Keeping it short & to the point this morning;

Happy Birthday Mr. President… Happy Birthday to YOU!

Welcome home Mr. President – I can’t think of a BETTER place to celebrate than ‘sweet’ home Chicago!

Of course… this is going to bring the birther’s out from under their proverbial rock & a hard place! lol

Ron,

Great post to start the morning. The republicans seem to be all over the place lately. They cannot stop the HCR Bill so the new tactic is to try and stop funding in the Congress. It appears that this bill will be headed to the Supreme Court. Another reason why a Public Option should have been included. I blame our weak need politiciansfor not seeing this through while the HCR has a ton of good stuff in it, much will be implemented this year, he PO would have stopped some of this time consuming nonsense.

Another note in passing:

Critics of President Obama continue to assert that President George W. Bush’s policies bear little responsibility for the deficits the nation faces over the coming decade — that, instead, the new policies of President Obama and the 111^thCongress are to blame. Most recently, a Heritage Foundation paper downplayed the role of Bush-era policies which has been pretty much debunked by fact check and Politifact.com Nevertheless, the fact remains: Together with the economic downturn, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq explain virtually the entire deficit over the next decade.

The deficit for fiscal year 2009 was $1.4 trillion and, at nearly 10 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), was the largest deficit relative to the size of the economy since the end of World War II. If current policies are continued without changes (like keeping the unfunded Tax Cuts, 2 Unfunded Wars etc leftover from the Bush Reign), deficits will likely approach those figures in 2010 and remain near $1 trillion a year for the next decade.

The events and policies that have pushed deficits to these high levels in the near term, however, were largely outside the new Administration’s control. If not for the tax cuts enacted during the presidency of George W. Bush that Congress did not pay for, the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that were initiated during that period, and the effects of the worst economic slump since the Great Depression (including the cost of steps necessary to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term.

Thank you Republicans.

Good Morning Navy: It's really hard to take the GOP serious...even when I want to.

Ron, Really and you can take the Democrats seriously?

Ron, IR;

Did you see Rachael last night. Good show, some of her comments were almost copies of several of the posts from this board over the last few days.

It is amazing on the amount of junk coming from across the aisle the last few days. They like to quote old irrelevant historical data but offer NO ideas other than their rants. We all pretty much figured the republican paid hacks would step up their rhetoric, they have.

They still offer nothing of substance, will not take ownership of creating the biggest financial disaster in our modern history, and try to blame President Obama, who appears to be the only one try ing to get his country on solid ground again.

The events and policies that have pushed deficits to these high levels in the near term, however, were largely outside the new Administration’s control. If not for the tax cuts enacted during the presidency of George W. Bush that Congress did not pay for, the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that were initiated during that period, and the effects of the worst economic slump since the Great Depression (including the cost of steps necessary to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term.

Same old whine for the Left. If the Bush tax cuts were just so damn evil, why hasn't Obama done anything about them in his nearly two years in office? He could have had his minions Nancy and Harry pass legislation repealing those tax cuts on day one of his administration. Even now Obama is talking about EXTENDING those tax cuts, except for the "rich" who it turns out are the small business owners of the country, you know, the ones that hire the most people. Think raising taxes on the small business owners will compel them to hire?

And lets talk about that trillion dollar so-called stimulus Obama pushed through last year. How man jobs has that created again? Oh, we lost 2.5 million instead of creating any? Yeah, that's George Bush's fault too.

Grow up.

Navy:

It's fun to beat the 24 hour news cycle by first posting it on FR. Your comments are spot-on.

JoAnna: AKA Selfish Red head.

See you came to work on time. 9 to 5 Off on weekends. I assume you are getting minimum wage...because that's about what your comments are worth.

Ron Indiana

JoAnna: AKA Selfish Red head.

See you came to work on time. 9 to 5 Off on weekends. I assume you are getting minimum wage...because that's about what your comments are worth.

Morning Ron. Happy Wednesday to you.
You lib types sure think about me a lot, about what I do, and about when I do it. I don't think about you lefties at all. Couldn't care less actually. You're not worth the time, nor the effort.
Have a nice day Ron.

But poor JoAnna sure worries enough about it that she responds to you, Ron!

JoAnnaSmith:

Same old whine for the Left. If the Bush tax cuts were just so damn evil, why hasn't Obama done anything about them in his nearly two years in office?

Who said they were "evil"? Nobody here that I recall. You're just making stuff up like a good loyal wingnut. The tax cuts for the wealthy are not intrinsically evil, but I they do blow a $670 billion hole in the budget, which Republicans would view as evil if it didn't benefit their corporate clients.

Ron,

There appears that there is one person that does not even know what day it is, and we are supposed to take her comments seriously???

I have been noticing for awhile that our posts her are being parroted in other places. Did not someone say that imitation is the greatest compliment??

I don't think about you lefties at all. Couldn't care less actually. You're not worth the time, nor the effort

___________________

Shocking isn't it Ron?

The large mouth a@@ found it necessary to respond! The liberals here @ FR have her 'number' on speed dial! lol

The old broad sure is a healthy helping of hypocisy if there ever was one!

Oh and... on another note... she couldn't care less - but her primary function here is lead attack dog against liberals!

You just can't make this stuff up! lmao ;0)))

Hey, Ron? Get a new string on that violin-the one you keep playing just annoys with its high pitched whine.

government jobs, while they may put money in the pockets of the hacks that hold them, DO NOT add value to the economy-and they suck money out by causing the government to increase both taxes and borrowing. THAT is what is wrong with the economy. The economy is also not helped when the government picks winners and losers-and very few are helped by spending millions to put iPhones in the hands of Utah schoolchildren, among other acts of waste by the so-called 'stimulous' program.

As to the idea of treason charges against Private Manning-facts are facts, and the leaking of these documents put the lives of American personnel, as well as those Afghanis who are cooperating with us, at risk. It helps the enemy identify our plans, and those who are helping us. THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF TREASON. He should be tried for treason, and if convicted, suffer the penalty. You have a problem with that? Too bad.

For weeks now, the liberal posters on this board have been crowing that opposition to the HCR is declining-seems you were wrong about that, too. 71%-seventy-one per cent- of Missouri voters expressed their view about HCR, and it was NOT that they supported it. This has only been the first vote on the subject; I can guarantee you that it would go down in flames everywhere and anywhere it was put to a vote. So much for using THAT stick to pummel Republicans with-it flies back and wonks Democrats on the noggin instead.

National security under Obama is a joke. They replaced a program to identify and detain suspected terrorist with a program that is still not implemented-as was proven in the aftermath of the Christmas Day bomber. This administration does not understand that-according to Napolitano,the system worked perfectly. I guess it did-if the system depends on bombers failing to explode their bombs,and airline passengers tackling them and keeping them from doing more harm.

Why has the media ignored the Justice Department defying congressional subpoenas calling for information on who stopped the investigation into the Fort Hood shooter? Who did stop that investigation,when,and why? Aren't you in the least bit curious, or do you simply accept that whatever Obama does,he does for the best?

Immigration does not have to be the impossible issue it is-but BOTH parties are to blame for that. Bush put forth an immigration bill that BOTH parties hated-but Obama has put for NOTHING,ZILCH,NADA, except exploring the concept of slamming through a policy absent the congress. There is a name for leaders who do things like that-despot.

Yesterday, USAToday/Gallup poll was released. 41%-forty-one per cent-approve of Obama's administration-53% disapprove. With job approval numbers like that, his party is going to suffer. Clinton faced a similar referendum on his policies-and learned from his mistakes. If you think Obama is going to do the same,think again. Ideologues are incapable of that kind of critical thinking-and narcissists less so. In combination, they render a person incapable of EVER admitting their errors.

Hopefully, he'll get so mad he'll take his marbles and go home.

JoAnna,

As I have pointed out to you before – Under Bush there was a net 11 million jobs LOST – and you wonder why unemployment is high and stubborn. And yes the 2.5 million jobs lost are on the back of Bush. His policies put the US on the verge of a total economic collapse.

Obama didn’t cut taxes then and may not now because of the recession – and you already knew this.

There is NO evidence what-so-ever that the tax cuts to the rich business owners will create any jobs – they did not create ANY jobs over the last 9.5 years, did they?

No Jo

Just skip over the first few posts and you will feel better.

Wow, Ron-typical, well thought out response to my post. Way to go!

Yea, NO JO....Wonder if clara from kansas city is happy this morning? I know I am. Seems like 71 percent of the people in Missouri are not like her..........THANK GOODNESS.

71% DO NOT want the govt. running health care, what a shocker. I guess the libs haven't been listening...................in another 90 days, they will get another lesson.

No joe... great post.

Ron, I agree with No joe, typicall left wing deflection when you can't support your opinions with facts. Especially regarding the vote in Missouri for the health care mandate. 71% were against it. I noticed that the article didn't post the percentatge but rather said it was supported by a 3-1 margin.

Dennis,

Nice post. The repugs just are in denial. More and more people I speak with every day are starting the recognize them for the obstructionist they are. One of my clients just threw out the rep from NFIB yesterday. My client asked her some specific questions that the lady did not respond to, gave him a sheet of paper with some talking points.

These people like JoAnnaS and Joe from Albany and many new comers lately, are just on this site to try and get under your skin. They are pretty much like those flies of late Summer that come out in droves. We call them up here in the north country "do seems". You do not see each individual one but in a group they sure are annoying.

