Gee, Ron, it could not possible be because the Reagan amnesty was a failure, could it? I mean, just because it did not work, does not mean it should not be tried again,does it?

Liberals never look back, which is why we spend so much money on programs that DO NOT work. There is a simple solution to those who are already here: give them some kind of worker card, some color other than green, but which precludes them from becoming citizens unless they return to their home countries and get in line with everyone else.

Please remember that most Mexicans,at least, come here not just to work, but to take advantage of free education for their children-something that does not exist in Mexico. It is hard to argue with people who want a better life for their children than they would otherwise have. A realistic solution is the best one-and I believe that mine addresses the issues both realistically and compassionately.

In case everyone missedit on the earlier thread:

Happy Birthday to me

Princess does not need surgery!

More testing of course, but

She's a miracle baby!!!

No Jo my Best wishes to both you and the Pretty Princess. That is very good news indeed. Best wishes from the Hill folk for continueing good news and good health.

Great news no joe . . . thanks for sharing it with us! ;o)

Heard from friends of mine who lives in AZ over the weekend. Many armed protesters from all over the country are showing up to support the AZ bill which in turn brings in protesters who are against it. They commented that the AZ law was clearly political since their republican federal legislators did nothing to solve the problem previously but Brewer and state legislators also did not count on the expense and havoc their law has caused Arizonans.

No Jo: Happy Birthday and I'm pleased your miracle baby is doing well.

Jody,

Armed protesters at such an emotional event. This can only end up with an increased sale in body bags. Not good, not good at all. Just a matter of time before some hot head decides to use the Angel second amendment solution.

I had a feeling NoJo!

Thanks for sharing the wonderful news!

Have a VERY Happy Birthday!

Reagan's plan would have worked had he insisted on amnesty as part of comprehensive reform of every aspect of immigration to include temporary worker permits, returning home and getting in line. What Bush proposed and was incorporated by the Kennedy/McCain legislation was comprehensive and would have been a start. Republicans voted it down, Senator Obama and most other dems voted YES.

Happy Birthday No Joe and it is good news regarding the princess.

Ron:

Unfortunately one can bring up the past record of opposing party Presidents as Reagan and G W Bush, etc. and it does not matter. Especially to those who fall on the supporting side of the same. When pointing out comparisons (to those on the right) those records of past Republican Presidents with a current Dem President those on the right don't want to hear it. When pointing out comparisons (to those on the left) those records pf past Dem Presidents with a current Republican Presdient those on the left don't want to hear it.

Those opposing some form of Immigration Reform are having difficulty accepting the fact that the face of the Nation is not what it was 30 years ago. It is much more diversified and has evolved over the last 30 years to include many more races, cultures and religions in scope and in numbers that many are having a hard time adjusting too. Wheneve a Nation evloves as the United States has in recent years there will always be a number of people who will fight the change seeing the same as a threat to the status quo (the way things were). But that is life. "The way things were" always become victim to change. It is inevitable. Fighting changes rather than meeting them head on and adjusting to them only makes the transfomations more diffcult and longer to take hold. But change will take hold.

No Joe -

Sorry to correct you, but free education does exist in Mexico, all of Central America and most of South America. It may not be as good as ours, but it is free. I know, I've lived in these Countries.

NoJo:

There is a simple solution to those who are already here: give them some kind of worker card, some color other than green, but which precludes them from becoming citizens unless they return to their home countries and get in line with everyone else.

I think most people here would agree with that. That's the sort of sensible and fair solution that John McCain and Lindsey Graham were for in the pre Tea Party days. Unfortunately, to appease their base the Republicans have moved the goal posts. Now they say there can be no immigration reform until "the borders are secured." Since the borders will NEVER be secured to the point that absolutely no illegals get across it, that means there will NEVER be any immigration reform if the Republicans have their way.

No Jo - I'll bite as you seem to have posted something fairly sensible about guest workers. I would go further though. I would hope you agree that those "other than green card holders" would be paid a decent living or minimum wage, be protected from dangerous conditions and be precluded from working long hours. This country doesn't need a return to indentured servitude. I think a fair temporary guest worker system could be a partial solution or a temporary solution while comprehensive immigration reform takes place.

Since you appear to acknowledge the there is a supply and demand need for this labor would you agree that legal immigration numbers/quotas should be raised for Mexicans/Central/South Americans ie Latinos? This will mean more legal immigration could take place. Everyone would be happy.

Finally, do you think it is ok that hiring companies that currently knowingly hire undocumented workers are not punished with fines and or imprisoned? It is really ironic to me when some people, say illegal is illegal, undocumented workers broke the law when they crossed the border. However, they fail to see that the profit driven hiring managers that hire them as cheap labor are also breaking the law.

By the way I wasn't aware your daughter was having troubles, but I'm glad to hear that she is better.

