Ridiculous. What does this have to do with a building being built a few blocks away? If it was being built on ground zero they might have a point but as it stands they have nothing.
They show the people by a window that overlooks ground zero – where in actuality you cannot see ground zero from the community center (aka mosque) or visa versa.
It's close enough that part of the landing gear from the plane piloted by Mohammed Atta on 9/11 crashed through the roof of the Burlington Coat Factory, the building currently occupying the proposed site of the new mosque.
It's close enough that part of the landing gear from the plane piloted by Mohammed Atta on 9/11 crashed through the roof of the Burlington Coat Factory, the building currently occupying the proposed site of the new mosque.
A talking point for which there is no proof ever being offered. The serial numbers to the plane parts recovered have never been matched to the supposed plane.
I understand these peoples pain but they are wrong. Just because they lost love ones on 9/11 does not make them right about this. These people are blaming an entire religion on what happened that day and that is not fair to the 99.9999999% of Muslims that are not associated with Al Qaeda.
I spoke to one more New Yorker today about what this "mosque" was. Where it was really located, what it was going to be used for. His reaction - Really? I didn't know that. I asked him if he knew about the Muslims who have been threatened. He said no, he didn't know.
Cheney, Rove, Gingrich.
Who is this country is more evil than these three? Did their ancestors come to this country just so these 3 stooges could spill their nonstop hateful comments all over the place? Because it seems it's all they know how to do.
Cheney, his daughter nor any one from this organization should say anything about this. Not after what we did in Iraq. Gingrich the same. They don't know what they're talking about. They are arrogant. They are blind. They are full of hate.
If just ONE Muslim said half the things the GOP WHITE CHRISTIAN AMERICANS say, heaven help us all. It would be nonstop news on Fox Propaganda, with just about every single pundit repeating it over and over and over.
As someone on DK said, the terrorists are winning. What their goal was, was to make us afraid. When are we going to open up our hearts and minds? When? Does everything with Gingrich, Rove, Cheney and all the others have to be about hating some one or some group?
The GOP is ruining this country. Fine if people want to turn a blind eye to it. But it's unfair to the children growing up now. They will never have the democracy we grew up with. Never. All because of cowards like Cheney, Rove & Gingrich.
"A lie has speed, but truth has endurance." ~Edgar J. Mohn
Hi dear Fiesty. Glad to be back. Busy @ work, and as you know, under the weather for a while to boot. Ugh. I had no vacation time at all this year and wanted to take a bunch of Fridays off, but couldn't because of work schedule. So I think I got a tad run down.
All is back to normal. Off this Friday and next Friday as well. Yeah! I'm dying for a lobster, steamers, corn on the cob, cole slaw and one big huge icy pitcher of Bud Lite. Can't wait! Maybe even take in a Sox game, finally. Haven't been to a game since I think May.
After all the "wrong" that old Cheney did to We the Peeple of the United States and the rest of the World it takes a set of brass ones for any body named Cheney or any body assoiciated with any thing Cheney to say that any thing is wrong.
Can anyone tell me who Liz Cheney is? Is she some past political figure who has done good works for this country or some city, state administrator who fillled a leadership role and perfomed good works for her state or community? Is she highly eductaed in mid-eastern affaris and has been used by past administrations in an advisory capacity that helped to direct this country's middle east policies? Just who is Liz Cheney and how are her comments or opinions worth any more than your average citizen as yourself and me?
Her comments aren't worth any more or less than yours, CA. Neither are Harry Reid's, Nancy Pelosi's or Barack Obama's. Our opinions about this issue come from equal status. You and I will just have to deal with whatever it is, or has been, that has conferred higher visibility to others.
I'm guessing I could say the same about Michael Moore or Al Franken. Lots of opinions from them that I think are bullsh** but there is no clear qualifications in their backgrounds that make their opinions more meaningful than any dozen of my close personal friends no one has ever heard of.
One of the finest moments of Obama’s presidency- Greg Sargent
A few quick thoughts about Obama’s forceful speech yesterday expressing strong support for Cordoba House, which will go down as one of the finest moments of his presidency.
