No, Haley and Bobby have no idea how to stop playing politics with this.

Red:

Maybe now the clean up effort will be in earnest and Bobby Jindal – Haley Barbour and the rest of the clowns will QUIT playing politics and START doing what's right for the constituents who elected them!

Not much chance of that happening. And it appears that the sand berms Jindal was hyping on the Corporate News Network are almost totally useless. They're washing away faster than they can be built, and the scientists in La. are concerned that they are doing more damage than good. Those concerns were the reason the federal government didn't instantly agree when Jindal thoughtlessly demanded they be built, ignoring the scientists' concerns. But like most Republicans, Jindal holds science in contempt -- accept when it produces technology that his corporate clients can make money off of.

Speaking of technology, the success of the well capping operation shows that BP has some fine engineers. It's BP's management that leave something to be desired. I''m having trouble deciding which was more despicable: their corner cutting on safety to make more money that led to the Gulf oil well blowout, or their pushing for the release of the terrorist who brought down a jet and killed hundreds of people over Lockerbee Scotland -- a dirty deed that was also committed to make money.

Thanks for the info Houston!

I hadn't heard that! As for BP... they should be the poster child for Corporate Greed & Blood Money!

If you really want to get pi$$ed at what these corporations are doing to this county & planet you need to watch the documentary 'Gasland' about natural gas drilling here in the states! It's an eye opener!

It's funny...Jindal was raising so much hell about how much the administration sucked concerning his world saving sand burms around LA and the ones that he managed to get built were eroded in a couple of weeks to the point of being completely useless at stopping even a small ocean wave, much less a wave capped with oil.

I would imagine that the stability of the man made burms were one of the questions those evil, tree-hugging, socialist manifesto spreading scientists were wondering about when they said we should wait and study the impact of these burms because it might be just as bad as the oil.

Either way, Jindal's big idea that he insisted on having put into play; the idea that the socialist, eco-conspiratorial Obama admin. were blocking(!) was a bomb. I'll give him an 'A' for trying to do something but it stops there. The failure wouldn't be such a big deal if he hadn't been such a frickin cry baby about it...

Houston,

Good points. I do not care a whole for Jindal or Barbour. I am sure they will complain that President Obama took too long, etc. Why let the fact that everybody was in uncharted waters on this one since we never had a situation quite like this one. Now, they have learned how to address this issue, where the problems came from (greed, cutting corners, lax regulations, faulty equipment, politics, and the list goes on) lets hope this does not happen again. Keeping my fingers crossed on the stoppage.

It was great to see the spill closed and now that Feingold is helping with claims and we start cleaning up things will improve. It is a long term effort with the hopeful end being restoration of the gulf to address the damages the oil companies have done over decades. We as a country need to be smart and not waste this chance to do things right. This should not be political except to the fact that everyone has been lulled into a sense of complacency by all the big corporations.

CA's dolphins swimming in automotive anti-freeze and paint thinner. Who moved Ron's cheese?

BP has sprayed and pumped over 1.8 million gallons of inexpensive dispersant in the Gulf. Their dispersant is Corexit 9527 and Corexit 9500. Although the formulas are proprietary, the safety data sheets reveal 9527 is composed with ethylene glycol monobutyl ether and 9500 with petroleum distillates and acetone. Ethylene glycol is also known as automotive anti-freeze and petroleum distillates are common paint thinners, acetone is a nasty paint thinner and, or nail polish remover.

Corexit is similarly to 8-10 more toxic than other dispersants. Dispersit (a competitive product) is 100% effective - 9527 is 64% and 9500 is 55% effective. Corexit is 4 times more toxic than gulf oil. Corexit has been banned in the UK since 1998.

On May 19, 2010, the EPA gave BP 24 hours to stop using Corexit and find another dispersant. BP said - No we like Corexit. (By the way, ExxonMobile and BP are associated with Nalco Holding Company, the maker of Corexit).

CA writes previously about dolphins on their sides, flipper in the air, dying. I was speechlessly sad. But I was also angry in that while the oil in the water may be a negligent accident, the Corexit in the water is intentional. I don't know, but it seems to me that as intelligent and mobile as dolphins are, they could maybe avoid thick oil on the surface, they obviously cannot get away from BP's Corexit.

The Europeans are way ahead of us. The have robust fleets of high tech Oil Response vessels that make BP's use of a make-shift fleet of modified shrimp boats and barge skimmers laughable, if wasn't so tragic.

Within 3 days of the spill, the Dutch offered a fleet with experienced crews, enough to handle a spill worse than the one in our Gulf. No Charge. Norway offered 1/3 of their resources. The French offered a fleet Ecoceane skimmers. Over days then weeks then months, 13 governments, then 17 governments, now over 30 have offered. On and on. The world knows how to handle this.

WHY DID WE NOT USE THESE RESOURCES THAT WOULD HAVE SAVED THE GULF WILDLIFE AND COAST?

Money? No. BP was on the hook. Besides, the Dutch Government was free. BP was all for that.

Jones Act? Partly, but the big reason:

EPA

The EPA requires that any water put back into the ocean cannot contain more than 15 parts per million of oil. The world cannot fathom this level of stupidity. Their skimmers take in incredible amounts of oily water (each Dutch skimmer takes in 400 metric tons per hour) processes the oil out and releases the water back into the body of water. But if it is not 99.99985% pure - the EPA says you are polluting. (What about the 1.85 million gallons of Corexit ant-freeze and lacquer thinner?) Insanity?

As of yesterday, the effort had collected 32.9 million gallons of "oily water" to date. Our skimmers are collecting oily water and transporting it away. According to Admiral Thadd Allen that yields 10%-15% oil. In other words, 85%-90% of our efforts are removing gulf water and transporting it. The world offers, waits and wonders in amazement at this stupidity.

Ron wrote about A Whale and the new hopes a week or so ago. A Whale wasn't invited, wasn't requested. It just came because it is the largest ever built and would attract media attention. A Whale has spent a couple of weeks "testing" and waits for approval as of yesterday. Funny thing, Shell offered the Nanuq, another super skimmer within days and it sat. A Florida company offered 3 Panamax skimmers that could collect more than the 6,800 vessels being used have collected to date - in less than 2 days.

Anyway, good news. Sounds like the EPA may be letting up a little. The Dutch have been allowed to fly some of their parts and equipment to us. The Nanuq has sold some parts and equipment to BP. The French have sold some equipment to a Florida contractor, etc. Now all we have to do is fit all this on some other ships, hire union crews, train them, inspect the improvemnets, check their life preservers, count the fire extinguishers ........

The Oil Protection Act of 1990, Section 4201, gives President Obama full authority to monitor BP, direct BP, or remove BP. Obama is responsible for everything BP has done, and everything BP has not done.

But the sad reality is, there should be no slick the size of Kentucky, and very little if any oil on the Gulf beaches and in marshlands. The Oil Protection Act of 1990, Section 4201, gives President Obama full authority to monitor BP, direct BP, or remove BP. (The Dutch give a company 12 hours to convince them they can handle it) With regards to the containment and clean-up, Obama is responsible for everything BP has done and everything BP has not done.

Who moved Ron's cheeze? Not being afraid?

Who has the courage to accept who the real responsible party is.

Who does have that courage, Bob? BP drills a mile beneath the sea with a vaporware cleanup policy and no idea how to actually deal with such a disaster. Week after week we wait while they scratch their heads, put their engineers to work, and build from scratch equipment that should have been part of their spill response from the beginning. And fail. repeatedly.

But it's the US Government's fault.

John B,

So BP hands the government a used bingo card for their cleanup policy and the government says .... Looks good to me. Here's your approval!

So the government has their "Nobel" guy and committee sit and watch BP scratch their head and dig in their navel for an answer, day after day, week after week, month after month and lets the greatest environmental disaster in U.S. history get worse and worse and worse.

When the government has complete authority, control and responsibility and they do nothing, but a few photo ops and speeches. Yea, it's the governments fault.

Obama even said this mess was his responsibility in a national address!

What part of the above post did you not understand, or are avoiding to dispute?

Not at all, I'm contending that the ultimate responsibility for ALL of this is BPs. The government's responsibility is to hold BP responsible, watch them like hawks through everything right up to the last blob of oil and dead seagull, fine them for every penny that the law allows, and rework our obviously inadequate regulatory system so that it prevents a recurrance.

I understood all of it and I welcome the dispute. I take the position that blaming the government for the missteps of a private company is intellectually dishonest.

Thanks JohnB,

I agree the government's responsibilityis to hold BP absolutely accountable for everything and every bird feather.

My point is why allow BP to do all the damage they have done, irregardless of, if BP can/will pay for it.

The dead dolphins don't care who pays for picking up their carcasses.

As stated earlier, the world knows how to handle the spill. The world offered support, they have the high tech vessels, experienced crews and it would have been billed to BP, or as in the case of the Dutch - free. In that case, why not use the saved BP money on the people whose lives are so effected, what about the children as Pelosi would say.

BP has over 760 safety violations over the last 5 years. Their will-full negligence caused the death of 11 men and the gusher. Obama has said BP has lied. Holder is investigating corporate and criminal charges. In the first 80 days, nothing they have done has worked, or worked the way they said it would work.

And Obama trusts BP, leaves it up to BP. This BP is the best in the world? Why in the world, what reason is there to leave it to BP when the world offers help?

And I am being intellectually dishonest?

bob, maybe we're closer together on this than I first believed. Right now there isn't a lot for the government to do on plugging this well because there just isn't. The US government doesn't have the experts or the equipment to do that, so we wait on BP. As far as the claim that the government turned away foreign help, that's almost totally false http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/jun/16/george-lemieux/white-house-refused-international-oil-spill-aid-fl/ .

