Congressional Republicans haven't had an easy time reconciling their pursuit to extend the Bush tax cuts -- even for families earning more than $250,000 per year -- with their stated desire to also reduce the size of the deficit.
After all, the Treasury Department estimates that extending all the Bush tax cuts would carry a price tag of nearly $3.7 trillion over 10 years. Extending the tax cuts for those making less than $250,000 would cost $3 trillion over 10 years.
Here was Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on "Meet the Press" on Sunday:
MR. GREGORY: But my question is how do you pay for an extension of tax cuts? Because if you're concerned, as Republicans say they are, about cutting spending and the deficit, you have to acknowledge that tax cuts are not paid for.
SEN. McCONNELL: Well, what, what, what, what are you talking about paid for? This is existing tax policy. It's been in place for 10 years. What they're talking about is raising taxes, impacting 50 percent of small business income in the middle of what most Americans think is a recession. That is not a responsible thing to do in my judgment.
And here was House Minority Leader John Boehner today in his economic speech:
Listen, we need to have an honest conversation with the American people about the scope of our fiscal challenges -- that means everything from short-term commitments to long-term commitments.
It is an act of bad faith -- and bad judgment -- to start this conversation by imposing job-killing tax hikes on families and small businesses.
Failing to rein in these debts is our own fault -- both Democrats and Republicans. We should not punished unemployed workers and small business owners for our inability to make the tough choices we were elected to make.
We need to start looking at every government program and ask ourselves: Is it right to force our grandkids to pay for this? As Mitch Daniels, the governor of Indiana, recently said: "You'd really be amazed at how much government you'd never miss."
The possible equivalent of what Boehner was saying: I know I need to lose a significant amount of weight, but let me hit the all-you-can-eat buffet at Shoney's before I start that diet.


Yep, cut taxes for the rich, that was a real winner back in the day! Didn't that help create this mess too? Well, we can truely see who the right has tried to cheat now(actually all along) the American people!
They are not the party of the American People, they are the party of the RICH American People.
How exactly is it that you figure keeping more of your money instead of sending it to Washington is cheating the American people? You do realize that 3 Trillion of the 3.7 Trillion would be for people making less than $250,000, right?
Washington has spent money on two wars off the budget. Now we have to pay for those wars somehow. How do you suggest we pay for Bush's wars? Should we continue to borrow money from COMMUNIST China? What about selling savings bonds like we did to pay for other wars? How about tax increases or return to the pre-Bush tax cut days so we have the money to pay back the cost of our wars? We have already cut entitlement programs to the point that they are nearly unable to do their work but the Republicans don't care about the elderly or the poor who depend on those programs they only care about the wealthy who can afford a small tax increase.
Example: A single mother making 30K a year pays, lets say 10% in taxes. We'll use 10% to make the example easier. And we have a millionaire who makes 30 million a year. If the millionaire has to pay 10% in taxes too will he still be able to own a nice house, a couple of cars, a yacht, a summer home in the Hamptons, nice clothes, plenty of great food? Yes, of course he can. But that single mom paying $3000 a year in taxes means that she is going to have to struggle even more just to pay the rent let alone buy medical insurance for her kids, own a decent car, put good food on the table (fruit loops for dinner because it is all that they have to eat) and clothing she was given for the kids or bought at the thrift store.
A small tax increase for those who make more than most of us do is hardly going to hurt them. The tax cuts have NOT created any new jobs. The fact is that we are in the worst financial state since the great depression because we have no money to pay for anything and those who are keeping their own money aren't spending it on job creation but, perhaps, buying that new yacht or going on junkets to play golf in Scotland or other selfish persuits.
There is a story about a little old widow woman who had a small coin in her purse called a mite. In the temple she offered this small coin that she could have used for her own pleasure, to buy food, clothing or something else, as a contribution to the good works of the temple. Meanwhile the wealthy among the congregation made it well known that they were giving hundreds of thousands of whatever the money is called but in the end the one who received the most blessing for their contribution was the one whose contribution hurt the most when considering one's pleasures. The wealthy could afford the donations of thousands and not worry about food, shelter or fine clothing but the little widdow woman gave from her heart, that which she could scarsely afford and got the most blessings for it.
Today, that widow woman would be called a Democrat while the others would be Republicans.
Adler,
There is so much to say about you post, but I'll try to keep it short and sweet.
Your example of the single mother making 30K is a perfect example of exactly why the tax cuts need to stay in place - because right now she IS paying 10% and when they expire, she will be paying 15%. However, the "evil" millionaire making the 30 million in you example is not currently paying 10%, they are paying 35% and when the tax cuts expire they will be paying 39%. So, doing the math we can see that Mom pays about $3000 in taxes now and will have to pay $4500 starting January 1st, whereas the "evil millionaire" is currently paying $10,500,000 and will be paying $11,700,000. This means that Mom will incur a 50% increase in her taxes and have $1,500 less to spend in the marketplace, reducing economic activity. The "evil millionaire" on the other hand will only have an increase of 11%. I'll let you explain to Mom why the Democrats are raising her taxes by 50% but only raising the rich guys taxes by a meager 11%. Of course, since she'll be too busy trying to keep things going to deal with it all, she won't realize until she goes to file her taxes the next year that her child tax credits have been reduced - and then you can explain why the Democrats did that too her as well. So, if you think that Mom is struggling now, she will be in serious shape when the tax cuts expire.
