Bev, I wish it was that simple - I'd like the soldiers and our money to come home too! But I think this war's more like a cancer - you don't walk away from it because it's too expensive and difficult to treat. Afghanistan needs some serious treatment to become safe and secure to keep taliban forces from growing and attacking again.

Ursula:

I will have to disagree. It can be done and quickly. Just bring the troops home. And who are the Taliban forces going to attack? Denver, Colorado? The Taliban will be part of the future and part of the government of Afghainistan after we leave, whether now or 10 years from now. The current pseudo Afghan government is no less corrupt than the Taliban. The United States cannot enter into a war or policing action in every country that needs some serious treatment. When there is a cancer at home as economic failure, joblessness and other major internal issues that need attention, and that can quickly weaken the country, one does not first treat other nations when that treatment impacts the country's ability to treat and strengthen itself. We can be of no use to Afghnaistan in thier home if we weaken and die in our own home.

What better way to spend your BIRTHDAY Girlfriend than 'tearing' up the right wing nuts!

You're on FIRE today!

Wishing you all the best and a piece of my special popcorn Birthday cake (it's Mark Murray's favorite but don't tell anyone K? ;0)

You know C.A. I was having a conversation my niece and her Fiance last evening.He's a Marine and is shiping out to Afganistan in October so they have put any wedding plans on hold till after his tour. I was thinking about much good it would do my heart if these two young folks didn't have to put things on hold. Do you think the President could just walk away from this and still win a second term? I know that really shouldn't enter into a fellow's mind if he's looking at doing the right thing and isn't the only factor in play here. But I sure would be interested in your thoughts if you have the time or the inclination

Considering conditions here at home and the fact that we can stay in Afghanistan another 10 years and the outcome will be the same, I believe Obama could call the troops home and be re-elected, Afghanistan is not really a country like most would relate to, it is a hodge podge of tribes with different ways of life, religion and culture, they really don't pay much attention to what the Karzi Government says, and never will. One of the reasons Obama got my vote is that he seemed the least likely to continue on with Afghanistan, the U.S. is allegedly to the point where endlessly spending of borrowed money in unsustainable, if this is true we need to take care of our own and get out of the nation building business, at any rate if our Government continues to turn it's back on the masses they will need those troops to protect their sorry asses D.C.

Independent:

My personal opinion is that whether Obama wins a second term or not is going to depend on the economy and the unemployment rate prior to the election. If the economy does not improve and if the unemployment numbers do not begin decreasing to at least 8% or less, I think Obama has a good chance of losing the election regardless of his decisions on Afghanistan.

Oh boy Independent, I hate expressing the opinions I have on this thread about Afghanistan knowing that you have a soon to be new family member heading to Afghanistan to serve. So please do not in anyway take it that I will not be 100% in support of your niece and that new family member who is going to serve. I sincerely hope they both do well and that things can settle down for them soon. I have two son's who have not been home for 6 + years (except for a few short visits) who are serving in special units back and forth between Iraq and Afghanistan. So don't think I don't support and love the troops and the efforts they are giving to make life better over there for others.

But that does not stop me from seeing the handwriting on the wall regarding these operations. I participated in one years ago myself and can tell you, I smell, and very strongly, the scent that one can picks up from a bull when it keeps trying to batter its way through a steel wall with its head. The bull becomes more frustrasted and confused each day. But it keeps trying to bust through that steel wall. It becomes bloody and stale blood does not smell particularly nice.

Obama just needs to do the right thing and bring those troops home whether it impacts his chance of re-election or not. After-all, he did state that if doing the right thing means he is a one term President then so be it. Ok, so let's see the proof.

C.A. Thanks That was the perspective that I was looking for and reading back I was hoping that You didn't mistake my intentions. I asked because I knew that you would give me a good point of view and because I agree with your perspective on this. I knew that You have a couple of son's serving and that gives you a little better perspective on how hard it is to set there with those young folks and bring that support across to them when you know in your heart that they are probably being sent on a failed mission or at least a flawed one. The young man will go and do his duty as so many have because it is not in their character to shirk and I'll set on the back porch of a evening and add him to the little prayer that I say for all them. I just can't help being a little sad at the necessity sometimes.