You're absolutely right that the regulatory system has failed the entire Gulf population and ecosystem. It's toothless to begin with and didn't even threaten to bite. That failure started a long time ago and has illustrated MMS incompetence to a ridiculous degree. Congress and the WH should take it up immediately.

Ron - I agree the temporary stop on the leak is great! After 8 hit and misses, finally the so called 'Captains of industry' finally did something right. I hope it holds. What I really hope is that it won't take them 8 tries to connect with and plug the pipe with cement and bottom kill it for good.

A new Democratic senator being sworn in this afternoon and we can finally get the Senate Dems to break the Republican filibuster of denying unemployment insurance.

Obama speaking forcefully, he's prepared to be held accountable for his policies! Good now get out there and fight for what you believe in! Sell it. Show the country who should have the title of the 'Great Communicator.'

Goldman Sachs getting hit by the SEC for a $550 million fine for cheating and lying. Good to see that the regulators are fighting for we the people for once.

Putting my usual pessimistic feelings aside, could we be turning a corner?

PLus its Friday. To quote the Black Eyed Peas - I got a feeling that tonights going to be a good, good night.

Yellowdog,

I think we may be turning the corner. We got two things off the table yesterday. Financial Reform is done and it appears we have stopped the bleeding of oil into the gulf. Financial Reform is going to be a true Work in Process though. The regulations need to be written. What President Obama has done is provided them with additional tools and some muscle to get it done. Now onlytimne will tell how this works out.

"BTW, when Boehner complains, it has to be good for 98% of Americans."

If that isn't the best line of the day it'll take a very, very good one to beat it.

Ron,

Didn't she mentioned something like that was 1 in 6 plants in her state that stimulus money created?

I agree with you if Boehner is complaining it's has to be a good bill.

Lest anyone forget, BP got that cap in place with the guidance of Steven Chu and the Department of Energy, who made sure it was done right. Whether it holds now is not up to the Obama administration, but they will be blamed if it doesn't.

I hope all the rightwingers are praying. i know I am.

TRR - I believe she said there were "16" new plants in her state all created by the stimulus money to provide batteries, for the new energy needed. I may be wrong, but I thought she said 16. As well as the auto industry pulling itself up from the grave.

Anna Molly, if it works it will be Obama's fault, if it doesn't work, it is, as always with Obama, George Bush's fault. Nothing is ever Obama's fault. Didn't you get the memo? Please try to keep up! :-)

Dasvet ~ Too funny. I'm liberal. Therefore, I never keep up. I live in the past with my patchouli, my love beads, and my mood ring. Today it's whatever color goes with the right wing's continuing refusal to take responsibility for the wars, for the economic mess we're in, for the oil spill, or for anything else. Red. Yes, that's it. I ALWAYS see red when I think about republicans.

Anna,

Great come back. I think Dasvet needs to brush up on English.

Haven't you noticed that Obama is the presidient at this particular time? Does it forever matter that Bush is not the president, and when does it become the present office holder's ballgame? Just askin'. btw, I misspelled a word, to give you something with which to respond. Just wanted to save you some time. :-)

Enjoyed your thoughts. The Boehner complaint line is perfect! Might make a good bumper sticker.

Jindal's barrier reef. Think back to when Jindal was complaining that he hadn't gotten approval to build his sand berms. The civil engineers and scientists felt it would not work and could cause more harm. Well, he huffed and puffed, and rightfully, it was approved because allowing Jindal to do something at a desperate time made some sense even if it failed. I think the cost was more than $1 million paid by BP. The Gulf did what any body of water does--it is washing away Jindal's barrier reef.

Last week NBC did an interview with an off shore oil worker about the temporary moratorium on exploratory wells. The man was understandably concerned that he could lose his job or have to move to find work. He insisted that drilling should continue despite the still-leaking well and the risk it could happen again. I sympathize with his thoughts and fears but his unwillingness to consider a temporary halt to ensure the equipment, blow out preventers, etc. was safe, his demand to continue drilling seemed selfish because he had no concern for the thousands of Gulf residents whose livelihoods were unrelated to oil and whose jobs would be impacted for months and possibly years.

Moratorium on DEEPWATER drilling, not all drilling. The compromise, which will put people back to work, should be to say, fine you want to drill in deepwater, start drilling two relief wells for each exploratory well already out there, that would be 66 rigs hard at work for the next year, and the gulf will be safer for it.

Vet ~ I think Dasvet needs to brush up on more than just English. All the humanities, really.

With emphasis on humanity.

The thing that I found most striking about the oil being stopped is the amount of time that's been wasted building potential solutions. Going forward these things need to be on hand AHEAD OF TIME as WEEKS have been lost dreaming them up, designing them, and building them. We would have been at this point in half, maybe 1/4 the time if the structures had just been ready to go. Top kill, junk shot, siphon, containment cap, top mount valve and whatever else I've missed just boomboomboom. Instead it's patently clear that this industry had no plans whatsoever to deal with an emergency.

It can't happen again.

What is amazing is Sen McConnell boasting about his ability to stop things that help the people and stop the bleeding. There has been great progress in so many ways that are laying the foundation for our future secure growth. I think the recovery would be further along if there were not such nastiness among those elected and by the MEDIA which has become so partisan. This is about our country. Let's come together.

Dasvet

President Obama on his interview with Chuck Todd said he would take 100% ownership for what he does during his term. He also said that he would not take the responsibility for issues that happened under administrations that proceeded him. I think this is fair and we (both dems and reps) should hold him to that. As a democrat I am going to hold him to his word. THese are hard times for many people and I agree in that we need to move on. I am not saying that we forget what has happened and how we got to where we are, but put it aside for now and see what we can do for all fellow Americans.

Cathy M. 647265

I thought that's what she said. It seems to me that the stimulus is working out great.

Anna Molly

Lest anyone even understand that Steve Chu is a physicist not an engineer. He may be a genius at trapping atoms with lasers and wonderful at writing papers on redshift dynamics, but when he was watching one of BP's early efforts, someone had to explain why oil was still leaking and what a baffle is.

Speaking of papers on redshift, why was he publishing that paper in February of this year? Is Secretary of Energy a part time job?

"Surely Republicans and Democrats alike can agree that stopping the leak is a good thing."

I wish that was true, but Republicans would probably prefer that the spill continue through the next election. The worst shape the economy and country are in, the better their chances of taking over some seats. Just trying to fillibuster and voting against anything that could help the economy or the president isn't good enough. The GOP is pure evil. The destruction of habitat, losses of jobs, and people's lives mean nothing to them as long as they can regain power to let Wall Street and the corporations have free reign again.

bob,

Something that you may not understand is that most physicists have to have some engineering training as they have to be able to set up their experiments, it is not just all playing with theories and lasers. Those laser experiments and the like take some pretty fine engineering skills to set up, so it is not at all close to the mark to say Steve Chu has no engineering skills!

Are the oil companies really so incompetent at preventing blowouts, stopping leaks, and cleaning up after themselves that the Secretary of Energy needs to be the expert on these topics? Why don't we expect more from people who extract poison out of areas that they lease from the American people for immense profits?

IR and Feisty: Glad to see you two holding down the fort. I hadn't planned to write today but it gets in your blood. Thank God I have a pulse and my blood is not just whirling around like Cheney's

I'm sure you all will join me in wishing the Great American, Richard Cheney, a speedy recovery from this latest ailment.

Ron - just goes to show that Karma really is a b!tch!

I'm still having a difficult time believing the Torturer in Chief actually has a heart!

Hope the 'Dick' has a back up generator...

I think Gibbs may have done the dems a favor by stating what we all know. It may have energized some of the dems.

I will send Chenney a box of batteries and a long extension cord.

Obama has been prez for almost two years and now owns the fight against Islamofacism. You would think that his groupies would now be all-aboard in the fight since their man is the Commander In Chief. But no, there are many that still view the Bush admin as a greater enemy than the animals that killed 3,000 people on 9/11. Very sad.

CU:

No problem. Here is hoping that Dick Cheney has a speedy recovery.

Hey Chuckey Doll Farley - nope not a chance I'll wish draft dodging torture queen Tricky Dick Cheney any wishes for a speedy recovery!

CU, It is almost 1 1/2 years, not 2. Wishful thinking on your part, I'm sure.

Dick Cheney’s new hart pump means he will no longer have a hart beat.

I didn’t think he had one before.

He'll be with us for a long time, I'm sure.

Cu F.

What you fail to understand is that the Bush/Cheney administration and the "animals that killed 3,000 people on 9/11" ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

No problem, Eric The 8th Grader- Maybe you can send some flowers to the funeral of the next Hamas or Hezbollah leader that gets blown to smithereens by the Israelis.

Of course I wish Cheney improved health. I wish no one illness or death.

As for your comment on Islamofascism, how can I be onboard with something that's imaginary to begin with? http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008093712/firing-back-ten-myths-about-national-security

@JohnB - Stop bringing facts to a fantasy.

@Cu F - What did he do so spectacular? (please use facts this time)

Well Hello CU Farley

yes we must wish Dick(richard) cheney a speedy recovers, the justice department is hoping he will be able to stand trail for war crimes, Old man Potter (Dick) Richard Cheney has been having this same heart problem for 20 years, believe me he is Old man Potter the meanest richest man in town and a heart problem will never stop him.

I have done my research and farley i know your ethnicity, you should not be ashamed of the fact your Irish!!!! be proud.

i realized yesterday that, you that have call upon the NAACP to say something about the New Black Panther party, are completely missing the main point of there resolution,

At no time ever has the NAACP had rallies where the black panther party Now or 40 years ago hs been there. period. the tea party at there rallies has tea party members that are doing what god would say is wrong. its NOT wrong the be critical, Mad, Pissed off at our government. i think liberals as well as concsertives can say over the last 30 years can say we were both pissed. but its wrong for a groups like NAACP and the Tea party to allow members to display racist signs, carring a monky doll on there sholders with a sign around the neck saying Obama!!! that wrong, and everybody knows it. Now is it me or in the past 2 years has this group gotten more bold as the weeks pass, at first it was good dicussion but now it out of control, and all the NAACP asked it for them to call out there members who are doing this to stop. Peroid. if the New black Panther party members were at NAACP rallys doing this they, the tea party has every right to call the NACCP out. Right!!!!. but sorry people this has not happened.

