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Subscribe to RSSPresident Obama called the proposed Quran burning a "stunt" and a "recruitment bonanza for Al Qaeda" that "could greatly endanger our great young men and women in uniform."
"I hope he listens to those better Angels and understands that this is a destructive act that he's engaging in," Obama said of Florida pastor Terry Jones on ABC's Good Morning America.
On his White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel potentially running for Chicago mayor, Obama said he thinks Emanuel would be an "excellent" and "terrific" mayor, but that his "expectation is, he'd make a decision after these midterm elections."
Here's a transcript of those sections:
TRANSCRIPT:
On Terry Jones:
If he's listening, I just hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans, that this country has been built on the notions of religious freedoms and religious tolerance. And as a very practical matter, as commander in chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling, could greatly endanger our great young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan. We are already seeing protests against Americans just by the mere threat that he's making.
STEPH: What are you worried about?
OBAMA: Well, look, this is a recruitment bonanza for Al Qaeda. You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan. This could increase the recruitment of individuals who'd be willing to blow themselves up in American cities or European cities. You know, and so, I just hope that he says he's someone who is motivated by his faith...
STEPH: He says he's praying on it.
OBAMA: I hope he listens to those better Angels and understands that this is a destructive act that he's engaging in.
STEPH: I wonder what this must feel like from behind your desk. You're President of the United States. You have to deal with the fallout. And here's a pastor who has 35 followers in his church.
OBAMA: Yeah.
STEPH: Does it make you feel helpless or angry?
OBAMA: It's frustrating. But on the other hand, we are a government of laws and so we have to abide by those laws and my understanding is that he can be cited for public burning but that's the extent of the laws we have available to us. You know, part of this country's history is people doing destructive or offensive, harmful things, and yet, we still have to make sure we're following the laws, and that's part of what I love about this country.
On Rahm for Mayor:
I think he would be an excellent mayor. He is an excellent chief of staff. I think right now, as long as he is in the White House, he is critically focused on making sure that we're creating jobs for families around the country and rebuilding our economy. And you know, the one thing I've always been impressed with about Rahm is that when he has a job to do, he focuses on the job in front of him. And so my expectation is, he'd make a decision after these midterm elections. He knows that we've got a lot of work to do. But I think he'd be a terrific mayor.
Leave a Comment:
Unlike others, I do like Rahm Emanuel, however, I was truly disappointed in his "union" remark. It's just not something I would expect him to say.
But anyone can see that he has worked his tail off since January 2009. Glad to see Jonathan Alter defend him. Jonathan had a front row seat to a lot of the healthcare goings on. We did not.
You can disagree with someone, but to kick him out the door? No. Rahm has been a good friend and advisor to President Obama, something he needs 24/7.
"Truly great friends are hard to find, difficult to leave, and impossible to forget."
Pat,
I liked your posts today under first thought as well as Fiesty's, Ron, Navy and so many of the others of us who are not drinking the hater-aide. I have some mixed feelings about Rahm I'm trying to sort out. One thing, I do know is I will not support him for Mayor of Chicago. In the Huffington Post it says that statement is alleged. AFL-CIO's Richard Trumka not turning his back on the President.
Our "better angels", thank you President Obama.
Pat, I feel the same way. I like Rahm Emanuel, he is honest and speaks his mind just like VP Biden--they are what they appear to be, nothing more or nothing less. Sometimes they speak from frustration which is what I think Rahm's remarks came from because he is a strong union supporter and appreciates the "professional left", on that point I agreed and had even written comments here complaining about the same thing here before he said it. He is tough because he had to be.
The chapter on Rahm in Alter's book was very interesting; I had no idea just how knowledgeable and on top of things he is--he runs circles around many. He was what Pres Obama needed, he also understood just how difficult the Senate would be to pass significant legislation and as much as we didn't like it, it was the reality of blue dogs in the midst of that 60 seat advantage.
Morning Pat!
I want to echo everyone else's sentiments about your great posts! I always look forward to reading you in the morning!
Getting back to Rahm... I thought he was a spectacular pick when President Obama chose him as COS... but let's just say I've been more disappointed than encouraged by his actions in that position!
MeanWhile, yesterday, CNN, comeout with Poll results, from CA. Boxer up 48-44. KY. Conway tied with Paul 46-46.
Have at it, because this Fool from Florida aint worth my time.
I'm glad to see there are many Democrats here on First Read who are not so blind. My son is in a union (not auto) and I thank goodness he is. With three children, he needs this job. His bosses are wonderful; they take care of each other, etc. There is a lot of loyalty with union workers that I don't see so much out there in non-union companies. I don't know what Rahm was thinking; perhaps he didn't say it at all.
But we tend to rush to throw people away when we hear something we don't like. Hey, that's life. The important thing as Jonathan said was that President Obama delivered to the auto workers. And for that I am grateful that these auto workers were able to keep their jobs and income.
"With all their faults, trade-unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing of character in man, than any other association of men." Clarence Darrow
"Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised wages, shortened hours and provided supplemental benefits. Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice and democracy to the shop floor." John F. Kennedy
I'm a big Rahm supporter. He is focused on getting things done. I'm not sure that HCR would have passed with anyone else as COS.
