"House Minority Leader Pelosi"

Yeah, I like the sound of that.

The Fourth Estate

Once upon a time, there was a belief, amongst most of us who pay attention to the happenings of the world, or at least one’s own corner of it, trusted and believed what was published every day to keep us informed. Even after the advancement of television and the evening news bringing the Vietnam War into our homes, there was still a trust in what was read and in what was presented to us on TV.

There was no sensationalism in what was presented, it was the story with the facts as known. Maybe we were being naïve, but the journalist was a trusted envoy into a world where few of us seldom traveled. We were told the story and it was left to us whether or not to believe. Depending on the impact, it may have been discussed around the family dinner table or with friends at a social gathering, but it never had the frenzied tone of today’s news.

Why is that? Have we become more gossipy and opinionated because the happenings are presented in such a way that makes mindless idiots out of us (with our permission).

For the second time in as many months, the media has driven stories that should never have become sensationalized, both with unintended consequences. First, we had the Shirley Sherrod fiasco, which made fools out of people who should have known better, and caused a life change for a dignified woman whose words from a speech were taken out of context. The media ran with the story and members of government and private organizations never checked the sources.

Now we have the second fiasco, with the loony pastor in Gainsville, Fl. Who has more than received his fifteen minutes of fame by announcing he was having a Koran burning on 9/11. The media, tripping over themselves to record his hate filled, ignorant statements thus encouraging more loonies on both sides of the issue (and some in between), around the country and indeed around the world to lose their senses. In both instances, the media drove the story without thought to consequences.

People who call themselves journalists or work for companies who call themselves news organizations, have a tremendous responsibility to carefully review stories before publishing that which may become incendiary. Not, as has become the norm, in a rush to be first to break the story or gin it up to sell more ads or ratings.

Technology has changed our world and how news or gossip reaches us. It shouldn’t mean that ethics do not matter, it should mean more honor and integrity must be exerted to present the facts and not the wholly cheapened form that we are now forced to live with which has little or no sense of consequences.

You are supposed to be truth seekers and report such in a fair and balanced manner without any slanted views or a secret agenda. Or am asking too much?

From Associated Press late last night.

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — A federal judge in Southern California on Thursday declared the U.S. military's ban on openly gay service members unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment rights of gay and lesbians.

U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips granted a request for an injunction halting the government's "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the military.

Phillips said the policy doesn't help military readiness and instead has a "direct and deleterious effect" on the armed services.

The lawsuit was the biggest legal test of the law in recent years and came amid promises by President Barack Obama that he will work to repeal the policy.

My Opinion:

As a retired Navy Veteran I have no problem with this ruling. None. This should have been done years ago. While in the Navy I have had gay men approach me and I just told them I was straight and they never brought it up again I never cared what the sexual orientation of the people I served with. The only thing I ever worried about was did they have my six covered and did they do their job? Never had a problem there.

If these young men and women want to put their lives on the line for this country because they love it as much as anybody, who are we to deny them their loyalty, patriotism, and desire to duty in service of all Americans? These people are putting their lives on the line for US. There are many out there that do not instead they throw stones and complain falsely about these very brave and patriotic Americans.

If you ever had to call 911 for help do you ask for a non-gay fire fighter, or policeman? If you need life saving surgery do you ask if the doctor is gay or not? You get shot on the battlefield do you ask if the medic is gay or not? If there is a shipboard fire and you are manning the fire hose getting ready to gooseneck (that’s what we called it in the Navy) do you turn around and ask the sailors behind you are you gay? Of course not to all the above.

I am really tired of the hate and bigotry that appears to be growing mostly out of fear and misunderstanding. This is not what this country stands for. There are a lot of gay’s buried in Arlington and many with purple hearts, bronze and/or silver stars, distinguished service citations, etc.

Finally we have taken another step forward toward freedom for all.

These brave patriots have my respect and I thank them for their service as I thank all members of our Armed Forces.

Feisty: You are on fire this morning. The ads are coming out. The rallies are planned. GOTV is on track. Right wingers will continue to say outlandish things. Have a great weekend.

Gingerbread Mamma - I am SO hoping the WH doesn't take the bait and STAYS out of this hot mess down there in FL with the psycho Pastor! According to Patsy Buchanon this morning President Obama should step and and STOP the bonfire! Yeah right!

It's already been proven thanks to the MSM that any 'looney tune' with a double wide trailer - a handful of faithful and their plastic Jesus can hold the world HOSTAGE!

*shakes head*

PS: Thanks Ron - you are SOOO right about the outlandish things they toss about... Sometimes I almost feel sorry for them that they have NOTHING else to prove to America that they are leaders and NOT rulers!

*I said sometimes*... ;0)))

Good morning Fiesty, I wish I had seen that exchange. I too cant to wait view the new show. Good Post.

Joe in Albany

You shouldn't be so gullible. Are you aware of the farcical disproportions between Speaker Pelosi and Bohenor?

Speaker Pelosi will make sure the votes are there to prevent a CODE ORANGE.

She will give full support for a tax-and-spend package that would expand and permanently extend a tax credit for research and development.

She will give full support for letting businesses write off 100 % of their investments in equipment and plants through 2011.

She will help spend $50 billion immediately on highway, rail and airport projects.

She will give full support for keeping existing tax cuts for families with annual incomes of $250,000 or less and individuals making $200,000 a year maximum.

She will give full support for what would help small businesses too with the President's agenda; unlike Boehnor.

What is it House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio doing for an alternative plan besides freezing tax rates for two years and cutting back government spending to 2008 levels?

NOBODY DOES IT WORSE than John Boehner of Ohio. The people in Ohio thinks he spends too much time on his tan.

Don't let the Republican's dog you out Joe. Call your Republican Senators and tell them stop stalling the bill when the Senate returns next week. Tea baggers, independents, and those to left of center will not be that GULLIBLE. You can do it.

Ron Indiana: The ads are coming out. The rallies are planned. GOTV is on track. Right wingers will continue to say outlandish things. Have a great weekend.

Notice that the Lefties are just talking about what they know best. Rallies, slogans, group hugs, and of course being hypercritical of the "other side".

Notice what the Lefties are not talking about. 10% unemployment. Yearly deficits that cause economists heads to explode. GDP in the 1% range. Talk of another recession.

So let the Lefties chant, scream, and cry when their hero gives a speech. His speeches are just a jumbled mix of meaningless words. The reality is that results of his actions is clear to everyone, and those facts will become very clear to the Lefties the day after election day.

Navy: What I've come to appreciate is that military men and women serve all Americans: Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, gay, non-gay, people of all religious beliefs, Americans of all ethnic backgrounds. Thank you for your service.

Bev in Chicago: She will give full support for keeping existing tax cuts for families with annual incomes of $250,000 or less and individuals making $200,000 a year maximum.

Pelosi is on record that the Bush tax cuts should expire. Pelosi has been out of her mind critical of the Bush tax cuts since the Bush tax cuts were enacted. So now, at the moment of truth, at the moment of triumph for Pelosi and the rest of the Liberals in Congress, at the moment those tax cuts that have caused so much damage to the country (according to Obama/Pelosi/Reid) are set to expire, now Pelosi will stand on the floor of the House and argue for EXTENSION of those tax cuts?!?

Set your DVRs to stunned!!

She will help spend $50 billion immediately on highway, rail and airport projects.

Oh, that one is true. Pelosi, and the rest of the Liberals, can't wait to spend more money they don't have. Especially when it comes to buying the union vote.

JoAnna: Thanks for your comment.

STS

Lost for words this morning Joe. Or haven't you got your Limbaugh Fox talking points this morning? I think they've run out of talking points, nobodies listing to them anymore.

The United States of Fear. Bill Quigley wrote this powerful article at Common Dreams:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/07-7

The article details how far this country has strayed from "the land of the free and the home of the brave" since 9/11/2001. We surrendered our bravery and now allow the government (that so many on the right and in the Republican Tea Party fear and loathe) to listen in on our private phone calls, intercept our emails, build walls on our southern border that mimic (for all the world) the Berlin Wall that President Reagan called for Gorbachov to tear down.

We judge without facts, we torture and practice "rendition" without the blink of an eye or a second thought.

I challenge each American who votes to examine their consciences before stepping into the voting booth and ask yourself: "Am I part of the problem?" or "Will I be part of the solution?". Do I harangue folks about their views or their religion or their sexual preference? Do I perform independent research about what I hear on television from the "punditry"? Do I react with pure emotion instead of allowing reason and common sense to dictate my actions? Do I blindly follow those who stress "Second Amendment solutions", "reload", and out right lie about "headless bodies in the desert"?

Am I a hero? Or a coward?

And the republicans are not talking about

How they are going to lower the deficit

How they are going to create jobs

How thye are going to improve Education

What are they going to do to help Middle Class and Small Business

What is ther vision/mission for America

And Joe, Yes to your STS question. We do.

FRH: I am SO hoping the WH doesn't take the bait and STAYS out of this hot mess down there in FL with the psycho Pastor!

That bait has been taken by Obama. Rather then let the nuts be nuts, Obama and his administration have jumped into the Loony Pond head first. When the Sec. of Defense calls the nut pastor in Florida with the sorry politically correct excuse of "If this will save one life, I'll do it", then Obama and his people have taken the bait. Once again Obama is diminishing his office over some local issue that should have been meaningless at best. Once again Obama has dragged something stupid, not only national prominence (see Professor Gates/Cambridge police issue for details), but now to international prominence, and an international crisis.

Nice going Obama. We certainly continue to see your Community Organizer side. Too bad you haven't advanced from that position to the position you have now.

You are correct about Larry, I watched it..lmao

We already know the Republican agenda, Thats why we voted them OUT

Fellow Travelers:

I'd like to add a bit to Feisty Redhead's post. Perhaps the greatest lesson we learn as we age is that the adages and proverbs we learned as youngsters are true. That's why they survive generation after generation. Let's keep this one in mind as we head for the November election:" Don't count your chickens before they hatch."