I agree that the tax cuts did not create jobs. What they did do, however, was allow businesses to keep more of the money they made and use it to expand their businesses, buy new equipment, hire new workers, etc. From the time they were implemented, through 2007, unemployment stayed around 5.5% and the economy continued to grow. Without the tax cuts, the recession that occured following the bursting of the Internet bubble would have taken much longer to recover from and the growth rate would have been much less than what it was.
As for your story of the widow, I am in complete agreement - someone that gives what little they have, from the heart, is by far greater than giving just a portion because it is expected. However, it has nothing to do with taxes, which are not given, but rather they are taken. The money that each of us makes is ours, we earned it. But, the government "takes" a portion of it from us - we do not "give" it to them. The fact that you can go to jail if you don't pay makes this obvious.
The truth of the matter is that the widow could be either a Democrat or a Republican - it is purely a matter of what is in your heart when you give. To assume that a person cannot give with a pure heart simply because they have money is just wrong.
JC, how do we pay for those tax cuts, that is still the question? The republican party has been railing about increased spending and still will not say how the cuts will be paid for. They are on the edge of hypocrsy asking to extend those cuts and not saying how to pay for them. You can't fix one problem by creating another. The republicans need to "man up" and either explain themselves or "shut up".
No more shenanigans. I do not trust them to do what they say they will do. Past experiences are enough for me. They don't deserve another chance from me. It is all over!
K Mac,
There is only one answer when it comes to paying for the tax cuts - cut spending. It's really quite obvious, but it will also be painful. The Democrats continue to believe they can spend their way out of the recession, which has the potential to add the the deficit even faster than the tax cuts (i.e. 1 Trillion plus per year over 10 years will definitely be larger than the projected 3.7 Trillion). And, if the tax cuts expire and cause the economy to weaken further, the spending is likely to increase.
The real question is what spending cuts to make. Both sides of the aisle have their "cherished" programs, departments, etc. that they will scream about, but I think the reality is that hard decisions have to be made.
Personally, I think the easiest way to tell if a Republican is serious is if they are willing to make cuts in Defense spending (other than the war efforts) and for a Democrat are they willing to talk about cuts to the Department of Education. My belief is that a flat percent across the entire budget is what is required. Exactly how much, I don't really know.
What I do know is that we cannot continue on the course we are on. It is madness and unsustainable. Spending cuts have to be made.
According to the CNN survey, only 53% of self-identified moderates back extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. Only 9% of liberals said the same thing. Conventional wisdom would hold that Republicans would be the chief proponents of the proposal. But only 50% of conservative respondents said they want tax rates for the wealthy kept in place -- the same percentage of Republicans support a full extension of the Bus tax cuts.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/20/only-50-of-gop-supports-e_n_689326.html
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/19/rel11g.pdf
If Obama and the Democrats extend the Bush tax cuts for families earning more than $250,000K and Obama does not appoint Elizabeth Warren to lead the New Consumer Bureau then Obama should be a one term president and the Republican's should control the House and Senate. That maybe harsh but the Dems have become Bush lite (right of the center).
As Mitch Daniels, the governor of Indiana, recently said: "You'd really be amazed at how much government you'd never miss."
What you really would amaze you is how little we would miss Mitch Daniels.
Truth be told they probably need to repeal the tax cuts for everybody, especially the rich, because they have more they can spare. The argument, they are already in place, doesn't make sense, when they are not paid for. If we repeal them, then we don't have to keep paying interests on them. Let the rich pay their fair share. When you make more, you pay more. Those CEO'smaking millions of dollars, need to pay more taxes, and if others make more they need to pay more, that is just how it works. We all need to help. That is being patriotic. Those billionaires who are giving money to charity, let them help pay off our debt to China, and stop sending our jobs over there, that would help even more. The Repubicans want to have it three ways, lower the debt, let them keep their tax cuts, and make the poor, middle class pay for it, cut their food stamps, and social security.
Let the rich pay their fair share? Who do you think is paying the majority of the taxes now? And, what do you mean "they have more they can spare" - in who's opinion? Why should they need to pay more - so you don't have to? When it gets right down to it that's really what it's all about, isn't it? After all, why should you have to pay the same rate if you can get somebody else to do it.
I suggest that if you are going to use a moniker like that, you should at least get your facts straight - the Democrats are the ones that recently made cuts to the Food Stamp program.
You are correct that Republicans want three things, but not quite what you have listed - and they go hand-in-hand: lower the debt, reduce the tax burden, and most of all reduce spending. History has shown that lowering the tax burden increases tax revenues, which means that raising the tax burden will decrease tax revenues. It is really quite simple - if you pay more taxes you have less money to spend. If less money is spent, the economy is weakened and the government collects even less taxes. The real problem though is spending - we just cannot continue to spend and spend and spend with no end in sight. It may hurt in the short term, but if we do not reduce our spending, at some point we will never be able to recover.
JC-you are right. The rich continue to spend, spend, spend, on themselves. That's exactly what allowing the tax cuts to run out is all about. If the rich pay more taxes they will have less to spend on themselves. So far, they are not spending it on anything else but themselves-like say maybe jobs for others or fair wages for the workers they already have. Unfortunately, many (not all) of the rich are exploit the lower and middle class to the point we no longer have an democracy, we have now become a plutocracy. Just as socialism can so to far, so can capitalism. Unfortunately those in control of the most financially can no longer be trusted to keep themselves in balance. The lower and middle classes have been financially raped and pillaged until we have had ENOUGH. Unfortunately, since they won't regulate themselves, we have little other choices but to allow the government to do it for them-in the form of tax increases.
