Just the Facts Ma’am:

It’s August, most politicians are back in their home districts and a rather quiet day in Washington, so maybe it’s time to talk about the media. Now I have no quarrel with FR. Mark, Domenico, and Ali do an excellent job threading the needle between the conservatives and us progressives. So, as our President would say, “Let me be clear…” I’m not talking about our moderators.

However, I have little positive to say about Fox News. They just gave a million dollars to the Republicans; they allow Glen Beck to say the most outrageous, untruthful, inflammatory comments ever spoken on television. Close behind are Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity. Their bias is as big as a huge red elephant in the living room.

Well, what’s ol’ Ron going to say about MSNBC? I don’t watch Morning Joe and haven’t watched Chris Matthews or Ed Schultz for over a year. I suspect they haven’t changed much. I always thought Matthew’s timing was terrible as he never gave his guests time to respond. I don’t especially like media pundits like Ed yelling at me, so I don’t watch Ed either. Olbermann can be over the top, but the person I really like is Rachel Maddow. You don’t earn the Walther Cronkite Award for Excellence by being average. Rachel is intelligent, respectful, does her homework, and will give guests time to express their point of view, or say something stupid. (Looking at you Rand Paul).

I expect political bias on the Cable networks, but not ABC, CBS and NBC. These are the networks where many middle-aged, moderate Americans get their news. What I see is “canned news”: 5 minutes on the mosque controversy, 4 minutes on Afghanistan/Iraq, 2 minutes on BP oil spill, 4 minutes on the Obama WH, 5 minutes of rebuttal and a 2 minute “feel good” story.

What is totally missing is a fact check on what politicians say; the lies go unchallenged. Yes, untruths like “Obama is a Muslim,” Death Panels, Birther nonsense, taxing the rich will lower the national debt. Yet these networks spawned the likes of Chet Huntley, David Brinkley, Walter Cronkite and Edward R. Murrow. Politicians lied back then also, but real journalists like Tim Russert wouldn’t allow Republicans or Democrats to get away with it.

Herein are the lessons for today’s blogosphere pundits. Before you type a word, check the facts. Just because the person you are interviewing said it; doesn’t make it true. If you know what was said is false, it is your RESPONSIBILITY to set the record straight. The future of our country depends on it.

Feisty: Well said. I hope we hear an answer to your questions. It should be a slow news day, so time shouldn't be an issue.

There was a time when reasoned debate and civil discourse reigned. I don't remember much of that era, I think it ended right around 2004 or so. (Which could mean I was simply becoming more aware; that was the end of middle school/start of HS for me.)

Position papers have given way to sound bites and 140-character tweets. Anyone mind reversing this trend? I don't.

Ron and Feisty: Great post to end a very interesting week here at FR.

People in the media today (print, radio, TV, Web, Blogs, etc) have pretty much taken the position that they can say anything (true or untrue) with no fear of recourse. They hide the rhetoric of hate, fear, anger, racism, blatant lies and mistruths etc., behind the First Amendment or Freedom of the Press. They do this for political gains and to divide this country with no moral or ethical responsibly for the truth. The call themselves journalists but fact check nothing. When called out they even lie about the lie, deny it, and say it was misquoted or I did not mean that. They will do whatever it takes to avoid the responsibility that comes with Freedom of Speech. I think Keith Olbermann said it best and I posted his comments before. Below is a re-copy of a post I made several weeks ago Ron, because you raise a very important discussion and I support your thoughts 100%.

Keith Olbermann's special comment on the Sherrod debacle

It has become fashionable to dismiss Keith Olbermann as an over-the-top ranter—or as the MSNBC host put it himself, "a mirror image of that which I assail." But there was nothing over-the-top about his special comment about Shirley Sherrod. Every word he spoke was true. And the only thing that made his stance so remarkable is the abject failure of the mainstream media—especially this week—to accurately describe the source of the allegation against Sherrod, or to chronicle the long-term impact of the "complete perversion of journalism" practiced 365 days a year by Fox News (and the right-wing bloggers and radio hosts that make up the rest of this wackosphere).

The "enabling" Olbermann so accurately describes consists of a nonchalant attitude among most media swells toward Rupert Murdoch's main propaganda machine—"oh, that's just Fox"—melded with an inculcation by these same writers of the main "value" informing almost every judgment made in America today: if it makes a lot of money, it must be a wonderful thing.

The perversion of journalism produced by the fusion of these two attitudes has led us directly to the perversion of society we witnessed this week, when a Democratic White House and the nation's oldest civil rights organization both behaved in a precipitous, craven, and disgusting fashion, purely out of fear of how they would be treated by a band of vicious charlatans—men and women who are inexplicably treated by everyone from the New York Times to the Today show as if they were actual journalists.

As unethical the media is today, as pointed out by Mr. Olbermann, there appears to be a legal basis. Below is an excerpt from an article called “The Media can Lie” and is available on the web. Just Google it.

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

FOX asserted that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media. They argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves.

Anyone concerned with media must hear the alarm bells. The Bush FCC, under Michael Powell’s leadership, has shown repeatedly that greater media consolidation is encouraged, that liars like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter are perfectly acceptable, that to refer to the FCC interpretation of “editorial judgment” is to potentially throw out any pretense at editorial accuracy if the “accuracy” harms a large corporation and its bottom line. This is our “Brave New Media”, the corporate media that protects its friends and now lies, unchallenged if need be.

FOX claims that they have a RIGHT to lie?? If so, then why would I look to them, or any news organization for that matter, that also believes in this?? Where do we Americans go to get the truth??

Great post Ron and Feisty on a very very important topic that is also a pet peeve of mine and we see it every day here on this board with the constant regurgitations of false talking points and out right lies from across the aisle.

Thank You Feisty,

VERY good questions. There has been so much pure hatred, without any redeeming political converse, people representing outright lies, and yes, the threats to our President, that it makes reading here rather hard some days. I can understand people POLITELY calling for change, but for people to pour out pure hatred, with extremely racist overtones, is a no-brainier for being collapsed. Yesterday it almost seemed like we had a heavy percentage of those Birther/Muslim believers here, and some were particularly malicious about it. That is not civil discourse, that is plain ignorant ranting. If it was the Host's intention to show people that DO NOT believe that President Obama is not a Muslim just how bad some people are about it, such as just using it as an excuse to post nasty rants, then it certainly served it's purpose. But if they intentionally gave these people a forum to express their hatred in such a fashion, then I think that they need to re-think because many of these people have NOTHING meaningful to say, just hatred of the Black Democrat that is in office. Almost like they are whipping up the controversy on purpose. Of course, the folks that RAN the poll are certainly guilty of that as well.

I can only hope that the FBI is spending some time checking out the pages due to the threatening nature of some of the posts.

Thank you Feisty,

My sentiments exactly. I wondered what was happening yesterday as I looked at some of the comments...and decided not to engage!

I agree about the inflammatory comments, Fiesty-there is plenty of room, and there are plenty of ways, to criticize and disagree, without some of the more 'over the top' stuff that appears now and then.

Then again, it happened with the 'old' format, too.

I don't know what happens when you flag something, either, but since it's there, I'm sure it has some purpose. I would hope that a human then reads the post-we don't need a situation where EVERY post someone disagrees with is flagged-and you know as well as I do that there are those on both sides who would do just that!

By the way, I can't ge the italics off. . .

Civility and reasoned thought seem to be a lost art replaced with rudeness, hate and outrageous remarks. The more outrageous the comment, the more coverage it gets. The Tea Party protests covered the airways last year. The more disgusting the signs being waved as "free speech, patriotism", the more coverage the protest received. The Tea Party protests were not particularly large and there were counter protests there as well, but we saw little of the opposition and nonstop coverage of the outrageous.

First Read is the best and most intelligent blog site. It has excellent hosts and moderators who work diligently to provide topics for us to debate and discuss. Yet often there is no real debate. Someone writes a good, thoughtful post and is immediately attacked rather than debated. If as Americans we want to solve this country's problems and push our legislators to work to solve them rather than default into the realm of trivial, then the debate starts with our own ability to be civil, to respect each others views, to try understanding our differences and to find common ground. That should not be a difficult task but apparently too many would rather fill this terrific site with hate, loathing, and anger.

"As I’ve mentioned previously – I have a pretty high tolerance"

The only thing the Nasty Redhead has that is "high" is her self-delusional sense of her own importance.

lmao@u Nasty Redhead HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Thanks All!

As many know... I have NO problem playing in the pit... what I do have a problem with is the amount of threatening comments that are 'popping' up more & more frequently around here!

PS; Ron - l@@ks like you & I were on the same page this morning! Thank you for articulating exactly what I was thinking about the state of the media today! ;0)

PPS; NoJo - I totally disagree with your observation of it happening with the old format! Death threats were NEVER passed by the moderators!

Happy Friday! :o)

P.S. Thanks for asking the "tough questions" Feisty . . . maybe YOU should be a journalist!

Feisty, I know what you're saying. It's hard to believe this is what the GOP party has become. Their bullying and out and out contempt for people is truly mind boggling. But this is what the GOP has become. Their mentors are Limbaugh, Rove, Gingrich, Cheney. I'll take Keith and Rachel and President Obama any day of the week. And you and Ron and Clara and CA and Beverly and TRR and Rick and Anna Molly and Chris and US Navy and Jody and all the other Democrats here. Can't lose faith now. We've only just begun!

I am going to enjoy this drop dead beautiful Friday. I have the day off and am just sitting here quietly drinking my tea, and am not going to let anyone ruin this day for me. btw, what happened to the "ignore" button?

I thought this was about gubernatorial races. In the event that I may be right, I would like to point out that I have a horse in this race. The back end of the horse will win. That will be Sam Brownback.

In case you may be wondering about Brownback let me enlighten you a bit.

• Where does he stand? Wherever Mitch McConnell tells him.
• He is boilerplate Pro-life - the variety that would make a sane person's head explode.
• He is pro-gun - whatever that means, but all Republican copy writers actually have programmed a function key that puts this phrase in their copy - "I am pro-gun".
• He is the Senator who just hates federal deficits - HATES 'EM! - but has no problem with farm subsidies, loves ethanol, thinks Ft. Riley is wonderful, likes Leavenworth prison, and thinks tax deductions for buying salvation from the invisible guy in the sky is hunky-dory.
• So contemptuous is he of government intervention that he promises to create many more jobs in Kansas. (I thought that was a function of private enterprise, but what do I know?)

Eat your hearts out America. We Kansans are so magnanimous that we don't consign all our citizens who suffer from multiple personality disorders to mental institutions. We're putting this one in the Governor's Mansion.

Food for thought from all of you. Can I ask a question and maybe get your thoughts on it for me to mull over this weekend?

I know the right keeps harping on tax cuts as part of the solution but always seem to forget just how much they have been cut since Obama took office. Having said that, why do you think things, especially unemployment, have not improved much at all. It seems that any gains are offset by more loses in other sectors. one of the bits of information I came across was just how many of the same people are sitting on the board of directors for so many of the top companies. Any thoughts?

And to you Navy Vet, I hope you saw my congrats yesterday. It seemed awfully busy yesterday and you may have missed it, so just in case, congrats and I hope you and your wife and very happy.

Ron,

Thank you so much for re-emphasizing how very much our democracy NEEDS the media to function as an impartial (as much as possible) referee in a world where folks play so very fast and loose with the facts.

If we cannot get good information, we cannot make good decisions . . . its really just that simple.