Ignore them. They just are not worth the time in most cases.

So sorry to hear that, Ron. We were having pancakes at Daily Kos. A very pleasant evening among liberal friends. You should have joined us. Nothing here is new, of course, except the calls for execution. Their bloodthirst is never quenched, I guess. Kill the opposition so that we can go on killing American soldiers, for fun and mostly for profit. And all from the comfort of our own easy chairs.

I especially love how republicans have morphed immigration into a "security" issue, which vaguely suggests that illegal immigrants are likely to be terrorists. That suggestion certainly appears in no joe's post. Someone needs to remind no joe and the rest that all of the September 11 hijackers were here legally, as was Timothy McVeigh, of course.

As for health care, if it were a better bill, I'd be more upset about the Missouri thing. It is possible for reasonable people to oppose it, especially the mandate, the sole purpose of which is to ensure that insurance companies will achieve a windfall. On the other hand, most of those folks probably don't even know what they're opposing, and that's what really frightens me.

Well, that and no joe. ;)

Good morning, all.

no joe,

There are a couple things to consider whey you talk about HCR. The opposition is declining but that is a general opinion about what it does. Where the opposition remains higher is on the Mandate and how to pay for it. It does not matter what the states vote because it will be up to the courts. The legality and constitutionally will be considered – not public opinion. Let the courts decide.

You know perfectly well that what Janet Napolitano was talking about was the actions taken after the attempt – please stop using Republican talking points – use your brains.

You watch too much Glenn Beck.

On immigration – The President has asked Congress to take up the issue this year and no President has done more to protect the border.

As I pointed out to you yester, 41% is the same percentage that both Reagan and Clinton had at 18 months into their administration.

I see no joe all blow has nothing to say this morning, so he's back on his rant about the President resigning. What no joe all blow didn't have time to watch Fox last night to get your daily talking points?

And for your information no joe all blow and the rest of you teabagging republicans, yesterdays vote on HCR in Missouri 90% of the voters were Republicans us Democrats didn't have anything races go to the polls for. So to be honest it was just 70% of the teabagger republicans that were for prop C, that means 30% of your buddies were against it. Looks to me like you teabagger republicans will get a lesson in 90 days.

It bears mentioning that the one part of HCR that bothers people, the one that the MO referendum is aimed at, the coverage mandate, was one that REPUBLICANS INSISTED MUST BE IN THE BILL. It came out of the months of ridiculous "bipartisan negotiation" and no doubt was an attempt at a poison pill. Of course Mitt Romney is building his entire reputation in the health care area on a statewide mandate.

One more reason why the Republicans should be irrelevent to the process. On the rare occasion that they seek to participate they saddle the resulting bills with things that the public hates.

Anna Molly:

Pancakes, whipcream, and Door County cherries. Yep, I should have been there. After doing my homework I did swing on the vine. You should have seen it.

Mo:

No Jo is not a male, yep a female.

"The economy is also not helped when the government picks winners and losers-and very few are helped by spending millions to put iPhones in the hands of Utah schoolchildren, among other acts of waste by the so-called 'stimulous' program."

No Joe, what are you talking about!!!? Utah is the most 'red' state in the nation! I live here in Salt Lake City, Utah, there is no possible way your statement holds up. That is the most ridiculous statement on this board this morning.

Not only do I live here in Utah, I am also a Utah educator by profession. There is no such thing as spending millions to put IPhones in the hands of schoolchildren, unless it is done by thier parents who are footing the bill.

You are doing nothing to help the GOP with stupid statements like that. Who's side are your on? No wonder no one takes the GOP seriously!

The republicans rant: Where are the jobs? They also demand that the rich keep their tax cuts so they can create jobs.

How many jobs have the tax cuts created during the past 9yrs?

Wish I had, Ron. But I think you peeked. ;)

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio

JoAnna,

As I have pointed out to you before – Under Bush there was a net 11 million jobs LOST – and you wonder why unemployment is high and stubborn. And yes the 2.5 million jobs lost are on the back of Bush. His policies put the US on the verge of a total economic collapse.

Obama didn’t cut taxes then and may not now because of the recession – and you already knew this.

There is NO evidence what-so-ever that the tax cuts to the rich business owners will create any jobs – they did not create ANY jobs over the last 9.5 years, did they?

Well, if tax cuts didn't produce jobs, then raising taxes shouldn't harm the job market. So what you're trying to tell us is that tax cuts/increases really don't affect the job market. Well then, what then does affect the job market because we really aren't seeing the jobs market grow now are we Dennis?

Here is some helpful hints you may want to think about as to why the job market is tanking: 1) Too much and wasted government deficit spending 2) Too many government takeovers of private businesses, like banks, insurance companies, and automakers. 3) An Obama administration that doesn't miss a chance to attack corporate America about anything under the sun. 4) The adding of a trillion dollar entitlement (ObamaCare) to the tax burden for both businesses and people to pay for. 5) Over regulation of Wall Street.

Feel free to add your own.

Ramboet

How many jobs have the tax cuts created during the past 9yrs?

How many? Not many. But it saved millions of jobs.

"It was a quiet evening so I began to scan the news and give some time and thought to what the Republicans are doing. "

Ron, if my life sucked as much as yours must, I would have gotten out the 12 guage and blown my head off years ago.

LOL!!!

A 12 gauge shotgun in someone's mouth is so very funny Joe. F@#$ing idiot.

"JoAnnaSmith

Ramboet

How many jobs have the tax cuts created during the past 9yrs?

How many? Not many. But it saved millions of jobs."

Hilarious! From the QUEEN of "If the stimulus worked where are all the jobs?"

Joe,

It is not too late. need some shells, I will send some in case you miss the first time.

"JoAnnaSmith

Ramboet

How many jobs have the tax cuts created during the past 9yrs?

How many? Not many. But it saved millions of jobs."

Thanks Joanna..............I rest my case.

Joe:

You define yourself by what you say. Killing the opposition is the thinking of minutemen, militia, Patriots, andTea Party members. I think you have now defined yourself...and it ain't pretty.

redmaple: you claim to live in Utah-I guess that you simply don't read newspapers.

the Salt Lake Tribune ran an article on the stimulous funding being used to provide students, (all 1600 of them) in Kearns High Schol with IPhones-seems that the school is failing, so they think giving students toys will somehow help. Oh, yeah-students in Northwest Middle School in Salt lake City will ALSO get IPhones-partnership with Kearns H.S.

There's more: millions to re-furbish an abandoned train station in New Jersey-on top of millions provided by the government in 2002, when it appeared that it would be brought on line. Never happened, it will remain defunct, but instead of spending a couple thousand to tear it down, it will be made into a state of the art station-for no passengers.

Or the millions being spent on new windows for a facility on Mount Saint Helen-that has been closed since 2007, with NO PANS TO RE-OPEN.

Need more? read "Summertime Blues", a report of the one hundred worst stimulous fund expenditures, released yesterday.

I doubt that you are interested-rah rah Obama is all you are interested in-but others are, and those others vote.

In droves.

Against Obama's party in November.

Oh, and redmapale? I just re-read your post. No wonder students in SLC are failing:

"Who's side are your on?"

I'll give you the 'your' as a typo---however, 'who's' is the contraction for 'who is'. When asking what side a person is taking, the proper word is 'whose', as in , whose coat is this? or Whose side are you on-actually, properly. "On whose side are you" so that the participle is not dangling.

I guess English is not your subject.

The only people who find it hard to take the Republicans seriously are the Progressives. The people of Missouri are not finding it hard to accept one Republican point. Repeal the Health Care Law. They voted 73% in favor of that one. Not very close in that vote. If you continue to use only Progressive or Left leaning news sources, you won't ever get the Republican points of action. Because those sites and channels just don't report on them. Then they says the Republicans don't have any. Let me help you with a couple. 1) Cut taxes to boost economic growth as Reagan did and it worked. Sort of self explanatory. 2) Stop the spending! Again sort of self explanatory. Cut the budget to where it was before the wars. But instead of going on and on. Just go to Rep. Paul Ryan(WI) web site:

http://paulryan.house.gov/Issues/

He lays out the Republican plan for each issue very well. Now you can't say the Republicans have no ideas. That Democratic talking point is getting very old.

Dear NO and JO, (Gee, it just dawned on my how appropriate "NO's" name is...)

Does the NRC fax you your talking points each morning?

Just wondering.

It's probably a troll thing and as a newbie to the blogosphere I just wanted to know.

See, nobody provides me with my talking points, like Will Rogers said, I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a democrat. We don't tend to march in lock step so much.

But I've noticed that you folks (No, Jo, and Mo) all seem to have the same misinformation all the time. Are you all watching the same programs and listening to Rush, Glenn and Laura, she-wolf of the SS, together or does the NRC provide you with today's discussion points when you show up for work at the boiler room?

Just wonderin'

PEACE

Considering that ONLY 14% of the populace actually voted for Prop C I hardly think that is a majority of the populace. Sounds like just the hard core Repubs and Tea Baggers voted for it, especially since there were hardly any Dems voting there this time around. If it had been held during the actual Mid Term election there would most likely be a much different turnout.