Red Maple,
I believe that regulation, within reason, makes sense, but to suggest that tax increases are regulation is just a way to feel good about taking somebody else's money. To be regulatory in nature, it would need to be something like fines. Stiff penalties for poor behavior will have a significant effect on corporate actions. However, hiring is not something that can be regulated. Employers must have the right to hire according to the needs of the company.
The real problem right now is that the rich are not investing and expanding because the economy is in the tank. I mean really now, if you had money would you take a risk on opening a new company with an untested product at this time? Not if you had any sense.
Personally, I would rather have the rich buy their yachts and have their parties. Keeps the ship builders working and the party planners and caterers too. May not be as good as starting a new company, but it doesn't hurt. If nobody bought things that require a lot of money, we would certainly lose a lot of jobs.
JC,
The economy is in the tank precisely because the big businesses are not hiring, the majority of the people do not have the money to spend, how do they get the money? They have to be hired! It is a circular argument, but the fact is that the ones with the money, the 5% with 70% of all wealth in the Nation, MUST hire in order to get us out of this mess. The wealthy are sitting on record cash reserves, some 1.8 Trillion, not to mention some hundreds of trillions in stocks, bonds and the money market. They are the ONLY ones who are ABLE to hire and the only ones with the money to invest in this Nation. By not hiring they continue to make the economic mess worse, the only way out is for them to start hiring, the returns will be better for them if they do. Yes, they will have to get off their obscene mountains of money to do so and open up the money spigots, then money will start to flow back to them again as people have the money to spend. It is just that simple. The wealthy must do their part, not wait for things to get better, because until they start hiring and investing in jobs, it CANNOT get better!
B Honest,
In a very general way, I agree with you. But, part of the problem is that the general mindset of people seems to equate "tax the rich" with them hiring - which couldn't be farther from the truth. The cash reserves you are referring to are not even taxable at this point (unless the government starts taxing money that has already been earned - god forbid). So, the only way to get that money back into the economy is to get them to invest.
The problem though is that they don't really see that as reasonable to do that at this time - and who can blame them. Capital investments in emerging markets often result in losses and with a down economy, it makes it that much more likely that a new venture will fail. Throw on top of that an increase in the Capital Gains taxes (when the tax cuts expire) and it becomes very difficult to justify risking any significant capital - the risk versus return on investment are pretty dismal at best. In fact, they might have better odds if they visited the local casino.
As for existing companies expanding their payroll, companies are in business to make money - not to hire people. Companies are not going to hire just to "feel good", they will only hire when there is a need to do so; i.e., business increases. To expect them to do anything else is simply foolish - it isn't going to happen.
People don't want to acknowledge the truth. The truth is that the wealthy are not going to risk their money when the government puts forth what they perceive to be an anti-business agenda. They can see what is down the road (increased taxes, increased health care costs, more regulations, etc.) and it simply doesn't make sense. Unless and until the administration pulls back and tones down the rhetoric and softens their agenda, I would expect the money to stay on the sidelines.
Once and for all will folks please define "wealthy". I don't want to support a policy and find out they are talking about me and not the other guy!
If someone else signs your paycheck you probably are not wealthy. If you mark paydays on your calendar the tax cuts probably don't effect you.
If the Democrats allow the Tax cuts to Sunset then it will Affect all Americans. If the Democrats extend the Tax cuts for all but the 2% as you point out Dont Throw Stones.. then the increased Taxes will Affect all Americans.. Because as you point out They are the Business owners the ones that write your Check.. They will just increase the cost of the Goods and Services that they provide and the Consumer will pay the higher prices...
steve as you correct if indirectly point out this is s Republican tax increase already on the books. Let's face it they coundn't pay for it 10 years ago and want to increase the debt by $3.7 trillion. Such fiscal responsibility! Simply amazing. Profligate wasters of my tax dollars.
Ed
I understand that if the Democrats allow the Bush Tax cuts to Sunset that the Govt will then Start taking more money from people that Earned it to pay for the Deficts that the Democrats have Created with the Budgets they passed.. I understand that you need someone to pay for the hole the Democrasts have dug us into..
Ed: If the Government would cut spending and programs there would not be a deficit. The tax cuts on the books are just ficticious numbers amounting to what the Gov thinks they will not collect.. If you run your home budget correctly as less money comes in you also spend less!!! not more as the Gov has chosen to do! If you were told your job was going to be gone (What would you do)? Go buy a new car or house or go home look for ways to cut expenses and look for a new job? The Gov needs to tighten their belt just like we have been forced to do..
scott
so what would you cut? Environmental inpectors, prisons, homeland insecurity, the military, medical care? isn't the issue that we all have sacred cows and only want to see the other guy's cows gutted? somehow my cow's more sacred than yours. each side doesn't have to win outright all they need to do is strategize for a stalemate -- kind of like playing for a draw in chess. i'd say as a society we should first identify those things we want to provide and determine the cost and then tax to meet the required amount. each "side" might get a certain amount to spen regardless and then the rest would be negotiated -- at all levels of govt frd, state and local. No there would be a way to get everyone interested in their communities.
