E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSAs we pointed out earlier this week, the Obama White House keeps talking about the economy and health care -- because even if they're unpopular in the short run, they're hoping attitudes change in the long run.
And that seems to be the case with the health-care law.
A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll, the Washington Post reports, shows that 50% have a favorable view of the law, versus 35% who hold a negative view.
The approval level was the highest for the legislation since it was enacted in March, after a divisive year-long debate. In April, the poll found 46 percent in favor and 40 percent opposed.
Though the legislative battle is over, the political tug-of-war continues. Democrats and Republicans have been fighting to shape public opinion on the issue in hopes of influencing the fall elections.
Leave a Comment:
Pure White House agenda fed to the press....... much like telling the art community to spin their agenda to the public:
“You are the thought leaders *,” the artists were told. “You are the ones that, if you create a piece of art or promote a piece of art or create a campaign for a company, and tell our country and our young people sort of what to do and what to be in to; and what’s cool and what’s not cool. And so I’m hoping that through this group and the goal of all this and the goal of this phone call, is through this group that we can create a stronger community amongst ourselves to get involved in things that we’re passionate about as we did during the campaign but continue to get involved in those things, to support some of the president’s initiatives, but also to do things that we are passionate about and to push the president and push his administration.” This from Michael Skolnik, political director for a hip-hop mogul.
“We’re going to need your help, and we’re going to come at you with some specific ‘asks’ here,” added Buffy Wicks, deputy director of the White House Office of Public Engagement. “But we know that you guys are ready for it and eager to participate, so one we want to thank you, and two, I hope you guys are ready.” The White House Office of Public Engagement, together with the NEA and “United We Serve,” an initiative created by President Obama, held this telephone conference in August with hand-picked artists from across the country.
They are the “thought leaders,” according to the White House, being directed to change our minds. They are the thought leaders, whose jobs are to tell us what to do and think.
The things said in that telephone conference last summer were out of line. The only problem with your comment is that it is completely irrelevant because this article is nothing like telling the art community to spin the White House agenda.
This is the media reporting a poll results from a private foundation. Just because you don't like reality doesn't mean what you're experiencing is a illusion created by propaganda. Nice try though.
Pat, since we are doing a lot of quotes which do not appear to match the topic exactly,
"I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport."
George Bush—Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001
Do you have responses just sitting ready to go as soon as a related topic apears? If so, you may want to read the article before you copy and paste your comment.
Patrick Neal-2092785
"Pure White House agenda fed to the press"
It sounds like you think you are an expert at recoginzing "agenda to be fed to the press". I don't think so as the polls have shown in the past that the h/c bill is gaining support and will more than likely continue.
Just because the "other"channel (Fox) is great at numbing the thought processes of the voting public by promoting their agenda with falsehoods and glitsy colors and "breaking news" and 24 hour coverage with enough negatives to fill a three bedroom house does not necessarily set the tone for most of the other channels. Good try though.
Charles - Great post!!!
We have not paid for one aspirin, and you liberal thinkers think everything is improving...Just wait until the bill hits....It is going to be amazing...People who have not paid a dime will now get a bill for over $1800 (that is the governments estimate, and government is usually low) and that is with out any health issues...If you have health issues, that will double...So, then add in the people that no matter what you threaten them with, will not pay for any of it, and you have a formula for upping the cost to others...the DMV will be dispensing health care...Neat...license, driver's test, and EGK all at one stop shopping...I can't wait...Wake up America...Your freedom is going before your eyes...
Patrick, your comments are not only off topic for this article, but totally RUDE to the art community and artists within that community. You make it sound like thier only artistic function is propaganda for the White House to the 'dumb masses' of our citizens. Your education is the arts is sorely lacking!
Back on the topic at hand, how about we wait until open enrollment season when everybody sees how much their rates have gone up and how many changes have been made to their insurance plans before the pro-"mandatory insurance" side declares "victory". My guess is that these numbers will reverse again in short order.
red maple, that meeting is a fact and your complaint should be with the people who were at that meeting, not with Patrick. They were after all the ones that made it look like the art community's "artistic function is propaganda for the White House to the 'dumb masses' of our citizens." Patrick didn't do that. The attendees of that meeting did.
BTW red maple, apparently Obama administration officials are not the only Democrats who just assume that the arts community is the propaganda arm of their party: http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/White-encouraging-art-crowd-to-make-anti-Perry/jILmLp884UehqwMYkfxRAA.cspx
Dwayne, you forgot one of the best scare tactics of all, the "death panels" that are going to decide when Grandma dies. Oops, that one has already been dismissed.
There are some facets of the Health Care bill that are kicking in already. I have gotten notices from my Insurance company that copays are being eliminated for many preventive screening procedures. (Of course they raised their premiums by $50 a month, but they were doing that every year before the HCR bill anyway.) I do appreciate fewer copays, though.
Jimi710064, so what would you call the panel that recommended that women don't get mammograms before 50? Over half of the states are now following that panel's advice when administering their Medicaid. The first to do it California the state with by far the highest number of Medicaid recipients (twice as many as any other state). If you're 47...48...49 and want a mammogram in California or any of these other states, Medicaid will refuse to pay, meaning you will not get it putting your health at risk.
The mandatory health insurance legislation creates more of these panels with more power than the current one to impose their recommendations.
Oh yeah, and Jimi...if you think that it doesn't mean much because it's limited to Medicaid recipients, here's a little fact for you. Nearly 30% of California residents are on Medicaid. So seeing as how women make up a disproportionate percentage of Medicaid recipients, you can be sure that well over a third of women in California will potentially be affected by this "death" panel. http://www.statehealthfacts.org/profileind.jsp?cat=4&sub=52&rgn=6
Mike, panels like that have been recommending best practices within the medical fields for DECADES, and private insurance companies as well as Medicaid and Medicare have taken those recommendations under advisement when setting reimbursement policies. This is nothing new, and nothing that in any way is related to HCR.