Dennis, first of all, the 8 million jobs lost number(not 11.5 million) is the official Dept of Labor number. The only way the Dems come to that number is if they credit every job lost to Bush and ignor the sub prime mess as having any contributing factor. But most know that sub prime loan were the impetus of the collapse and almost took the market with it. Sub primes were started in 1993 under Clinton. When Bush wanted to clean them up along with Freddie and Fannie, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank , and Maxine Waters blocked him in Congress. So it blew up just as a said and created the start of the recession with heavy unemployment. But Democrats still want to blame Bush for the sub prime mess even though their fingerprints are all over it. The facts are the facts.

There is another option to letting the court settle the HCR debate. That is what the people of Missouri indicated yesterday. We can repeal the whole thing and start over. The individual mandate is the heart of the Democratic HCR. If everyone has the option to opt out, then this law is worthless. Anyone can say they don't want to be included.

On immigration, you are missing the point. The American people passed immigration reform once before in the '80's with the promised to secure the borders. We gave 2 million people amnesty and Congress never passed the funds to secure the border. Now the American people are saying we have heard that one before and were fooled by Washington. This MUST secure the border first then we can talk about reform. Until then it is no deal. Notice I didn't say Democratic or Republican because both are at fault in this one, including Bush. Secure the border, period !!

The problem is that Progressives like you, Obama, and Democrats have stopped listening to the American people. They are listened to the 25% of Americans which are Progressive. That is what have them in trouble. The Republicans have, at least, started to listen to Americans. That explains McCain and other flip flopping on Immigration. If the Democrats don't listen to the votes in Virginia, Mass., and Missouri, they will lose by the same percentages in November. Yes America is angry at incumbents. But the Republicans are at least perceived as listening on some level.

"You define yourself by what you say. Killing the opposition is the thinking of minutemen, militia, Patriots, andTea Party members. I think you have now defined yourself...and it ain't pretty."

Ron, I think you might better spend your idle hours taking a reading comprehension course instead of thinking about "what Republcan's are doing". Go back to my post and tell me where you get ANYTHING about "Killing the opposition"?? Moron.

Ray, the myth that the White House "forced" banks to lend money to people who couldn't pay it back is, was, and always has been a fabrication http://washingtonindependent.com/34376/battling-the-cra-myth but like a zombie it just won't die.

And the vote in MO had nothing to do with repealing HCR...it had to do with repealing the individual mandate, a provision that Mitt Romney has built his "reputation" for health care expertise on and that Republicans insisted on when they were pretending to bargain in good faith...before voting against it.

Joe In Albany: Shotgun Joe...your new name from now on. You are one sick puppy.

Very clever, Ron. Did Eric help you with that one or did you think it up all by yourself?? Moron.

No Joe, when you're reduced to correcting other people's typos and English, you've lost your case.

John B, excellent points

and a follow up point. States pass laws all the time. Or attempt to circumvent established Federal Law,...That is why we have a Supreme Court. Let's see Eric Holder smack this down. There is NO accounting for a lack of personal responsibility by the party of personal responsibility. None. We all remember the tea bagger that got in the fight at that town hall in St. Louis last summer, right? Yep, Uninsured AND treated at a local hospital. Wonder if anyone followed up to see if he paid that bill? I am SURE he did the right thing. Heavy on the SNARKASM

There are many bad Republicans but there are no good Democrats.

(Ann Coulter)

Don't put me in the same basket with no joe all blow Skippy, sounds like you part of the teabagger community.

No Jo—

Oops, Silly me. I misspelled a word. Certainly that makes my earlier post invalid and I am very stupid...

Yes, I do read the newspapers (even with my obvious illiteracy problem in making a spelling error) I can and do read. The article you are referring to is in yesterday's Salt Lake Tribune. However it is referring to IPODs not ‘IPhones’.

Ok Jo…here's what you are refering to --[Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., released the third report in a series Tuesday identifying 100 questionable stimulus projects nationwide. Among the projects listed was Kearns High School’s plan to use a $1 million Enhancing Education Through Technology grant to give all its roughly 1,600 students iPod touches this school year.

Kearns High leaders say students will download applications to use during lessons, use the iPods to take notes, do research on the Internet and read their English textbooks on them. They will use the handheld devices during class, take them home after school and keep them after they graduate.

“When you can engage a student, get them involved in the learning process, the learning process is much more successful,” said Ben Horsley, Granite School District spokesman. “This is the future.”--Salt Lake Tribune, August 3, 2010]

How much do you think an IPod costs? Millions? I think not. Yesterday, when I first read this article I wondered if the newspaper made a typo and meant to say IPADs rather than IPODs. In case you do not know, the IPAD is a new internet/word processing device (yes, there are other applications as well for the IPAD but the primary use is for internet and word processing). They cost around $500 for basic IPAD units and Kearns High is probably getting the usual Apple discount for educational use. Even if all 1600 are purchased, at $500 each that's $800,000-- less than one million $$$. However, if indeed they are using the simpler IPODs as the article says, rather than the newer IPADs, the costs will significantly decrease to less than 1/2 million $$$. Also by using the IPODs for textbook use, as the article indicates, there will be dollars SAVED from the text book budget to off-set some of the IPOD costs. Leave it to McCain and Colburn to blow it out of proportion.

The purpose of these devices is for classroom (and yes, for home) use to access EDUCATIONAL material from the internet and as word processors. Kearns High School is in quite a low income area of Salt Lake City, but serves many bright students who would otherwise have little access to EDUCATIONAL material on the internet at school, or technology available to them at home. The computer lab at this school is indeed limited and the use of other technological devices to serve these students is truly warranted.

Hummmm, McCain and Colburn do not mention the tax $$$ used for technology at other (more prominent) public schools around the country--oh say... maybe the schools THIER kids/grandkids go to. With the cash McCain has there is no way he would allow his kids to go to Kearns High. Rather than allow his kids to go to a low income public school like Kearns, he’d most likely pay to put them in private schools.

Once again, the Republicans favor the rich, not those students in lower income areas. These IPODs (not IPhones) are indeed valid educational tools, NOT toys. But then, of course those low income kids don't need quality education--let them get out and work for their money rather than going to a public school that offers positive use of technology. It's far too many tax dollars to even attempt to teach them better skills for a brighter future. After all they're just moochers anyway looking for a government handout.

"No Joe, when you're reduced to correcting other people's typos and English, you've lost your case."

Jody, what kind of drugs are you on??

LOL!!!

MO

Ease up on Skip - he's one of ours; I think several people were speaking to MOM2BE yesterday and calling her MO,...Just my take,...

IR, I was thinking along the same line as you. Voted!!

From yesterdays thread, there was a discussion on the fourteenth amendment and while I agree with Larry, Minot, N.D. about the need to look at whether the amendment be removed, I come to this from an entirely different direction.

Larry sees the amendment as a threat because he thinks that it is an avenue by which illegal aliens become legal citizens.

The 14th amendment has five sections.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This section says nothing in respect to those not born or naturalized here.

Section 2 deals with how the male over 21 years of age citizens are counted and how representation is achieved.

Section 3 deals with anyone having engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the USA cannot hold public or military office without expressed approval of Congress.

Section 4 deals with defining legal and illegal debt incurred during the suppression of insurrection or rebellion. It says, "any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

Section 5 directs Congress to enforce the amendment.

This amendment addresses only those "born or naturalized in the United States". Nothing else.

What has happened though, is that this amendment has been "interpreted" by many supreme courts to include corporations. One will not find any word in the amendment about corporations or the word corporations itself.

Starting with the activist court ruling on United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the whole intent of this amendment has devolved into justifying "corporate personhood" and this should scare us more than the wedge issue of illegal aliens created by those in the legislature bought by the corporations.

Go to www.reclaimdemocracy.org and read Doug Hammerstroms' "The Hijacking of the Fourteenth Amendment".

We should worry about what truly is evil;\, not diversions.

Any time some politician suggests amending the Constitution, I take it as a ploy for media attention and/or a distraction from the real issues. The amendment process is intentionally difficult so that only pressing Constitutional issues are addressed. The Republican talk about repealing the 14th Amendment is a way to focus their base, pander to the anti-immigrant voters yet keep the employers of illegals happy since it fails to address the substantive issues of immigration. In other words--they can talk about the problem, raise money and votes and yet do nothing about it.

IR,

Great post. I agree with you 100% and that has been my opinion pretty much from the get go. I just hope that whatever they do comes from intelligent dialogue with the best interest of all America and just not another republican political trick to gain more power. There is a slippery slope here and if not careful we may make the problem far worse.

Time will tell and we need to watch this as it developes and get involved as appropriate.

Great Posts IR and Steven,

Somehow though, I think that along with the whole immigration thing, the Repubs are using this as as a cover for an attack on the entire portion that keeps the States from making laws that override the Federal laws and the Constitution as well as the Due Process part of the 14th Amendment, you know, the one that protects us from police brutality and the like, the whole upholding of our Citizen Rights....Just a thought!

B.Honest,

That is exactly what they are up to. Good rule of thumb is that anything they do has the ultimate goal of increasing their control of the wealth and power in this nation.

The repugs will not do or pass any legislation that targets / helps Middle Americans. Period.

Sorry to say that is where we are at today. For these guys it is about power and money pure and simple.

I'm really wondering what the big deal is..?! We have laws and rules for aliens to become citizens. Why don't we enforce those?

We hear every day how good laws passed years ago to solve a legitimate problem are now used unscrupulously as 'loopholes' to get away with bad ethics or even circumnavigate other just laws. We deplore that type of activity and shake our fists at the perpetrators. Yet, here we are with a group of people who are using a just law for it's day as a loop hole today to circumnavigate a just system of citizenry.