Sean Doonan. It actually began when politicians like Reagan shifted the political debate to social issues which divide us, then Bush 41 administration's with Roger Aisles (sp) began the really negative personal attacks (now FOX's head hate fueler), and continued by Gingrich who shut out democrats literally by refusing them participation in any legislation.

No Joe. There's a little mouse-like square, third from right in the enter your comment tool bar, it says Remove Formatting. Hit that button. That's how I finally got rid of my computer's craziness yesterday.

Thanks for bringing up these questions, Feisty. I love FR--such a helpful round up of the important political stories of the day, a forum for discussion and exchange of views. But it does seem lately that the rancor has increased and civility has been forgotten. I will keep trying to ignore it when I can and hope that my hot button isn't pushed!

And I think the changes we see in the media, as Ron mentions, have a lot to do with the economics of the news business, especially with 24/7 media cycles. They have to draw viewers and, to a lesser extent, readers and they have to compete with other outlets with the same goals. Add this to the fact that some journalists are willing to be partisan for their cause and it combines to create a situation where journalistic ethics aren't paramount.

I do hope we can hear from our moderators about how we can all work together to make this site continue to be a place we want to keep up.

Fiesty

While I agree that the "decorum" around here recently has not been very civil I must also say that instead of telling the moderators that they should "ban" or "censor" other people's posts it maybe time for you to take a look in the proverbial "mirror" and ask yourself if you are one of the ones causing some of the problems here as well.

While freedom of speech is a right that liberals and conservatives should fight for to the death....EVERYONE (yourself and me included) MUST censor ourselves.

The Bible states that we are to treat others the way we wish to be treated (also known as the "Golden Rule")

If I may give you some advice (take it for what you feel it is worth) if you want others to be polite and nice towards you start treating them that way.

Now I realize that up until a couple days ago I could not be confused with someone who actually took tha advice to heart but recently God woke me up and reminded me that EVERYTHING I do is supposed to bring glory to Him. So that is what I am trying to do.

And just to show you that im not being "hollier than thou":

Feisty I apologize for anything hurtful that I may have said to you in the past and from this point forward no matter the subject matter I will try to be encouraging in my posts.

I think we're all in agreement that blind, hate-filled ranting has no place in rational discussion. The internet is filled with places for that sort of lack of reason. The regulars play full contact here, but at the end of the day we realize that it's all a difference of opinion, not some plot by Dr. Evil. That's even true of people from "the other side" who we believe to be particularly odious whether that's Karl Rove or Jeremiah Wright.

Thanks again to FR staff for stating plainly that the President is a Christian. Even though it shouldn't matter whether he is or isn't, it clearly makes a difference to some people and therefore truth matters. In addition to the lack of fact-checking in media today and the false-equivalence that assumes the truth is always midway between two positions (even when one is a lie) there's another issue that troubles me. That's the immediate adoption of politically loaded language by the press. I realize that it's seen as convenient shorthand by media practitioners, but a lot of this language is designed by political operatives to maximize the level of bias and steer the conversation. "Death Panels" is a particularly egregious example. It was deliberately chosen to take something beneficial--a conversation with a doctor in the end stages of life to help patients accept the inevitable and decide on a reasonable course of care--and turn it into something out of a horror movie.

Feisty, Ron, US Navy:

From the bottom of my heart I thank you all for such well reasoned, well thought, and well written posts about civility and journalistic integrity!! Couldn't have done it any better and I salute all of you. I salute all posters here who value what these folks have said and practice it on a day to day basis. I do not mean to leave anyone out (Clara and CA and Beverly and TRR, Rick, Anna Molly, Chris and Jody to name but a few--)

I sincerely hope that our moderators and others with journalistic power are paying attention.

Dave Walker,

I read a book a long time ago about Kansas but can't remmember the exact title, something about "WHat Happened to Kansas?" (in my bookshelf at home). It talked about Brownback back then and the man scares the heck out of me. He has Presidential asperations and is implementing his plan to get there. It involved going through the Senate and Governorship (is that a word?) and look where he's at.

The book did not paint a very flattering picture of the man but you could probably enlighten us further on the type of person he is. Tell us more than the typical Republican policies he agrees with, tell us about the man. Everyone needs to know more about this person as he is, unfortunately, emerging onto the national stage.

Matthew... good to see you... it's been awhile! ;0)

Thanks, Jody. It seems to have worked.

Fiesty-sorry, you and I were on different pages. I agree with you, of course, but I was also talking about some of the racist, homophobic, and otherwise bigotted remarks that sometimes show up. (remember that sleaze from Corpus Christi I called out on the old format?)

On the governors issue: yesterday, Quinnipiac, which has been questioned about its weighting since it always seems to favor the more liberal candidate, (they had the Connecticut democratic primary tied; it was decided by 7 points), had a poll out on my governor, Chris Christie.

He's really popular-a republican in a blue state. How did he gain his popularity?

He cut spending. Oh, there was the ususal whining and moaning from the groups that were cut-we can't survive, you're hurting the poor, blah, blah, blah. The taxpayers in this state have had quite enough, thank you very much. We're ready to cut spending, and cut deeply.

He's not done yet, folks-come January, the shackles put on him by our previous, Obama-approved governor, come off. There is going to be a spike in unemployment by state workers-among whom, oddly enough, he is pretty unpopular. Wonder why?

That is why the RGA used him as their poster boy this week.

I doubt very much that the media driven distraction about Obama's religion is actually going to have any effect on his polling numbers. People simply DO NOT CARE-particularly since I think a lot of them agree with me-the only religion he has is the worship of the man he sees in the mirror.

I realize that there is a move now among the democrats to shape this election as NOT a mandate on Obama's presidency. Good luck with that. Dems have been trying desperately, for months, to make this a 'local' rather than a 'national' election. Hasn't worked. I also understand that the DNC handed out talking points for candidates on HCR-mostly a list of 'DON'TS". As in, DON'T talk about it cutting costs. DON'T talk about keeping your plan and or doctor. DON'T talk about its impact on the deficit.

Seems most of those things are provably untrue.

Thanks, Feisty. I finally got this Newsvine thing working (part my procrastination, part their problem) but I've been out there watching on most days.

I'm really going to try and be civil but I'm not having much luck with that today. Those on the right seem to be finding my buttons.

This week I decided not to post because of the insanity that was brought out by the endless stories about the mosque. Obama is for the Mosque, he walks back from comments, Reid is for the mosque but not the location, Pelosi wants to investigate the funding of the opposition to the mosque. People belive Obama is a muslim, No really Obama is a Christian. Are any of these stories of national importance. Why do we trick our selves into thinking they are?

Even the one important post this week about the troops leaving Iraq, with the exception of the first handful of posts, turned hateful. I've enjoyed this post in my short time here but it is slipping into Yahoo blog territory.

Matthew, Houston

Yes the name of the book was called "Whatever happened to Kansas?" I've read it myself. In reality it could be called whatever happened to the USA? It speaks of how the GOP has used social issues to transform voters into lifelong republicans, voting against their own economic interests in the hopes that elected republicans will fight gay marriage, abortion choice rights etc. Remember when it quotes a republican official walking into a small Kansas precinct, admitting he has nothing in common with the precinct chair and doesn't understand why she supports him as she is a lower income elderly citizen on social security. His stance is to decrease SS payments but they are against abortion. He leaves west Kansas and drives back to his Kansas City, Kansas wealthy gated community.

Larry, Minot - Good to see you've found some reflection about posting. All of us should try to do better to not goad, taunt and villify each other and the other side. I voted for you if you can believe that.

FrankH, I play in that sandbox daily as I try to bring a business out of the recession and into growth. The answer is that the economy was so far into the weeds that it just isn't going to come back rapidly. The housing market became so overbuilt it will take 6 years at current build rates to bring availability of housing units back into balance with the natural increase in numbers of households. We have fewer trucks on the roads than any time since 1995. The financial sector came days from a full-blown depression. Consumer debt is being paid down from record levels in every measure of that term.

That's why I'm such a strong advocate that there be sufficient controls to prevent a reemergence of speculation on such a mind-blowing scale. Is our regulatory scheme perfect? Certainly not, but without some level of regulation the economy will regularly implode as it did until the Great Depression devastated the nation so dramatically those on the scene swore to never let it happen again.

hey, njnbnj,

We had a Republican spending cutter for a governor, too. We fondly refer to those years as "Blunt" trauma. Guess who his daddy is? Yep, Roy 'senatorial' candidate Blunt (and former Tom Delay whipping boy). Guess what happened to his son? He was a one termer who didn't even RUN for re-election.

PS. You failed to mention that Christie raised taxes, too. Not a terribly popular angle; but I dare say, a necessary one.

Hey, Clara? Blunt is up by 8 points, last time I checked.

Get used to calling him Senator.

Regarding Ron, Feisty and Mr. Retired Navy's comments:

I don't know precisely what I feel when I see posts repeating the talking points previously mentioned. Adamant claims in support of the idea the President is a Muslim, has no birth certificate, etc. confuse me more than anything else. The seemingly-righteous anger with which these posts are made has me wondering thusly: where did we lose our collective capacity to be intelligent thinkers?

How do you combat propaganda so vile and viral that no rationale argument will sway the mind that's bought into it? This issue runs very deep, and I fear we're past the point of no return. You're talking about the need to dismantle a system that's apparently legitimized and legalized lying to the public as a form of protected speech when reporting the news. You're talking about dismantling a system that cares more for its ratings and profit margin than contributing to the public discourse. The iconoclasts of the airwaves have made sensationalism the new de-facto deity.

My method of dealing with these posts is to mirror the barrage of irrationality they represent. How can you debate someone who'll merely repeat the same thing ad naseum, ad infinitum regardless of evidence or argument placed before them? Pointedly, in my experience, you can't, and the best you can hope for is to have a bit of private fun at their expense. That little irony seems lost on most.

But I can't help but wonder if replying and mocking them only emboldens them further. I can't help but wonder if engaging them on their level is only encouraging instead of debilitating.

The question is what to do? What does one expect, what can one expect? At the end of the day it all seems so futile; at the end of the day it seems like we're headed for a cliff regardless.

Well put Exodite!

Quite the conundrum indeed. You said it better than I could and I feel exactly the same way.

@Jody:

So this has been happening for almost 30 years? Let's hope it doesn't take another 30 to reverse the trend of incivility.

Exodite Dragon...Interesting Moniker!

You pose some very interesting questions and there are no easy answers. I think we are witnessing the consequences of 24/7 comments from Fox News, Limbaugh, Beck, et.al. and the negativity they carry with their message. Being snarky is not the answer and ignoring is not the answer either as a lie spoken over and over again becomes accepted as truth. Calling our President a Muslim is an example.

For me the only response is an educated, well-thought out argument, with the hopes that those reading and listening will see the difference between smear and thoughtful positions. For example, your post is thoughtful and deserves to be heard. Other posts on this board are simply ignored as nonsense.

Fiesty, this is great, you did a fine job asking these questions. Let us know what you hear from the powers that be. I wonder does the Secret Service ever read some of these postings from the deranged?

Matthew - Houston

Just for the heck of it, I went to Wikipedia. It is quite accurate and the picture is not too bad. For a less flattering picture, go to your dictionary and look up the word "Hypocrite".

Yellowdog-MarkD (thank you) is spot-on with his post. The book - "What's The Matter With Kansas" - does to some extent show a microcosm of the most dangerous element in the country - a group that includes the willfully ignorant, dogmatics, delusionals, know-nothings, and frankly - no, this is not an ad hominem attack - the just plain stupid. Fortunately for Kansas, if you look at a globe, you can see that a great deal of stupid has drained to the south, notably Oklahoma, although Texas has not escaped unscathed. For a more graphic representation, some maps are color-coded, the more stupid states are colored red.