Ron,

Great post . . . I think fear is behind many of the antics we are seeing in America today. Fear is a normal human emotion, but irrational fear based on misinformation usually leads to bad outcomes.

P.S. Somehow I missed the part about the birthday No Joe . . . hope it is a happy one . . . that means not spending too much time here arguing politics! :o)

CA:

Enjoyed your comments. You are right that change will eventually take hold and win out. In the short run, conservatives may be able to beat back change...but in the long run the progressives will prevail.

Great News No Jo,

I am glad your daughter is doing well, Happy B-Day.

Actually, with all the complaints that I hear from the right about us libs pointing out that Bush II was a MASSIVE failure, while us Libs DO look back, the Repubs REFUSE to look back, just full steam ahead and d@mn everyone that dares to get in their way, no matter the damage.

Yes, Immigration reform needs to happen. Part of that is fixing how we handle immigration in the first place, 7 years to become a citizen is crazy and only becomes a job security item for the INS. At this point we are going to have to find a way to give folks that are here already a chance at citizenship, after paying a fine perhaps for their illegal entry, but trying to deport the perhaps 20 Million illegals is a sheer impossibility. Actual reform, a faster track to Citizenship, arresting the people that employ the illegals for greed and profit, as well as better border control are all parts of what NEED to be done. An "amnesty" of sorts, with the illegals paying some sort of a fine for their entry and then fast tracked, from the end of the line, to start them on their way to Citizenship so that they can pay taxes and not be afraid of deportation, will in turn work to help remove those unscrupulous businesses that hire illegals also. As much as anything, the money from working here is a major draw for these people, even at illegally low wages, so if we remove that facet, the unscrupulously illegal businesses, then there would be a decreased flow, which would trickle down to very few coming across.

This is a problem that is all shades of grey, not the black and white that the right would have us believe, and President Obama is working towards fixing some of those problems. However, with all of the OTHER problems facing us now, the illegal immigration problem is actually small potatoes compared to the general economy and the intransigence of the banks with regards to lending to businesses and the corporations, with their record profits, to restart hiring here in the US and the Repubs absolute Refusal to do anything to help the middle class and poor.

no joe:

Great news and happy birthday to you!!!!!!

No Jo:

Have you noticed...the only posters who have wished you and the clild well have been Democrats. I guess the Republicans just don't care so much.

Ron,

Oh no . . . you should not have posted that observation about no joe's well wishers! You just set yourself up for the obligatory "Republicans have jobs!" retort!

lol

Ron:

Not so sure progressives will prevail but change will prevail. Whether conservative or progressive or some other kind of socio-political philosophy prevails as a result from the change, whether good or bad for a nation, and whether a nation even survives all depends on how the people respond to change. I believe the first thing people need to do in order to maintain a Nation is to recognize that the Nation will change and evolve, and then to make the necessary plans and adjustments to integrate those changes into their society successfully. Failure to so so can result in chaos and the end of a Nation.

As we tend to be a conservative bunch of folks our history of accepting and integrating change has been slow. People do not like fast paced change. or frequent change. This is why you'll see people voting more conservative after a period of progressive activity and vice versa. They'll say ok, it's time to be more progressive and to make some changes. Then they'll say ok, it is time to slow down and elect more conervatives individuals. Our very nature has a great deal to do with determining which side of the political spectrum wins and loses elections. The people of the U.S. (when given the choice) will move forward and will be progressive, but they like to move at a conservative pace. This nature and behavior is ok except in those cases where an issue arises that requires a quicker pace of change or attention than what the people are willing to experience, as Immigration Reform. They know we need to change or to enact some changes and to attend to the issue. But many are just not yet ready. I suppose another term for this is cultural lag. The principles and beliefs of many have not yet caught up with the diversity that this country has been and is already experiencing.

Nash: That brought on a smile. But ain't it the truth. Republicans only care about themselves and their own money. Everyone else...to the back of the line.

Happy birthday NJ and glad to hear of a medical crisis averted. That has to be a load off your mind.

NoJo,

Great news on your child and happy birthday. Stay safe and be well.

Best wishes for your daughter, NJNB.

Pub's don't look back either.

I'm fine with building a wall. Let the immigrants come in using the standard procedures that everybody has been using for some time now. Otherwise, deport them. Why is this so difficult..?

no jo -- happy birthady and good news about your grandaughter. I wasn't planning on posting today, but felt compelled after the idiotic comments about evil Republicans. So here goes:

E.J Dionne, the extreme left wing columnist I just luv to hate, is at it again this morning. Today he's pounding on the GM bailout drum, going on and on about what a fabulous thing government did. And oh doncha' know, that episode proves beyond doubt that government intervention works for the greater good of all mankind.