The job of the left and center moderates has never been more important. The "Professional Left", as Robert Gibbs so unfortunately called them, are a problem. We must help them remember that since BOTH the executive and legislative branches have been in the hands of Democrats - less than two years, for Pete's sake - we have seen some serious change.

Sure, many of us would like to have seen a single-payer health system, but we still moved forward. The health insurance companies now know they are not untouchable. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down. Again, probably not the way most of us would like, but it's getting there. (By the way, let's not forget that the cost of those disastrous invasions is now on the budget. It's not hidden any longer.) I'm not going to detail what is really a rather impressive list of accomplishments. Suffice it to say, there are many, and if we can get the vote out, there will be more.

What is important to remember is that Democrats demand many changes. This is to be expected from those who tend to have a progressive mindset. However, it is the nature of our republic to make change only grudgingly. The conservative mindset provides a very healthy check on change that may prove to be too rapid. "Patience is a virtue." We must persevere.

But Democrats, liberals, and progressives - and it is important to remember, these groups DO NOT march in lockstep - are not facing off against conservatives. It may be handy for the media to call the Becks, Palins, Limbaughs, Hannitys conservative, but they are not. They are venal hucksters and rabble-rousers who trade on ignorance as they incite a very fearful base. Dammit, wake up. They are selling America on behalf of their corporate masters even as they line their pockets with their 30 pieces of silver.

This is why it is so important that we moderates get those who are on the left of the political spectrum to vote. Did they get everything they want? NO, and that's the point. They want a lot.

The Republicans and their totalitarian, woefully ignorant, and uneducated base want only ONE thing. ONE!!!!! They want Obama to fail. That's it, and if America goes down with him, so be it. They have the single-mindedness of zealots and they are impervious to reason.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." We don't even have to look back two years to see the disaster the Republicans gave us and promise to give us again. This should be the easiest choice a thinking voter will ever make.

Feisty, what happened with Buchanan and Lawrence?

Feisty,

Yes, and he eviscerated Donald Trump. What a self promoting tool Trump is. He is always self promoting. Why on earth would he make public an offer tendered out of the kindness of his greedy heart? And yes, 25% profit might sound good; but it isn't an unbiased, charity move either. As LO indicated, make him an offer he can't refuse; don't sit here and convince us why you think the offer you made was reasonable.

The extortion going on to try and capitulate to the fear drum beat on this community center is just disgusting. Trump sucks, plain and simple and anyone jumping into the fray at this point has the WRONG motive. Including that whack job in Florida who is seriously off the rails. The Sheeple are being herded -

US Nanvy: And the republicans are not talking about

They better talk about it. We see what happens when the Democrats promise prosperity to the nation and don't deliver, they'll be unemployed after the fall elections. Where as the Democrats solution to every problem has been to borrow and spend, the only solution the Republicans come with cannot just be tax cuts.

It will take real leadership to solve our problems. Cuts, politically unpopular cuts, will have to be made. We know the Democrats aren't up to the task. We'll soon find out if the Republicans are.

It will take real leadership to solve our problems. Cuts, politically unpopular cuts, will have to be made. We know the Democrats aren't up to the task. We'll soon find out if the Republicans are.

Joanna, how is it you can be an idiot on so many occassions and then post something that actually makes sense?

Pat:

Pat & Donnie were trying to get Eugene Robinson to agree with them that THE President should step in and STOP the madness down in FL!

Well... Larry was all over them about the propensity from the righties to bend the 1st Amendment whenever it suits them! Called Patsy and his ilk the party of Nixon! lmao...

Buchanon was trying to sell it as by not doing so the President is putting Americans in harms way in Afghanistan and Larry politely told him that is he thought they weren't ALREADY in harms way Pat was crazier than he previously thought! (I'm sure it will be on HuffPo later)

Clara: I missed the Trump exchange but no doubt it was as good as the Buchanon beatdown!

OMG - it was PRICELESS!

"Top Three Reasons Democrats will be smiling on November 3rd;"

Hmm...

I would have put "heavy sedation" at #1, Feisty...

Pat certainly is a hold over from the Nixon years. He doesn't know squat about democracy. Good for Larry!!!! The GOP are a bunch of paranoid cowards and always were. Including Pat. Donnie - he's another loud mouth pundit with nothing to offer.

And everybody is all over Rahm. Why don't these pundits try to do his job? They couldn't. They'd be laughed out of the room when they had to reach across the aisle, essential to getting anything done these days. Try telling Cenk & Co. that.

There are so many Democrats who are fired up for the midterms, but the usual jerks try to stick a pin in it; especially Cenk and his idiot friends. They are negative, 24/7. They should try looking in their own backyard at the politicians from their states and you know, work to get better politicians.

But no. They would rather just sit back and blame President Obama and Rahm for everything. They have the easiest job in the world - do nothing but b!tch. And they get paid for it.

As for Pat - why does anyone think for one minute that the right wingers know what they're talking about as it relates to freedom? They are liars and love to ratchet up the fear. They're cowards.

Gingerbread Momma:

Now we have the second fiasco, with the loony pastor in Gainsville, Fl. Who has more than received his fifteen minutes of fame by announcing he was having a Koran burning on 9/11. The media, tripping over themselves to record his hate filled, ignorant statements thus encouraging more loonies on both sides of the issue (and some in between), around the country and indeed around the world to lose their senses. In both instances, the media drove the story without thought to consequences

The media are trying to shift the blame to General Petraeus and especially to President Obama, because they both commented on the loony preacher man. But the only reason they commented is because reporters interviewing them ASKED them to comment. It's the reporters who elevated the story to a level worthy of presidential comments, not the president. The whole thing is 100% a media manufactured circus.

Wow, David Walker. Excellent post. I wish every progressive and/or liberal would read it.

I. for one, am getting sick of whiny and obnoxious Democrats. I'm also getting sick of whiny and tired of obnoxious Republicans.

But even worse, I am sick and tired of so-called "journalists" who think they are clever in coining words: "...the president’s eighth White House presser...."

When I read that, the first thought that came to mind was that the Obama's had hired a tailor for the White House.

I guess you could call that lazy journalism. Or maybe "the guy who wrote that has never had his clothing pressed".

Hey Navy, it's not gay if you're on your way, right? Honestly, I don't care now and I didn't care while I was in the Army. But I will say for now it will affect their clearance for now. I will say this, while I was in the Army, I knew gays and I knew gays to use their status to get out of deployments. Kind of a catch 22.

Yes. We were united. Then liberals went back to the things they're known for. Caring more about the rights, welfare and feelings of the terrorists than killing them like the cockroaches they are. Elevating our enemy to the status of oppressed victim. Doing everything possible to disrupt and undermine the War On Terror simply because of their political and personal hatred for the men in office at the time. Just look at how many of you yesterday cheered on the idea of sending that FLA preacher to Pakistan or wherever so he could "get what he deserved" from those terrorists over there. That's right. You took the side of the Islamofacists who would behead someone for excercising their AMERICAN 1st Amendment right, over that of said American , simply because you disagree with him politically. And you wonder why so many on the right question your patriotism and loyalty.

Jody: There you go being the voice of reason. Tomorrow should be a day of unity. I sometimes wonder, What will it take to unite this country when the neo-cons what our President and our country to fail. Great post.

Great post Jody!

I happened to be home that day and will forever remember watching the second plane it the tower! I still get goosebumps... 9/11 should be a day when we can put aside our differences and at least stand as ONE for the day...

But alas... that's not the case - you've got the CU's of the world who never miss an opportunity to say those 'outlandish' things that Ron was referring to!

Have a great weekend!

Yes. We were united. Then liberals went back to the things they're known for. Caring more about the rights, welfare and feelings of the terrorists than killing them like the cockroaches they are. Elevating our enemy to the status of oppressed victim. Doing everything possible to disrupt and undermine the War On Terror simply because of their political and personal hatred for the men in office at the time. Just look at how many of you yesterday cheered on the idea of sending that FLA preacher to Pakistan or wherever so he could "get what he deserved" from those terrorists over there. That's right. You took the side of the Islamofacists who would behead someone for excercising their AMERICAN 1st Amendment right, over that of said American , simply because you disagree with him politically. And you wonder why so many on the right question your patriotism and loyalty.

Thanks, Chuckles, for reminding me why the Bush Administration pissed me off so much. Please, don't let silly little things like The Constitution get in the way of running around cracking skulls.

Tell me, how did you feel when Bush let bin Laden get away?

Thank you for the kind words.

CU, no point in discussing your post except to say that liberals are as patriot as you are.

Don't give me that. You only care about the Constitution when it suits you politically or socially. You all just have a soft spot in your hearts for Islamic Radicals. Just like you do for American street criminals. I'm assuming you are implying that Bush let bin Laden get away intentionally? If so, that's not worth responding to. Any more so than me saying that Obama is a muslim, which he isn't. Take your tinfoil hat crap somewhere else, like MSNBC. Oh, wait....

Jody, Iowa

Your post is so reminiscent of the togetherness we had at that time.

We did put aside our political differences the way "we were". We came together as one nation. We were family. Tomorrow we must put aside our political divide not just for 9-11; but for every day henceforward.This divide needs to stop if we are to continue create a "More Perfect Union our President Obama so eloquently said his in famous speech in Philadelphia.

I think with your encouragement and reminders we can do it; if we just try. Your post is very beautifully reminiscent of "I-can" In Amer-I-Can means.

I was at work when it happened. I remember who told me. I remember where I was in the building, the exact expression on his face. NYC was in my territory at the time. One of my customers was within sight of the towers and sent his employees home because some of them would have trouble getting home. He stayed and watched the pyre from his office on the Jersey side.

That day I picked up some fast food and ate it in my car at the park instead of in the restaurant so I could listen to the radio. They were talking about over 100 ambulances that went down into the disaster, prepared for casualties. They weren't coming back out. There was no one to bring. On the way home I looked at the clear sky and the lack of jet contrails and I was angry. Angry but proud because I knew we'd come together as a country.