I no longer live in the city but my brother and my friends that do live in Chicago will be voting for him if he runs.
I was pleased with the choice of Mr. Emanuel as COS because I think that job calls for someone who is smart, tough and not afraid of a fight. Probably the same traits that make a good big city mayor.
I think it is too soon to tell how he has done as COS---it has only been 2 years and we don't know all the background information on what has gone on--only what we've seen in public. I agree with Pat--those like Alter who are closer to the situation have a better take.
My only problem with caving on HCR is that we had the house, we had the senate, we had the President. Rather than cave, I thought the pressure should have been put on the Blue Dogs who really should not be in this party any longer. They are much more Republicans than Democrats. They don't stand with the people, they stand with the monied interests. So in that respect, I was disappointed in President Obama for not having the public option. Rahm does not make policy, he only tries to implement it. Therefore, I was disappointed with President Obama on that. My hope is that as insurance companies try their dirty little tricks, the public may demand a public option and put the greedy sobs out of business, or leave it to the rich. I have some mixed feelings about Rahm. Even though he does not make policy, he can certainly advise and had been the "dead fish" "f-bomb" whip in the house and knew the ropes. That being said, there should have been tremendous pressure put on the Blue Dogs. We can't shoot ourselves in the foot and cry foul about the Repubs, although they certainly have no intention of helping us "lesser" people (meaning lesser than the millionaires).
Quran Burning Pastor Was Expelled From German Church He Founded After His Radicalism Alienated Congregation
Before Rev. Terry Jones was being condemned by the White House and military commanders in Afghanistan for his planned “International Burn a Quran Day,” he was a pastor at an evangelical church he founded in the 1980s in Cologne, Germany.
Jones grew the congregation of the Christian Community of Cologne to as many as 1,000 members,
but his radical, hate-filled preachings eventually got him expelled from the church.
According to the German magazine Der Spiegel, Jones ruled the church like a tyrant, even as his sermons became increasingly Islamaphobic and hateful, prompting his congregation to kick Jones and his wife out of the church last year:
Various witnesses gave SPIEGEL ONLINE consistent accounts of the Jones’ behavior.
The pastor and his wife apparently regarded themselves as having been appointed by God, meaning opposition was a crime against the Lord.
Terry and Sylvia Jones allegedly used these methods to ask for money in an increasingly insistent manner, as well as making members of the congregation carry out work. [...]
Jones became increasingly radical as the years went by, former associates say.
At one point he wanted to help a homosexual member to “pray away his sins.” Later he began to increasingly target Islam in his sermons.
A congregation member reported that some members were afraid to attend services because they expected to be attacked by Muslims.
“Terry Jones has a talent for finding topical social issues and seizing on them for his own cause,” says Schäfer.
Former members of Jones’ German church described a “climate of fear and control” and said Jones insisted on “blind obedience.”
Some former congregants are even “still undergoing therapy as a result of ’spiritual abuse.’”
A German Protestant Church official familiar with Jones even said the pastor has a “delusional personality.”
In a heated interview on Thom Hartmann’s radio show, Jones confirmed that he had been the head of the Christian Community of Cologne,
but refused to respond to Der Spiegel’s allegations, telling Hartman, “If you want to discuss 9/11, that will be fine, if not, I guess we will have to end this conversation”
In response to his plan to burn Qurans,
Jones’ old church, said, “We want to distance ourselves fully from this plan and from Jones.” “We are as shocked as the rest of the world,” said Jones’ successor Stephan Baar, adding,
“This has nothing to do with us and nothing to do with our belief
Well said, thanks for posting this June. Terry Jones sounds too much like Jim Jones.
Lets hope this congregation does the same here in the USA that they did in Germany and kick him out of his leadership position in their congregation. He prays to the devil, not God!
Why didnt Obama come out and Support this mans right to burn the Koran. Because it is infact covered under our Free speech rights.. Thats what he did with the Mosque.. but instead of just saying I support his right to do it. He is trying to quelch this mans right to Burn the Koran..
Although i am Against his Decision to burn the Koran I support his Constitutional Right to do it..
Same as my Postion on the Mosque..
The media keeps saying that there are only 50 members in his congregation. But when you look at the church in the background - it is beautiful and very large. Who paid for that - 50 members? Takes a lot of collection plates to come up with that money.
I say follow the money.
Steve-505729
Why didnt Obama come out and Support this mans right to burn the Koran. Because it is infact covered under our Free speech rights.. Thats what he did with the Mosque.. but instead of just saying I support his right to do it. He is trying to quelch this mans right to Burn the Koran..
Steve, You got to be kidding right, come on, not with the way things are now, buring a koran would not be in our best interest. i mean there are men( troops) in Iraq and Afgan, that are trying to get muslins to trust us, how is burning a koran going to help them (troops), while reserving that nut jobs rights to free speech.
It will never add up.