What a pile of rubbish. In April GM paid back $5.8B in government loans, and paid it back ahead of schedule. At that time, as well as today in Dionne's column, that early payback is touted as evidence of the remarkable turnaround in GM's fortunes, a turnaround that would not have been possible without the role of an activist government. That's true as far as it goes, but there's more to the story and the full story tends to get overlooked by folks of E.J.'s ilk. Because GM is still on the hook for big money and the reality is the loan payback only amounts to about 10% of what the company owes to the taxpayers.

Besides the $5.8B in loans provided to GM by the U.S. and Canadian governments, the U.S. also exchanged cash for an equity stake in GM, cash to the tune of $52B. The only way we the taxpayer can get that money back within any reasonable timefrsme is for GM to sell stock to the public and hopefully raise sufficient funds to cover its remaining debt. Don't hold your breath. While it might be true there's a sucker born every minute, it's not clear there's enough suckers out there to pony up $52B for an unprofitable company that's still got a long way to go to be considered a viable, sustainable manufacturer.

Then E.J. plays the Wall Street card to note that the ingrates of the financial world would have gone down the tubes without government intervention, so what's the problem with bailing out GM? The problem is that the financial infrastructure of the whole world was at risk of crumbling and the issue at hand was much larger than saving the butts of the Wall Street fat cats. In the GM case, there was (and still is) plenty of auto manufacturing capacity around the world and there was never a danger that cars would never be built ever again. The only danger was that a bloated, inefficient car manufacturer like GM would be permitted to reap what it had been sowing for years. And what it had been sowing was unpopular cars that more and more consumers were choosing not to buy. It's reward for that behavior would have been (could have been, should have been) a trip to bankruptcy court.

Dionne concludes his column today by saying: "But honestly: without government, we would have lost large parts of our auto industry. Doesn't this matter to anybody?" The answer E.J. is that it only matters to those who think it is appropriate for government to rescue bloated, inefficient companies that make products which are widely available from other leaner and meaner companies throughout the world. It only matters to those who would intervene in the markets to subsidize inefficiency, reward failure and replace the collective judgment of millions of individual market participants with their own. In short, it only matters to leftists.

Great news No Jo!! I had a "miracle" baby 25 years ago and he is still a miracle!!

Happy Bday also!

It's funny how EJ and his fellow lefty liberals conveniently "forget" about the 90% of the GM bailout that taxpayer's are likely to have to eat. Same thing with the bottomless taxpayer money pits Fannie and Freddie.

But, at least we now have "free healthcare for all".

If I were not ignoring Bill from Fairfax, I would have hadto type alot of words about all the stuff he typed that basically was equivalent to "AAAAAAARGH!" . . . so that decision is a win-win for me! ;o)

The GM bailout worked, much to the consternation of the folks who are so heavily invested in President Obama failing.

P.S. Joe in Albany . . . afforadable healthcare is not the same as free healthcare . . . but of course, you knew that. I'm starting to think that much of the bitterness we are seeing these days is a result of all that crow and sour grapes going down the wrong pipe for the many "faux conservatives" out there who are not really opposed to spending as a concept, but rather are opposed to spending that doesn't go to them.

Bill ~ Neither Wall Street's behavior nor GM's should have been rewarded with bailouts. But the fact is that the people who would have been most hurt by not bailing out GM were the individual manufacturing workers, who unlike the Wall Street fat cats, were not culpable in the decision making that led to GM's near collapse. Although you may want to blame the unions, the fact that the workers made $70 with benefits didn't cause GM's problems. The decisions of fat cats to build outdated, defect-ridden cars that no one wanted to buy at any price point did that. Distasteful as it may have been to bail GM out, it would have been even more distasteful -- and also disastrous for the economy -- to let the average workers suffer for their poor decision making.

As for E.J. Dionne, I happen to love his stuff. Compassion for average folks is a big hit with me. Your logic, and especially the last paragraph, also laced heavily with bias, but distinctly lacking in compassion, not so much.

Nash, the GM bailout "worked" ONLY if the taxpayer's get their $50+ billion back AND we aren't right back here again with a new bailout in 5 or 10 years. Until then, it's nothing more than a $50+ billion giveaway to the UAW.

The stock holders, dealers (mostly small businessmen), independent suppliers, and all the people who are supported all or in part by the spending that comes to them as a result of the auto industry haven't benefitted?

Maybe it won't work out in the end. At this point it's hard to make a realistic case that the economy isn't in better shape with lower unemployment as a result. Maybe it's only 10% of the money, but that's 10% that's ahead of schedule when most of the nay sayers were sure it would NEVER come back.

Bill. It was a loan. What you fail to realize is that the Obama administration required GM and Chrysler to make significant restructuring efforts for the 21st century in exchange for the dollars. I find it disgusting that people think helping Amercan companies during a crisis when foreign countries were aiding theirs should not have happened. Your side belly aches about jobs yet your side was willing to add another million to the ranks of the unemployed. Even Dick Cheney supported helping the auto companies (we can't allow Hoovervilles) but apparently that fact has escaped the GOPer memory bank.