What is the big f'n beef? If they are in the country illegally then ship them out. Anyone walking across the borders of this country does not automatically get citizenship. It's just that simple! Why is that so difficult?! It's not fanatical. It's not xenophobia. It's common sense!

Are illegal aliens being mistreated? Why are they in the country to begin with? Did the US citizens drive over the border and bring 10's of 1000's of illegals into the country? No. If the illegals weren't here to begin with then we would not be having this conversation!

Why are the illegals coming here? Because their own country is a f'n cesspool of drug lords, hit squads and corrupt government officials. The people need to rise up and the US should help them overcome these problems. We are oh so happy to send troops to the other side of the world and have their legs blown off for WMD's but helping the neighbor with their major problems that are bleeding over directly onto our soil is not worth sending in the troops??

I am at a complete loss here and have been for the entire ridiculous argument. We have laws against illegal aliens cruzing happily about our country and we have them for a reason. Lets follow the rules. Like any other criminal be they white collar, blue collar or illegal; if an old law is being used as a loophole to commit a crime and get away with it then that law needs to be changed or removed. It just doesn't get any simpler than that...

Good morning, IR.

I may be really late to this party, but the real purpose of the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" line was clarified for me last night. Apparently it was intended to preclude, e.g., the children of diplomats, who are are NOT subject to American jurisdiction, from becoming citizens merely by virtue of their birth. That understanding now makes the whole thing unambiguous, at least to me. Illegal aliens are not diplomats, and they ARE subject to US jurisdiction when they are on US soil; therefore, their children born here are natural born citizens under the 14th Amendment.

But despite the framers' actual intent, republicans would still be making this argument. B. Honest and Vet have it right.

"Why are the illegals coming here? Because their own country is a f'n cesspool of drug lords, hit squads and corrupt government officials. The people need to rise up and the US should help them overcome these problems."

Good point, M.Fisher, and it remains such in part because we seek to exploit their "affordable labor" instead of helping a neighbor enter the developed world. Imagine what a power house economy Canada, the US, and a working Mexico could make, adding other Central American nations as the economic health spreads.

Instead we took good, middle-class jobs from the United States and shipped them to the Maquiladora towns where it creates activity for people, but they still end up foraging for garbage to eat and living in shacks made of tin and discarded shipping crates. Then a lot of THOSE jobs left for the Far East where people would work even cheaper. It's exploitive and evil.

Imagine instead that the Corporations whose tax breaks help them move would pay those people enough to live a little better than the average Mexican citizen. They become consumers, people who feed the machine of commerce and create demand for everything else.

But no, instead the CEOs are busy stuffing their pockets thanks to 30 years of Republican Laissez Faire.

Been out all morning so I'm running late today. Thank all of you'll for taking the time to expand and clarify and present a some different perspective. I purely do appreciate it as always. Hope all are having a good day.

I thought illegals are not "under the jurisdiction of". That clause covers only legals entering the US legally, diplomats, students, visa workers, etc.

Flat-earther,

The illegals ARE subject to all of the laws of the States including the deportation laws, this means that they are Subject to the Jurisdiction by definition. Diplomats are not subject to the laws of the land, therefore are NOT under jurisdiction, students, visa workers etc. Are! They break the law and can be arrested for it. If they were NOT under the jurisdiction of the State laws then NOBODY would be able to arrest them for anything. You need to go and do some study before ya post your mistruths here, you WILL be called on them!!

Flat as my friend B has put up there even illegal aliens are subject to the laws of the state or local where they living and working. If they were some how considered diplomats( an officially bestowed and recognized position of their government) etc then they would be able to claim diplomatic immunity from having to follow our laws and so thier children would not be able to claim citizenship. If you need a better explanation of why you are wrong I would suggest that you go back and read Anna Mollys post with comprehension in mind. Her lawyering skills are much better than mine and I think she is very clear on the subject.

Illegals and immigration is the GOP bi-annual dance; they shout, they beat the drums, they go home and do nothing.

Lets start adding up some of the failures of the Obama administration. 9.5% unemployment, and Obama's Secretary of Treasury Geithner predicts that it will go higher. A strong majority of people of the country favor the Arizona illegal immigration law, and all it took was one liberal activist judge to overturn the will of the people in that state. Virginia says they don't like Obamacare and are challenging the laws that say people must purchase private health care insurance or be fined. The Obama administration sued to stop deep water drilling in the Gulf risking tens of thousands of oil jobs in the region, a judge throws out the suit, only to have the Obama administration file yet another suit. And now Missouri by a vote ratio of 3:1 have given the finger to Obama in their rejection of the provision that says it is mandatory for them to purchase health insurance. This on top of the Obama very jumpy and nervous inner circle firing Ag staffer Sherrod based on rumors and innuendo and not on any facts. Oh, and the latest Gallup poll has Obama edging into the Bush approval ratings area with a 41% approval for The Anointed One.

Failure after failure for Obama. At least he knows how spend taxpayers money. Lots, and lots of taxpayer money.

Question: Would it have been any different if we were discussing President McCain?

Would we be speaking of "Country First...and that country is China"?

Joe, if Sen. McCain had been elected President, we would be paying the same "change" to China. Sen. McCain had no proposals (and still has none) about how to stop digging us deeper into debt. No responsible Republican does. End the wars, continue taxation, pare down spending and we may eventually balance the budget...but it can't be done without more revenue coming in.

So Kate and Noid, what you're saying is McCain would have been the same as Obama. It's amazing your type makes that statement, because all during the campaign we were told by your Libs how wonderful Obama was and how he was going to solve all our problems, he would transcend race and party politics, and he would lead the world to prosperity. And at the same time you Libs types were telling us McCain sucked, Palin sucked, the Republicans sucked, and it would be awful if McCain got elected. Now you're telling us McCain would be doing the same things as Obama?

You Libs are deranged.

Oh and Joanna dont forget that the narcissist in charge gets his praises sung by our children in school now too....

But hey isnt this what the lefties wanted? To be ruled by the ruling class since us little children are too dumb to rule ourselves?

And that is what we have folks. Barry just wants us to not pay attention so he can turn this country into what he thinks it should be....and hey hes smarter than any of us right?

Citation required, Larry, and still waiting on Jefferson.

NDD - WHAT is UP with Larry and the fixation on the school kids being addressed by President Obama?

That is SO last year... lol

Ps: Larry - still waiting for where YOU think we should JAIL all the illegals?

Da Noid

I cant speak for those who are actual registered Republicans and tow the company line but I for one have called President Bush out for being a progressive light and would do the same for McCain if he was president.

See Im not against any political party what Im against is liberalism and progressivism. Im against Lindsay Grahamnesty, Olympia Snowe and the other RINO up there in Maine. Scott Brown isnt real high on my list either. Mccain isnt a true conservative either.

While the lefties are trying to make this all about political parties what they are failing to see is that folks like me, and folks in the Tea Party dont care about political parties.... we are for people who will say "Im for cutting the deficit, drastically reducing the size and scope of the federal government and am for state rights."

By reducing the size of government I mean cutting every office, department and program run by the government that is not needed..... examples: Social Security, Education Department, disability etc.

I want us back to a time when individuals are actually protected by the constitution and not getting their rights and freedoms taken away by the federal government.

By reducing the scope of government I mean getting rid of financial reform, Obama care and any other government program that tells me how I have to live my life (with the obvious exceptions of things like illegal drugs etc) if I want to sit around and eat McDonalds all day and gain 200 lbs that is MY choice and Ill be d@mned if Barack Hussein Obama MMMM MMMM MMMM or any other elected official is going to tell me other wise. If I choose to not recycle on piece of trash and leave all the eletrically powered pieces of equipment that I own on and running...thats my choice as well. If I want to drive the biggest most fuel consuming truck I can afford...again thats my choice. I dont want the government in the car business.... I dont and will never drive a lsuped up lawnmower.

Anyone (Dem or Rep) that comes out and says that they will limit gov't gets my vote. But they better hold true to their promises.

I will be against any candidate (again Dem or Rep -- coz there are progressives in both -- and those are the true enemy of this great country) that is for expanded government needs to be thrown out -- starting with the Progressive - In - Chief, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

We need to get back to a time when people were actually responsible for them selves and did not count on getting their Obama money.

Feisty send em to Gitmo for all I care..... or put them in work camps.... I dont care.... they have no rights any ways....they are law breakers and deserve nothing.

Larry, Minot, N.D.

Feisty send em to Gitmo for all I care..... or put them in work camps.... I dont care.... they have no rights any ways....they are law breakers and deserve nothing.

__________________

Now that's funny coming from the constitutionally challenged Larry! lol

Ahhh... but Larry you repeatedly stated we should LOCK them all up! I asked you where you suggest we lock 12-14 million illegals up and you come back with Gitmo... now that's funny I don't care who you are! ;0)))

Even though your answer confirms what I already suspected - I do thank you for at least answering... Now if you could answer NewDay about Jefferson...

Larry, I hope you are not involved in the agriculture industry, because a great deal of ND farmers depend on ag subsidies. Nor, I hope, are you part of the air force, because our defense will need to be cut as well. I assume you are a libertarian -- you don't want the government telling you what to do and when to do it. Then you should not be in favor of limiting who can get married, nor of government deciding issues about people's health (feeding tubes, for example). Some people feel that government stands up for the people against corporate interests (that's how the state bank of ND got its start), and others don't.

