http://boingboing.net/2009/10/20/86-year-old-wwii-vet.html

this video gets me every time! If not now, when?

Thanks for sharing the video. I remember hearing this man's comment before; and I still find myself thinking what a good father he is, and what an example for everyone else.

Thanks from me, too. I hope a LOT of people see this video! It makes a big impression.

Clara,

The military is definately not a Democracy. Rules are rules and if in this case, homosexuals do not like them, maybe they should find a new line of work. Yes gays are in the military but it is not flaunted.

The military should not be the place for a social experiment.

IMO: If this is repealed, there will be problems galore. I was a groundpounder and those guys do not roll like that.

I'm sure a reporter can go and find a soldier that will say they don't mind but you can also find just as many that feel civilian society is infringing upon theirs. This is a society within a society. If you have never served, you will never understand the bond.

The Vietnam era soldiers are long gone so their animosity from being drafted is gone. This is why I will say as a recent retiree our outlook is very different. We all volunteered.

My era of soldiers are the leaders in the military right now and they will not be gone until another at least 10-15 yrs. Maybe when this generation become the leaders, things may change.

ITM, you and I both know the same arguments was made about our ancestors when they served in the military going back to the Revolutionary War, coming to a head during WWII and Truman's Executive Order De-Segregating the military in 1948.

I grant you, that their struggle for Civil Rights is not the same as ours, but there are some simmilarities. Consider, everybody should have the right to serve our Nation with honor, the same as you and I have. Now, I ask you, how can we proclaim to be a nation that incorporates different people from all walks of life when we force one group to hide what they are or employ/deploy consequences for being honest about who and what they are?

ANSWER: YOU CAN'T.

Say what you will spiritually, morally, ethically, and I will agree with you. However, CONSTITUTIONALLY, DADT needs to be RE-PEALED

Thank you! The real issues is about the old white guys at the top who don't like change-sound familiar.

@InTheMiddle -- you are right that the Military should not be a democracy, soldiers should take orders, not be asked "opinions". But you are wrong in your conclusion: DADT should be repealed now, instantly, and I believe the soldiers are professional enough to handle it.

Further, it is NOT an "experiment". Integrated militaries have served in Canada, the U.K., Australia, Israel (arguably the most elite most disciplined military in the world) and there has not been one single problem. Not one!

The people who are disrespecting the soldiers, are the Republican congressmen and military leaders who seem to think that U.S. soldiers are soooo weak, so pathetic, that the mere presence of a homosexual will cause them to lose their ability to do the job! Now that is offensive.

I think people should be able to live their lives as they please, as long as they're not breaking any laws or causing harms to others. I could care less if my soldiers are gay or lesbians, but rather if they're good soldiers. Why does what goes on in someone's bedroom matter so much to others?

Thank You for your viewpoint WomanMarine, I agree greatly, why Should anyone care what goes on in someone else's bedroom??

I would also like to Thank You for Your Service to this Nation, as I am sure that several other of the Vets here on the board would as well, so I thank you for all of us!!

USN DV (Ret)

I am right there with ya Bro! When I was in the Navy I knew several gays, it did not matter to me at all, one hit on me once, I politely told him I was straight and got an immediate apology, never heard of it again, and he apparently told his friends because None of them hit on me afterwards. As far as living with them, no problem there either, they kept their sexual life to themselves, on the beach, and as far as working with them, they were as dedicated to doing their duty for the Nation as I was, they were good people and I never worried that they would drop the ball during an emergency or the like: on board a ship you are a team, a part of the ship, if there is a problem you FIX it, Now, and a person's sexual preference makes no difference when you are on a Fire Party fighting a shipboard fire or flooding. Been there, done that, and who you are sleeping with, on your own time, makes no difference when the General Quarters Alarm goes off. I would imagine it the same out in the field when the firefight starts, you do not CARE about such things, you are concentrating on killin the other bastard before he does you in, not who your partner in the ditch is sleeping with. Gays and Lesbians are as Patriotic as anyone else, moreso in fact, if you take into consideration that they go in KNOWING that they may get busted out because of their sexual preference, yet go ahead and serve anyways...More Power To Them!

US Navy,

Your statement is what I was always taught about the Navy. I won't repeat them but the Village People didn't make a song about the Army..........hmmm

USN Retired and Be Honest -- you are what is best about this country and its military people.

