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Subscribe to RSSRNC chairman Michael Steele's open-mouth-insert-foot comments on the war in Afghanistan was fodder for the liberal blogs today, and it even has some notable critics on the right calling for his resignation. And today's dismal jobs numbers are ample fodder for conservatives before the holiday weekend begins.
The DNC released a clip of Steele at a fundraiser in which he calls the Afghanistan war "of Obama's choosing. This was not something the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in.
"If he's such a student of history has he not understood that, you know, that's the one thing you don't do is engage in a land war in Afghanistan? Because everyone who's tried, over a thousand years of history has failed," Steele continued.
After a barrage of criticism from the left and right, the RNC released a statement in which Steele seemed to try to explain his comment: “As we have learned throughout history, winning a war in Afghanistan is a difficult task. We must also remember that after the tragedy of September 11, 2001, it is also a necessary one. That is why I supported the decision to increase our troop force and, like the entire United States Senate, I support General Petraeus’ confirmation. The stakes are too high for us to accept anything but success in Afghanistan.”
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis played on Steele's words. "Student of history lesson 1: Bush got us into Afghanistan. Student of history lesson 2: We didn't go in by our choosing. Al Qaeda planned the 9/11 attack from there, and then the Taliban protected them. This is just bizarre," he wrote.
Later, Aravosis simply posted a clip of the musical Avenue Q's song, "It Sucks to Be Me."
With a heavy dose of sarcasm, Balloon Juice's mistermix wrote, "Everyone knows that there was no land war in Afghanistan until 2009. Since Saddam paid for Al Qaeda’s attack on 9/11, it’s always puzzled me what Obama was doing attacking that other place."
Washington Monthly's Steve Benen excerpted RNC spokesperson Doug Heye's own explanation of Steele's words: "The responsibility for building and maintaining that strategy falls squarely on the shoulders of the President. Like so many Americans, Chairman Steele wants to hear an explanation from President Obama on what his strategy is for winning the war in Afghanistan. The Petraeus hearings were an opportunity -- a missed opportunity -- to do that. Instead, all we hear from the President is criticism of his predecessor for doing exactly the same thing.
"At the same time, Congress must stop playing politics with the war and provide the funding our troops need to win and come home."
But, Benen found, "Listening to Steele, and then reading Heye, it's hard not to notice that one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. (And given Republicans voting against funding the troops, Heye's conclusion seems rather ironic.)"
He asks some questions of Heye:
* "Steele said the war in Afghanistan is 'of Obama's choosing.' In light of reality, and the fact that the war began nearly nine years ago, what does that mean?
* Steele said the war in Afghanistan 'was not something that the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in.' Given the events since 2001, what does that mean?
* Steele said he considers it a mistake to 'engage in a land war in Afghanistan.' Does that mean he supports withdrawal? When did he reach this conclusion? Why has Steele previously suggested the exact opposite? Does he believe all of the members of his party who believe the opposite are misguided?
* Steele said there are 'ways to engage in Afghanistan without committing U.S. troops.' Can the RNC name some of the alternatives Republicans would support?
On the right, leading conservative columnist Bill Kristol called for Steele to resign as "an act of service for the country you love."
More: "At a time when Gen. Petraeus has just taken over command, when Republicans in Congress are pushing for a clean war funding resolution, when Republicans around the country are doing their best to rally their fellow citizens behind the mission, your comment is more than an embarrassment. It’s an affront, both to the honor of the Republican party and to the commitment of the soldiers fighting to accomplish the mission they’ve been asked to take on by our elected leaders."
And more: "There are, of course, those who think we should pull out of Afghanistan, and they’re certainly entitled to make their case. But one of them shouldn't be the chairman of the Republican party."
Red State's Erick Erickson joins the chorus of conservatives calling for Steele's resignation: "I have heard Michael Steele’s comments regarding Afghanistan and the President. I have read the RNC’s statement on the matter. The RNC statement is indecipherable in the context of what Michael Steele actually said. The war in Afghanistan is not a war of Barack Obama’s choosing. It is a war of Al Qaeda and the Taliban’s choosing. We responded," he wrote.
"Michael Steele must resign. He has lost all moral authority to lead the GOP," he concluded.
On the jobs report, Hot Air's Ed Morrissey ridiculed what he characterized as Obama's attempt to squeeze good news out of today's announcement of a 125,000-job drop in employment, which reminded him of Chip Diller, the iconic "all is well! all is well!" character in Animal House.
Morrissey wrote, "Don’t worry, Obama told the cameras; we’re heading in the right direction! In that sense, Obama may remind viewers of another famous declaration that people should remain calm."
More, on Obama's specific policy announcement today: "How unserious was this announcement? Obama used it to launch his broadband initiative, which will cost almost $800 million and which will create … five thousand jobs. That’s $160,000 per job, but that’s not the most ridiculous calculation in this announcement. In the past month, we had over 650,000 people leave the work force, which is around 130 times the number of jobs Obama offered as a tonic for this month’s report.