Chuckles just this once and one time only. Of course I would not wish a bad out come on Old Dick although I expect that he needs to take up his standing as an American and human being with St.Peter when they have that conversation that comes to us all eventually. I would however to caution him to check his warranty real close and make sure that it doesn't say B.P. on it. I'd hate to see him in the position of having to wait 84 Days for a fix when that sucker blows up. I don't think even old Dick can hold his breath that long.

Ron - when you harbour as much hatred in your body, that's what happens. Its no wonder that Vice President Cheney has had hear issues since he was 37.

Although I never agreed with VP Cheney on ANYTHING, and I do not agree with how he is filling the airwaves with hatred and vitroil through his daughter, I wish him the best and a speedy recovery.

I would, but he doesn't need me. After all, he has government-employee health care. Too bad that everyone else doesn't.

For a brief time, IR, I thought someone had stolen your identity. Whew, was I glad to see the last paragraphs.

It's one thing to read thoughts like that one at a time, but lumped together is frightful!

Anna, and Cheney will still have a specially designed healthcare program, when the rest of us are in line behind illegal aliens at the local obamacare kiosk in the local mall. This corrupt congress doesn't care about you or me, as evidenced by excepting themselves from the obamacare legislation. When congress has the same healthcare that I have, then maybe my mind would change on obamacare, but not until that time..

What an excellent point Anna Molly! Talk about a welfare recipient. I'm willing to bet his heart problems aren't genetic.

CU I only wish well those that contribute to making this world a better place. Dick has yet to do anything but take from everyone and everything else in this world. I hope the recovery is painful and slow. Sorry, he is the worst to come from the U.S. and our species.

Oh yea...It's CUF fluff again. I'll give you this, Fluff. You know how to make everyone here bounce. You put push the buttons and everyone flies in to make a strafing run. :)

As for Cheney, I would rather he stand trial but his death is fine by me. I'm an independent too, btw, so don't go beating up the liberals here. I don't care if you or anyone else here thinks I'm a 'whatever' for being fine with his death either. We're all human and sometimes we are just fine with someone kicking off. It's like they say about masturbation; 75% of the population does it and 25% of the population lie about it. If Cheney dies before he can be convicted of war crimes then good. He is a greedy, despicable piece of crap and help lead this country into the crapper that it is in currently.

The biggest laugh I get out of his medical situation is the fact that his new heart gear has removed his pulse. I kid you not. According to the medical experts I heard describing his new situation the device that now helps pump his blood effectively removes his pulse.

How apropos, eh? :-D

Pietro: You make an excellent point about how negative emotions can impact one's body. I have no love for Cheney, but I do not wish him ill. I guess my anger toward him is how he has allowed oil companies to fracture the earth's crust to get gas. I've watched "Gas Land" and it saddens me greatly.

Please keep trying, Dasvet, but you won't get me to disagree with you about Congress. That's only a reason to lift everyone up; it's not a reason to leave some behind. You should support an effort to get everyone the same health care Congress gets, instead of trying to prevent any improvements for those who are less fortunate. We needed a better bill, not a worse one.

And THAT pretty much sums up the differences between liberals and conservatives -- at least what passes for conservative today.

CU Farley

"I'm sure you all will join me in wishing the Great American, Richard Cheney, a speedy recovery from this latest ailment"

I wish the Richard Cheney that was our vice-president a swift and good recovery. Not sure about the one you are refering to as the "Great American", but yes- Godspeed to him as well.

M. Fisher,

I agree with you, however I would like to see him survive long enough to stand trial so that, once convicted, he dies in prison...Preferably in Guantanamo Bay. THAT would be poetic justice on top of Real Justice!

Honest, I was thinking the same thing for Obama with a trial for for trashing the constitution. Especially in light of the so-called threats on his life, the left is so fond of re-iterating.

Davset,

Show me one instance of President Obama trashing the Constitution, just one, I can list several by Bush and Co, starting with his illegal wiretapping.

Too many to list, Honest, look it up yourself.. You are so far up his rear, the truth would be met with your fingers in your ear. The one you mention, illegal wiretapping, is still going on.

No one asked you to list them all, Dasvet. Just a few would have been sufficient.

And yes, I'm extremely disappointed that the Patriot Act was reauthorized.

I believe it was American Hero, John McCain, that said an Obama administration would be a "second term of the Carter administration". This after Obama said that a McCain admin would be a third term of Bush.

There will be those that follow this post claiming that the Carter admin was just fine and dandy. That says a lot about where many of the people on this board are coming from politically...A Clue-Free Zone.

Jimmy Carter is the Right's favorite example of a one term President, happily ignoring George W.H Bush, Gerald Ford, and that ousted criminal, drum roll, official worst President in history, Richard W. Nixon. Personally, I would put George W. Bush at the bottom, because Nixon opened China to the West, but that's me, all pro-diplomatic ties Democrat.

Nixon resigned during his SECOND term...you could look it up...:)

The only 2 term democratic presidents since 1930 are FDR and President Bill Clinton...

Hey, CUF just because someone said it doesn't make it true. I know that's hard for you to swallow and why so many here disregard much of what you say.

Amy, Richard Nixon was a one-and-a-half term president. In their infinite wisdom, American voters re-elected him in an enormous landslide for a second term before he was forced to resign in disgrace.

Richard Nixon to me was one of the last centrist republican presidents. he was a Quaker, born poor and did a great job in forgin policy. he open open up talks with china and Russia to help end the Vietnam war, he pass SS benefits for dependent children over 18 who went to college (my older brothers and sisters were able to go and finish college because of it, in 1981 reagan took it away as well as the federal tudent loan prorgram. nixons problem was he did not trust his own people. yes he won his second term by a landslide but by then his fall to disgrace had already begun.

I hated Nixon with a vengeance...but in retrospect;

Ended the Viet Nam war

Created the EPA

Signed the "Clean air" act 1970

Expanded SS to include SSI (supplemental security income)

He would be attacked by today's right as a "SOCIALIST"

Ironic...

Nixon had to be one of the worst Quakers that has ever lived. And if Nixon was a two term president then by that standard FDR was a four term president. Elected once and re-elected thrice!

You could look it up....indeed.

How would we classify JFK's partial term in this discussion, and what does all of this make Sarah Palin?

dangerfield

Nixon was not a fan favorite in my house growing up but i will take his accomplishments over former president Bush any day. just think, reagan almost ruined what nixon did in the 70s with the russians,

Indeed, Dangerfield. Nixon would be considered a socialist! hahaa! I'm so loving the idiots of the extreme right and their stupidity with all of the "socialist this!" and "Nazi that!" when even Reagan would be considered a socialist by their current standards. What a joke!

Anna Molly

"How would we classify JFK's partial term in this discussion, and what does all of this make Sarah Palin?"

We would call the former a partial term. We would most likely call the latter a gratuitous non sequitur.

Anna Molly,

Palin would just be considered a fame and fortune chasing quitter with NO regard for actual politics...her husband did that part and like he did with her: he tried to screw Alaska too!

dangerfield

Franklin Roosevelt died during his third term. Last President to be allowed to run three times. You could look it up.

Amy B. Portland, ME

dangerfield

Franklin Roosevelt died during his third term. Last President to be allowed to run three times. You could look it up.

I won't be snarky in informing you that FDR passed away after being elected to a fourth term, and am sorry that you failed to check that fact.

If you two would read my stuff you both would have been better informed hours ago.

Paul, I guess they were not aware that you are the ONE person in the world that ACTUALLY does "know it all".

A true legend in your own mind!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No need to apologize for being right. And 9/11 was an inside job!

"And 9/11 was an inside job!"

I see you still haven't adjusted the antenna on your tin foil hat.

If I were to adjust the antenna on the tin foil hat, which I do not own or where, what better signal would I receive?

wear.......oops. Any other cliches you would like to make use of, "disgruntled", "cottage industry", "black helicopters"...........etc. You know, the ones that lend nothing informative to a discussion, but merely serve to attempt to trivialize any thoughtful consideration.

"If I were to adjust the antenna on the tin foil hat, which I do not own or where, what better signal would I receive?"

The reality based world might be a nice change for you, although you might have some difficulty handling it.

BTW, if you do not own your tin foil hat, have you ever considered the question of who actually does own it??

Just a thoughtful consideration.

Not very thoughtful, but it probably felt that way to you. Did you miss the part about my NOT OWNING or WEARING a tin foil hat?

And I'll ask again with regards to the hypothetical tin foil hat, what better signal would the adjustment make?

Charles and I had a 'thoughtful discussion' on the subject of the 9/11 investigation, maybe you should read up on the ground we covered and get back to the board when you can demonstrate that you know something relevant.

"Did you miss the part about my NOT OWNING or WEARING a tin foil hat?

Charles and I had a 'thoughtful discussion' on the subject of the 9/11 investigation"

Is Charles the one you think owns your tin foil hat with the faulty antenna, and sends you signals about how "9/11 was an inside job!"??

I'm officially bored with this now. Bye.

Charles Arlington Heights, Illinois

He didn't agree with me on the need for another investigation. But the discussion took place on an intelligence level you would do well to try to replicate.

I guess you are ineducable as to the existence, or lack there of, of the tin foil hat.

It is usually twelve year old girls that announce there boredom with things that they don't understand, welcome to their club, my little biotch.

"It is usually twelve year old girls that announce there (sic) boredom with things that they don't understand, welcome to their club, my little biotch."