In the Middle. You, sir, are a prejudiced soul and I am being kind because I was taught to be polite.

And Jody

IntheMiddle is also an intellectual coward.

But thats ok for you, you were not forced to hide your sexuality. So its okay for you to talk about your wife or girl friend but a gay person is not allowed to talk about their partner while in the military ?

Jason,

That is very true, and it is rather sad as well. I remember a song by Leslie Fish, something about:

THEY (meaning straights) can Hold Hands While walking in the park, But What about Us?

I remember very little of it, as you might can tell, but as a young man it did make me think of the plight of those folks, not so different than you or I, that happened to love someone, but because of society, they were not able to publicly show their love for their partner.

I am straight, never thought to walk that side of the fence ( I like women far too much for that), but I have never felt it was my place to ridicule or scorn their lifestyle, even less when I realized that almost NONE of them "Chose" that lifestyle, but refused to live a lie and try to be "straight". As far as I am concerned, I lump homophobia right along with racism, it is mostly based on ignorance and a trained Hate for the Other, usually from those of religious backgrounds.

One of the gays on board ship would lie about his time on the beach "With the Girls" I always felt rather sad for him, that he HAD to lie. I can only hope that they repeal DADT for the good of these folks, so that they do not have to live a lie just to serve their Nation, doing their duty so that others will not have to, and can be recognized for who they truly are: Decent, Loving, Human Beings who deserve every bit of freedom as the rest of us do, especially because they have fought and died, just like anyone else. Why should they not have the freedom to love who they will, if that love is returned??

UNA_Lion

Those same concerns were voiced about Women serving in the military as well, and it has been found that it really makes little difference with them. Women have inadvertently found themselves in front line fighting and found they can hold their own with the guys. When hot lead is flying by your head, the last thing on your mind is sex and properly trained, the men don't immediately go off 'protecting the womenfolks from harm.' Heck, the gal may well be a better shot than the guys, some women are just that way (my sister was deadly with a rifle), just like some men aren't. The Military has found that women do just fine in the military, so why do GLBT's bother you so much?? Prejudice maybe?? Stop and think how many cultures you encountered in Boot, did you learn anything from it?? Why should it be different with the GLBT folks?

I have known people who have served in all of the services, and unless they are prejudiced to begin with, NONE of them could see any problem with GLBTs serving aside from having to deal with those that are prejudiced. However since the UCMJ forbids prejudicial treatment based on Race, Creed, Religion or Sex, this should NOT be a problem either....strictly forbidden by the Law and actionable in practice. The only people who it is going to bother is going to be the prejudiced, and if having GLBTs in their unit is going to cause THEM to be unready, then THEY need to get out, not the GLBTs, because they are UNABLE to live up to the UCMJ because of their prejudice. Very Simple really, the only people with a problem are prejudiced to begin with and they need to grow up!

Those same concerns were voiced about Women serving in the military as well, and it has been found that it really makes little difference with them.

Women are readily discernible from men - they possess physical characteristics that are noticeably different from men - no behavior patterns are necessary in order to figure out who they are, and tracking them separately from men is simple (and yes, all Soldiers are tracked on USR). What physical characteristics can commanders and senior non-commissioned officers use to distinguish those who engage in certain forms of sexual behavior, from those who do not? Ironically, if DADT is lifted, commanders will be forced to track homosexuals within their units in order to ensure conformation with modified regulatory guidance and changes in SOP. Furthermore, what other form of minority sexual behavior is currently identified in the US military as a protected minority?

Very Simple really, the only people with a problem are prejudiced to begin with and they need to grow up!

Nice simplistic and sweeping statement - have you commanded a unit? If not, I'd invite you to read the comments and follow-on discussion to which I helpfully linked prior to commenting further.

