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Subscribe to RSSNote: This is the last Friday we scale back our morning note. Below is a fun Top 10 list to read as you take advantage of (hopefully) a long Labor Day weekend. Our morning note will return this coming Tuesday.
From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Ali Weinberg
*** First Read’s Top 10 events that shaped the midterm season: Now less than two months before Election Day, we look at what we consider the Top 10 events that have shaped this midterm season.
1. Health-care reform signed into law (March 23, 2010): It was a historic event, but -- in the short term -- no issue has been more responsible for energizing Republicans and conservatives in November, and for fueling the charge of government overreach.
2. Greece riots, Dow plunges 1,000 points before partially recovering (May 6, 2010): As we argued yesterday, this event might have killed all the economic progress the U.S. was making in the first part of the year. What has created more uncertainty for investors and business -- the Obama administration, or that European instability? http://bit.ly/csc8Rp
3. The Deepwater Horizon explosion (April 20, 2010): This explosion -- and the oil spill it produced -- created an ongoing crisis for the Obama administration, it distracted them from being able to focus on other things (like the economy), and it delivered a psychological blow to the entire country.
4. Scott Brown's victory (Jan. 19, 2010): The precursor of things to come for Republicans in November? Brown winning Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat displayed GOP energy and enthusiasm. What's more, the Republicans' win eliminated the Dems’ filibuster-proof majority and forced them to spend another two months to pass health care -- which essentially killed the chances to pass energy reform.
5. Charlie Crist leaves the GOP (April 29, 2010): This was truly the first event signaling that the Tea Party had taken over the GOP. Robert Bennett's loss in Utah loss and wins by Rand Paul in Kentucky and Sharron Angle in Nevada would soon follow.
6. Obama fires GM’s CEO (March 30, 2009): In retrospect, this move appears to have been a success. But at the time, it furthered the GOP critique that the government was getting too involved in private business.
7. PA-12 (May 18, 2010): Despite the favorable political climate for them, Republicans lost this special congressional election -- their third-straight loss in a competitive House special since Obama took office. Democrats believe these victories show their strength (and the GOP's weakness) in winning contested House races. Will that play out in November?
8. Michael Steele's Afghanistan gaffe (July 1, 2010): Here's another hope for Democrats -- the problems at the RNC, an institution that has been essential for the GOP in funding their races and turning out the vote. But this gaffe by Steele -- essentially saying that the war there was a mistake -- was really the last straw for many Republicans, and the GOP heads into November without a strong RNC.
9. Obama wades into the mosque controversy (Aug. 13, 2010): Democrats also have had their share of distractions, and President Obama wading into the controversy over the mosque near Ground Zero, and then appearing to walk it back the next day, was the latest one -- following the Shirley Sherrod firing and Robert Gibbs’ the-House-is-in-play comment. All of these distractions turned into multi-day stories, knocking Democrats off message.
10. J.D. Hayworth challenges McCain (Feb. 15, 2010): Had McCain not received a legitimate primary challenge from Hayworth, we might have seen more bipartisanship in the Senate -- if not from McCain then from his friend Lindsey Graham.
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It’s Just A Matter of Time:
The great American writer Walter Lippman once wrote, “The way in which the world is imagined determines at any particular moment what people will do.” Vision and imagination are important qualities for leaders. During the debate between Bush 41 and Clinton, candidate Clinton could articulate his vision for America. Bush 41 could not and he would look at his watch (wanting time to run out) and commented about that “vision thing”.
It was apparent that conservative Bush 43 could not imagine or have a vision of the future. The same could be said for McCain in his run for the Presidency. McCain just wanted the job. He could not imagine the problems we are facing and had no idea of how to solve the economic and domestic problems of today. With regard to foreign policy, it was mostly bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.
Our President did see the domestic problems that needed to be addressed. He could imagine solutions to healthcare, clean energy, education reform, immigration, financial reform, and the list goes on. What he did not imagine was that the opposition party had no vision and was perfectly willing to let the country fail. For most Americans that notion is unimaginable.
Walter Lippman’s comment is correct. “The way in which the world is imagined determines at any particular moment what the people will do.” And herein lies the problem. Conservatives imagine a time long past. A time when white men were in control, minorities knew their place, a Studebaker was a fun car to drive, and watching a drive-in movie was how to spend a Saturday night.
Progressive imagine a different America. An America in which diseases like cancer can be cured. An America in which students can excel and surpass students from other countries. An America who lives up to the ideals of the Constitution and accepts people with different religious beliefs and different ethnic backgrounds.
It will take time, but the Progressives will win this struggle.
Footnote: While thanking Mark, Domenico, and Ali, I would like to thank Tyler for his hard work. When the “Durdges” come to play in our mud pit, Tyler is one busy dude taking down flags and restoring perfectly good posts. Thus far, Tyler, you are earning high marks for being fair, and that’s all we should expect.
Greetings Fellow Travelers:
It's Friday, we have important things to do, but may I ask a moment of your time.
I don't scare easily, but as each day passes, I feel a terrible sense of foreboding tightening its grip on me. I wonder if we have experienced some sort of memory lapse, some form of amnesia, a deadly forgetfulness.
Not even two years have passed since Henry Paulson told us the economic world would end in three days. Three days! We remain on the brink of that same disaster today. Not even ten years have passed since we mired ourselves in two "countries" called Iraq and Afghanistan. These "countries" decimate America, though not one of their soldiers has set foot on our shore. Less than a century has passed since the end of "the war to end all wars" - World War I.
Less than 40 years have passed since Roe vs. Wade triumphed over the American Taliban and gave women control of their bodies. Less than 40 years ago, 18-year-olds were given the right to vote, a very important right for me. I was drafted but could not vote. Not a half-century has passed since civil rights were extended to ALL Americans. Almost two centuries of American history passed before we ALL became equal under the law. Less than a century ago, women were given the right to vote.
Come this November, well, we just might not vote. We're dispirited. Obama just didn't give us the change he promised. He didn't fix the world overnight, and so we pout. And while we wallow in self-pity, the reactionary right, this teabag element that loves only itself, and their corporate masters work feverishly to destroy those hard-won rights.
The fight for our rights, for our freedom, for liberty, is never ending. That is the nature of mankind and it is the reason we are admonished to NEVER forget that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We face an enemy who believes the ends justify the means; an enemy who will stop at nothing - NOTHING - until they have reduced us to serfdom.
For one mere hour and with the tiniest bit of effort, we can defeat this juggernaut of evil. A right, a privilege, a duty, a weapon - YOUR VOTE. Use it, please.
HERE WE GO AGAIN
Second Gulf Well Blows Up:
Another Oil Well blows up in the Gulf. Here we go again. The preliminary report was that there were 13 people on board and they all have been accounted for. No deaths this time but we really need to do something about these wells. I am looking at this as a reminder of Deep Horizon and all the damage and deaths that arose from that disaster. If not already, I am sure an investigation will be called and the safety regulations will be re-examined once again. Maybe now we will do something.
As reported by MSNBC, NBC, ABC, Bloomberg, NYT, etc., etc. The Vermilion Oil Rig 360, owned by Mariner Energy — which was recently purchased by Apache Corp. — was producing about 58,800 gallons of oil and 900,000 cubic feet of gas per day.
As ThinkProgress noted, just yesterday (Wednesday) Mariner Energy said the Obama administration’s moratorium on offshore drilling is “trying to break us.” Mariner Energy also made a recent filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission saying its operations “may be impacted in the future by increased regulatory oversight, which may increase the cost of” Outer Continental Shelf wells “and delay drilling and production there from.”
The careless disregard for the safety of its employees over profit is readily apparent. Quoted in the same article are the following safety violations of the owners.
Government safety records indicate that Mariner Energy and Apache Corp. is desperately in need of regulation. The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management’s Outer Continental Shelf Civil/Criminal Penalties Program cited Mariner Energy for two violations just in the first six months of this year, and once more in 2007.
A summary of the fines assessed against Mariner Energy:
- Two violations in 2010, totaling $55,000.
- One violation in 2007, for $30,000.
Apache Energy has been cited for 22 violations since 1998, totaling over $1.74 million in fines, including a $435,000 fine this year for removing a key piece of equipment from a sump system, which then “could not automatically maintain oil at a level sufficient to prevent discharge into the Gulf of Mexico.” Do we see a pattern here? Deep Horizon basically pulled the same stunts with equipment
OK Republicans, explain to me one more time why we need fewer regulations instead of more. Do we need more people to die for it to sink in? The American people want more regulations on Financial Reform and Big Business not less.
Tax Cuts:
Tax Cuts to the rich do not translate into jobs.
Tax Cuts increase the deficit and do not pay for themselves
This is the old Regan Voodoo and trickle down economics that did not work for him or GW Bush. Their new agenda as seen here on FR posts last week and the previous weeks, MSNBC, WSJ, Bloomberg and others, includes these same tax cuts adding over $3 Trillion Dollars to the deficit over 10 years while the republicans continue to say they want to lower the deficit. In fact they give more of the pie to the top 2% over time.
Social Security:
Social Security demise is not around the corner as the right wing claims. Based on reports from Social Security and CBO, CBPP and others, SS is solvent until 2037 (over the next 25 years plus) at 100% of benefits.
Social Security is NOT funded by IOU’S from China or anybody else. They are funded by T-Bills which are backed by the US Government.
Based on Public Feedback only a very few Republicans now continue support (or will admit they support) for the Privatization of SS. Paul Ryan and one or two others are still making noise on this.
This does not mean that we ignore the long term short fall in benefits. We need to look at this and put together a plan that will keep SS at 100% for the next 75 years not just 25 plus. Also note that since SS was passed 75 years ago, they never bounced a check. The same cannot be said for Wall Street or the Big Banks that Americans just bailed out.
Medicare:
Based on the passing of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Medicare will be solvent until 2029. Of course that depends on the implementation of passed law. Look for the right wing to do everything in their power to stop this and HCR implementation and Wall Street Reform. Remember Boehner and McConnell yelling Repeal Baby Repeal. If they take over the House they will stop the implementation of these bills and in 2012 declare President Obama a failure just like they are doing now in stopping the Jobs Bill and the 9/11 First Responders bill and all the other bills they have tied up in the Senate including all the Presidential Appointees.
HCR and the Stimulus Bill:
The right wing is still claiming that the stimulus bill was a failure even though many economist both republican and democrat say the contrary. Here is how several outspoken republicans responded the ARRA. Copied from articles on ThinkProgress.
When the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act first passed last year, Gov. Haley Barbour (R-MI) was one of the Republican governors who grandstanded against accepting all of the money, and since then, he has continually criticized the Recovery Act and trashed its substantial effects. “A lot of this is just crazy,” he said. “I’m better off not to get it.”
Barbour was no more receptive to the $26 billion in additional state aid that was passed by Congress last month. “There is no justification for the federal government hijacking state budgets, but that is exactly what Congress has done,” Barbour said. But as it turns out, Barbour not only wants the money, he wants to save it, in order to make his budget look better next year:
Republican Gov. Haley Barbour and a bipartisan group of Mississippi lawmakers are considering saving, rather than spending, one of the two pots of federal stimulus money Congress recently approved. Doing so could make it easier for officials to craft a state budget during the 2011 election-year session when most lawmakers are either seeking another term or running for higher office, and when Barbour – a potential 2012 presidential candidate – is wrapping up his final year as governor.
Barbour is just the latest in a line of Republican governors — including Gov. Rick Perry (TX), Gov. Tim Pawlenty (MN), and Gov. Mitch Daniels (IN) — who criticize the stimulus while reaping its benefits and bragging about their fiscal stewardship of their respective states. How convenient selective memory is. Not one of them, especially Daniels, gave any credit to the ARRA and how it pulled them out of the ditch. Instead the all had fake checks (like the one you see on TV from Publisher’s Clearing House) printed up with their names on them. This is Hypocrisy at its finest. These people have NO shame at all.
Same hypocrisy on the HCR Bill. They claim it a failure even though it is not implemented yet. Nice trick but I am not buying it and you should not either. They spoke out against it, 22 States are suing the Fed’s. 19 or the 22 states are taking the money and 7 already have approval. The hypocrisy continues.
As the week comes to an end we continue to see the same agenda again and again from the right. Their mission (should you accept it – theme music please) is to stop every bill that has anything to do with creating jobs, providing much needed working capital to small businesses, tax cuts for small businesses, unemployment benefits, food stamps, health care to the 9/11 first responders and the list goes on. Just go to the WH Web Site and look at all the stalled bills. They will then in November and 2012 try to pin failure on the democrats and President Obama. They do this even though they claim to support many of these programs in their day to day rhetoric. This is not only being a hypocrite but it is also, to me, repugnant behavior from people who were elected by the people to work for them.
Here we go Again.
Recently my #1 son mentioned Jim Cramer. It made me reflect a bit on the origins of the Tea Party. How many remember that it was Cramer who actually got the ball rolling on this political phenomenon with a rant about how much he resented the idea that the BSDs of Wall Street would actually be held accountable for crashing the economy and that multimillionaires might see an end to paying HALF what the rest of us pay in taxes? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/03/jim_cramer_unhappy_with_radica.html
How many are really aware that this movement is led by established lobbyists and members of the GOP like Dick Armey http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-17-2010/exclusive---dick-armey-extended-interview-pt--1 and Grover Norquist? Do most people realize that the majority financing comes from people with deep pockets who see this as only one piece of a coordinated effort to turn the government into a tool for their personal enrichment? http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=1
So there you have it folks, the Tea Party. Standing up for the principle of government of the people, by the rich, for the rich. If you can’t afford bread you’re allowed to eat cake with your tea.
Ron and David Walker. Great posts to start the day! I agree.
Remember the Vision and VOTE for it!
Good Morning Ron, IR, David, Retired & John - once again you have spectacular posts up first thing in the morning!
I can't top em' so I just want to say Nice Work!
Let me add my 0.02 on the Tyler comment! The referee has been making some good calls lately! :0)
Saw a bumper sticker worth sharing:
'Friends DON'T let Friends VOTE Republican!
Happy 3 day weekend to all...
I also want to thank our monitors for a good job this week. Special thanks to Tyler in his efforts to keep this site civil and informative. Kudos to you guys. Remember this is a board for the exchange of ideas not to express your frustration and call people names.
Good posts today. I would like to second Ron's thanks to Tyler who is doing a great job.
Thanks for the reply yesterday Charles!
The Wisconsin Dells are so much FUN - it's not called the waterpark capital of the world for nothing! :0)
I still believe that Russ Feingold will be able to hold his Senate seat even though his Republican opponent is outspending him 4 - 1!
History has taught us that the one thing money can't buy... is common sense!
Well, the August Job's report is out, & the Doomsdayer's will be here with the usual Nonsense. Cherrypicking what makes things look good for the Silly arguments they'll be making, while discarding the Underlyers. Oh, My, unemployment wentup a tenth of a point, Census workers Job's are over.
Private employer's continue to ADD job's, albiet slower than needed.
Meanwhile, the Army Doctor(i think)& his Birther defense was dealt a blow by the Judge in his Trial. His defense was POTUS is'nt an American citizen & therefore could'nt send him off to Afghanistan. However, his Orders come from the Pentagon, Sec. Gates. OOPSY!
Labor Day weekend is upon us, Summer is Over & the fall election campaign will kickin "Stupid Style".
The GOP has a perception problem, among the many problems they have. America has NOT forgotten the Destruction brought upon US, by this bunch.
The LooneyTunes will continue to provide Comic relief to the masses, as we watch them Self Destruct.
Mr. President, appoint Elizabeth Warren & give the left the nudge thier waiting on.
8 Straight months of Job Growth!
Contend with that, naysayer's!