Hi, Feisty: no kidding! The school children thing is so petty it is unbelievable that anyone would bring it up. Do you think he will EVER read about Jefferson?

So in other words Larry, you wanna go back & Live you Life over again?

Evidently, your life has been MisManaged by YOU!

Good morning, dumb dumbs. Who's credit card was used for the last 10 years?? China's. Where were you big mouths when the last admin. was BS'ing their way into Iraq before even finishing the very expensive job in Afghanistan? Nowhere!

Funny how you big mouths love to complain about what "our children" will be paying back from this admin. when you were nodding your head and cheering on the admin. that took us from a surplus, started a second war for NO REASON, added 5 trillion to the debt and created a recession. How about a nice big cup of STFU.. You have lost all credibility!

Joe the liars at Fox didn't tell you that most of that debt was from you teabagger republicans. Your not worried about your children or grandchildren all you worried about is winning no matter how many lies you have to tell to win, you could care less about your children or anybody else.

If I want to drive the biggest most fuel consuming truck I can afford...again thats my choice.

Don't forget your proof of insurance and to wear your seat belt, Larry!!

Larry,

I was TAD at Gitmo back in 1983 for six months. It is only forty square miles with large expanse of water running through the middle of it. How would you propose we fit all of those people there? That dog won't hunt! Get real! Big business wants the illegals here for cheap labor and GOP is just blowing smoke.

Joanna - to some of your points:

1.) 9.2% unemployment under Obama. You are correct, but what you fail to mention is that 8.1% of that was inherited from the previous administration and was in FREE-FALL when Obama took office. You fail to mention that when Obama took office we were shedding roughly 700K jobs per month...that has leveled off and we are now adding jobs, albeit very slowly. See, it's like a big huge ship...it doesn't turn on a dime.

2.) Liberal Activist Judge??? Actually this judge made this rulling based on decades of precedent. The provisions of the AZ law which were "overturned" were those that precedent has established fall CONSTITUTIONALLY to the federal government. A judge making a decision based on "public opinion" as you see would actually be a fine example of activism....so, you actually have it backwards. Not to mention, and not that it's all that important, but this particular "liberal activist judge" has actually been praised by Republicans in AZ for years for her objectivity to the law.....not public opinion.

3.) HC Mandate - Yeah, pretty much everyone including liberals thought that was a horrible idea; Obama actually wanted a public option and he should have pushed the congress harder for that. His real failure here was to not see that bipartisanship was a pure waste of time, money, and energy.

4.) Deep Water Drilling Moritorium - Yeah, I always think it's a good idea when something goes disasterously wrong to just keep on keepin' on with whatever it is you are doing without taking a step back to analyze the problem in order to prevent future disasters......yup, that sounds like a brilliant idea.

5.) Sherrod - can't argue with the fact that the WH overreacted to this. My advice to the President....stop paying any attention to FOX News. The video was highly edited and story was fabricated from the very beginning by Breitbart, FOX News "journalist". He should be the one resigning or being terminated. Regardless if whether he purposefully did this or not, he is either an extremely unethical "journalist" or he just doesn't know how to do his job and you know....make sure his story is factually accurate.

6.) 41% approval rating - I would caution anyone to putting much stock into approval ratings. Take a look at Reagan and Clinton at this point in their presidency....yup, pretty darn close to these same numbers yet they both one second terms in a landslide. Conversely, look at Bush the Elder....64% approval rating in his last year and was a one term president.

7.) The Annointed One - the only people I've ever heard use this term or "Messiah" or any other derivative is Republicans.....I've never heard a Dem/Liberal/Progressive say these words nor believe this to be true.

Larry, Where do you live in Minot? I hear that the US has lots of nuclear waste looking for a home. I think that we could just buy the property next to you and place it there. No government control needed for that!! How about placing raw sewage into your water supply, not need for government regulations. Hey, I wanted to start a rendering plant, I could get the property on the other side of you and start it there. No regulations, no government rules, no in interference, it could happen to your home.

Do you think before you post?

Dear Larry in Minot,

Labor camps!!!????!!! You know that's what the Nazi's did to political prisoners, Jews and Gypsies. Labor camps and concentration camps.

You do understand that 100% of American prisons and jails are overcrowded NOW, without an influx of illegal aliens.

You got a big illegal alien problem up in the Dakotas do you? Lots Canadians stealin' across the border, taking your jobs, getting our public assistance, medical benefits? Oh wait, the Canadians have an EFFECTIVE health care system that includes EVERYONE and prescription drugs are a FRACTION of what they cost here. Geez, why would they want to cross the border illegally to get here?

Let's not forget the big negative that they might meet people like you.

Hey, are you getting your talking points from the NRC like NO and JO? Do they fax them to you or do they email them?

Well, no matter, it's probably troll biz anyway, probably top secret, hush-hush, need to know and all that like the GOP town hall meeting schedule.

No biggee, just wonderin'

Is your name really Larry?

PEACE

When Obama and the present Democratic Congress took office in 2009, they immediately increased the budget by nearly 25% over the Bush budget of 2008. That budget does not include the almost one trillion dollar Stimulus bills. For someone to say that the spending would have been anywhere near the same under McCain is absolute foolishness. This group has been spending like a teenage girl with an unlimited credit card. All the American people have said is that they are cutting by the credit card and the chaperone is going to change. The Democrats has proven themselves untrustworthy with the people's money. Just investigate all of the foolish programs under the Stimulus.

“Business Roundtable is an association of chief executive officers of leading U.S. companies with nearly $6 trillion in annual revenues and more than 12 million employees.

Yes, and they all meet in a secret bunker in Kansas every Thursday to discuss how to defeat The Mighty Obama.

Watch the paranoid Lefties have a seizure over this news.

Good morning to the "Two Jo's" . . . hope you both enjoy the President's birthday!

Have some popcorn?

Good morning to you too NF. Would like some strong tea with that popcorn of yours?

Aw, that sounds just perfect JoAnna, thank you kindly . . . I'll take mine over ice though . . . very steamy in the great state of Tennessee today!

[You didn't poison it did you? ;o)]

I wonder how much of that "$167 billion in dividends to shareholders" goes into union pension funds and ends up subsidizing their lefty liberal a$$es in their "golden years"??

Evil corporate BA$TARDS!!!

Nashville Fan,

Good morning. Boy the crap is flying early this morning. Its funny if anybody should be apologizing to my kids and grandchildren it is the Repugs. They just will not admit that they caused this whole mess, there are doing everything to promote the demise of this country for what, to put President Obama in his place?? What does that mean? They say the want to lower the deficit, help small business get credit, reduce taxes to small business, support middle Americans and they say NO to every bill that does exactly that.

These people just have no morals, no ethically responsibility, just hate, bigotry, and pure Greed for money and power. Just look at the posts today from the usual no brainers for proof.

Couldn't agree more U.S. Navy, couldn't agree more.

But you know what?

Just knowing that President Obama is living in the White House right now does my heart good . . . because that is the one thing that keeps these folks awake at night . . . that the majority of Americans saw through all their lies and voted for the best candidate.

That is why the attacks are so vicious . . . they still can't believe that they are not in charge.

Makes me very happy . . . and no lie that anyone can tell is gonna change that! :o)

Nash,

Agreed, me too. He is doing some remarkable things. Could you imagine what he could do if he got some help from across the aisle. They keep saying they to help (I guess No is the republican translation for help)

Have a great day.

An article from American Thinker by Geoffrey P. Hunt:

Anatomy of a Failing Presidency

Barack Obama is on track to have the most spectacularly failed
presidency since Woodrow Wilson. In the modern era, we've seen
several failed presidencies--led by Jimmy Carter and LBJ. Failed
presidents have one strong common trait-- they are repudiated, in the
vernacular, spat out. Of course, LBJ wisely took the exit ramp early,
avoiding a shove into oncoming traffic by his own party. Richard
Nixon indeed resigned in disgrace, yet his reputation as a statesman
has been partially restored by his triumphant overture to China .

But, Barack Obama is failing. Failing big. Failing fast. And failing
everywhere: foreign policy, domestic initiatives, and most
importantly, in forging connections with the American people. The
incomparable Dorothy Rabinowitz in the Wall Street Journal put her
finger on it: He is failing because he has no understanding of the
American people, and may indeed loathe them. Fred Barnes of the Weekly Standard says he is failing because he has lost control of his
message, and is overexposed. Clarice Feldman of American Thinker
produced a dispositive commentary showing that Obama is failing
because fundamentally he is neither smart nor articulate; his
intellectual dishonesty is conspicuous by its audacity and lack of
shame.

But, there is something more seriously wrong: How could a new
president riding in on a wave of unprecedented promise and goodwill
have forfeited his tenure and become a lame duck in six months? His
poll ratings are in free fall. In generic balloting, the Republicans
have now seized a five point advantage. This truly is unbelievable.

What's going on?

No narrative. Obama doesn't have a narrative. No, not a narrative
about himself. He has a self-narrative, much of it fabricated,
cleverly disguised or written by someone else. But this
self-narrative is isolated and doesn't connect with us. He doesn't
have an American narrative that draws upon the rest of us. All
successful presidents have a narrative about the American character
that intersects with their own where they display a command of history
and reveal an authenticity at the core of their personality that
resonates in a positive endearing way with the majority of Americans.
We admire those presidents whose narratives not only touch our own,
but who seem stronger, wiser, and smarter than we are. Presidents we
admire are aspirational peers, even those whose politics don't align
exactly with our own: Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Harry Truman, Ike, and
Ronald Reagan.