A lot of things have happened since then, some good, some bad. This would be a good time to stop the shouting and finger pointing and think. Think about what's worked and what hasn't, what's united us and what's divided us, what's been in the tradition of the American way of life and what's betrayed that or changed it for the worse.

God be with all those lost, and all who loved them.

CU take your hate back over to Fox where it belongs.

Just before 9 a.m., I called my good friend, who had spent a four day weekend at the home of her oldest son. His wife had just given birth to their second child, and I wanted to know how the babies were. When she answered, she said, "you don't know what happened? Turn on CNN!", and hung up.

Terrified for her, I did. I saw the hole in the building, with the flames, and thought that some idiot had flown a Cessna into the tower. As I watched, I saw a plane, and my mind told me that it was a replay of the earlier incident-then, that plane crashed into the second tower.

I thought my heart would stop beating at that moment. I knew, you see, that my friend's son, the new father, worked in the first tower hit.

It became a scramble for information, because many of my neighbors work in that area. I headed out the door to check with both my next door neighbors, and met my across the street neighbor coming to see me-although her daughter was missing, she wanted to check to see where my husband was-she knew he traveled extensively for business. He was out of the country, but he had left on Sunday, and was safely on the ground.

The neighbor to my left had two young children, and her husband worked on the 25th floor of tower 2. He had called her when they were being evacuated when the first plane hit, and told her that they were going back up, as the problem was not in their building. She screamed at him to get out of there-a second plane had hit his building. He dropped his phone in the confusion, and was missing for more than nine hours. Her mom and dad showed up to help her get through the day, until thankfully, her husband made it home.

My neighbor to the left had given birth to her youngest four weeks prior. Not only was her husband missing, but all four of her borthers were NYC Firemen. The only thing I could do for her was to help with the children while she worked the phones. We baked cookies until we got word-her brothers were safe, but her husband was still missing. Finally, agonizing hours later, she got a call from a local marina-her husband was there, with seven of his co-workers. Could someone come for them?

My down street neighbor was on the last path train into the World Trade Center. He said that the doors opened, the car filled with smoke, and everyone just sat there, staring in disbelief. Then, the doors opened, and they hurtled, (his word), back to Newark. Unthinking, in shock, he crossed the platform and got on the south bound train, drove home, and shocked his wife by walking in the door as if nothing had happened. He was, by the way, the first one to arrive home that day.

Another neighbor had already had a life full of tragedy. Her husband was killed in a car crash when her children were 9, 4, and 3 months old. Her mom had moved in with her to help, sadly, she had died the previous April of a massive heart attack.

She worked for Cantor Fitzgerald.

My best friend's nephew had delighted the family by announcing, at a family barbecue on the Sunday before, that he and his wife were expecting their first baby. The baby was the first grandchild and nephew in the family.

He worked at Cantor Fitzgerald.

So did a friend from my church, the first one to volunteer when something needed doing, whether it was delivering meals-on-wheels on weekends, driving collected food to the food pantry, or organizing social events for seniors in the local nursing home.

Another neighbor worked uptown for a bank. What we did not know until later was that he had a meeting that morning at Top of the Tower.

My friend's oldest grandchild barely remembers her father; the baby, not at all.

There are those on this board who demand that we 'get over it'. They are either heartless or mindless. None of us who lived through that horror will ever get over it.

They were killed for being Americans, for going to work. They left behind family and friends who loved them, and children who may or not even know about the hole that has been left in their lieves.

You expect us to get over it? Never. We will never forget.

None of Obama's platitudes will dim the memories. You think it isn't 'cool' to remember? Fine. We understand that 'coolness' is completely irrelevent when we are attacked for our way of life.

Think Progress:

Earlier today, Imam Muhammad al-Masri, the head of a central Florida mosque, brokered an agreement with hate pastor Terry Jones whereby Jones would back off his pledge to burn copies of the Quran on the anniversary of 9/11. Jones asserted that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf had “agreed to move” his Islamic center project near Ground Zero.

In a telephone conversation with ThinkProgress tonight, Daisy Khan — the wife of Imam Rauf — said there was no such deal made. She said Imam Masri had called her earlier today to ask whether Imam Rauf would be open to negotiating a relocation with Jones, and she said no.

Jones asserted earlier today that he and Masri are “flying up” to New York on Saturday to meet with Rauf. Khan told ThinkProgress that, while she and her husband are prepared to meet with Jones and Masri, she had not agreed to a meeting this Saturday. She said she told Masri that such a meeting should take place sometime in the future “when cooler heads have prevailed.” She explained that she would prefer not to meet with Jones on Saturday.

"We do not want to take away from the solemn day of 9/11. Our Center is not about 9/11, the Quran is not about 9/11, we wish to commorate 9/11 with prayers for the families of the victims."

________

On Tuesday evening, Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA) conducted an “America Speaking Out” town hall with his constituents. Gingrey explained that Republicans would solicit ideas from the public using their America Speaking Out online platform to generate a new version of the 1994 “Contract with America.” However, he said regardless of the input received, the new political document outlining the GOP agenda would focus on extending the Bush era tax cuts for the richest two percent of Americans. To reinforce his point, Gingrey said that extending the Bush era tax cuts “at any level” would be a promise so strong it would be akin to “God’s covenant with Moses,” and a “a pledge of your sworn sacred honor.” He also said that he would “sign it in blood if necessary”-

_________

Look at these two stories and tell me - who are the dignified ones and who aren't? Sick sick people in this country and they have the audacity to tell people they should not build their community center at Park Place? They want to burn Qurans? Simply mind boggling isn't it?

I'm glad they told Donald Trump - thanks, but no thanks.

Gail Collins said we will always have a percentage in this country who are nuts - she said it's about 5% of the population. What is different is these people have microphones unlike in the past. They have Fox Propaganda and Newt and Limbaugh and Palin and Beck paid to be their mouthpieces.

And we have to make it clear - the rest of us do not subscribe to this hate.

You know, Pat, I think you are part of the 5%.

70% of the people in this country are against building the mosque in that area. They are not all bigots.

I believe that a smiliar percentage will be outraged by this imam's latest pronouncement-which can only be heard as a threat-that if they are forced to move it, there will be another attack.

Who, exactly, are the hate-mongers?

Do you think that 19 American citizens will commondeer planes and fly them into the Burlington Coat Factory building? I don't.

For a short time after the horror, political correctness was shoved aside in this country. Now, it's back-but you are having a difficult time convincing the majority to join the 'cool kids' at their lunch table.

The proposed burning was wrong and hateful-building this mosque in a building damaged on 9/11 is just as wrong. I would be willing to concede that, at first, it was simply unthinking. Now that people's feelings have been made known to this imam, building it there is just as hateful as that proposed bonfire.

That's not the 'cool' way to think? Too bad.

Thanks for posting your memories about 9-11 Jody, John B, and no joe.

I was a stay-at-home mother of two baby girls on 9-11. I was watching the Today show as I always did, and watched live as the second plane hit, as rescuers rushed in the buildins, as each tower imploded, as the each report brought a new realization that our nation was under attack..

I was watching live when Jim Miklaszewski was giving a report from the Pentagon, and then the building started to shake, and then we learned another plane had landed on the Pentagon and a fourth was missing.

My husband worked at a hospital at the time, and they were put on alert to accept patients from New York . . . patients that never would arrive.

no joe, it saddens me that you would follow up such a beatiful post about the folks you lost on 9-11 with this phrase, "There are those on this board who demand that we 'get over it'. They are either heartless or mindless. None of us who lived through that horror will ever get over it."

No joe, when it comes to 9-11, there is no "us" and "them" - we were all attacked, we all mourned, and we were all changed forever.

The use of 9-11 as a wedge issue is just the effect that the terrorists wanted, to see America torn apart from the inside out.

No joe, nobody on this board, regardless of their political beliefs, supports what happened on 9-11.

If you don't know this in your heart and mind, I cannot imagine what a hurtful existence that must be.

I don't support the right of Muslim people to pursue their religion as a sign of support of terrorists, but rather as a sign of support for AMERICA - the ONE COUNTRY on the face of the EARTH established so that foks could be FREE to live their lives as THEY SAW FIT.

If we lose that, we have lost America, even if all the buildings remain standing. Let's fight for America, and not just against each other.

You know, Pat, I think you are part of the 5%.

I don't care what you think. Why don't you try speaking up against this hatred for once? These people who want this community center did not fly planes into these buildings. We opened up to the Germans after WWII, who in fact did have a part in the Holocaust. We have reached a point where it's okay to treat these innocent people in NY like terrorists. We are becoming cowards. And why ANYONE would care what the right wing has to say is mindboggling. They are exploiting people with fear, just like they did int he lead up to Iraq. You are part of that 5%, not me. Speak up. Make it a better world for your grandchildren, instead of what the right wing wants it to be be - constant war, constant bigotry.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Are there any "good people" in the Republican Party? I don't see them.

Don't give me that. You only care about the Constitution when it suits you politically or socially. You all just have a soft spot in your hearts for Islamic Radicals. Just like you do for American street criminals.

The bottom line remains...there are rules for how this nation and its government shall conduct its business. You cannot simultaneously claim...

1. We are AT WAR with the terrorists so they are not entitled to the Constitutional protections we give common criminals.

...and...

2. We are NOT AT WAR with the terrorists so they are not entitled to the protections provided by the Geneva Conventions.

We have a group of detainees sitting...and they've been sitting for, in some cases, almost nine years with no due process...no charges, no court room, no judge, no lawyer, no habeas corpus...NOTHING. Just keep that in mind next time you feel like crying about human rights in some other nation.

I'm assuming you are implying that Bush let bin Laden get away intentionally? If so, that's not worth responding to.

Does it matter whether or not it was intentional?

Bush failed and let bin Laden get away...that's a fact.