You Betcha!
US Navy, another fine one along with everyone else. I learn something everyday.
Happy Friday, enjoy the long weekend. Thanks to our hosts Mark, Domenico, Ali for providing us with a place to debate and topics to discuss. A special thank you to Tyler who is doing his best to be fair and keep this board the civil and respectful place it should be.
"It will take time, but the Progressives will win this struggle." Ron I wish I had your optimism, in my opinion the time for the Progressives to win has already passed, the last 10 years the United States has seen it's profitable infrastructure along with all of the related technology boxed up and sent out of the country, that's the same infrastructure and technology that provided the jobs for a prosperous middle class, Ron it's all gone and it ain't coming back. This was in no way an accident or just the natural course of things, it was a well planned and extremely successful effort by Corporate America, orchestrated through our corporate beholden government, tax incentives were given to corporations to move our livelihood offshore, that is as reprehensible an act against the well being of this nation as any I can imagine, this country has been destroyed from within, by the very government that was created to protect it. We are done as a great nation Ron most people just haven't realized it yet, and when they do this country is not going to be a fun place to be. Have a great weekend.
w.Bush:
I agree, things are going to get worse before they get better. The republicans are going to get another chance to redistribute what little we have (what they did not steal from us under the last administration) and give it to the top 2%. More deregulation where power, money and greed will be more important than workers safety,hence more Americans are going to die in the workplace, more crapy economics that will drain what little we have left in our 401K's, No HCR and No Financial refor. They will drag this country down to a new low, breaking their old record of mismanagement and fraud. This time we may not recover until the whole country goes down the toilet.
Let see how much they get done in the next 2 years that helps Middle America.
David Walker - great post - thank you
I'm inspired by your recap of some history and progressive thinking. I think I'll refrain from any more news and/or blather for the rest of this wonderful weekend - and stay on this high you've provided!
Please come back more often!
During his address to the nation regarding the Gulf spill, Obama ended with his green future vision.
I'm sure it was inspirational for all the liberals - chorus of Yes we can(s). Conservatives went huh? - this guy wants us to go broke taking some place he doesn't even know where and he doesn't even know which road to take? Independents sat back and said, we'll see.
What they saw was inept handling of the spill, wanton waste of good jobs and the creation of green jobs at a cost to us of over $10 million per job.
Obama had a vision about a world without nuclear weapons, yet sits back and the lets the worst country secure the path to the bomb that will do nothing except lead to nuclear proliferation as others seek to protect themselves from the new menace.
These are just two examples. It applies across the board. It seems everything is almost a distraction from his dreams and visions.
Obama is great at visions and dreams. He is not good at doing the tough stuff - working to solve problems.
bob, you've brilliantly stated the Conservative vision--
No we can't!
Totally off topic... but VERY news worthy!
Anita, Birmingham AL is okay & says HI to all her favorite progressives!
WHEW....
David Walker.....
I have been a regular here for the last 3 to 4 years. I don't often post but I do read almost every day. Since the new forum has begun I post even less than before and in the last several weeks the out and out hate, lies, misinformation, vitriol and trench warfare...not to mention the new game...."see what we can get by Tyler", has me considering leaving my favorite place for politics.
Sorry to ramble...I just want to tell David Walker that your post has very accurately articulated a lot of what I've been feeling lately. If anything, I'm even more worried or scared than what you describe. I'm pretty much sick of the whole game.
As for "Tyler" and the need for his existence....I appreciate his efforts, but must say, to this point I am not impressed with his results. I spent the time yesterday to read several hundred posts to one article where Tyler had his handiwork all over the place. A couple were kicked off for a day but still appeared for hours and many articles later. One was banned for a week. Some posts were restored. Some weren't that should have been. IMHO, this place is quickly degrading to pre-school level and seems to have been taken over by the lunatic fringe.
Mark....thank you for the great articles this week. Hope you have a great Holiday.
I can't name all of you but the sentiment is still extended.....Feisty, Anita (where the hell did you go?), Ron, IR, the vets, Ricky, Jody, Amy, Pat, DesMoines, Houston, Steeler, GB, June, etc.....Please have a safe and wonderful Holiday. Thank you for all you do here. You are the only reason I'm still here.
Thanks Chris & it's good to see you out & about!
I think I can speak for all of us when I say that it's easy to succumb to hate & rage that fills these pages from the right on a daily basis... but then I have to remind myself that's who they are & what they do... and I'm not going to give them an inch towards taking this country 'back'wards...
John,
No, I said the obvious. Obama can't - solve problems.
About conservative visions, we want a smaller, more responsible government, more effective government that allows for freedom of the individual and family, not Obama's vision of a massive bureaucracy that controls and has power over everything.
According to polls and what is happening - it actually appears WE CAN.
Ok, we get the republican talking points. Now show us the proof please. I want to know;
What is the Republican Agenda for reducing the deficit? Right now the only agenda you seem to have is the same Voodoo economics of Ronald Regan and GW Bush. They did not work them and will not work now. In fact they accounted for the economic collapse that our President is trying to get us out of.
What is you agenda for getting us out of Afghanistan?How are you going to create jobs? When Bush left office we were loosing 700,000 jobs per month. How do you proposed to turn that around?
Just show us the proof as to why we should vote republican and go backwards instead of forward. Change my mind
Agreed with USN, bob. Please tell us what the government should stop doing.
And btw, "stop doing" sounds a lot like "no we can't."
Thank you Feisty! I was really worried about Anita - it was way too long to not hear from her.
Chris, Dorr, MI. Always good to see you here. This is the crazy and silly season of politics and unfortunately, too many think that name calling and hateful comments is acceptable. Thank you for your kind words--we like to think we make a difference especially to those who read but do not always write. Have a great weekend!
As for the collapsed posts, possibly you aren't aware of the flag system. The ! point off to the lower right corner of a comment allows for the "community" to flag a comment for various reasons, just click on the !. Unfortunately, Tyler's job has become more difficult because some posters play games--they disagree and flag even if the comment breaks no rules. If 5 people flag it, it collapses. You may not have noticed but some who have been collapsed appeal to Tyler and he restores the comment.
Ron, vision is a funny thing. Sometimes it seeks us out in the most ordinary ways. Events that alter history often turn on personal moments to which we don't give a second thought.
A friend, Daniel Russell, noted that each of us is expected to give "reasonable service" to God and our fellow man during our lifetime, but sometimes we are called to higher tasks, thrust into a situation that will cause one to act either as a hero or as a coward.
Consider Rosa Parks. As Russell notes, "Rosa Parks was tired after working two jobs, and sitting in the back of the bus as mandated. A white man had nowhere to sit and wanted her to give up a seat that was rightfully hers by the law, even though that law was abhorrent! She refused out of just being exhausted and knowing that the law was supposed to be on her side. It was also not lawful for whites to ride on the back of the bus in those days."
With that simple act, a vision was born and history turned on its axis.
Consider Martin Luther King. Russell explains, "The last thing he wanted to do was lead the Civil Rights Movement. It was agreed upon by his peers that he would speak on the bus boycott because of his ability for eloquent speaking! He was thrust into greatness."
King carried a vision forward in faith.
Consider Mohandas Gandhi. "Gandhi only felt super hatred for having to carry a pass around in South Africa and refused to show it one day. A simple personal matter as far as he was concerned. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED THERE!"
And another vision catches fire in the hearts of a people.
These heroes of history weren't seeking power or acclaim. They were thrust into greatness. A man or woman cannot start a vision of their own accord. You can't "brand" yourself into becoming a visionary with corporate financial backing and a briefcase full of shtick speeches. A vision doesn't include rallying people around the words "no," "not," "never," "go back." A vision, by definition, looks forward. Looking back, by definition, is a memory.
So, my question is, given these examples of visionaries, and knowing their influence on American and world history...which conservative at this moment in time can claim the mantle of "visionary?" And how is "taking America back"...to a simpler time, a more black-and-white" time...any different than religious extremists who want to take Islam back to a 13th century Caliphate?
Conservatives, who is your visionary, and what is your vision?
CHRIS;
Very well said. You really should post more since your comments are full of reason and well thought.
This place does resemble a street fight sometimes, and that is too bad. It is supposed to be a place where both sides get to share ideas. Too often is degrades to personal name calling, no ideas, just more of the same rhetoric we hear day in and day out with little to no facts the prove them one way or another.
There is no doubt that certain people are trying to scam the system. When you do not have any ideas or your hate and fear cloud their judgement they then try to censure the ideas that they disagree with.
There are those that say things here they would never say to your face because they can hide behind their computer screens. These are cowards and bullies and try to intimidate people. We igMore them here.
In any event, thank for you great post. Maybe as more people like you express their frustrations things wil get better. Keep reading and pop in every now and then.
Gail: Wow! What an outstanding post!!! Simply outstanding.
Good morning to you all and it's good to see the forces of good are out this morning and spreading the truth. It's a pity the other side can't/won't see it. But they are all victims and practitioners of THE BIG LIE. They just keep shouting it over and over again until they believe it themselves.
I have asked repeatedly for answers to very simple questions. What unconstitutional act has the current administration committed? What would you do differently? What is your solution to the economic problems we face (other than giving more money to those who have by taking it away from those who don't)? What would you do to fix health care?
They never have an answer. All they have are the wrong-wing talking points they have been fed by faux news and hate radio.
It's like the attorney in the Prop 8 appeal told FTN a few weeks back. When he puts the homophobes on the witness stand and ask them about their studies and their statistics their arguments melt like snow in July. His quote, "They are just making this stuff up!"
And it's true. They are just making this stuff up.
I posted earlier this week that I believe the middle, the progressives and the rational wing of the american electorate will prevail this Fall. November will see a few turnovers, we'll see the GOP pick up a couple of seats, but it will NOT be the wholesale "take over" being predicted by the wrong-wing nuts and the MSM. ("Let's check with Sarah and see if she has a tweet about the big win in November")
If we do our duty, if we vote, you will see that we will hold the line and set the stage for an historic victory in 2012. WE have the right man in the office and I have faith we'll will succeed. We still outnumber the wrong-wing nuts and it's good to remember Napoleon's axiom: "God favors the big battalions."
So keep up the good work folks. I learn something new and important every day by reading this blog. You are all so much smarter and better informed than I am. And I enjoy seeing there are smart people out there who feel the same way I do. (remember I live in Oklahoma the reddest red state of them all, 70% for McCain/Palin) Maybe, just maybe, if we keep shouting the truth long enough and hard enough some of the wing nuts will finally see the light. We did it in 2008, we can do it again in 2010 despite what the polls may indicate today and by golly we can do it again in 2012.
Let me leave you with one thought.
Sarah Palin is proof positive that there is a God and he has a wicked sense of humor. Sarah is like "grace", she is a gift from God to the forces of light. Embrace her, cherish her, because she will lead the GOP to defeat in 2012.
Run Sarah, Run
YAWN..........
Gail;
Great post, kudos.
w bush,
I agree with everything except the defeatist part about how we will never recover. We just need to look at moving on to more advanced ideas and manufacturing. Don't let the 1950's thinkers lead you to believe we can't move forward. Technology is the key! We are Americans and we can do anything when we put our minds to it.
Corporate America a.k.a. Big Business and their Bed Fellows the GOP have been steadily moving the manufacturing base out of country for years. This is their way of get around labor, safety and environmental regulations in this country. When you go to countries that aren't unionized and the people are oppressed and have no say in how their countries are run then corporations and the rich minority exploit them. We must work hard to remind everyone that the workers are the power not empty suits of Corporate America.
For all of the neocons and tea partiers the progressive movement is not going to die in November even if we liberals lose control of the House or Senate. You see we have been around a long time; do the names Teddy Roosevelt or William Jennings Bryant ring a bell? Don't worry we aren't going anywhere. We will be here to stick it to you for as long as it takes.
Gail is right, that vision is a funny thing. It is only something you can see if you want to. The conservatives can't see Obama's vision because, quite frankly, we don't want to. We know, in concept, what it represents, and many of it's aspects (expanded government control, more regulation, more welfare, etc) abhor us. Those of us interested in honest discourse, however, still give it at least a peak. And what we see is much what we expected, including a view of it's stark disparity with reality. The health care bill won't lower costs, it won't help the economy, and it won't solve any of the problems it was supposed to solve. It will just make them worse. The stimulus was mostly wasted, either on ineffective tax cuts or on Obama's political agenda, and what little was well-spent took far too long getting there. Getting out of Iraq was Bush's doing, Obama just kept the ball rolling (for which he deserves due credit). Likewise with Afghanistan. He's following Bush's and the Republican's plan, which is probably the best thing we can do right now. On immigration, Obama appears dedicated to non-enforcement, with only occasional shows of effort to change things, while more violence spreads into the US. On top of all that, Obama has broken just about every campaign promise he made, most especially the aspects of 'change' (i.e. no Washington insiders, transparent government, etc). Obama's vision for America is looking more and more like the opiate of his liberal masses, while he plays politics as usual.
On the flip side, liberals are unable to see the conservative vision that has seized much of the nation. They are unable to see it because, much like the conservatives, they don't want to. They hear a few concepts, such as limited government and restricted immigration, and they reject it outright. Meanwhile, the conservatives are following a collective vision (nebulous though it may be) of reduced government, reduced debt, just enforcement of the laws (which the liberal attack dogs call racism), and an America that learns to live within its means, re-develop our industrial base, and build an economy founded on solid rock, not the cloud-based economy we've developed. And, despite what you hear from the talking heads, most of us realize that this will mean raising taxes right alongside lowered spending.
We have a vision, and it's beautiful. We're just waiting for someone to step up and represent it. We don't need 'visionaries' to see it for us, we can see it ourselves, we just need someone ethical enough to bring it to Washington, and not bring Washington into it.
C. Smith: If your vision for America is right and honorable, someone will rise to carry it forward, and it will succeed. If it is not right and honorable, it will fail. So we shall see...
to Gail:
Glenn Beck is their visionary, and his visions are deranged.
C. Smith, if Joshua had listened to the naysayers in the scout party, the children of Israel would never crossed into the Promised land.
The right is so caught up in hate and lies, that not even the Almighty could change their minds. They will be America's downfall if we fail to pray, intercede, and push back against their vitrol rhetoric.
I saw a great bumper sticker this week that definitely applies to this November:
Politicians need to be changed for the same reason as baby diapers
LOL!!!
Obama talked about dreams of his father and his visions.
I prefer the dreams of our founding fathers and their vision for America.
lol.
Me too Bob...
C. Smith, your vision has been blurred by the right wing lies.
1) Bush did not get us out of Iraq, the SOFA agreement that was based on a timeline suggested by Candidate Obama and forced on Bush got us out. Remember that Bush was totally against timelines and fought them tooth and nail.
2) Bush's and the Republican's plan in Afghanistan?!? Are you kidding? The Bush plan was to ignore Afghanistan, don't even dare chase any of the Taliban into Pakistan and concentrate on finding nonexistent WMDs in Iraq.
3) Deportations of illegal immigrants are higher under the Obama administration and prosecution of employers of illegal immigrants is higher under the Obama administration.
4) Your economic arguments have been debunked by both conservative and liberal economists.
5) History has shown that the Republicans vision that you speak of has no basis in reality. The debt went up under the Republican's, government grew under republicans and, when they were unable to repeal laws or roll back regulations, funds to enforce the laws were withheld under Republicans. Look at the results with more miners dead or injured, more oil workers dead or injured, more consumers poisoned by food, lead based paints and tainted food and medicines from overseas.
Oh yeah, C. Smith, great vision there. I've seen what the Republican's vision is and it is not good. I want no part of it.