John B, the mandatory health insurance legislation just created more of them (such as the IPAB) and gave them much more power. For instance, IPAB recommendations are automatically implemented if Congress does not act in a manner which reduces costs to the IPAB recommended target.
Wait a minute...wait just a gol-darned minute (sorry for the cussin')...did somebody say I'd be able to get health insurance for $1800 a year? Lemme do the math here, let's see 1800 divided by 12, carry the one, aw shoot, I run outta fingers..gotta take off my shoes..c'mere Honey, hold up your paw...ok.. HEY that's only $150 a month! Are you saying I can get health insurance for $150 a MONTH?
Lawd a mercy SIGN ME UP! I pay FIVE TIMES that much right now to insure me and the little woman.
But seriously folks, we are the richest nation on earth, our people have the highest standard of living on the planet (well, the "haves" do anyway) and yet hundreds of thousands of children go to bed hungry in this country. Millions lack basic health care insurance which means for the smallest illness they crowd the emergency rooms as indigent patients to get care. How many times have I heard the right DEMAND that we keep GOD in our pledge of allegiance, they want the TEN COMMANDMENTS posted at every court house, a Christmas tree on every court house lawn. They claim the the founding fathers were CHRISTIANS and were founding a Christian Nation. The root of the word Christian is CHRIST! Jesus Christ. Jesus taught that we should care for the poor and less fortunate.
I'll bet EVERY STINKIN' one of you anti-health-care-act claim to be a Christian. But you're ignoring what Jesus told you to do.
HYPOCRITES! You are all HYPOCRITES.
And hey folks, don't start with that "religious zealot" label again. I'm not a Christian. But I do not believe you have to be a "Christian" to appreciate and follow the teachings of the rabbi from Nazareth. They are good, kind, liberal guidelines for life. If more of you so-called Christians would actually LIVE the faith your proclaim so loudly we would not be having this dicussion.
The myth of the black welfare mother with 8 kids buying beer and cigs with her welfare check is JUST THAT..a MYTH. Most welfare recipients are WORKING POOR. They are poor because they are not paid enough to live on by their employer who most likely lives in a house large enough for ALL his employees to live there with him. They work hard, often more than one job and still need our help. That is a fact. Yes, there are welfare abusers just as there are wealthy people who knowingly hire illegal aliens, pay them less than minimum wage and pay them in cash.
According to the teachings of Jesus the true Christian helps the working poor and the welfare abuser without judgement.
We can afford to do this. We MUST do this if we want to call ourselves a great nation.
Remember, a nation is judged by the way it treats the least of it's citizens.
PEACE
The mandatory health insurance legislation hurts the working poor because they'll end up being the ones ultimately paying for it. The result for them will be one of two devastating consequences or a combination of both.
1) Starting wages will be cut and raises withheld for those without insurance as employers attempt to recover the costs of providing the insurance.
2) Prices at businesses that primarily employ minimum wage workers will have to raise prices in an attempt to recover the costs. The price inflation at these businesses will disproportionately affect the working poor because the working poor disproportionately purchase from these minimum wage businesses. The rich go to Saks, the poor to the Dollar Store. Guess which one will be raising it's prices to recover insurance costs.
3) A combination of 1 and 2...lower wages + higher prices.
Each of these real-life consequences takes food out of the working poor's already empty pantry. Seeing as how the working poor are primarily the young, they likely have little need for this insurance. There is a reason they're called the "young invincibles". The working poor will have no choice in the matter, their pantry will just be emptier because of this legislation.
This also does not account for the workers who will get laid off as small businesses jockey their payrolls to get under the subsidy cap or that these businesses will limit hiring and limit wage growth in the future so that they can stay under the cap and continue getting subsidies or that those businesses that may be on the fence regarding hiring undocumented workers now have a huge incentive to do so. The consequences caused by the mandatory health insurance legislation is terrible for the working poor!
Add to this the fact that this will drain the economy of resources and this resource drain necessarily reduces contributions to global charities. Ask any global charity worker what happens to their contributions when the US has an economic strain. They'll tell you that those contributions dry up. The US citizenry is by far the largest contributor to global charities. A vast majority of these charities deal with ongoing and devastating global health issues such as malaria prevention and care, AIDS prevention and care, upper respirator infection prevention and care, starvation prevention, caring for civil war orphans in Africa, etc.. Malaria alone infects a population nearly the size of the US every year, causing the death of a population greater than the size of San Fransisco. http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/malaria/en/index.html
With the charitable organizations' contributions cut by the financial strain of the mandatory health care legislation, the negative effect of these devastating diseases will skyrocket globally and multiple times the number of people will die of the affects of malaria and the like annually. So millions of people will die globally every year so that a small percentage of our citizens can keep their cars and their big screen TVs and not go through the terrible "pain" of bankruptcy and not getting credit for 7 years. Millions of deaths versus a few thousand bad credit reports...yeah...that's a fair trade.
So yes...Christian and against the mandatory health insurance legislation. What I don't see is how those that say this is beneficial to the working poor can say it with a straight face or look themselves in the mirror because the ultimate consequence of this will be financially devastating to the the working poor and even more devastating to the billions of poor globally.
PEACE
This is a repost of comments I posted in another newsvine discussion.
I studied economics at Kaplan. I'm continuing my education, at Strayer University. The country cannot go on with so many people not insured. We are paying their health tab in the form of higher medical bills. You responded to me in a civil tone. I want to reply just as politely. There has to be some kind of universal coverage. What happens when there is no coverage is people will ignore minor symptoms until they become life threatening. It's true that in time we will all die. But if minor problems are fixed right away it will drive the average cost of care down.