I like E.J. Dionne--he at least is willing to tell the truth; if Pres Obama had not stepped in, the USA would have lost a huge sector of our American owned manufacturing--the very industries that were used in WWII to build airplanes and tanks. Your arguments are as tiresome and pathetic as the GOP's claim that tax cuts for the weathy do not require spending cuts.

IR,

I think the hand writting is on the wall. I have seen over the weekend many articles that indicate BP is pulling back. Many of the fishermen they hired have been let go, they are still using prison labor etc.

What I am afraid of is where did all the oil go overnight. I suspect and many supoort this, that it is still there but under the surface. Out of sight out of mind.

Has any body noticed that the coverage of the BP spill has gone off the front page repalced by Lohan going to jail, etc.

Is It A Crime To Not Have Money?

When elephants run the grass get trampled. The urban, terroist, GOP and Neo Nazi Tea Baggers have this fetishization that the more they hype lies about the economy and hypocrisy the more of US will run with their elephants. Talk about stuck on stupid. Just look at the contrast. More Americans are unemployed, This is because of the big elephants' terroisit war on America. This GOP thinks organizing fake grass roots by same ole players like Dick Amery's "Freedom Works'' that taking it to the Streets will make a difference. Ha ha, gawd, are they wrong. If we fall for that same ole scheme they will be sucessful in turning America into the "banana republic" that the GOP so fetishizes just to regain the White House. This is why we need to be carefully on alert to set the record straight. It 's silly because the suffering is from the devastion the Republicans have heaped on this country since their venerable St. Raygun was in the WhiteHouse. Spolier Alert to Right wing wackos: The end is not near President Obama. Your fetishizes will not be realized. The negative obstructions and lies has been a huge annoyance to progress.

Phyllis Schlafly told Papa Bear, Bill O'Reilly, on his show ,"the Obama administration is trying to "subsidize illegitimacy" with government assistance to the poor and unemployed. She also noted that "the blacks" and "unmarried women" make up the two biggest demographics of Obama voters." What? So what's it gonna take before the verdict is in folk; corrupt democratic Congressional leaders, Hispanic Day Workers, Obama's family, gay marriage, the an imagined Sharia law planned Muslim center , or pre- Reconstrustion? Some body's gotta go. Meanwhile Dick Cheny's laying low toting batteiers so his artifical heart can get an electrical charge. I wonder if Cheney will give some of that back for the shoody electrical work Halibuton did in Iraq or the 11 people killed in the Gulf? Did I meention all the crooks and liars

Forward forever, Backwards never.

Good post, I.R. Let's hope Thad Allen remains vigilant and keeps BP responsible. No doubt BP wants to move on but it is critical they not be allowed to walk away. It reminds me of Hurricane Katrina, the damage remained but the focus disappeared. When we drove back from Florida along the Gulf coast, it was amazing to see the damage still present, whole neighborhoods vacant and looking just as they did when the water receded.

Beverly, appreciated the post. Where do old cranks like Phyllis Schlafly store their brains?

As a Mobilian I am hoping and praying that the 'kill' works. I am much less enthused about the prospect of eating local seafood. I saw the beaches covered with sandy tar balls that rolled back and forth in the sand under the waves. Until it can be proven otherwise I think it's only logical to assume that there are tar balls laying on the gulf floor among the shrimp and crab which means the food will be tainted with petroleum chemicals. I want testing. Lots and lots of testing. A crew of scientists showed how a perfectly clean looking beach is actually contaminated with "pulverized tar balls" and petroleum chemicals by using florescent light. It was scary...

Jody, That would be in their rear ends.

IR ~ I heard Ron Cavnar this morning questioning why BP has elected to go with the top kill option prematurely, when the relief well is so close to being finished.

Have you heard anything about this because it makes me wonder if there's something they're not telling us. Maybe the relief well is going to miss by two inches or something. Or does it just signal BP's confidence?

By the way, my own opinion is that BP is in the beginning stages of a trenched earth PR campaign to minimize the long-term magnitude of this disaster, and ultimately to convince us that there never was any oil spill at all. We just imagined the whole thing.

What bothers me is that the federal government appears to be complicit in this.

Jody ~ They store their brains in saran wrap, which went out of style years ago for greeting your husband at the door.

Can you even imagine Phyllis Schafly dressed only in saran wrap?

Anna Molly,

Apparently part of the aim of the new top kill is to make the final stoppering below easier by pushing down some of the oil with their heavy mud and cement. Not sure if that will help much, but that is what they are saying anyways.

As for Phyllis Schafly in saran wrap: that is enough to gag even a Repub maggot, let alone a Dem.....