Just ask those other Nation's officers how hard it is, I think you will be rather surprised at the answers you will find, most of them are no where near so prudish as Americans. And if our Military spent less time worrying over who is sleeping with whom, they could get to SOLDIERING better, instead of exercising their prejudices! Just like there are marriages within the ranks, that does not impact unit readiness, why should someone with a same sex lover be any less ready?? EVERYBODY knows that you do not sleep around with your unit, that is crazy, and to think that you will be "Overrun with Gays" just shows you to be ignorant. Does someone having a girlfriend keep them from military readiness?? No, Does a woman having a husband or lover keep them from military readiness, No...You are just bringing up another strawman which can just as easily be shot down. Having GLBT's in the military does NOT mean that they are going to turn ya all into a bunch of fruitloops having sex in the bunkers while combat rages (afterall, you are not having orgies with the women soldiers out there, now are you?), it merely means that they can state who or what sex their lover is, without recriminations from Command, and just that. If they are breaking the UCMJ, then they will be properly dealt with, until then, they are just another Soldier, Sailor or Marine, due the same respect as you are, nothing more, nothing less.

Any sexual behavior that you are worried about is already going on now, to think that it will be any worse after repealing DADT is ludicrous. If you cannot deal with the problems now, then you are not doing a very good job of being an officer or there are Other problems within Command. Young people are sexually active, and they always have and always will, but they ALL know that you just do not mess around 'in unit.' It won't be any different after repealing DADT, the officers will just actually have to do their jobs instead of pretending to!

UNA_Lion

I do apologize for labeling you, personally, as prejudiced. I can see from your other post, the link you sent me to, I had to stop and think a while about it after I left my last post above, (which I HAD read your linked post prior to posting it btw). I have come to the realization that while you are not particularly prejudiced, you are are part of an effectively built-in Organizational prejudice, and the higher you go within the command structures, the more resistance to ANY change will be found. Military Command structures are one of THE very most conservative structures: they resist change strongly and will cling to any reason to resist change. This applies to the Organizational Structure, not necessarily to the individuals within that structure.

I fully understand the problems that you entail with a mixed unit in a barracks/garrison situation and that it is different in the field. You state that you cannot place the gays in with the other men, as that may seem unfair to the straight men, however, many gays have a steady partner and are thus not interested in other men, and for most gays straights won't be giving the signals they are looking for. If you DO end up with some fool that is hitting on the straights, making unwanted physical contact and/or masturbates in front of or at the other men, then that individual has Personal Problems and is Not the type you will want in the military to begin with: No Respect. The UCMJ has ready recourse for this type of person. You cannot go putting the gay men in with the Women, that would cause a furor too, likewise trying to put gays with lesbians, not gonna work either. So, you leave them with the rest of the men, Just Like They Are Now, and deal with any behavioral problems as they happen, same as now. Same with the lesbians or bi's, until they become a behavioral problem, individually, leave them where they are presently. Remember, people used to think that Black Soldiers would ruin the Military, you could not integrate the units or there would be "troubles, scandalous troubles with forcing whites to serve side by side with the inferior negros," or like when women first started serving, all the problems that were forecast about that...now, we look back on that and have to laugh, the only ones who have problems are the already prejudiced, and many get over their prejudice IN the Military, I am sure that you have seen this happen, both racially and sexually, in your time in service: the people that they are serving with bear no resemblance to the stories that made them prejudiced in the first place, and so they learn that their prejudice was wrong. Some never get over it, sadly. But you cannot go holding up those few as the reason for not repealing DADT Now. In any case, the command structures in the military have changed before, and will just have to adapt to a slightly new situation: The recognition of the GLBTs that are Already in the military, and how to deal with them under the UCMJ (which would need some minor tweaking, making it more in line with Civilian law where it regards sexual contact between two consenting adults, as per the Supreme Court decision about sodomy etc.)