I'm for what works, lettings go as they are because some people have bad habits is not working. Do you think they are going to die quietly at home when they have a life threatening illness. Of course they aren't going too. Every visit by the uninsured to the emergency room increases the back log of unpaid medical bills. If this goes on long the system is going to explode.
If Your position is we cannot afford universal coverage, my position is that every year we put this off it will get worse until the backlog simply breaks the economy. I submit that for the long term survival of our economy we can't afford not to cover the uninsured. If HCR is so bad as it is proposed now what do you suggest we do to solve the problem?
Absolutely correct, Wade and well said. Our current system is in a death spiral. Wall Street insists that health insurance companies make higher profits every. single. year. So for that reason alone premiums increase. As premiums increase people drop out of the system, because they can't afford the premiums or because their employers can't afford the premiums. Those people get care which is largely paid for by tacking it onto the services of those who have insurance. Now it goes up faster. More people drop out of the system. It goes on and on.
Cant' wait to hear the Cheewowa Gang spin this one! :0)))
We all know how precious 'polls' are to them!
Hey Feisty - where did the little barky dog gang go? I'm still laughing that they really were only one demented fool from the right who would have been exposed once First Read switched to the new NewsWhine format.
Oh there here Eric! I'm surprised you haven't smelled the mangy mongrels!
Think... dangerfield - mixed bag - JoAnna Smith to name a few...
You didn't really think the new format would 'neuter' them now did ya?
Guess they weren't proud enough of their 'work' to continue under their old monikers... lol
Feisty,
I want to hear what Bone Head and Mc Chuckles got to say now. Wait until more of the benefits start to take effect and the American people start seeing the results. This should get better.
Retired;
It's refreshing to see that for once the FEAR card isn't working!
Grama's all over the country are still alive & kicking!
Nice try, Mark-
The last three major polling organizations offering data on Obamacare (Pollster.com) are:
CBS News 7/9-12/2010,
36% Favor-49% Oppose;
Public Policy Polling 7/9-12/2010,
40% Favor-53% Oppose;
Pew Research/National Journal 7/8-11/2010,
35% Favor-47% Oppose.
You can cherry-pick the polls all you like, Mark...
But, the majority of major polling organizations say that pluralities, or outright majorities, remain opposed to Obamacare.
Sure MB!!! Nice try!!!
Mixed,
Fair enough, but the trend is evident. Every month the opposition drops. By the time the new Congress takes office in 2011 it will be much more difficult to repeal this law.
Republicans promise that if they can’t repeal it they will defund it. But even that becomes increasingly difficult as popularity grows.
Before either of these actions can be considered the Republicans would have to gain the majority in the House and a veto proof majority in the Senate … ain’t gonna happen !!
Dennis: When more is known about how much more insurance is going to cost us working stiffs and having to pay taxes on employer contributions. I think you will see the polls all go in the tank. Add to that having a goverment board deciding if your treatment is appropriate evry middle class person in this nation is going to hate this thing. Any time law-makers pass a bill and exempt themselves you can bet it's not going to be pretty.
Jim-792457
Dennis: When more is known about how much more insurance is going to cost us working stiffs and having to pay taxes on employer contributions
_________________
You WON"T be taxed Jim... but you already knew that now didn't you?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/hr3590.asp
Question to the rest of the righties around here... WHY don't any of YOU debunk this crap?
I know truth & honesty aren't high on your list of priorities... BUT... come on! You know it's going to be dispelled!
Dennis, Columbus, Ohio-
Yes, Dennis...the trend is evident.
Each of the polls I referenced, CBS News, Public Policy Polling and Pew Research/National Journal, all revealed a decrease in support for Obamacare this month from polling done by those organizations in April (Pew Research/National Journal), May (CBS and Public Policy Polling), and June (Public Policy Polling).
The Pollster.com average continues to show a plurality opposing Obamacare with Mark's new Kaiser poll included: 45.4% Oppose-41.7% Favor.
Furthermore, President Obama's job approval on the issue of health care shows an outright majority, 50.7%, disapproving, while 43.6% approve.
These figures are derived from the data of every major polling organization in the nation...not just the Kaiser Foundation.
Jim – “Dennis: When more is known about how much more insurance is going to cost us working stiffs and having to pay taxes on employer contributions.”
The tax doesn’t take effect until 2018 so don’t hold your breath for the negative opinions.
Sorry jim,
This was debunked last week. The cost of the insurance benefit IS NOT TAXABLE INCOME to you. You guys really need to do your homework or are you just fibbing????
MB
Hey you forgot to mention that The poll also tracks the popularity of the law’s major elements (most of which, it should be noted, haven’t yet taken effect). People of all political stripes generally like the notion of health insurance exchanges (87% overall), tax credits to small businesses (82%) and a filling-in of the Medicare doughnut hole (81%)
greenhx-
I'm sure that the folks who lived in the Third Reich loved the full employment enjoyed under that regime, but that hardly represents the big picture, does it?
I also imagine it would have been possible to craft a bi-partisan bill implementing the most popular aspects of health care reform, had the White House and Congressional Democrats decided to pursue that course.
But...they didn't, did they?
Feisty you have such a BIG mouth. You haven't got the slightest clue how much this heath care will cost. Keep following the flock you worthless sheep! This damn thing hasn't done anything yet. This bill does nothing to address the sky rocketing cost of heath care and that’s what it was intended to do. But my health care went up in cost. You followers probably don't realize it because it is obvious you don’t work. You spend all your time on this web site believing what ever crap the liberal losers at first read post. But hey, you get longer to do it now because your unemployment benefits were extended.