Anna Molly in answer to your question as far as I can tell right now the Top kill is only the first step in the process that they are going to use. At this point they are going to use the cap on the well casing and plug the well casing itself. They are then going to use the relief well to get access to the area surrounding the casing to see if they still have a leak around the well casing and they will use it irregardlous to seal this area and put the double whammy on it. They can also use the relief well to supplement the Top Kill if the reading that their getting back indicates that it isn’t sealing the casing. From what I understand the relief well is about 10 feet off at this point so when they need it they should be about a day off from braking thru. There are still several scenarios where things could go wrong but let’s keep our fingers crossed that what they are doing will work this time and we can remove the Gusher from the picture and concentrate on the aftermath

M.Fisher that is exactly the point that I'm trying to get to. We are going to have to have increased inspections and testing for years in order to assure ourselves that the products coming out of the Gulf are safe. Shoud B.P. at least be on the hook for some of that expense. If the folks that worked on the Exxon Valdese are any indication we are going to be dealing with increased health problems in the Gulf area for years. B.P. should be on the hook for that. No more privatising the profits and publicising the loss. B.P. made the mess and now they should own the results.

Thanks, B. Agreed as to Phyllis Schlafly, although to really "b" honest, not many of us would withstand that sort of scrutiny. But the unwrapping part might be fun, anyway.

Well said. Hard to believe the repubs would vote against helping 9/11 victims, not so hard to believe they would vote to protect their lobbyist and corporate donors.

Well said USN, the Repubs are digging their hole deeper and deeper. Where will it end, only once the Repubs are removed further from power than they are so that they can no longer hold up legislation by a minority hold vote. The Senate and House rules need to be changed so that NOONE can hold up legislation like this. It is a sheer travesty of justice and the Americans without Millions are the losers every time. 3 bills which would have helped the public are shot down because the Repubs CANNOT allow the Dems and President Obama to succeed in helping the middle class and poor and get the economy moving in the right direction again. The Repubs are actively TRYING to destroy America for their own political gain.

I think that it is time for the Dems to push and get through the House and Senate by reconciliation if needed, a 50% property tax on the top 10% of the wealthy for one year. NO deductions, and make sure that it affects their money market bonds and stocks as well. Same with the Corporations. I think that we would pay off the entire National Debt and have money to spare, repay Social Security the nearly $3 trillion that past administrations stole from the fund and get us back to a stable base. Of course, the Repubs would scream that it would affect hiring, but since the rich and corporations are not hiring anyways, what is the difference?? We would get out of debt and be able to afford the programs that we have and the rich and corporations would HAVE to hire to get themselves headed back to their wealth. We need to remove all of the special tax breaks for the corporations, end corporate welfare permanently. Tax breaks for small businesses would bolster their hiring ability for now, once they are back to more prosperous then the tax breaks could be scaled back and removed. Taxes on speculation need to be increased to the point that those that prosper ONLY on betting on pricing, and buying up as much of the products that they are betting on so that prices DO raise, needs to happen to the degree that they do not profit from these activities. The speculation market only serves the very wealthy and totally skews the supply and demand equation, pumping money from the many to the uber wealthy who no longer need that kind of income flow.

The Repubs have painted themselves and the rich and corporations into a corner that they will have a very hard time getting out of unless THEY are seen to actually HELP turn the economy around and drop their smear, fear, lies and hate campaign against the rest of us 95% of the populace that are not too rich to fail!

USN, I think you've made an outstanding point with your comment about the difference between what's legal and what's ethical. The Knights of Deregulation have worked hard over the last 30 years to remove effective regulation from nearly every aspect of life, then defend morally bankrupt action by saying "no laws were broken." It's the reason why so little has been done to bring the Captains of Wall Street to justice for the financial implosion. Most of what was done was legal even though nearly all Americans are deeply offended by their actions. It's time to bring back that cliche from Grandpa's time, "There oughta be a law!!"

Jody, B.Honest, John,

Thank you for the kind comments. You guys have hit it right on the head. Good post you three, thanks.

Jody,

Great week opener. Things are going to take time to change. It took the previous administration 8 years to totally screw things up. It will take this president and those that follow him decades to recover. The problem is that America wants solutions now if not sooner. It just can not happen that way. The damage from Bush is so extensive that many many years will be needed to dig ourselves out. Also it seems as time marches on we see more issues that need to be addressed that where not apparent months ago.

Only time will heal these wounds.

Very well said Jody.

US Navy. I know it will. Fixing Bush's multiple messes in itself will take years let alone the damage done by decades of undoing effective laws which stemmed from the Great Depression and decades of refusing to address big problems and hard stuff.