What's with your obsession with 12 year old girls?? Be careful, child molestors don't do well in prison.

I take you are speaking from experience. How's it feel to be back on the outside?

"their club, my little biotch." I did get it right the second usage.

And if you were so bored, why'd you come back? My little biotch.

So, obviously, the best way to prevent fires is to get rid of the fire department?

Da Noid,

You obviously didn't read my post, or if you did, didn't understand. Maybe I'll dumb it down for you. What I said is that this bill will not prevent a financial crisis, because it is not doing anything new. The consumer protection provision in the bill is meant to help, but how can it if the SEC and Federal Reserve (the same ones who failed to regulate) can Veto and override the new consumer protection agency?

We already have a fire department, we should be improving it, not trying to create a whole new beauracracy that will make it harder for these fire departments to respond.

Sure Cult, it isn't everything I wanted. It is, on the other hand far better than what we had and a step in the right direction.

Horrible analogy. Regulation is supposed to be preventative, fire fighting is reactive. Try again.

John,

I guess I don't understand how it is far better? Let me give you an example;

Say I have a fence around my house to prevent people from getting in. I get robbed, so I put another fence behind it to reinforce the first fence. I get robbed again, so I'll just put up another fence behind that one. I'm sure you see where this is going.

We don't need new fences, we need to lock our darn doors!

The consumer protection Agency is just another layer of fence. The SEC and Federal Reserve were created to enforce regulations but they failed. We don't need another fence, we just don't need another Alan Greenspan.

Also, this new bill is creating 6 banks that control 60% of the financial systems more power. The government is saying, your too big to fail, so we're going to give you subsidies to lower borrowing limits. If you want one big national bank controlled by our government, then I suppose this bill would be a step in the right direction.

What started this crisis was the systematic elimination of FDR's banking regulations which prevented banking problems UNTIL Reagan started the elimination process. As soon as the first fire wall was removed, we had the savings and loan crisis while Reagan was still in office. The last fire wall departed when Clinton signed the repeal of Glass Stegall--the flood gates of greed and irresponsibility opened. Whether you want to believe it or not, it is the truth.

Cult, great post. What could we expect from the perpretators of the crisis in the financial sector, were given the task of writing the proposed solutions? The bill is just a further leg on the total governmental control, desired by the let in this country.

Cult, I'd classify it more as the deregulators taking the locks off the door and telling us it'll be OK because we can trust the burglars. Now that we've been burgled they come back to us and insist that we not put locks on the doors, not even cheap ones, because the burglars are smart people and they'll know better next time. We may not have gotten the best locks money can buy, but we have the best locks those who "know what's best for the economy" would allow us to have.

Obama will say we have installed a new, best lock in history.

The problem is, the burgler is the lock smith that installed the lock, and he has the master key.

Good Morning Retired…

Yes – Yesterday was a good day and for some reason this ole Irish blessing came to mind:

May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face.
And rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the hollow of His hand.

May you live as long as you want,
And never want as long as you live.

Always remember to forget
The things that made you sad.
But never forget to remember
The things that made you glad.

Always remember to forget
The friends that proved untrue.
But never forget to remember
Those that have stuck by you.

Have a wonderful weekend!

Feisty,

Ok if I copy this? My wife of 40 years is an Irish Redhead. Being of Italian blood my daughter is an Irish/Italian Redhead. She is going to be a heartbreak for somebody. Talk about strong willed and independent. You have a great weekend as well and lets hope next week is as good as this one was.

Be my guest Retired!

You must have had your hands full around your house with not one but two redheads! ;0)

LMAO,

I have not won a debate in 40 years. A little while back my wife and I were in San Diego at my daughters promotion to LtJG. We took her and a few of her Navy friends to dinner. Somewhere along the line we got to the question on how Patty and I stayed together for 40 years. I responded with "I always get the last word" the silence was over powering. Finally Sarah's friend asked the obvious as to what do I say. My response "YES DEAR". Have a great weekend.

LMAO Retired and Congrats to your daughter on her promotion!

Morning US Navy! Enjoyed your post.

Those complaining that the new bill may hinder credit doesn't hold much water for me. Credit has been hindered for over a year. Like big business hanging on to their profits instead of hiring (while expecting their employees to do two or three people's jobs), big banks make big profits and have not been lending. JP Morgan logged a multi-billion dollar profit again this past quarter--you'd think they'd loan out some of that to small business.

Feisty and Navy vet, please get a room. Your admiration for each other should be a private affair. It doesn't belong on newsvine, since it creates upchuck vibrations in many of us. Ever heard of private e-mail? :-)

Good Morning Folks, I am glad to see everyone is in fine shape today! Things sure seem to be looking up, I can only hope that this mood continues into November, but the Repubs will work to crash the party somehow!

I am hoping everyone has an Awesome Weekend and comes back ready for more of that Exciting Game, Whack-A-Troll on Monday, because for sure the Repubs are going to have built up a full head of steam by then...or in some cases, high pressure helium!

Dasvet,

Nothing wrong with having friends, you should try it sometimes.

False friends of america, like Obama? omg, not that one.

Dasvet,

I find President Obama to be a truer friend to America than YOU are, all you are doing is trying to bring him down instead of trying to help America out of it's mess!

I agree with you, somewhat HONEST. I am trying to end the headlong rush to a social dictatorship rule by Obama. I make no bones about it. I will be at the job for ever how long it takes. Did I misplace the commain the first sentence?

Davset,

Why were you not complaining when Bush was working so hard to turn this nation into an Oligarchic Dictatorship with the Rich making ALL of the decisions? President Obama is not turning this Nation into a dictatorship, he is working to restore it to the democratic principle based government that the Founding Fathers created in the first place. All he is doing is restoring some balance and trying to return us to the point where EVERYBODY can do well, not just the well to do!

Honest, Bush was not able to even try the dictatorship you whine about, at least the last two years of his term because of a hostile congress. Obama does not, maybe cannot, listen to anyone even remotely moderate due to his ego, when he goes behind closed doors to legislate. This, after promising a truly open administration. I did not like the Obamacare legislation, because we were told by Pelosi that we needed to pass the legislation so we can learn what is in it. I see us going to the mall and standing behind illegal aliens at the obamacare kiosk. The same thing is happening with the financial reform legislation, we will be enduring the results before we ever learn what is in it. Obama's books tell us exactly what Obama is, a socialist, in his own words, such as "I gravitated toward the communists when I was in college" statement. This man is not an american in thought or deed, if we are to read his own books, regardless of where he was born.

Strange, Dasvet, the quote "I graitated toward the communists when I was in college" doesn't bring up any Google hits. It doesn't appear as a quote in the results I had time that accuse him of being a communist. I hope you'll excuse my inability to read all of the opinions that he's a communist, but I find no admission of that. Not even an explanation or debunking of that statement. You'd expect that to be out there since Righties seem to think the media works overtime to make excuses for him. Link, please?

John, read his book.

Nashville,

Good post, happy to see you this AM. Our President with the help from Nancy and Harry has done an outstanding job so far. Yes, we do have a long way to go still, but maybe, just maybe we are turning the corner. This President has done more in 18 months than many do in a whole term (or two).

The pundits and those on the right are still going to throw shots and try to stop whatever his next agenda item will be. This is just the nature of the beast so to speak. I think the attitude of no and/or repeal is wearing thin. Many of the small business owners that I talk to day in and day out are starting to give President Obama thumbs up. By a large margin the little Mom and Pop shops I work with think the Financial Reform Bill has features that are going to help them and support the bill in general.

It should be interesting over the next few days to see if President Obama gets any bump from this. I am not sure he will (he should) just because it does not get into the media what the positives of the bill are. I see more negative articles (which state outright lies) than those that list the positives.

Good to see you too US Navy Disabled Vet . . . thanks of the kind words!

Nashville: What the media wants to do is to write the script. They want to direct the play. They want to make things happen, even though they may regret it when what they have directed badly affects the country and the citizens. But, you know, there's no glory in getting things done for them, they must always qualify and quantify and ask "Is it enough?". Geez, where the hell were they when Bush was in office? It's sad that we were taken down that dark debilitating road, in treasure, in our young people's death in war, in nearly breaking the country financially, but, hey, they want to cheer on the dopes of nope, the tea party, Palin, and anything else that gives them some excitement. I guess the President and all of his accomplishments are just not "exciting" enough. They want to bring out the warthogs and pigs in lipstick to accuse the President of crap, never speak out about the racism until finally the NAACP had had enough, and it's bad enough that Fox has a 24/7 Republican campaign going on over there, our own little Chis Matthews gets all excited over the same things, and nothing is never quite enough for Ed Schulz, and even Keith blasted President Obama last week, something of course the die-hard repubs never do to each other, but then again we do manage to have our own minds. But somewhere in the ever present talking head rhetoric it would sure be nice to hear "what a great accomplishment" or "this is monumental reform", these are things we don't hear enough of, and they are helping the dopes of nope have the stage. Just listen to Ron Christy talk, talk, talk, that's what they do, talk, talk, talk. No one has a chance to get a word in edgewise except the repubs and they are given carte blanche to yack on endlessly, never be corrected or called out as the liars they sometimes are.

That's why we get disheartened. This is our country, too, and to use a oft-quoted phrase of the right, we did take it back and we intend to keep it.

Thank god for this President.

And as an aside, I never wish anyone ill, so VP Cheney, my thoughts and prayers are with you for a speedy recovery. There is so much devastation in our lives now. Mental, moral, racial, physical. We try to help rather than hinder that situation.

What an awesome post Cathy M . . . I couldn't agree more.

I don't recall the name of the reublican or whether it was federal or state who wants to reduce the minimum wage to around $2.35 an hour. I'd suggest that man be paid $2.35 an hour for about year and then make that statement.

Cathy M. Great post. You've expressed what so many of us feel and have commented about.