Steve,
BS. Why is it your side says you don't want to pass this debt off to your children and grandchildren and you never acknowledge that the deficits your side ran up are the ones our generation are addressing. You are trying to apply Last In (Debt) with First Out Taxes. The reality is that we move out the Republican deficits with the Republican sanctioned sunset effect. Only seems 'fair'. But what would you know about fair?
Mark, this is way to funny but true, however this phony crap about the deficit is a creation of the dopes of nope GOBP who drove this country in the ditch. Now they have the Fix news wing of the GOBPfear machine in high gear, it's going to backfire this time. Despite what the polls say we are fired up and will continue to get more fired up as Nov approaches, Kirsch be cool, we can fight like dems when we finish the job in Nov.These reichwingers are dangerous for this democratic republic.
The possible equivalent of what Boehner was saying: I know I need to lose a significant amount of weight, but let me hit the all-you-can-eat buffet at Shoney's before I start that diet.
And we now see the effects of the Policies of the Democrats and how they are driving the US Economy down.. Housing sales down by 27 percent.. The dow Dropping and will continue to drop in the forseeable Future.. as we speak the dow is almost below 10000, all the Stimulus package has done is stall the inevitiable.. we are on our way to a Double Dip Recession at the hands of the Obama Administration and the Democrats.. This is all on Their plate..
Nice try drooler, this problem goes all the way back to Ronnie the dip s#$t.
Ahhhhhhhhhh.. yes.. thank you for your kind insult.. i would expect as much from you
bush and his cronies in congress ran up 12 trillion in debt. that is a fact. obama has passed a health care bill that is fully funded. a fact. bush and the republicans did not pay for 2 wars, tax cuts, and a botched medicare drug plan. they put it on the credit card held by the chinese. obama's stimulus, according to the CBO saved 3.5 million jobs. a nonpartisan fact. you buffoons who get your BS from limbaugh and beck can bleat and bellow all you want, but those are the facts. Just as clinton had to clean up after Bush I, and then left a surplus, obama is having to clean up after Bush II. The barn he is cleaning out is far bigger and far more full of manure. and you republican apologists, freaked out at being kicked out, can lie all you like, but those are the facts. what do they put in the kool aid you guys drink. also, you seem to have as much trouble with spelling and grammar as Bush did.
Lawrence O'Donnell's new program "The Last Word" coming in September on MSNBC @ 10:00 PM! Lawrence did a SUPERB interview last evening going through point by point, EXACTLY what the tax cuts are and aren't while interviewing David Cay Johnston.
TheZoo: http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/the-republican-2-step/:
Last night Lawrence O'Donnell sat in for Keith Olbermann on Countdown (MSNBC). This particular segment was on the Bush Tax Cuts that by law are set to expire the end of 2010. The out and out lying (and utter hypocrisy) of the GOP has hit a new level. Watching the clips with "Meet The Press" host David Gregory trying to get Mitch McConnell to answer the simple question of how the Republicans plan to pay for the Bush tax cuts if they would be extended was priceless. To give Gregory credit, he continued to push for an honest straightforward answer.
What the Republicans want you to believe, and what they don't want you to know about the Bush 'Tax Cuts' for the rich that by law are set to expire this year.."
From last night's program:
McConnell's response (to a question by David Gregory on MTP)?:
"You're talking about current tax policy. Why did it all of a sudden become something that need [garbled] quote "paid for"..?"
Following this clip, Lawrence O'Donnell says this:
Of course the tax hike already scheduled for next year was written into law ten years ago by Republicans when they deliberately limited the cuts to ten years, which they had to do, because Senate Rules required them to pay for them if they lasted MORE than ten years. And in fact, Senator McConnell has suggested how he WOULD pay for tax cuts for the rich.
He voted early this month for a bill that would "decrease spending as appropriate to offset such permanent [tax-cat] extension." How? By cutting from Finance Committee spending, which MEANS cutting Social Security and Medicare, the only things in Finance Committee jurisdiction that COULD be cut to pay for the tax cuts. A tax cut that would make the rich richer, and could actually make it HARDER for small businesses to hire because increasing the deficit could, as it has in the past, raise interest rates making it tougher for small businesses to borrow."
TheZoo:
"Aside from O'Donnell's clear explanation of what is 'real' (and what isn't) about the Bush Tax cuts, I believe there is even more to this. I believe the GOP will push the notion that if the Bush Tax Cuts are allowed to expire, they will call this a huge tax hike in a time of Recession, and then gleefully run in 2012 against those pesky "Tax and Spend Democrats".. If Congress makes the tax cuts permanent, or tries to extend them somehow without paying for them (as Bush did..), then they will point the finger again and say how the Democrats created this huge deficit and put our economy at great risk for a major Depression by running up the deficit. Then, while licking their chops, they will try to insist that they must be paid for (even though McConnell tries to insist that they don't have to be paid for because they are already tax law) by going after Medicare and Social Security. This country's safety net. By going after the most vulnerable and in need in this country. That is what they have wanted all along."
TheZoo continued:
The Democrats have got to get real AND aggressive about this. They have to get in front of cameras and talk about how Bush gave the tax cuts to the very rich AND didn't pay for them—not 1 cent—and how he started two wars at the same time—on a credit card. The GOP credit card mentality, the same GOP who is wailing about fiscal responsibility now. Bush deregulated everything he could, including the banks. He unleashed this enormous environment of monumental greed and corruption that imploded our economy and threatened to destroy our country. All you have to do is look at the charts. Putting it in perspective, the line for this particular recession in comparison to past recessions, the lines goes straight down."