Hey Jeff..
what part of the president came out in support of the Mosque to build in the spot they are using the 1st amendment. It is exactly the same thing he should have come out in support of this pastor has the right to burn the koran.. He didnt need to take a position on whether it was right or not. Only that they had the right to do it.. Like i said.. I dont support them in doing it. But i sure do support their right to do it.. In both Cases..
Steve..... you are right. why does the pres take up for this muslim fanatic makeing threats to the usa if the mousqe is not built on the grounds where americans were killed.If it is the 1st amendment heis useing then we have to honor this preachers rights . im tired of the president bowing to these people,they know what there doing and there laughing at us while we are acting weak when we should stand strong against these terroist if not for the victims families of 911 then for our armed forces.
steve,
He didnt need to take a position on whether it was right or not. Only that they had the right to do it.. Like i said.. I dont support them in doing it. But i sure do support their right to do it.. In both Cases..
You have made a real good point, and your right, but you see where i'm coming from, allowing that will not help out troops trying to get muslins to trust them, or plot to kill them.
GOP Claims $50 Billion For Infrastructure Is Too Pricey, While Pushing $800 Billion Tax Cut For The Rich
John Boehner “Cried” On The House Floor & Begged The Congress To “Vote For The Bailout of Banks”
Thanks Rachael check out the video on “YouTube”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVOS1CC6V5I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir1UABBe1v4
Democrats Put This Video In Every AD Now!
Now The Republicans Are Using The Bank Bail Out Against The Dems A Bill They Sponsored, Begged For Congress to Vote For After The Bill Failed! He Said
“Put Country First Vote “Yes” for the Bailout!
Americans Don’t Be Fooled Get The Facts!
So Concerned about the “Deficit” They Plan To Give The Richest Folk, $100,000 Each and increase the Deficit they Cling to By 3 Trillion Dollars!
Republicans are Holding The Middle Class “Tax Cut” Hostage
In An Effort TO “Force” The Dems to Vote For the Tax Cut For the Rich
Republicans are lying to the public saying “
The President Is Raising Your Taxes Middle Class when they know this is not true
The Middle Class Tax Cut must be Renewed and the Tax Cut For The Wealthy Must receive “no action” just let it expire
But the Republicans are lying saying that Dems are increasing your taxes to once again force the Dems to support the tax cut for the rich or they are saying we “Refuse to “Extend The Middle Class Tax Cut” If you don’t Pay off the Rich
Holding Americans Hostage To Force a Tax Cut For the Rich
Americans Read Get Educated Please!
June, Fl
John Boehner “Cried” On The House Floor & Begged The Congress To “Vote For The Bailout of Banks”
3 things your post proves:
1)John Boehnor and his cohorts have mis- educated their followers, Tarp was under Bush
2) John Boehnor is a lying hypocrite
3) John Boehnor is a drunk
I am not sure why the Democrats overspent in the Budget and are Going to Add 800 billion dollars to the Defict, They pit American against American and claim that people that have money are the problem. when infact the Problem is the Democrats that Actually passed a Bill that would ADD 800 Billion dollars to the National Debt.. Shame on you Democrats.. Shame on you
Which bill is that, Steve?
John.. the Budgets the Democrats have passed are what has Added to the Deficts and Debt.. it is their Over spending that will add to the Debt.. Not allowing People to keep money they earned.
Lets not forget the time that Boehner passed out tobacco lobbyist checks on the House floor to all of his buddies.
This man is only out for money. Can anyone tell me what proposals he has every had that helped the poor - to the middle class? Really.
Absolutely, Elise. When you look at the total body of work it's apparent that The lower half of the electorate--no, make that the lower 80%--is only thought of in terms of "how do I get them to vote for me?"
If this Koran burning puts our troops in danger and is used as a recruiting tool by our enemies, wouldn't that qualify as providing aid and comfort to our enemies? Isn't that the definition of treason? Maybe an FBI agent should pay a quiet visit to this gnat brained pastor. The agent should tell him that he could go ahead and burn the Koran, as is his First Amendment right but if any of our enemy uses those images as a recruiting tool, if any enemy of the US tells us his motivation was this Koran burning, the pastor will be arrested and tried for treason. No need for the President or Pentagon to lower themselves to talk to this criminal.
And yes, I think the same standard should apply for those who published the Abu Gaib pictures. The military should definitely have been held accountable and I do not think the punishments went high enough (Cheney and his minions should have been prosecuted) but releasing the pictures the way they were was wrong. Remember when the right wing was crying 'treason' for the release of the pictures? They need to step up and do the same thing now.
Matthew I'm reluctant to go to those lengths, mostly due to the American tradition of being very liberal in terms of freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
Do I think Rev. Jones should be subject to widespread scorn and ridicule in the public arena? Absolutely! That's another subject altogether.
By that token every news source that spread the story would also be guilty of treason and put to death.
Great idea, let's go for it.
I think it is foolish to burn those Qurans but I support his right to do it.
Where I have a problem is with the ASSumption that we as Americans must bow-down everyone else in the world just because some of us want to be loved. Everyone in the world do not love Americans and nothing will change their feelings so just deal with it.