The media creates the storyline and sells it to the public. Richard Holbrooke, special ambassador, explained the other night that Washington journalists have their own narrative and do little else except push it.

Jody,

I believe he's from CA - but can't remember his name either. The $2.35 an hour minimum wage would be a applied to servers, bartenders and such.

CATHY M.-647265

Nashville: What the media wants to do is to write the script. They want to direct the play. They want to make things happen, even though they may regret it when what they have directed badly affects the country and the citizens. But, you know, there's no glory in getting things done for them, they must always qualify and quantify and ask "Is it enough?".

What could be the difference between 2007, when Obama and the Democrats were running their Hope and Change campaign, and today, where the Democrats fall further and further from the grace of the media and the American people? What could be? Here's one! Obama didn't have a record of achievement back in 2007, just this fluffy Hopey and Changey method. The media loved it. Now Obama has something more tangible. A record. And it's not good. Not good at all.

So please, quit blaming the media. The same media that pumped this phony of man up in 2007.

JoAnna:

The President has accomplished more in the first 18 months than any of us could have imagined. He is doing a wonderful job.

I am not "blaming" the media - I am pointing out how they twist "the news" to fit their "narrative", not report things as they are actually happening.

I note that you cannot refute anything that I wrote . . . so you just gripe that I shouldn't gripe.

President Obama is a KICK A$$ President, and you know it.

That is why you are here all day every day trying to distract us from this obvious fact.

JoAnna - Like it or not you have to agree that Obama and the Democrats are getting things done. The legislation and I'll be the first to say is not as progressive or liberal as I would like but you can't deny their record.

As far as unemployment goes, yes we are still at high unemployment. The government has done what it could with the stimulus and tax credits to jump start the economy. He has done his part. Now it is up to the private sector to prove that they are up to the task. Will they start hiring or will they try to squeeze every last drop of sweat and toil out of the workforce they have?

It is also time for the more than 2 or 3 republican senators to help share the load with governing and not just once every blue moon. It is time for them and you to heed McCain's motto 'Country first'.

Fiesty and Jody, the guys last name is Emmer and I believe he is from somewhere in the midwest.

Thanks KMac! ;0)

Cathy M,

Great Post and very well put!

Jody,

Actually I would like to see those Senators or anybody else that says 'the people living on the Entitlement Programs have it easy' try to live like I did for 2 years while waiting for my SSI after they rebuilt my neck. After totally depleting any and all resources that I HAD owned, I ended up living in a homeless shelter, and from there to a Public Housing Project apartment, single room with the bathroom and shower down the hall. I lived on Foodstamps ONLY, I had NO cash income whatsoever, and I also had Medicaid. I lived in that apartment for two years just trying to scrape by, it was mere survival and existing rather than living really, yet that is what they expected of me, to be totally broke and destitute before I got my SSI after fighting for over 8 years for it, despite the fact that after they rebuilt my neck all of my doctors said I would never be able to work and the Soc Sec Doctors saying the same. Living on even some actual cash income, say $20 a week would have been awesome at that point.

Those that are so very detached enough to think that you can actually live on such a miniscule wage, let alone support a family, should really give it a try, but they have their huge bank accounts and never want for anything but MORE and expect us to get by on Less!

The Repub who wants to lower the minimum wage to $2.31/hour I believe is from Utah, or some midwest state.

B Honest: Thanks for the shoutout, as well as Jody and Nash.

But you sure said a mouthful:

"Actually I would like to see those Senators or anybody else that says 'the people living on the Entitlement Programs have it easy' try to live like I did for 2 years while waiting for my SSI after they rebuilt my neck. After totally depleting any and all resources that I HAD owned, I ended up living in a homeless shelter, and from there to a Public Housing Project apartment, single room with the bathroom and shower down the hall. I lived on Foodstamps ONLY, I had NO cash income whatsoever, and I also had Medicaid. I lived in that apartment for two years just trying to scrape by, it was mere survival and existing rather than living really, yet that is what they expected of me, to be totally broke and destitute before I got my SSI after fighting for over 8 years for it, despite the fact that after they rebuilt my neck all of my doctors said I would never be able to work and the Soc Sec Doctors saying the same. Living on even some actual cash income, say $20 a week would have been awesome at that point.

Those that are so very detached enough to think that you can actually live on such a miniscule wage, let alone support a family, should really give it a try, but they have their huge bank accounts and never want for anything but MORE and expect us to get by on Less!"

I think what gets me most is the mean-spiritedness of the right and far-right. They're just plain nasty. And the leadership, most of whom were born with silver spoons in their mouths, have never lived or struggled with normal lives. And the super rich, squawk about paying taxes? Even estate taxes? In the past they have not even been required to pay until the estate is greater than $5M. But the rest of us can eat cake or dirt or take lower paying jobs, or decreases in minimum wages? It makes me sick.

Both my husband and I have worked all our lives. I've raised 4 kids who went on to college. We've squeaked by. My husband started working when he was 14, and I started working when I was 16, still in school in rural Ohio. Then finished school, but could not do college. Again, we have worked all our lives, he in retail and then in steel mills and then as a pharmaceutical tech. I have worked mostly all my adult life as a legal sec/paralegal. I am now 67 and on social security. He is 62, was downsized last year and was on unemployment. He is too young to retire and too old to get hired. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer 4 years ago, had surgery and then this year it raised its ugly head again, so radiation for 6 weeks. All this on unemployment and Social Security. We are still paying off our home. I wonder how many more bankruptcies will come of their blocking the unemployment bill? How much worse for the economy the republican's actions are. Anyway, try getting hired at 62 with a history of cancer. We think that was why he was downsized to begin with by a "great - lol" corporation, because he had a history of cancer and the insurance costs were too great. Thanks corporations. That's why we love ya!

So these idiots who say people should get sober and get a job or we're just lazy, what a@@holes they are. Little do they know. We've paid all the same taxes they have, taken less and less in benefits, taken less pay, all the while they bloat themselves with more, more, more. Again, thank god for this President who is trying to help the middle class and the poor. God knows the rich have already helped themselves. I'm not begrudging the rich, unless they begrudge me.

this article seems germane:

http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/_docs/Dave_Schmidt_article.pdf

I know this family personally and they are really amazing parents and friends. Too bad the RWNJ's won't bother,...

Cathy M,

Thank You! I really hope that you and your husband come through alright, it really is terrible that we are expected to 'suck it up and keep going' while they get their Cadillac care and paid more than 4 'average' Americans, or 10 people on Social Security. They have been insulated from what Americans struggle with every day yet they are the ones to complain loudest when Unemployment needs to be extended due to their own failed policies of the past. They plain have NO idea how badly they have hurt America and most Americans with their money making shenanigans and the blatant criminal actions of the Bush Regime, yet they are trying their best to take us right back there.

I hope and Pray that you and your husband will be OK Cathy, and I really enjoy your posts! Keep up the good work and WHACK them Trolls HARD!!

Cathy M. I want to apologize for the timing of my post,...It was in no way a response to your situation. I have been meaning to post it for awhile now and I hit the send button before seeing yours.

It was hopefully eye opening for some and it does underscore your greater point which is that people without insurance really don't have medical options. your husband is already facing his own death panel and for that I am truly sorry. Hugs to you and yours.

CathyM.

You are a very brave lady and I wish you and your family all that is good in this life. God knows you have paid your dues. You are an inspiration to many and I for one am happy to have the privilege to share ideas with you. I assure you that you will be in our prayers.

I agree, seems like Obama is the only grown up in the room when he visits Capital Hill. And he totally "gets it" on the economy. It just amazes me we FINALLY have a President who is effective, ethical and smart and yet, the chattering class just loves to tear him down.

Steeler Fan,

I agree. Our President did a good job with Chuck, but then again he is one of the best speakers I have seen in a long time. He often speaks from the heart and he does get what is going on. I like the way he presents himself. I do not agree with those that say he should get mad and yell etc. What do they want him to do? Take off his shoe and start pounding the table. Somebody tried that gig before. I like him just fine they way he is. You have a great weekend and stay safe.

Agree on that. From every book I've read about the campaign and since he took office, it is a common thread--Pres Obama does not feel the need to engage in the media feeding frenzy; he just keeps plugging along and doing what he thinks is best.

Most interesting is that his decisions reflect what he, based on many experts' advice, feels is what must be done EVEN when he knows it will be unpopular and hurt him politically. It is why GM and Chrysler are still around to name one.

Jody,

It does appear that our President does not have any problem with putting himself on the firing line for ALL Americans. What is getting lost in a lot of this is that President Obama is thinking of all Americans not just a few select ones from a specific privileged group.

Joe, glad you are in a good mood this fine morning.

I sure all the sweet little corporatons appreciate your tireless defense of their interests.

I mean, if we just leave them alone they will create j . . . I mean a failed economy and lots of money in offshore accounts.

Meh, I'm not even remotely fiscally liberal and I don't think corporations should be able to donate to any political campaigns.

So Joe, only the Democrats should make that pledge but not the Republicans, right? I see where you are coming from and what you are all about. Stay in the far right lane, you know the one set aside for the SLOWER traffic. Meanwhile the rest of America will get on with the business of rebuilding from the wreck left behind by the previous administration.

And yes, those of us who are intelligent, rationally based and DO think for themselves will not forget the past. Why? Simply put, those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

"So Joe, only the Democrats should make that pledge but not the Republicans, right?"

It's only the Dems that are ranting about the "evil corporations". All I'm saying is they should man-up and live their principles instead of going on TV and condemning the "evil corporations" while stuffing their campaigm coffers with evil coporate cash.

I can't imagine "those of us who are intelligent, rationally based" would have the slightest problem with that. But, apparently you do.

Joe, I'd like to add 2 responses to your questions.

1) It's nice to see our president trying to pass legislation without regard to political contributions or fear of re-election.