Previous administrations and legislatures have 'kicked the can' farther and farther down the road on so many proplems that are finally too big to ignore, and now the chickens have come home to roost. President Obama is being busier than a one-legged man at a butt kicking contest and the Repubs are doing their best to kick the can further along. If only they would come to the table in an honest fashion and actually work with the Dems then we could seriously address the problems that have been building up for decades. However, right now the right sees the distress of the American economy and the poor and middle classes as a political political tool to try to grab the reigns of power again, and we ALL saw what happened the last time that they had them. For either political party to have full control of the Government is not what the Founding Fathers envisioned, we NEED the Repubs to stop blocking everything that can help America get back on track and be honest in their representation of their electorate: there are Dems and other progressives in those red states and they are not being honestly represented by the party of NO presently. The Poor and middle classes are not being represented by the party of NO, and at this rate the party of NO are going to see voters in November saying NO right back at them. We NEED a Loyal Opposition, but they need to be loyal to America, not to the people with too much money to ever fail, unlike the other 95% of us who are NOT being represented by the Repubs.

While I agree with the spirit of Obama's goals, the implimentation of many reasonable ideas will never happen. From my own observations, many americans still follow an old philosophy. We'd much rather deal with the devil that we do know than the a devil that we don't know.

Case in point, the whole subject of clean energy shakes my head. I love the concept and it is less impactful on our environment than our current methods. But the subject of oil is one that we're all familiar with. Therefore we're kind of desensitized on the subject. However the activists are all out in force against clean energy and winning. There's a lot of irony in that situation.

Environmentalists have been protesting solar and wind power systems out west. Arguements have covered the potential deaths of birds and bats in the wind turbines to interrupting migration patterns of armadillos with sun generator panels. The list is a rather long one. Of course, many fossil fuel companies are responsible with giving these environmentalists funding to continue their crusades. These environementalists are so focused on their own small picture concerns that they blind themselves to the big picture energy concerns.

In a nut shell, that's america for you. We'd love to change for the better. I'd hope to see that happen. But we are also a nation which can be easily bought. Those with power and influence like our current system since they know how to milk it, so they don't want things to be different. And since these various interest groups are the ones who are quietly pulling the strings in our country, I'm sadly skeptical about us really changing.

Good Morning Feisty: Great post! Just a note to you, IR and others, my home computer caught a "bug" and I may be down for about 48 hours. You'll know when I'm back and running.

You've said much worse about Bush and repubs. Stop your whining and stop taking this message board for a network that nobody watches so seriously. Boo-hoo-hoo.

If nobody watches CU... why ya concerned?

Thanks for making my point! ;0)

Feisty,

Nice post to start the week. Last week was a terrible week for this great country. The republicans block the Disclosure Bill, Small Business Lending / Tax Cut Bill and the 9/11 First Responder Bill. All these had substantial majority support to be trash by the party of no.

I just do not know what it will take for Americans to wake up and stating smelling the sh!t coming from the other side of the aisle.

I have never seen so much hypocrisy from one group of people. They say thing one and do the opposite typically at the same time. We want to lower the deficit and in the same sentence they want to add 3.5 Trillion to it by keeping the Tax Cuts.

They claim they want to create jobs, lower taxes on small businesses, help them get loans to keep afloat and they defeat all three in a single blow by trashing the Small Business Bill when we had a 59 Vote yea vs 41 vote no. Amazing what we have become. The world is laughing at us, our soldiers are dying, Insurance companies ripping off their beneficiaries, people are loosing their homes, can not feed their kids, forget a good education, and the richest 2% have seen their wealth increase to record levels.

Good post Ffeisty, isn't it amazing how when you make a point about the teabagger republicans they come back with a post that proves just what you were saying about them. That's stupidity at it's best. This ones for you CU, no joe all blow, JoAnnSmith, all the little doggies out there and all you teabagging republicans.

Good post, Feisty. My guess is most of the radical right could only define liberal or progressive as not republican so it must be evil.

Good post, Feisty. My guess is most of the radical right could only define liberal or progressive as not republican so it must be evil.

Mo,

Touche'

Yep, they do it all the time. Sad thing is they do not even know it, they are so brain dead and driven by Rush, Glenn and the tea baggers that they cannot comprehend what hypocrisy is.

Jody:

I would say that most people who call themselves Progressive doesn't even know the meaning of that word.

Fiesty:

You need to stop taking this damn message board so serious. People are people and everyone is not going to like you. People can say whatever they want in America. I heard much worse about Bush.

You are the pot calling the kettle black and you think you're righteous because the AMEN choir applaudes.

Last time I checked Bush is NO longer President ITM! You can't play the Bush 'card' out of convenience...

I'll take the 'message board' as serious as I want to... great thing about FREE speech is as much anger & hate that you display daily - I CAN counter with hope & optimism!