Radical Islamist are trying to kill each and every one of us daily. If they could destroy America; we would be gone in an instant.
I ask Americans....What's next?
I was a soldier and most soldiers think this is stupid BUT as a soldier my life is on the line daily anyway.
Thy colors, RED, WHITE AND BLUE!!! These colors don't run..........
World Class LOUD MOUTHS, President B.O. and General Petraeus have spoken out against a Florida minister burning the holy Koran. But who spoke out when they forced our U.S. military to burn bibles to appease Muslims? Read it yourself.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/
Those Bibles were sent to Afghanistan so that soldiers could proselytize and try to convert the locals to Christianity IN VIOLATION OF ARMY REGULATIONS. If anyone forced the Army to throw those into the dump where the normal means of waste disposal is burning it would be the soldiers.
Bev in Chicago
Isn't it funny how some people over look what GWB and his admin did in the past.
Actually, Nobody, that does not hold true. If you witness/film a crime and report it, does that make you a party to the crime?
That being said, the MSM should just ignore this fool. I'm sure he, or someone in his congregation would record it and post it on the Internet. Same result, our enemies would use it and the FBI should arrest him for treason.
John B. I understand your reluctance but do not feel the same way. It is an intellectual conundrum that each of us must sort out in our own minds. Here is my reasoning:
Just as we must allow the freedom of others to do as they please, we must also be careful it does not infringe on someone else's rights. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said, as long as something does not pick my pocket or break my leg, it is none of my business. (not sure the quote is exactly right but it is in meaning)
The recruitment and propaganda that this burning will do for our enemy will both pick our pockets (higher security costs) and could break our leg (put our soldiers and us in danger or even result in death).
This must be balanced against the First Amendment rights provided in our Constitution but in this case, I think the Treason Clause (don't remember the exact clause number) trumps the First Amendment, in this situation.
Well stated, Matthew and I do see your point. It goes to the heart of why such matters are complicated. Justice is more than "calling balls and strikes" as it was oversimplified by someone who should know better.
I don't think anyone will agree with the proposed actions of Jones and his group. But here are some things to think about (my opinions and observations):
Does he have the right to do as he proposes? The answer is yes.
Should he do as he proposes? No. There is nothing of value in this action. The only reason for it is to insult someone else. This is a poor example of how to live, and how to lead people to be better people. He is just looking for fame. He's no different, in my opinion, then Al Sharpen, Jesse Jackson, Rush, Palin and Beck. Yes, I compared Sharpen, Jackson, Rush, Palin and Beck. Whatever your policial or social views (whether you agree with them or not) they are attention seekers.
I look forward to see how groups like ACLU respond. He clearly is counter to their views and agenda. Will they stick to their politicial leanings or the "defenders of rights" stance? To remain silent would be a sign of their conflict of interest. In the same light, rightwing heads show some of the same reluctance to be drawn into a mucky situation where, ultimately, they have nothing to gain and much to lose. We'll see how this unfolds. I don't really trust any politician, so at least this silly situation allows us to see them all squirm a bit. One good thing out of a bad story.
I'd just like it noted for the record, ACLU defense of the rights of Christians is hardly an isolated event. http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/
Did the president make a mistake by calling even more attention to this nut? Could this nut possibly be getting MORE attention?
It's hard to tell.
No, it was not a mistake. Jones already has center stage and has had for more than a week. It is important that the President speak to Americans regarding this.
dangerfield
Did the president make a mistake by calling even more attention to this nut? Could this nut possibly be getting MORE attention?
It's hard to tell.
The President agrees with General Petreaus. You're succumbing to media bashing. The media, especially Fox, will blame the President for everything including when the sun doesn't shine.
This nutjob's action should not be swept under the rug. It 's now all over the world and is a recruitment tool that needs to fought against.
Honestly, dangerfield-
Given President Obama's oft-demonstrated political tone-deafness, and his sure-handed ability to put himself at odds with the American public on issue after issue...
This is refreshing.
MB:
Is it possible for you to ever just write "I think he's doing the right thing" without adding a backhanded slap to it?
If you think he's doing the right thing, just say it. If you have to add the bashing, then saying you think he did the right thing is sort of pointless. If, on the other hand, you don't think he's doing the right thing, then just say that.
Bev-
I am sure you have always been a huge fan of general Petreaus' and everything he's said...
Someday I hope to see a post with your name on it that doesn't include fox news...but I ain't holding my breath, if you know what I mean...:)
As you are someone who obviously is not influenced by the media lol, you are in a great position to tell others about what they are "succumbing" to...
Have a great day!
BEV,
For someone that is always dictating to others what we should be watching; you sure seem to be the number one consumer of FOX. You all that bash FOX sure do know a lot about the channel.
If you watch it; just say so. You don't have to be afraid of these liberal wimps. I bet none of them pay your bills but you would let them greatly influence your path in life.
We don't watch it, the proper term is monitor the GOBP media wing.
Michael Thompson, Charlotte, NC-
Thanks for the sage counsel, and your always-appreciated opinion, Michael.
Given how deeply aggrieved you are, I wonder why you bother with me at all.