But not this president. It's not so much that he's a phony, knows
nothing about economics, and is historically illiterate and woefully
small minded for the size of the task--all contributory of course.
It's that he's not one of us. And whatever he is, his profile is
fuzzy and devoid of content, like a cardboard cutout made from
delaminated corrugated paper. Moreover, he doesn't command our
respect and is unable to appeal to our own common sense. His notions
of right and wrong are repugnant and how things work just don't add
up. They are not existential. His descriptions of the world we live in
don't make sense and don't correspond with our experience.

In the meantime, while we've been struggling to take a measurement of
this man, he's dissed just about every one of us -- financiers, energy
producers, banks, insurance executives, police officers, doctors,
nurses, hospital administrators, post office workers, and anybody else
who has a non-green job.

Expect Obama to lament at his last press conference in 2012: "For
those of you I offended, I apologize. For those of you who were not
offended, you just didn't give me enough time; if only I'd had a
second term, I could have offended you too."

Mercifully, the Founders at the Constitutional Convention in 1787
devised a useful remedy for such a desperate state--staggered terms
for both houses of the legislature and the executive. An equally
abominable Congress can get voted out next year. With a new Congress, there's always hope of legislative gridlock until we vote
for president again two short years after that.

Yes, small presidents do fail, Barack Obama among them.
The coyotes howl but the wagon train keeps rolling along.

WAHAHAHAHAA!! Umm...What are we laughing at..? Oh yea. Your ridiculous comment..

I do hope I’m there the day his “rage” causes him to stroke-out on live TV. LOL!!

Dude...I'm no fan of Ed's. He seems like a personable enough fellow though. But, if you want to see someone about to have a frickin aneurysm then stop being prostrate before your TV when Beck in on...That guys eyes bulge out and he literally has froth shooting from his mouth! Not to mention that he is a total liar and admits that he is all about entertainment first.

50 plus page report the Barry admin requested from the Business Roundtable titled “POLICY BURDENS INHIBITING ECONOMIC GROWTH”

The fact that president Obama asked for such a report shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that he wants ALL of the opinions, even those that will certainly be biased towards profits...Profits at the expense of the average person. Only dyed in the wool right wing extremists would see the president's bold request for information in this area as some kind of problem.

If he had never asked for information from them you would be squawking like a chicken over that and claiming that it too was a problem. Step away from the hypocrisy, how 'bout it...

Capitalism is only "evil" when it destroys people and the environment in the name of profitability. Regulation is considered "evil" by right wing freaks like yourself. Regulations, if followed, would have prevented the BP oil spill but the Bush admin. cut regulation of the oil industry. Now we are finally getting a rogue well under control after 107ish days of spewing and the destruction of lives, jobs and culture.

I'm hoping that somehow the oil has vanished without a trace as BP, the fed and local gov'ts are trying to convince me is the case but I'm not that stupid...I, like so many others, are waiting for several weeks of testing to come in from independent labs.

Should anyone be surprised that the Business Roundtable wants to continue the whole deregulatory, no accountability regime that led to the biggest economic collapse in over 75 years? Of course not, that's the only song in their book. What's the "uncertainty"? That isn't hard to figure out either. They're uncertain if the Repbulicans will be back in power next year and they can go back for doing only what's in their own best interest, with no concern for how that negatively effects other people or society as a whole.

Hey, is that the fax from the NRC with the talking points? Cool.

Hey guys couldn't we get the DNC to fax us something like that so we could all march in step like the trolls?

Naaaaah, we never be able to keep in step. Too many independent thinkers on our side.

Just Imagine. All these jeepers marching together...little feet rising and falling in unison...just like those films from Germany in the 30's.

JACK BOOTS...we'd have to get jack boots!

Hey, MO, NO, JO, did they send you some jack boots too?

"Naaaaah, we never be able to keep in step."

Actually, Will Rogers nailed the issue when he said "I do not belong an organized political party, I'm a Democrat".

All Ed Schultz confirms is that the Democrats/Progressives do not know the first thing about the business and especially small business. Take Robert Gibbs point that the tax cuts only affect 2% of all small business returns. Of course, Robert, you need to get a clue about small business. Almost all small business profits are reported on sub chapter S tax returns of small business owners' personal returns. If you allow taxes to increase on the upper level of tax payers, you will be taking more money from successful small business owners. Since more than 2/3 of small business people roll more than half of these profits(percentages from Wall Street Journal) back into their businesses, if you take more money in taxes is taken they cannot roll this capital back into their businesses for growth and new employees. Mr. Schultz has probably never talked to more than a couple small businessmen at those NYC,LA, or Chicago cocktail parties. These people need to get out of the east and west coast and talk to small business people in the heartland.

You can argue about capitalism. But under capitalism, the Conservative believe in equal opportunity which is rightfully so. But Democrats are asking us to guarantee to right to equal results. Equal results is not capitalism. But it is a basic tenate of Socialism. Am I saying all Democrats and Progressives are Socialists. NO!! But they have adopted some Socialist tenates and are trying to co-opt them into their view of Capitalism. The problem is that the two do not mesh very well at all.

Ray, it would be far better if you did not quote Rush Windbag to try and make your point. There is not a Democrat, in office or reading this blog that believes you can guarantee an equal result. What we believe is that opportunity must be afforded everyone, not just the top 2% of earners in the country. And trying to make that point about Socialism is so absurd that it defies credulity. Do look up the word "socialism" so you find out what it means.

Ray,

If by equal opportunity you mean the odds stacked their favor. Do you actually research your beliefs or do you just borrow from the trendy repub. talking points?

Socialist, there's that scary word. Do you actually know what the word means?

No Ray, I'm not asking for equal results. That's a right wing talking point that plays blatantly to people's pride in accomplishment. I'm as proud of what I've accomplished as anyone. I just recognize that the deck is stacked against some people. To a greater and greater extent "some people" turns out to be anyone who isn't already wealthy. A look at the truth of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps http://www.columbia.edu/~tad61/riches112805.pdf reveals that we're hopelessly blinded to the reality. If you REALLY want to be rewarded for your efforts instead of your starting position you'd be better off living in a number of other countries http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-climbin_n_501788.html .

tap tap tap, scuse me anyone notice that Rick Snyder (nerd guy) and Ummmm coff coff Republican won with the support of over 100,000 DEMOCRATS and independants. DoH!!!

PuCkiE,

Atleast they didn't vote that Tea Bag courting Cox! He got smoked!

"Lord, what fools these mortals be."

That's Puck from Midsummer Nights Dream.

Hey Puckie, did it ever occur to you that the dems may have "selected" those guys for the coming slaughter in November? That maybe, just maybe, they thought the baggers were on a roll and they wanted to cut some of the weak out of the herd for some light dining later?

Hey, did you get your fax or email from the NRC this morning? Did they send you some jack boots as well?

I'm conducting a poll.

The only thing that Progressive have taken out of the recent votes is that the Tea Party candidate got beaten. There is one person less popular than the Tea Party candidate. It is the Democratic candidate. The Democrats can't even get their incumbent Congress people through their own primaries. See you later Rep. Kilpatrick (MI)

Eric,

Very good point on the security issue. I had a FBI Secret Clearance while in the Navy. When I went to Adak, Alaska (big Navy Comm Center for West Pac) it was moved up to Top Secret as I was working on Krypto gear. Back then that just gave me access to do MY JOB in a top security environment. Anything beyond that required a "need to know" clearance as well. I could not stand in the Radio Shack and watch messages come across even though I was repairing that piece of gear.

I think the lax security procedures in place now have lead to the problem. I am just surprised that will almost 1 Million people with this level of access this problem has not been more prevalent, or is it and we just do not know??

Good posts today Eric.

Eric,

I agree with everything except the giving Manning a medal.

I agree with the need to know aspect; I was in the Marine Corps and had clearance for some things, but it was limited to what I needed to know. That said, I also feel that this private is guilty of treason...this is a huge breech.

He released classified documents during the time of war which could potentially injure and cause death to fellow soldiers and our allies. If that isn't treason, what is! The definition does not depend on whether you agree with what he did or his reasons.

Nash... great minds think alike...

Hot buttered popcorn...coming right up! lol

Ps: I still remember what a great day it was around here when President Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize! As hard as the trolls tried they couldn't ruin the good mood! ;0)

Feisty,

I don't think I have ever had more fun than that day . . . I mean these folks were so consumed by irrational anger they could hardly type . . . how dare the President have the audacity to be . . . they didn't know how to complete that, but somehow, it was the President's fault! Hmmmmph! lol

The popcorn that day . . . never had any that was fluffier! :o)

Nash, I like that "not going to let the devil take my joy." I'll remember it.

Could we have beverages to go with the popcorn to celebrate the President's birthday? What struck me is that he is turning 49 today--quite a lot of accomplishments from someone not yet 50!

What flavor Kool-Aid do you prefer Steeler Fan? lol

In honor of the President Birthday we can always spike it with some vodka!

I can't believe he's only a couple of months older than I am.... 1961 was a VERY good year!

Yeah, that saying kind of stuck with me too newday . . . another one of my favorites from my mom is"

"Don't figure out how you can't do it, figure out how you can."