C.Smith - I LIKE your post. I think it succinctly describes what we are posting about on here. Here is the snippet that caught my eye:
The highlighted emphasis is MINE.
C.Smith, at LEAST you have articulated what your position is and why. Kudos to you for at least being honest with yourself and articulating what you REALLY feel.
What is even more poingiant is this snippet:
THIS snippet is the reason why I believe that the right-wing fringe will NOT prevail in the midterms and why President Obama will have a 2nd term. I have challenged MANY of the right-wing fringe to tell me WHO I should be getting the proposed Conservative agenda from so I can evaluate it.
As of right now, there is NO ONE that can articulate your message. The current GOP leadership is inept, in my opinion. The Tea Party People are more fringe than not, and their ideas are abhorrent to both left-wing and right-wing alike.
I am glad that you posted this today, C. Smith. I see you as a more moderate conservative, and frankly, you have no voice in the current GOP. I am hoping that you can find that 'person' that will deliver the conservative agenda, but you will first have to get rid of all of the current GOP who are doing NOTHING for you right now.
Until you do, I think that your words will pretty much sum up MY feelings about the Conservative vision being pushed right now:
Absolutely right. Give me a NEW conservative vision that I can look at and see the benefits of and MAYBE you can change my mind. Until then, I am 100% for the Obama Agenda.
Thanks again for your post, C. Smith.
I realize that this is a liberal site- and im an independant that leans to the right, but i wont get behind either party- i vote based on who closest resembles what im looking for and personally- i feel both parties have moved further from the center. That being said, I wont be voting Democrat come Nov.
I was on board after President Bush with President Obama's promise for change. I was also on board for President Obama's promise to govern from the middle. From my standpoint, he is nowhere near the middle. If this is the middle, then i want him to govern from the Right. I understand the need for the stimulus - i understand the HCR, in theory. I dont understand what i view as the President's anti-business mentality. I don't understand the President's love of lawyers and Unions, and i Don't understand the president - who being a liberal should be for tolerance and sensitivity - not coming forward and saying that the community center would broker more support and show goodwill to be moved to a different location - regardless of their right to build there.
I know many people here (i read the forums here regularly) dont view the community center as an issue - I do. I'm from New York - i had family die. And it sickens me - to watch our president not show the Empathy he has sought from everyone else in this scenario. I know many here may not view the President as Anti-Business - again - I do. To me it seems that the President only wants the vision of the American Dream - because if you acheive it - you are demonized, unless of course your an Actor or musician - then for some reason it's OK to make millions upon millions of dollars.
While i realize that the Republicans are politicizing an seizing on the moment. Ive come to the conclusion that both sides are corrupt through and through. The least i can do is try to make it so neither side can have a super majority therefore not allowing either side's fringe to ram through their version of what is good and right.
You may disagree with me, and that is your right. But i do not like how the President has been governing. I do not like what and how the democrats have been governing. And i am GREATLY angered by our President not coming to the defense of the feelings of New Yorkers. Just because you have the right to do something, doesnt make it right. And if our president cant stand behind that, i cant stand behind him.
Just my thoughts.
As a student of history (albeit an amateur) I have noticed a common thread in the progression of human civilization that boils down to this:
Conservatives always win the battles. - Liberals always win the war.
The desire for traditionalism has, for centuries, been the dominant force in all societies. Even so called liberalisms like State Socialism eventually degraded into ultra conservative edifices. But in the end, against all efforts to turn back the hands of time, change inevitably comes, bring more freedoms to more people. First it was non rich whites, then women, then blacks and other non-Caucasians, then Jews, then homosexuals, then Muslims...
It is just they way history moves; one step back, two steps forward.
The Greek riots were just a precursor of concern over the massive debt that Obama has built up, in his attempt to "remake" America in the image of European socialism.
The biggest problem for the Democrats up for election this year is Obama's "tax & spend" agenda, which virtually all Democrats in Congress supported.
Ron Indiana
Your "vision" that big government can solve all of our problems has been tried repeatedly throughout history, and has failed every time. The problem with your "vision" is that goes completely against human nature. Who would want to work hard if they can live just as well by taking life easy and letting "someone else" work hard to support them? That's the essential difference between those who support free enterprise and those who support big government. Competition leads to innovation and strong economic growth, while strong government control leads to stagnation in the name of "fairness" - another name for taking assets from those that earned them and giving them to those that didn't.
I do agree with you regarding Tyler - He has a tough job keeping people in line, and he seems to be very fair minded. The work he does in VERY COMMENDABLE.
Labor Day is a United States federal holiday observed on the first Monday in September (September 6 in 2010).
The first Labor Day in the United States was celebrated on September 5, 1882 in New York City.[1] In the aftermath of the deaths of a number of workers at the hands of the U.S. military and U.S. Marshals during the 1894 Pullman Strike, President Grover Cleveland put reconciliation with Labor as a top political priority. Fearing further conflict, legislation making Labor Day a national holiday was rushed through Congress unanimously and signed into law a mere six days after the end of the strike.[2] Cleveland was also concerned that aligning an American labor holiday with existing international May Day celebrations would stir up negative emotions linked to the Haymarket Affair.[3] All 50 U.S. states have made Labor Day a state holiday.
The Pullman Strike of 1894 was the first national strike in United States history. Before coming to an end, it involved over 150,000 persons and twenty-seven states and territories and would paralyze the nations railway system. The entire rail labor force of the nation would walk away from their jobs. In supporting the capital side of this strike President Cleveland for the first time in the Nation's history would send in federal troops, who would fire on and kill United States Citizens, against the wishes of the states. The federal courts of the nation would outlaw striking by the passing of the Omnibus indictment. This blow to unionized labor would not be struck down until the passing of the Wagner act in 1935. This all began in the little town of Pullman, Illinois, just south of Chicago.
Pullman Palace Car Company was famed for its sleeper and luxury railcars that it manufactured. One of these manufacturing locations was in Pullman, Illinois. George M. Pullman founded the town of Pullman as a place where his workers could live. This town was conceived and designed on the premise of being a model town for his workers, with every aspect complete including parks and a library. The problem arose when after the panic of 1893 the workers of Pullman received several wage cuts that on the average added up to twenty-five percent. These cuts were bad in themselves, but when coupled with Pullman's actions of not lowering the rents for his company owned homes in Pullman, the labor began to unite. From the outside, Pullman appeared to be a model town, and guided tours were given to impress outsiders. The town however was not model; the homes on the outskirts of town were shabbily built -- some without any kind of plumbing. The rent for these houses was also about twenty-five percent higher than normal for the area. In addition, in order to work for Pullman, one had to live in his houses. The workers formed a committee and on May 7 went to Pullman to ask to have the rent lowered. On May 7 and 9, they were flatly refused. Three of the committee members were then terminated. This caused the workers to declare that they were going to strike, and on May 10, 1894 they walked off of their jobs. Then on May 11, 1894 the Pullman Plant closed.
At this time in the Chicago vicinity, there were 6,000 federal and state troops, 3,100 police, and 5,000 deputy marshals. However, all this manpower could not prevent the violence from peaking when on July 7, national guardsmen after being assaulted, fired into the crowd killing at least four (possibly up to thirty) and wounding at least twenty. The killing continued when two more people were killed by troops in Spring Valley, Illinois.
_________________________________________________________
So as we can see Labor Day is not all about Mom, Apple Pie, Football and Chevrolet. It actually has its roots in a rather dark chapter of our economic history. It also shows that the present economic circumstances are not something exclusive to our time. It also points out one of the fatal flaws in many of the economic arguments we are hearing now. The fatal flaw is the argument that Capital begats Labor. In fact quite the reverse is true. Labor begats Capital. Without Labor there is no Capital. When you have a healthy balance between Labor and Capital you have a stable society and a vibrant Middle Class. We can then use this stability to address various social ills and programs perceived within our society. But balance must first be achieved.
This period in our economic past moved through several conflicts and cumulated in T. Roosevelt’s Square Deal. Thus balance was achieved and we moved into a prosperous period. It was slowly eroded away by forgetting the basic principal of balance and resulted in the Great Depression. F. Roosevelt moved us back to balance with his New Deal and we again moved back toward a prosperous society and a growing Middle class and so we were able to address and deal with our social ills and programs.
For the last thirty years we have pursued policies that have eroded that all important balance. The conflict has expanded to many of our most cherished and worthwhile social programs and has resulted in a stagnant and shrinking Middle class. If we set down at the table and take the necessary steps to restore this basic economic balance I think many folks would be quite amazed at how far it would go to restoring the stability that our society needs in order to address the social programs and move our great country forward into a bright and prosperous future for all present and future generations.
I hope everybody has a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend. Since at this point Earl has pretty much passed my part of the country I hope all you’ll folks up around Long Island and parts North have got all your hatches battened down. You’ll stay safe out there.
Theodore Roosevelt
AT THE STATE FAIR
SYRACUSE, NEW YORK
SEPTEMBER 7, 1903
We must possess the qualities which make us do our
duty in our homes and among our neighbors, and in
addition we must possess the qualities which are
indispensable to the make-up of every great and
masterful nation the qualities of courage and
hardihood, of individual initiative and yet of power
to combine for a common end, and above all, the
resolute determination to permit no man and no set
of men to sunder us one from the other by lines of
caste or creed or section. We must act upon the
motto of all for each and each for all. There must
be ever present in our minds the fundamental truth
that in a republic such as ours the only safety is
to stand neither for nor against any man because he
is rich or because he is poor, because he is engaged
in one occupation or another, because he works with
his brains or because he works with his hands. We
must treat each man on his worth and merits as a
man. We must see that each is given a square
deal, because he is entitled to no more and should
receive no less. Finally we must keep ever in mind
Labor Day is this weekend. There will be the usual end of summer picnics, family gatherings, enjoying an extra day off. There will be others who will be working: fire, police, doctors, nurses, water and electric employees, those at 24/7 companies that never shut down. It is a nice holiday because there is no gift buying, no national celebrations, no need to do anything except enjoy the day however we choose.
Since Ronald Reagan was elected president, republicans have demonized unions. Labor Day is a good day to reflect on what unions have provided for all American workers today. Younger generations and those who think of unions as interfering with capitalism should study the history. It was unions that gave us eight-hour work days, five-day weeks, overtime pay for hourly workers, safe working conditions, paid sick days, paid vacation days, paid holidays, no child labor in sweat shops or underground mines or grain bins, health insurance, a living wage. It was unions that fought for and gave us all these things. It was unions that gave employees rights. It was unions that gave employees a voice.
Without unions, none of us would likely have those benefits because every company has one interest--bottom line profits. People banded together in protest of employers who abused and regarded workers as disposable commodities; if one died or was disabled, another could easily be found. In another century, workers like you and me said ENOUGH, employers are not our masters, WE make employers successful and profitable. People risked their lives and many died to to stand up to those employers who ruled them by banding together in a union of purpose.
Unions are not perfect, have flaws, need to rethink policies just as every business does but they have given every worker who does not belong to one a voice with their employer. Nonunion workers receive many of the same benefits as union workers for one reason: employers must compete for quality workers in the job market. It is easy to fall victim to the anti-union rhetoric but one would be wise to read the history and reflect on why they exist.
Great post to end the week. Everbody have a safe Labor Day.
Interesting the IR quotes Theodore Roosevelt, a real Republican who is anathema to the corporatists and their Tea Party dupes who have taken over the modern Republican Party. (Glenn Beck attacked Teddy Roosevelt at his rally). TR's Republican Party has no relationship whatsoever to the party of the same name today. The only thing they have in common is the label. It's like the relationship between a real Rolodex watch and the counterfeit watches bearing the same name sold on street corners by shady characters.
Excellent post, I.R. Great way to end the week--history helps us understand why we should not repeat the errors of our past. Everytime we do, we pay the price--30 years undoing the lessons learned and 2008's economic collapse is proof.
Great Post IR: And excellent history lesson. You make us proud.
Great posts. I hope everyone takes a moment during this holiday weekend to reflect on the many positive contributions unions have made. Those who want to demonize them can resume next week.
Jody, Iowa
Younger generations and those who think of unions as interfering with capitalism should study the history. It was unions that gave us eight-hour work days, five-day weeks, overtime pay for hourly workers, safe working conditions, paid sick days, paid vacation days, paid holidays, no child labor in sweat shops or underground mines or grain bins, health insurance, a living wage. It was unions that fought for and gave us all these things. It was unions that gave employees rights. It was unions that gave employees a voice.
Jody since steve, farley, Joanna feel that labor unions are a thing of the past, then they should made to work on monday, if they take the day off and celibrate labor day, they are being hypricits. plain and simple. since they feel alot of problems with america have to do with unions then protest labor day. they should make there voice heard.
steve, Joannasmith1, and farley, go to work monday. but i know you will not, because after all its a paid day off!!!! thanks to unions.
Excellent post this morning Independent RA! The middle class would not exist or survive without Union Labor. Make no mistake about it, when Union Labor middle class does well so does the rest of the economy. Those 1950's that the neocon's are always spouting the return to, well the 40's, 50's, & 60's were filled with Union Labor jobs and we were a very economically prosperous country because the middle class had money to spend and we did indeed spend it. Most of us also like the perks that come with that pay - holiday pay, vacation pay, sick pay, 40 hour work week, overtime, and now FMLA. God Help the American worker if we ever reverse those standards!
Jeff..
I work Everyday, because i Choose too.. not because i have too.........
Since we are all heading out to parts unknown for a long holiday week end I’m going to sign on out of here a little early today and head on down to the Dew Drop Inn and make sure all is in order
Because even the Poll Dancers deserve a break on Labor Day I have taken the liberty of having a little Carmen Miranda added to the Juke box in the hope that the Truthteller from Ky. will stop by and demonstrate that Conga Line thing for us. Howed that go again there Ky T. Bumpa Bumpa Bump….. Ouch I just threw something out of whack
First my thanks to old T.R. for providing us with some words and a philosophy better than I ever could
Second thanks to all who have added a thought or two already and to those who haven’t made it yet but will I’m sure. I do purely appreciate your time even if you don’t agree with me. Just don’t trash me to bad when I’m not around to defend myself.
As always my thanks and appreciation to our hosts for their time, giving me a little place to stand, a subject to comment on, a forum to put it in, and their indulgence when I don’t quite get it right or get a little off subject. I purely do appreciate it. Hope you’ll have a fine weekend and good fun celebrations to go to among folks that you know and love. To my fellow participants keep well, keep safe, and keep the faith. We’ll make it. See you’ll next week
Finally Tyler thank you too for your time and patience while we all sort just exactly what’s going on and what the proper response to the necessity of your presence means to all of us. Looks like a tough job to me but here in the future once we get it sorted out maybe we can figure a way to give you a reason to giggle a little and some share of the happiness that we all share most every day just by being able to join together here.
Alright somebody throw a Quarter in that Music machine and get old Carmen fired off and let’s get this deal fired off. Howd that go again. Bumpa Bump Bumpa….. well shuckins I never could dance
Jeff, Jody, Union, and others:
Union labor efforts have indeed changed our society for the better, but now they threaten to (and in many areas have already) change our society for the worse. There is a certain 'fair relationship' that should exist between workers and employers. Before unions started reshaping society, wealthy employers abused millions of American workers with unfair, unsafe, and even cruel working conditions and demands, with little recompense. They did this because they had the power, and because they could. Now, unions have the power; and because they can, they are abusing both the workers they represent and the employers who once threatened them. Now, honest workers cannot work in certain professions in certain areas unless they pay dues to unions they have no interest in and receive no benefits from, and those who do not pay are intimidated, threatened, and forced out of their jobs. Meanwhile, the union officials continue to drive the balance of the relationship past the 'fair deal' and into one which gives them more power, often at the expense of employer and worker alike. Demands for more and more pay raises, to exorbitant levels, have forced employers to drop jobs, cut production, and close plants.
