or not passed) by our duly elected representatives. If one party gets enough of our duly elected representatives to pass(ram down or throats?) a bill, then the electorate got what they voted for.
Go vote in November, and then the new crop of legislators can craft and pass(ram down out throats) new legislation.
No, they did not get what they voted for. They were promised health care reform. Instead they were given a big pharma and insurance company bailout.
"Don't hold your breath" if you expect the "pledges" of politicians to be truthful.
-- Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Vote EVERY ONE of the LIARS out in November (all of Congress)
....but all politicians lie.
Bayh ran on the coattails of President Obama and then betrayed the heartland as well as the Nation. What's even more extreme rather than moderate for Bayh is for him to head for K Street as lobbyist and continue to devastate the planet and the American economy.
The Koch Brothers and Blanekenship could use another big mouth to further lies, greed, and betrayal.
Forget about lives effected the BP oil spill, Miners who lost the lives in VA, gas lines bursting, the recall of more than a half billion eggs in the wake of some 1,470 Salmonella, and any other calamity due to greed and betrayal.
Go ahead Bahy, deny Americans a decent living wage, let the middle class and poor drown in their bills while you'll continue to pollute the air waves and the planet for profit.
I see no moderation there either in wealth disparity or compromising votes.
Beverly-
To suggest that Bayh ran on the coattails of President Obama and betrayed the heartland....you CLEARLY don't know what you are talking about. Pres. Obama could not have won the state of Indiana in 2008 w/o Bayh's support.
I think Americans are over paid compared to what they produce in most field when you look at the world. Dolalr is holding its value because for now it is monopolistic currency. When we have to borrow abroad to meet our living expenses, as individuals and nation, there is something wrong with this picture no matter how you look at it.
We have talked ourselves that we are entitled to things, we fight wars when a fist fight might work and our sturcture where even parents refuges to help kids and vice versa making government as a guradian does not jell with reality of our finances. Even if you take away all corporate profit and give to people, it will not work. There will be no work and money are paltry. Only reason corporation makes any money is foreign workers who make most of our goods are robbed of fair wages. The difference between just and real wages of these workers is basically a profit.
RAJ
Maybe the Koch Brothers and George Soros could have a face off like in hockey and see who wins.
How could Bayh have run on Obama's coattails when he last ran for office in 2004 (he is a senator, you know), the same year Obama was elected to the senate? You make absolutely no sense.
I have mixed feelings on thestatement by Senator Bayh that, "Any deviancy from party orthodoxy is viewed as an act of betrayal or a lack of moral fiber." I personally feel, there are principles that are important to the mission of what it means to be a Democrat, and all legislation that is offered should reflect those principles. I think the problem comes when those principles are compromised, by special interests, and the votes are done, more in light of special interests, instead of the principles that make the Democratic party strong. When the legislators work for the good of the people, instead of their re-election liabilities, then the people will reward them. The walking in lockstep, and voting in unison, no matter what are the issues, to me is grounds for being fired. The legislators are just playing games, at the expense of the American people. I think they all should get a yearly performance evaluation, and rated like they do the President. If they are not working on the people's issues, then fired them before it is time to re-elect them. They do this on jobs in the private sector, why do we need to wait, whille they sat around and do nothing, but play games and waste the American people's money?
Yet another good idea.
The concept of the senate was to provide equal representation for the states of the union. The problem with the senate is the senate is now used to provide for representation of political parties.
That's why I think state legislatures should return to selecting the senators for each state. People elect the representative and the state legislature elects the senators.
Texas would still have two republicans in the Senate.
So would Idaho. That came up in the repub state party platform this year, but didn't have any real support.
It is bad enough that we have corrupt elections for the US Senate and House... you seriously want to go back to pre-Constitution times/British times where even more corrupt people are FURTHER out of touch with the electorate? The electorate being those lowly people that pay taxes and walk the streets of every town in the US.
With this promotion of such, you would make only those that have MONEY able to vote and elect officials because they can do it with their money... and then they would change the rules, yet again, to where we would be back down the path to being "Lord and serf" where he/she would have first choice of your children for servants...
But ultimately, that is where they want it...
F-ing idiot!
We will make sure you are one of the first shot when the Revolution comes around again because you support the 'Old British Rule'
RafW: What in the world are you talking about? Pre-Constitution days? People have only been directly electing senators since 1913:
"They also expected that senators elected by state legislatures would be able to concentrate on the business at hand without pressure from the populace."
Ok I agree.
Pressures from the populace? How about $$$ from corporations/lobbyists. Why would anyone in their right mind spend the millions required (donated or personal) to get elected to Congress if there was no money in it. Ideology may be alive and well at the local community level, but once you hit the state or federal level it becomes about the $ and lifestyle.