...although, I hear John McCain knows how to get him...at least, that's what he told us during his campaign.

No Joe,

Isn't it sad that some people have to be reminded of that dreadful day 9 years ago?

Nine years ago Congress gathered on the steps of the Capital and spontaneously sang "God Bless America" because they united in letting the world know we will not be bullied.

In those short nine years we have gone from being united and standing up against bullies, to rolling over and allowing them to do as they please. There will be no more singing of "God Bless America" because, well, we can't offend anyone. We need to be all things to all people despite the fact that is is the path to our own destruction.

Here's an excellent op/ed you should read, if you haven't already. I know it will be very difficult for most of the people on this board to read it because it tells it like it is.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/islam_center_eerie_echo_of_ancient_iRTMW6TprkULnaA1Nqi9xM

Pat, I am speaking out-although I don't call it 'hatred'.

That mosque should not be built in a building that was damaged on 9/11. Period.You disagree? Fine. Deal with the fact that you, and the rest of the 'cool kids' are in the minority on this one.

70% of the people in this country are NOT BIGOTS. Neither are 70% of New Yorkers.

This imam has not even complied with federal, state, and city law requiring the disclosure of the source of the funds to purchase the building as it stands, let alone the source of the funding to tear it down and rebuild. I notice an eery silence on the part of the left on those facts.

On this day, while I am mourning those who were lost, don't bother me with your political correctness. I am not in the mood for it.

Almost everyone here in New York City, expresses the same sentiment; We support the right of the property owners to build the community center. Period.

Having said that, we also feel that they should change the location, as it will be difficult to promote peace and religious tolerance at a site has become so highly politicized.

Talk about fear, hate, right wing media etc. driving the conversation in the city just shows that you don't live here. We couldn't survive for a day without tolerance for the greatest degree of diversity. We are able to maintian that tolerance by our sensitivity and respect for all cultures and religions.

I believe a site a block or two away, in the same area will allow everyone to feel that their sensitivities have been respected, and defuse the situation. Hey, It's New York, we adapt.

Nash-I was not speaking to you, or even the majority of people on this board. However, in the last couple of weeks, there have been two posters who said, "I'm over it. You should get over it, too", and "It's time to move on. America, get over it".

If you read my post, you will understand why I find that disgraceful. You will understand why I find it outrageous.

I did not make this an 'us and them' conversation, THEY did. They sound like teenagers who can't understand why the dance was cancelled just because the principal was killed in a car crash.

My tolerance for this is nil.

No Joe. Where did anyone here say it was not "cool" to remember 9/11? Your post was touching but you ruined it with that last, selfish jab of a sentence.

Yes, someone said a few weeks ago that it was time to move on--but you did not see many in agreement. It is time to move forward but that does not mean we cannot pause to remember. When we lose a loved one, we grieve, we remember but at some point we must begin to live our lives again.

My tolerance for this is nil.

After reading you for almost 2 years... I've come to the conclusion that tolerance isn't something you practice on this or anything else for that matter...

I agree with the above observations... you wrote a poignant post but couldn't resist the temptation to end it with bitterness!

no joe: I don't care if you're IN THE MOOD FOR IT or not. If you feel free to characterize me as one of the 5%, then expect a retort. Or don't say anything. This community center building is all BS and you know it. It started as usual by the right wing.

Feisty, what right does Pat Buchanan have to say anything about how President Obama should handle this pastor? It's Pat's "base" that started this nonsense. The base he loves, which includes Palin.

I guess up in Boston you don't get much news about New York.

The majority of New Yorkers are liberals. It is a very, very blue state.

70% of New Yorkers are against building this mosque, (call it whatever you like, it's a mosque) on that site.

The fact that you think that the overwhelming majority of the country is 'right wing' tells me that you have no idea who the president of this country is-or who holds the majorities in both houses of congress.

So, I'll clue you: Democrats. That's right-all three branches of government! I guess nobody told you.

It won't last, though. You should enjoy it while you can-in January, the new congress will be overwhelmingly republican. Obama will be stuck with his veto pen. And his whining. He's always good for that.

Thanks for sharing those memories, Jody. I'll never forget the horror of that day.

What I don't understand is why we are not able to separate the radical islamists who are the minority from the peaceful people who are the majority. I don't think the "reverend" in Florida represents all Christians.

No Joe---I agree with you that you shouldn't be asked to "get over it". I do hope that you and your friends and loved ones find a measure of peace and, as Jody just said, move forward as best you can.

oh, and Jody? I also did not see ANYBODY else tell that person to go peddle their papers, either. If silence gives assent, I could conclude that you agreed with that poster.

I've been on the board long enough, though, to realize that you do not call out your own. Unless it is a criticism of Obama, anyone from the regular band of left-wing posters can say ANYTHING, and you will either applaud it, or ignore it.

Call it out? No way.

No joe said:

70% of the people in this country are NOT BIGOTS. Neither are 70% of New Yorkers.

This imam has not even complied with federal, state, and city law requiring the disclosure of the source of the funds to purchase the building as it stands, let alone the source of the funding to tear it down and rebuild. I notice an eery silence on the part of the left on those facts.

70% of the people in this country are not bigots. 70% or more of the people in this country are confused about or ignorant of the purpose of the center, the large number of members of the religion (overwhelmingly non-radical) that exist in this country and worldwide, the previous purpose of the building, the purposes of other buildings in the area, etc. A majority of the 70% against building of the center, I believe, are acting out of some misguided belief that moving the center (already currently used as a mosque) a few blocks somehow protects the memories of those that died on 9/11.

As for where the funding will come from, I'm not sure the builders know.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-20/ground-zero-mosque-where-the-funding-is-coming-from/

I know it's The Daily Beast. Again, it's what came up first on the ol' google search. The NY Post store I read was just as unsure, though obviously slanted from the conservative viewpoint.

nj,

your assertion didn't pass the sniff test, as usual:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/poll_new_yorkers_conflicted_on.html

What I LOVE about New Yorkers is that when they don't have enough information to formulate an opinion, the'll say so. Unlike the M'asses' who are told their opinion when they get up in the morning and then they parrot it on command all day long. Sheople,...

I would argue that the more hype this gins up, the more people who haven't been paying attention will respond in the neutral. I further agree with everyone else, your 9/11 experience was touching; but your vitriol was a buzz kill. Funny thing is, we've been on this board now for three September11th experiences and this is the time you choose to open up. I would think you seemed 'over it' two years ago and one year ago. Nothing like a good nontroversy, though, to bring it all front and center. Steeler Fan, I mirror your thoughts; but find it hard to display the compassion. Sorry for that. Personally, I think nj should check her citizenship at the door. What is it that Paine said? Those who would cave on liberties deserve none!

Or not. I'm sure your motives are pure like whole grain alcohol. And equally beneficial to those who imbibe.

Tomorrow many of us will remember where we were and what we heard on that day 9 years ago.Was off on leave,..working in my garage, heard news about it on the radio and turned on the tv. The first voice I heard on tv said;"they're gone....the towers are gone.." It took a few minutes to register,I called my unit, grabbed my duffel bag by the door,and headed to report to what would become Operation Noble Eagle. Next morning, at WTC, as we got further orders for Bridges & Tunnels duty, you could hear the cellphones of loved ones , ringing and beeping.Those calls would never be answered. Weeks and months later,parts of our unit would be sent to Arthur Kills landfill,where most of the debris was brought to, any body parts found during the sorting would be placed in a Graves&Registration type area, with hopes of identification. The sounds,the smells, the helpless feelings may fade,but never go away. A little unity from BOTH parties, like we saw for a brief minute on those days would go along way right now. U.S. Army Retired Disabled Veteran

no joe, no bo, nj

The men who flew the planes into the World Trade Center and into the Pentagon were terrorists sent by Osama Bin Laden, the Saudi millionaire. He wanted to provoke America into an attack on the MiddleEast, which would weaken the current regimes there with whom we are allies, by turning public opinion against them. Osama bin Laden and the other fundamentalist leaders real intent is to bring down the governments in the Middle East which they consider oppressive to them.

The entire Muslim world did not attack us on 9/11, and the Muslim terrorisits who did weren't attacking Christianity. They were trying to provoke us to draw us into their own civil war.

If you recall, during the Irish troubles, some Protestants tried to involve Britain in their war against the Irish Catholics. The Protestant vs Catholics wars in Europe, as well as the Irish Troubles certainly do not reflect the core of Christian beliefs.

The muslims who wish to build a center two blocks from Ground Zero are American citizens with the right to worship all Americans are granted. Our constitution is stronger than the beliefs of Osama Bin Laden. We are better than those people who through acid on Afghanistan girls or stone pregnant women. We are better than them. I'm not scared of a Sufi run center in New York. You shouldn't be either.

No Joe. Why would we do what you suggested? That person was not speaking a political thought to discuss but a personal view on a nonpolitical subject, and has a right to that opinion EVEN if NJNB thinks it horrible. Everyone grieves in different ways. Many 9/11 victims do not attend the ceremonies because it reopens the wounds; some have said they wished there were none. I do not judge them for failing to want to participate; it does not diminish their grief. Just because some prefer to move on does not make them any less human for doing so. We are all different.

BTW No Joe, you can say what you wish about President Obama, you can be as mean and hateful as you want; the words you write speak volumes about you personally and not about the President--I really do not care what you think.

President Obama's words mean a great deal to me and many other Americans, far more than you want to admit. I look forward to his words tomorrow, to the words of the First Lady and all the others.

Just because a majority of Americans believe that the Islamic Community Center should not be built 2 blocks from ground zero, it does not mean that they are right.

The Constitutional guarantees are stronger than the misguided perceptions of a 'majority of Americans' (or New Yorkers). It was purposely written the way it was to protect rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

So, no jo, keep repeating that 70% figure, it only makes you just as wrong as that 70%.

Fact #1 - It is not a mosque, it is a community center with prayer rooms.