So, instead of any real physical changes, it would take, instead, an attitude change amongst those within the command structure and should be taken as a challenge of your command abilities, rather than a threat to the perceived manhood of those in command. If you try to segregate the GLBTs then you are not really integrating them, they become a Special Case, and as you well know, this can lead to feelings of distrust and of special treatment. So, do not try to segregate them, leave them where they presently are, and deal with the behavioral problems of those so immature enough that they cannot work within the social setting of the military on an individual basis, just like you do presently with those that break the regs, and get caught, for sexual misconduct or drug offenses now. The main difference will be that you do not have to discharge otherwise good soldiers just because they have become known, officially, to be GLBT. And instead of those GLBTs having to hide their sexual preference, and feel ashamed for doing so, you will have soldiers with less stress problems and happier overall that they do not have to hide their preferences. For those that are, personally, prejudiced, if their prejudice interferes with Unit Readiness then THEY can be removed under the UCMJ for discrimination, if it does not interfere, then they can be talked to and will just have to deal with it, and possibly learn and change their attitudes, Just like they had to do for Blacks and Women in the Military for prior generations.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions about my viewpoint on this. I did not mean to be at all insulting earlier. I will admit, I get a bit defensive on this Blog, mostly because we have so many that do not actually understand reasonable discourse. I do not mind that someone disagrees with me, but I do like to see logical statements, preferably with facts, instead of plain 2nd and 3rd hand ranting and name calling based on political stripe. I actually ENJOY talking with some folks who hold a different opinion than mine, sometimes I learn things (if nothing more than patience some days, lol) and sometimes I am able to teach someone something too. By sharing differing opinions we all gain, if things are kept civil and we respect each other. The best case scenario is both sides learn that they are not really that far apart and that there are more good ideas when you have more than one opinion looking at any given situation, but again, respect is the key there, sadly missing in the House and Senate right now, but Government works best when Everybody brings their best ideas to the table, and so do these Blogs!

I also wanted to Thank You for your Service UNA_Lion, there are a lot of us Vets here, some of us disabled, like myself, USN DAV (Ret) and Terry, and some others still serving as well, and the great majority of us Still hold to Protecting The Constitution of The United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the best of our abilities, and I am glad to number you amongst us!

B Honest:

That arguement that GLBT should be held up in the same way as Civil Rights is ludicrous. This is a Democrap talking point to which is only diluting the Civil Rights struggle. Civil Rights was about a PEOPLE.....GLBT rights is about a lifestyle.

I can tell you as a former First Sergeant, I would have a problem with the repeal but I would follow orders. I believe they will be segregated so that good order and discipline will be maintained.

I'm glad I am retired and don't have to deal with this problem. Civilian society look at the military and think we live the same little cozy lives as everyone else, we don't.

As far as what other countries do with this matter is of no concern to commanders in the military. They can do whatever they feel but the U.S. should not do things just for the sake of other countries feelings.

ITM,

May G-d Help you if one of your children 'decides' to be gay. Your narrow vantage point is never as painful as this bigotry on display here.

Good luck to your children, they surely need it with such a hard@ss parent as you.

Clara,

All three of my boys are successful and they all LOVE WOMEN. We don't have any .......ts in the family. They are in my extended family but not in my house. You can call me a bigot all you want but I will not change, and that is a fact jack. This is the reason I was successful in the military because I stood on my word and I was a str8 shooter. I wasn't one way today and another tomorrow. All of my soldiers knew my decision on matters before even talking to me. That is called good order and discipline. Something you obviously know nothing about........

Kick Rocks....feel sorry for yourself.

So you are saying that you think that your boys could all choose the "lifestyle" of being gay if they were mentally strong enough to do so? Because sexuality is a lifestyle CHOICE? Or are you saying that they are too weakminded to be able to change their minds about their first choice to love women? Or are you now saying that their loving women was not a choice at all? Didn't nature make that choice for them?

Paul:

You raise yours the way you want to and I'll raise mine my way.

My kids love WOMEN. What about that do you not understand. That lifestyle is not on their agenda. If so it would have came out by now. WTF you mean by weakminded? I curse and carry-on at times but my kids were brought up in the church and they understand about Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve.

Poof..be gone..

No one expects you to change ITM,...you're as predictable as the sun rise in the East. Every time you post you remind us all what a landing with a closed parachute looks and sounds like.

Kick rocks yourself; big 'bad' Texan. You might not like the label 'bigot' but you sure have earned it!

ITM, The only reason that you made a career in the military is because you do not have an original thought in your body. It is soooo much easier for you to just follow orders, don't think, and kowtow to the heavily Republican Christian set in the command structure. And have everything provided for you by the Public. No wonder you are clueless about civilian life!

You obviously have no clue as to what the GLBTs go through, even though they were as good as you or Better in the Military, is that what hurts you so much to make you so angry? The GLBT issue IS a Civil Rights problem, it pertains to the Civil Rights of a sector of our populace that is nearly as big as some other minority groups, and spans all of them. To say that it does not equate to Civil Rights is a Big, Blatant LIE. So get off of your high horse and gain some feeling and respect for your fellow humans who can, and did and DO the same job as you, as competently as you yet they do Not have the same freedom that you do, to let it be known, publicly, that you are GLBT and have a same sex partner. An extremely petty reason to be so angry and petulant, like a spoiled child!