Promise to shoot any other Viner again and you're banned, Raf W. As it is, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
If Bayh really believes what he says, then he should be campaigning for Rep. Hill who is running to replace him, who by most accounts is also a moderate, instead of allowing the recycled lobbiest, Dan Coats to simply walk into the Senate.
campaigning for Rep. ELLSWORTH (not Rep. Hill). Believe he MIGHT have moved money toward Ellsworth's campaign, but not sure.
Unfortunately, the state is FILLED w/ tea-baggers more than common sense.
Ellsworth has only been a congressman 2 years. Yet, the GOP is trying to call Ellsworth the "Washington insider". At the same time, the candidate the GOP puts on the ballot held Bayh's seat before him, and was a lobbyist afterward.
Go figure.
Mark_n_Indy: I'm hearing that Bayh may run for Governor, once Daniels term is up...And Daniels will run for Lugar's Senate seat. Who knows?
I stand corrected on confusing Hill and Ellsworth, but both are moderates and Bayh isn't sticking his neck far enough out for either. He must still have this crazy idea that someday he'll grow up to become president.
Bayh is just another example of the politicians being out of touch with America. I think he's just making things up. He is just another off the rack, assembly line politician who has been there too long. We need new blood, Democrat and Republican.
What we need is for the Independents to support a Third party that won't get solidified into either the Republicans or Democrates. This is the only way to balance the constitutional powers without having to change it.
The tea party types have made it very simple "if you don't agree with me you are not a real Republican", you are not a "real American" your not a real Christian, hell your not a real person.
the way most of us feel about liberals
I think you mean the DEMOS when they say if you do not agree you are a racist, an ignorant, a moron hillbilly red neck etc... and you do not care about America. I only hear that kind of talk coming from the hate filled left . I hear the tea party say STOP SPENDING, READ THE BILLS BEFORE YOU PASS THEM, LISTEN TO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE,WE THE PEOPLE RULE NOT YOU THE GOV. Are you telling me you agree with the hateful liberals and not the Tea Party?
Forrest, I'm sure you're going to give us quotes to support your rubbish.
husky - Types like yourself and the likeminded on this vine should a your own personal island and go live there so we won't have to be offended by your presence anymore. Then you can rule by dictate all you want over yourselves. I suspect you'd all kill yourselves off before too long....not enough tolerance to go around I would suspect. LOL!!! I'm sorry but you really are pathetic.
Wade-512031
I think you mean the DEMOS when they say if you do not agree you are a racist, an ignorant, a moron hillbilly red neck etc... and you do not care about America. I only hear that kind of talk coming from the hate filled left . I hear the tea party say STOP SPENDING, READ THE BILLS BEFORE YOU PASS THEM, LISTEN TO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE,WE THE PEOPLE RULE NOT YOU THE GOV. Are you telling me you agree with the hateful liberals and not the Tea Party?
I'll ask again, but I don't expect one of you guys to answer. There is nothing going on now in Congress that wasn't happening under Bush. Why are you screaming now but were so silent then.
And yes it matters. How can I take you and the tea party serious when you both are so obviously insincere?
No I don't mean democrats I said what I meant the Tea Party people with the hitler signs, Joker signs, he is a Muslim, a communist he is not even an american citizen all that crap came from one side. However I do hear democrats claim that Boehner is orange, and McConnell looks like a turtle.
By the way Husky thank you for proving my point.
I believe those joker and Hitler signs are being reused from the Bush era. Oh that's right it's ok when libs use hateful signs of Bush but it off limited when the same thing is used by the tea party on BO.
I don't condone that kind of disrespect for any POTUS. But having said that we were attacked under Bush's watch not Obama,s, Bush started a war Obama ended one. The stock market crashed under Bush, it rebouned under Obama, and no spin can change the fact that Bush is a complete failure in comparison to Obama.
You are so correct Forrest.
By the way, gideb114, FrankH, Wade, you give the best redition of "No I'm not, but you are " I've heard today. What are you, 12? Cut and paste something original, please.
Unfortunately, only one-third of the Senate can be replaced in any one election cycle (2 years). That makes it astronomically harder to push any changes through in their traditions and procedures. The seniority system, for example, is one of the worst traditions in the Senate. It establishes their pecking order when it comes time to hand out committee chairmanships and other favors. Seniority trumps expertise, which is why you end up with accountants in charge of health committees instead of doctors, and so on, ad nauseum. It is a major contributing factor to the public's perceived incompetence in the Senate, which is running quite high right now. If those sitting senators who are not facing re-election this year don't listen to what the public is saying, their re-election chances are going to drop considerably 2 (and 4) years from now. The heat is not going to abate anytime soon.