I share your sadness Independent, but not due to t e necessity. There was no necessity entering into these land conflicts with troops in either Iraq or Afghanistan. I share in your sadness because as a nation we have not learned our lessons (and those of others) from history. War is a necessity anytime one must defend their homeland from an invader or aggressor. War should never be a necessity to attempt to nation build in other countries. I realize some might counter that by invading Iraq and Afghanistan we in fact were protecting our homeland. I just happen to disagree with the manner in which such portection was pursued. When conventional style wars are set aside by an enemy choosing to use terrorism because their are too gutless to meet us face to face then our strategy sghould folow their, we have to learn to think, fight and pursue terrorist with our own brand of terrorism. And sending ground troops into areas where the enemy can blend in with the population and where they can find support among that population either by way of real or fear driven support, is a big, big mistake.

C.A. I agree with that assesment pretty much and voicing it has gotten me in a spot of bother time to time. That's really not the necesity that I'm quite getting to though. My nescesity speaks more along the lines of the fine youngsters having to go because that sense of duty that will not let them shy from doing all they can for the rest of their fellow service members no matter the mission. Kind of like the necesity that they put on themselves.I just wish that we could chose the direction that we send them a little more wisely and not waste the sacrifices that they make. Keep well this evening.

Retired:

Progress means that the Afghan army becomes strong and confident enough to provide the secuirty and stability that Afghanistan needs, and that the current Afghan government renounce their corrupt ways and to begin taking care of the Afghan people minus the corruption. It is not going to happen.

Nor will we be pulling more than a token number of troops out when the "deadline" is here...Even in Iraq, despite the announcement that "Combat Forces" will be withdrawn by August, 50,000 American troops will remain there indefinitely. They all have guns btw- and it is pure semantics to say that they are not "combat troops" as we have no "non-combat troops"...

Agreed dangerfield:

This is a topic (issue) where I have my greatest disappointment in Obama. Unless he has information and knowledge of something that I am unaware of that would justify remaining in Afghanistan as well as adding troops (as well as maintaining 50,000 in Iraq) then it is my opiniion that he is flat wrong on this one.

If anyone would read and/or study reports coming out of Afghnaistan as to how the training is going regarding the Afghan army, the number of dissertions they have every week, the number that go to the other side after reciving training , the fear those left have of the Taliban when the Taliban say Boo!!, and the corrutption at the top of the Afghan Army, they would understand that unless the U.S. wants to assign its own military as a lengthy and on-going contractor to provide Afghanistan the security and stability it requires for years on end at the cost of many Amecian lives, then it is time to come home.

CA

We are building a sandcastle at low tide, but what is the alternative? Eisenhower inherited Viet Nam and gifted it to Kennedy, who bequeathed it to Johnson, who left it for Nixon...over 20 years from Dien Bien Phu(ey)

I don't see what the president can do, as like many before him the trajectory was set before he walked in the door. The saddest thing is how many brave, committed, Americans have and will make the ultimate sacrifice in the most likely futile effort.

dangerfield:

It would be a monumental tough decision to bring the troops home quickly in light of the Amercian lives already lost in these theatres. Some would be livid saying how can you leave when I lost a son or daughter over there a year or two years ago. Some would want to tar and feather Obama. But he has to weigh the cost to him politically in that regard versus the cost of losing more young Amercian lives over there in the future. I tough call. A very tough call. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but I know what decision I would make.

"I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but I know what decision I would make"

Only if and when you filled those shoes would you really know how heavily a decision like that must weigh. "Where you stand depends on where you sit", as the old bromide goes...

dangerfield:

True.

LOL Bev... Good luck with the edijucation of the right wingers... I've found you can't fix stupid... but hey... there's always hope right?

Enjoy your evening & 29 IT is... ;0)