They(GOP & KKK) are using that money to pay certain media groups i.e. FOX to convince most of the fools in this country that all of this is Obama's fault. It was like this when he got into office on 1/21/09 because of the GOP!!!!! That's why they dont want the cuts ended.
They want RighteyWhites in there now to try to get him out in '12 because he's not 100% White and he is too intelligent. It wont happen though in '12. The GOP and KKK have no chance w/ (R)Mitt Romney & Sarah Palin(21st cent. Ross Perot running 4 the KKK)!!!!!
I am on the Right .. and i am not White.. this is the Fault of the Democrats and the Obama administration..
Steve,
So, the Obama administration did NOT inherit the deficit, debt and near depression??
Hats off to David Gregory and Lawrence O'Donnell for shedding light and exposing this idiocy to the light of day. But this country needs MORE journalists willing to ask hard questions--and KEEP asking hard questions.
For far too long mainstream media has thrown softball questions at Republican politicians without holding them accountable for their answers. Heck, they have their own national network now (Fox News). The horses are out of the corral now and it's hard to get them back in, but at least Gregory is making a weak stab at it. He should have pushed McConnell again.
Was elimination of the marriage penalty only for the rich? Was elimination of capital gains on a home I sold a couple of years ago only for the rich?
There is nothing in the law that precludes all of you that want higher taxes to not pay more to Uncle Sam.
BTW, If I was rich (and I am not) and I paid more in taxes, by god I would want to have a bigger say in the way government operates. Why the heck should folks that pay nothing be able to have a equal say in how governement is run!
How is this a "tightrope"? The GOP has displayed a true intellectual and practical dishonesty here and they deserve to be called out for it. Stop coddling them. The reality is simple: the GOP is a bunch of deficit frauds,
$3,700,000,000,000 that's a bunch these Repo hypocrits want to add to my kids debt legacy so their rich pals can but the 13th yaught-- way too sick for my taste. Seems everyone else has to play by different rules. The Bush Repos brought us to this point -- took them 8 years to crumble our economy and now whine Obama isn't fixing their mess fast enough and want a second chance to finish their debacle. It's more than clear their policies arte a disaster and only their personality disorders prevent them from admiotting their guilt.
Republicans understand that you democrats want to take more money from the American people to pay for the Deficts that the Democrats and the Obama Administration have created by passing the Budgets that they have passed.. We understand that you can't take Responsiblity for the over spending of the Democrats..and wish to blame it on Bush who has not been in office for over 1.5 years.... At some point you have to face the people.. And come novermber .. You will...
Steve
You get to answer why Obama only gets 18 months to make up for 8 years of Bu@!$%#e rule? You must be saying Obama is 6 times as smart. You Repos need to take responsibility for bringing our country to its knees both financially and politically. The tax increase that may come about next Jan. 1 was passed by the Repos and signed into law by the Repo in chief. It is a Repo tax increase and you and your ilk are asking the Demos to save your sorry butts. You need to take responsibility for this. You passed it. Only the senile, insane and young children fail to take responsibility: which are you?
ED.. Again.. .. You still are complaining about Bush. he has not been in office for 1.5 Years.. it is Obama and his administration that are the PROBLEM NOW.. not bush. Please.. Get over the fact that Obama is not all that you hoped he was.. He did not bring the Change you hoped he would. .. Its ok. .I feel your pain.. I understand that you can 't hold this Failed Administration Responsible for the policies they have enacted on the American People. ITS OK..
Steve
Kinda cool how you fail miserably to address my points -- 8 years vs. 18 months (with the steep downward momentum that took months to slow) and that the coming tax increase was passed and signed by you guys way before Obama was even a twilkle in the voters eyes. Please don't evade the real issues.
Obama is presidnet Ed.. that is the point you should be Addressing.. You live in the past.. you continue to blame someone that is not president anymore.. I am sorry that you can 't see past your Alliegience to Obama and the Democrat party.
Steve
Got ya -- it doesn't matter who caused the disaster it's Obama you to hold the bag. Go go to the cause -- 8 years of failed policies, 8 years of support for outsourcing our jobs, 8 years of catering to the 2% who make more than they can spend -- that's the cause. The damage was too great to remedy in a few months. Whopever is the cause is who shollud be held responsible. You didn't address the Repo tax increase they passed -- yet again. All you seem to do in bash Obama and are incapable of looking to root causes -- are you Boner Jr.?
Ed..
There you go again... blaming people that are Successful. We understand that you dont like Succesful people.. We understand that you want to take All the money away from Succesful people because you are jealous of what they have Achieved.. We understand that you think its the top 2 percent of the people in this country that you want to pay for all the Wants that you democrats want to pay vor. .WE republicans understand this.. We know that you think its right that the top 3 percent of the people in this country pay 56 percent of all the Federal Taxes.. We know that in your mind it is these people you HATE..
OK ya got me -- i'm not fond of the folks who sent millions of good jobs overseas to increase their profits (while screwing our own middle class), who spend billions on lobbyists to rig the "laws" in their favor (do you think they'd continue to pay lobbyists if they didn't get the return they want i.e. more money thay can spend), who skimp on safety to increase profits (BP, the mining industry, the food industry, etc.), who buy corporate welfare for pennies on the dollar, etc., etc. Not to mention the trillions in war debt you kept off the books like if you folks did for years. Before we get to Obama's debt we need to wade through trillions in Republican debt which skyrocketed pursuant to Republican policies.