You are raising, or raised, your children to be as big of a set of bigots as yourself, and Should be ashamed of yourself. You disrespect Christ who told us to Love One Another, he did not specify Only Men Shall Love Women, he was MUCH smarter than that. All You can preach is Hate, all you write here is Hate, and all you have in your soul is Hate, and that is what you will carry into your afterlife, is Hate, and will be regretful everafter!

Be Gone Yerself, Idiot, You are a Disgrace to what America stands for!!

B Honest:

Man your are a serious driveler. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not the one for your weak azz to F with. Just because you raise a bunch of little weak punks doesn't mean everyone else does.

I don't preach, I put it out there and you can accept it or reject it. I promise I won't lose any sleep because of your opinion.

GLBT does not equate to Civil Rights. What the hell do you know about Civil Rights struggles? You caucasions kill me with "I understand and I'm sorry for the plight you went through". you don't know sh!t. I have not seen any Gays as a group get waterhoses sprayed on them, dogs biting them, getting hit upside the head by the police, drinking from a different water fountain, etc......

That does not stand up to the Civil Rights threshold. I can tell you this, most blacks do not agree with you on this issue. I have plenty of Democrats in my family and none of them think it is destiny to be gay.

BTW: I am an educated blackman that has had a successful life. Something that frightens the sh!t out of you. I did not have to join the military because of economic reasons nor because I was uneducated. Your not dealing with just a dumb azz n...r, so I suggest you refrain from labeling someone as such because you don't like the way they spew the knowledge.

I'm through dealing with you simple .............

ITM,

Whether not not YOU think the GLBT issue is Civil Rights or not, it still is. No, it does not have the harsh history of the blacks issues, but police certainly have busted up many a gay bar and violence does happen to them on a daily basis now: drug behind cars, strung up on barbwire fences, beat up etc. because of their differences. Just because the color of their skin is not self evident does not mean that this is not a Civil Rights Issue, it has to do with EQUALITY FOR ALL, and that is EXACTLY what the Civil Rights Movement was about. Just because you finally have the Civil Rights that you should have had all along does not give you the right to deny them to others. What do YOU actually know about their struggles??

I grew up very poor, Irish/German/Polish background, and watched my dad forced into Wage Slavery. What do I know about it, My family, the Irish side, started as Indentured slaves from the poor house, they were caught in the Potato Famine and lost everything, and instead of going to Debtor's Prison, they were shipped to the US as Indentured Slave Labor to pay off their debts and the cost of shipping them here. Luckily, the Indenture was bought by a farmer who allowed my ancestors to work of the debt instead of keeping them tied to their farm, like so many did, and it took them 30 years to pay that off, 2 generations. At the time there was very little difference between the Slavery of Blacks and that of the Indentured...read about it sometimes, the Irish were often treated worse than blacks in some cases because they were cheaper than black labor. Was it fair to anyone, those days, No, it was not, but it is part of our shared history of abuse against those least able to defend against it. You seem to forget that at most of those Civil Rights Movement Rallies, where the police and others went postal, that there WERE whites and others right alongside of you, getting the same treatment for being 'traitors'. You should go and study more history without your blinders on.

I applaud you being successful, I wish that for everybody, and no, it does not scare me one bit. I actually wish you the best. I am glad that you were not forced into the military.

With that all said, I still find your stances on many subjects to be plain amazingly short on thought and Fact. I see you mostly just bashing others here and not actually bringing anything pertinent to the discussions, mostly just name calling and baiting. That is why I say you are only filled with hate, I see little of what you have to say as being constructive. And THAT is why I called you out, not racism, I had no idea you were black, it makes NO difference to me whatsoever.

And I would NEVER EVER call someone racist label names, that just disgusts me. I am Not at all racist,never have been and have called out folks for their racism on all sides, white, black, hispanic, asian etc. when they start spouting junk and ignorance. I have even had black folks try to tell me that blacks cannot be racist! Anyone, of any color can be racist. The way you are treating me now I consider racist, with you thinking I am calling you a Dumb Azz .........! I never cared about what race you are, not important to me. Sad to have to fall back to that line, just like the Israelis saying all criticism of Israel is Anti-Semetic....when it is no such thing.