But...
I said exactly what I wanted to say...
Precisely the way I wanted to say it.
Otherwise, I might just as well have had you say it for me, eh?
Like Pete Townsend was "monitoring" child pornography sites?
Nobody believes him either...:)
I know most here probably "watch" fox through the prism of keith, rachael et al
Just like conservatives get their "liberal" news via right wing media. It is one of the reasons for the almost comical nature of many "debates" here.
How many actually watched Jon Stewart, "third rate comedian" interview DNC chair Kaine?
probably not as many as will get "excerpts" spoon-fed form their favorite opinion-meisters on the right or left tonight.
ITM, I am one democrat that has said in the past that I "do" watch Fox on occassion. Not because I agree with everything that goes on there but because I want to look at all sides and then form my opinion. But, let me tell all of you that Fox has been and is guilty of telling un-truths about certain situations and people and if they don't tell the un-truth they will cloud the issue in other ways such as not letting the democratic guests complete answers to questions because they are getting to close to giving the actual truth in the answer to the question. They accomplish this tactic by interrupting the answers by asking another question to try and move the point elsewhere.
I watch enough to know the tactics that they use and I am not impressed at all with the way they rudely treat some of the people that come to their shows. Granted, the democrats don't have to appear but at the same time I would not invite someone to my house just to treat them with this kind of disrespect. I have seen this for myself and no one has to tell me.
Plain and simple, Fox is in bed with the Republicans and should remove the "Fair and Balanced" theme from their advertisement. My opinion.
K-mac:
Insert MSNBC where you have FOX and then you might be on to something.
If FOX is in bed with Republicans; MSNBC is butt naked and legs wide open to the Democrats.
ITM, I noticed you did not attempt to negate the fact about the way Fox treats it's democratic guests compared to how they treat the repub's and conservatives. I never said that MSNBC did not show some favor toward democrats because they do, only not as flagrant as Fox. You should expect them to because they lean democratic. However, the fact still remains that Fox has given one million dollars to the Republican Party efforts, I have not heard of MSNBC doing that for democrats, therefore, my statement is more in line with the truth, "Fox is in bed with the Republican Party".
Sometimes it is easier to just let the truth speak for itself, don't you think? No need to continue digging the hole any deeper for yourself, just let it go.
Good one.
Thanks for the late-nite laugh, IntheMiddle.
I agree with President Obama. Well said.
I wish however, that Obama had taken the same approach with Rauf - that he has the right to build the mosque there, but wishes him to "understand" and respect the sensitivities of building it there. I wish he would have asked Rauf how "building a bridge" helps when the the act of building the bridge is seen as so insensitive and hurts so many.
We pay for Rauf to go to the Muslim world and build bridges. Rauf comes back and says if he is not allowed to "build his bridge" there will an explosion in the Muslim world?
Obama has done everything to build a bridge to the Muslim world. I just wonder if the bridges he and Rauf are building are two way bridges.
Big difference. Rauf was trying to peacefully practice his faith in the manner guaranteed by the US Constitution.
Jones is using his Constitutional right to free speech to express violence toward a religion he does not practice.
Somehow I'm thinking Rauf is not talking about an explosion of peace and love, John.
Big difference ?
Only for the willfully blind and naive.
That's it bob, don't give up on that narrative. Keep smearing a man who is devoting his life to fostering understanding between the faiths. Not all Muslims have learned their place and it's up to Conservatives to teach them.
John,
What part of explosion leads you to believe he is fostering understanding? If he doesn't get to build his mosque where he wants, there will be an explosion of understanding between the faiths?
Geez, even the ignorant jackass Jones with his 50 followers has now demonstrated more understanding than Rauf.
I realize being a proud liberal sometimes requires you to be willfully blind, naive or in denial. I'm not liberal, but it doesn't seem it requires you to be stupid too.
bob, the Imam accurately described the widespread anger in the Muslim world that occurred as a result of Conservatives seeking to deny Muslims the right to worship freely as contained in the Constitution and the ability to do so in a facility that meets local laws and regulations. Thousands at a time were demonstrating in places around the world.
What, it isn't enough to take a comment out of context, now Conservatives need to take single words in order to construct their talking points?
So if he has truly devoted his life to fostering peaceful understanding between the faiths, why would he willfully, deliberately and intentionally try to build a mosque on the one site in America where it would cause so much controversy and ill will?
How does this foster peace and understanding John?
Is Rauf stupid?
Why would he insist against all sensibilities to build it there and knowing that if HIS effort was denied, it would cause an explosion?
Isn't an explosion the worst thing that could happen, the one thing that he would avoid at all cost if HIS true devotion was to peace and understanding?
The stunning thing is when you think about it, there is more general ill will and lack of trust toward Muslims today, mostly due to Rauf, then there was after 9/11! He doesn't seem to be very good at the peace and understanding stuff.
If you can answer, explain, or present a reasonable reply to any of these questions, I would love to hear it. But, if all you have is "conservative narrative" "smear the" "talking points" liberal nosebleed, just save it for the next conservative you can't discuss an issue with.