You sheep are not only lost in a fairy tail you are about to be devoured by the wolves.
And U.S. Navy how does it feel to be disabled defending the constitution of the United States and our freedom just have some racist bigot in the white house who obviously hates America and the middle class just giving those liberties away? Must make you proud.
And who the hell is Kaiser Family Foundation poll? 1000 illegal immigrants from Arizona?
Nice post Charles.
Easy there Bob!
Don't go and stroke out on me... wouldn't want you to have to use your health care insurance! lol
But my health care went up in cost
Where exactly is that rock your living under located? Poor persecuted Bob!
HELLO!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYONE'S cost of insurance has gone up that is the point!
Believe it or not... it isn't a vast left wing conspiricy to ONLY raise the rate of right wing nuts!
Insurance companies are into EQUAL opportunity when it comes to bending you over!
Bob1440886,
Is that you prison number after your name. I fully 100% support my president and fellow Americans like Feisty. You and your tea bag, right wing buddies are the ones I have the utmost contempt for.
President Obama is not a racist, but you know that.
You guys are the racists and we know that, you are the party of No Ideas, No Morals, No Ethics, No nothing. You demonize people less fortunate than you because of your own impotence.
You sir are a repugnant human being (and I use human lightly).
You and your party ran this country into the ground just like Bush did in his business ventures, and when you are exposed for all the lies, misinformation, corruption, bigotry, racism (just look at your own tea baggers) you attack us on a personal basis.
Sorry, we will not indulge you.
I pity you and feel sorry for you. Have a great day.
Touche' Retired!
Impressive summation of poor persecuted Bob!
oh goody - poll dancing!
Darn it, I gave my ones to the kiddos for a field trip,... I guess I can tape some quarters on 'em! Good enough!
When looking at the poll, the data seems to be inconsistent. The top 4 single-word descriptions given to the legislation in order of percentage of responses were: 1. Confused, 2. Disappointed, 3. Pleased, 4. Anxious. That 3 of these 4 have a negative connotation while the poll shows an overall positive reaction has to call the veracity of the poll into question.
Hey Feisty, I wouldn’t expect you to understand that as your rear-end hasn’t left your computer in years.
Navyvet that’s the problem with you narrow minded left wingnuts. If you are not happy getting screwed by the current administration you are either a teabag lapper or a bush follower. Your small mind will be your downfall. And if you think this country is in better shape today I’m guessing your disability is in your head.
I didn’t vote for Obama because every time he spoke I could see the crap dripping from his chin. On the other hand I didn’t vote for the senile old man either and when he picked that flakey puff as his running mate it was the start of the end for him. We were screwed regardless with them two to choose from. It was a sad day when this independent had to throw his vote away because the options were bad and bad.
You are a jerk. Talk about narrow minded, yours is about hair thin. We did not attack you until you attack us. When we call you out on it you do not like it and respond with more of the same crap and try and try to spin that we are attacking you. Sorry Bob you have been exposed. You claim to be an independent and the first thing out of your mouth is a personal attack instead of an intelligent discussion. Independents do not behave that way. Right Wingers and Tea Baggers do though and we have pretty much figured out what you are.
If you want to start over in a civil manner I am all for that and we probably could have a nice discussion, if not I wish you well
Mixed Bag wrote:
Well, MB, your reputation precedes you, and your reputation for being WRONG is well founded. The only thing you did was look at some compilation of polls, and then extrapolate based on either pure, biased conjecture or the utter stupidity that flows forth from trash and dishonesty sources like ClusterFox News.
Here are the facts you would have found if you right-wing nutters were actually capable of formulating logic or discovering facts for yourselves:
The CBS News Poll clearly shows an INCREASE of support (the direct opposite of your claim), from 32% in March '10 to 36% today:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010453-503544.html
The only thing I can find directly from Public Policy Polling says the opposite of your claim:
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/03/health-care-support-on-rise.html
Yes, there is a lot of mindless chatter ABOUT their polls, but I have quoted their ACTUAL WORDS, not some blogger's assertion of their meaning.
This page from Pew shows that the story isn't as black-and-white as you'd like to portray:
http://people-press.org/report/633/#health-care
The split in approval/disapproval has a lot to do with the party affiliation of the respondent.
Care to play again?
I listen to you and the same group of people attack everybody who responds on here with a comment that disagrees with you. Give me a freaking break! And it’s always the same thing with you all. If somebody doesn’t agree with you then they are a tea bagger or right winger. Wake up.
And to sit here and say that you know everything about the heath care bill and that people are more excepting of it is a farce. Unless you are a gypsy and have a crystal ball telling you about the future you don’t know anymore than the rest of us. Congress still doesn’t even know how much this thing will cost. They are still writing the bill. Small businesses don’t know how much it is going to cost and I know that because I work for one and I have talked to them about it. Nobody knows and to have MSNBC pull some poll from a group of people many Americans have never heard of just because it supports their beliefs is ridiculous. It doesn’t matter what side of the fence you are on you can find polls and articles that support your arguments.
And I am sick of our entire dysfunctional government not just the Democrats. And I’m a veteran too and I hate seeing Americans beat up everyday. This was the greatest nation in the world and to see this type of division amongst our people is sickening.
Fred-
Thanks for the compliment about my reputation...much appreciated.
Actually, the last polling done by CBS News on the subject was 5/2010...and indicates a drop in approval for Obamacare from 43% Favor to 36% this month.
Public Policy Polling showed 43% in favor of Obamacare in June...as I indicated, that number dropped to 40% in this months' poll.