P.S. I am just a little thirsty . . . I've had some tea from JoAnna but it wasn't quite sweet enough (shocking I know!) . . . red koolaid please!

Nash, going to pass the second one on to my oldest! Perfect mantra for him, thanks.

Happy Birthday Mr. President. Hope your new Big Wheel Gibbs gave you is the right color!

PS. Hope MessNBC throughs you a party. But from looking at the ratings, very few will ever know!!

Hey Chuckey Doll, don't confuse a disgruntled employee who was up for a disciplinary meeting with racism. The shooting at the CT beer company was about a bad employee Going Postal because he was being disciplined. Oh why don't you save us the bother of hunting down that phantom data you ask us to search for and give us some prime examples of what you're talking about and how we can see it for ourselves? Oh that's right you just made that all up about us Liberals didn't you tea bagging prancing pansy?

CU Farley

I wonder if the MSM will do any stories exploring yesterday's racially motivated murders in CT

No, but they'll parade every anti-gun nut in the world in front of their cameras calling for the repeal of the 2nd amendment.

Shouldn't you be howling about the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission's vote to not protect the building that will now be demolished so the Cordoba Initiative can proceed with its planned community center that will include a mosque?

Joanna, Im going out on a limb and guessing he did not have a CWL. Albiet a tiny limb.

JoAnnaSmith:

No, but they'll parade every anti-gun nut in the world in front of their cameras calling for the repeal of the 2nd amendment.

Tsk, tsk. You're making stuff up again, JoAnna. Second time I've caught you doin that today. I've never heard anyone demand the repeal of the 2nd Amendment. I have heard a bunch of idiots and hate mongers demanding the repeal of part of the 14th Amendment, though.

CU Farley

I wonder if the MSM will do any stories exploring yesterday's racially motivated murders in CT and whether or not they were inspired by the lefties throwing the word "racist" around whenever someone disagrees with the president or any other black democrat? Think that's a stretch? Check back and look at some of the things the libs/media said over the last year regarding Holacaust Museum shooting etc...

Farley don't even try and go there. the guy yesterday was a coward and to me used racism as a reason to kill his fellow workers. I don't care if he was called a Ni**er, or noose was found, that does not justify killing people.

Only you would post something like this, saying this was inspired by the left. if you left or right, killing is wrong.

I will say this to you farley, have you ever worked at a company where you were the only white person.

For the last 25 years the companies i have worked, i was the only black in the office. i was subject to being called a Ni**er, one time while in a safety meeting (i'm a construction estimator) the head superintendent told every body in the meeting, not to worry about getting a projection screen, that i would bring the white sheets. oha everybody thought that was so funny until i went to the president of the company and quit. i told him what happened, he was appalled and told me i could not quit. i told him while i respect him, enough was enough and i left. the next day while i was cleaning out my office he pleaded with me to come back and he offered me a large raise to stay, i told him i would come back but he could keep his money. 3 months later i found another job, and quit. you loose respect for you self by allowing this kind of harassment to continue.

i can give you many other instances, but i will say this, the company said yesterday that he never files any kind of grevances against the people whio were harrasing him. that part i don't believe. companies push these kinds of things under the rug all the time.

they had him on tape stealing, my question to this guy, if your being harrased why steal from the company. he knew they were going to fire him and used racism as a excuse to kill.

the federal laws against work place harassment are there to pervent this kind of horrable act. this guy if he was harassed should have followed the law, not take the law into his own hands. he should have quit, that would have worked better than killing people.

Why Da Noid, is there some legitimate issue with preventing lawful use of property by a religious organization? Particularly if that organization is dedicated to making sure that their religion isn't hijacked by hate and determined to work toward peace between all religions and peoples http://www.cordobainitiative.org/ ? Is there anything to be gained by making sure that the only Muslims are those who operate in a shadow world, filled with violent intent and dangerous to all? If our nation truly believes in freedom of religion, isn't it essential to protect the free worship of all peaceful religious groups?

I'd like to remind you that only 50 years ago many people seriously questioned the wisdom of electing a member of the world's most popular Christian denomination to the Presidency. Once we start picking and choosing among religions there's nothing to say yours might not be next.

Hopefully one of the Righties will show up pretty soon to clarify that.

John, it isn't about whether it is legal because it is. It is more about sensitivity, tact, and throwing salt in the 9/11 wound. They could build this mosque 10 blocks away instead of one. The majority of 9/11 families have said this is insensitive and hurtful. If you are about uniting, why would you do something so hurtful. The name Cordova is a Muslim mosque/shrine in Spain commemorating the Muslim conquests and victories in Spain. This is like setting up a Christian shrine in Baghdad for the Gulf War. Legal maybe but in very bad taste and definitely not uniting.

Are you even aware that there were Muslims among the other innocent victims of 9/11, just as there were Christians, Jews, athiests, and people of nearly every other religious description? I also question your contention regarding the "majority of 9/11 families". Over 3,000 people were killed in the 9/11 attacks. Have every one of those family members been contacted and offered their opinion? Two blocks is too close? How close is far enough away? You say 10 blocks, I'm willing to bet that's too close for some people. US soil is too close for some. Are you aware that there's a Buddhist shrine outside Pearl Harbor? And yet it isn't a big deal, because people don't MAKE it a big deal. Funny how the "reasonable thing" to do is always what Conservatives want. Once again the reaction of some people only backs up the radical Islamic recruiting point that Muslims are hated and subject to a new Crusade if they don't go on the offensive.

If your not here legally you need to go home, where ever that may be. Lets see history, ellis island. Thats the way my grand parents did it. Oh yea and learn to speak english, when I lived in other countries I learned to communicate in the local language.

The FBI statistics were taken in 2008 before the economic downturn. The Dems won't tell you that the 2008 crime statistics were an all time high. So even though there is a small reduction, they are still near all time highs. Two other statistics not reported though are, 1) the number of violent crimes per the estimated number of illegals entering is at an all time high. 2)though crime is dropping, the crime rate is not dropping in proportion to the drop in illegals. 3)the amount of illegal drugs is not seeing any major drop. Bottom line is that the amount of violent crime and kidnappings are near an all time high in Arizona.

Actually Ray, the economy was already falling apart in 2007 and the 2008 crime rate was lower http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/24/national/main6514022.shtml . The rate fell 3 years in a row, as a matter of fact.

That also holds true in AZ, where the 2008 violent crime rate was the lowest since 1971 http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11842 .

You're just wrong.

I wish the president a happy birthday, too. (Although we can't really be sure it's his birthday because all he's got to prove it is that birth certificate from Hawaii and a couple of birth announcements from the 1960's).

Seems like if there was doubt Hillary would have proven it fake and possibly won the election.

JimZ:

Seems like if there was doubt Hillary would have proven it fake and possibly won the election.

I hope you realize that I was joking abou the birth certificate, although I guess I couldn't blame you if you didn't. Some of the stuff the far-out rightwindings write on this message board is much funnier, although it's not intended to be funny.

Houston:

What would you like, a hand engraved anouncement from God Almighty? Probably would not be enoough proof for you!

Like some panhandler on the street! lol! That hit the spot!

Let's see...Missouri asks voters to consider "Prop C" in a Primary Election and not during the General Election. Here are some numbers to ponder:

Missouri's population = 6 million (estimate)

Missouri's population of "eligible voters" = 4.5 million (estimate based on 25% of nation under age 18)

Total votes cast on "Prop C" = 853,502

Total votes in favor of "Prop C" = 620,384

By my math, that means that only 14% of eligible voters voted in favor of "Prop C". Wow, what a landslide!

Now, I understand that the old adage is true...government is run by those who show up and the bottom line remains that "Prop C" passed but there's a big difference between a Primary Election in August and a General Election in November. If you consider the same proposition in November do you get the same numbers?

How many voters didn't care enough about the Primary Election to show up and vote on "Prop C"?

How many voters would have gone to vote if they weren't camping in the Ozarks or watching their son's Little League game?

Something to think about.

Yay! lets celebrate uneducated decisions based on fear and fueled by ignorance. Let's take a poll of that 70% and see if these people actually know what is in the HCR bill. I'd be willing to bet 90% have no idea.

I guess that's a point for YOUR team though. Congrats, you get a point and many Missourians will die unnecessarily as a result.

BTW Da Noid, 90% of the voters yesterday here in Missouri were teabagging republicans, 10% Democrats. The teabagger republicans went to the polls so they could say see we told you so. But it gives the teabagger republicans something to brag about, you know they have so little to brag about anyway.

The funniest part of the lefty liberals response to this vote to "shove" their beloved ClunkerCare HCR is that they would be SHOUTING TO THE HEAVENS IN PRAISE OF THE WISE VOTERS if the vote went their way.

The actual truth sucks for you, and so does ClunkerCare. Deal with it.

This is ultimately an exercise in futility....this will all be decided by the courts. If precedent holds true, which it usually does, the courts will rull that state law cannot usurp federal....so everyone keep your panties on.

California Tom

_______________

Understand and thanks Tom! Good to see you out & about here! ;0)

one step at a time, Republican Rick Snyder took the election for Michigan Gov. by getting 100,000 Democratic/Independent votes. In a huge dem/union state that shows people dont want this big gov/spendathon we are in. Locally across the nation people are going to NOT accept the things Obama/Reid/Pelosi tag team have put into play. If we put enough roadblocks in the way and take away the funding this poo poo crapola will go away.