The Labor movement is the same as the feminist and civil-rights movements: they all did wonderful and incredible things in the past, often at great personal sacrifice, and in some areas there may still be work to do, but these organizations continue to push the line across the board, frequently driving the very injustices they once worked against, only in reverse. They have gained power and, in doing so, have fallen to the same corruption that drove their previous oppressors.
There may again come a day, God forbid, when unions are once again necessary to ensure justice for the American worker. Today, however, that is not the case in the vast majority of the areas where unions are still at work.
Great posts IR, Jody, Jeff and UBT! I enjoyed them all.
I am not in a union, but I was in the past, and I sure do enjoy all of the prosperity and respect they have given us the workers of this Great Nation!
Happy Labor Day to all! (Yes even to the righties on this blog)
Steve-505729
Jeff..
I work Everyday, because i Choose too.. not because i have too.........
I never said that you choose to work, everbody has to work everyday,i said that since you think unions are bad and out dated, then work Monday. its labor day and you are against unions. its because unions that we have labor day. so instead of celebrating labor day. don't!!!!
Jeff,
Again . What part of i work everyday do you not understand.. it doesnt matter to me the day..
Next Monday is the two year anniversary of the day that GWB was forced to take federal govt control of Dem darlings Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in order to prevent their collapse. So what has the federal govt done with these two Dem darlings after 4.5 months under GWB and 19.5 months under Barry??
NOT MUCH:
Flushed $150 billion of taxpayer money bailouts down these two toilets so far, with estimates of the ultimate costs to taxpayers going from $400 billion to $1 trillion.
Held a “listening session” on fixing these financial disasters a couple of weeks ago.
Promised to do something to reform them “early next year”.
Folks, wasn’t this Admin the one that promised they could walk and chew gum at the same time?? Doing “something early next year” shouldn’t be an acceptable response to a two year old financial disaster of this magnitude.
Grade: Fail
(CBS) The steep falloff in housing sales -- which reached a 15-year low in July -- highlights the degree to which the government has been propping up the housing market, and the two biggest pillars of that support system -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are facing a crisis.
In Fla. this month, Fannie Mae auctioned off nearly 100 foreclosed properties. In Chicago, Freddie Mac was offering help to homeowners in distress, reports CBS News business correspondent Anthony Mason.
The two troubled mortgage giants seized by the government nearly two years ago now own or guarantee nearly 31 million home loans, 56 percent of all American mortgages, and they're bleeding billions in losses.
"Fixing this system is one of the most consequential and complicated economic policy problems we face as a country," said U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.
The Treasury kicked off the debate over how to fix Fannie and Freddie at a Washington Conference last week. The stakes are huge. Even now Fannie, Freddie and the Federal Housing Authority are propping up the housing market.
"More than nine out of every 10 mortgages originated today are filtered through one of those three institutions," said Mark Fleming, chief economist at CoreLogic.
The government has already pumped nearly $150 billion into both to keep them afloat. Some say taxpayers could end up with a $1 trillion bill.
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are going to incur the losses of our neighbors who default on their mortgages," said Shari Olefson, author of Foreclosure Nation.
Set up by Congress as private companies to expand home ownership, Frannie and Freddie buy up mortgages from lenders so those banks have money to lend again. But they're now holding $210 billion in bad loans.
And the government, which always unofficially backed Fannie and Freddie, is stuck with them.
"It goes to the very heart of the American dream," said Olefson. "It really goes to the very heart of what role should government play, if any, in housing."
The Treasury aims to come with a plan for Fannie and Freddie by January, but reforming them will be difficult while the housing market is still so fragile.
Yesterday, Larry Sabato, the Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, issued his predictions for the upcoming midterm elections. Like Democrat Charlie Cook, and Republican Stu Rothenberg, he's regarded as one of the top political handicappers in the nation.
Mr. Sabato expects a net gain of 47 House seats for Republicans (39 needed for GOP majority), and a gain of 8-9 in the Senate (10 needed for majority) in November.
Mr. Sabato went to great pains to dash a popular notion that the mood of the electorate is primarily anti-incumbent...Sabato believes it to clearly be anti-Democratic.
My favorite reaction in the left-wing media to the dawning realization of what lies ahead came from Chris Matthews on yesterday's installment of "Hardball"...
"I'm seeing enough to think there's something going on..."
Hmmm...
Really, Chris...?
Ya think?
Your point is, Joe? You seem to have an unnatural obsession with FM and FM. Why is that? And don't give us any of that BS about them being the cause of the housing market crash, it was the originate and sell subprime lenders and the resulting CDS market that did that. FM and FM participated in that but actually came to the game late. They were gamed by the people who actually caused the problems.
Gee, Matt, could my concerns possibly be that Fannie and Freddie are going to be the BIGGEST taxpayer bailout ever AND, it is very unlikely the taxpayers will get back much more than pennies on a dollar AND, NOBODY in Washington is doing ANYTHING about it except kicking the can down the road??
Naaaahhhh, that would just be common sense.
If those are your concerns, Joe, then you have misplaced your concerns. Any fix is not going to happen over night and the Treasury Department and this administration is actively working to figure out how to fix the problem . . . along with many, many, many other problems created by the Republicans over the last 30+ years. In addition to that, they have to deal with a recalcitrant Republican opposition determined to block anything that will actually help the economy because they, the Republicans, might lose votes if things are actually improving.
To be the biggest taxpayer bailout ever, they are going to have pretty stiff competition from the S&L bailout of the 80s - another Republican, deregulation fiasco, by the way. And who says it's going to be a 'bailout' or that if it is that the 'bailout' won't turn out like the TARP and auto industry bailouts where the taxpayer is actually getting back more than they put in?
So, Joe, one can only conclude that your 'common sense' is neither 'common' nor does it make any 'sense'.
Next, please.
Matthew, first you say FM & FM "came to the game late" and then you say "They were gamed..." So, which was it? Did they play or get played?
If we're to believe that whole debacle happened because they got "gamed", then we have an even larger, scarier problem. If the two groups that control over half the housing market are so naive, ignorant that they could get "gamed" in that magnitude then there truly does need to be some major oversight and overhaul!
FM & FM are a significant part of the economic problem, Matthew. If they aren't, why do we have to keep throwing billions at them? And, when is the Administration and/or the Congress going to begin a full-scale investigation of apparently what is a grossly mismanaged entity. We've already gotten a couple of peeks at whose palms have been greased. If we ever know the whole story, it will probably "fry the hair on the dog"!
Dirt, all it takes is a little bit of reading to find out what I am talking about. FM & FM were first gamed by the originate and sell subprime lenders. Once the CDS market was created to bet against the subprime derivative bonds, FM & FM blindly entered the subprime market. Yes, there was mis-management at FM & FM but you entirely missed the point of my post.
Joe comes on here regularly to spout the fallacious Republican talking point that FM & FM caused the housing market meltdown. My point was that, while they certainly did participate (as I also said in my previous post), they were not the primary cause.
Get it? Got it? I wonder . . .
Matt, you do a great ostrich imitation. Too bad all that sand you have your head in is cutting off the oxygen to your brain. You just keep believing your wishful thinking. Don't worry, be happy.
"Joe comes on here regularly to spout the fallacious Republican talking point that FM & FM caused the housing market meltdown"
Matt, see the lack of oxygen to your brain is making you hallucinate. I have never made such a statement and I challenge you to back up your statement about what you think I have said with documentation, or admit here on FR that what you said above is a lie.
Good luck.
LMAO@U!!!!
"To be the biggest taxpayer bailout ever, they are going to have pretty stiff competition from the S&L bailout of the 80s -"
Matt, the info below is from the NYT archives, so lefty liberals a required to believe it's the truth. If you inflate the 1989 dollars by 60% (3%/year), the 1989 cost of $124 billion goes to $198 billion in 2010 dollars. Fannie and Freddie are 75% of the way there already and Bloomberg News in a June 2010 story reported:
" The Congressional Budget Office calculated in August 2009 that the companies would need $389 billion in federal subsidies through 2019, based on assumptions about delinquency rates of loans in their securities pools."
Hell, even long time Fannie and Freddie patron saint, Barney Frank, recently stated both should be "abolished".
You just keep on believing in your wishful thinking make-believe world.
LOL!!!
From NYT archives:
In 1989, the nation faced a financial crisis caused by the collapse of hundreds of savings and loan associations, who had taken advantage of loosened regulations to invest aggressively in real estate and other ventures, many of which went sour. Their problem was the government's problem, too, since their deposits were guaranteed by the federal government.
Fearing both the size of the bill if the troubled institutions went under and the damage such a meltdown might cause to the economy at large, Congress and President George H.W. Bush in 1989 created the Resolution Trust Corporation to take over troubled thrifts, as the banks were known.
The mission of the corporation was to dispose of the assets as quickly as possible for maximum value. Its goal was to reduce taxpayer exposure.
Resolution Trust closed or reorganized 747 institutions holding assets of nearly $400 billion. It did so by seizing the assets of troubled savings and loans and then reselling them to bargain-seeking investors. At the peak in early 1990 there were 350 failed savings and loan institutions under the agency's control.
By 1995, the S.& L. crisis abated and the agency was folded into the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which Congress created during the Great Depression to regulate banks and protect the accounts of customers when they fail. The total cost to taxpayers was later estimated at $124 billion.
Actually Joe the inflation adjusted amount of the S&L bail out was $212B http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi , but you've left out an important point. Initially the S&L bail out was feared to be much larger but in time the value to tax payers was maximized and the final figure turned out to be much smaller than feared. The same information regarding our current financial crisis won't be available for years.
The other important point is that both of these crises were caused by imprudent deregulation of the financial industry. More evidence of the history of failure of the Conservative mantra of "all government is bad."
Well, Joe, you are correct, you have not brought up FM & FM, I was mistaken about that. However, to call it a lie would be to mischaracterize it as it was not intentional and you will get no apology from me.
What I will say is that wading through your vile, hate filled, childish posts since June of this year makes me feel like I need a shower. You are a sad, childish, pathetic and arrogant piece of work, Joe. I truly feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with you in person on a day to day basis. You really deserve worse treatment than you get from the other posters on this blog.
You pointing out that the S&L bailout cost taxpayers proves my point, the TARP and auto maker's bailouts are actually turning a profit and until the details of what the administration's FM & FM fix are known, your saying it will cost the taxpayers more than any other bailout in history is pure conjecture unsupported by any facts. But you are well known for supply conjecture without any supporting factual basis to support it.
So, Joe, in the words you directed at Navy in July . . . no, I'm better than that. You have yourself a real nice day there, young man.
"Well, Joe, you are correct, you have not brought up FM & FM, I was mistaken about that. However, to call it a lie would be to mischaracterize it as it was not intentional and you will get no apology from me."
So, by your own assertion, a statement made in good faith, that turns out to be false after the facts are known, but, was not intentional, is not a "lie"??
And, anyone calling it a lie is not deserving of an apology??
OK
I'm sure the Bush administration people that have been accused of "lying us into a war of choice in Iraq" will greatly appreciate your support and testimony that they were not "lying" and their accusers deserve "no apology".
"your saying it will cost the taxpayers more than any other bailout in history is pure conjecture unsupported by any facts."
It's not me saying that, it's the non-partisan CBO, whose Director was appointed by Pelosi and Reid, saying that.
Why no comment on long time Fannie and Freddie patron saint, Barney Frank's, recent statement that both these taxpayer bailout black-hole toilets should be "abolished"?? It was only about two weeks ago:
(Reuters) - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be abolished rather than reformed as part of the Obama administration's planned overhaul of the government's role in housing finance, Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services committee, said on Tuesday.
You just keep on believing in your wishful thinking make-believe world.
BTW, the reason you feel you need a shower is because I showed you that you are covered in lefty liberal BS.
John B, I'm not going to waste my time responding to you beyond this post saying I'm not going to waste my time.
"auto maker's bailouts are actually turning a profit"
How do you figure that??
GM paid back the loan portion of their bailout, with interest. The dirty little secret is that the loan was only 10% of the bailout they got. 90% of the bailout is still unpaid. Also, the interest being paid out of the 90% of bailout money still unpaid, means the "profit" to the taxpayers you claim is being paid with their own money. THAT'S NOT a "profit".
Chrysler has not paid back a penny.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but, this was not a bailout of the "auto makers". It was a bailout of the UAW and taxpayers are still on the hook for about 98% of it.
So much for your "profit" assertion. Just more lefty liberal BS.
BTW, if it's any comfort, I do agree with you that the TARP funds given to the evil Wall street banks have been paid back in full, with several billoin in "profit" to the taxpayers.
LOL!!!
"John B, I'm not going to waste my time responding to you beyond this post saying I'm not going to waste my time."
Aww, he took his ball and went home.
FR:
In other words, President Obama did the right thing for the country, but it doesn't matter because it cost him politically and gave the Republicans another bogus nontroversy to exploit for their own political gain. The people who want to vote the Repubs back into power to "punish" the Democrats for not miraculously fixing the mess the Republcans caused over 8 years are the same people who got duped twice into voting for Bush based on scare mongering and empty promises that tax cuts and deregulation would be good. People who vote based on short-sighted and ill-informed reasons really have no one to blame but themselves for the bad state of the economy.
Houston;
I hear ya. Looks like some new talking points are being published today.
I have a question(s) for the republicans.
Ok, we get the republican talking points. Now show us the proof please. I want to know;
What is the Republican Agenda for reducing the deficit? Right now the only agenda you seem to have is the same Voodoo economics of Ronald Regan and GW Bush. They did not work them and will not work now. In fact they accounted for the economic collapse that our President is trying to get us out of.
What is you agenda for getting us out of Afghanistan?
How are you going to create jobs? When Bush left office we were loosing 700,000 jobs per month. How do you proposed to turn that around?
Just show us the proof as to why we should vote republican and go backwards instead of forward. Change my mind
Well said, Houston.
Houston....
Why is the President of the United States firing any CEO of a PRIVATELY OWNED company again?
Isnt this the same kind of thing that Stalin, Hitler, Chavez and/or Castro does?
If this president doesnt want to be compared to these people a good starting point would be NOT DOING THE SAME THINGS THEY DO.
US Navy, I agree with your basic premise that the economic policies of the Reagan era are not the correct way to go. The Republicans seem to have no other plans except to continue them and even the plans they do put forward have been evaluated by economists as being the worst thing to do under the current economic conditions (Paul Ryan's plan comes to mind).
However, I have to respectfully disagree with the part of your post that says that supply side economics does not work. Here is why:
The conditions when Reagan took office actually did call for supply side economic policies. Where Reagan screwed up was that he took them too far and applied them for too long (note that both he and GHWB raised some taxes after an initial drop, remember "Read my lips . . ."?). It really got bad when GHWB decided to continue the very policies he called voodoo economics (despite his token tax raise).
The conditions that led to our current mess were not the same as those Reagan had to deal with. This means that different policies than Reagan used are appropriate in this situation. What most honest economists, both conservative and liberal, agree on is that Keynesian economic policies are called for and that we have not gone far enough. The stimulus should have been much larger, should have had fewer tax breaks, the tax breaks should have been more narrowly focused and more money should have been pumped into unemployment, food stamps and infrastructure projects.
The danger of any economic policy is the misuse and abuse of it. Apply it in the wrong situation or for too long and you will have problems. I have only recently changed my mind about supply side economics due to some recent reading. You are definitely correct in saying that supply side economics are not the right tool to use in our current situation.