With regard to Pew, their last poll on the issue was in April...with 40% approving of Obamacare. This month, the figure is 35%.
Love to play, Fred...just love it.
Feisty: I thought they'd moved on. Now if only we could get JoAnna Smith to move on with them, that would be good. But wait - maybe she is one of them! Could it be?
Hey Cathy:
Don't doubt for a minute that JoAnna's not part of the 'pack' of little doggies!
Toss her a snausage or two - but don't let your fingers get anywhere near her! She bites and is not current on her rabies vaccination! lol
MB
What plant are you on? The republicans brought nothing to the table, they were invited to do so but didn't. It makes me ashamed to be a republican! Didn’t vote for the in 08, but if the republican in the house and the senate keep saying no to common sense legislation, then I’m voting democratic; because at least they are trying to do some good.
MB-
The point was that it all depends on when you decide to document your data, who you choose to ask the questions, and what questions are asked. But, of course, you're dense to the point of having a gravitational field and chose to blow sunshine up your own ass rather than look at the big picture.
When you lemmings play your "poll games," you like to use selective time frames to "prove" your point. Everything is going to fluctuate, and the big picture is what matters. Context and the complete story matters--everyone knows that, unless you've been under a rock during the USDA/Sherrod fiasco and Brietbart's dishonesty.
You sound like those idiotic pundits that use the Dow from one day to the next to either claim "huge gains" or predict "double dip recession." The big picture--one that doesn't lend itself to simpletons and their bumper sticker mentality--tells a far more nuanced story that is closer to the truth.
As such, you took only the specific data points that supported your preconceived notion, whereas I took the entire polling data available from CBS and showed you wrong -as I stated...because even in the inbred township where you obviously live, the current 36% is greater than 32%, an indication that over the long term, support is going up.
Additionally, I doubt that you made such a big deal back in May that support had increased per the CBS poll, another fact you conveniently glossed over.
The rest of your crap is just your unfounded assertions. You provided no links, whereas I provided several that directly countered your claims. Since everyone knows that the new breed of Republican is only a do-nothing liar, you'll have to prive SOMETHING to support your claim. And not just a snippet of someone's blog.
I'm sure it was just oversight on your part that you ignored the rest of your intellectual disaster, choosing instead to crow about a half-truth on a single point of the CBS poll, so your smugness has all of the validity of bragging about going an entire day without wetting your own pants.
On a final note about you imps and your "polls:" The only reason that people like you keep repeating them is because groupthink runs rampant among the lower life forms of this planet. You bleat, "Hey look. Everybody else is doing it!" and expect other sheep to fall right in line.
The polls only determine the effectiveness of a brainwashing session. I had the misfortune of having a pollster call my house a few months ago regarding ObamaCare. The first question was: "Do you agree with the President's health care reform as it is, or do you want it voted down because it crafted through deals made behind closed doors?" It was nothing more than trying to determine if the latest right-wing nutter talking point was having the desired effect.
I told them I was a Republican that loved it just the way it was.
People like you only hate the health care reform because it's what you're told to do, akin to getting people in the lowest 75% of the income bracket to keep voting for tax breaks and shelters for millionaires. You merely blab what you're told, you do it on cue, and you don't stop regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Good luck going through life with the symptoms of a lobotomy.
I can't find the quote exactly, but when President Obama decided to go for healthcare reform, he told I believe Speaker Pelosi, that it was going to be tough going and that he would most likely take a huge dip in his poll numbers. And he was exactly right. It did happen.
I remember practically every single GOP pundit on tv being against health care reform last year. It's when I tuned them out for good. They haven't got a single positive idea for the American people. Not one.
This bears repeating -
ThinkProgress: The House Republican leadership is urging its members to vote against a bill that would aid 9/11 responders suffering from health problems. The GOP policy statement complains that the aid program, which will be paid for by closing “a tax loophole on foreign companies with U.S. subsidiaries,” “creates a massive new entitlement program.”
Excellent analysis Pat!
Just when you thought the GEENOPEE couldn't stoop any lower... damn if they don't surprise me!
The right-wing nut jobs are keeping quiet this morning. it's a joy not to have to read through their garbage. They are most probably at the pharmacy getting their free prescriptions.
You can't get any lower than a Republican,,,it's not humanly possible,,when you reach the republican standard the only way out is up and republicans wouldn't go in that direction even with the help of a GPS.
Hey Pat - excellent idea to keep hammering home the point about the dopes of nope calling the bill to aid 9/11 responders another entitlement program like it's something evil. Remember when they revered the 9/11 responders? Shows how fickle their loyalties are when they now want to wee wee up these fine people who risked their lives on 9/11 to help their fellow citizens.
I hope the Democrats pick up on this and hammer it home everyday on every news outlet, especially the Fox Noose channel - the official propaganda channel of the KKK. Wouldn't it be great if Tuttie Frutti Guiliani came out against the 9/11 responders and publicly backed this pathetic attempt to stop this well deserved "entitlement" program for 9/11 responders?
Pat you should know by now that the tea bagging prancing pansies will stoop to any low to get elected, this should come as no surprise since the 9/11 responders already responded and now the dopes of nope have no further use for them since they come from a Blue State.
Lakers-Celtics NBA Finals 2011! Can You Dig It?
Right you are Pat.
He said this would be a long haul and that it was a Work in Process. He has delivered on his promise to the American people. Too bad that the republicans still will not give him any acknowledgement on this. I want to see them try and repeal this now. OOOPPPPS, did I hear another talking point fall???
PS: Sarah Palins numbers are out and they are not good. Looks like "Drill Baby Drill" may soon be "Burn Baby Burn", just a thought.
But US Navy say it isn't so!!!!