2) For corporations, US Chamber of Congress, and republicans help (NOT) in trying to get us back on track so millions of their fellow countrymen would be able to get back to work (and for a decent wage - $2.15/hr., my god!), that our president would veto any attempt to extend the previous administrations tax cuts from expiring.

According to the republicans (who claim to be fiscal hawks) this should'nt be a problem, right?

Oh, brother. I had to put on my boots.

So, Jody, It's OK with you that the Dems talk a good story condemning the "evil corporations" and then turn around and write then thank you notes for their evil cash being stuffed into their campaign coffers?

Seems like a rather shallow point of view.

I am not Jody but I will take a crack at this response.

I would say the Dems are very smart in accepting those funds to help them get their message and people in place to continue their agenda. Secondly, if the corporations continue to give them the money even though they disagree with them or their agenda then the corporations may need some talking to maybe from you. Third, it just goes to show that the Dems are gracious people even though they may not agree.

A win for the Dems., thank you.

"I would say the Dems are very smart in accepting those funds"

Can you say "hypocritical whores"?

Sure you can.

John B.

Good points. Did he not also want to impound the car or do I have it confused with another? It continues to be the same model from the right. Pretend to be for a bill, dilute the bill as much as possible, then do not vote for it. An the real moral lapse comes in during campaigning that they did not vote for the bill because it was weak, when they the republicans are the ones that weaken it. Some of this is because we do not hold our ground and give up too much in my opinion. This is the result when you need 60 votes in the Senate to do anything. This gets a vote.

Well said. Amazing how that DC and media conventional wisdom has yet to be right. Health care was dead last fall, the financial reform would never pass.

I read in yesterday's paper that Branstad has now moved right--he thinks Iowans should be able to prove they are citizens if stopped by law enforcement. He hasn't quite latched on to a law like AZ but he's getting closer every day.

BTW, thanks for clarifying my remarks yesterday by responding to Joe. I didn't get back to that thread until much later in the day when most likely everyone had moved on.

Crying "racism" is the last resort of scoundrels. Again, when will the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF COLORED PEOPLE apologize for their horrid and disgusting TV ad in 2000 where they used a little girl to bash Bush. I'm sure that's on youtube.

It's good to see people are finally fighting back against the NAACp and their bullying. They have been getting away with too much crap for too long. They were relevant at one time but for the last couple decades their only concern is trying to STAY relevant by clutching for straws and making outrageous claims. They cry "racism" over everything. When someone disagrees, they accuse THAT person. Thanks to the heroes at FOXNEWS and others, this is coming to an end.

Beverly: Your comments are exceptional. Very well said. I voted

CU Farley

It's good to see people are finally fighting back against the NAACp and their bullying. They have been getting away with too much crap for too long.

Farley, you are missing the point, you are reaching for straws, pissing up a rope, trying to hang wall paper with 1 hand, building the 6 floor before the 1st.

At no time ever has the NAACP had rallies where the black panther party Now or 40 years ago hs been there. period. the tea party at there rallies has tea party members that are doing what god would say is wrong. its NOT wrong the be critical, Mad, Pissed off at our government. i think liberals as well as concsertives can say over the last 30 years can say we were both pissed. but its wrong for a groups like NAACP and the Tea party to allow members to display racist signs, carring a monky doll on there sholders with a sign around the neck saying Obama!!! that wrong, and everybody knows it. Now is it me or in the past 2 years has this group gotten more bold as the weeks pass, at first it was good dicussion but now it out of control, and all the NAACP asked it for them to call out there members who are doing this to stop. Peroid. if the New black Panther party members were at NAACP rallys doing this they, the tea party has every right to call the NACCP out. Right!!!!. but sorry people this has not happened.

CU Farley

Crying "racism" is the last resort of scoundrels

What did someone say? How do you know when a liberal is losing an argument? Answer: They start screaming racism. Liberals are sure screaming racism a lot these days. Note the most recent NAACP convention for details.

FARLEY , I bet you did not know what NAACP ment untill the tea party told you.

Joanna, how do you know a republican is talking politics? answer: they are screaming (usually fox talking points)

Glen,

Do not forget the lies that they shout even louder typically why somebody else is talking.

And, of course, that means that Breitbart is calling John Lewis a liar! Why would he have to lie. To be racist you don't have to use the "N" word, to be racist you don't have to spit. All of the other photos I have seen of their so-called demonstrations show me nothing but racist rhetoric. Oh, it may be couched in their code, or in their signs, but it is still racist. And after the NAACP made their statement, did you hear the crap that Mark Williams, a staunch T-partier, made about "colored people". Of course, that wasn't racist either.

See text of Tea Party Express Mark Williams:

Dear Mr. Lincoln

We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!

In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the ‘tea party movement’.

The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.

And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government “stop the out of control spending.” Again, they directly target coloreds. That means we Coloreds would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.

Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?

Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.

Sincerely

Precious Ben Jealous, Tom’s Nephew NAACP Head Colored Person

Enjoyed your post. There's a saying about denial--if someone must deny often, most likely what is being denied is true. (not the exact words)

"What did someone say? How do you know when a liberal is losing an argument? Answer: They start screaming racism."

This one's a lot like the "Liberals think Obama is the Messiah" nonsense. I don't know of anyone on the left that doesn't disagree with SOMETHING the President has done (or hasn't done). Still, the echo chamber works overtime to paint Liberals as some sort of zombie drones. Heck, we disagree with each other here every day.

Similarly the noise about who's the REAL racists, Blacks or Whites, is all coming from the Right. http://michellemalkin.com/2010/07/09/whitewashing-black-racism/ http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=23638 http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/005151.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW3qbibh8Mk http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/obamas_a_racist.html http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/16/iowa-congressman-accusing-obama-favoring-minorities-whites/?test=latestnews

It's all part of a very convenient narrative for Conservatives, who can't afford to offend those inconveniently forward racists who are on the "fringe" of the Tea Party. http://www.black-collegian.com/african/archives/whitey1299.shtml

Don't forget that housing sales are being artificially inflated by the housing credit. As soon as that ends there will be a massive dropoff in sales.

Sdot, the housing credit ended a month or so ago.

This is why I'm not all that concerned about the new Wall Street regulations putting a bit of drag on lending. Unrestrained lending and then passing the risk on the others is what crashed our economy. The math above shows how these speculative bubbles actually prove harmful over the long run.

Dang Ky T if we wre going to have a Poll Dancing exhibition today you should have said something and I'd have got the back room lined up down at the Dew Drop Inn so we'd have plenty of room

Oh, that's good.

Eric - Wow. I am amazed that you went a whole post without demeaning someone on the right or ridiculing some ethnicity or orientation choice to further your political leanings.

The week was thrilling, but It would be THRILLING if you stopped giving us liberals on this blog a bad name. Make your point without the hate.

Steeler Fan:

I think you're drinking too much of that "Liberal kool-aid"....I'm not aware of any polls that support your thesis. Quite frankly, the polls indicate that most people DON'T SUPPORT this socialist radical.

Just look at the metrics like unemployment or GDP. They certainly point out that your boy's policies are NOT WORKING. As for "financial reform", I hope you take time to analyze the bill...it does nothing to offer any true "reform" (just like immigration reform --- all it does it attempt to give massive amnesty to the illegals !)

Signed,

A Capitalist Fan !

Morning, CA and Steeler Fan -

Engaged and working hard? I suspect those are understatements. I also suspect that before I even finish typing this, someone else (no names mentioned, but we all know who she is) will be on here ranting about "What - ANOTHER vacation? Is he going to play some more golf? Will Paul McCartney be there?"

So I thought I would be helpful and mention that the infamous Paul McCartney concert will be broadcast this coming Wednesday as part of PBS' "In Performance At the White House" series. A series that, by the way, began in 1978 - several Presidents ago. But I'm sure President Obama is the first one who actually attended, right?

Okay, enough snark for one day - this weather is driving me even more nuts than I was to begin with and I got zero sleep last night and am too tired and cranky to preach my usual "can't we all get along?" drivel. I motion that instead, we all adjourn early today and head for a round of cold ones at the Dew Drop Inn. Do I hear a second?

Well, Dave--I really wasn't referring to "most people"--was just speaking for myself and I hope other progressives. I don't expect conservatives who have been listening to 3 solid years of lies and distortions about the President to have a positive view of him. I am a capitalist myself and a small business owner and I don't think the President is a socialist but I understand that for some people if you say something enough they will believe it.

Dave R,

Polls do not make good policy. I watch on TV and on every social site people reacting to Obama's actions and I am glad that the people answering polls aren't running the country. You and all the other people are NOT qualified to run a country. You and JoannaSmith like to pretend that you have a clue but you do not. You are not leaders but merely followers. Your ignorance is offensive.

We do not govern by a consensus from the average Americans like yourself.

I hear you Joanne, PA. The heat here on Wed was terrible, even with the air conditioner on I was still perspiring while sitting. We did get a break yesterday but it won't last long.

I'm a capitalist and Pres Obama is one, too. I believe, however, that business should work for the people who build the products or make their profits, and it should work for those who buy their products and not for those in Congress who make it easier for those companies to abuse their employees, the public and ruin the economy.

Dave R,

Actually, if you are going to listen to the polls, they also show that most Americans do not really know what 'socialist' really means, same for 'liberal', they have just heard them as 'bad words' from the right for so long that they associate them negatively.

Also, the people that are Not doing their proper jobs for Society at large are those very capitalists that you so blindly follow. They are sitting on the greater majority of the wealth of this Nation, yet even with all the tax breaks and incentives, they are not lending or hiring. They seem to be marching in lockstep with the Repubs to make sure that the economic numbers are bad by November in an attempt to gain Repub support. Most Americans are not going to be fooled, we were fooled by Bush and Co, and are paying close attention now. The Right thinks that they are ahead at the moment, but that is only because their own followers are out in the street yelling and screaming, mostly the lies and distortions from Faux Neuz, which is making the rest of us keep quiet , gritting our teeth waiting for the chance to get to the polling station in November!