But I digress. Please note that Brownback attended a state university, which if you are interested in such things, is one of the most beautiful campuses you will ever see. (You know how those state universities are - almost like those socialist thingies.) Farming background? Think USDA subsidies and food stamps. But of course, those are OK.

He's all over the place on the religion thing. That's his business, but it sure as heck isn't when he clamors for a theocracy, and that's what this clown wants. Remember, this is the state that produced the killer, Scott Roeder, who calmly walked into a Lutheran Church service and cold-bloodedly murdered Dr. George Tiller last year. This in the name of a loving God, the same God Brownback worships.

You should be scared by this guy. The smile and the smarmy bio belie the true demeanor of a politician who promises to ratchet the hatred up another notch in our country.

Exodite:

I agree with Ron. Your post was excellent and raises questions many of us here on this board try to understand. I think civil and open discussion is welcomed by most. I know Ron, Feisty and I and a bevy of others here will agree.

I sometimes re-post a thought or two to make a point since I can never remember who is on or when, especially some of the post here lately that have no content at all, but just hate and anger. I tend to ignore them as you are not going to have any type of meaning dialogue in that environment. Sometimes I respond (typically in kind) to let them know I am watching.

There is a lot of misinformation out there and people making believe that they are journalists. They are not and you can figure that out quick enough.

You post was well thought out and I enjoyed ready it. Send us some more and have a great weekend.

Exodite;

Thank you for the 'food' for thought... I REALLY enjoyed your post!

"First Read is the best and most intelligent blog site. It has excellent hosts and moderators who work diligently to provide topics for us to debate and discuss. Yet often there is no real debate. Someone writes a good, thoughtful post and is immediately attacked rather than debated. If as Americans we want to solve this country's problems and push our legislators to work to solve them rather than default into the realm of trivial, then the debate starts with our own ability to be civil, to respect each others views, to try understanding our differences and to find common ground. That should not be a difficult task but apparently too many would rather fill this terrific site with hate, loathing, and anger."

Jodi,

I was actually going to post a competing view - that the few well reasoned posts that seem to make it to this board are often sandwiched in between insults, either to a specific person or a political affiliation. This, of course, causes responders to attack the insult or respond in kind, rather than comment on any previously stated argument. That isn't to say that these boards aren't without merit - I'm here for a reason. I just think people get riled up and, given the anonymity of the internet, can't help themselves.

Exodite Dragon,

Well said. For what it's worth, I enjoy your more absurd responses over at Newsweek.

Exodite:

You are a hopeless liberal. The answer to your questions can be found within your post. You cannot bring yourself to accept the truth.

Please, tell me where you disagree with my assessment of your basic mindset. You believe that mankind can and will always better itself. You believe that the majority of people you know can generally, fairly, and accurately be described as your intellectual peers. You believe that we all have the ability to think critically. You believe that when someone has the right information, they will make the right decisions. You believe that people are guided by enlightened self-interest. (Am I correct that you are a fan of science fiction? You believe that there are other worlds, some that have moved in a direction, which speak to a species that has truly progressed.)

That means you have something of a liberal mindset. Mind you, that doesn't mean you are a liberal. Hell, that's a totally meaningless term. It means you actually believe in the goodness of man. Well, you're wrong.

You basically pose the question: How can someone deny the absolute truth? How can someone who is presented with irrefutable facts that contradict his/her position refuse to change their position?

My friend, you are simply going to have to come to grips with the truth. These people are STUPID. I know, it sounds mean. It sounds like a school child's name calling. It is not. You owe it to yourself to go to the dictionary and look up the word "stupid". Apply those definitions in a totally dispassionate, cold, logical, unemotional manner to the people to whom you refer. They are STUPID.

They cannot grasp abstract notions, thus their attraction to dogma. It explains their unwavering allegiance and devotion to the very people who grind them into the ground. It explains how Christians are good and Muslims are evil. (They have been spoon fed Bible passages out of context and they know nothing of the Koran.) Like Palin's Momma Grizzly, they just know. These are the people who couldn't convert a fraction to a decimal, but can trash the virtually unanimous conclusion of scientific research that says Anthropogenic Global Warming is the real deal. They are STUPID.

No rational argument sways them. You must have noticed how they avoid questions like the plague or they take the Eric Cantorian approach: "Well, if you're asking me........." No, that's not what you're asking, but they must control the talking points and they even make up their own words. Refudiate that!

At some point, you must accept the truth. They are STUPID. We have made the mistake of treating these people as though they are capable of reason, and for the best of all reasons. We treat them as our peers. That is not a tribute to our magnanimity, it speaks to our refusal to accept facts and it will be our epitaph. "We thought they could think." They are not our peers. That is not arrogant, it is not a conceit, it is a fact. They are STUPID, and like it or not, they are the enemy.

If you cannot see the hatred in their words, their intolerance for anything "different", their slavish devotion to dogma, you are in pure denial. There are none so blind as those who will not see and none so deaf as those who will not hear.

I guess my question is this, Mark & Domenico, are you going to allow First Read to continue to lower your standards and eventually turn into every other ‘rag’ blog out there?

What do you mean eventually? It already has with so much hate on this board. It has really gone down hill in the last year

Plenty of people are stupid, or at least willfully ignorant. However, I think ED's post was more an indictment of a news delivery system more intent on creating a narrative than delivering the facts of a story. Our current news system has created (or allowed) the culture of "spin" in Washington. This system contributes to the ignorance of the masses.

I think delivery of facts to the unwashed masses wouldn't necessarily make them less stupid, but it would allow them to make more informed decisions, which would also be based on life experience, societal standing, etc. It's not often that there are simple, correct answers in politics.

David Walker

Howdy Neighbor! Yep, it is Governor Brownback, may as well get used to it. Were you at all disappointed that Carol Marinovich didn't run? And what did you think about Moran beating Palin's pick Tiahart in the primary. Oh, we could write books living with this day in and day out. I work in KS and have the joy of paying State Income Tax to Kansas. And here's the gripe I have, their taxes are GREATER than Missouri. My 'credit' for taxes paid to another state is less than what I owe Kansas. Now I am all for paying my taxes; but here is a CLASSIC example of taxation without representation. Every time I try to explain it to a 'bagger, they just glaze over. I'm beginning to think they don't understand much.

PS. LOVE YOUR SARCASM! AWESOME!

ONE thing we can all agree upon is that we want to maintain the decorum we’ve all come to expect here @ FR!....Fiesty

Based on what gets written on this site, I'm sure you meant something other than decorum! The lack of civility is appalling. Fiesty, you're concerned about threats which is legitimate and they should not be allowed. However, you are one that throws out so much hatefulness and name-calling I don't see how you can possibly be asking people for decorum?

Water seeks its own level. And, because the moderators here have allowed the name-calling and filth to go on, people feel it's ok to go to the next level. That's why the threats are coming. If you don't stop the rest of the hate and filth here, the threats won't go away. It comes down to that this "community" has said it's ok to be extremely hateful and woefully indecent to others.

I'll give you example of one of your "cutesy" things, Fiesty. You have referred to me as "dirt ball" and "dirt bag". Of course, you don't know the name grew from a private joke between me and deceased son. When I picked a Newsvine name it was not long after his death and I was thinking about him. Your remarks denigrate my memory of that funny story, but Newsvine won't let me change my name. So, if it flips your skirt, go right ahead and make your nasty remarks out of "dirt" but it would do many here well to remember you don't know who you're talking to or anything about them. You attack their comments but you have NO clue what life has been from that person's perspective.

You're concerned about threats but yesterday somebody attacked another by saying the original poster had "no brain" and represented "only what ran down your daddy's leg". Is that the decorum you're looking for? Daily, certain individuals here have to write their filthiness in symbols. Besides looking like a child, do you think people are so stupid that your symbols are going to block a person's response to the word?

You want "decorum". Larry has it absolutely right. If you want decorum, then each person has to start with their own personal behavior. If people really want to clean up the nastiness here, then it's up to them to do it.

While you were calling for decorum, I couldn't help but notice US Navy at 8:23 was so agreeing with you that we have to clean up but his idea of that is to "stop false talking points and outright lies". People should challenge things they know are false. However, most of the time on this site people aren't challenging the validity of a comment; they go into a full-force personal attack mode because they don't like the content.

But, that brings me back to the name-calling, foul language, etc. If you disagree with others in a civil manner, you are more likely to make progress. But, when you say things like "You're stupid. Go pee in somebody else's Cheerios", you not make yourself look ignorant because your only response is an attack and not an intelligent thought but you immediately turn off the other person's ability to "hear" you anymore.

I guess one of the worst violations I see here, tho, is how easily people throw out the "racist" name. I've been called that here more than once. And, again, this comes from people who know nothing about me personally. If you knew my family history and life story, you'd know, though, labeling me "racist" would be an absolute misnomer! I used to just pass when seeing those comments to avoid a PC fight. But, I won't ignore them anymore. My response is to tell the person slinging that word around so freely that they're the racist for using it just merely as a tool to cause harm to another, to detract from the original topic, and especially when my comments had nothing to do with race.

I know Dems use the "race card" but it's been over-played; people are tired of hearing it. And, they're especially tired of hearing it when it's used simply as a detractor and a way to avoid the real issues. Racism is a serious problem. Like the little boy who cried wolf, though, I'm afraid people are going to quit listening because the charge has been so wrongly used.

A few days ago, Fiesty, you posted some very nice quotes about people communicating. I told you then it's easy to quote them but harder to put into practice. People have to change behavior; and, that's the hardest thing we do as humans.

How many times in life I've heard "You get what you give." So, if your discussions here are consumed with hate and anger, that's probably what you're going to get back. It's up to the people posting here to decide if that's the environment they want to continue contributing to.

Have a nice weekend, everybody.

Hi Clara:

Actually, I don't think it would have mattered who ran. Brownback has that antiChrist appeal. No one could beat him. Funniest thing about taxes here, as you note they're higher than all gitout, sales and income taxes. To pass a tax increase, you simply look a Kansan in the eye and tell 'em it's the Republican way, and they're just fine with it. I know the deal about taxes. I was living in western Kansas - Say what! You call that living?" - and working in Colorado.

I think if you wanted to make a western Kansas explode, all you'd have to do is give him a Presidential Ballot with Jesus running as a Democrat and Satan running as a Republican. BOOOOM!

You do raise one question. How can you tell when a teabagger's eyes glaze over? I mean, are there degrees of glazing or something?

Dirt: You have my sincere apologies for calling you those names! In no way do I want to cause you pain about your deceased son.

As for the rest of your post you have 'some' valid points but as far as decorum keep in MIND you attack me consistently and without provocation & I retaliate. So I find it rather ironic that you are calling me out as one of the biggest offenders.

I am DONE sitting back and letting the Republican's get away with their offensive behavior unchallenged! I SELDOM attack ANYONE directly without them swerving in my lane first!

If you are TRULY paying attention - 99% of the time we respond in 'kind' to the lies crap & attacks from the right... my suggestion is clean up your own backyard and we'll work on ours...

You have a nice weekend as well!

I can honestly see David's point, though his assertions about my interests are off the mark - unless he equates Kantian philosophy with science fiction.

Anon's interpretation was much nearer: my primary concern is with the culture we're party to. Whether that manifests in the way the media presents information and treats us intellectually or the standards we apply to ourselves, my general concern is that we're all a product of a system that seeks to short-change us for the benefit of a select upper eschelon. The lamentation was towards those that've fallen, in my perspective, victim to this counter-productive culture and the possibility that there aren't enough left free of that thought process to alter our course.