It seems to me her numbers have always been low. I just try to figure out what people see in her. Oh I know she's so full of BS.
Pat
I couldn't agree with you more!!!!
paloins no,s are not important but the presidents are and most poles show him still dropping,
Senor Carlyss Man,
Que? Yo no comprendo amigo.
Paz
Hell, Pat, it's worse than you think.
First, right wingers make the assumption that any lack of support for ObamaCare is based solely on their delusional yapping about "socialism," "anti-chicken-barter currency," and "death panels," neglecting the possibility that some people may not like it because it doesn't go far enough....but are still willing to take this as a first step.
Then their delusion has a name, and it's Senator Chuck Grassley. Here is a video of him TAKING CREDIT for parts of the same ObamaCare reform that he railed against. (It's the first video on the list, and his "award" from Olberman starts at 2:08.):
http://jdeeth.blogspot.com/2010/04/grassley-worst-person-in-world.html
You can't make this stuff up.
What??!! How can this be? Oh yeah, now I remember. Once people start to see what is actually IN the legislation (as opposed to what Fox and Company has been SAYING is in the bill), the popularity is growing. Now, maybe the GOP can manage to find a leader that actually CARES about this country and can come to the table with an IDEA to make things better rather than simply saying NO to EVERYTHING...
I have visiting nurses coming to my home and they have voiced their opinions of the Health Reform Bill. They can't wait for most of it to take affect. One in particular said that her 21 and 23 year old daughters were dropped from her insurance and can''t wait for the new Health Care Reform to kick in in September when both of her daughters will be covered on her policy till their both 26. I believe a larger number than the poll shows want and like this bill but yet their are still many that want the Public Option.
I guess that just about raps it up (contradicts and defies) those saying the majority of people feel the HCR Bill was jammed down their throats and that they oppose the same with a fervor that would make the walls rattle.
The repugnant ones are going to be all wet from them wee weeing into the headwinds of growing public support for health care reform. Looks like their little tempest in a teapot over health care reform has run it's course and now people are seeing it in a new positive light.
The Democrats need to start hammering on the tea bagging dopes of nope for wanting to kill Medicare, separate the old clueless geezers from the dopes of nope and their expectations of gains in Congress will turn into losses. Plenty of historical facts to show how the repugnant ones have tried to kill Medicare ever since it was passed, time to break out the old video and scare the old geezers straight back to the Democratic Party who created Medicare and Social Security while the repugnant ones have tried ever since they were created to eliminate them.
If the repugnant ones want to attack the base of loyal women supporters of the Democrats then the Democrats need to go after the base of old geezers who support the dopes of nope. Guess we need some Grizzled Geezers in our party to attract even more Grizzled Geezers to our cause of protecting their Social Security and Medicare.
Grizzled Geezers for Democrats!
This is exactly what I expected. When people start benefitting and their grannies aren't dying they eventually come to their senses. People are starting to come to the realization that they were scammed by republicans like Grassley and Bonehead.
There will be No TownHall or shall i say "Screaming Contest" meeting's this August, in regards to HCR.
As voter's become increasingly aware of New benifits from HCR being implemented, Democrats should Hammer Home, just who it was that helped them achieve these benefits.
The RightWingTalibanBibleThumpingTeaPartiers had No Helping Hand in getting this done & AMERICAN VOTER'S SHOULD BE REMINDED WEEKLY, IF NOT DAILY.
wanna' bet some good money that Bobby Jindal gets in front of a camera and takes credit for HCR? If not him, one of them will - somewhere, because by golly - there doesn't seem to be any political cost to the Repeal and Repent gang. They are against all Democratic Legislation - right up to the point that they are FOR it, if it's politically expedient to be so. They seem to be a very 'fluid' group - going wherever the dead fish water takes them, as it were.
Your right Clara, I'm anxious to see how they try to take credit for HCR, but there's no doubt they will.
Well heck yeah! Just like they stood out there handin' out them stimulus check after votin' agin 'em.
Ya know ever one of these hippie-crits got a stimulus bone in ther paychecks and ya know ever one of 'em KEPT THE MONEY, Honey.
Hippie-crits
PEACE & LOVE
But, let's keep pushing for a public option as HCR is implemeted. More needs to be done to rein in those self-serving money hungry private insurance firms who cancel health care benefits on people needing major care but who were short "one penny" on their last required premium payment.
Completely agree CA, I hear a lot of ppl complain that the HCR doesnt do anything for anyone, but it seriously does something more than what we had. It's a stepping stone in the right direction and we can't just let it be another 50 years before we take another giant leap.
CA, I thought the most important proposal that ended up being dropped (drowned out during the Death Panels hysteria) was the idea of health care coops, which would be to health insurance what credit unions are to the banking industry. Local, non-profit, service oriented. They would be more stable than a government run single payer system because the government system would change the rules with every change in administration. Local democratic control by members would be vastly better than a top down government bureaucracy. And obviously better than for profit insurance because nobody in a health care coop would get richer by denying claims.
What, no "Death Panels" for grandma? Last summer, no Repub ever mentioned Grandpa in relation to the "Death Panels?...Guess grandma was left to languish in the "big government funded" nursing home alone!
Where is the Barracuda, Palin? She should have lots to say about this!
That poll number will be figured into the RCP average, which will go up. Before this "watershed" poll the numbers are;
38.3 favor 50.5 against
So the "against"will drop below 50%...What are the numbers for UNDERSTANDING the law? My guess is 5% understand (this includes congress, I hope) 95% know 5 bullet points out of 2,000 pages...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
We won't really know how people feel until the law is in place, and they know how it affects their personal bottom lines...
An accurate poll is one that supports my position
A meaningless poll is one that disputes it....