Obama didn’t just stand up for the legal right of the group to build the Islamic center. He voiced powerful support for their moral right to do so as well, casting it as central to American identity. This is a critical point, and it goes to the the essence of why his speech was so commendable.
Many opponents of the project have been employing a clever little dodge. They say they don’t question the group’s legal right to build it under the Constitution. Rather, they say, they’re merely criticizing the group’s decision to do so, on the grounds that it’s insensitive to 9/11 families and will undercut the project’s goal of reconciliation. The group has the right to build the center, runs this argument, but they are wrong to exercise it. In response, Obama could have merely cast this dispute as a Constitutional issue, talked about how important it is to hew to that hallowed document, and moved on.
But Obama went much further than that. He asserted that we must “welcome” and “respect” those of other faiths, suggesting that the group behind the center deserves the same, and said flat out that anything less is un-American . . . .
"As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure."
Obama's core declaration here is as simple and clear a statement about what's really at stake in this fight as one could have asked for. Obama argued that an "unshakable" devotion to the notion that all faiths are "welcome" is "essential to who we are," thus casting this as a larger argument over the bedrock moral principles that are the foundation of American identity.
Obama issued this statement in the full knowledge that his opponents have been itching for him to wade into this battle. The right is engaged in a concerted effort to make it politically toxic to stand up for the rights of Muslims -- and to simultaneously insinuate that Obama is on "their" side, and not on ours. This dispute fits the bill perfectly. It's the stuff of Liz Cheney's dreams. Polls show overwhelming opposition to the project, and as Glenn Greenwald notes, there would have been no political downside to sidestepping this morass.
Yet Obama entered the fray anyway, in dramatic fashion, asserting that our identy rests on "our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect towards those who are different from us." Crucially, Obama also cast support for the religious freedom of Muslim Americans as key to winning the battle with Al Qaeda, even as he hailed the service of Muslim Americans in our military. In so doing, Obama directly confronted the demagoguery at the core of much of the opposition to this project.
Republicans are reportedly gleeful that Obama entered this dispute. Maybe they're right to be gleeful: Obama's entry will only further stoke passions and ensure that the battle continues, perhaps to his political detriment. But in another sense, this couldn't have come at a better time for Obama. His core supporters, frustrated, were badly in need of a display of presidential spine. They got one.
Ultimately, though, Obama's speech transcends the politics of the moment, and will go down as a defining and perhaps even a breakthrough performance. Obama recognized that this dispute is a seminal one that goes to the core of our running argument about pluralism and minority rights and to the core of who we are. He understood that the gravity of the moment required an equally large and momentous response. And he delivered.
Well said Pat. Anytime 350 million people to suggest to people 7 million people that "you have the right, but we think it's insensitive and you should reconsider" that's just bullying.
Wait, wait, wait... I just read the article by Greg Sargent above. Look at this quote:
Rather, they say, they're merely criticizing the group's decision to do so, on the grounds that it's insensitive to 9/11 families and will undercut the project's goal of reconciliation.
Got that? "Insensitive." What are conservatives always yammering about "politically correctness" and such? And what exactly are they doing there? Being "politically correct." To the families. Never mind that pesky Constitutional issue. They are being "politically correct."
So the next time you hear one talking about "political correctness" just point out "NYC MOSQUE."
cheney and his group wouldn't recognize the first amendment to our constitution if it SLAPPED THEM IN THE FACE !!! as a WAR CRIMINAL cheney should express no opinion about FREEDOM OF RELIGION !!!
Who would of guessed that the Cheney's are against the Bill of Rights. Could it be that they already trampled on the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizures (illegal wiretapping), the 8th Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment (waterboarding)?
Ridiculous. What does this have to do with a building being built a few blocks away? If it was being built on ground zero they might have a point but as it stands they have nothing.
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
They show the people by a window that overlooks ground zero – where in actuality you can not see ground zero from the community center (aka mosque) or visa versa.
It's close enough that part of the landing gear from the plane piloted by Mohammed Atta on 9/11 crashed through the roof of the Burlington Coat Factory, the building currently occupying the proposed site of the new mosque.
Talking Point du Jour.
A talking point for which there is no proof ever being offered. The serial numbers to the plane parts recovered have never been matched to the supposed plane.