Sure. Gladly in fact. Conservatives are inflaming emotions against Muslims and Rauf is on the receiving end. Why are people demonstrating against mosques all over the nation? Ground Zero isn't a reason, it's a rationalization. For generations people have been saying "Did you hear one of those people moved onto the same block as the Wilsons? I don't know how long this neighborhood will be OK." Chinese, Germans, Italians, Jews, Blacks--every generation some "them" has a turn in the barrel.
Some people just need any old excuse to show their bigotry, and some other people take advantage every time.
Oh, and I've tried to explain it every way possible as have others. I can't help it if you're simply intolerant.
Five simple, easy questions that anyone with an I.Q. of 40 could answer - and you didn't answer 1.
bob, no one including you has answered why people such as yourself are entitled to come in and tell Americans that they aren't entitled to exercise their constitutionally-guaranteed right to freely worship in the way they see fit. No one has given a reasonable argument for stealing their right to use a privately-owned property in a legally appropriate way that's in compliance with all applicable laws.
If you can't tell me why bigots are entitled to trample the rights of others then nothing else matters. If you think it's appropriate to trample on the rights of others then it leads inevitably to one place. http://far-above-rubies-and-pearls.blogspot.com/2010/08/strange-fruit-remembering-marion.html
John B, Des Moines, IA-
I've crossed swords with you many times, John, but I cannot recall ever seeing you display more intellectual dishonesty than you have here. You make reference to..."Conservatives seeking to deny Muslims the right to worship freely..." by opposing the construction of an Islamic cultural center just two blocks from the 9/11's Ground Zero.
But oddly, you make no mention whatsover of the DEMOCRATS across the country, in New York state, and even in NYC, who oppose this project at its proposed location.
On August 11th, CNN and Opinion Research Corporation released a poll showing Americans nationwide opposed to the proposed "cultural center" 68%-29%. DEMOCRATS opposed it by a 54%-43% margin.
On August 31st, Quinnipiac released a poll in deep-blue New York State showing that NY DEMOCRATS believe, 61%-30%, that Imam Rauf should locate his project elsewhere; by a 65%-25% margin, NY state DEMOCRATS feel that NY Atty General Andrew Cuomo should investigate the funding for the project.
On September 10th, Marist released a poll of ultra-blue NYC residents showing NYC DEMOCRATS split down the middle on the project; 47% of DEMOCRATS approve, 45% of DEMOCRATS disapprove...well within the poll's M.O.E. Further, according to Marist, 50% of NYC DEMOCRATS say the Ground Zero project "offends the memory of 9-11 victims".
Your effort to portray opposition to the Cordoba Center project as partisan in nature, rather than broad across the political spectrum, is disengenuous and misleading at best, John...plenty of Democrats, even majorities, oppose this project.
I'm hoping you were simply unaware of that fact...if that's the case, you should welcome this information.
John,
I have never heard anyone say Rauf doesn't have the right. I have never said he doesn't have the right.
That argument is so absurd I didn't realize you were seriously trying to make it.
Nope, no one has come out and said it. They're happy to bully and cajole him into surrendering his rights. That's even more insidious because it has the fake veneer of being voluntary.
So the Preacher Man and his merry little group of followers have decided to show us all how to win the war on terrorism. Apparently this whole deal was a whole lot simpler to solve than anybody but the Preacher Man knew. Why apparently all we had to do on 9/12 was strap on our pistols and go out on our front yards and burn a bunch of books. Send ‘em a “message” that we’re not to be trifled with. Maybe wave around a few of those fancy flags with the Rattlesnake and “Don’t Tread on Me” written on them and fire a few shots in the air for good measure. Throw in a couple of Confederate battle flags just so’s we are heard loud and clear. I’m right sure that when old Osama and his crowd received the Preacher Man’s message that they’d of just thrown down their AK-47’s and just ran shivering back up into the hills never to be heard from again. Just look at all the money and young lives we could have saved over the last 9 years if the Preacher Man had just stepped forward earlier.
Only little question that I have for the Preacher Man and his little group is if he’s such a dedicated man of the cloth with so much righteous anger built up is why are you’ll taking the easy path to deliver your message? I mean contrary to what ATT used to tell me long distance ain’t the next best thing to being there. Why don’t you’ll call up old General Petraeus and have him rustle up one of those big ol’ C5A’s and airlift you right on over to Afghanistan so you can go on down to the big market square in beautiful downtown Kabul and deliver your message up close and personal. Kind of eliminate the middle man so to speak so you can be sure that your message is heard without that media biased filter that everybody tells me about.
Guess I’m forgetting that it’s a whole lot easier to deliver your message in good old Gainesville surrounded by a whole raft of Policemen and Federal agents sworn to protect your unalienable rights to make d@mn fools of yourselves than to have to look the fellow that you’re fixing to piss off in the eye. You’d rather leave that little detail to the fine young men and women of our Armed Forces.
Your post is solid gold.
Not only is it solid gold but on the brink of "platinum". I love it!!!!
Here is a tidbit from MMFA, this guy is an idiot, I beleive he fits the definition of reichwing drooler.