EDIT: Also, props for those that found merit to my post, and props to Anon for noting most of what I say on Newsweek shouldn't be taken with much seriousness. ;)

Dirt,

Well done.............................

Really Fiesty???

"I am DONE sitting back and letting the Republican's get away with their offensive behavior unchallenged! I SELDOM attack ANYONE directly without them swerving in my lane first!"

That's really hard to believe. You got called out and you're back tracking. Ya, you look where I called you anything! Here's some examples just a few of you're rants...............words to live by............

The knuckle draggin Cheeto eatin trolls are out in FULL force repeating the Right Wing Wut talking point of the day to each OTHER! lmao!

RNC's budget is pretty tight these days (gotta save up for the lesbian bondage clubs foray's dontcha know? ;0)

So NO overtime for the paid right wing trolls!

Right Wing Nuts once again stick their noses into America's bedrooms!

Some people call them opponents… I prefer to call them the victims of stupidity!

We'll be waiting to hear your defense of this deplorable human being (and I use the term human loosely)!

I will give you this... you know what buttons to push to bring the rabid righties out in droves...

I'm proud to be an Obama worshipper over a self hating delusional conspiricy theorist anyday!

Nice try there Flounder... when you figure out the difference between a PERSONAL attack and MY opinion - you might earn your Feisty Fan Club membership...

Until then... you're still irrelevant... lol

I said those things and I STAND by my observations - so your point again would be WHAT?

Other than borderline obsession...

Well, you can't separate the two and I'm not the only one that points it out to you. When you have nothing good to say execpt to vilify people for your own amusement, ya you have some issues.

You whine about this and whine about that, Rule of Engagement is a good example, you want it both ways. Sorry Fiesty, it's very relevant, if you can't handle someones opinions and turn around and call them a name, what does that make you? A narcissistic maybe?

Try to have a good weekend..................................

You're a good American, IR.

Amen to that, Independent.

Although I myself found out that that's not quite true - 4500 members of the military's special forces divisions are still going to be there. However, the last combat brigade of regular troops is coming back, and that's a wonderful thing.

IR:

Great post. I watched part of it yesterday both happy and sad. Did you see where the wife handed her child to the dad and the poor child did not know him and pulled back. My heart broke. While we talk a lot about obvious issues of the war, it s often the less obvious that have the biggest toll.

Welcome home Veterans, I wish you all the best that life has to offer. You deserve it ten fold.

IR: Great post! I would like to join you in welcoming back our American heroes

See yesterday's post. I responded to the ugly person who wrote that piece of crap. It also referred to some of our soldiers as JUST COMBAT TROOPS as if they were a disposable commodity. You have to read her whole post to get the context in how it was written.

It is truly a blessing to have so many talented men and women ready, willing, and able to give their EVERYTHING to protect the United States of America.

Their spirit of devotion and sacrifice is the glue that holds this country together . . . maybe more of us should remember President Kennedy's words and find ways to lift this country up instead of always pointing out areas of weakness and division:

"In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than in mine, will rest the final success or failure of our course. Since this country was founded, each generation of Americans has been summoned to give testimony to its national loyalty. The graves of young Americans who answered the call to service surround the globe.

Now the trumpet summons us again—not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are—but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation"—a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself.

Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?

In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility—I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it—and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country."

- John F. Kennedy, Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961

Well said, I.R. Welcome Home. Watching the arrival home yesterday was a joy and caused a bit of mist in my eyes.

U.S. Navy-I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you actually misunderstood what I was saying.

When I used the word 'just' I DID NOT mean to imply 'merely', but to indicate 'exclusively'. As in, exclusively, combat troops are leaving Iraq-there will still be 50,000 troops left in Iraq.

Get it?

Nashville a very special thank you this morning for putting those immortal words up for us today

My Mother took me downtown so I heard those words that day. When she saw how they affected me and the other folks around us she made a special effort and gifted me with recording of them. I have kept it over the years both as a memento of a Mother’s love for her Son but also as a touchstone for my generation. Many times in periods of great stress especially on the National level I have played them and found my dedication to this great dream we call America has been renewed and strengthened.

My pleasure IR . . . thank you for keeping the sacrifice of our men and women in the military front and center where it belongs.

P.S. It is my sincere hope that I am able to attend the second inauguration of President Obama in the not so distant future! ;o)

Well said I.R.

It was very touching to see some of the families reunited and I thought of all the children who were left orphans or have a Mom or Dad severely injured who may never be able to pick them up or play with them. All kinds of losses in spirit and heart.

We need to remember things like this, when next someone in power decides we should go to war. it should be avoided at all costs.

Drive-by if you'll play us a little "Crazy" softly in the background to sooth my old jangled nerves and help me to get the day off to good start I'll share a little of that Joe with you

It's a deal, brother. Then, maybe I'lll see if JoAnna wants to go "walkin' aftrer midnight" (out in the moonlight) with Meeeeeeee.......

(Sorry Feisty- hope you weren't in the middle of lunch!

Be careful there Drive-by they tell me some of those things are growing teeth. Hate for you to show up Monday speaking in a high Falsetto.

This is the smartest, most true post I've seen here in more than a month. RIP Tim. You are missed by many!

If you'll look back most of this lying and hate started after we lost Tim. He was the on jouralist that would call everyone out on thier lies. The media we have today is to lazy or to scared to do the research to call anyone out when they lie. Rachel is the only one who will do the research and call anyone Democrat or Republican out on their lies, but Rachel is to Liberal to be taken seriously by the republicans.

Mo - you are so right. Rachel is by far one of the smartest journalist out there, but alas, she is to liberal to be taken seriously. I so miss Tim. RIP and God Bless.

Speaking of the 51Park controversy, Nancy Pelosi scares me just as much, if not more, than Sarah Palin. She's calling for an investigation into who's funding the opposition to the mosque?

Just drop it, Nancy. There are far more important things for you to be worrying about, like the fact that you're probably responsible for most of the partisan deadlock. I agree with a liberal policy on some things, but Senator Pelosi takes it too far sometimes. (Does she have a serious challenger this time around?)

Out of curiousity, did it ever occur to anyone that Nancy Pelosi may have been using sarcasm?

Not to me. Sarcasm from politicians goes over just as well as it does over the Internet; it fails epically. (Been there, done that multiple times.)

Fair enough.

Sean

The scariest part is no one is noticing the fact that if Pelosi is allowed to go through with this just how much it infringes on our Constitutional right to freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Speech does not just mean the words that come out of our mouths or the words we type / write. It also means what we (as americn citizens or companies) spend our money on. The only time this should not be alloewd is when someone says/writes or does something that could lessen our national security / safety.

In the same vein this also means that the Supreme Court ruled correctly that corporations should be allowed to back whatever political candidtae (whatever party) they choose to back.

Again freedom of Speech is not just afforded to statements / movements that are "good" or "right" to the mainstream of America. Freedom of Speech is to be afforded to everyone and if someone wishes to demonstrate against the Mosque at Ground Zero or display deragatory signs about President Obama that needs to be allowed just as much as protestors displaying images of President Bush being hung or burned or that "church" that does protests against fallen members of the military.

Nancy Pelosi isn't a Senator.

Sean I do agree with you. When I think about the number of agencies we have that are tasked with the mission of tracking Terrorist and Terrorist related financing all over World it would seem to me that the Speaker should have been able to pick up the phone and have her question answered in about 5 minutes. Looks like to me it's another one of those cases where somebody put their mouth in motion without making sure they had the Pick-em-up in gear

IR--your post reminds me of an issue that I've been pondering over the past week or so--when did people decide that the First Amendment applies to private actions? The mosque/community center raises First Amendment issues, the Dr. Laura controversy raises First Amendment issues, etc. The First Amendment prohibits the GOVERNMENT from interfering with our rights of free speech, religion, etc. So--the government can't stop a religion from occupying a location (assuming it satisfies legitimate zoning, etc). And the government can't stop Dr. Laura from saying whatever she wants. How have her First Amendment rights been interfered with if her advertisers pull their dollars and her employers tell her not to upset the advertisers? Maybe we should have a "primer" on the First Amendment.

@Pat:

I earn the Facepalm award for the day for that gaffe. Thanks for the reminder. ^_^

Steeler I hear you. I just can't quite get over the feeling that along about the end of November that a whole bunch of folks that just can't understand Constitutional principals and insist that we just can't live without either disregarding them or scrapping them entirely are going to have a epipany and decide that the one we have now is just fine and really doesn't need fixing at all. Seems to happen right regularly about every two years or so.

No one has to call you an idiot, Joe. You post on here every day and prove it yourself.

Joe just a thought for you this morning. If you’re going to put up something first thing with all these references to sex and how its practiced why don’t you take up the habit of at least leaving a Mint or Rose on the pillow when you make your exit like all the high class houses of ill repute do.

Might help me get over the feeling that I’ve stepped in something smelly this morning.

Just a thought from a fellow that’s probably more used watching where he’s walking so he doesn’t step in a load of cowpucky than most

Matt Houston:

Touche'. He does it rather well though don't you think.

Morning IR:

Not sure what asinine comment by Minnow Joe - lead to your reply... But I would like to add you should remind him that paying for those kinda services is best done is paper currency!

Paying the ladies in quarters from his lawn mowing job is downright TACKY! lol

Ain't no big thing there Red. Just trying to remind old Joe that a lot of folks don't like starting off their day with a description of what some folks might consider some deviant practices. Thought maybe a gentle hint might get him out of the habit before he started letting his Alligator mouth got to far out in advance of his Hummingbird behind

You know, FR would be far less entertaining if I actually cared about what lefty liberals think (LOL!!!) about my posts.

LMAO@U

Joe, all the folks I know, especially those with college age children and young adult children who have been working underpaying jobs since bush was in office are pretty excited about the opportunity to continue to carry their children on their insurance plan. I work for a very large group of doctors, they are happy about HCR - just wish it contained a single payer system, all they want is to be able to offer their services to all their patients equally. Yes, my premium will probably go up, guess what? It has gone up steadily for the past 10 years, so nothing new in that area - we are used to it, only now we have the hope that perhaps the insurance CEO won't be the one to profit from it.

Come on Joe - fess up, you really are the CEO of a health insurance company aren't you? No, then you must be Glenn Beck or Newtie!

Union Baby, if you took 100% of the salaries from the top 100 insurance company executives of EVERY health insurance company in the country, it still wouldn't cover the cost of one day's worth of the uselees tests perfomed by Drs to cover their a$$es from predatory ambulance-chasing lawywers of the tort bar, a key Democrat source of campaign funds.

Gee, do you think that might be why the Democrat HCR partial-birth abortion bill didn't contain any tort reform???

I wish I had the source, but during the original debates tort reform was shown to cause a low percentage of HC costs, something like .5%. I'm not denying it wasn't in there as a result of some lobbying effort; both parties are subject to the arguments of lobbyists. Just sayin' it's not as much of an issue as opponents would make it out to be.

As for the partial-birth abortion comment, moral arguments are even tougher to navigate than political ones.

A 0.5% reduction in the 15% of the GDP that healthcare costs our $13 trillion economy is $6.5 billion per year, I'll take it and enjoy, celebrate, the unemployment hit from ambulance-chasing tort lawyers put out of work, 1-800 we'll sue 4u.

Joe in Albany-1902257
The lefty liberal BS artist’s that Rahmed HCR down the throats of the American people, despite overwhelming opposition

Overwhelming opposition??? I understand that the percentage of people that are against HCR plus the percentage of people that are against HCR BECAUSE IT DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH, is more than 50 percent.