I understand these peoples pain but they are wrong. Just because they lost love ones on 9/11 does not make them right about this. These people are blaming an entire religion on what happened that day and that is not fair to the 99.9999999% of Muslims that are not associated with Al Qaeda.
....in addition to the fact that American Muslims lost loved ones on that day.
Lizard Cheney and Bill Kristol should we have expected anything else.
And you are correct LIZard, we do remember!...but, it's not what you think!
You took the words right out of my mouth, chilled.
I spoke to one more New Yorker today about what this "mosque" was. Where it was really located, what it was going to be used for. His reaction - Really? I didn't know that. I asked him if he knew about the Muslims who have been threatened. He said no, he didn't know.
Cheney, Rove, Gingrich.
Who is this country is more evil than these three? Did their ancestors come to this country just so these 3 stooges could spill their nonstop hateful comments all over the place? Because it seems it's all they know how to do.
Cheney, his daughter nor any one from this organization should say anything about this. Not after what we did in Iraq. Gingrich the same. They don't know what they're talking about. They are arrogant. They are blind. They are full of hate.
If just ONE Muslim said half the things the GOP WHITE CHRISTIAN AMERICANS say, heaven help us all. It would be nonstop news on Fox Propaganda, with just about every single pundit repeating it over and over and over.
As someone on DK said, the terrorists are winning. What their goal was, was to make us afraid. When are we going to open up our hearts and minds? When? Does everything with Gingrich, Rove, Cheney and all the others have to be about hating some one or some group?
The GOP is ruining this country. Fine if people want to turn a blind eye to it. But it's unfair to the children growing up now. They will never have the democracy we grew up with. Never. All because of cowards like Cheney, Rove & Gingrich.
"A lie has speed, but truth has endurance." ~Edgar J. Mohn
Hi Pat!
Didn't get a chance to say thanks for the encouraging words earlier this morning!
Can't tell you how happy I am to see you back...
Hi dear Fiesty. Glad to be back. Busy @ work, and as you know, under the weather for a while to boot. Ugh. I had no vacation time at all this year and wanted to take a bunch of Fridays off, but couldn't because of work schedule. So I think I got a tad run down.
All is back to normal. Off this Friday and next Friday as well. Yeah! I'm dying for a lobster, steamers, corn on the cob, cole slaw and one big huge icy pitcher of Bud Lite. Can't wait! Maybe even take in a Sox game, finally. Haven't been to a game since I think May.
Ahhh the joys of back to normal.
We still have to sit down and share that bowl of New England clam chowder some time!
Although now that you've gone and brought up the 'bake' I may have to rethink my position. ;0)
Take care my friend!
After all the "wrong" that old Cheney did to We the Peeple of the United States and the rest of the World it takes a set of brass ones for any body named Cheney or any body assoiciated with any thing Cheney to say that any thing is wrong.
Always remember 9/11.......was an inside job. Brought to you by Dick Cheney and company.
Can anyone tell me who Liz Cheney is? Is she some past political figure who has done good works for this country or some city, state administrator who fillled a leadership role and perfomed good works for her state or community? Is she highly eductaed in mid-eastern affaris and has been used by past administrations in an advisory capacity that helped to direct this country's middle east policies? Just who is Liz Cheney and how are her comments or opinions worth any more than your average citizen as yourself and me?
Daddy got her a job at the State department. She serves us only to have us mis-remember 9/11/2001.
She is a nobody...Former state department employee is how she is introduced. She was Daddys spy in the State Department.
Let her keep talking.....so that WE THE PEOPLE NEVER FORGET!
Ummm I dunno... closet I can come to is the spawn of Satan himself!
Her comments aren't worth any more or less than yours, CA. Neither are Harry Reid's, Nancy Pelosi's or Barack Obama's. Our opinions about this issue come from equal status. You and I will just have to deal with whatever it is, or has been, that has conferred higher visibility to others.
I'm guessing I could say the same about Michael Moore or Al Franken. Lots of opinions from them that I think are bullsh** but there is no clear qualifications in their backgrounds that make their opinions more meaningful than any dozen of my close personal friends no one has ever heard of.