Right wing compares book burning to building a community center
September 08, 2010 8:50 pm ET — 18 Comments
Media conservatives, led by Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, are comparing a Florida church's plans to burn Qurans on the anniversary of the 9-11 attacks to plans to build an Islamic community center in Manhattan.
Florida church plans to burn Islamic and Jewish religious texts
AP: Christian minister "vowed" to "burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." A September 8 Associated Press article reported, "A Christian minister vowed Tuesday to go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks despite warnings from the White House and the top U.S. general in Afghanistan that doing so would endanger American troops overseas." AP continued:
Miami Herald: Pastor "also plans to burn copies of the Talmud, a sacred Jewish text." A September 5 Miami Herald article reported that the Gainesville Dove World Outreach Center also plans to burn copies of the Talmud.
The Sacramento Kings basketball team has a mural of all their players downtown. It is a great mural. However, one of the players is from Israel and some nutjob decided he would paint a swatzika on the forehead of that player on the mural.
This is the type of actions that is being encouraged by the likes of Palin, Rush Limpdick, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, O'Reilly, Ingram, and Beck.
We truly need to rid our country of all these religious cults once and for all .These people are thief's and rapist's ..child molesters ...These religious cults have no place in our current government or lives .Why would Obama even address this issue ..he is getting some bad advice !!!
Are you saying all religions are cults, or just the Dove World Outreach Center?
Did anyone receive a 2010 Presidential Survey? It has a section 3 where you need to rank the following 14 national issues by their level of priority. Then a section 4 , 5 and 6 and so on and so on.
I just received my yesterday.
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Fox promotes Boehner's falsehood that health care law will "bankrupt" the country
1 hour and 9 minutes ago — 1 Comments
Fox News' Bill Hemmer uncritically repeated House Republican leader John Boehner's statement that he would repeal or block funding for health care reform before it "'bankrupts' the country." Hemmer ignored multiple Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reports stating that health care reform will actually reduce the federal deficit.
From MMFA, this post is in regards to some of the bull$h!t posts that have been put out today in regards to HCR. Now, there have also been some comments about why they focused on health care and not the economy..duh..health care is part of the economy..duh. This congress has passed around 400 bills and a majority was jobs and economy related only to be stymied in the senate by the dopes of nope filibusters..duh. Now lets go back to our time in grade school and a song we all learned that is also related to the economy.."the shin bone is connected to the knee bone, the the knee bone is connected to the hip bone" get it?
Fox uncritically quotes Boehner falsely claiming health care reform would "bankrupt" U.S.
From the September 9 edition of Fox News' America's Newsroom:
CBO: Health care reform reduces the federal deficit
CBO in March: Health care reform law will reduce deficit by $143 billion over next ten years, and by more in second decade. The CBO http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/AmendReconProp.pdf#page=2">http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/AmendReconProp.pdf#page=2">determined in March that the two health care bills signed into law that month "would produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period." The CBO also estimates a http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/AmendReconProp.pdf#page=12">http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/AmendReconProp.pdf#page=12">further reduction in the second decade after enactment "with a total effect during that decade in a broad range around one-half percent of GDP."
In June, CBO reiterated that health care reform reduces the deficit. The June 30 CBO long-term budget outlook http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11579/06-30-LTBO.pdf#page=36">http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11579/06-30-LTBO.pdf#page=36">stated that if the health care reform law is implemented as written, it will "increase projected revenues, particularly in the 2030s and beyond, thus slowing the accumulation of debt considerably." The CBO also http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11579/06-30-LTBO.pdf#page=11">http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11579/06-30-LTBO.pdf#page=11">noted in a footnote of its June outlook that although the law will increase federal spending on health care in the next two decades, it will also "reduce budget deficits over the 2010-2019 period and in subsequent years."
In August, CBO "confirm[ed]" its findings. In an August 24 letter to Sen. Mike Crapo (R-ID), CBO director Doug Elmendorf http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/118xx/doc11820/CrapoLtr.pdf">wrote:
I think we should burn alot of Qurans all around the country, then when the freaks that would kill someone over burning a book are rooted out, we can be ready with our loaded guns to send 'em to Allah!! But be careful, for God's sake(I said God...), if you burn them in Detroit!!
Seriously, I think we as Americans should burn Qurans. For I don't want anyone in this country that believes enough in their religion that doing something as totally inconsequential as burning a book should warrant death. God, any God, is great, but when religion is involved someone always has to get stupid... Lighten up Francis!!! and I mean this to any fool that would follow Islam into these stupid levels.. I'm burning a Quran, a Bible, and any other religious book I can get my hands on just to see which one works best for firewood....
Guntoter13: So you wouldn't care one iota if someone from another country got a pile of Amrican flags and burned them all with another group of foreigners looking on and cheering. After all, a flag is just a flag.. just a piece of material. No harm done. doesn't mean a thing...........Right?
ramboet;
They do that shyt anyway.......
jomama72
reichwing= hate speech of the highest order.
Promoting hate is wrong, period.