Fact #2 - It is not at 'ground zero', it is 2 blocks away and not even visible from 'ground zero'.

I was driving to work on that morning and I turned on the radio as I was pulling into the parking lot and I heard the announcer talking about the heads of other countries offering their condolences to President Bush and the people of America. The first thing I thought was "Condolences!?! Condolences? For what? Something awful must have happened!" I didn't find out what had actually happened until I got to work and ran inside and turned on my computer. I wish we could have maintained that spirit of unity that we had in those first few days. The saddest thing for me is that the terrorists have succeeded in their mission to tear this country apart and turn us against our own government and principles and each other.

I have to agree with those who cannot forgive our own government for failing to act when almost 3,000 Americans were slain by a vicious enemy.
An enemy who did not declare war, but instead stole upon us while we were engaged in the peaceful pursuits of going about our daily tasks, and destroyed these lives without warning, without a thought about the humanity involved. An enemy who, at the time, had committed this kind of atrocity on other human beings in other lands.

This sounds very familiar to me. Ah, I remember.
On Sunday, December 7, 1941, I was a young boy (but educated enough to grasp what I heard and saw) then and I was told to listen to the news and our President on the radio. There was no such thing as television then, but in our imaginations we pictured what had happened.
We heard how our Pacific Fleet had been attacked without warning, by an evil empire who had sworn to destroy America and Americans. How they had struck without warning, how more that 2,000 Americans had been killed and thousands more wounded by what was called a "sneak attack".
When our President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt spoke to the assembled Congress of the United States and asked for a Declaration of War, he was answered with thunderous applause by both Democrats and Republicans. War was declared by America.
On Monday, lines formed outside recruiting offices and men and women by the thousands enlisted in the various military organizations, their minds made up to fight an enemy that they considered evil, untouched by God and so vicious that they needed to be destroyed.
Americans, Republicans, Democrats and Independents, united in a common cause.
When did the change come?

Grow up, Joe.

In both cases, President Obama has acknowledged the Constitutional right to build Park 51 and to burn the Quran and the administration has called for restraint on both sides.

That you continue to fail to acknowledge this is sad indeed.

Building a new Islamic Cultural Center (to replace the old building in the same location currently in use as just that), with a basketball court, a culinary center, and available to all New Yorkers with prayer space for every faith, will result in what exactly? Burning a Koran is the equivalent of burning a Bible. It is dangerous for our troops and Americans living and working abroad.

The President defends the rights of all including Preacher Jones but as he said about the "mosque", he did not comment on the wisdom of it; and he appealed to the better angels to not burn the Koran.

What should trouble everyone about Joe's post, he finds it funny.

I'll tell you what's funny- that Ahole Fred Phelps whining becuse when HE burned a Koran, it didn'tmake headlines. Methinks I see the real reason these folks do the things they do.

Great cut and paste Joe, got any of your own thoughts or ideas? We are in serious trouble in this country and it is not funny.

Grow up and TRY to be part of the solution for a change. What would YOU do if given the opportunity to lead?

Same goes for you Joe take your hate back over to Fox where it belongs. Remember birds of a feather stick together.

Joe:

The President asked for restraint from Pastor Jones not because some Muslims will be offended but because it poses a threat to our men and women in Uniform.

What is wrong with you??

Sheila, MD

Joe:

What is wrong with you??

Being dropped on his head at birth would be my guess...

The same First Amendment that gives Terry Jones the right to burn the Quran gives me the right to tell him that I think he's an arse if he does it and that he does not speak for me.

Get over it.

Another cut and paste job Farley......do you have any original thoughts or ideas? Or would that be expecting too much from you?

Nice job CU, as it turns out Ann Coulter is almost first on my list of the Conservative leaders I'm thinking of as I compose my first post of the day. Thanks for helping to make my point;

Have you heard the news? The dogs are dead!

Most of the regulars here argue their point with energy, but at the end of the day we know we’re all Americans and entitled to disagree. Very recently, however, there’s been an increase in posters who don’t seem to believe anyone DOES have the right to disagree. Mostly they’ve been pointing at the polls and gleefully rubbing their hands together at the prospect of Democratic losses in November. Everyone expects that by now, though the magnitude of losses is anyone’s guess. Most of us realize it can only change the political dynamic just so much, but these folks believe something really big is afoot, a permanent change in the power dynamic of Washington.

You better stay home, and do as you’re told

We’re getting a lot of posts that talk about “taking our country back” and other strong statements about undoing 100 years of legislation. These are strongmen, Conservatives who feel entitled to whatever they want without consideration that they’re planning to sweep away policies that have been supported by the majority of Americans, in many cases for generations. Those who oppose them are called weak, we’re called sheep, we’re called WAY worse than that sometimes. The respect that our fellow citizens deserve is nowhere to be seen.

Get out of the road, if you want to grow old

This kind of bullying only escalates if not cut off. Who’s going to do that? It certainly isn’t our Conservative leaders, who are planning to undo the will of the majority by whatever means are available, to throw out the wisdom of previous generations who KNEW—not believed, but knew through personal experience that we needed protections and safety nets for the common citizen, and launch a flock of spurious investigations just to tie people down…and up. Someone will shortly come to the defense of these folks and claim “Liberals do it too”, but I don’t think any of the Conservatives can come up with a quote like “Say what you will in order to be a supporter of the Democratic Parasitical Party, you have to be in favor of stealing the wages of people that earned it and using it for your own ends or handing it to a parasite.Prepare yopur selves lib twits, those people who have been living off of the taxpayers, are about to get hungry.” From yesterday.

Have you heard the news? The dogs are dead! You better stay home, And do as you’re told, Stay out of the road, If you want to grow old – Pink Floyd

Poor farley, nobody told you that coulter is as big a joke as palin did they?

Now, back to the original topic of the posting, the Presser: I'm so thankful to get to watch and listen to our President, one who actually knows how to speak the Americanized verison of the English language, one who has learned to properly pronounce words and complete sentences, it will be a pleasure to watch the conference. For 8 sad years all I heard was a bunch of garble out of an uneducated mouth.

GM

Was it Farley or Joe Albany from yesterday's thread mentioned something about 15 year olds writing the posts. I swear I think they are the ones that are 15 years old here.

So that's why they don't have any original ideas or thoughts.

Everyone have a nice weekend and be sure to say a prayer on Saturday for the love ones.

John B. Excellent post.

TRR, you are correct they were voicing that opinion. I guess they had themselves in mind, lol.

You too have a wonderful weekend. Be safe and keep posting.

Ann Coulter CU you've got to be kidding. That just proves you belong over at Fox.

CU -

Your really a sick person, You need some serious help.

The same goes for building a mosque at ground zero -- in both cases, it's not a question of anyone's "rights," it's just a nasty thing to do.

Does this statement also mean that people of color have no rights to construct homes in certain neighborhoods as well...

GM, I sure will and you be safe also.

Hey Antia...hope you are doing well.

That's want it sounds like to me!

Hi TRR,

I'm doing very well and thanks for asking...just trying to get back into the saddle...

I just thought that I'd draw some similar comparisons to what GM posted...you know, sometimes people just fail to "really exercise their brain cells". I was always taught that sin was sin and that there are no greater sins because they are all judged as being unbiased (equal) in God's eyesight.

I did attend Sunday School as a child! lol!! Have a great weekend!

Anita, Birmingham, Alabama
Does this statement also mean that people of color have no rights to construct homes in certain neighborhoods as well...

Oh Yea!

We're back to being racists agains. Whew - you had me worried guys. I thought we might have to go a whole week without being called a racist. Way to step up to the plate!

just my thoughts-375664,

Oh Yea!

We're back to being racists agains. Whew - you had me worried guys. I thought we might have to go a whole week without being called a racist. Way to step up to the plate!

LOL!! So it's considered to racist when the word "people of color" is used to draw a very REAL comparison to what asses are doing. I assume that if I use the word Minority to describe those similarities would be considered racist as well?

Do you know the difference between people of color verses just black in general? Do you know the meaning of the word MINORITY?

I do remember my American history (the history that hasn't been re-written) and especially the concentration camps that were in America. The people that were rounded up because that "looked" like the enemy...never mind the fact that they were American citizen...

When will America grown up and stop demonizing those that are citizens in the "melting pot". Hell...wasn't that racial profiling?

Us vs them (pt 1)

(for lovers of the 1st amendment)

In an ultra-orthodoxy, controlled by a tiny core or "gang" diversity in thought/speech is discouraged and controlled by a system of punishments and rewards. Popular speech is rewarded and unpopular speech is punished. Popular speech is rewarded by affirmation from members of the controlling orthodoxy, likewise the same core group MOBILIZES as one to punish unpopular, or heretical thought/speech.

Popular speech, and the author are praised, seconded, and rewarded. Conversely, unpopular, or heretical speech and the author are condemned, ridiculed, ostracized, and if possible expelled from the group, preserving the orthodoxy.

Anita,

You equated people of color building in certain neighborhoods as a nasty thing to do and then claim is was not a racist statement? LOL

I learned my history as well. Remember the Trojan Horse?

Speaking of history - here's some for you, although I'm sure you'll find a reason to say it doesn't apply here.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/islam_center_eerie_echo_of_ancient_iRTMW6TprkULnaA1Nqi9xM

just my thoughts-375664

You equated people of color building in certain neighborhoods as a nasty thing to do and then claim is was not a racist statement? LOL

Actually...it was thought to BE a nasty thing to do by many that were and are still in opposition to residing by people of color...in so much that a law was passed forbidding discrimination. That law does in fact apply to those Muslims that wish to erect a Mosque at ground zero...

The Mosque in question (according to media sources) will in fact house a memorial to the victims of 9/11 and will addition include several places of whorship for various religions...

We should look before we leap...

also...the Trojan Horse...lol!! That same horse was allowed entry into the United States by the Bush Administration...was it not?