One of the finest moments of Obama’s presidency- Greg Sargent
A few quick thoughts about Obama’s forceful speech yesterday expressing strong support for Cordoba House, which will go down as one of the finest moments of his presidency.
Obama didn’t just stand up for the legal right of the group to build the Islamic center. He voiced powerful support for their moral right to do so as well, casting it as central to American identity. This is a critical point, and it goes to the the essence of why his speech was so commendable.
Many opponents of the project have been employing a clever little dodge. They say they don’t question the group’s legal right to build it under the Constitution. Rather, they say, they’re merely criticizing the group’s decision to do so, on the grounds that it’s insensitive to 9/11 families and will undercut the project’s goal of reconciliation. The group has the right to build the center, runs this argument, but they are wrong to exercise it. In response, Obama could have merely cast this dispute as a Constitutional issue, talked about how important it is to hew to that hallowed document, and moved on.
But Obama went much further than that. He asserted that we must “welcome” and “respect” those of other faiths, suggesting that the group behind the center deserves the same, and said flat out that anything less is un-American . . . .
"As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure."
Obama's core declaration here is as simple and clear a statement about what's really at stake in this fight as one could have asked for. Obama argued that an "unshakable" devotion to the notion that all faiths are "welcome" is "essential to who we are," thus casting this as a larger argument over the bedrock moral principles that are the foundation of American identity.
Obama issued this statement in the full knowledge that his opponents have been itching for him to wade into this battle. The right is engaged in a concerted effort to make it politically toxic to stand up for the rights of Muslims -- and to simultaneously insinuate that Obama is on "their" side, and not on ours. This dispute fits the bill perfectly. It's the stuff of Liz Cheney's dreams. Polls show overwhelming opposition to the project, and as Glenn Greenwald notes, there would have been no political downside to sidestepping this morass.
Yet Obama entered the fray anyway, in dramatic fashion, asserting that our identy rests on "our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect towards those who are different from us." Crucially, Obama also cast support for the religious freedom of Muslim Americans as key to winning the battle with Al Qaeda, even as he hailed the service of Muslim Americans in our military. In so doing, Obama directly confronted the demagoguery at the core of much of the opposition to this project.
Republicans are reportedly gleeful that Obama entered this dispute. Maybe they're right to be gleeful: Obama's entry will only further stoke passions and ensure that the battle continues, perhaps to his political detriment. But in another sense, this couldn't have come at a better time for Obama. His core supporters, frustrated, were badly in need of a display of presidential spine. They got one.
Ultimately, though, Obama's speech transcends the politics of the moment, and will go down as a defining and perhaps even a breakthrough performance. Obama recognized that this dispute is a seminal one that goes to the core of our running argument about pluralism and minority rights and to the core of who we are. He understood that the gravity of the moment required an equally large and momentous response. And he delivered.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/obama_takes_on_the_demagogues.html?hpid=topnews
In matters of style, swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~Thomas Jefferson
Well said Pat. Anytime 350 million people to suggest to people 7 million people that "you have the right, but we think it's insensitive and you should reconsider" that's just bullying.
I sincerely hope that this doesn't actually end up as one of his finest moments. I'm really looking for more.
Wait, wait, wait... I just read the article by Greg Sargent above. Look at this quote:
Got that? "Insensitive." What are conservatives always yammering about "politically correctness" and such? And what exactly are they doing there? Being "politically correct." To the families. Never mind that pesky Constitutional issue. They are being "politically correct."
So the next time you hear one talking about "political correctness" just point out "NYC MOSQUE."
cheney and his group wouldn't recognize the first amendment to our constitution if it SLAPPED THEM IN THE FACE !!! as a WAR CRIMINAL cheney should express no opinion about FREEDOM OF RELIGION !!!
Who would of guessed that the Cheney's are against the Bill of Rights. Could it be that they already trampled on the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizures (illegal wiretapping), the 8th Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment (waterboarding)?
What does it mean to be a Republican vs. a Democrat? Just read the callous and uncaring posts from democrats in this comment section.
Sorry bass, I guess we're just ridiculously intolerant of lying, bigotry, and bullying. It's a weakness I know.