Rambo baby- Please post the anti-Semitic words of inspiration from the above. As a Jew I am somewhat sensitive to that kind of stuff myself. Oddly, I never saw you, or frankly anyone on the board criticize Eric, who while he is about as liberal as any poster here, has written the most disgusting anti-semetic rants I have heard outside of an Aryan Nation convention.
The posters who can't seem to write anything here that doesn't include a heavy dose of vitriol for their opposition decrying this Koran burning nut and that overheated rhetoric leads to violence should read some of their own stuff.
Danger, when they come they will be wrapped in the american flag and spouting the constitution..just saying.
Jo-
They are HERE, in our country in our midst and on this board. You only see the danger from one direction, but I see the whole FIELD fraught with that very DANGER...:)
Just saying...
Danger,love ya man, like the guy with the glass eye said, "I will keep an eye out for ya"
J-
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man(woman) is king...:)
If I was President, I'd burn a book of each of the major religions on the front lawn just to show all Americans that the books are just that, books. None are more or less worth any more than the next... and definitely none are worth anyone's life. You can always get another one.
Question: If a Quran burns in the house of someone who believes that you should not burn the Quran, do they have to kill themselves for allowing it to burn?
The church now has no presence online.
Its internet provider has pulled both church websites.
"We feel that is an indirect of course violation of our freedom of expression, freedom of speech, because they are trying to shut us down," Jones said in response.
Opposition is mounting from around the world, including New York.
"If you're about religion, whether it is Christian or Muslim, why do you want to offend people?" asked former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
http://www.wltz.com/news/local/Obama-Speaks-Out-Against-Quran-Burning--102536774.html
Please explain to me how an internet service provider refusing to provide services is interfering with this man's First Amendment freedoms? Why is it that people do not understand that the First Amendment applies to GOVERNMENT restrictions on freedom of speech and religion.
The First Amendment to the Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Note the first word: CONGRESS.
Good point SF. Kind of reminds me of when one or another of the Conservative talkers gives a speech about infringing on their 1st Amendment rights because they lose a sponsor over a boycott. They have the right to say whatever they want. The 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee them a radio microphone and millions of dollars per year in pay to do so.
I'm thinking of making money on this. I'm gonna start selling Quran torches for patio parties....
As I said yesterday regarding Rahm and his backing by the President - it smacks of cronyism to me, little else.
Now, I do feel that his comments about the impending Qu'ran barbeque and the lunacy of Terry Jones is spot-on. I consistently see this argument that a defense of the Park51 center's location and an admonishment of Dove Outreach is an example of hypocritical thinking, but that couldn't be further from the truth.
If we accept as fact that religious tolerance and peace is a pillar of modern American society, then any act committed for the sake of hateful vengeance is something that we shouldn't accept. What these people in Gainesville are out for has nothing to do with promoting peace, an irony giving the name of their church. It's meant only to incite and provoke, something we must draw the line at.
Funny you should mention that Dragon! I always thought that his appointment was a 'pay back' to the Clinton's... now who doesn't love them a good conspiracy theory? lol
I will take Rahm over Karl Turd blossom any day.
@Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL: Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! I can pretend I'm in a very special episode of the X-Files.
If you were freezing to death and the only thing you can find is a Quran, is it OK to burn it to save your life or is that all for naught as you'd be killed for doing that?
What if you only burned the filler pages and cover?
Sounds Like the Westboro Baptist church . What they do is legal but dispicable. Where's all the "It's his right to his freedom of speech " on this one? Oh someone might get hurt or killed, so thats different? Has anyone been to the god hates fags website? Freedom is freedom. This Idiot should have been ignored. Instead our leftwing media gave this Idiot his 15 minutes of fame. At what cost? Yes they have every right to report it. But if it wasnt brought to national and international attention the stupid pastor and his 35 blind sheep would have done their stupid little deed and that would have been the end of it. Sometimes though we have the right to do something doesnt mean we should. This one should have been left way down yonder to be forgotten about. Just another can of worms we cant unopen.
President B.O. and loud mouth General Petraeus have spoken out against a Florida minister burning the holy Koran. But who spoke out when they forced our U.S. military to burn bibles to appease Muslims? Read it yourself.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/
WORLD CLASS LOUD MOUTHS, President B.O. and General Petraeus have spoken out against a Florida minister burning the holy Koran. But who spoke out when they forced our U.S. military to burn bibles to appease Muslims? Read it yourself.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/
Joe, those Bibles were sent to the soldiers for the express purpose of violating Army rules and trying to convert the locals to Christianity. If the soldiers didn't want their Gibles taken they shouldn't have broken Army rules against proselytizing.
Religious extremism is the scourge of this world. The vast majority of political arguments and conflicts in the world today are rooted in some religious dispute. This applies to everyone: Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, and on and on. Whether it's same-sex mariage, abortion, the Middle East, or Afghanistan, the problem is the same. The people who are creating the dispute are overly religious. People who let religion dominate their lives are, at the very least, obnoxious, and at the worst, dangerous. These people need to get a life, or at least a hobby, and start minding their own affairs. The rest of us would be better off for it.