This sums it up well so far... I Achieved Unprecedented Levels of Unverifiable Productivity!

jmt, with that link you've accused Imam Rauf of lying to everyone when he says his purpose is peaceful. You've said that in fact he is celebrating a military victory and thereby committing treason against the United States. You've said that Islam is without exception a religion of violence and terror.

You might want to shift your cross to the other hand so you can pull your flag in a bit tighter. Your Conservative bigotry is showing.

John B, Des Moines, IA,

You might want to shift your cross to the other hand so you can pull your flag in a bit tighter. Your Conservative bigotry is showing.

Excellent reminder and observation to JMT...anytime that comparisons are made to people of color (black, white, yellow, brown or indifferent) they yell racist...and immediately equate "the word" people of color to being "just black " lol!

I enojy vexing those lesser informed and ingnorant in thought because it gives me the opportunity to force them to use their brains and at the same time...expose their ignorance...

LOL Ignorant? I hardly think so.

So tell me, how many friends do you have that are Muslim? How many times did a young girl call you crying because her father held a gun to her head because she went out on a date, which he believed to be an embarrassment to the family? How many girls do you know that went to the Middle East to have a surgery to become a "virgin" again?

The Imam lying? Yes, I do believe that and it has nothing to do with my religious beliefs or my citizenship. It has to do with listening to his words and watching his actions. If you want to build a bridge you do it together. He has stated, or should I say threatened, that it's going to be at that site and if not, violence will be the result. How is that working together?

Tolerance is a two way street, yet he only expects us to be tolerant? Why would Muslims not be accepting of a mosque three blocks away? Is that not a compromise? Isn't that how you achieve peace? Rolling over and playing dead is not a compromise, nor does it achieve peace. Working together for a solution that is acceptable to all parties is what is required. On the one side there is build it, but please do it a few blocks away. That is an offer of compromise. On the other side it is - we are going to build it here and if we are stopped there could be retaliation. Where is the compromise?

I don't care if someone is Baptist, Catholic, Athiest, Muslim, black, white, purple or green. I don't care if they pray to God, a donkey or no one. That is none of my business. However, don't tell me you want to be my friend and then disregard my feelings. That's not how friendship is created nor how a friendship lasts.

I'll give you a simple example -

If you have a dog and your "friend" is coming to dinner you have two choices. Keep the dog inside, knowing your "friend" doesn't like dogs, or you could put the dog outside so you can have a nice dinner.

I would be the one putting the dog outside, you would be the one keeping in inside. I would compromise while you would say, it's the dog's house as well so deal with.

Tolerance may be a two-way street, but compromise is not necessary when the feelings of so many are misplaced.

Your example is one of common courtesy, not of tolerance. Your friend is apparently intolerant of dogs. Perhaps he/she should get to know them. This pet analogy makes me rather uncomfortable though.

TRR, it was dangerfield. You know, the self proclaimed 'diplomat'.

STS.

Navy: Excellent! FACT based arguments beat OPINION based arguments every time. Lets watch how the Republicans will distort the facts...or leave them alone.

Here is some additional information on HCR

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius: We will also keep track of insurers with a record of unjustified rate increases: those plans may be excluded from health insurance Exchanges in 2014. Simply stated, we will not stand idly by as insurers blame their premium hikes and increased profits on the requirement that they provide consumers with basic protections.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/09/09/sebelius-letter-ignagni/

The Fallacy Of Insurers Hiking Premiums And Blaming It On The Health Care Law

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/09/08/insurers-profits/

So what your telling me is that the cost per person insured is going down but because the overall number of insured is rising the total cost is rising.

OK, I can accept that, but why is my cost not going down seeing that I'm no longer paying as much in my premium to cover the uninsured?

Alan

How long have you been paying that amount for the insurance? If it's been awhile then that's the reason they won't lower the amount.

The Fallacy Of Insurers Hiking Premiums And Blaming It On The Health Care Law

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/09/08/insurers-profits/

Just a question Dennis, did you actually read the article? Mr Volsky, the author, actually concedes that changes to the health care will affect the market for individual and small business policies. These are the ones that have received applications for the highest increases. He then goes on to claim that large group markets will not be affected. Well, nobody else has claimed this either including the insurance companies who have not raised rates substantially for these markets.

What the author is doing is comparing apples to oranges.

Kathleen Sebelius: We will also keep track of insurers with a record of unjustified rate increases: those plans may be excluded...

They 'MAY' be excluded...well, that's pretty tough language, I am sure when the insurance companies are through their collective laughing jag, they'll be falling right into line.

No need for another link to thinkprogress...

I can answer for the republicans Ron, they'll ignore them they never saw a fact they liked.

US Navy--great post. Critics are good at ignoring certain facts when pushing their opinion and view. Thanks for providing the rest of the facts.

My health insurance has gone up every year for the past 15 years--in 2009 and 2010, up 27% long before HCR was passed. I fully expect another big jump in 2011.

Navy, excellent point.

First, we have seen increases virtually every year long before the HCR Bill was even a consideration. Second, the Insurance Companies are pulling the same bogus stunt that Credit Card Companies did, namely increase their rates before the new legislation took effect. The Insurance Companies are pulling the same scam and as with the Credit Card Companies are blaming the increases on President Obama’s HCR Bill. This is bogus BS by Big Business to try and hide the fact that they are ripping off America again.

I applaud your initiative to expose the perpetrators of greed, betrayal, and exploitation through misinformation. I mentioned it yesterday and it demands repetition until it penetrates the misguided skull.

Another useful point that could enlighten and inform those really searching for the truth would be to expose the Front Groups who are in the employ of the billionaires. These billionaires, the Koch brothers have polluted the minds of the Tea baggers with conduits like Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and the rest of the water carriers in that cabal.

The Rally for Jobs tour is the latest astroturf attempt by Koch and the rest of Big Oil to use the economic anxiety gripping the nation to stave off any new attempts to crack down on the industry’s emissions and to block new accountability measures in the wake of the BP oil disaster.

The Koch brothers and various Koch-funded organizations have also been actively trying to roll back existing clean air and clean energy laws — both at the state and national levels. Koch brothers, btw, are the biggest polluters.

Remember. it was just yesterday we talked about the influence of the Chamber of Commerce.

Thank the activist right wing Supreme Court for opening up this flood gate with United Citizens. This is why we can not let the right continue to exploit Americans and support our President. Republicans want the White House back so they can stack the Supreme Court with a puppet on the Supreme court to carry out the billionaires exploitative agenda.

The Rally for Jobs tour is the latest astroturf attempt by Koch and the rest of Big Oil to use the economic anxiety gripping the nation to stave off any new attempts to crack down on the industry’s emissions and to block new accountability measures in the wake of the BP oil disaster.

A new Koch-backed national effort to protect the energy industry, dubbed “Rally for Jobs,” begins with rallies in Texas and will continue next week with events in New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, and Ohio. While the American Petroleum Institute, Big Oil’s Washington lobbying arm, is the “presenting sponsor” of the Rally for Jobs tour, several Koch-backed groups are also involved:

•FreedomWorks, whose Koch-founded precursor, Citizens for a Sound Economy, received some $5.7 million from Koch foundations.
•Americans for Prosperity, which received at least $5.1 million from Koch Foundations from 2005-2008 and is an offshoot of the Koch-foundedCitizens for a Sound Economy Foundation, which itself received more than $6 million from Koch foundations.
•The American Highway Users Alliance, of which Koch Industries is a member.
•Americans for Tax Reform, which received $60,000 from Koch Foundations from 1997-2008.
•The Institute for Policy Innovation, which received $35,000 from Koch foundations.
•The National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, of which Koch Industries is a member.
•The National Taxpayers Union, which has received $20,000 from Koch foundations.
•The Natural Gas Supply Association, of which Koch Industries appears to be a member.
•The Texas Prosperity Project, on whose board of directors sits Bill Oswald, Government & Regulatory Affairs Director at Koch Industries.
•The Corpus Christi Chamber of Commerce, which recently held anevent sponsored by Flint Hills Resources, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Koch Industries.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/01/koch-jobs-rally/

To reinforce the point; should insurers be allowed to pass on the costs for the new benefits or should they absorb the cost. This is for the individual market.

"Beginning Sept. 23 or later, many new plans for individuals and small employers must begin letting children stay on their parents' insurance policies until age 26. These plans also face a requirement to eliminate co-payments for preventive care, give coverage to children regardless of pre-existing medical conditions and eliminate lifetime coverage caps."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575482213099258430.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6

Alan-you do realize that you are trying to reason with people who can hold two opposing facts in their minds at the same time, do you not?

Costs are going up, but they are going down. Up is down, black is white, no one will pay more, but everyone's costs will go up.

The sky is plaid in Obamaland, Alan. Keep that in mind the next time you try to reason with any of them.

I'm not saying they are bad people. They are, however, completely disassociated from reality.

The health-care bill does help the less fortunate among us obtain insurance at reasonable costs, but because the Public Option was removed by our corporate owned Senate the middle class has been left in a very bad position in regards to affordability, they will be forced by law to buy insurance from a corrupt insurance industry regardless of cost with no alternatives the way the bill stands now, anyone that thinks the insurance lobbyists didn't win out over the best interests of the American citizen on this deal is just being disingenuous, the senate sold us out just like they always do, a more corrupt body of greed driven despicable shysters you will not find, and besides that they ain't "good people".

Feeling a little bitter there, No jo?

Navy: Great questions...Are you expecting rational answers...or does lowering taxes solve it all?

US Navy - I agree, it is like I've been telling everyone here in Tennessee, the repugnants may win, but guess what - it is bubba that is going to be the one who is shocked with the eventual outcome. When bubba takes that live in girlfriend to the hospital to deliver their 3rd or 4th illigitimate child and realizes her TennCare has been dropped (because that is the promise of Tennessee repugnants) and the only way they will deliver that baby is if he has cash up front he might not care who serves in the military, who marries who, and he might finally realize those rich cats don' really care for him at all except to use his vote and cheap labor.