Ed.. Bill clinton Signed nafta.. not a Republican. I understand that you think it was a republican. but it wasn't.. and it is the Fault of UNIONS that jobs have gone over seas.. The manufacturing jobs have Gone overseas because of the UNIONS.. Now. let me point out.. That from 2001 to 2010..The national debt rose by 7.9 Trillion dollars..when the republicans Held the congress the purse strings of this country they Ran up 2.8 Trillion dollars to the NAtional Debt.. from 2007 to the present. from the Time the Democrats took control of Congresss..The purse strings.. they have run up over 5 Trillon dollars of Debt... and we already know that the CBO has Estimated that the 2011 Budget will add at least another 1 Trillion dollars to the Debt.. Maybe and most likely More....Please spare me your outrage... ........
check your geography -- India isn't in North America -- and yes nafta was idiotic (also had massive Republican support) -- tho strange you want Bush to get a free ride after 18 months but still hold Clinton responsible for something over full decade ago! Obama's first bailout was agreed to prior to his election and the first two years were a result of fafiled Repub policies -- absurd to think that something as huge as the federal govt can turn on a dime. It's an aircraft carrier not a SkiDoo. I've belonged to unions in the past and found them good and bad but it's pathalogical to think they are responsible for jobs going overseas. When the corporatists can pay $1 a day (slave wages being a family value) in wages it diesn't really matter what we get paid here it's a little more than 10% of the minimum wage that no one can live on. Why do you hate the middle class so much? You certainly don't support us.
ed-1312771
Ed, you're on fire! Great posts. Steve, you gotta admit, Ed's right.
thanks Amy -- join in the fun -- although double teaming Steve seems unfair
ED. . it is the Democrats that hate the middle Class.. it is the Democrats that continue to strap the Middle Class with the Enormous Deficts that they are passing with the Budgets they continue to push on the American People. You dont understand.. that Business doesn't pay Taxes. the middle class and poor pay the Taxes thur Higher cost of Goods and Services provided by Business.. until you get that very simple fact thur your head you will never understand exactly where the debt comes from...
So unless you are gonna pass some law that says that Business cant raise the cost of the Goods and Services they provide after you ahve RAISED the TAXES on business. .it will always be the MIDDLE CLASS and POOR that suffer........
Steve,
Why were you not complaining during the Bush Regime about the HUGE deficit spending then, with the wars 'off the books' the Medicare Part D (donut hole and all) unfunded and tax cuts (set to expire really soon) on top of that, that was ALL deficit spending! The taxes going back up is NOT a 'tax increase' as you so quaintly put it, rather it is the taxes going back up to their previous levels AS PROGRAMMED BY THE REPUBS. WHY, with all of that deficit spending, do the REPUBS hate the middle class?? WHY are they blocking in Congress ANYTHING, even their own past ideas, from going forward, that would be helping the middle class reagain solid footing and help us all out of this economic mess that the REPUBS brought about during the Bush Years??
You are extremely disingenious and keep repeating the same old, tired, beat to death lies that we have heard too often. The Too-Rich-To-Fail Club is trying to turn the middle class into all poor so that they will HAVE to work for what little, slave wages that they will pay.
WHY DO THE REPUBS HATE THE MIDDLE CLASS?
Again .. B Honest
Democrats are the ones that hate the middle Class and the poor.. they promise you they wont Raise your Taxes on you and tell you they are gonna Raise Taxes on the Rich. IE the business owner. all the while knowing that the Business owner is gonna raise the cost of his Services and product the he knows you are gonna buy. They Lie to you thru Deception.. when they know that the Business owner is gonna raise the cost of his goods... and pass that tax on to you.. and you Continually Buy there lies. . you fail to see they dont care about you.. they just want more money from the people to spend however they want.. We Republicans know this nasty little Secret and thats why we are Against it. we are trying to protect you from the Democrats that just want more money to spend..
Now these are the Facts.. You have been informed as to how the Democrats get the Middle Class and poors money. All the while they Demonize business when infact it is them that is gonna get at your money one way or another..
Steve,
it does NOT matter How many times you repeat your lies, they are still lies, and no one is buying them! The Repubs are not trying to 'protect the middle class' they are trying to end them as fast as possible funneling all of the money to the Already-Too-Rich-To-Fail. You did NOT answer any of my questions at all, just repeated the same old lies Yet Again. You do not seem to get it that NONE of us believe you whatsoever because we have SEEN the Repubs in action, and they are the very ones who spent so much that it ballooned the National Debt to ungodly levels, and are trying to blame, like you, the Dems instead. Like I said, we are NOT buying it!
I dont need to answer any of your Questions. they are irrelavant... you fail to be Educated.. I have tried and you still think the Democrats care about you.. but please continue to vote for them . They will keep you enslaved to them thru Economic Slavery.. its how they operate.... but come Novermber when you see that the Majority of American people have Seen thru the Lies that the Democrats have been telling you .. the people will speak in Novermber.. and you will be Crying.. but please keep depending on people that just want to take your money.. they dont care about you..