And notice that President Chip Diller never mentions that factory orders fell off for the first time in nine months, back to a low not seen since shortly after Obama’s stimulus plan passed. How’s that for 'the right direction?'"
NRO's Jim Geraghty also lambasted the "right direction" concept, citing a "jarring" statistic: the amount of unemployed people no longer searching for a job. "In June 2009, the unemployment rate was 9.5 percent, just as it was in June 2010. However, a year ago, the civilian labor force was 154,759,000, and now it is 153,741,000," he pointed out.
"In other words, 1.018 million people have dropped out of the labor force. The good news is that the country will be back to a relatively normal jobless rate of 6 percent once another 5.39 million of the unemployed stop looking for work. Naturally, President Obama cites the report as another sign “we’re headed in the right direction," he concluded.
Red State's Moe Lane noted that while 225,000 census jobs came to an end this month, which contributed to the overall decline in payroll employment, May's 431,000-job gain was also census driven.
"We’re just at the end of that particular necessary, but strictly limited, exercise in government spending. So, how is that Keynesian economics thing working out for people, anyway? - Because where I’m sitting it seems to be roughly equivalent right now to revving the engine when the car’s set to neutral," he commented.
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Palin-Steele (or, Steele-Palin, your choice) 2012!!
He's the gift that just keeps on giving...
This guy is so stupid, jus tlike most republicans and teabaggers...George Bush and Dick Cheney started the war in Afghanistan...abandoned it to fight a voluntary war in Iraq and now we are finally doing somehting about the SOB's that attacked us on 911...you know the worst attack on US soil ever while a republican was president...remember dummies?
Is this the way to re-write history? Or did I just wake up from a 9 year dream and I am talking to Bobby in the shower about the dream I had!! Michael Steele the gift that keeps on giving. Lets hope he stays in his position.
Hey, JoAnnaSmith or In The Middle, TX- either of you two bean-bags wanna weigh in on this? It's late afternoon, and some of us need a good funny-bone massage.
It's now Saturday morning and still nothing out of the two mental midgets! LOL
Guess they're too busy playing in the litter box!
Sorry you didn't get that massage yet dive-By!
If the unemployment rate drops below 9% and is trending downwards in October, the democrats will keep control of both houses, if it's above 9% and the economy isn't producing 150, 000+ private sector jobs...
You have to appreciate Bill Kristol's letter to Steele asking him to resign. This might be the quote of the week: to be told that his resignatrion would be "an act of service to his country..." When your own turn on you you know you have blown it. A shallow bag and he was at the bottom. Let's hope he runs with Palin for 2012.
I have to admit, it IS interesting to watch the Repub party committing Harakiri all so publicly. Barton, Boehner and Steele are all so fast to attack President Obama that they somehow forget to get any facts before they open their mouths. Add Jindal to the mix as well as all of the Used Teabag party that are advocating a "2nd Amendment Solution" if they do not win in the mid-term election, and like getting rid of Social Security will gain them LOTS of votes from the Senior Crowd!
Gotta love em, they are doing our campaigning for us, in bright, vibrant living color!
Another "act of service to his country" would be for Bill Kristol to apologize to the American people for encouraging McCain to select Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008.
Talk about your "Christmas in July".
To the Democrats in office that are up for re-election and those that are running for the Senate AND Congress, DEFINATELY CONSIDER THIS AS YOUR "MARCHING ORDERS". You are to push for everything you can possibly get passed right after the Independence Holiday. If there was a time for you ladies and gentlemen to start going on the offensive, IT IS NOW!!!
President Obama, I want you to keep up the good work that you are doing right now, and I want you to extend your lead, and any and every Executive Order you can think of to get this country back on track, I want it signed AND emplemented POST HASTE!!
Already, things are starting to turn around. More and more people are becoming IN FAVOR of Health Care Reform, DADT is in the process of being RE-PEALED, Finance Reform passed the House, Iran has the strictest sanctions about to be in place, Russia has signed a new nuclear weapons treaty with us AS WELL as going along with the sanctions against Iran and North Korea, we got the world to agree with us on a Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Act, Obama's Afghanistan War Strategy has made some big dividens by capturing and killing two top Al-Qeada Commanders, and although it doesn't look like much, unemployment and the economy are starting to show turns for the better.
Mr. Steele, your remark is the equivalent of you spitting in the face of every man and woman that has had the priviledge of serving in the armed forces of this great nation of ours, it dishonors the ultimate sacrifices paid by these warriors, and if ever there was a clear case of political treason committed by the Republican Party, this is it.