I wish you a great day, and hope that what I have said sparks some thought in you other than long held hate.

Kevin, Eloquently put, Thank You...Voted.

Personally, I knew when I signed that piece of paper to enlist, that I was giving my Government the right to send me out to get my A@@ shot off. When I swore to defend the Constitution from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic I knew that I would lay down my life for those principles. Yeah, it scared me some, but you are right, I was becoming a part of what had protected America for two hundred years plus, and the Honor of being Able to serve was tremendous.

For those of the GLBT crowd, who have to deny their inner selves in order to do the same makes the sacrifices I made seem a pittance in comparison, they were wounded just by joining, and that wound torn at daily, just to keep serving. THAT is REAL Bravery that even your hardest Marine would have troubles facing. DADT is a severe stain on the Honor of this Nation's Military and MUST be repealed in order for the Military to be redeemed!

Well said, Kevin.

Anybody who lays their life on the line for this country should not have to lie about their sexual orientation. I agree, how does it serve the military to ignore or exempt themselves from the constitution of the country they serve and defend. The tea people should be dressed up in their founding fathers costumes rallying against this trampling of the constitution. It is just stupid that everybody acknowledges that there are gays in the military, and have always been, but we have an official policy of pretending it is not so. How about applying DADT to the oil spill, problem solved pretend there is no oil spill, How about the drug problem in this counrty, oh don't ask me, or tell me about it I'm pretending there are no illegal drugs in the US. DADT can solve all our problems. How stupid, unfair, and hypocrital are we?

Coolhand,

Your version of "Morality" is greatly overrated.

A large number of the GLBT crowd actually DO serve with Honor, Courage, Commitment and meet Higher Standard than most who serve, and I do NOT think that those who are serving now would give up any shred of their professionalism should DADT be finally repealed: They have too much invested in the Military, just like anyone else serving. And btw, they have started letting women serve on Fast attacks and Boomers both, so that sorta sinks That argument. (pun intended)

Your homophobia will not let you see the basic unfairness of this law, you are basically recycling the reasons that were used to try to keep Blacks and Women out of the military, and they have failed, twice, and very badly I must say, and it is failing again. Third Strike, Your Outta There!!

Considering that these people are ALREADY SERVING, changing the law in response to basic, moral fairness is the very least we can do for these dedicated, brave individuals who have entered a hostile environment just so they can Serve our Nation just like you or I did, why should their sexual preference make any difference at all?? Just because there are bigots in the military does NOT mean we have to all see it your way. Grow up, get a life, one that is not a pressurized steel bubble that shields you from reality. We are talking about Real People who are being badly disrespected, even if their military bearing, honor, dedication and courage match the best, they are still considered second class for a petty reason...Your Bigotry!

@COOLHAND -- your answer contains the answer. Gays are just like Texans, they keep their mannerisms in check when they have to do a job. Lifting the ban is not to allow them to wear pink scarves for corn's sakes, it's to NOT MAKE THE MILITARY FIRE THEM. This impacts thousands of lives, when dedicated soldiers, Arab linguists, and operatives are being fired simply because someone told a superior that the phone call home they made was to someone of the same sex. DADT is shameful and ruins the lives of American soldiers who are putting their lives and families on the line to serve the country. that *should* be reason enough to change it.

USAFVET

I have covered the living space thing above in my posts, Basically leave it as it is now, they are already there and creating new divisions within the commands could lead to feelings of unfairness or special treatment, either one. Best to just treat behavioral problems as they arise (so to speak), just like now.

As for the other questions:

2. I would assume that legally they would have to be given the same status as a married hetero couple, base housing and the like IF and ONLY IF it was a Legally Recognized Civil Union or Marriage.

3. There would be no increased chance of AIDS from what you see now, GLBTs are already in service, as you state, and blood testing is given fairly regularly to track AIDS and other STDs as well as localized pathogenic infections like malaria, dengue fever, various influenzas, etc. So no change there.

Gay bashing would be an UCMJ offense, just like any other discriminatory actions.

And as a gay friend once told me: "There are GLBT folks and then there are plain flaming faggots, and NOBODY appreciates the flamers. They tend to be primadonna attention hounds and so even dislike others like themselves who may be 'cutting into Their territory'" So that could be handled by counseling or if that does not work, then dismissal on the grounds of Not Suitable for Military Service. It would tend to be self correcting. Also, political movements, such as the gay rights movement etc. are forbidden to Uniformed Military, one can quietly support such a movement, but to be politically active or vocal with it is forbidden.