No Steve, I fail to be brainwashed by people such as yourself. It is the Repubs who have worked very hard for economic slavery and their last Admin is the greatest proof of that, along with the present Repubs in Congress making sure that nothing is done to help the Americans on Main Street while they work hard for Wall Street. You are plain laughable, you are telling folks to vote against their own best interests like you actually believe it. History is actually against you, and November will be a telling time for our Democratic Republic. The Right has lied way too much for most people to stomach, and only the truly uneducated or ones with a stake (read the wealthy), and those who have ALWAYS voted Repub will do so, the rest of us, the greater Majority, will vote against the Repubs. Sure, the red states have things locked in with all of the local media telling the same lies 24/7 but there are still a lot of old style Repubs who are totally disgusted with the present leadership of the Repub Party as it is now, and will either refrain from voting, or vote Dem instead.
It does not matter how often nor how loud you repeat your lies, they are still lies and recognizable as such! Your arguments are irrelevant and I find your conclusions facile and ignorant of real life. I ran my own business until forced by health reasons to stop.
BTW, as an example, you go on and on about the Income Tax going back to where it was 10 years ago, that is NOT the Business tax, but the Personal Income Tax, so there is NO reason for a business owner to raise his prices, he is still going to take home considerably more than any of his employees. He can Afford to pay those taxes, his employees likely cannot!
My analogy would be that Boehner is saying: I really know that I should quit drinking--and I will, right after Happy Hour.
Kind of like Karl Wallenda's final performance. Just sayin'.
David Gregory Is Doing An “Outstanding Job” On MTP On This Issue Don’t Short Change Him………………………….Let’s Give All The Conversation In Its Entirety Not Just A Sound Bite!
First Read Should Have Been All Over This Issue 2 Weeks Ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Earlier this month, Reps. John Boehner (R-OH) and Mike Pence (R-IN) appeared on Meet the Press and were unable to explain their desire to extend the Bush tax cuts for the richest two percent of Americans with their rhetoric about deficit reduction.
“Listen, what you’re trying to do is get into this Washington game and their funny accounting over there,” Boehner said, when asked if Republicans planned to pay for extending tax cuts for the rich.
Sunday,
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) ran into the same trouble with MTP host David Gregory, and scoffed at the very notion of paying for tax cuts.
“Why did it all of a sudden become something that we, quote, ‘pay for?’” McConnell asked.
MCCONNELL: What are you talking about, paid for? This is existing tax policy. It’s been in place for ten years. [...]
GREGORY: For a final time, I’ll go back to my question which is,
the extension of the tax cuts would cost $3.2 trillion.
That’s borrowed money, that adds to the deficit.
Do you have a plan to pay for that extension?
MCCONNELL: You’re talking about current tax policy. Why did it all of a sudden become something that we, quote, ‘pay for’?
In addition to incorrectly stating the effect that the expiration of the cuts would have on small businesses,
McConnell basically summed up the Republican approach here, which is that cutting taxes for the rich is either free or worth exploding the deficit to implement.
In reality, extending just the tax cuts for the richest two percent of Americans — which President Obama has proposed allowing to expire — costs $830 billion over ten years and $36 billion next year alone.
This week, the Washington Post excoriated Republicans for almost unanimously backing a proposal by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) that would permanently extend all of the Bush tax cuts, calling it “a chilling sign of what a number of lawmakers believe passes for fiscal responsibility.”
Of course, maybe McConnell and Senate Republicans simply agree with former Vice President Dick Cheney’s pronouncement that “deficits don’t matter
The Govt doesn't Borrow money from the American People.. They confiscate it because they can't live with the Tax Revenues that are actually coming in.. Blame it on the over spending Democrats in Congress that have passed the Budgets that have infact Created these Deficts.
Steve-
I don't think you really know what you're actually talking about. Listening too much to Beck and Limbaugh? Sounds like it. Please pull your head out of the sand. Boehner and McConnell are talking in circles because they don't have any answer in regard to the tax cuts. Have you read the actual interviews that have been posted? Does any of that really make sense to you?
Dee..
I Understand that you dont like republicans. and you will Continue to Blame Republicans for all that the Democrats have Done.. the Republicans have not been in Power for 3.5 years in Congress.. and have not held the Presidency since Jan of 2009.. It is now late in the year 2010.. I am sorry that Obama and this Democrat Congress has not lived up to the HOPE and CHANGE they promised you..
Considering that the wealthy ONLY got their wealth because of the workers and the society that allowed them to do so, they need to be giving back to those workers and society as well, that is what taxation is all about to begin with. Consider also that the top 5% of the population wealthwise own/control some 70% of ALL the wealth in the Nation, they are the ONLY ones with the money to be ABLE to pay taxes. If they want to lower their own tax burdens they should be hiring and paying their workers true living wages, ones where a single worker can raise a family on comfortably. Then the 'lower classes' will be able to pay taxes as well, until then the rich will have to bear that burden. If they do not want to pay higher tax rates they need to get off their obscene mountains of money and hire. THEY are holding up the economic recovery all by themselves and crying 'Uncertainty' when the only uncertainty out there is that of the poor uncertain where their next meal will come from, whether they will get a job and praying that they do not become so sick that they end up in the hospital and lose their homes because of it.
If the Repubs would quit obstructing Congress and stop voting NO and filibustering everything that could and would be helping Americans get out of the economic hole that we are presently in then ALL of America would be doing much better. But the Repubs and the Too-Rich-To-Fail Club are intentionally holding back the recovery so they can point their fingers at the Dems and say "See, they have done nothing" when it is the Repubs obstructing and the Wealthy not hiring that is the true cause of our economic mess.