Say what you like, but the Repub Party and it's policies have been a total failure for quite some time and it is time for them to retire the team, for the good of all of us!

B Honest

I would like to add to yours above about the corporations. Now the new talking point is that they are hesitant, etc. because the poor dears are confused about what may be happening in the area of regulation. That's the newest talking point. They are hesitant to create jobs, or lend money because of "uncertainty". However, where have they been for the last decade? Have jobs been created? I think not. Have they made loans that were fair, I think not. Have they issued credit without reaping huge returns, I think not. Have they screwed the public with their fine print, their usury rates, Yep. Have they shipped all our jobs overseas? Yep. But because of the new regulations, they are all holding back because of "uncertainty". Well, they've been screwing us for years, holding back for years, unless they can reap huge returns from us. But, anyway, that is their latest, Fox Noise's latest, and the Repubs latest talking points.

Eric,

Spoken like a true "uninformed" liberal (you fit perfectly in California where you liberals are destroying your economy).

Beck is "shedding a thousand tears" because he sees what this socialist clown is doing to the rest of us.

What I can't believe is that liberals like you haven't woken up and figured out what idiots like Pelosi are doing to this nation.

What's amazing to me is that people like you continue to support these liberals, but then you're one of the first ones to demand "bailouts" when your state goes belly-up from all of your senseless spending and entitlement policies!

Dave, do a little research. You'll Find the entire Glenn Beck agenda here http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Birch_Society . Beck is a cheap rodeo clown, a former shock jock who spent weeks setting up a gag where he would send a gerbil through a bank tube http://theweek.com/article/index/203885/glenn-becks-pre-fame-enemy-list in order to freak out an unsuspecting teller. For years his schtick was how he was just a regular guy who was confused because he didn't understand why others can't see what he can. Now he's "Professor Beck."

The guy is a fraud, and actor and even admits it http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/building-an-empire-glenn-beck-makes-32m-a-year.php . He just finally found a character he can play that resonates with enough people to make him filthy rich.

Eric,

I was reading last night where Glenn has lost one-third of his viewers from January this year and about 200 sponsors have jumped shipped. Do you think the handwriting is on the wall? I know that he still has a big following (about 2M down from 3M) but we can hope. I wonder if the bean counters at Fox have noticed this decline. Yes is was a good week indeed. Have a great weekend.

Dave,

You talk alot. . . but with the exception of your personal opinion . . . I don't see much to back up what you say.

Holler at me when you have a link or some facts.

I am going to need more than judicious use of the word "socialism" to help me understand what you are trying to say.

Nashville Fan,

Where do you want to begin? How about unemployment approaching 10%?

How about a TRIPLE-DEFICIT since your boy got in office?

How about the S&P 500 being lower than the price of gold for the first time in history?

How about our debt load approaching 60% of our GDP for the first time in history?

How about that "death-tax" that your boy is about to institute next year (that reaches up to at 55% rate ??)

How about those latest studies indicating that "Obama-Care" isn't really going to reduce the deficit after all?

I could keep going and going...but hopefully you'll wake up and realize what a disaster your boy Obama is BEFORE he totally ruins the nation !

Dave,

The nation was ruined well before President Obama was sworn in. Things have gotten better since, whether you acknowledge it or not.

And just for the record - the deficit problems were left by President Bush.

I will provide a link where you can verify this . . . you should try to do the same. Some of what you think you know, you do not know.

"[O]nly 10 percent of $2 trillion swing into deficit is due to Obama policies; the rest, about 53 percent of the new deficit, is attributed to Bush’s tax cuts and spending increases (including the extensions. Nonetheless, by 2020, spending will equal 26 percent of GDP because of Social Security — that Bush promised to but never did reform — and Medicare — to which he added benefits — while taxes will bring in only 19 percent of GDP."

http://washingtonindependent.com/79537/why-george-w-bush-was-worse-for-the-deficit-than-barack-obama

Don't believe everything you read or hear Dave . . . find the info for yourself . . . you may be surprised.

Dave R,

60% is not the highest level ever. In 1950 it was at 80% of GDP.

Debt held by the public is @ 60% yet Jan. 1 2009 it was @ 54.6% and on Jan. 1 2001 it was @ 33.0%.

How did we get from 33% in 2001 to 54.6% at the end of 2008?

Dave R-307255

the president of the united states is not a BOY!!!! he is a MAN!!!! See you white people all the sudden are refering to blacks as colored and boy. tell us there is not racist and i'll tell you your full of SH@T!!!!

Jeff - I understand your anger. However, do me a favor and do not lump all white people into the same category as Dave R who is a racist.

Jeff can't say anything but something racist, Kathy. See how "you black people" talk, Jeff!

Dasvet

Jeff can't say anything but something racist, Kathy. See how "you black people" talk, Jeff!

CATHY M.-647265

Jeff - I understand your anger. However, do me a favor and do not lump all white people into the same category as Dave R who is a racist.

Believe me kathy i don't. just like i hope whites don't lump all backs together because of the crazys in the new black panther party. they don't respersent how hard working middle class blacks feel.

dave what did i say that was racist. you call the president a BOY, and i did not call you a racist, i don't know you. just like CU farley i asked him what his ethnicty is, because i would love to call him out not as a white person but what he really is. so i will ask you the same question, what are you, Irish, german, Italian, Polish, whats. see by calling the president a boy, that is a code word used years ago to put black men down. every ethnicty has code words to put other races down. so instead of calling you a stupid white person and call out the whole white race, i want to know what you are so i can call you out. an example would be, if your half german and Polish, then you want to take over the world but too dumb to know how. if your irish they oha my god, you must spend your days in the bars and night at the confessional. see what i mean. its easy for some whites to say BOY or Colored then the response from that black preson is degrading the whole white race, that not how i play this game, i play to the ethnic of each person because if i knew what you are i could say something hurt full to your ethnicy, that will hurt you as much as it hurts to be called a boy. get me!!!

in closing you as a white person have never had to prove if your a man or boy, well blacks have for 100 years.

so don't be like farley and not answer tell me what you are!!!!

if you have balls unlike farley you will resopne and tell me.

Eric,

If you haven't figured it out, it's Obama who wants to make "slaves" out of all of the achievers with his confiscatory tax policies.
I for one don't feel like being a slave to this clown....we all be in "tall cotton" when they finally get rid of this idiot !

Dave,

Check with your employer . . . your health insurance plan may offer medication that is very effective with your paranoid delusions.

President Obama has cut your taxes Dave . . . and please name an "acheiver" that the President has "enslaved".

But of course you can't.

Time to seek treatment.

Dave R - You are aware that taxes are at their lowest point since the depression right?

Just keep on quoting those far right talking points. Keep on believing that all of those fiscally conservative republicans are going to cut the deficit and balance the budget just like they have done every time they have control of Congress (snark meter way past the maximum).

Check your facts regarding taxes and get back to us when you can back up your talking points with proof. Until then you're just fighting windmills. (I'm sure you know the reference).

Nashville Fan,

Spoken like a true naive liberal !! If you would rely on news that is "fair and balanced", you would know that personal income tax rates, capital gains rates, death-tax rates are ALL GOING UP.

Only someone like yourself who probably listens to nothing but the liberal blather of CNN, CBS and MSNBC would think that our taxes have been cut !!

Do you still believe in the tooth-fairy?

Eric, Salinas, CA

What a total jerk that some clown from Minnesota named Emmer is calling for servers at restaurants to have their base wage rate cut to $2.13 an hour.

Oakland (that's in California Eric) Police Chief Anthony Batts listed exactly 44 situations that his officers will no longer respond to and they include grand theft, burglary, car wrecks, identity theft and vandalism. He says if you live and Oakland and one of the above happens to you, you need to let police know on-line. And when they get to it, well, I guess they'll let you know. Or, maybe they won't.

So Eric, why exactly are not worried about Oakland, a city in the state you live, is no longer providing essential services to it's citizens, but you are worried about how much someone makes that is slinging scrambled eggs?

And how can this situation in Oakland happen in Obama's America? I mean, hasn't the country been improved so much from George Bush's reign that something like what is happening in Oakland would be unimaginable? How can the police, the government, not protect it's citizens against the crimes of grand theft and burglary? How about violations of criminals that require them to register as sex or arson offenders? Embezzlement? All crimes the Oakland police say they no longer will respond to.

Eric, do you think the citizens of Oakland think they are better off then they were 19 months ago?

Full article: http://www.ktradionetwork.com/nwo/oakland-police-to-only-respond-to-major-crimes/

SayitaintSo-628660

Dave R - You are aware that taxes are at their lowest point since the depression right?

Sayit, in your opinion, how high do taxes need to be raised before we see prosperity return to the country?

Dave R, you are the classic example of the truely uninformed. tax rates are lower under obama. the only slaves i see are the ones at the alter of fox news and the clowns over there. people like you yell freedom, but pretty much quote and do whatever master hannity and master limpballs tell you to. and actually, all of the talking heads over there tax you in the form of their book sales. it is schtick that they are selling and you are buying it and yelling it and you are too dumb to notice. you already are a slave dave. but not to who you think.

Joanna, you ask how high taxes need to be raised for prosperity? how about if we go back to the clinton rates. the ones that never ever should have been touched. you remember clinton? the last president to have a balanced budget. let me say it again, the last president to have a balanced budget. one more time for the truely ignorant (yourself and dave r). the last president to have a balanced budget.

Dave,

Research and find the truth:

Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm

JoAnna:

We are responding to Dave's statement upthread that "it's Obama who wants to make "slaves" out of all of the achievers with his confiscatory tax policies."

That statement is not true.