Larry - I agree that the President of the United States should NOT have to fire a CEO of a PRIVATE company, but if you remember, the CEOs from the big three auto companies came to the GOVERNMENT for MONEY to help their bottom lines.
You didn't forget about that, did you? Don't you remember when the CEOs flew in on their PRIVATE JETS asking for BILLIONS from the Government? Larry, were you NOT outraged about that?
It seems to me that if the Government can manage to give BILLIONS of TAXPAYER money to a company to help the bottom line, then the head of that Government (the President) would have the power - no, the obligation - to make sure those Billions are being used wisely. If it means replacing the CEO, then so be it.
Nice try, Larry, but your narrative is more ideology than fact.
So the boards of GM and Chrysler BEG for money from the American taxpayer to keep from going under. A look at the situation reveals that they're seriously on the ropes, and hundreds of thousands more at a minimum will be unemployed at a moment when we're experiencing an economic crisis not seen since the Great Depression. Taxpayer money is invested in the companies to prevent that disaster.
Should the new major shareholder in the company, the American citizen, leave the same management in place that mismanaged the company and brought on the necessity for this investment? If Warren Buffet had taken over General Motors would you be whining because an incompetent senior management team lost their jobs? Is it smart to allow them to continue doing the same things that nearly put them out of business? Or would that just be standing up for the wealthy because being wealthy they're better?
Larry, Minot ND:
Because the federal government bought enough stock in GM that it was legal for him to do so. Looks like Obama fired the right guy, too.
No, it is NOT the same. Stalin simply confiscated property without reimbursing its owners, whom he jailed and sometimes executed. Hitler's approach was entirely different from Stalin's. Hitler entered into pacts with the major German corporations and supplied them with slave labor to keep the German war machine functioning. The Nazis didn't confiscate businesses unless the owners were Jews or opponents of the Nazi regime.
Your comparisons of Obama to monsters like Stalin and Hitler is not only disgusting; it's stupid and ignorant.
Mathew, Houston;
I agree that different solutions are required for different problems (environments). I was being too general onthe topic in that neither one, Regan or GW Bush helped Middle America with their economic programs at those times.
I have no problem with Supply Side Economics per se. none, and I agree that the stimulus should have been a lot bigger but the republicans stopped that and I also agree the tax cuts should have been targeted to those that would have provided the biggest bang for the buck not the 2% that did not need tax cuts and more money should have been pushed into the economy.
Everything you say is true.
We are on the same page.
BTW: Great post and thanks for the feedback.
First Read; Why not just say Top 10 jollifications from Tea Baggers and the GOP that have shaped the midterm season.
Perhaps, the President should appoint a ""Czar of Mirth" to address these nut jobs..
I voted Greece riots, Dow plunges 1,000 points before partially recovering (May 6, 2010). The uncertainty like all of the other folly and uncertainty for investors and business is not due to the Obama administration, or that European instability. Instead it has a lot to do with the very plush lifestyles of the rich, corporate, right -wing, gaints who have shipped jobs away and don't pay taxes just like the tax cheats in Greece didn't pay theirs.
Government safety records indicate that Mariner Energy and Apache Corp. are desperately in need of regulation Mariner Energy said the Obama administration’s moratorium on offshore drilling is “trying to break us.” Mariner Energy also made a recent filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission saying its operations “may be impacted in the future by increased regulatory oversight, which may increase the cost of” Outer Continental Shelf wells “and delay drilling and production there from.”
Umm, let’s see US has had oil slicks floating around from massive oil spills in the water, seas, e.coli, and salmonella because these cheats are anti-government regulations.
You'd think rather than destroy the USA as well as the planet thes corporatist would want jobs to give the economy
I disagree with the First Read thesis that mid-terms could be influenced by the Gulf oil spill, or riots in Greece, or Obama's stand on a non-controversy. Those might influence a national election, but not mid terms. At least from my perspective, mid term results are based on the individuals running in the races and their stand on issues directly facing voters.
I can only report on the situation in my state, in that the Republican candidate, Paul LePage, appears to be ahead because he has the support of an enthusiastic Tea Party base ( formerly known as the Evangelical vote, formerly known as the Archie Bunker vote, formerly known as the McCarthyite vote; same people, new brand. ) And, after eight years of a Democrat governor, voters typically like to give it to the other side. I think this is how Massachuttes ended up electing Scott Brown.
Libby Mitchell, however, has the advantage of possibly becoming the first female Maine governor, insuring fierce support from many Democratic women, and then there is her name recognition after years in government. A monkey wrench in the election is Elliot Cutler, who could appeal to both moderate Republicans and independent minded Democrats. I think it all comes down to how well the candidates come off in the televised debates, how well organized the bases are, and possibly, the weather on election day.
My point, however, is none of this is influencved by the economy in Greece, or the oil slick in the Gulf, or President Obama's popularity or not. I would like to ask, what do FR commenters think about mid terms in their states?
PS, I should have said we had a Democratic governor for eight years, not a Democrat governor, I hate that habit of dropping the endin. Just didn't catch it in time to make the fix!
Amy;
Nice post. I agree with you in that most elections happen at the local level. This is why it is so important that we get the message out. We are fighting against a very well oiled Republican Party. They do not answer questions in debates or at meetings unless they are screen. They run from reporters (Angle and Brewer). They think if they say nothing, we will not know who they really are. Right out of the Rove playbook. We see it here on this board as well. Talking points with no ideas other than to go back the the days of Regan and Bush Voodoo Economics that did not work and are the very reason why our economy is in the shape it is today.
Have a safe Labor Day weekend.
Grover Norquist said he never saw a Tax he wanted to pay if I'm not mistaken.
Everyone posts was very important to the issue we face today with the exception of Mixed bag and Joe in Albany.
Hey Joe,
The Treasury aims to come with a plan for Fannie and Freddie by January, but reforming them will be difficult while the housing market is still so fragile.
To end your consternation and obsession with Fannie and Freddie, there is a Congressman who will be introducing education on how not to be a victim of predatory loans.
Excellent points as usual, Amy. I haven't spoken to even one person who said he/she was deciding whether to keep Leonard Boswell or Chuck Grassley based on rioting in Greece. Not one to say that Boswell should be jettisoned due to an oil spill in the Gulf, though Chuck Grassley's "killing Grannie" comment is quite infamous here and probably a contributor to a closer race than he's faced in many years. That's right, in an election season that conventional wisdom says will be a Republican wave Conservative Republican Chuck Grassley is having to work to keep his normally safe seat. Why would that be? People I know tell me that it's because they don't trust him anymore, they've heard him say too many things they know to be untrue.
Why would that be? He's only following Republican strategy and espousing the same principles as his housemates on C Street. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/25/AR2009062504480.html
Hi Amy--Maine seems to be a very woman-friendly state! I have family who moved there this summer & visited them--sure was beautiful.
I do agree that midterm elections are basically local but I do think that the economy is also on people's minds. Without getting into whether the recovery should be more robust or not, we are still in economic times and sometimes people just want to vote for change in the belief that it will bring better times.
Steeler Fan-380417, John B, Des Moines, IA and
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Thank you for your nice comments!
Here is a snippet from today's local paper, covering an exchange between LePage, the Republican and Cutler, the Independent, to give you an idea how it goes in Maine' elections (no mention of Greece or the oil spill, but yes, the economy and philosophy about government on the agenda):
"Cutler, a lawyer from Cape Elizabeth, said the state must find a way to lower electricity costs to help all businesses succeed. He said he would create an energy finance authority, negotiate with Canada to get hydroelectric power and move natural gas up the Kennebec, Androscoggin and Penobscot rivers.
LePage, Waterville's mayor and the general manager of the Marden's retail chain, said he would look for ways to lower energy costs for residents and commercial users. He criticized Cutler for suggesting the need for an energy finance authority.
"He's looking at growing government and I'm looking at shrinking it," LePage said. "Authorities are nothing but an arm of government."
Cutler said the authority would employ five people, at most, and would bring cheap capital to the state.
"I want to generate lower-cost electricity in this state, and I know how to do it," Cutler said. "Pulling the state out of the abyss we are falling into we've got to think beyond conventional thinking."
wwww
Boy you leftie libs are out in force today not that it makes any difference. Unions are not good; they tanked the auto industry, they rob millions of their membership to lobby for Dems; they've forced companies to go elsewhere for cheaper labor because of their high demands and low productivity; and no, GWB wasn't able to do anything with freddie and fannie because of the Dem Congress and Barney and Chris Dodd, "their healthy and well leave them alone" and of course they were the babies of Clinton; "Instead it has a lot to do with the very plush lifestyles of the rich, corporate, right -wing, gaints who have shipped jobs away and don't pay taxes just like the tax cheats in Greece didn't pay theirs."....uh...excuse me, the Greece riots were about the BROKE government taking back all the "ENTITLEMENTS" they had given the people because they were unsustainable.....and Beverly, I notice you're from Chicago so I wouldn't expect any more out of you as the atypical low-class chicago thug as demonstrated by our pres but I do want you to know that we "right-wing nut jobs" are alive and well and we'll meet up with you all in November. VOTE ALL DEMS OUT!!!!
Unions did not send the jobs overseas, business and people who wanted cheap goods did.
As for unemployment, social security and medicare--WE pay into those trust funds and plans, they are not entitlements except in the sense that we are entitled to receive what we pay into. A true entitlement is something given at no cost to the person--welfare is an entitlement; social security is not, it is a Trust Fund.
As to why we have social security and unemployment, read something about the Great Depression to understand why they were implemented and the role they play in poverty reduction for seniors, and how unemployment was implemented to prevent wide spread dispare, loss of homes, loss of life and extreme hardship--it kept the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression.
Jody;
Right on. The republicans never let the facts get in the way of their misinformation (lies and half-truths). If they did they would have nothing to talk about.
Jody
Oh brother....don't you just hate it when you have to school other folks on BASIC HISTORY? The comments on this and other sites is so telling...the lack of knowledge and the lack of curiosity about our own history. Geesh, you don't even have to go to a library anymore...and yet there's still no effort made. Sad...
I find the very term "entitlement programs" to be a misuse of language anyway. Before Social Security over HALF of Americans worked their entire lives only to live out their retirement years in poverty. More than 1 in 5 were poverty-stricken in the late 1950s until the Great Society programs cut that by half. Contrary to Conservative myth the majority of "entitlement program" recipients don't live their lives on the government dole, they take a hand up when they need it most, then resume lives as productive members of society.
I wonder why the elites of society feel entitled to get more out of EVERY round of tax breaks than their fair share. I wonder why people like the Koch brothers feel entitled to ask the government for money at the same time they fund efforts to take support and services away from working Americans. I wonder why every big business feels entitled to demand "economic development" money before they make investments which by themselves would bring them more money through increased profit.
Who exactly is it that's feeling "entitled" here?
Jody, US, Vermont:
I may have missed it, but where did anyone say anything about social security and the like? I know the Dems love to accuse the Reps of trying to kill these programs, but they actually haven't yet, and haven't even proposed it (with the exception of a couple of nuts who got no support).
The closest we've gotten was proposed reforms of SS, because the 'trust fund' is no longer generating more interest than it pays out, and because, incidentally, that 'interest' and the 'investments' it's put our money in, are payed by the government, meaning that the government will still have to increase spending to continue to support it as it pays out the bonds SS has been invested in. This is starting this year, which is why the Reps are saying SS is in trouble now, instead of 2037, when the 'trust fund' will run dry.
And, incidentally, it's not really a trust fund, it's more like insurance. For example, if you never use it, you (or your children) don't get any money back. Personally, I'd rather take care of those things myself, but then I actually know how to save money.
C. Smith - Actually, Social Security is a SOCIAL CONTRACT between Americans and their Government. As with any contract, the terms need to be honoured. The terms - you put in 12% of eery paycheque and the government will pay you back after you retire.
Simple.
There are NO TERMS in that social contract that say that you can do whatever you want with that money.
Now, if we AMEND that social contract to let people like yourself opt out, then that is another story. Now the main reason for Social Security was so there was SOME money for people when they retired from working, and that no worker has NOTHING after working hard for a lifetime.
I am sure this will continue to be an issue for many years to come, C. Smith.
AnnieRich
Boy you leftie libs are out in force today not that it makes any difference. Unions are not good; they tanked the auto industry, they rob millions of their membership to lobby for Dems; they've forced companies to go elsewhere for cheaper labor because of their high demands and low productivity; and no, GWB wasn't able to do anything with freddie and fannie because of the Dem Congress and Barney and Chris Dodd, "their healthy and well leave them alone" and of course they were the babies of Clinton; "Instead it has a lot to do with the very plush lifestyles of the rich, corporate, right -wing, gaints who have shipped jobs away and don't pay taxes just like the tax cheats in Greece didn't pay theirs."....uh...excuse me, the Greece riots were about the BROKE government taking back all the "ENTITLEMENTS" they had given the people because they were unsustainable.....and Beverly, I notice you're from Chicago so I wouldn't expect any more out of you as the atypical low-class chicago thug as demonstrated by our pres but I do want you to know that we "right-wing nut jobs" are alive and well and we'll meet up with you all in November. VOTE ALL DEMS OUT!!!!
In one breath, they say that the unions are bad for their members because they take money from members for political donations, in the next breath they say that President Obama is doing too many favors to the unions, which one is it????
Fannie and Freddie were in existence before 1990.
bush had the power to supervise closely and enforce all the laws and regulations against fannie and freddie, he failed to use that power.
I see that AnnieRich is willing and ready to donate money to contribute for the taxt cut for the top 2 percent.
Has your 401K balance gone up too?????
Eugene Robinson, The Washington Post
According to polls, Americans are in a mood to hold their breath until they turn blue. Voters appear to be so fed up with the Democrats that they're ready to toss them out in favor of the Republicans -- for whom, according to those same polls, the nation has even greater contempt. This isn't an "electoral wave," it's a temper tantrum.
It's bad enough that the Democratic Party's "favorable" rating has fallen to an abysmal 33 percent, according to a recent NBC-Wall Street Journal poll. It's worse that the Republican Party's favorability has plunged to just 24 percent. But incredibly, according to Gallup, registered voters say they intend to vote for Republicans over Democrats by an astounding 10-point margin. Respected analysts reckon that the GOP has a chance of gaining 45 to 60 seats in the House, which would bring Minority Leader John Boehner into the speaker's office.
My guess is that with a decided advantage in campaign funds, along with the other advantages of incumbency, Democrats will be able to mitigate these prospective losses -- perhaps even relieving Nancy Pelosi of the hassles of moving. But there's no mistaking the public mood, and the truth is that it makes no sense.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090203992.html?nav=emailpage
Thank you Mr. Robinson. Although I think this article is about 40 years too late. The hippies? Why do people admire them? The drugs/drinking? I saw an awful lot of damage done by drugs back then to family, friends, classmates, neighbors. It was a way of life for way too many, yet very acceptable. How many deaths from drugs by people so so young and foolish? Way too many.
The Me Generation. And it only got worse with the Reagan years. Drugs may have been leaving the landscape but materialism took over instead. Everyone talked about making their first million. Big cars, big houses...
The American Dream in reality became for too many, going into bankruptcy, because no one knew anything about responsibility. All they knew was selfishness. And had no patience. They wanted everything now. Everything.
And things haven't changed one bit all these years later. When you have a country who loves a woman who didn't know who Margaret Thatcher was; a woman who quit her job as governor to make big bucks, then obviously something is seriously seriously wrong. Still.