First Bennett, and now Bayh. It's truly sad to know that political freedom and independence only come with retirement.
Madison, it is people like you who give independents a view into the hearts and minds of the individual parties. Why would I want to align with such crap as what just spewed out of your mouth? I know "freedom of speech" and all that, but come on...
I am an independent and I will tell you for sure that Sen Bayh is about the only democrat I have ever trusted respected or would have voted for. He is right to say the demos can not count on the independents. In fact he could easily be a conservative moderate. Like many GOP members are and almost all the independents are.
Bayh is a child of the unions and everything else that has caused our government to become so bloated. Don't be fooled by his moderation - any smart Indiana democrat will bathe themselves in moderation if they want to be politically successful.
Can't the guy just go out and do something in the private sector for a change instead of living off of the teat?
handgunner - I'm not sure why unless of course you are independently wealthy why you would spat on union members who are by and large hardworking middle class people who are trying to have a small share of the American Dream. What I get from you and your kind here on this vine is that that dream is only for a select few in this country and all the rest of us can go scratch. I'm afraid your loyalities are all upside down. The wealthy and the corporations don't give a rats ass for you and any of the people here spewing their party line.
Got here from the bootstraps, the son of a teacher and a legal secretary. The teacher was president of the NEA as well as president of state teachers' unions - a conservative, no less, back in the days when education unions weren't just in it for the money grab.
Mark_n_Indy
Beverly-
To suggest that Bayh ran on the coattails of President Obama and betrayed the heartland....you CLEARLY don't know what you are talking about. Pres. Obama could not have won the state of Indiana in 2008 w/o Bayh's support.
____________________________________________________
You mean after he gave up on Hillary?
That's the problem they are not for or by the People but for and by the Party. The Party system must go!!
In simpler times, Republicans were the pro-business party and Democrats were the party of the pro-middle class working stiffs.
Today business is killing the goose that laid their golden egg - AIG, Lehman Bros. banks swallowing banks, moving manufacturing off-shore, etc. Meanwhile, there is no longer a middle class in America; just the very wealthy and the rest of us trying to make ends meet.
When the political parties start representing the best interests of America by encouraging domestic industrial growth and protecting our domestic markets from slave labor products from abroad as well as by restructuring our tax system to give the lower tiers an even break, then Republicans and Democrats will be again truly distinct political parties.
Bruce - I agree wholeheartedly.
The two wars were never in the budget.
2008 was a Republican Whitehouse.
Question: how many times are you going to post this very inaccurate chart.
And the 2 wars were not included in the '03 - '08 budgets.
And when the cost of the wars was included we suddenly had a big debt. Cost of war 1.6 Trillion. Now that is priceless.
Plus, the Bush Tax Cuts were unfunded and also not in the budget.
Why do you insist on calling conservative democrats moderates?
Were starting a pool and betting at work going to be fun
Wow. I haven't really participated very much today but have skimmed the comments a little and have found something quite disturbing. I have now seen two instances today where a right winger has indicated that if you do not believe like they do, you should leave the country. Several days ago, a right winger told me that I should leave the country because I did not believe the way they believed and several years ago, the same thing happened in another forum.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this America? Isn't there this document called the Constitution that guarantees freedom of speech? Don't we hold elections where the majority of votes determines who represents us? Isn't one of our basic foundations that we may disagree but we are all Americans and it is our right to hold different opinions?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the right wingers who are yelling the loudest about following the Constitution? About restoring lost rights? About being 'real Americans'? That those on the left are not 'real Americans'?
What the heck is going on?!
When you leave home, be sure to hang a tea bag from your hat and you should be ok. No one will know the difference.
I could not agree with you more. I think politics needs to be more than I have my opinion and I need to force it down your throat. I am so tired of that. Politics should be about comprimise and discussions not attacks. That is the problem with both parties. (From an Independent)
Matthew...I understand how you feel. I'm waiting for one of them to have the stones to stand on my doorstep and tell me that. I'm a disabled Viet Nam vet and I would love to discuss it with them as I escort them up and down my street a couple of times. I'm in a wheelchair and it would still be a whole bunch of fun.
Correct, Senator Bayh. Which is why this country needs TERM LIMITS.
Independents tend to be people who don't want to admit they are really Republicans.
i for one am glad he's leaving. why didn't he just run as a republican? if the seat flips it dosen't matter. he never helped the dems.
We are tired of the caucuses and all the crap. We need people who are ready to debate and look at the issues, not vote on things they never read because the club requires it if you want to not have the crappiest office or job in congress. If you want any hope of keeping your job, you have to bend to their will or they will make sure you never see the light of day.....Love the system.