I hope you are speaking for yourself. You are certainly not speaking for me. I've never disputed any poll result simply because public opinion didn't conform to my own. Never.
I have, however, disputed the wisdom of public opinion, which sometimes turns out to be lacking. For instance, back in the '50s when an overwhelming majority of the public was opposed to desegration.
As for this health care poll, I don't believe that it is more accurate than polls that show less public support. I do, believe, however, that it does show the fraudulence of Republican and Tea Party claims that the health care legislation was some sort of tyranny just because public opinion was against it.
I was reading an article in the New Yorker magazine last night, about end of life issues, and came across a reference to the fact the provision to pay for a conversation between doctors and terminal patients about what steps to take at the end of life, a conversation the article makes clear is crucial, was dropped from the health care bill due to the "death panel" connotations.
I thought, "May Sarah Palin burn in H-e-double hockey sticks for that one."
And that's because everyone's concerned about media perception, even if it is a lie. I hate to bring up Goebbels, but I will.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - JG
Whether it's based on truth, half-truths, or outright lies, anything repeated over and over again will be cemented in the mind of the general public.
That reminds me of W saying that you have to keep repeating something until people believe it.
Long before any provision in the Health care bill, I had a talk with my doctor about a living will. I took it home read it through with my family around me and made it clear to all of them what I wished to be done when I could no longer speak for myself. If the doctor feels there is nothing more the medical profession can do to keep me alive than take me off the tubes that are keeping me alive. This was a relief for both myself and my family knowing there was a plan in place. We should all have one at home and one with our doctor. It says that my doctor will fight for my llife till he can do no more. How can that be called a death panel when it is my doctor, myself and my family calling the shots? Shame on the Republicans and most of all Sara Palin for putting that crap out there to frighten Senior Citizens!
Dangerfield,
I don't believe that I've seen any Kaiser data previously included as a component of the RCP average, probably won't see it there this time either.
Pollster.com includes Kaiser's polling in their average for Favor/Oppose numbers for President Obama's health care plan.
I stand corrected...
Well, well, well . . . a little reality breaking through the corporate media spin . . . quick, somebody come up with a distraction!
lol
There is a bear in the woods.
(Reagan ad joke, which will most likely fall on its face.)
We'll see how popular this offal is in November.
Gee:
I was waiting to hear on this thread from some of those who need to validate their personal dislike for Obama something to the effect - but just wait, wait until the Bill is fully implemented and how people will see they can no longer go to their same doctor, or how their grandma will be placed on an iceberg and shoved out to sea, or how everyone's insurance will be canceled, or how people's health care premiums will triple, or how all illegal immigrants will now get free health care, etc. You know that now that the HCR Reform Bill is being looked upon more favorably these folks can no longer rely on this argumement that the majority of people hate this legilsation and want to repeal the same. So now they will need a new set of criticisms to prove Obama is a pinko socialist commie or the devil incarnate.
Fact is, and although I'm sure the origiinal HCR Bill will need some adjusting to meet future challenges, this piece of legilsation is going to go down in U.S. history as one of the greatest pieces of legislation ever passed, and it was accomplished under Obama.
Ca,
I'd probably say that it's a little early to determine whether it's going to be one of the greatest pieces of legislation ever, or even that it's a viable piece of legislation, but I'll certainly agree that you have a right to your prognostication.
Living in L.A:
Thanks for your approval of my right of prognostication Living, and I'll repeat, this piece of legislation will go down as one of the greatest pieces of legislation in U.S. history.
Because were all going to end up under that awesome gov't health care? And because its one more huge step towards us becoming Socialists?
Great is a word....but not for this piece of crap the progressives shoved down our throats.
I see your still using the Fox talking points Larry, shoved down our throats and socialists, do come up with something new Larry it's just funny when all you've got is the same old Fox lies. It just shows you have nothing to backup your lies. The majority isn't buying your nonsense anymore.
The poll you listed is a very misleading.
If you actually follow the poll, the responses have about 77% say the law should be repealed. That result is very much more clear than their attempt to sway the "favorable/unfavorable" stat. This so favorable poll still says 77% of people want the law repealed. That is not spin.
You can dream that the "benefits" will win over more people, but then again, the MASSIVE costs will turn more people against this horrible law.
Sorry Dem's, this law should never have been.
That's not spin becuase spin starts with real information and then twists it to support a position. Your comment starts with a false statement.
"...about 77% say the law should be repealed." Where did you get that? I just read the poll it is not there. Please provide a link.
A Voice is lying Charles that is what teabagger republicans do, if the poll doesn't support their view they make one up that does. The only link he can give you is the lies he heard on Fox and from Limbaugh.
This is what teabagger republicans do folks, they make crap up it's all they got left.
Political actives make the most noise and from that ruckus they assume that everyone agrees with their often radical views. But I think the GOP and its ancillary fringe idiots are in for a tremendous shock come this November. My conclusion is drawn from right at fifty years of closely watching US politics. Not once in that time has the electorate chosen a fanatic or radical to hold public office ~ and there have been a lot of them on ballots during that half century. Ultimately voters will demand of challengers something of substance. The mere fact that conservatives do not like incumbent policies or actions will not suffice for the swing voters who will decide the election. I firmly believe this massive "cleansing" the GOP hopes for will fail to materialize. I have been wrong before and may be this time, but my guess is as good as anyone else's and so far my record has been well above .500.
Interesting. Most polls show the health care legislation to be extremely unpopular - right from the beginning and continuing on. My hunch is that this will turn out to be one of the largest legislative fiascos in our nation's history.