This election will come down to Boehner v. Pelosi. One loves to golf, stomp his feet and cater to the wealthy. The other wants to pass legislation that will benefit every single family in this country, and who btw, hates war. Don't the American people see the difference between the two? Do they even realize what is at stake here? No. Most of them don't care about any of it. They have learned nothing. But that's what happens when you vote for a man like GWB who became President solely on his name. Barack Obama did all the right things. On his own. He received a top notch education. He went back to his community to work. He has a lovely family. He has integrity. He's a hard worker. And he doesn't just quit, like everybody else. That's the American Dream.
"America must be a light to the world. Not just a missile." Nancy Pelosi.
Think Progress:
A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that only slightly more than one quarter of the country can correctly identify John Roberts as the Chief Justice of the United States:
Asked to name the current chief justice of the Supreme Court, and given four possible names, nearly one-in-ten Americans (8%) choose Thurgood Marshall, despite the fact that Justice Marshall left the Supreme Court roughly 20 years ago, and passed away in 1993. In fact, very few Americans can name the current chief justice in a Pew Research news quiz; just 28% were able to correctly identify John Roberts. Another 6% thought the recently retired Justice John Paul Stevens was chief justice, while 4% named Sen. Harry Reid. A majority (53%) admitted that they did not know the answer.
In many ways, Pew’s poll reflects the challenge facing progressives trying to educate the public about the harm Roberts caused since he became Chief in 2005. Roberts led a conservative bloc of five justices to grant corporate interests sweeping immunity from environmental law, from laws protecting women and older workers, from antitrust law, and — of course — from any meaningful restrictions on corporate money in American elections. Roberts’ dissenting votes go even further, declaring that rogue banks, drug companies and the tobacco industry should be immune from much of state law. But it’s hard to make the message about Roberts’ extremism penetrate the public mind if they don’t even know who he is.
Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin issued a new attack on the media yesterday in the wake of lengthy and critical profiles published in Vanity Fair and New York magazine. “Impotent, limp and gutless reporters take anonymous sources and cite them as being factual references,” she said. “It just slays me because it’s so absolutely clear what the state of yellow journalism is today.”
Eugene Robinson was simply plagiarizing the words of Peter Jennings, the late anchor of ABC World News.
In November 1994, Jennings told a radio audience following the Republican House takeover in that year's midterms that voters had staged a "temper tantrum".
Jennings later publicly apologized for his remark...I'm not holding my breath where Eugene Robinson is concerned.
The contempt for the electorate displayed by Robinson couldn't be more obvious, and is a crystal-clear glimpse into the elitist mindset of the left.
I can't wait to watch MSNBC "contributor" Robinson make the rounds...Morning Joe, Andrea Mitchell, Hardball, The Ed Show, Countdown (especially "Countdown"), and TRMS, immediately after Election Day in November.
That's going to be hilarious...
Speaking of temper tantrums, it looks like Eugene Robinson's article is making Mixed Bag throw one. Tantrums are so much easier than rational argument.
Oh yes, those nasty elitists! Those horrible, self-centered people who;
Stopped the practice of rescinding insurance coverage for people who get sick.
Closed the prescription drug donut hole.
Killed abuse of preexisting conditions clauses.
Extended the unemployment benefits of people who can't find jobs in the Bush Recession.
Put new limits on the ability of giant banking establishments to abuse their customers with outrageous fees, usurious interest rates, and other outrageous practices.
Pulled combat troops out of Iran, saving the lives of who knows how many soldiers, most of whom come from middle and lower class families.
Are standing up to Republican demands that we put the American tax payer three TRILLION dollars farther in debt to give additional tax breaks to the top 2% of earners.
Are trying to give tax breaks to the other 98% of workers as well as the small businesses that generate the majority of new jobs, but are being filibustered by Republicans.
What an interesting usage of the word "elitist". In fact it would appear that on every one of these issues and more it's Conservatives who are standing up for the real elite in society.
Great post, Pat. It is beyond me how voters who hold such contempt for republicans could decide to vote for them anyway. You're right about the WANT IT NOW crowd. It is why they think any President should have been able to fix a Great Recession in a few months.
John B, Des Moines, IA-
My use of the term "elitist" was specific to the view of the electorate expressed by Eugene Robinson (and many others on the left) in his article.
Evidently you're unable to perceive the condescension toward the voters in Mr. Robinson's remarks...it's absolutely palpable to me.
It's almost as though Robinson feels the electorate is a necessary nuisance...useful when they elect his champion, but dangerously and unruly when they decide they don't like the country's current trajectory and appear determined to do what they can to alter its course.
I consider that attitude "elitist"...clearly you don't agree.
I'm fine with that.
Pat, Boston;
I saw Eugene this AM. His points are right on. It makes no sense at all. I think that is what has us so frustrated. People are looking for an answer and the right is playing on this fear and anger by offering talking points that sound nice but no agenda to implement that rhetoric.
The American people are so feed up that they are grasping at anything that sounds good, even if it is an absolute lie or will never happen. We see this every day on Main Street Media. There are NO journalists that just tell the facts with no political agenda pushing them and let us make the choice.
We as a people are in trouble.
Mixed Bag:
Robinson thinks voters are acting irrationally based on the facts he cited. There's nothing condescending about that. He thinks voters are making a big mistake. Voters often do in hard times. Remember Richard Nixon won in a landslide and then had to resign in disgrace. The voters made a BIG mistake that time, too. The voters in the Gaza strip in Palestine elected Hamas militants to office. I think they made a big mistake, too. Is it "elitist" to criticize Palestinian voters for their choice of leaders?
We as a people are in trouble. US Navy
It is beyond me how voters who hold such contempt for republicans could decide to vote for them anyway. You're right about the WANT IT NOW crowd. It is why they think any President should have been able to fix a Great Recession in a few months. Jody, Iowa
_______________
There is no sense of community ... of we're all in this together type mentality. It's better to do nothing and then sit back and complain (whine/lie). That's the mentality of the entire GOP. How much more damage they're willing to accept is beyond me. Always always there is enough money for wars and tax cuts for the rich. But that's it with them. Nothing else. No money for the troops, for education, for infrastructure...they have no conception of the word "country"; how to rebuild it, how to properly educate it, how to take care of it health wise, how to move forward, like democracies are known to do.
Instead it's all about "me".
I think Robinson is only frustrated that so many voters have bought the Conservative PR spin that the government always has too much money and can make do with less without reducing services. They want the services, but they've been blinded to the FACT that every one of those services costs money. Who sells that vision? The Richard Mellon Scaifes, Rupert Murdochs, Sun Myung Moons, and Koch brothers and their like...the true elites of society.
He's frustrated that societies elites have conned us into doing their bidding, all while thinking those who try to make things better for the regular guy are the real elites. It's a great game, but in 3 card monte there IS no face card. You just think there is.
Umm, John, I think that last one is just delusional. If anything, it's the Dems who spew that nonsense. The Reps are all about reducing government services and making people take care of themselves.
Actually, no, looking at it more, it's the combination of the two. The Dems demand more government services and welfare, while the Reps demand lower taxes. Put together, it's a toxic combination that has put us in the situation we're in now.
John B, Des Moines, IA-
Eugene Robinson didn't discriminate in his criticism of the American electorate, John.
He couldn't.
He couldn't say that John B of Des Moines has it exactly right, and those of us who have the temerity to disagree have it all wrong...
Because, once Eugene says THAT...he's no longer a small "d" democrat, or any kind of "democrat" at all, really.
Because...democratically speaking (small "d", John), the electorate is ALWAYS right.
Always.
You don't like democracy...?
Then, go one further than Eugene Robinson...say it, John.
If you CAN'T say it...then agree to accept November's election results without criticizing the electorate's evaluation of the Democratic Party's leadership.
That's odd, the Republicans prescription drug plan for Seniors was the biggest increase in a discretionary program in decades.
Where's the list of services the Republicans feel we should eliminate?
I'm fine with democracy, in fact I'd like to see the most level playing field possible in that regard. That doesn't mean the electorate is always right, however. Was Jim Crow right? It had significant popular support. Was it right to say that women couldn't vote? That position had firm popular support when it first arose. Was Joe McCarthy justified in his red baiting? The people of his home state sent him to Washington so by your definition it must be so. But it isn't.
Even our founders realized that, witness;
"Government being founded on opinion, the opinion of the public, even when it is wrong, ought to be respected to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson to Nicholas Lewis
That doesn't say that the majority opinion is always right or even that it always must be obeyed. That's why we have representatives whose job it is to do the right thing even when that disagrees with popular opinion. The critical piece in this, however, is that both opinion and representatives not be cynically manipulated. Money as speech, enormous public relations campaigns to convince people that up is down, night is day must be resisted. Those are things that make the playing field of democracy decidedly UNlevel, and they're prime movers within the Conservative sphere today.
Source, John...
Please, if you'll indulge me, please source your assertion that MOST American voters approved of Jim Crow laws? In the interests of accuracy, regarding the popular vote in our democracy?
I suppose you believe that the election of President Barack Obama, with 53% of the vote, represents the "unlevel" nature of the current state of affairs regarding our democracy?
Are you agreeing with me, or offering a serious dissent?
Jim Crow survived until he was executed by the courts. That speaks for itself.
Of course I don't see Obama's 7% margin of victory as something "unlevel" in our democracy, I see it as a win. GW Bush's 3% margin of victory in 2004 was also a win. That's how we decide our office holders. Can't imagine how to do it better.
What's unlevel is the "money is speech" aspect of our current system. Money comes closer to being votes, and someone who can spend vastly more money than I has vastly more votes. It's even worse when corporations become "persons". If they are persons they are the worst sort -- sociopaths. By definition they have no concern for anyone else and an extraordinarily narrow definition of what they need from the government.
It's also unlevel to allow people (or organized groups) to circulate lies and smears without challenging them. http://mediamatters.org/research/200703200011 Even more unlevel when great amounts of money are dedicated just to this task alone. The evidence indicates there's a whole minor industry dedicated to just this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8298267&page=1 It's shameful and the wealthy benefactors of this industry http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=1 deserve public shame for trying to subvert our democracy to their own interests.
Honestly, John...
I'll bet Eugene Robinson "Can't imagine how to do it better", either.
That's why he's a hypocrite when he asserts that the electorate is throwing a "temper tantrum" because they don't appear ready to accept, let alone reward, the incompetence of the leadership of the Democratic Party.
MB, Robinson points out that politicians of BOTH parties present "quick, painless solutions to long-term, structural problems" and calls the "magical solutions."
Given that all of us, regardless of political party come here and complain about exactly that every day how is that partisan? Robinson points out that politicians do this because voters REWARD that behavior.
But that's OK, if you want to pretend the Republicans don't do it as well go right ahead.
Excellent points as usual, Amy. I haven't spoken to even one person who said he/she was deciding whether to keep Leonard Boswell or Chuck Grassley based on rioting in Greece. Not one to say that Boswell should be jettisoned due to an oil spill in the Gulf, though Chuck Grassley's "killing Grannie" comment is quite infamous here and probably a contributor to a closer race than he's faced in many years. That's right, in an election season that conventional wisdom says will be a Republican wave Conservative Republican Chuck Grassley is having to work to keep his normally safe seat. Why would that be? People I know tell me that it's because they don't trust him anymore, they've heard him say too many things they know to be untrue.
Why would that be? He's only following Republican strategy and espousing the same principles as his housemates on C Street. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/25/AR2009062504480.html
To all you liberals, progressives and Marxists,
Write and post what you will but all of you have forgotten something. Remember "It's the economy stupid", it held true then and it still holds true. Prez Obama's economic policies, even if they were meant with good intention, are a failure. You can't blame the opposition when you have a huge majority in Congress. You can't justify 9.6% unemployment a horrendous national debt, a health care disaster and expect to win a dog catcher position as a Democrat.
The economy has been in bad shape for a long time. But don't blame the GOP for not lifting one single finger to help. Of course not. Why would you do that?
Why don't you write to Boehner and McConnell and ask them what they have done to help? We all know the answer to that - they've done nothing.
afloatinasea
Not according to most non-partisan economists, including Mark Zandi who was John McCain's economic adviser during th 2008 campaign. So whom should we believe, you and the Republican political hacks that you're just parroting, or the experts? Decisions, decisions.
afloatinasea, your post shows a distinct lack of knowledge of macro-economics, the actual state of the ecomomy and a lack of knowledge about how we got here. It also reveals an underlying hatred of the President based upon faulty knowledge and logic.
afloatinasea - you are ABSOLUTELY right. It IS about the ecomony. It IS about people's ability to find a decent job. It IS about government spending and economic policies.
To make a blanket statement like that, we have to understand the dynamic behind WHY we are not seeing much movement economically and why Government spending is - for NOW - very important.
As far as unemployment is concerned, the reason I believe we have a sluggish economy is because those that DO have jobs are NOT (over)extending themselves when it relates to credit. Most of us are using the money we make to PAY DOWN OUR DEBT. By doing this, the money that would 'nomally' be used to buy things is being paid to the bank(s) and other debt servicers, which in effect is taking the money OUT of circulation (a decrease in buying power). The DISCRETIONARY dollar - the one that we use for entertainment, trips and frivilous buying - has almost disappeared.
What we are seeing is the money that is being spent is for living expenses and essentials - food, gas, fares, utilities. Any extra is being used to pay off those credit cards (and most Americans have at LEAST $10,000 worth of credit card bills to deal with) so they are not paying interest on balances that do NOTHING to stimulate the economy. Also, people are saving more money these days so that they can weather a downturn in their personal lives - loss of a job, a medical bill, bankrputcy, loss of a home.
Since we have seen over the past 30 years that our manufactuaring capabilities have been shipped to China and India, that segment of the economy will continue to be sluggish, which affects the increase in the manufactured good that can be sold. People are NOT going to buy when they are uncertain about their monies in their budgets. Companies are NOT going to expand if they don't see any demand for their goods or services. The only ones making out right now are the debt servicers and the banks (because people are paying down their debt), and we know that they don't directly contribute to the economy the way that manufactured goods (especially durable goods) would.
To bolster my point, I have added an excerpt from FOXDEN RACING (a poster on here) and I sincerely hope that Foxden doesn't mind too much that I am quoting HIM in one of my posts. Here is the excerpt:
Foxden does, in his argument say that the economy is NORMALISING. I agree with him. WE have had amped consumption driven by credit; now that the credit has 'dried up', our spending is DIFFERENT. We have no DISCRETIONARY income to use so the 'luxuries' that we WOULD have spent money on are not in the budget for now.
afloatinasea, you may want to blame the President for the current economic situaiton we are in, and that is your right to do so. However, my argument - along with Fox Den Racing's post - tells a different story. The stimulus was too small. The Government spending MUST continue until the ecomony is self-sustaining. THEN and only then should spending be cut.
Please feel free to dissect and rebut this post.
afloatinasea. Why do you insist on using terms for liberals that are straight from the mouth of Glenn Beck? Marxist? Prove it, but first tell us what you think it is.
Pietro. A great lesson in economics!
Very true Pietro, and thanks for sharing Foxden's thoughts. We frequently hear "consumer spending makes up 70% of the economy" as if that's a normal condition. In fact that's not true, except that it had crept upward to that level before the beginning of the Bush Recession. It's historically been somewhat lower, and the last time it approached that level was 1929. I think I see a pattern here of what happens when the consumer is overburdened and overleveraged. And it's a pattern that backs up that comment about normalizing.
You notice that the republicans keep using President Clinton's campaign line, "it's the economy stupid". Seems they always go back and find something that worked in the past and use it ad nausea. But as usual the republicans don't have any new ideas just old talking points.
Absolutely true Mo, because appropriating language is critical to their success. Just think of all the things that have been claimed by Conservatives as theirs alone in an attempt to leave the other side with nothing--Patriotism, hard work, religion, it just goes on and on.