Navy and Ron

Also doesn't Boehner want to go back to the 2008 budget.

Union Baby I couldn't agree with you more!!!!

US Navy you make a good point, but the republicans would use the next two years issuing subpoenas and investigating the Obama administration. They don't want to or plan to govern. They'll just try to run out the next two years.

Yes, Boehner wants to go back to the 2008 budget, freeze spending at those levels except for a couple things like military. Guess he has forgotten that the 2008 Bush budget was a debt busting monster.

Mr. Navy - Spot-on post. If the Republicans are so sure of themselves and their capacity to correct the problems of the country over the next 24 months, then by all means let's give them a shot. I may not be a die-hard fan of Obama or the Democratic party at this point, but they're certainly the lesser of two evils if the rhetoric is anything to go on.

Hmm, haven't seen any of the righties jumping on this thread to answer any of the questions . . . hmmm.

Well said, Anita.

Thanks Jody. I've been reading and voting on all of you all comments because they are all so excellent. I haven't had time to shout out too much because I'm trying to get out and hit the pavement today.

Thanks again and have a great weekend! :)

Sad but true Anita.

Sad but true.

Well done.

Thank you, Anita. It is good to know my thoughts are appreciated.

Have a great weekend!

Nash,

Thank you... It's just a sad day in America when our own elected party has chosen to take the easy way out and remain silent as opposed to standing up for what's right as well. I know that it's an election year...but if I'm not mistaken...isn't that the reason they are running for office...to represent the people. In my opinion President Obama is the only BRAVE one.

He chose to do his job as opposed to political correctness...and I respect him for it.

Because he chose to speak out in defense of what's right...the press and pundits had a field day with it but he did the right thing...he was elected to be the president of ALL people in America...unlike the past administration that focused on fear, separation of classes, empire building and Axis of Evil...

Have a great weekend Nash...:)

Jody they definitely are! Have a great weekend as well!

Hi Jody, great posts. I was appalled when I learned of these happenings last night.

How low is low? Just when you think the right has reached that point, they go one better. There is nothing off limits to them in their efforts to make a buck, lots of them, and a endless supply of fools easily buying this tripe.

Hi Jody!

Yes great post! The "far right" Rev. Glenn Beck and Sister Sarah along with the "washed up" stale politicians of the past that have done everything but die (some did and we resurrected) I find it amusing to watch...and especially while they are complaining that the leader of the Democratic Party is campaigning for Democrats... lol!! go figure.

I see that there's also a cable special on the events from Rudy Giuliani's perspective, as well as other prominent Republicans and other Conservatives. There's just no end to the quest for Conservatives to make political gain from the deaths of 3,000 Americans.

One day on my drive home Giuliani was on the radio screeching about how important racial profiling is to the fight against terrorism. After a few minutes I just couldn't stand listening to him lie anymore so I changed stations. It was just in time to catch the beginning of an intervew in which Michael Chertoff -- a Republican with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE trying to catch terrorists was making an impassioned plea that we must NOT use racial profiling in our anti-terrorism plan. He made the point that looking for a particular type of person makes it too easy for terrorists to take advantage of our blinders and walk right past our security because they're using someone who doesn't "look like" a terrorist.

For Conservative leaders it isn't about doing the right thing, it's about earning the right office or making money off their followers. It's about distracting us so we don't notice their agenda is to reduce our freedom -- legally and in terms of the opportunities we realistically can expect out of life. It's about control, and fear is the means of control that they understand. Giuliani can call himself "America's Mayor" all he wants, but he's a political opportunist of the worst kind.

Yea Palin, Beck and Gingrich will profit off of 9/11, then go to Fox and tell everyone what patriots they are.

Thank you. Your additional thoughts are terrific.

It is troubling that the same people who rant against the NYC "mosque" as disrespectful of Ground Zero and 9/11 have such twisted logic to justify being completely dishonorable in their efforts to politicize that day and the victims. VP Biden was right, Guilliani is a noun, a verb and 9/11.

Jody, Iowa

Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck will host a 9/11 memorial for "patriots who remember" in Anchorage, Alaska tomorrow. To attend, fork over $200 which includes food I believe, or $75 for the cheap seats with no amenities. No word on where the profits from this event will go but charging for a 9/11 memorial seems tacky at best.

I told ya'll these two were consummate con-artists. The frozen tundra queen, Sarah Palin is fast becoming one of the most eager Gold Diggers. And I'm not talking about the rubble left from the Alaskan Klondike Gold Rush either.

Newt Gingrich has a new video called "America at Risk" using graphic footage of the horrors of 9/11 along with a huge dose of fear and hate mongering. It is available for $19.95 plus $4 shipping and handling and the launch sale date is 9/11/2010.

Newt Gingrich is a dangerous, envious, greedy, deceitful has been who needs to go somewhere and sit down.

Newt

Profiting from that awful September day in 2001, using it for political speeches or to sell a video designed to stir up fear in the fearful is disgustingly low even for politicians like Gingrich who often reside on the bottom rung of character and honor.

It's divisive and a political ploy to garner support to run in 2012. That is a shame.

Hi Beverly,

Missed answering your shout out. You've been on fire! Have a great weekend

Jody,G.M.

I heard a clip yesterday on the Ed Show in which Glenn Beck says,paraphrasing here (it took me about a year to begin to hate the family members of the 9-11 victims, all the whining, complaining,).....

WOW JUST WOW!!!

This guy is really something,seems you can "restore honor", for the low,low price of between $225-$75.

I hope whatever money these two collect does go towards a just cause, not these hucksters pockets!

Me, too, about the money John. I've seen that Beck clip, disgusting. Hard to see much patriotism in any of them.

Ursula,

I could not agree more. I changed only long enough to see Donny Deutcsh espouse this foolishness, coupled with the standard issue "Obama isn't bold enough" retort, and then I changed.

I just don't have time for standard issue media pundit foolishness today, where every event can be boiled down to two simple words "Obama's fault".

One day, folks are gonna realize that Barack Hussein Obama is set for life, and that it is the rest of us that are screwed.

Critiquing President Obama's temperment and vacation spots is the real "Bridge to Nowhere", and it is costing us more than the original.

Thanks Nash,

It seems some folks have very short memories - it wasn't that long ago that Bush decided wire taps were fine, again, as long as the end justified the means. If we step around the Constitution for expediency's sake every time some jerk exercises his rights, every person who ever died upholding our Constitution died in vain.

Absolutely right, Ursula and Nash. It's our Constitution now, all of us in this time. We can hand it to the next generation intact or we can let it be destroyed. If we let that happen we should be ashamed. Those rights were hard won, they wouldn't be easy to reclaim.

Donny Deutsch is a rich a-hole with so much money he doesn't have anything to do, he's just bored trying to manipulate the weak that's who he is, he thinks he's king. Deutsch is angry because he couldn't make his own show successful.

Pat Buchanan is just an idiot.

Ursula, well said. The right, like Buchanan, preaches upholding the Constitution, they say the President isn't honoring it-- yet they advocate doing away with parts of it when it suits them politically.

I have pretty much stopped watching Morning Joe. Pat Buchanan rarely says anything worth hearing. Donny D has evolved into a loud-mouth speaking nonsense with no thinking. Joe whines and tells us how it was when he was there and how wonderful he is--how bi-partisan he is while ranting against democrats and Pres Obama; Mika smiles or makes faces and agrees with Joe. I once enjoyed this show but now it gives me indigestion.

Yes Pat: I'm ready for some football. November 21, Colts are coming to Gillette Stadium. And Payton Manning will be fired up and ready to go. BTW I'm happy to hear that Brady is OK from his auto accident. We wouldn't want to take advantage of those Patriots.

Oh! and Payton likes to play when the temperature is 72 degrees.

Pat and Ron--the Steelers would be happy to take advantage of both the Colts & Patriots!

Our defense will be stronger than ever with the return to good health of Troy Polamalu (and his million dollar hair!).

Me, too! And the World Series--the boys of October.

Hey guys, are you ready for some football???!!!!

Oh Yeah! Now we can really talk about something with Passion.

But I have to disagree with you about Chicago. Da Bears! All the way!

But I have to disagree with you about Chicago. Da Bears! All the way!

I'm hoping Yellowdog... I'm hoping!

Got my Bears jersey on today... while it's still fashionable to wear them! lol

Yellowdog Mark, Feisty,

I finally found something that I don't agree with you on, the Bears....GO PACKERS!!!!

We can all be happy with the Vikings losing their opener!!!!

Feisty: I think the Bears have something in common with the Cubs...Wait till next year.

Steeler Fan: Me thinks Big Ben will be setting on the Big Bench for most of the season.

I forgot---Go Chargers! As a San Diego resident for many years, nothing like the lightening bolt. But I was very disappointed to see they released LaDanian Tomlinson--a class act of a football player, in the mold of the Padres, Tony Gwenn.

A Packer Fan... eh John? lol

And YES I agree I was elated the Vikings lost last night (Sorry NDD - I'm just so over Brett Favre)!

Gee... thanks Ron! ;0)

Feisty - I'm hoping too.

Hard to be a Bears fan in Texas. Down here football coverage not focusing on the Cowboy games amounts to who Romo is dating.

John B. - Even though Brett is gone I still can't cheer for the Packers. Though I do agree though Favre did you guys wrong.

Ron--word on the street here is that Big Ben has truly cleaned up his act. Jury is out on that. From your lips to God's ears that Dennis Dixon does so well that we have a quarterback controversy when Ben is eligible to return after 4 game suspension.

Heard on the radio this morning that a team with an 0-4 preseason record has never won the Super Bowl.

So how about them (sports team, plural)! They sure played a great game the other night against the opposing team. Sucks about (injured player) though. I hope they can bounce back from his injury for the (regular/post (sorry, residents of Cleveland!)) season. I can't wait for their next game against the (next opposing team, plural).

I'm a Niners fan. We're lookin' good but really, we have little competition with the Cardinals in rebuilding mode.