It would make sense for the democrats to say that they want to improve it.

Has your 401K balance gone up too?????

Correction to my previous post:

Joe in Albany-1902257
The lefty liberal BS artist’s that Rahmed HCR down the throats of the American people, despite overwhelming opposition

Overwhelming opposition??? I understand that the percentage of people that are in favor of HCR plus the percentage of people that are against HCR BECAUSE IT DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH, is more than 50 percent.

It would make sense for the democrats to say that they want to improve it.

Has your 401K balance gone up too?????

Good Morning Pat: I agree that Howard Dean is wrong on this issue. Your positive comments are topics Democrats can run on. BTW, I do like Keith, but didn't want defending him to overshadow my point that journalists need to challenge politicians when they don't tell the truth.

Hi Ron, not everyone likes Keith, including some Democrats. He knows that. But because of him we were able to find our voices several years ago. He has a lot of guts and I appreciate that. Keith made quite a difference in my co-worker's perspective on the mosque story. He told me that it's been so long since he has heard anyone on tv teach him something and felt this is something that has been missing from journalism in this generation. I don't always agree with Keith. Nor feel like I have to. But when he hits a grand slam, as he did this week, it should be noted. He was the first one to come out strongly against the right wing on this story. Just like he always has.

There is nothing wishy washy about him, Rachel or Lawrence O'Donnell. And I know there are going to be times when I will disagree with Lawrence. I can just feel it. But I bet overall, he's going to be challenging all of us to think, just like Keith and Rachel do. I can't think of any other tv hosts who do that.

btw, I'm curious. Do you detect a Boston accent when Lawrence O'Donnell speaks? I don't. I can hear it more with Mike Barnicle than I do with Lawrence. Or am I just blind to all our many accents? lol

Pat, Boston:

Right on, great post. I also think Howard Dean is wrong on this issue. He stumbled around a bit yesterday.

I think Keith has potential to be an excellent interviewer, like Rachael. Glad to see Rachael wn the Cronkite award. It is her journalism that got MSNBC to cover the soldiers coming home. She tells it the way it is good or bad (the vast majority of the time).

Hi Pat!

Agreed on Lawrence - I don't detect any hint of a Boston accent!

'The Last Word' with Lawrence O'Donnell premiers Mon 9.20.10.

Let the countdown being...

US Navy, we are so so fortunate to have them aren't we? Otherwise, the right would just run crazy with no accountability whatsoever.

Pat: Politically there isn't much sunlight showing between us. We are in the same hymnal, same page, same verse. Regarding your question; with certain words, Lawrence comes from Boston. That's a good thing. With many words you could tell I come from Indiana...that's a bad thing. Much Hoosier twang left when I lived in Arizona. But now it would be hard to tell if I came from Kentucky or Indiana.

It's getting football time. The Colts will be tough...as long as Manning stays healthy. During pre-season games Colts are 4 and 21. They just look at their players during preseason. So last nights loss to the Bills is no big deal.

Oh the joys of football. Can't wait Ron. Can't wait. Looking forward as well to October baseball playoffs, minus the Red Sox. But October is still October for me. Love the playoffs, in any sport, but particularly baseball. I can't imagine the NYY not repeating though, which is a bummer.

Feisty, The Last Word - it's a great title for his program. I wonder how long it will take before I start disagreeing at him. lol He's more left than I am. But I'm thrilled to see him host his own program. Thrilled. Ron, I love accents which is why I was wondering if you thought Lawrence had one. Of course I wouldn't notice his, which is why I asked. He doesn't quite have the accent Barnicle has as best as I can judge.

LOL Pat!

I CAN'T stand the way Barnacle pronounces Obama!

I can not stand Barnacle, I did not like him when he was on Imus in the Morning (I think that is where I heard hem first). Soon we will have Keith followed by Rachael and topped off by Larry. Sound like the last word is a perfect title.

I'm no fan of his either Retired!

Did you know him & Tim Russert were VERY close friends?

I as well don't like Barnicle. Neither did many of the journalists at the Boston Globe when he worked there. Journalistic integrity should be #1 for any journalist. And once you compromise that, it's over. It's strange how so many journalists forget so quickly why they became journalists.

GM would have never gone out of business. Anyone who knows anything about the auto industry knows that. It would have gone thru bankruptcy and would have gotten rid of those divisions not making money. The most important thing would have been the ridding themselves of the union contracts. The Democrats could not have let those contacts disappear. It would have meant about a 40% pay cut with probably 30% less jobs. This was not a bailout of GM but a bailout of the union contracts. If you listed to the news this week. Even though the government is letting GM go public, they will still retain enough stock to keep control. The Obama administration will not give up control of GM.

Ray, if it was all just a union-busting ploy why was management begging the government for money even before Bush left office?

My comment about Joe applies just as well to you, CU Farley.

Not afraid of them CU, we call them out for the hate-mongering bullies they are long enough to make the point, then go do something more productive. Thanks for pointing out, though, that the Republican Party is no longer the party of Lincoln in a lot of ways. http://www.educationask.com/quotations/1179-quotaions-2.html

Good Morning Dan;

May I make a suggestion... as for Minnow Joe... I put him on my handy dandy IGNORE author button weeks ago and haven't regretted it for a second!

As I told NewDay... once it became obvious he wasn't old enough to shave... well he's just not feisty 'worthy'!

Here's hoping that he makes it to adulthood if he manages to steer clear of the large mouth a@@...

Two guys were watching a dog 'licking himself'. One fellow says to the other "why do you suppose they do that?" The other fellow replies "because they can".

See- when you ask why some of these people post complete nonsense, it's 'because they can'. That's all there is to it, Dan. Sometimes, (unlike the dog example) it's kind of fun to sit back and watch 'em.

Thanks for the suggestion Feisty! and a very good morning to you!

The early hours usually are peaceful here for an hour or so but not today. They are out early and are bursting with hatred.

I suggest Decafe!

Drive-by,

Agreed.

I really don't have it in me to hit the ignore button. I like to have a front row seat when the show begins. Good morning to you too! Happy posting!

Drive-By,

I heard it where the Birther said "I sure wish that I could do that" and the other man told him " I dunno, I think you had better ask him first!"

"As I told NewDay... once it became obvious he wasn't old enough to shave... well he's just not feisty 'worthy'!"

I've always suspected the Nasty Redhead of being a child molester.

Jeez, Joe, you can't even get an insult right.

She is saying he was too young for her. That makes her a child molester, how? Now if she had said she was interested because he wasn't old enough to shave, then your insult would make sense.

It seems my first post in response to your first post still stands.

Matt, you're not too bright, are you??

The Nasty Redhead's underlying message is that when some innocent young child is old enough to shave, he's "feisty-worthy". Most normal male children begin to shave at age 16-118. That's cihld molesting stage for a self-admitted "cougar" like the Nasty Redhead.

Moron.

Sorry, typo: 16-118 should be 16-18.

Underlying message? So now you're a mind reader, too? Twist and squirm, Joe, my original assessment still stands.

Matt, that's because you are a lefty liberal moron, 'nuff said.

Seriously, Joe? Neener, neener, neener? (okay, it wasn't neener, neener, neener but it might as well have been) Is that all you got? I'm the moron? Do you even know what a moron is, Joe?

Wow, your rapier wit just leaves me speechless . . . oh wait, it didn't.

Lame, Joe, just plain lame.

If you find out who to contact let me know. I would also like to chat with them about their"fair and balanced" ad slogan.

"You keep on using these words. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I've said this before: "fair and Balanced" at Fox is a reference to their on-air folks at "Fox and Friends. It means "fair" of complexion, and "balanced" in that the ladies sport well-shaped, symetrically appealing body parts. That's all it means, Dan.

Drive-by,

lol! That sums it up nicely.

I was talking to my husband last night about the donation by Roger Ailes (sp?) to the RGA... not being well versed in the rules & regulations of the FCC - I do have question why Fox is able to continue calling themselves a 'news' organization?

If this doesn't scream conflict of interest - what does?

Just a quick point-

GE, parent company of NBC, as given ~$11,554,605 to Dems in this election cycle.

jkenney1973

and an equal amount to the Repubs,...

jkenny,

GE donating is VASTLY different than Fox donating. If NBC were doing the donating then you would be comparing apples to apples, as it is, you are describing apples to cherries!

How about "far from balanced" ?

Clara,

GE contributed ~ $5,872,012 to Republicans. When I went to school, I learned that number is not nearly equal to the other.

The point I'm trying to make is that while Fox is biased, MSNBC is as well. Pretending that the situation is otherwise is foolish.

jkenny,

If MSNBC had donated instead of GE then you would have a point, as it is, you do not, at least, not one that is relevant!

B. Honest,

OK let's try being honest. News Corp donated the money. Not Fox News. News Corp owns Fox. GE owns MSNBC. So, as a matter of relevance, I'd say it's right on the money (no pun intended.)

If you want to see the contributions for each parent company, I would suggest OpenSecrets.org.

jkenney1973

Irony is seriously lost on you, isn't it?

NEWSCORP versus General Electric? The CONTRAST is stunning. Or are you an EVIL GENIUS? I just can't tell.

Clara,

OK, take out the issue of the amount of money given. We can just go by percentages. That's roughly 61% to dems and 38% to repubs that GE has given out (according to opensecrets.org).

I believe that NewCorp is supposed to be in NEWS - you know gives people the News in paper, on TV, on the Radio.

GE on the other hand, owns news outlets, is really big in the healthcare industry like MRI scanners, CT Scanners, X-ray Equipment, Ultrasound machines plus PACS and RIS. Then there is all those light bulbs. And a whole lot of other stuff. So they are not strictly NEWS.

I for one am glad that all the corporations that give to politicans are now being published in a big way. But a News outlet should either not be donating to politicians, or should not have their main news channel advertised as "Fair and Balanced" If they changed their name to "Republicans are our Party" maybe no one would care as much.

"GE, parent company of NBC, as given ~$11,554,605 to Dems in this election cycle"

jkenney1973 do you have a source reference for this info??

Because, if it's true, I'm gonna dump my stock for them being so stupid.

Yes, Kathy, thanks for the backup:

jkenney, irony is when you attempt to make a point about something ELSE and then invariably make someone else's point for them. But since it is lost on you, please allow me to point it out in simple terms EVEN you can understand:

NEWSCORP derives 100% of their Revenues from news and entertainment whereas GE only derives 9.8% of their total REVENUES from News and entertainment. A company that bills it's 'news' division as fair and balanced is certainly making no attempts to hide a partisan agenda with their donations. I am sure there is a logical explanation. We couldn't ALL be seeing the joke here and only you are the one not getting it, jkenney. Or could we?

And hey, fellow libbies, because I knew you would get a charge out of seeing NewsCorps declining revenues from advertising cuts,...here's a GREAT link to enjoy.

http://www.wikinvest.com/wiki/Nws

As a percent of OVERALL revenues, GE gave far less to Democrats and at least balanced it out by giving SOMETHING to Republicans. Newscorp? Not so much, since they ONLY gave to Republicans.

Clara,

"As a percent of OVERALL revenues, GE gave far less to Democrats and at least balanced it out by giving SOMETHING to Republicans. Newscorp? Not so much, since they ONLY gave to Republicans."

Actually, if you would do even a small amount of research, say 10 seconds on Google, you would find that up until the $1 M contribution, NewsCorp had given pretty evenly to both Dems and Repubs. Even going so far as to contribute to Barbara Boxer's campaign.

Please, do some research so you will not continue to be ignorant. There is nothing wrong with ignorance as long as the person does not wallow in it. That would make them an idiot.