Jim: Your a national hero all in your own mind. The polls are dropping for the democrats as fast as they are dropping for Obama. You do realize the writer of the article works for NBC the most liberal news media in the nation. Can anyone of you tell me how paying higher premiums, more taxes for less service is going to please the middle class. You know that class of people who are the swing votes. The same class who pays the taxes. They still are finding hidden clauses in this massive goverment takeover everysday. "This bill will not fund abortions". Ooops 2 states already spending federal dollars on elective abortion. Obama got on national TV and swore that this bill would not do that. He's an out-right liar. The dems are going to takea bath in November.
Jim, you are incorrect. Part of this misconception arose from several state laws that seemed to allow this. The white house said no way. They will not pay for any aboration that is not because of rape, incest or puts the mothers life at risk. Period. Presient Obama did not lie, this was shot down as soon as Pa and MI brought it up.
Search it, it is on the web.
Your don't actually expect Jim to do his own search do you US Navy? His research pertains solely to Fox and Limbaugh.
Our company health insurance renews every July. Up 10% again this year, always double digits. What I don't understand is why the law did not allow for any size company to join a large national group - say association of manufacturers or trial lawyers association or whatever. As it is, our experience rate is based on a small number of aging employees.
I suspect it was the insurance companies that fought hard to nix this. But if so why? Larger groups would mean spreading the risk more so they should still be OK
Does anyone know why this was not part of the bill?
Richard Haydn
Dennis: Here you go...... www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp
Jim,
Did you actually read the link … It starts off saying “Mostly False”?
You need to pay attention to the example near the bottom of the article.
Dennis,
I did read it. If you make over $250K as a single person or $500K if married IN PROFIT, the amount over that threshold will be taxed as an investment transaction, not as a "Sales Tax". The original statement holds true. This is not a sales tax. If you make $250K in profit off the sale of your house...say...$300K, you would be charged 3.8% of the $50K or a total of $1,900. Wow. That's a HUGE tax! Give me a break.
If you're go to argue semantics, at least do it with some honest representation.
Kitt,
So it only affects the rich ... those making over 250K profit in a year.
I sure hate to see those rich people pay all those darn taxes.
Well this appears to be twisted polling. They tout that there was a "special focus" on Seniors. I suppose that might have been a pre-disposed or selective polling to get the numbers they were looking for.
The DemocRats say they won't lose the house. Do you believe anything a DemocRat says?
It is time that people start using their own common sense instead of listening to the liberal press that was so infatuated by this half black politician from Chicago. There is a feeling growing in this Republic that this administration is not good for the welfare of the majority of the people. Come Nov. 2, 2010 the country will find out which way the Republic will go, farther left of back to the right? Till then we the people will continue to voice our opinions on this socialist administration agenda and let the people who vote decided the future of our Republic. This president does not represent the interest of my state or many other states. The only interest this president represents is his huge ego. History will show Obama was the first half black politician elected president but history will also show he was too inexperience and naive to govern this great Republic.
Anative Texan
I'm curious why you found it relevant to mention President Obama being half black in your tirade?
Care to elaborate?
Or should I stick with my assumption that you have racial issues?
Feisty,
The Anemic Texan has exposed his/her racist bent, Hey Jim with the prison # did you see this!!!!
Here is one of yours.
No ideas, just more fear and hate. Man it must really smell terrible at Republican Meetings with all that Fear, Hate and Corruption in the air. PEW.
I find it interesting that the President was referred to as 'half-black'. Does that mean that the other half is OK???
"half black" Do you hate black people?
Dennis: You say the tax does not happen for several years. Does that make it better? "The health care bill will not raise taxes". "Letting the Bush tax cuts expire will not raise your taxes". "I will not raise taxes". BS
Jim;
Repeat... Unless you have a 'cadillac healthcare plan' you will see an increase on ZERO in new taxes!
It affects less than 10% of the country - you know... you might try reading the information (link) I provided instead of b!tching of things you have NO knowledge of!
Ignorance is NOT always BLISS!
Jim, (thanks Feisty)
Letting the Bush tax cuts expire is not a tax increase by President Obama. Actually he only wants to let them expire for those making over $250k – so will the Republicans go along with this – as usual – NO !
You should also note that taxes on your company provided health care insurance is not considered a “payroll tax” which the President said he would not increase.
Hey Fesity,
Why should Jimbo read (or think for that matter), all he has to do is cut and paste the talking point of the day.
I swear Retired... for the lies and bogus chain e-mails are flourishing these days around here @ FR!
Don't you think it says a lot about the right wing nuts when NOT a ONE of them calls out BS when they read it?
Best to keep the LIE going - like I said honesty is not a high priority for the right wingers! :0(
It makes me sad because I think some of them really mean well but just do not know any better, they are listening to the wrong people who are (I'm afraid) manipulating them to fit their own agenda, what ever that is.
Fiesty-US Navy
Hello. I do not mind having someone make certain points but making half points is strictly BS. Now a little sobering fact. Oh bright comrades did you know that ATT pays 2.1 billion dollars a year in health care insurance for their employees? These are not the Cadillac plans. ATT by paying the $3000.00 fine for each employee under the current health care plan will save $400 MILLION dollars a year. So in essence all companies that can realize this cost saving will do so. Dear comrades you will have your single payer health plan at the cost of the best medicine in the world. Lenin would be proud of you.
Oh look, you're back with the same claim that you hoisted a few days ago. So I'll ask you the same question you didn't answer then.
If it's cheaper for ATT to pay a $3000 fine and save $400M/yr, what's stopped them from saving the entire $2.1B all these years by dropping it entirely? What's been stopping every company from dropping their health insurance, since it's so much in their best interest? HCR makes it LESS desirable for them to drop their insurance, so the incentive must have been very great for them to do so. Why haven't they?
afloatinasea--That's what I thought you'd say.