And it is wrong to think of the change as going to a "Gay Military", because it would not be, it would be the exact same military with the only difference being that the GLBTs could serve openly, instead of having to deny what they are and lie by omission, daily, in order to Serve, as they do now.

Please note, I am Very Straight but am not at all prejudiced against GLBTs (except maybe the occasional irritating 'flamer', lol), nor am I racist. GLBTs, various races and women all make up the military now, we just need to allow the GLBTs the chance to serve openly and to be treated with all due respect for the PEOPLE that they are, for the SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN and MARINES that they are, now.

And Thank You for Serving USAFVET, your long service for this Nation is greatly appreciated!!

Juven, for once you are right, most other militaries, especially European ones, accept GLBTs openly and no, they do NOT have a problem with them in general, they are serving even now in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the world. They just do not make a big thing of it, and I applaud them. Here we have the old Salem Witchburners and Puritains still trying to keep us on a "Moral High Road" and the world sees us as scraping the bottom morally. It is sad, the GLBTs just want to be able to do the same as any other American, do their Duty in Service to this Nation and be recognized, not as GLBT, but as the outstanding, dedicated Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines that they are. They are already there, why not just accept them as they are?

I was not trying to put you down Juven, I disagree with you most of the time, but you are absolutely correct here!! It gives me Some faith in humanity!

I can't believe I'm saying this, but you hit this one right on the head, Juven.

Well done. On this one, and I can't believe that I'm going to do this, but you got my vote. You earned this one.

You don't hear about it because they don't have a problem, they accept gays, and are honest about it.

We have a problem because we know it is wrong, and the official DADT policy is counter to our Constitution, and the notion of duty, honor, and country that the military promotes. The official policy requires people to lie, that is a big clue that the policy is ridiculous.

Actually Coolhand, I Was in the Navy and I served on a Sub Tender, I blew out two discs between my shoulderblades in the first year on board, and served another two years on the same ship after that. I knew several gays on board ship, most of them you would never have known it, there were only a couple of flamers and they did not last long in the military. I did work in every conceivable space on board some of those subs that we repaired/replenished. It concerns me because they are out there NOW fighting in our wars, doing their Duty by Serving this Nation and they deserve the same rights as the rest of us: to be open about who they love and/or their sexual preference, and to not be fired over it!

No, I am not gay, I am very straight as I enjoy women so much that I was never even tempted to check out 'that side of the fence', but I have never treated GLBTs as second rate citizens, anywhere. I Do know of what I am talking, not just read someone's talking points and went along with them, I have Been There and Done That as far as my military time, and am socially astute as well.

Coolhand, I was in 81-84, served on the USS Proteus over in Guam and the PI. Yes, I was out long before DADT happened.

I feel that very little really needs to be changed, other than recognizing these people for what they are aside from their sexual preference. Bias based on sexual pref is no better than bias for skin color or sex. The people are there already, why make them lie to keep their jobs, where they are doing their Duty as well?? That is my main point.

Coolhand

I realized that I should have thanked you for your service long before this, I apologize for not doing so previously.

It is people like you, who have served long term in our military, doing their duty day in and day out for such a long time, that is the core of competence within the military. I Thank You profusely for your Service, you were a part of what has kept America Safe so that we are ABLE to have such discourse on blogs like this, and the rest of our freedoms. You and the rest of us who have served, and the many of us that bought a small piece of the farm, are what has kept America Free to be what we are!

Thank You Again, Coolhand, we may disagree on things, but we are all Americans, and THAT is what counts most!!

You're just sick.

If gays are "hiding' their gayness while serving, then you are taking showers with gays who are checking out your "Gear", whether you know it or not. I suspect there is a lot going on that you are also unaware of.

They don't "DECIDE" to be gay. 'IntheMiddle, Tex-ass' and you are prime examples of what is wrong with too large a percentage of the "patriots" who "serve" in our military.

Heterosexuality is no more a choice you made for yourself than gayness is for the homosexual. When did you choose between the two? You didn't. They didn't either.

"shouldn't have to think."???????? You should always have to think, keep trying.