Clara,

I should also ask if you are ok with a HUGE corporation such as GE having that much influence on the WH, the Healthcare bill, etc.? I know I'm not ok with it. And I wouldn't be ok with it no matter the party in power.

The one thing I've admired Libs for is their fight against big corps. They do it for the wrong reasons in many cases, but it is still admirable. That said, I guess that makes you a republican?

I'd rather have a bit of twisted irony lost on me than to be as clueless as you appear to be about your own hypocrisy.

jkenney

umm, whatever you say - but you DO realize that contributions are attributed to corporations because individuals HAVE to disclose their employer, right? So, I stand by my research and my comments. You are starting to look like a pretzel at this point, and quite frankly, I'm in the mood for popcorn. You have yet to admit that comparing NEWSCORP to GE is at best a straw argument and at worst an ignorant move. Imma say both, where you're concerned.

jkenney1973

Clara,

I should also ask if you are ok with a HUGE corporation such as GE having that much influence on the WH, the Healthcare bill, etc.? I know I'm not ok with it. And I wouldn't be ok with it no matter the party in power.

The one thing I've admired Libs for is their fight against big corps. They do it for the wrong reasons in many cases, but it is still admirable. That said, I guess that makes you a republican?

I'd rather have a bit of twisted irony lost on me than to be as clueless as you appear to be about your own hypocrisy.

The liberal justices voted against this type of stuff. I think that most liberals agree with them.

Has your 401K balance gone up too?????

Wasn't GE one of the biggest donors to the Obama administration. Yet everyone tells us how objective (LOL) MSNBC is. I am glad to see 4 or 5 people on here who watch Keith. I was wondering who those people were when looking at this ratings. Only on MSNBC can your ratings be that bad and still have a job. He can't even look up to see O'Reilly's backside.

Sean, I'll contribute my take on the Iowa race. Chet Culver has done a decent job as Governor but has completely fumbled the politics and PR. As a result there's a strong chance he's going to hand the office to former Governor Terry Branstad, one of the biggest weasels in Iowa politics in the last 50 years. Last time Braindead was governor educational effectiveness dropped, incomes dropped, total employment numbers dropped, wages dropped, and population dropped for the first time EVER in state history. A mere 12 years later it seems we're going to prove that people are stupid...or at least have short memories.

Sean - thank you for trying to steer us back to the topic.

MA polictics will ALWAYS be interesting to me. My folks both grew up in Marblehead - so many great summers spent there as a child.

Your last line makes me sad....because it seems to be the case in so many races. It's so easy to see why many good folks avoid public service...what a dirty game it is. It seems to me that as the politicians and their races have gotten nastier, so too has the electorate. Where has the decorum gone in our statehouses, congress, etc.? Respect and integrity seem to be disappearing. It's pretty difficult to cut through to the issues when we can't get past a person's gaffe, their chosen religion or what prank they did in college. We are all complicit (electorate, media, politicians) - question is... does the future just hold more of the same?

Governors races are pretty darned important. (I currently live in CO) The (D) crowd seem to be very happy with their choice of Denver Mayor Hickenlooper. He is tested and vetted. He received 87% of the vote in his last re-election. The (R) party here is kind of a mess. The primary was just "kookie politics". They currently have a quasi-tea partier and Tom Tancredo (I can't follow his party affiliation in this race). The Mayor is DETERMINED to keep this race about the issues, no negative ads. I pray he is successful in this endeavor. Maybe we have the "adult in the room" here in our wonderful state!!

Agreed.

I couldn't tell you what Charlie Baker's positions are - I've never seen any ad espousing a position that he stands for. It's unfortunate that I'm seeing more ads on my TV for the New Hampshire senatorial race than for the MA gubernatorial race. That's a problem.

Also, perception of Deval Patrick has started to falter in our local media:

MA just had a huge fight over allowing casinos and racetrack slots ("racinos") in our state - a major % of both chambers approved it, the Governor vetoed it, and we had no 2/3rds in the MA Senate to overturn him. The first casualty emerged yesterday: Wonderland greyhound track shut down after 75 years.

[Context: In the 2009 election, MA outlawed greyhound racing in the state, so Wonderland was hoping for a gaming license to supplement what little simulcast income they were getting.]

So that's why I'm looking at Tim Cahill. He can keep the pensions afloat (according to his ads, I've had no impetus to fact-check), he's looking better than Gov. Patrick, and I actually know his position on some topics.

JoAnne: Great post!! I really enjoyed it.

Joanne: Beautiful!

Again Ill say this:

This whole mess (unfortunately) is President Obama's doing. He could end all this by simply holding a press conference (he's really good at holding those) and simply do one thing:

All he has to say is :"I believe Jesus Christ died for the sins of all people". If he did that he would answer all his doubters. If not then at least we would know what he is.

Does it matter either way? To me personally no because God is going to use the office of the President to His glory no matter who is sitting at the desk.

The problem I have with this situation is the fact that he is so secretive (like he has been with everything -- no transparency) about this. That and the fact that his words claim one thing but his actions (his pro muslim stances on almost everything from Israel to the Mosque) say something totally different.

In the words of Glenn Beck "Say what you mean and mean what you say"

Excellent, Joanne. I've been enjoying your posts for quite some time now.

Great post JoAnne. I admire your intelligence.

Reading yesterday's comments on First Read was sickening for me too. Towards the end of the day, it's like someone left the door open and all the flies came in.

I think some right wing site directed traffic to FR in the afternoon; the shrill, hysterical, anti-Obama, anti-Muslim comments were an aberation from the usual thoughtful and measured posts found here.

Well, the good news is, I, for one, am all "fired up and ready to go." I remember in '08, my sisters supported Hillary for President, but never bothered to vote in the primaries. I, on the other hand, endured our caucus process (not as much fun as you might think) to cast my vote for Barack Obama. Democrats need to get energized, if we aren't to see the country slip backwards.

Last night on NBC Nightly News, Brian Williams and Chuck Todd said loud and clear that President Obama is a Christian and stated that he was born in the US. This morning Chuck Todd followed up by stating that the President is not only a Christian but a baptized Christian.

Of course all the Rightwing “Orly Taitz” followers will say this is just more evidence that the Liberal Media is in the pocket of the Obama Administration.

It never ends and you can’t fix stupid.

This whole mess (unfortunately) is President Obama's doing. He could end all this by simply holding a press conference (he's really good at holding those) and simply do one thing:

All he has to say is :"I believe Jesus Christ died for the sins of all people". If he did that he would answer all his doubters. If not then at least we would know what he is.

Does it matter either way? To me personally no because God is going to use the office of the President to His glory no matter who is sitting at the desk.

Really? You honestly believe that the doubters would be silenced?

<BUZZ>

Wrong! The narrative would simply change to, "Well, he just did that because he thinks it's what we want to hear!"

His faith is not our business just as my faith is not your business and your faith is not my business so why does he have to hold a press conference?

I loved your post--a simple question that no one should hesitate to answer. We'll see how it does.

larry, in reply to your post, President Obama did have a meeting with a minister and did talk about his faith. It could be that President Obama just does not "wear his faith on his sleeve" like many of us also do not. I am a christian, I go to church BUT I consider that my faith is something private between myself and my God. I seldom go out of my way to profess my faith, and frankly, I am uncomfortable around other people who do shout their faith from the rooftops. That is just how I feel. It has nothing to do with the other person.

But in reality, does it make any differency what his faith is? Does it change how he governs? Or does knowing his faith give the people a "feeling" that they can believe in or disagree with?

Larry, Minot -

Question: Would you have asked President Bush to hold that same press conference? President Reagan? President Carter? No, you wouldn't, because for some reason when any other President in history has said he's a Christian, we take them at their word. So why do you insist on holding this President to a different standard?

I would sincerely like to believe in this epiphany you seem to have had this week about no longer speaking ill of your fellow posters. Are you Christian enough to extend the same generosity to your President? As you say.....actions speak louder than words.....

Amy B - I think I could put up with caucuses if it meant being lucky enought to live in Maine. It's one of my favorites!

JoAnne, this is a masterpiece....voted. Keep posting this every week, maybe some will be enlightened.

It has often occured to me as I read these dreadful postings, they are being read in other parts of the world. What must they think of us? Half the country is full of bigots, laced with intolerance for those who are different in skin color, religion and or culture, why would anyone, anywhere want to be like us or near us.

JoAnne, may you get 1,000 recs for your post. Beautifully said.

JoAnne in PA;

Well said and thought out. I agree with your analysis.

I can always count on you to put things into perspective. Have a great weekend.

Joanne

No where in my post did I post anything negative regarding the President..... No where did I type "He's a "effing" muslim" or anything deragatory regarding him.

What I did do was contrast the words that he spoke against his actions. For example.... Israel is God's chosen country and is the only Christian country in an overwhelmingly Muslim portion of the world. As a Christian it is our duty to help out our brothers and sisters in Christ. What President Obama has done regarding Israel is the exact opposite of that.

See that is the problem today (while I was over the top and took things WAY too far before) being in opposition of what the President is doing is not hate, racism or anything else. When President Bush was in office most liberals were in opposition to him and said just as bad if not worse things about him.

It goes both ways.

What I am saying regarding President Obama is that if he truly is a Christian (just like the Bible says) his actions should show his faith and siding with Islam (against not only our country but his own faith [if he is truly a Christian]) does not show that

Ummm, Larry,

Israel is a JEWISH State, NOT Christian by any means. In fact, they are Zionist, which means that they are Jews with the Old Testament driven idea that they and ONLY they should be in full ownership and control of The Promised Land. It does not matter to them that the Palestinians have lived there continuously for thousands of years and that most of the Jews in Israel are immigrants, especially those living in the Settlements.

You are soooo far off base in this post that I find it totally incredible that you are posting such ignorance. Go back and do some study, LOTS of study and see exactly HOW Israel came about. They STARTED the terrorism in the Middle East with the Sturm Gang killing and driving off hundreds of thousands of Palestinians whose families had lived there for thousands of years.

Israel is NOT a "Christian Nation" it is strictly Jewish!

Larry - I had no idea that Israel was a Christian country. Thanks for enlightening me.

Gingerbread, Pat, Navy and everyone else - thanks. It means more than you'll ever know.

1

Amy B. Portland, ME
OK, I have to put my two cents in, regarding the race for governor of Maine.

Polls are showing the Republican, Tea Partier Paul Lepage AHEAD, which is horrible news. The good news is, the public hasn't seen a lot of this guy (he has thus far missed several debates) so support is more for the idea of a poor boy makes good story than for the real person, who is not an impressive candidate.

In the same recent poll: 54 % approved of President Barack Obama’s job performance. 50% said their financial situation is getting worse. (Although the weather has been great in Maine this summer, which lead to happy Mainers and more tourism dollars). Obama's high approval rating says to me, Mainers don't expect a president to wave a magic wand and fix the economy, even if he is a bright and hardworking guy. We are used to the hard scrapple life, punctuated with bouts of joy, as when the Red Sox win.

Has your 401K balance gone up too?????

Great news!!!

I don't expect government to create a perfect world for me. That's where you and I are different. If America's economy is having a hard time it's because Americans haven't been investing in building products with more utility than bundled mortgages and split derivatives, or whatever other fancy financial "product" Wall Street has been enamoured with for so long. America needs to invest in education, innovation, alternative energy and manufacturing to be competitive in the world. The government can help, but its up to US to pull out of this slump ourselves.