Pietro
The discretionary spending is down because we are watching our pennies. Please remember that by the government taking so much money to pay our debt makes it difficult for companies to borrow. The Obama administration has no real interest in turning this economy around. Harsh statement, yes, but true and this is why I believe it. In the 787 Billion dollar stimulus, this administration directed a little over 1% of the funding toward small businesses. Now Pietro, just explain to me why 1% went to the segment of the economy that creates a minimum of 60% of new JOBS. Wouldn't you think that anybody with common sense economic education would direct money where the growth would be? Pietro it is still almost impossible for a small business to try and obtain a loan. Just add the health care fiasco to the mix and you have businesses in retreat.
Manufacturing jobs went overseas for four major reasons. The first is that American manufacturers did not reinvest heavily into updating their equipment. Second, unions were in-transient in allowing work rule concessions to increase productivity and quality. Third foreign companies were moving their factories overseas and the items that were being shipped here were less expensive thus forcing American companies to move overseas. Fourth and probably the main reason is that YOU and ME purchased the least expensive item, which was and is usually made overseas.
The FoxDen post is partially correct. Overspending by consumers can be traced back to the credit card. When you had to pay by cash or check or a loan there was a tendency to be a lot more careful with how we spent our money. Giving credit cards to people just made buying easier and penny watching disappear. Oh yes there was hyperconsumption and it made the economy flourish. Now we have to pay the price. Where I disagree with the post is that increasing taxes is a must. Well if you really want to destroy us just do that. I mean raising taxes on anybody. Government has to slash its spending. The lib mantra on increasing taxes on businesses will only push more companies overseas. Raising taxes on people and it will be all of us only makes the burden heavier.
The economy is not normalizing, it is retreating to a point where we will have 10% unemployment for years. Government spending to create government jobs and to keep teachers and union members afloat is not the answer. The government has to help businesses because they are the ones who create long lasting, tax paying jobs. Government needs to make doing business in this country a worthwhile endeavour. This administration does not understand this and we are paying a terrible price.
This is not for you Pietro but for Houston! and Mathew.
When you walk like a marxist and quack like a marxist you are a marxist.
There is a clarification that needs to be made. Liberals are not Marxists. They are, however, heavily influenced by the Liberation Theology movement in much of black society. This has by and large moved into liberal society as well. The reason it is so often confused with Marxism is because it was heavily based on the teachings of Karl Marx fused with the Christian concept of Church unity and loving thy neighbor.
They aren't Marxists, they really aren't. They're just a lot like Marxists.
afloatinasea - thank you for answering my post. I have a few issues with your post, so I am going to break it down a bit.
Afloat, here I think you and I actually agree. We ARE watching our pennies. However, the Government is NOT taking so much money from the populace; the BANKS are. People are paying down their debt FIRST, so therefore they are not spending money on other items. The money paid to the BANK stays in the bank and is not circulated.
Afloat, the stimulus was too small, and the amount that is to go to small business was too small. You can thank your friendly neighbourhood GOP for blocking the monies that got to small business because they INSISTED on using that money for a tax cut. President Obama relented, and here we sit.
I agree with you that 1% towards small business was not enough; this is why we have the Small Business Bill that is currently being blocked by the Republicans in Congress. That bill would do EXACTLY what you are proposing. It would open up $30 BILLION dollars for lines of credit so that small businesses can expand.
Again, we agree. Our manufacturing base is now in China. For the US to ramp up production on American soil again, it will take YEARS to get us to where we were in 2001. That segment of the economy is going to be sluggish for YEARS to come.
As far as what the consumer buys, they are going to buy the CHEAPEST thing they can. Its not because they WANT to, its because that is what fits in their budget.
The BIGGEST issue is that American manufacturing did NOT invest wisely. They went after the fast money, and in doing so, decimated American manufacturing capabilities. Whose fault was it? BOTH PARTIES (specifically NAFTA). Clinton started it (as it was President HW Bush that pushed it and a Republican Congress that ratified it) and President Bush II that did NOTHING to stop the hemmoraging.
The credit-driven consuption was going to crash at some point in time because it was unsustainable. Unfortunately for many businesses, they took that hyperinflation as the NORM and adjusted their businesses accordingly.
As far as Taxes are concerned, the only thing I am hearing about tax increases are the expiration of th Bush Taxc Cuts of 2001. The Obama Administration is trying to pass a bill to keep those that are making less than $250,000 at the CURRENT tax rate. The GOP is holding up the bill right now as they do not want ANY taxes to be increased. However, if we have less money circulating in the economy because more people are servicing their debt, then where is the money going to come from to maintain our society?
Right now, the impetus is to get the people who benefitted the most from the Bush Tax Cuts to contribute more for the greater good of American Society. They, of course, don't want to pay more. Why should they? I would think that most would agree with you about raising taxes, but the revenue for running this country (and financing those ever-popular wars) must come from SOMEWHERE.
I disagree here. Since the economy is not hyper-inflated, I believe that Foxden Racing is ABSOLUTELY right. There is less demand because there is less money to finance the demand. However, to keep the American economy from imploding and causing a world-wide depression, the stimulus was used to generate some money/cash flow so the economy would function. Because businesses are NOT selling as much as before, the job situation will continue to improve SLOWLY. Again, Foxden was ABSOLUTELY right.
I agree that the government has to help businesses; the Government is NOT a Bank. The BANKS have decided to tighten credit to the point where they are not lending very much out. The money is there. The money can be lent, but the lenders do not want to. So to get around these tight-fisted lenders, the Government is TRYING to provide $30 BILLION in loan guarantees so that business can be financed enough to boost the economy. Again, the GOP is blocking this bill.
Afloatinasea, we actually agree more than we disagree on this subject. However, we have to BOTH be dispassionate for a moment. We have to put ideaology aside for a moment and FIX what ails ALL of us. You think the Democrats are going to far with the spending; I have argued above that they are not spending enough. The GOP will not allow votes on some bills that would help us in the Senate because of partisan and political reasons.
I say get the ecomony working again and THEN we can argue which ideaology is better. Right now, we need to pull together as Americans and make sure we have something to argue about.
Thanks for your post, afloatinasea.
I see that afloatinasea is willing and ready to donate money to contribute for the taxt cut for the top 2 percent.
Has your 401K balance gone up too?????
afloatinasea if the repugs win in November and the country goes in a depression after they cut social security, medicare, unemployment benefits and the stimulus programs.
I know that you will still keep trying to blame President Obama after that.
Now remember that I warned you. When you lose your job in that depression and have no unemployment benefits, ( the repugs will tell you that you are spoiled)
At that point, the repugs would have to find someone else to tax to pay for the tax cut for the top 2 percent because you will be unemployed and starving.
Fiesty
History has taught us that the one thing money can't buy... is common sense!
How true, because if that was the case , multi-millionaire Glenn Beck would have some.
Will the American Voter seriously consider giving the Republican Congressmen & women an extension of thier Tax $$, so the Republicans can continue to sit on thier collective A$$es & do NOTHING?
I Doubt It !
But, stranger things have happened.
Answer in November.
If repubs don't back the rights of a women to get a abortion then why don't they go after the men that get them pregnant by making them get vasectomies .the trounce womens rights why not the men?
They aren't trying to trounce women's rights. They're trying to preserve the rights of unborn children. Women may have a right to do what they want with their bodies, but they don't have the right to do whatever they want with their children's bodies. The courts have decided that unborn children don't have rights. Conservatives disagree.
come on you libs you're really reaching now. "trounce women's rights"....."It also reveals an underlying hatred of the President based upon faulty knowledge and logic." LOGIC: hatred of the pres. I wouldn't term it 'hatred' as much as distaste. And rightfully so; when I started researching this guy in '04 right after his Keynote speech one of the first web sites that i came across was The American Democratic Socialistic Party "newest member, Barrack Hussein Obama"....and that was it for me. You need say no more. Of couse the site was scrubbed as all background info was scrubbed. I've paid extreme close attention to him Pelsoi Reid Axelrod and all the czars ever since. Also to Harold Koh who Odummo appt'd lead counsel in the State Dept. and others.
Takes two to tango..Repubs play that abortion card in a tight race so why not go after men by making them get vasectomies if the women wants a abortion ? ..afraid to take a real stand against abortion and your afraid that the repubs would lose their votes ..you know they would.
Show me Annie. Prove to me that Barack Obama was ever a Socialist instead of a Democrat. If you can't then it's one more in a wide world of Obama smears.
A warm shout out to fiesty and ron and the rest of the sane people on the vine. right when I start to lose hope I read your posts and regain it. thanks for spending your time to reassure me that there is still hope.. continue on with the good work and look forward to hear from you guys and gals on a daily basis.
The economy will have the biggest impact on the election. What troubles me is republicans have done absolute NOTHING to help solve the problem and everything to stop the democrats and Pres Obama from fixing it. Why would anyone support a legislator who has done nothing to help them? Republicans see their obstructionist tactics as a way to win elections--I see them as failures. They broke it but rather than fix it, they cause further suffering for the American people. The GOP does not deserve a return to power. Whether they get it remains to be seen. Wake up America, remember 2001-2008 and think long and hard before giving the GOP another chance right now.
Jody,
Statements like your making is the exact reason people are going to vote Republican. No one that normally votes Republican will ever vote for a Democrat when you're constantly bashing them.
This country is center-right and all it is doing is voting the way it normally does. There is nothing scientific to figure out.
Like YOU said , YOU SEE THEM AS FAILURES...most of the electorate doesn't.
ITM, if pointing out the hypocrisy, misstatements of facts, illegal acts and policies that have brought this country's economy to it's knees and is destroying the middle class is 'bashing the Republicans', then so be it. It is the truth and can not be denied.
So you'd vote for a Democrat if we sang the praises of the Republican Party platform and declared them the perfect model for society?
That seems counterintuitive.
In the Middle. Tell us what republicans have done the last 20 months. What have they done? Calling them out on obstructionism and failing to do anything to help fix the problems is not bashing them, it is simply stating a fact.
I agree Jody the transparency of repubs are a main issue with me as well or they don't have a agenda moving the country forward. Texas politics is what we have and it's terrible for the nation to take that path. Glad a Obama is president to veto anything they bring up if repubs take the senate
You leave out the biggest single game changer for the midterms. It is spelled 'K O C H'. The amount of behind the scenes money fueling the right wing/libertarian agenda is staggering. They paid for/bused in protesters to the town halls, funded right wing think tanks (and dictated their policies), and funded the tea party rallies (again busing people in). What amazes me is that these people at the bottom are helping to push an agenda that is completely against their own self interests. Its almost like they have been brainwashed
or being paid to show up at town meetings and being loud and rude
Brainwashed is a strong term ScottNatl, though I see why you feel that way. I see it more as a GIGANTIC PR campaign targeted at convincing people that subservience to the rich is actually freedom and making them richer somehow is of benefit to everyone else. Advertising has been used for decades to convince people that marginal products are high end and that we MUST HAVE things that we don't need at all. The talk universe is really just one unending infomercial designed to get us to hand our democratic society over to the elites.
Yes, its called propaganda
This is my OPINION as to why we have situation(s) with the Tea Party in respect to this post I am responding to.
I did not have a lot when I grew up, and I can remember that when I saw 'rich' people, there was a certain 'respect' that they got BECAUSE they were rich. People who don't have money will defer to those that do, and if a rich person says something, you can believe that many will follow or believe what was being said, with many hoping that they would get a few of the 'crumbs' from the rich person's table.
I have had many dealings with 'rich' people in business settings. I can tell you that many 'millionaires' became that way because they do NOT pay their bills. They usually get their money through nefarious means, and spend their lifetime trying to protect what they have stolen. They sit on MORE MONEY than you can imagine. Very FEW people who are millionaires actually got their millions honestly.
I am making this distinction because we want to figure out why the Tea Party people - people of modest means - are so willing to follow along with the Dick Armey, the KOCH brothers and others of that social circle.
Are the Tea Party people brainwashed? No. Manipulated? Yes. There is a strange 'attitude' amongst people of modest means that make them want to 'protect' people who are rich. People who have money could care LESS about those that do not. You have to understand that rich people are the most self-centered, cold, calculating, selfish, manipulative people that you would ever meet. When I was in business, I had more trouble getting the money owed me from millionaires than I did from the middle-class person who had barely enough to survive on (I usually got paid on time when dealing with the middle class person). I have seen with my own eyes how some millionaires get out of paying for things done for them; I have seen how they 'beat up' vendors to get discounts on work that has been done. I have seen how they exasperate vendors into giving them HUGE discounts where the vendor is actually FINANCING the rich person's work.
Rich people are rich because they don't spend any money.
I said all of that to say this - the Tea Party people are pawns in a larger game. The rich people of yesterday who were in charge KNEW that they have to give something back to the masses or else THEIR lifestyle is in jeopardy. This is why you see people like the Kennedys with so many 'Foundations' and charities. Are these money makers? NO. They are not designed to be. They are designed to show people that they 'care' about their fellow humans, and will use the money that they put into these 'charites' and 'foundations' to fund things that will be used by the masses.
Can the same argument be made for the Republican and Democratic parties? Sure. Are we being manipulated by ALL the parties involved? Of Course. I think the DEGREE of the manipulation is where there is a distinction.
Now do not get me wrong - the many charities and foundations have done our society a WORLD of good in many respects. A lot of rich people will fund something that they are passionate about with the modest means masses reaping the benefit.
The rich people of today are spoiled and STUPID, in my opinion. They are willing to take EVERYTHING - and I do mean EVERYTHING - just because. For example, we have little Paris Hilton doing her 'society' thing, getting into trouble and thinking that all of that is funny. If you haven't noticed, there are very few Hilton hotels around anymore. Why? I submit it is because of Paris and her antics. Why would ANYONE want to stay at a Hilton knowing that their hard earned money will be going to Paris for her shenanigans? She is bad for business. Do you think that she actually cares about the hard work, sweat and tears that Conrad Hilton put into building that empire?
The short answer: No.
Instead of today's rich people doing something GOOD for the masses (like they did in the past), we have the current crop that is trying to DESTROY the golden goose that made them rich in the first place. Does it make any sense? Of course not. Is this short-sighted? Absolutely. But it would explain why we have the ultra-rich USING people of modest means to vote against their own best interest.
Notice the short-sighted, selfish theme here? THAT is NO accident.
The people of modest means THINK that the rich guys have their BACK. That's why they are so vociferous in defense of the rich people's 'agenda'. The dirty little secret is that once the rich interests get what they want, they will 'expense' their losses.
Just like they have done with jobs in this country.
Just like they have done with the banking system in this country.
Just like they have done when they outsource YOUR job to India or China.
Unfortunately, there is NOTHING we can tell a Tea Party person right now; they will NOT believe us. We will have to wait until they realise that they are being used for someone's amusement. That sort of hurt and shame does a lot to a person's psyche.
What we CAN do is EMBRACE those Tea Party persons once they have learned their lesson dealing with Dick Armey and the KOCH Borothers. And as AMERICANS, together we can and will stand up for what is right for ALL Americans.
As Americans, YES, we are our brother's keeper.
It's too bad we are forgetting that right now when fellow Americans need us.
Thanks for the encouragement Keepertrout... and I was late to the table the other day in extending my condolences for the loss of your son!
May you & your wife continue to find strength and bask in the warmth of all the memories you have of him.
Keep up the good fight my friend!