Puckie,

He did not 'win the election' he only won the PRIMARY, the REAL election will happen in November!

You know Eric, normally I would have a lively discussion with you. But after reading your posts today. I think Im going to pretend your not really here. Coming from a 10 year military Vet of 3 conflicts with a love for this country. I work, I served and now I want to keep my hard earned income.

Hey PuCkiE - yet you couldn't keep your ignorant mouth shut and pretend I'm not here before posting you selfish little rant. You aren't interested in a lively discussion. Yeah despite serving all you've turned into is another selfish sunshine Tory Traitor who has no interest in sharing. I served too and I haven't forgotten my love for my country and all it's people the way you have.

Ummmmm an appropriate name Idiot. Do you have any small business associates? I do and they have demand and Idiot they ARE NOT HIRING. They wont until they know what thier liability is going to be for the Crapola Obama/Reid/Pelosi Charge of the spend brigade attack. Psssst here what there doing, come real close so I can tell you! THEY ARE MAKING THEIR EMPLOYEES WORK MORE AND LONGER!!!!!

PuCkieE

THEY ARE MAKING THEIR EMPLOYEES WORK MORE AND LONGER!!!!!

Business owners who do that are disgusting human beings preying on their employees. These creeps know that it's difficult to get a job elsewhere, so they can treat their employees nearly like slaves. And of course, not adding jobs helps keep the economy depressed, which is clearly the intent of the Republicans and some businesses so they can blame the Democrats.

youranidiot - When the profits that you are making get eaten up by taxes - how do you hire more people. If you make more money but pay higher taxes....... Just nibble your free cheese and try not to worry.

BIGTEXAS,

You're an idiot. Hiring new employees doesn't come out of your profits and as a matter of fact if you (as an employer) add jobs here in the good ole' USA, you actually get a tax deduction. Any argument to the contrary is purely partisan rhetoric.

Thank you Dan! Businesses were hiring in the Fifties when taxes were through the roof! Businesses hire when demand out paces their output period.

Wakeup, good point. And business was good when people were paid what they were worth. My Republican Dad has said for years "What's going to happen when no one is paid well enough to buy anything?" Seems like we found out in 2007.

John B.,

Your Dad was right. I grew up in GOP dominated suburb and many of my friends are dyed in the wool Republicans. They used to poke fun at me for being a Liberal but like I said it was all in good fun. You know it used to be a source of pride for my Granddad, a die hard Republican, that he paid his workers well and that they were loyal to his company. What has happen to that GOP? Where did the GOP's Progressives and Liberals go?

Morning Bev!

Enough with the rain already! If this keeps up I'll have to take a kayak to the office! lol

As for 'Dick' Armey bus... tomatoes would have done the trick... ;0)

What the hell was he doing in Chicago anyway besides stinking the place up? Not like it's a Republican stronghold...

Your guess is as goood as mind, Fiesty. Whatever the reason it is; it's no good. Maybe, Dick Armey wants to crash the President's birthday celebrations?

Erics not here Erics not here ....OooOOooooom oOooOOooooOm

eric

So you want to populate the country with third world people who don't have the mentality to run their own country?? Do you realize that every country below our border is third world eric?? The vast majority of working America is sick of illegals and the drain they put on the economy, health care systems and the lowering of education standards. You have this 'black' chip on your shoulder and you need to get over it little man.

LMFAO Tex good one.

Wow PuCkiE,

You are REALLY childish, around 2nd grade level I suspect. Eric has really gotten under your skin and you have NO way to refute what he says so you pull out the kiddie stuff, LOL. Typical Repub Bagger!

Remember, it is a matter of Those Too Rich To Fail that are trying their best to distract America, with their racist rants, away from their failure to help America out of the hole it is in presently and the Repubs voting NO NO NO against everything that could be helping get us Out of said hole. They could hire EVERYBODY that is without a job presently at real living wages and would only profit from it, they have the money to do it now and it would really help reduce their tax load. But NO, they Refuse to hire because they are working hand in hand with the Repubs for political gain: They WANT to keep businesses unregulated (so people can die in their industries: safety and pollution control is Sooo Expensive), they WANT to keep their massive and unneeded tax breaks (which is why our National debt is so high), they WANT their Corporate Welfare and to hell with the rest of America, they have theirs, why should they care.

A GREAT HAPPY BIRTHDAY for our AWESOME PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!

BIGTEXAS

Do you realize that every country below our border is third world eric??

He probably doesn't realize it because it's not true. Countries like Argentina, Chile, and increasinlgy, Brazil are not"Third World."

Speaking of "mentalities", with voters with BIGTEXAS' mentality, the United States could end up as a Third World country: a small ruling elite and everyone else living in shacks made out of discarded packing crates.

Did you forget Big Texas, form 2001 till 2007 we were run like a third world country and you saw where that got us. Remember the third world mentality of the teabagging republicans.

I like Big Texas. He wears his bigotry with pride.

Michigan is like a third world country now equal to california, illinois & D.C. - free cheese folks.

BIGTEXAS

Man your from texas, the state that waited 10 years to inform slaves they were free, the state that gave us, Lyndon Johnson(got us in to vietman) George Bush(the fool who iunvaded iraq based upon lies) if i were you the last thing i would be doing is calling Michigan a 3 world counrty. In texas is a state that has nothen but brokeback cowboys!!!! hey BIG TEXAS when are you and your man going out on the range!!!!

Jeff,

You forgot that all around nice guy Tom Delay!

Just One Hospital

Unbelievable!

Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas , Texas is a fairly famous institution and for a variety of reasons:

1. John F. Kennedy died there in 1963

2. Lee Harvey Oswald died there shortly after

3. Jack Ruby-who killed Oswald, died there a few years later.

On the flip side, Parkland is also home to the second busiest maternity ward in the country with almost 16,000 new babies arriving each year. (That's almost 44 per day---every day)!

A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants. That's 11,200 anchor babies born every year just in Dallas!!!

According to the article, the hospital spent $70.7 million delivering 15,938 babies in 2004 but managed to end up with almost $8 million dollars in surplus funding. Medicaid kicked in $34.5 million, Dallas County taxpayers kicked in $31.3 million and the feds tossed in another $9.5 million.

The average patient in Parkland in maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child. She is also an illegal immigrant. By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on their immigration status or ability to pay.

OK, fine. That doesn't mean they should receive better care than everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at Parkland Hospital , they do. " Parkland Memorial Hospital has nine prenatal clinics. NINE!!!

The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with her third child---her previous two were also born at Parkland. Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican native was grateful because it would have cost$200 to have them in Mexico. This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10 per visit and $100 for the delivery but she was unsure if she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the hospital won't turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother asking at this point.)

"How long has this been going on? What are the long-term effects?

Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in 1986 shortly after her mother entered the US illegally - now she is having her own child there as well. (That's right; she's technically a US citizen.)

These women receive free prenatal care including medication, nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and formula.

Most of these things are available to American citizens as well, but only for low-income applicants, and even then, the red tape involved is almost insurmountable.

Because these women are illegal immigrants, they do not have to provide any sort of legitimate identification - no proof of income. An American citizen would have to provide a social security number which would reveal their annual income - an illegal immigrant need only claim to be poor and the hospital must take them at their word.

Parkland Hospital offers indigent care to Dallas County residents who earn less than $40,000 per year. (They also have to prove that they did not refuse health coverage at their current job.. Yeah, the 'free' care is not so easy for Americans.)

There are about 140 patients who received roughly $4 million dollars for un-reimbursed medical care. As it turns out, they did not qualify for free treatment because they resided outside of Dallas County so the hospital is going to sue them! Illegal's get it all free! But U. S citizens who live outside of Dallas County get sued! How stupid is this?

As if that isn't annoying enough, the illegal immigrant patients are actually complaining about hospital staff not speaking Spanish. In this AP story, the author speaks with a woman who is upset that she had to translate comments from the hospital staff into Spanish for her husband. The doctor was trying to explain the situation to the family and the mother was forced to translate for her husband who only spoke Spanish.
This was apparently a great injustice to her.

In an attempt to create a Spanish-speaking staff, Parkland Hospital is now providing incentives in the form of extra pay for applicants who speak Spanish.. Additionally, medical students at the University of Texas Southwestern for which Parkland Hospital is the training facility will now have a Spanish language requirement added to their already jammed-packed curriculum. No other school in the country boasts such a ridiculous multi-semester (multicultural) requirement.

(Sorry for the length, but this needs wide circulation particularly to our "employees" in Congress.)

Remember that this is about only ONE hospital in Dallas, Texas. There are many more hospitals across our country that must also deal with this.

PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY U.S. CITIZEN YOU KNOW.

If you want to verify the accuracy of this information:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

I'll sign the petition to put away empoyers that hire illegal immigrants. Can you send me the link.

Momminj.......you are a joke. Just because one tiny little conservative state puts phony over-hyped initiative on there silly little primary ballot means absolutely nothing. Put down your catfish pole and go get an education. It will serve you well.

Mom Im with you, I live in Deeeeeeetroit and we are in the boat Texas just so eloquently explained (that word was for Eric). Detroit recieving hosp is completely unindated with people 24/7 with people who use it as a doctors office. Because they cant turn them down for medical care.

PuCkie sounds like you just made a plug for health care reform, good job glad your on board.

And moninj your not all Americans, so give your opinions but don't include all of America in your rants.