I really, really, really wanted to return to this board and try not to engage in name calling and denigration of others but it is posts like this that make my blood boil and say things like:

Paul, you self-righteous, condescending, demogoging, unimformed, illogical, lieing twit. Where do you get off telling me what I think, believe or want? You spout lies, talking points and misrepresent what Republicans have done or are doing and then have the audacity to say that any attack on your points is unjustified and just born out of hatred. What cr@p!

Your 'facts' have been disproven over, and over , and over, and over again on a daily basis. You try to come across as 'oh so reasonable' and then attack the intelligence and motivations of the other side while all the while saying any response is just because the other side hates your reasonablness. I call BS on your sorry a$$.

Okay, my apologies to everyone on this board, I just had to get that out of my system. Go ahead ITM, MB, Paul, Joe, JS1 and all you others on the right, attack away. I may deserve it but boy do I feel better.

Holy S@%*!

I was sincerely reading this until I came upon :

"I have known for some time that it will be the liberals who will allow the ushering in of the anti-Christ, but I never really understood how the anti-christ could so easily rise to power as the bible says and how the masses won’t recognize him for who he is. The election of Obama has changed all that for me. God sent us Obama to show us all just how “NAÏVE” people are and how easy it will be."

LOL! You had me going...I really thought this would be a well thought out response. Self-fulfilling prophecy look it up.

Paul I read most of your post but had to stop because unfortunately you saying that all Republicans are all the things you stated is not true. There are liberal / progressive republicans just the same as there are liberal / progressive democrats.

If you were to substitute the word Conervative for Republican than I would agree with every word you said.

When I look at Lindsay Graham, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins I do not think of them as conservatives in the least. When I think of Marco Rubio or Christie in New Jersey then yes I think of what you typed.

Let me note that I thought it would be a well thought out response but not one that I agree with. So I'll say once again

Holy S$%&!!

I can't believe there are people who agree with this crazy nonsense. It's too early for crazy.

You are definitely watching and listening to too much Clusterfixed and Limbagger. Everything you said is simply not true, and as usual, no facts or evidence is provided. These are your opinions, and unfortunately, based on lies and misinformation. They are making a fool out of you, you know, playing you, and they laugh all the way to the bank while the middle class individuals like you continue to vote against your own best interests.

Matt Houston,

You are on a roll today.

I'm with Dan and Matthew, no matter how you try to disguise it, it's still the same old BS. Doing nothing equals massive fraud in our financial markets, tainted food at our grocers and insurance policies suddenly canceled..

Paul,

Please do us all a favor and stick with your original instinct. ie..."I read every day but rarely post."

That, or get some psychiatric assistance and stronger meds.

You lost me at Anti-Christ!

Thank you Paul, an intelligent post without condescending remarks, or name calling. Although I happend to agree whole heartedly with what you write, especially all the hateful remarks concerning the former administration for the past few years, it is nice to see someone I agree with with the ability to put things eloquently. Anytime either side is attached, or is called names, we react similar, and wish to defend our thoughts. We should be able to defend ourselves on the basis of our thoughts, and not because of the name calling. I have a belief that the mess our economy is in is because the loss of faith in it. The last presidential election, Republicans I know had no real faith in the candidate. The movers and shakers also saw this "no confidence" in either canidate, and therefore the loss of faith in this economy. That in itself is a major cause for this recession. (I feel better, I had never said that out loud). I once made a comment to the Ret Navy guy, and it was difficult to remain polite, although I believe I managed it, I do understand why many people reply with such disrespect for one another, it takes a little thought to comment on passionate political issues and still be respectful of those that disagree. It is probably at good thing I am not the one in charge of monitoring these posts, because any name calling would be deleted. Whether you hate Mr. Oberman, or Mr. Limbaugh, you can respond intelligently, without disrespect, name calling, or plain hatefulness.

.Thanks again Paul, the folks that agree with you enjoy seeing it posted respectfully, and intelligently.

Just goes to show that NO matter how HARD they try...

They just can't contain the hate even for a moment!

I can't imagine going though life that way... :0(

Gingerbread and Dan - dang, you beat me to it! I've gotta learn to type faster.....

Paul, you were doing good when talking about conservative principals (not that some Republicans are conservatives).

When you start talking about the anti-Christ you are starting to go off the deep-end. Pre-dispensational eschatology is usually quite laughable. Christ changes hearts. Lets worry about ourselves intead of calling names and trying do determine is he or isn't he. We've got enough to disagree with the President on to start calling him a Muslim or anti-Christ. Lets agree on how we can change this which is through the means our founders gave which is the ballot box

US Navy Vet,

Thanks. I had a lot building up in me until I could get back on this board.

BTW, I'm ex-Navy, too. Not retired but still a galloping greyhound with salt water in my blood. USS C. F. Adams DDG-2 1978 - 82. They are trying to get it into Jacksonville, FL as a museum ship. Let all your Navy buddies know, they need help and donations.

Why would I "contain" my outrage when those on the other side, respond with "Reload". In a quick-draw, you don't survive by being docile in the face of violence or threats.

"The short answer is limited government" I respect that, and its the argument Republicans have always made for voting for them, and its appealing, but how do you square your argument with the fact every Republican administration has actually grown government and spent millions of dollars on earmarks to benefit Republican districts? Salaries for the middle class have dropped under Republican rule, while the wealth of the country has migrated to the top 1%. You can't argue with facts.

Last night, I was so upset by the rightwing comments on this site, I was actually tossing and turning trying to sleep. I too, am gripped with bibilcal thoughts and religious passion when my political ideals are under attack. Perhaps we are of the same genetic background? (My ancestors were Puritans and I was raised in the Congregational church.) My religious background is a bigger part of me than I sometimes realize. Although my beliefs are Liberal, and yours are Republican, I feel as passionately about protecting President Obama as you do about attacking him. Just so you know.

Paul,

Thank Goodness It is Friday . . .

Lord have mercy . . .

It is interesting that this week we have political pundits "suggesting" that the President of the United States do more to "prove" that he is a Christian . . . how about we compare that to what Jesus said in the Bible:

"1“Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

-Matthew 6: 1-8

So it would seem that Christianity was not designed to be paraded about to win votes . . . how very interesting.

And this is a very special scripture for our anti-Christ specialist, Paul:

"Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’^d and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’^e”

20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Luke 6: 16-24

Hmmmm . . . it will be easier for a CAMEL to go through the EYE of a NEEDLE than for a RICH MAN to enter the KINGDOM OF GOD.

It would seem that showy displays of religiosity and the pursuit of wealth are not actually Christian concepts. If only more folks would actually READ the BIBLE and apply it in THEIR lives instead of in mine.

P.S. Interesting that there is a Christian commandment against giving false testimony, and yet we have professed "Christians" here spreading debunked lies daily. So strange.

Mathew:

Another shipmate, we have quite a few around here. My father was navy and my daughter is navy. I also was on a tin can. The USS King DLG-10 out of San Diego. Once that salt water get in your veins is just does not go away. Thank you for your service and keep the great posts coming.

Stay safe and be well.

Thanks, US Navy. You be safe and well, too. I know I've heard of the King but am unfamiliar with the DLG designation. I truly believe that only tin can sailors are real sailors (okay, the frigate and cruiser sailors aren't too far off ;-))) )

My father and brother were in the Navy, my other brother in the Coast Guard and my third brother was in the Army. My sister just retired from the Army and her son is a Marine. The military is no stranger to our family.

Mathew,

I was on board the USS Proteus, AS-19 (a sub tender), stationed at Guam from '81-'84. Apparently the 'Old Pro' (they held the surrender of the Japanese sub fleet on her decks) is now making a part of a beautiful reef! Thank You for Serving this Nation, as one who has been there I Salute you and all the others who sacrificed their time, energy, bodies, sanity and lives in serving this great Nation with their military service!

Now everyone, Paul is entitled to his opinion ofwhat he says and why he votes for Republicans. I applaud Paul for at least articulating WHY he does what he does. He is also giving you a glimpse into the mindset of like minded person(s) who believe the same thing.

I may not agree with what Paul says. I may not LIKE what Paul says. I may THINK that Paul has lost his mind, but Paul has the absolute right to say, believe and act upon his convictions as long as he is lawful about it.

With all of that being said, as a person who is CENTER-left, I believe that Republicans would have a hard time accepting ME if I was a Republican.

Why?

It is because as a Center-lefty, I can appreciate diverse opinions. I can learn from those diverse opinions and co-exist with them. I take the time to understand the opinions and glean some sort of lesson from them.

Republicans have, over the last 30 years, proven that a diverse stance/opinion is NOT welcome. If you disagree with their 'prevailing knowledge', then you are either a traitor, a Communist, a Marxist or all of the above and you NEED to be shunned. The ideology is RIGID; the dismissal of a differing opinion is widespread. They throw out that they are 'Christians', but their workproduct (or the fruit of their labours) is one of fear, hatred and mean-spiritedness.

As a Christian, those things are exactly OPPOSITE of what Jesus teaches.

So, if we have mean-spirited, fearful, hate-filled people espousing to be 'Christians', what would Jesus do? These are the same people who are worried that President Obama is the Anti-Christ. Although we will not know when this person appearson the scene, I can tell you this - the person will be LOVED by ALL before he deceives all. President Obama is HARDLY loved by 'all', and the polls prove that fact daily.

The point I am making is this - although I would fight to the death for that right that Paul has to say whatever he want to/needs to say, as a center-lefty, I believe would NOT be afforded that same courtesy if Republicans had their way (Freedom Fries, anyone?). I think that this is the disconnect that many feel with the CURRENT Republicans and their policies.

There are many Republicans that are socially liberal and fiscally conservative like I am, and we have NO problem celebrating what binds us.

I do take issue with those Republicans that want to 'control' how I live and justify it by saying that they are 'Christians' and that we should do as they do - or else.

I take issue with those Republicans that want to 'take away' people's citizenship, liberty, and lives because the prevailing 'wisdom' of the Republican ideology states that they have every right to.

I take issue with Republicans that are not even the LEAST BIT curious about the world around them.

I take issue with those Republicans that feel that the USA is 'all great' and that other countries 'need to get with the program and be like us', even when we do something that is reprehensible.

I take issue with Republicans that 'decide' that people will be better off with Democracy and will enforce that belief with firearms of some sort.

I take issue with Republicans that want to control what I do in my bedroom and make whatever I do illegal when it does not fit 'their' specified 'norm'.

I take issue with Republicans that want to control or what a woman does with her womb, even though it is HERS and HER DECISION alone on what to do with that womb.

I take issue with Republicans that decide that life is SACRED and will fight to prevent abortions, but once the child is born, will do NOTHING to nurture it and let it grow when the mother MAY need help doing so.

If we can just bridge some of the issues I have outlined above, then Republicans will be listened to more than they are now. There REALLY IS more that binds us than what divides us.

It's up to us to bridge the gap. So far, it is NOT happening.

Nashville Fan: Your post quoting Scripture hit it out of the ball park--WELL DONE!! and unanswerable. KUDOS to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See my post from yesterday. I think you will find my response as well as several others. It's not what the Repubs have done or not done, but more what the congress has and has not done. I just can't go with anyone that is in congress, and unless Obama doesn't change the direction of this ship real soon, I won't be voting for him again it two year.s

Paul is much like my old 45 rpm vinyl record with a scratch in it. It just keeps playing the same grove over and over. Paul thinks that, that grove is the best music ever composed and will listen to it for the rest of his life.

The Republican Party has no plan. They just want to repeat what got us here.

Tax cuts that lost 12 million jobs and added $1 trillion to the debt in less than 10 years.