Ron: you really think they'll keep Ben on the bench after his suspension? Dixon looks good and he has the mobility, but I don't think he'll look good enough to keep Ben benched.

Heard on the radio this morning that a team with an 0-4 preseason record has never won the Super Bowl.

Geeze Steeler Fan... between you and Ron... your ruining my day! ;0)))

Go BEARS!

Anon--I think the Niners are on their way back.

I think Big Ben will reclaim his job. Whatever you think about his personal life, he is a great quarterback. I think Dixon is a smaller guy and the pounding he will take due to O line performance will take a toll.

Thanks Ginger. A a big hello and hug to you. I'll need to hit the pavement today...see you over the weekend.

A second interview is always a good sign. When the Senate goes home to campaign, President Obama will likely appoint Elizabeth, which is a very good thing.

Nothing would make me feel better about the new banking regulations than to know that Elizabeth Warren would be in charge of initial implementation.

Yes, I think Warren will be the nominee. It would be good to send the WH an e-mail supporting her. Bottom up politics is what Pres Obama encourages. Let the voices be heard!

Good point. The 60's were turmoil with war protests, civil rights marches, cities burning, the assassinations of JFK, MLK and RFK.

Hello Gingerbread Mamma!

Thank you. You've been on fire yourself. I couldn't agree with you more...the families should put a stop to politicians that wish to politicize that tragedy. Many of the families aren't in agreement with the politics and if you remember...a vast number of them were really not in favor of continuing the war...

But since GWB did so a half ass-ed job of starting something that he couldn't finish (just as the businesses he started and failed at), stirred up the bee hive and left us exposed to further acts of terror by goading those that had nothing to do with the 9/11 tragedy...

President Obama can't just walk away...if he does that then it will send a message to many that the most powerful nation in the world is exposed to terrorisium...It sort of reminds me of hard nose corporate politics...stand your ground or get taken over...

Have a great weekend and HUGS to you!

Nashville_fan:

The same can be said of Islamic extremists - they do these heinous acts to get attention, and the more we give them the worse they act.

Ya'think? Islamic extremists are in a perpetual state of outrage. No matter what we do, they'll be outraged by it. Being outraged is their entire culture and belief system.

1. The imam trying to build the much discussed mosque in New York asked an interesting question on CNN that was glossed over and ignored: There are strip clubs on the same block where he is trying to build this cultural center - if the ground is so sacred, how come nobody is protesting that

The WTC wasn't attacked by extremist strippers.

JoAnnSmith your in a perpetual state of outrage, and have been sense Nov. 2008.

Right on target as usual Nash. It's all about painting Islam as evil and making all practitioners of one of the world's great religions into villains. It's all about uniting Americans against a common enemy so the daddy-government Conservatives can make us all safe again. It's about making sure we don't behave as adults because children are easier to steal from.

No, the WTC wasn't attacked by exremist strippers, but part of Conservative icon Rudy Giuliani's life before he discovered the joys of exploiting terrorism was protecting select areas of NYC from just such as part of his "broken window" philosophy. His tactics haven't changed, just his targets. Conservatives have found something bigger and scarier than "deteriorating morals" to keep people frightened and compliant.

And if it had been extremist strippers, would that make everyone without clothing a national security risk?

Joanna: As always, you demonstrate your exemplary ability to miss the point entirely when it runs contrary to your political views.

Nash: Funny you should mention the comment the Imam made. A few weeks back when the Park51 flap was starting to get big, I made a post on Newsvine pointing out that the insanity of people being more worried about the proximity of a cultural center to the WTC plaza than they are about (again) strip centers placed next to daycares or crime-laden nightclubs sitting adjacent to residential neighborhoods.

It'd be nice if we could collectively halt anything that enables and empowers the lunatics, but the kinds of provacative actions you discuss inflame the weak-minded on our end with startling effectiveness; Joanna's a fine example.

Mo:

JoAnnSmith your in a perpetual state of outrage, and have been sense Nov. 2008.

But I have something you'll never have Mo, I have a lot of common-"since".

JoAnna:

The "extremist strippers" line was funny, I must say! ;o)

But my larger point is that the WTC was not attacked by Muslims trying to build a cultural center either.

Here is something that I told my husband that I wonder about:

Do you really think that people who hate you would pay millions of dollars for a building in your neighborhood and go apply for the proper permits to build a sacred worship center next to you?

Is that a hateful act?

When you don't like someone, do you effort to move in next to them? Do you ask their permission to go about your daily life?

While we are persecuting these folks, the actual terrorists are LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT!

The irony is just sad.

Nash, I go you one further,

Our nation is STILL under attack by extremist EXTORTIONISTS - who intend to hold EVERYONE hostage to their ideology because - well, just because. Somehow there pain is greater than your tolerance. Or some other narcissistic bend in logic. Very pretzel like, no?

The REGRESSION of a country is probably the most painful thing to watch. But thank goodness for the ratings; because without them - all these pundits would actually have to work a 'Real' job.

STS on your stalker friend,...The Last Word will go to Lawrence O - not these has been retaliatory jokers.

Nashville_fan: But my larger point is that the WTC was not attacked by Muslims trying to build a cultural center either.

Okay, I'll wade into this, but just once.

It seems tolerance is a one way street with the Islamics. We are told to be tolerant of their beliefs, treat them with kid-gloves, respect their culture, respect their history. But that tolerance isn't being shown going the other way. Many people have an issue with a mosque being built next to Ground Zero. A tolerant person with the right to build a mosque at that site would say "We understand your issue with us building there, we understand your history with that site, we understand that many of you are against building a mosque at that sight, and so we will build it elsewhere." That would be tolerance and understand going in the other direction. But that's not what we are seeing.

And now this issue has gotten all tied into with the Florida nut who wants to burn books, and Donald Trump has joined in to bring his special brand of crazyness to the party. Unbelievable.

JoAnna Smith1

NO

Excellent post, Nashville.

As for JoAnnaSmith, I would say the common "since"--long "since" left.

JoAnna:

You have an amazing ability to ignore points that you don't agree with and just repeat your belief again.

This makes "talking" to you a very unrewarding experience.

The fact that you think that other people's rights are less important than yours, and therefore if there is every any conflict, your right to being "comfortable" should trump other's right to worship as they see fit, is indeed a very narrow and immature world view.

And unworkable in the real world.

It is not "tolerance" that allows Muslims to worship as they see fit, it is the Constitution of the United States of America.

I am always torn about whether responding to you is worth the time.

Probably isn't, but that optimist in me keeps trying.

Oh well.

Damnit, Nash, you beat me to the punch.

It is not "tolerance" that allows Muslims to worship as they see fit, it is the Constitution of the United States of America.

Nash - I'll keep it simple for you because it appears that is what you, and your dense liberal friends, might have a tiny chance to understand.

No one is stopping anyone from worshipping as they please. Got it? If you think otherwise, and you want to throw around references to a document that you don't have even one brain neuron of understanding of, please present the evidence.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

Joanna, you're either completely retarded or the ultimate troll. I'm gonna have to flip a coin to decide; best 3 of 5.

By the way, nice phraseology with that 'brain neuron' quip.

Exodite Dragon:

I've been flipping that coin for month's now . . . it comes up "troll" every time.

JoAnna:

A group of citizens wants to use their money to build a cultural center and mosque and worship as they see fit. You want them to move it because of something that they did not do and had nothing to do with.

And then you need me to "prove" that is what you are doing.

You are pretty much ridiculous.

Oh, and for good measure a crowd shows up to demonstrate just how much they dislike the idea of a house of worship in the neighborhood, and attack someone who looks like "one of them" just for good measure.

But there's no intent to stop them from worshipping in the manner that the Constitution guarantees? Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, must be a hedgehog.

JoAnna--it just goes to show that there is almost always something people can agree on---I'm with you on the Florida nut and Donald Trump with his "special brand of craziness."

*growls at dangerfield*

I would have said "Good morning" but that may be too cheery for you! :o)

That's sweet Nash, a cheery good-morning to you!...are you saying that because you know I live in Manhattan and tomorrow is solemn day here?

Or was it just snark to blunt your kindness...;(

I found Stewart's riff on Rick Sanchez interesting...

It's nice to know that there's some bi-partisan agreement on what a dim bulb Sanchez is.

He makes Sean Hannity and Ed Schultz look like William F. Buckley and Pat Moynihan.

I still can't believe that CNN would allow Sanchez to anchor one of its prime-time shows, even on an interim basis...I guess they figure that, given their current ratings in that time slot, it really doesn't matter.

dangerfield,

It was simply a greeting because I am happy to see you. Hard to believe I know.

I assure you that even though I do not live in Manhattan, tomorrow will be a solemn day here as well.

I am really hoping that slowly but surely, we can start feeling like "one nation" again, but it is hard.

I am snarky much of the time, but what I hope shines through is that I care - about this country and about our future.

If we don't look at both the good and the bad, we lose our way.

I just try to point out that every now and then, something good happens . . . if I don't tell you, who will? ;o)

Nash, Lots of good things are happening every day, and I hope you see that too....:)

Nice perspective from outside my bubble. Hope that attack dog has long, sharp teeth.

I've never thought much of Voinovich but credit where due.

Too bad Republicans have to wait until they retire to get out from under the thumbs of the party bosses and do what they think is right. Otherwise they'd be purged by the Conservative storm troopers.

It's also nice that someone in the republican party is saying how the republicans are lying to the American people. Good for you Sen. George Voinovich, your garnering a lot of respect from the real American people.

The shame of it is he's only doing it because he's headed out the door regardless. That's the sorry state of our government: tow the party line and expulse all ascendency to a higher purpose except when one has no practical chance of hanging onto the reins.

Democrats as much as Republicans are guilty of this. Frankly, I'm not sure how that kind of moral destitution in the arena of civil service can be combated.

No, just your mom's.

Way to go Bighorn, you sound just as incoherent as George Bush. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!