Pietro, that's a great description of our current circumstances. I've often put it in terms of the wealthy breaking the unspoken contract that makes America work. The path followed by the wealthy of the last several generations led to a great nation. The path preferred by today's wealthy leads only to ruin for us as a nation.
thanks so much fiesty I can never get near any of your posts ..your pretty popular gal around here. I always look for first read to see what you and ron write..it's a great habit I've fallen into with my coffee in the mornings and I am never disappointed..thanks again for taking the time to write ...I'l be watching for you :) thanks
Aww Shucks there keepertrout... do you realize how difficult it is to make a redhead 'blush'? ;0))
Thanks again for the kind words!
Have a wonderful weekend!
20 deleted, Chris, Dorr, MI grenade-trolling:
Don't do this. Post like a grownup, without the namecalling. Attack the rhetoric you take issue with, not people you've never met. You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
FR ....
You guys forgot the number one thing that is Driving the Midterm elections
The Majority of the American People Dont Trust the Democrats.. They dont like what they are doing. they believe the country is heading in the wrong Direction...
There you go again, Steve, claiming to speak for 'the majority of the American people'. What hubris, what arrogance. It only makes you look like a fool, Steve.
You're exactly right! I'm done with their BS. And you know, it's not even the financial crap and caos that they're purposefully institued as much as it is they profound elite thinking that the government is going to take care of us all! BS!!! These whimp butts are done!!!!!!!!!!!!! My grandkids are NOT going to get up and put on their government issued uniform and report to their government designated job! So you damn leftie libs get ready because it "ain't" gonna happen
Matthew.
You should take your Blinders off, Whether you like it or not . THE MAJORITY of american people are telling you liberals that they dont like it. Most of the Posters on this site know it... they know the Democrats are gonna take a Beating come novermber.. I am sorry you dont like it. .but its gonna happen..
You sir are the Fool for staying on a Sinking Ship.. ..I will gladly give you a life Jacket..
Prove it, Steve.
Name calling is very childish, Steve.
Matthew.
Yawn..............
Once again, Steve has nothing and concedes.
Matthew,
Once again you post NOTHING and think i should respond to it.. I stated my postion fairly Clearly at the very beginining
The Majority of the American People Dont Trust the Democrats.. They dont like what they are doing. they believe the country is heading in the wrong Direction...
Again. YAWN..
Steve, you made a statement claiming that you knew what everyone else was thinking. I indicated that you are again claiming that which you could not possibly know.
You came back with a statement that I should just accept your statement because, basically, you said it was so. And then called me a fool. (No, Steve, I did not call you a fool, I simply said you sounded foolish. There is a difference.)
So I asked you to prove your original statement and indicated that name calling was childish.
You could not prove your statement so you did what you have done before when you could not prove what you said.
I took that as a concession and indicated it as such.
Now you are back accusing me of having nothing when you could not prove your statement? Really? Oh, Stevie boy, it looks like I really hit a raw nerve there, son.
Pitiful, Steve, just pitiful.
See thats what your problem is Matthew,
I have told you what will Happen in Novermber.. whether you like it or not i dont care I am sorry that you are in Denile about the Failure of the Obama and the Democrats. but it is what it is...
Again. YAWN............. you bore me as much as Mo
Once again, Steve concedes.
Matthew... I'm a tad confused here and hoping you can help me out...
Isn't 'Denile' a river in Egypt... or is Steve referring to denial?
Thanks! ;0)
I don't know about anyone else but there is no way in hell i'm going to leave Dems in Congress to do any more destruction that they already have. Odummo is a pure socialist. No doubt about that and his arrogance and narrcissism knows no bounds. He and the Progressives (Communists) have done enough damage. 2012 can't come soon enough. You think this country wanted Health Care Reform that is going to tank us even more? Another Stimulus like they're talking about again when they haven't used up the remainder of the first one and the money they did spend went to 'paybacks' for getting Odummo elected such as studying ants, dancing and replacing windows in a view center that wasn't even open; do you think that we're all enjoying bailing out the pensions for the Unions??? Not a chance guys! VOTE ALL DEMS OUT!!!!!
How about some examples there Annie. Its real easy to repeat the talking points...now back it up with some proof or some numbers...you cant. You dont even know what Socialist means yet you spout it so proudly...Obama's policies are far from Socialist. He is also not been very progressive, thus progressives are none to happy with him. I personally wanted healthcare since I couldn't get it before the passage of this bill, but I guess you see me as one of those 'bottom feeders, eh (even though I make over 50,000 a year I couldn't afford it before this bill). As far as tanking us...speak for yourself. The CBO says healthcare will reduce the deficit, but who cares about real numbers when they dont fit your agenda. Any major economist will tell you the stimulus worked, it just wasn't big enough. I get so sick of hearing the lies and misinformation people like you, Annie spout off. Its YOU and your like that are destroying this country hardly the other way around
Oh and here's another little tid-bit for you leftie libs out there: YOUR pres, because he certainly isn't mine, sent a "letter of review" to none other than the Human Rights Council at the UN. Now you want to know why he did that? Because AZ crossed him on the damn immigration. Do you know who reviews such a letter at the UN??? Try Cuba, Russia, Red China, Saudia Arabia, Iran......HOW DARE HE. That SOB is a total embarrassament to this country. Our presidents before him would never join the HRC at the UN because the members are the very countries who deal in tortures of their peoples and make a sham of the entire operation. But oh no, this SOB puts America up once again as the bad guy. Well to hell with him!! I am done with him making us look weak, enbarrassing the hell out of us (hell at the Summit they laughed at him), and putting this country in danger. You think I'm going to continue to put up with @!$%# like that??? NOT on your life!!! VOTE ALL DEMS OUT!!!
Annie -- when GWB was put into office against the majority vote of the American people, I was really mad about it and refused to acknowledge him as the president of our country.
And I was told by people just as disappointed and angry as I was what I'll tell you: That our president is OUR president and as such deserves our support and respect, whether we voted for him or not.
He was duly elected by by the people of this country...so if he isn't your president, that makes you a traitor to this country and HARDLY the patriot you think you are
As for your earlier comment about the healthcare law bankrupting us and the stimulus not working...How about some examples there Annie. Its real easy to repeat the talking points...now back it up with some proof or some numbers...you cant. You dont even know what Socialist means yet you spout it so proudly...Obama's policies are far from Socialist. He is also not been very progressive, thus progressives are none to happy with him. I personally wanted healthcare since I couldn't get it before the passage of this bill, but I guess you see me as one of those 'bottom feeders, eh (even though I make over 50,000 a year I couldn't afford it before this bill). As far as tanking us...speak for yourself. The CBO says healthcare will reduce the deficit, but who cares about real numbers when they dont fit your agenda. Any major economist will tell you the stimulus worked, it just wasn't big enough. I get so sick of hearing the lies and misinformation people like you, Annie spout off. Its YOU and your like that are destroying this country hardly the other way around
AnnieRich Comment collapsed by the community
Oh and here's another little tid-bit for you leftie libs out there: YOUR pres, because he certainly isn't mine, sent a "letter of review" to none other than the Human Rights Council at the UN. Now you want to know why he did that? Because AZ crossed him on the damn immigration. Do you know who reviews such a letter at the UN??? Try Cuba, Russia, Red China, Saudia Arabia, Iran......HOW DARE HE. That SOB is a total embarrassament to this country. Our presidents before him would never join the HRC at the UN because the members are the very countries who deal in tortures of their peoples and make a sham of the entire operation. But oh no, this SOB puts America up once again as the bad guy. Well to hell with him!! I am done with him making us look weak, enbarrassing the hell out of us (hell at the Summit they laughed at him), and putting this country in danger. You think I'm going to continue to put up with @!$%# like that??? NOT on your life!!! VOTE ALL DEMS OUT!!!
Human rights records at the UN are reviewed by all countries of the world. The US has always used the UN to accuse many other countries of human right violations.
Why are you so afraid of scrutiny?? What is AZ hiding????
The majority in the USA consider ourselves conservative and Christian like it or not! When we decide to show up at the voting booths (take off work) you'll get genuine change! Look at the condition (economic & social) of conservative states verses liberal and you'll find the conservative states are doing noticeably better!! Republicans are far from perfecto (understatement) but much more frugal and socially conservative-which is cheaper too! We're out of money-the conservatives will take charge now-can't afford more liberal spending for any reason and the majority will show up when we've got a crisis like we do now!! A nation divided falls hard-let's agree on reducing debt-it unsustainable by any estimate and it's the 12th hour! Yes, we will have to raise taxes too-Republicans make the mental adjustment already! What we do with our money as a nation says everything about us!
Sammy -- you're a twit. You're not the majority, and btw, it's bad manners to suggest that only Conservative Christians go to work. Get over yourself. The rest of us go to work too, and have the good sense to vote by mail so we don't have to take time off (on the clock, I'm sure) to do our civic duty.
And to be fair, it's nice to see you acknowledge a need raise taxes. Please note that the difference between Dems and Repubs on this score is that Dems want to tax the extremely rich and let the rest of us keep our hard-earned paychecks, and Republicans want to eliminate all taxes on the super rich and impose more/higher taxes on working people. Check it out for yourself.
Last time I checked, we were not a nation that promoted a religion. I agree that the money we spend should be spent wisely and not wasted, but I think we need to put people to work before we worry about the debt. Working people pay taxes...taxes reduce the debt. As far as social issues, I dont think the government has any business looking in peoples' bedrooms. The republicans have not been a shining example of leadership IMO...they have no plan other than 'NO'. Paul Ryans plan is deeply flawed (how do you have a plan for the economy that doesn't use forecasts for revenue), and it raises the deficit even more than if we did nothing, and creates more hardship for the elderly (talk about killing Grandma...)
Conservative states like Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, LA ?
Help me out with the statistics on Health Care, Education, Environment, etc.
Your Uncle Sammy
The majority in the USA consider ourselves conservative and Christian like it or not! When we decide to show up at the voting booths (take off work) you'll get genuine change! Look at the condition (economic & social) of conservative states verses liberal and you'll find the conservative states are doing noticeably better!! Republicans are far from perfecto (understatement) but much more frugal and socially conservative-which is cheaper too! We're out of money-the conservatives will take charge now-can't afford more liberal spending for any reason and the majority will show up when we've got a crisis like we do now!! A nation divided falls hard-let's agree on reducing debt-it unsustainable by any estimate and it's the 12th hour! Yes, we will have to raise taxes too-Republicans make the mental adjustment already! What we do with our money as a nation says everything about us!
Oh, I see that the repubs are planning to raise taxes.
the repubs are planning to raise taxes!!!!
the repubs are planning to raise taxes!!!!
Really Alex? You'd have trouble proving it by educational outcomes http://www.epc.msu.edu/documents/QualityCounts2010_PressRelease.pdf
or poverty rates http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/income_expenditures_poverty_wealth/income_and_poverty--state_and_local_data.html
or medical care http://statesnapshots.ahrq.gov/snaps09/index.jsp . Even teen pregnancy rates tend to be higher in red states.
Red states do a great job of importing the federal taxes paid by blue states though. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html Mostly because they're a mess and need the help. You're welcome.
Your Uncle Sammy was the one that posted the right wing garbage.
I just pasted his garbage. I only posted these lines below:
Oh, I see that the repubs are planning to raise taxes.
the repubs are planning to raise taxes!!!!
the repubs are planning to raise taxes!!!!
Thanks for all the information. I hope he reads it too.
Hey Alex, didn't mean to pick on you and thanks for understanding. The facts have a great way of defanging attacks that are based on talking points.
Taxing employer-provided health insurance is a zero tolerance issue for a lot of people. Those who voted for it will be targeted for elimination in the November elections.
Not that it was a choice in the MSNBC poll, but the ongoing economic misery is probably the #1 "event" driving the midterm elections. Unemployed people don't generally vote for incumbents. They will be a force to be reckoned with. Demographics being what they are, this group consists of mostly Democratic voters who have no incentive to vote that way again.
It seems that hg1234 is unemployed.
hg1234 would have starved to death a long time ago without unemployment benefits, if the repubs had been in charge.
I see that hg1234 is willing and ready to donate money to contribute for the tax cut for the top 2 percent.
Has your 401K balance gone up too?????
The biggest factor in the midterms is the totally GOP-centric reporting by NBC and the other networks. It's a total disgrace. I'd like to ask Chuck Todd and the rest to even up the coverage over the next two months. Let's hear from some of the many Democrats out there with worthwhile things to say. I'm totally sick of listening to the deranged GOP talking points. There are more than Republicans in this country, ya know.
Here's the data from today, 9/3/2010 @ 9:30 PDT:
Sept 3, 2010 Today show clips – Decision 2010
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38988775#38988775
Arizona governor freezes up during debate
Colorado GOP suffers misgivings about candidate
Sestak on tough road to November
What will happen to Senate Dems? (featuring pic of Fiorina)
Filibuster reform: should senate scrap supermajority
Primary concerns: what must Obama do
A tough environment for incumbents, says Bayh
Is Palin planning a 2012 presidential run? (I mean honestly -- WTF? Was there really no NEWS to report this day?)
Challenging the GOPs new breed of extremists
Tancredo gets early start on war on Christmas pandering
Tea party eats away at GOP
Tough times to break GOP serge (GOP pic again -- Nussbaum looks like the raptor-women in the Mountain Dew ad -- scary)
Palin to headline Iowa fundraiser (again, who cares? She's not even in office.)
Democrats: ‘cavalry not coming’
Primary concerns: lessons for midterms (pic of Dean -- wow, one out-of-office Democrat. Can you spell f-a-i-r-a-n-d-b-a-l-a-n-c-e-d?)
Will Oval Office address inspire Democrats?
Drama unfolds in Alaska primary race (who, besides the 600k Alaskans, gives a rat's tail? "Boxer TKOs Fiorina" would be a much better, and more relevant, headline/news clip)
Tina Brown on politics, Iraq (pic of W. Bush)
Shadegg on Arizona congressional race
Shakeups in the Alaska midterms
Nevada unhappy with Angle (our first GOP-challenging video. kudos)
How can Dems bridge enthusiasm gap? (quickly followed up by an anti-Democrat message. whew!)
Protesting at polls
Glenn Beck, Palin have anti-tax “dream”
Dems growing pessimistic over midterms? (Notice how all Democratic coverage is crappy "analysis" -- no good interviews?)
2010: Big name Republics in the midterms (pic of anti-Obama ad – ObamaCare Wrong Way. Bonus check to reporter for re-airing GOP ads free of charge!)
Channeling voter anger key to midterm success?
Voter anger on display
Rubio looks towards November
Sestak on fight for Keystone State
Honestly! No Democrats featured. No Democrat’s names. No Democratic agenda items?
And which voters are they talking about? Only tea baggers. No Democratic voters interviewed.
It’s like the Democratic party doesn’t exist. It’s like the 60 million active Democratic voters don’t exist.
THIS is how you sway public opinion – you pretend that there is only one game in town. THIS is a lot more effective, really, than the GOP's FOX network. I'm a Communications and Politics major -- we learned how to do this. I'm sure the college graduates we see on TV learned how to do this too -- this is how you create your own reality and overturn the people's choice.
And don’t you love how NBC replays GOP anti-Obama ads for free, as a service to the GOP?
Ann Curry is sitting there looking embarrassed, and well she should – because this line up of coverage and video is an embarrassment. It's absolutely disgusting. NBC reporters should be ashamed.
Who in the hell do you think you're kidding. The MSM has been in Odummo's pocket from day one and Chris Mathew's leg still hasn't quit "quivering".
Very well put. The media is definitely not objective.
Annie -- who do you think *you're* kidding? I just copied down the actual headlines on MSNBC. Go check them out for yourself. I provided the URL for you.
The data is what it is. I know it sucks when reality doesn't support your hypothesis, but I didn't write those headlines -- I just reported them. Take it up with Chuck Todd and Co if you don't think he's being MSM-Obama-centric enough for your mythology.