And Dave was unable to name these poor "enslaved acheivers".

Dave, like you, was making stuff up to stir the pot.

But of course, when you can't stand on your achievements, and the things you have been advocating for decades turns out to not work, what is left other than to make thinkgs up?

Predictable but sad.

glen quagmire, Quahog, RI

Joanna, you ask how high taxes need to be raised for prosperity? how about if we go back to the clinton rates. the ones that never ever should have been touched.

Seeing you advocate going back to the Clinton tax rates, do you also advocate going back to the what the federal government was spending back in the Clinton years, (it was about half of what Obama is spending)?

JoAnna:

We are responding to Dave's statement upthread that "it's Obama who wants to make "slaves" out of all of the achievers with his confiscatory tax policies."

NF - I'm asking a simple question. How high do taxes need to be raised to bring prosperity back to America? What is your answer?

JoAnna:

I don't dance to your tune. You ignore much of what I post, and yet I am supposed to provide you with instant responses.

The issue isn't "how high should taxes be", the issue is "what financial policies work and which ones don't".

The unfunded tax cuts didn't work. Plain and simple.

Now you explain that. But you can't. So you want to change the subject.

The simple fact is that "conservatives" ran our economy in the ground, and now claim that if we do the exact same thing that destroyed it, that will fix it.

I call bullsh!t.

And you want to know what is an appropriate tax rate?

How can I have any financial discussion with someone who will not even acknowledge the failure right in her face of much of what she advocates?

Can't do it.

I don't know why you even bother responding to Joanne - it's like talking to a wall. She will never get it. Common sense is unknown to her. She is a true idealogue. It is not worth the time or effort because she cannot learn or understand anything that veers from her Fox perceptions and her Obama derangement syndrome.

Nashville_fan

JoAnna:

I don't dance to your tune. You ignore much of what I post, and yet I am supposed to provide you with instant responses.

The issue isn't "how high should taxes be", the issue is "what financial policies work and which ones don't".

Fair enough. You do realize tax revenues increased after the Bush tax cuts went into effect. Rich people, like Nancy Pelosi and her husbands real estate and venture capital business, made more money and paid more taxes, even though it was at a lower rate. Real estate? Isn't that what brought the country down in 2008. Hmmm. But I digress.

NF - your side of the political spectrum are advocating higher taxes. They don't advocate less government spending, so tax increases are the only leg they have to stand on for the "financial policies" you speak about. I would expect that your intentions are noble and that you think that those increased taxes will improve the prosperity of America. The question remains, how much higher should taxes be to return prosperity to the country?

If you can't answer that question, then how can you advocate for it to happen?

CATHY M.-647265

I don't know why you even bother responding to Joanne - it's like talking to a wall. She will never get it. Common sense is unknown to her. She is a true idealogue. It is not worth the time or effort because she cannot learn or understand anything that veers from her Fox perceptions and her Obama derangement syndrome.

Cathy, why is it so difficult for you and your side to answer a simple question? It's the liberals idea to increase taxes. It's your Holy Grail! Why don't you want to defend your position when a simple, straight forward question is asked about it? So please, stop with the diversions, the smoke screens, the changing of the subject, and with the duck-and-cover, and answer the question: How much do taxes have to be raised before prosperity returns to America?

Joanna,

If tax revenues were so great, then where did that big fat deficit come from?

I don't have a "side", I have "reality".

I think that if we spend MY TAX DOLLARS that I PAY IN on programs that help FOLKS LIKE ME and not on SUBSIDIZING PRIVATE CORPORATIONS that pay ZERO INCOME TAX in this country that would be a great place to start.

Like why did banks pay NO MONEY into the FDIC for TEN YEARS, and then when the financial system collapsed, WE THE PEOPLE were on the hook?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/03/11/now_needy_fdic_collected_little_in_premiums/

Why are oil companies getting TAX BREAKS when they are making RECORD PROFITS and some, like Exxon paid ZERO taxes in 2009?

Oil companies have a rich history of U.S. subsidies

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/25/nation/la-na-oil-spill-subsidies-20100525

“ExxonMobile paid ZERO taxes for 2009”
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-tax/

I am not advocating a certain tax level, I am advocating COMMON SENSE when it comes to the economy. Acknowledging when something doesn't work. Making adjustments as needed.

Not blind acceptance that the "private sector" is good and the "guvment" is bad, when we are surrounded by evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps if we quit giving no bid contracts to fat private sector contractors who can't even account for how they spent the money, we could begin to chip away at the deficit without having to leave millions of Americans jobless, homeless, and without health insurance because rich people don't want to pay their taxes or a living wage.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101465347

Dave R. Are you willing to work for $2.13 an hour? Could you or your children live on $2.13 an hour.

Selfish fools are intolerable and it looks like there are plenty of them in the GOP.

Nashville_fan

Joanna,

If tax revenues were so great, then where did that big fat deficit come from?

Umm, from the government spending more then they take in. Obama has quadrupled the amount of deficit spending that was done under Bush. Now the excuse of course is that we're in a recession and the government needs to spend to stimulate the economy. Fair enough, but Obama projects that he's deficit spending will be in the area of $1.5 trillion a year for the next five years. And even while doing that, the economy still struggles.

Now, NF, your side says to increase taxes to reduce/eliminate the deficit. Obama even hired on the financial guru that balanced the budget for Clinton. Obama and the Democrats have made no attempt at reducing spending, so they must advocate that taxes be raised to close the deficit. Liberals, of which you appear to be one, support this strategy overwhelmingly.

So the question remains, and you know what it is. Answer it.

So, why did the "deficit hawks" decide to take in less revenue than they needed to cover the budget, JoAnna?

Look, there's a certain amount of stimulative effect from reducing taxes, that's acknowledged. The point is that contrary to Conservative orthodoxy tax cuts don't pay for themselves http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=165 .

Back to that, why does revenue increase after a tax cut? Because growth in the economy ALWAYS causes revenue to increase. How much of the increase was due to economic growth that was spurred by the tax cut? That's the real question, but the answer is clearly "less than enough to pay for the tax cut itself."

Why does the budget increase? Partly it's new programs and such, but in our modern era a lot of it is just simple inflation, since new programs are difficult to get authorized. do you go on a message board and complain because a loaf of bread costs more than it did last year. Of course not. You're not happy, but it's part of life.

Joanna,

You wrote:

"Obama has quadrupled the amount of deficit spending that was done under Bush."

Joanna, how do you figure that?

Please back that up for me.

I have asked you before, but in typical fashion you just IGNORE what you don't want to address.

"$1.2 trillion of $1.4 trillion deficit was already projected before Bush left office. On January 7, 2009, CBO stated in its Budget and Economic Outlook that "[w]ithout changes in current laws and policies, CBO estimates, outlays will rise from $3.0 trillion in 2008 to $3.5 trillion in 2009." This estimate included $240 billion -- in contrast to the $91 billion recorded at the end of fiscal year 2009 -- for "incorporating the two housing GSEs into the federal budget." Before Obama took office or signed any legislation, CBO had estimated that the deficit would be $1.2 trillion for fiscal year 2009."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201001290035

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-Outlook.pdf#page=24

Do you have an opinion about corporations paying no taxes while getting subsidies from the government JoAnna?

I've answered your question, you've ignored mine.

More of your "the world revolves around me" thinking I guess.

Dave R.

Sorry to clue you in buddy, but taxes have gone down under President Obama. You should view MSNBC and maybe then you would not make such dumb statements. You are showing us that you are getting the majority of your information from Rush and Glenn.

When you're too dumb for Tancredo, you're too d@mn dumb! This guy has to think about involuntary reflexes!

Jody: One of the reasons you write so well is that you are also well read. Excellent post.

Jody and Ron,

After "only 19 months", it should be apparent that policies are working or not. The fact is that all of this massive spending by your socialist boy is NOT helping things out at all. Just look at the metrics (unemployment, GDP, taxable revenues, etc.) -- NOTHING is going in the right direction.

Sprinkle in his stupid foreign policy and his disastrous handling of the BP situation and it's clear this clown is nothing more than a hyped up community-organizer.

You should thank your lucky stars that you have educated people who have formed the "tea party" and recognize a socialist when they see one.

Still waiting for a proven fact from you Dave.

I won't hold my breath.

You are alike a kid with a new blogging toy . . . spewing all over the place but not saying much of anything.

I so hoped you had something to offer.

Thanks, Ron.

As for Dave R, the Joseph Addison quote fits. Democrats do not have all the answers but today's repubicans have no ideas except fear sells.

Dave R-307255:

After "only 19 months", it should be apparent that policies are working or not.

And it's apparent that the stimulus policy did in fact work, as charts of jobs lost/created over the past 2 years clearly show. When Obama took the oath of office in January, 700,000 jobs were lost that month. Jobs are now being added, although certainly far below what's needed. A casual glance at the Dow averages over the past two years also shows that the economy is recovering. The Dow may still be struggling to stay above 10,000 but it's still a heck of a lot better than in Jan. 2009 when it was around 7000 at the very depths of the recession caused by the incompetent management of Bush and the GOP.

Dave R.,

You better start doing some research other than from Rush and Glenn. You are grossly wrong in several of your posts today and you are getting eaten alive. The facts are against you.

Eric,

Keep throwing out those names ! And keep yelling RACISM ....it tells me you liberals are out of ideas and have nothing else to do but resort to these type of tactics.

Pay attention in November....it'll soon be clear how liberals like you are in the minority !

Dave R,

You're too dumb. Recycling talking points that have been proven false and your team is the one to lead us into the future!?! Right. The fact is people get tired of trying to make you see reality instead of the fantasy that you and people like you live in. We'll see come November if you and yours can fool the majority of Americans. I doubt it though. Stupidity is on the decline. <----that's what the fictitious polls show me. See you and your stupid posts around.