Do you really think I give a rat's azz as to whether or not people like me? LMFAO at that one... ITM! Pretty outrageous even by your standards... Thanks for the giggles! ;0))))

Nicely done Jody. Those with a little honesty inside have to admit that there's some bad on both sides, and the bad actors should be dealt with. The best on both sides also have something real and serious that motivates them, only good can come from trying to understand that. It can only be done from by listening and thinking, however. Interesting that you've called for a move toward accepting each other's differences and instead the immediate reaction is pointing and crying "He did it too!!" like a poorly disciplined preschooler.

See you on the other side, Ron.

I wouldn't give Fox perspiration off of sensitive portions of my anatomy!!

And the seating order in the White House briefing room matters because . . .

Oh yeah, it doesn't.

Hurrah Fox finally won something, they ought to really proud of themselves. Besides nobody really wanted it besides Fox Bloomberg and NPR anybody else would have probably blew Fox out of the water. So do your chest thumping Joe it's all you and Fox have got. You Fox lemmings are easily amused.

This is one of those "who cares" where anyone sits because seating has nothing to do with intelligent questions. What they should do is rotate every three months like musical chairs.

Maybe if they sit closer to the front, Fox reporters will actually get their facts straight, assuming the reason why Fox reports so much nonsense and pants-on-fire misinformation is because their reporters are hard of hearing.

And this means Jack. The only thing it did was move the stink close to Gibbs.

The WH press corps is so petty and childish that they have food fights over the seating chart...really? I get that a reporter standing on the back wall is less likely to have either camera time or a question answered, but come on...

Doesn't it strike you, Joe, how much they're acting like children over this? Except children usually want to sit in the back row. Ditto John B's comment.

US Navy, is there not something inherently wrong with forcing somebody to buy something and then taxing them to boot?

U.S. Navy . . . I posted this below as well . . . it is amazing how quickly health care lies spread through the nation, when the truth just can't get "traction". . . maybe someone should start emailing the truth around.

Mercy.

Great post, thanks for pointing this out. Amazing how quickly lies spread but truth has a hard time finding sunlight.

Dirt, is there not something inherently wrong with allowing people to incur medical bills that are impossible to pay without insurance, so they duck the bills or declare bankruptcy? Then those costs get passed onto others and folded into my premiums because they have to get covered somehow. Your freedom ends where mine begins. The borderline between those two places has been a point of contention at least as far back as the Roman Senate.

I don’t understand why an ethics issue affects an entire Party. It’s not like the other members of the Party were in collusion with him/her or tried to hide evidence.

Ethics violations have never affected my view of a Party. If it were my Representative or Senator then I would have a great deal of concern about that individual.

That would be like judging all of the corporate officers and the Board of Directors as bad people because the Corporate Controller hid some liabilities.

Dennis: of course, you felt the same way when it was Republican with ethics problems, did you not?

I thought so.

no jo,

I said it clearly - "Ethics violations have never affected my view of a Party."

That means any Party {period}.

Seeing as how you think the rangel trial will effect the Democratic party no joe all blow, I'm guessing you also think the ensign criminal trial will affect the teabagging republican party.

There's a difference between ethics violations and criminal violations. Duke Cunningham went to prison, and a good number went from ethical to criminal via Jack Abramhoff. Ethics violations can be simply mistakes or big mistakes. John McCain knows all about ethics problems and he learned from the Keading Five. I'm with Dennis, it doesn't matter which party--if a legislator messes up, they need to fess up and correct it or get out. But they also are entitled to a fair hearing to either clear their name, be reprimanded or sent packing.

IF they are so damned tired of it, THEN why has crap like this gone on for at LEAST a century. And you just KNOW by now that every last sanctimonious self righteous GOP Congressman has a hooker or mistress on the side. Ho hum

You know, David, there's plenty of wrongdoing on BOTH sides of the aisle. I won't start the "match" game with you that "your guy did X"; it's not productive. What will be productive is that the US citizenery is standing up to say they've had enough of it, on both sides.

Agreed. If Rangel violated ethics restrictions and deserves to pay the appropriate penalty. No different than Ensign and Vitter.

Stop defending that hate-whitey-b**ch the same way you defend Islamic terrorists. Rangel and Waters are two corrupt pols who happen to be black. The dems racial/identity politics will soon come back to bite them in the ass (again). The race card will be played and denied by the American people.

Hey Chuckles Doll - so where did I ever defend the Islamic terrorists? Cite my comment saying this or just shut up little limpwristed conservative christian liar! No I just say that you corrupt conservative christians are an even worse threat to our secular Democracy than the Muslim terrorists because that's the ugly truth you don't want to face up to. Sorry little facist racist but since the racist glove fits you freaks so well don't whine about being labeled facist racists.

Now go back to the Fox Noose channel where you can listen to Racist Breitfart and Racist Beck with all the other Braindead Beckerheads who love the official propaganda channel of the Neo-Nazi White Supremacist KKK John Birch Birther racists.

Getting Chuckey Doll to go Ballistic, Priceless!