MOST Americans are NOT being fooled, and will show that clearly come November!
B Honest...
Come november we will See.. I have a Feeling its not gonna come out the way you hope it will.
This disgusting old relic really needs to be voted out ...if they vote this "cracker " back in they deserve to lose their jobs ..houses...etc
Democrats like myself need to get out there and talk about what the Republicans are trying to do,,,what they have done, and what they will do if not stopped. Voters should be reminded hour by hour what the last Republican Administration did to this country and more importantly, what they want to do again,,more of the disastrous Bush years,,disastrous to all but the upper 2% which was their game plan all along. We as Democrats cannot sit back and assume out politicians will do this for us, we need to be heard, seen and understood, we need to repeatedly remind voters of who got us into this mess, we need only to state "fact", which the right runs away from, they cannot deal with truthful talking points. As November gets closer the talk should get louder and more frequent, the right has Fox news for their loud speaker,,we the voter have the constitution and fact behind us, we need to make this known and understood.
If you are a Democrat , join a local group and get behind our party, do your part no matter how small, the results will be a better country for all the people, "not just the chosen few at the top". Speak up and be heard,,let it be know that this country is for the people and not a country club for the rich. Come join me and other Democrats in stopping the elite right from taking over and making this their toy to manipulate at their will. Be heard, state the facts, you will feel proud when the results of your work come true,,i did in 2008 and look forward to doing more in 2010 and beyond, be heard not silent, it is our future that we fight for.
we need to let the tax cuts expire for everyone. we should all suffer some for these ill advised and irresponsible tax cuts that bush pushed thru without being paid for. the drunken sailor republican spendthrifts of the bush era are back. they doubled the federal budget in eight years and increased the bureaucracy 4 fourfold and started 2 wars they couldnt and dont want to finish. their big business partners are making too much money supporting the wars. its obvious that this lame republican leadership has a secret plan that they cant discuss except at a bar or golf course.
CUT & PASTE PIECE...Jon Stewart continued his coverage of the 'Ground Zero Mosque' debate last night, focusing on Fox News' incongruities harder than he ever has. In a segment called "The Parent Company Trap," Stewart shared with his viewers how Fox News' plan to "follow the money" from mosque builder Imam Rauf to terrorists will be a tricky one because it leads right back to Fox News.
Stewart showed clips from his show last week, in which he mocked Fox News for playing a dangerous game of association based on speculation, and wherein Fox continued to mention a nameless man with ties to Imam Rauf through the "Kingdom Foundation." It turns out the man they are referring to but never name is Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, one of the biggest shareholders of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.
Showing a photo of the prince shaking hands with Rupet Murdoch, Stewart exclaimed, "That's right, the guy they're painting as a sinister money force OWNS Fox News." Stewart then used Fox's own logic to explain how the "terror mosque" is funded by Prince Alwaleed, despite being a co-owner of Fox News, and therefore funding terrorism. So, using their logic, Stewart said, "If we want to cut off funding to the terror mosque, we must, together as a nation, stop watching Fox."
But with this new information, one thing is now uncertain. Did Fox actually not know the name of the Kingdom Foundation leader or that he is a News Corp investor? Or did they, as Stewart said, "purposefully cover it up because it didn't help their fear-driven narrative?"
Stewart turned to John Oliver and Wyatt Cynac to figure out whether Fox is, in fact, evil or stupid?
Republican mantra, you help poor people by giving money to rich people, AKA tinkle down. And no, it's not their money just because they rip people off cut peoples pay, or ship their job elsewhere, or take outrageous risks and when they fail, tell the taxpayer "bail us out or stare down another great depression". Of course they still took outrageous salaries in the face of miserable failure. Then when they are given the money they just sit on it. Does the $50mil/yr CEO actually work 1000 times harder than the 50K/yr worker? No, they make money the old fashioned way, they steal it from poor people. Income like were talking about is made using the leverage of American workers,consumers,infrastructure and laws. Profits keep going up,up,up but the average workers pay just goes down,down,down. Remember what happened the last time someone rich and powerful told the people to eat cake. Your own parents, who paid far more in taxes would be ashamed of these ultra greedy Republicans of today.
mcconnell is one of the terrific liars of the congress. yes, of course, morons across the USA, you can pay no taxes and run no deficits, just like in real life. mcconnell's lie is so pathetic that it is hard to believe anyone would buy it. but he knows his audience, and the 1 in 4 jerks out there who believe the president is from kenya, uganda, the moon, whatever, will buy his junk. and they are not the rich buddies he is working for! what suckers republican voters are.
Creating deficits and debt is current tax policy??? If you want to bankrupt the country, I suppose it is! If you want to eliminate SS,Medicare etc, I guess it is!! ANY future tax cuts should go to the middle class and the cuts for the wealthy should be allowed to EXPIRE! The last 3 GOP presidents ran up about 80% of the current national debt; and they want to run up MORE!
So, in the coming election, the voters are SERIOUSLY thinking of putting these spendthrift bozos back in power in the Congress??? C'Mon..... WAKE UP!! Since reagan, we've SEEN what this version of the gop is all about: deficits, debt, tax cuts for wealthy people and deregulation that resulted in the most serious economic downturn since 1929!!!! GREAT IDEA!! Put the fox back in charge of the chicken coop so he can eat the REST of the chickens!!
Mark, you've hit the trifecta of liberal shilling today! Nice job. Do you plan to pursue a career in honest journalism any time soon?