Matthew Houston, Navy and B. Honest -

Not to infringe on Matthew's plea for donations, which is a great cause, but we have a really sad situation here in Philadelphia that could use some help, too. The USS Olympia - Admiral Dewey's flagship and I think the last surviving ship from the Spanish-American War - has been docked here as a museum for many years (I remember visiting it the first time as a child and I'm 58) but it's badly in need of being drydocked for repairs and the Independence National Seaport who I believe oversees it, doesn't have anything close to the money it would take. The most recent examinations of it have indicated that if left as it is, it'll sink in place within the next few years, and I believe they've already announced that tours have to be stopped in the next couple of months. As things stand right now, it looks like its eventual fate is going to be being sunk as part of another artificial reef off Cape May, NJ, which would be a shame. So you might want to spread the word on that one, too.

"You may fire when ready, Gridley".

I salute all of you for your service!

JoAnne,

No problem, infringe away. Your cause is as good as (maybe better since it has the Dewey history) mine. History is important and why I read a lot of it. I hope that they can find the money for the Olympia, too. Funny, I spent over a year in the shipyards there and did not even know it was there. That was in my younger days though and other things were more important to me at the time.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who have lived here all their lives and don't know it's there - I wish more people read more history like you do. If you were down at the Navy Yard, you could easily have missed it, as it's docked further up the river. Reminds me of several years ago when I was reading a historical fiction book about the Civil War and thought the author was making up this big fort in the middle of the river further down in Delaware that was supposed to be this famous prison camp. I was thoroughly embarrassed to find out that it really exists and I'd just never heard of it. Have made up for lost time, though, by visiting it at least a half dozen times since then and introducing it to everyone else I know who'd never heard of it either. I love finding those undiscovered treasures.

Hope we showed you a good time in your younger days! Have a good weekend.

JoAnne PA:

Got it covered as well.

A DLG is a Destroy Class Light Guided Missile. Sleak, Trim and Fast. My father said the same about tin can sailors before he went to the USS Alaska which was a pocket Battle Ship saw extensive duty in the Pacfic.

Paul (MI) - Mirror of Truth

What have republicans done for you and the case for voting Republican?

I have known for some time that it will be the liberals who will allow the ushering in of the anti-Christ, but I never really understood how the anti-christ could so easily rise to power as the bible says and how the masses won’t recognize him for who he is. The election of Obama has changed all that for me. God sent us Obama to show us all just how “NAÏVE” people are and how easy it will be. Just for kicks and giggles he even made him the most ridiculous, impossible, improbable candidate he could find with absolutely no experience. He even threw in a man who grew up with a life time of hatred and just a touch of evil to give us all every advantage and opportunity to see through Obama. But like all the fallen cultures before us the world is slipping further into godless liberalism and morals too far gone. So just like Obama, the anti-Christ will be introduced to the world and rise to power on the backs and lies of CNN, MSNBC and yes the mindless liberals will be mesmerized, ignore the facts and bow before him. They will hide the truth and the liberal minions and sheeppl will not question, they will simply praise and worship him like a rock star as instructed. All because GE says so. (the only business Libs like and don’t believe is greedy) who’s very existence is dependent upon the government, who owns MSNBC, who owns First Read and as a result is also controlled by the government. I call it The circle of liberal life.

It is said that in the end times, “Evil will be called good and good shall be called evil”. Everyday on this board and on the news we see libs and dems call business’s, Christians, Jews, Republicans, Americans and anyone else that doesn’t agree with them as Evil. All while they hail government, foreign countries, enemies that wish to kill us, Obama, abortion, homosexuality and the like as good. Never in my wildest dreams. I find it odd that libs believe that the best way to deal with those who mean Americans harm, spew hatred towards us and disagree with us is to be kind, negotiate, be apologetic and understanding. This consideration they extend to them, yet to their fellow American’s and Republican’s they extend only name calling and hatred. Weird and hypocritical at best.

Perfect logic!!!! Excellent logical reasoning!!!! Full of facts!!!!

Just not capable of commenting without name calling, hmmm........

Come north, just not too far north. There are lots of progressives here.

California and New Mexico are blue states.

Have a nice day. We'll miss you!

See Ya! Don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out, it might give you a headache.

Good, we wont miss you.

Bye Bye Dave!

Promise Dave?

Dave 3099:

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Bye!!

Dave, welcome to the FR lefty liberal echo chamber/mutual admiration club.

Dissenting opinions are not welcome.

These people that don't agree with the FR lefty liberals, MUST be stopped!!!!

Dissenting opinions are not welcome.

Oh, they're welcome...so long as I can tell you why you're wrong.

Look...I did it again!!!

Dave- the posts are, for the most part, inSIGHTfulL. The one above from Joe is, to use your word, "inCITEful".

You lost me at "Fox is the only to report anything bad about Obama" [sic].

Agreed Benny, with the exception of Democrats in heaven. I am sure God forgives a little easier than we do......

I'm with Matthew, it could have ended right there.

Not even a week ago I sent a scathing email to CBS for a WH report that consisted almost entirely of Conservative talking points.

benny - I hope you are being factious when you talk about there being no democrats in heaven. I really don't think God judges according to what political party one follows.

We are all called to help the poor and disadvantaged - the disagreement is in whether it is the government doing the "helping" or us through our time, talent and treasure. As a Catholic Christian and political consertative I believe that the government is not the answer (politics does not save us) but that I am personally called to serve those in need.

Mathew;

Who left the door open and let the flies in? Benny is a peice of work. They just keep proving our points over and over. Too sad, I pity the little fellow I hope he gets some much needed medical attention.

jimbjjazzman,

I voted for your post because you bring up a good point. While I do not think that government is always the answer, there are times and circumstances where the government is the only entity that has the power, reach and authority to be the answer or to help with the answer.

People, there is no such thing as 'black and white' except in fashion. As an engineer, it has become very obvious that hybrid answers are the only answers that work over the long term. It is a combination of private and government action that will set things right.

Too little government and you get uncontrolled greed impoverishing people, food poisoning, unfair labor practices and deaths in places like mines and on drilling rigs. Too much government regulation and business does become stiffled. There needs to be a balance. The Republicans want to take us down the road to too little regulation, as has been proven in West Virginia and the gulf, but we need them to help keep the ultra-liberals from taking us too far in the other direction (no, I do not belive the Obama administration is even close to approaching the too much regulation mark).

Should government provide universal medical care and at least some type of guaranteed retirement income? Well, until hospitals are willing to not charge $147 for a single Tylenol pill, until insurance companies stop giving their CEOs multi-million dollar bonuses for record profits generated by high premiums and denial of services that actually cause deaths, until companies bring back retirement plans that are not dependant on the stock market (i.e. 401k plans do NOT qualify), then, yes, government is the place to look to provide at least a basic level of humane human services.

Let the right wing start their attacks!

Ho boy! Delusion, benny-578963 be thy name!

Are you serious? CNN = Fox News Lite. Their interviews and/or comments are always framed with criticism of the President. They let the right speak ad nauseaum and when the left speaks, time is up. How convenient. Liberal media my ass.

There is a book called 'What Liberal Media' by John(?) Alterman(sp?) where he systematically tears down the myth of the liberal media. It is a good read and as relevent today as when it was written over 10 (15?) years ago. Please excuse all of the question marks, this book is also at home in my bookshelf and I'm not there.

Matthew, that would be Eric Alterman and he's a fantastic writer. His blog Altercation is well worth a look, too.

Agreed and thanks, John. I think I've read other books of his but since I read A LOT, it's hard to remember everything and every author.

I am glad you are so noble please donate your excess funds to these causes. please do not leave my children and grandchildren in a third world enviroment because you choose to be noble

In the past few years all we've heard from the Republicans is that global warming is a liberal conspiracy theory, yet there is no arguning with the current changes in the weather scientists are now ascribing to the burning of fossil fuels. (see: 102 degree heatwave in Russia, catastrophic floods in Pakistan.)

In the past election all we heard from Republicans was "Drill Baby Drill" and we were told deep ocean drilling was safe due to new technologies and Democrats were tree hugging extremists for being worried...now, the Gulf is awash in oil and I don't hear Palin/McCain owning up to their mistaken beliefs.

I have no problem with Republican ideology on paper, ie. free markets, limited government, strong defense, etc. But I have a big problem with how Republicans actually govern: billions of dollars literally lost to fraud and mismanagement during the Iraq war, censoring environmental scientists findings on global warming, spending millions of dollars on Republican pet projects, like a sports arena in Wasilla, etc. My question is, when will Republicans own up to their actual performance governing this country?

The proof is in the pudding, not in the philosophy.

Amy - one quick comment. I agree we are adding to global warming. It has its' data, but really....the Iceland volcanic eruption that shut down the airlines earlier this summer produced more CO2 and pollutants and particulate matter in one week, than human-kind (planet-wide) produced over the last decade (10) years. Nature controls 99% of climate change and human kind affects 1%, but I agree, we need to do what we can to reduce our impact, but taxing it? Sounds too political to me.

This is the prettiest thing I have ever read, but not convincing to me. The Republican agenda has always been, "It's all for me and nothing for you." Please, sir, your pretty words are pure bull. First and foremost, . They care nothing for the way people feel about it. To them, environmentalists, conservationists, and animal activists are just domestic terrorists that stand in the way of progress and the "get rich quick" Republican attitude. Republicans also don't believe in helping people achieve their goals of making a better life especially when it comes to helping with finances. , submitting business plan after business plan and have been turned down every time. . With Republicans it's war, war, war as evidenced by the Bush era. I also find that with Republicans, . We are left out in the cold and lumped into one great big ball because of a few that fit the Republican mold of laziness. Republicans spread more lies that FAUX News could in a single news report as evidenced with President Obama and the debate over his religion and this recent mosque issue. No, thanks! I refuse to allow Republicans to color my opinion with their agenda. Left up to them, we will all be wearing gas masks, there will be no trees or wildlife, and America will be just one big oilfield. That is something I don't want to see future generations inherit

Mountainlioness....

First "Republicans care nothing for the environment" - Do you not see the foolishness in that statement???

Second "Republicans also don't believe in helping people achieve their goals of making a better life" - I have never met a single reopublicans/conservative that remotely thinks this!!!

Third " I have been trying for 6 years to secure grant funding to open a business" This is something that many republican/conservatives do not believe, somthing is owed to me........

"I finally had to go to a private entity and am in process of submitting yet another business plan" - Good job, this is the way things are intended to be.......

Fourth as much as most of you hate to hear this, minorities don't have a chance"

OR- could it be that all the others SHARE an audience (of MAINSTREAM viewers), while Fox pretty much corners ALL the conservative, right-wing, tea baqqutte audience??

Geez- y' suppose, Einstein??

BTW-

Jimmy "PEANUT" Carter?? WTF???

What these right wingers who keep bringing up the 'Faux Noise has better ratings' rant ignore is that if you were to combine all of the viewership of the other news channels, Faux Noise loses. e.g. Faux Noise = 30%, everyone else = 70% (numbers are only approximate and used as an example).

Tim, until you understand how statistics actually work, you might want to refrain from trying to use them to prove your point.

Next contestant, please.

Yep . . . real men attack women they don't know on the interwebs . . . what a BIG MAN you are indeed.

lol

IMA Mann, learn how to speak to women and I might believe you are a man

IMA Mann.... REALLY! Could of fooled me! lol

Must be because you're wearing your b@lls for earrings...

Nice touch!

Ima Mann:

You are an impotent weeny.

really? Are you a Gayy Mann?

Real men do not have to go around telling everyone they are a real man, nor do they have to put down women to prove it.

You, sir, are not a real man, just a pathetic excuse of a human disguised as a male of the species.