Eric:

You need to take your f..t azz somewhere else with that SECULAR Democracy BS everyday. We all know YOU don't believe in God. You will have to answer for that one day.

You say so much BS that you forget what you have said. You call everyone who doesn't bow to your little Liberal ways a racist. We all know you just love African Americans and Mexicans...oh I forgot your best friend is black.

You need to take your soft butt back to sleep.

ITM,

You seem to misunderstand the 'Secular' part of your statement. Eric believes there is no magic man he has to answer to. Who is the soft one again? Maybe your kind will have to answer for their crimes in my lifetime. Prayer does not make admirable domestic or foreign policies.

Rarely do I see Eric's comments as "Liberal" ways but more like common sense. So once again who is the soft one?

Dan,

Evidently you are new here and I'll just leave it at that Mr. Travis county.

I get the feeling the media is scared of the republican party, I felt that way through the Cheney/Bush years and I feel it now. Is it their afraid they will take away their corporate welfare.

I get the feeling the media is scared of the republican party, I felt that way through the Cheney/Bush years and I feel it now. Is it their afraid they will take away their corporate welfare.

Sorry for the double post.

You're right about that. The fact that both Waters and Rangel are black is coincidence. I don't see it as racial but party bias. Washington DC and the media in general still tend to push the GOP line.

Thanks for posting this Houston . . . this is the type of subtle stuff that is done to influence folks to believe lies daily.

Kind of depressing.

Nashville_fan:

Thanks for posting this Houston . . . this is the type of subtle stuff that is done to influence folks to believe lies daily.

It's the subtlety of the mainstream media that concerns me more than Fox News. Fox is just in-your-face Republican propaganda and outrageous lies that nobody is going to believe unless they are rabid rightwingers who have built up a lifetime immunity to factual information. But news media like CNN can deceive people who really want to base their opinions on good information into thinking they are getting it. That's a lot more destructive to our democracy, in my opinion.

I noticed the GDP thing also, actually on one station not sure which they showed a big 2.5% number superimposed over a red arrow pointing downward.

Concerning the dream act is actually bipartisan legislation from Orrin Hatch and Dick Durbin

http://dreamact.info/

DREAM Act, qualifying undocumented youth would be eligible for a 6 year long conditional path to citizenship that requires completion of a college degree or two years of military service.

Good post, Houston. Thanks for the report.

There was a big article on recent deporations in the Sunday paper. There was a picture of a tearful father touching one side of the glass and his wife and toddler on the other--the caption listed the names and said simply one last look to last for a long time. It was sad to see.

Yes, he broke the law and the law must be enforced but destroying families is wrong. It seems to me it is time to stop using illegal immigrants as pawns in the game of politics and start addressing and solving the problem.

Right Houston, can't disagree in the slightest. By default every issue is framed by the MSM using terms and language directly from the Right. How much of it is inclination of the media and how much of it is "working the refs" on the part of Conservatives I don't know, but it does affect how issues are percieved and handled. A perfect example is "Health Care Reform." In reality it's no such thing. Except for minor things that everyone agrees on like electronic records there is no meddling with nurses, doctors, hospitals, or any of the entities that actually provide our health CARE. If it had been phrased as Health INSURANCE Reform from the very beginning we would have had an entirely different path to the eventual passage of legislation. The law actually focuses on the way we deal with INSURANCE rather than CARE and a substantial majority has had issues getting paid in a timely and fair manner by their insurers. In reality the "Liberal Media" is a mirage, one more bogeyman to fan the flames of fear on the Right.

The problem with Reid is that he comes across as a wimpy Mr. Rogers with no confrontational balls. The Dems need someone who can just plain old kick ass, not form committees

That wimpy Mr. Rodgers was a Navy seal that had many, many confirmed kills in Viet Nam. The problem with many people on this web is they are not only badly informed but ignorant and "wimpy" themselves.

Nashvile,

Good post. This idiot lie really has grown legs. I am seeing it everywhere, even some of by business clients are claiming this and have started carry a brochure to hand them. Seems most of these that are saying this have a NFIB sticker in their window. Connection?????

Another one I saw a lot was that abortions (of any kind) are covered under the HCR bill as well. Pundits where claiming that President Obama had lied and broke his promise. This bogus claim comes from two sources. One is from Bone Head himself and the other from the National Right to Life Committee. This had to do with a State Law in PA that did allow this, and they thought it would also apply to HCR. On July 14 the following statement from DHHS was issued.

"In PA and ALL states abortions will not be covered by PCIP except in the event of Rape, Incest or where the life of the mother would be endangered." on 7/15 PA acknowledge this as well as other states.

These just keep on coming.

Have a great day and nice posts today.

Good post, Nashville. It is a shame and reprehensible that politicians and their zealous pals make claims that are simply false to frighten and confuse people and sad that some do not bother to "verify" what they are told.