9/11 happened but it didn't happen the way we were told and the way most unquestioningly accepted. Many people do not know that a third building, WTC 7, fell on 9/11. WTC 7 was a 47 story building about the width and length of a football field. WTC 7 was not hit by a plane and yet fell down at near free fall. NIST, who was charged with explaining why WTC 7 fell, claims that WTC7 came down due to fire damage but they admit there was a period of 2.25 seconds when the building was in free fall. Free fall of 2.25 seconds translates to about 100 feet or 8 stories. The collapse was symmetrical. This means the resisting structure on each floor was removed simultaneously floor by floor for eight stories. The 58 perimeter columns and 25 massive core columns that should have provided resistance to the falling mass provided absolutely none at all during that period. Since we know that normal office fires causes gradual weakening of steel not explosive removal, NIST's explanation violates the (conservation) laws of physics and is therefore false. The US went to Afghanistan and Iraq because of a crackpot conspiracy theory that violates the laws of physics.
Not to mention that three "news" agencies reported that the building, WTC7 the Salomon building, owned by Larry Silverstein new lease holder on the rest of the WTC complex, had collapsed 20 minutes before the actual "collapse" took place. It seems they got the "press release" a little early and didn't want to get scooped. But save your breath Stu, most of the political junkies here just don't want to hear it. They would rather argue partisan politics and refute talking points about who is responsible for what manufactured crisis, than accept that they are all being played for fools by both political parties.
You sir are an idiot!!
How so? Please enlighten us as to how what I wrote was wrong in any factual way.
No-one even listens to that old fool anymore ! Just a shame the 2 party's no longer work for the people! Its all pandering to big business selling ones sole for a few $$$$$ .Forgetting what their purpose for running was ... Its just sad
Don't resign Mr. Steele, the Republicans need their token black to balance the President and an idiot to help the Democrats stay in power. So keep it up we need you.
Kevin, I do agree that steele's comments should be in every commercial, but I doubt the dems will have the cahones to use it. They have overlooked every gift before such as inohofe saying that gitmo prisoners have better healthcare than middle America(even though that is true). as john kerry and michael dukakis say they prefer to stay above the fray. of course both of them are losers.
I have been vindicated...at least according to Paul Krugman(I realize conservatives hate the man).
stimulus...inadequate the money should have gone to American families to spend and not banks to hoarde
Every American family 12,000- 175,000(I don't know you decide the numbers) should have received an 18,000 stimulus check with orders to spend. Don't tell me there's no money we are financing two wars right now and keeping their governments afloat. get the hell out and there's your savings right there.
LOWER the retirement age to 60(not mandatory) and put these young kids to work. We fell for the lie from big business about continuing to work in your "golden" years. They just want to save money on retraining. At the very worst you have a wash because new hires will still be paying FICA, but I see it really helping the situation.
REAL HCR- a national plan would save private industries billions.
Hey Champ, why does the Texas legislature hate us so much? We don't even have a real union.
Will some reporter actually call jindal piyush please?????????????????????????????????????He's been on cnn so much I thought he was an I reporter.
day 278(exxageration) my Gulf still burns and we still do not have national healthcare
It is easier to play ignor those of us actually looking at the collective data and drawing obvious conclusions. If they actually did look and admit both parties involvement, nothing could remain the same.
Steele SHOULD step down, but not for this. The missteps he's made in the last year and a half showed he wasn't ready for the job. But to those of you crowing about how he helps Democrats, the average American doesn't really care what dumb things the head of the RNC may be saying when the economy is in its present state. How is featuring Steele in commercials going to help Democrats? If you've been out of work for a long time, do you really care what Steele is saying or do you care a little more about finding work?
I definitely pay attention to the news when I hear that someone is cutting My benefits, and since it is the Repubs that continuously block any and everything that Might help normal, living breathing people rather than corporations. In fact, the Repubs seem to be a LOT more interested in causing pain for normal Americans so that the problems facing America look like Democrat problems, However, since the Repubs are being so very blatant with their scorn of anything that is not corporate it makes things Much easier for the Dems right now. The Repubs are so busy imploding and destroying their own credibility, that all the Dems need to do is stand back and watch things unfold. The Repubs are totally destroying themselves as a power base: They have lost any and all right to try to lead America since all they have done is work to put Americans into a slave labor relationship with the Corporations...and Americans are watching and judging, and come Election day, this mid-term election, the Repubs are going to see the fruits of their lack of labor: They will have to join the lines of the Jobless come November!
AMEN!!!!!
I agree.
Hope everyone had a spectacular 4th!
Looks like our gracious hosts/moderators are also enjoying a 3 day weekend! I read Paul Krugmans op-ed this morning on 'The Coalition of the Heartless - Clueless & Confused' and it's definitely worth sharing!
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/opinion/index.html
The title certainly says it all...
Paul Krugman certainly does say it all, and very correctly. The Repubs are committing hara kiri, very blatantly telling everyone who they serve, trying to rewrite history and putting down the very workers that have made America Great! They are destroying themselves while they try to bring America down so that they can try to regain their power again, and, sadly, we can all see this, all except those already blinded to what America really IS, not what they would like it to be.
Since a great majority of Americans are seeing that the Repubs have NO intention of helping them, and in fact have been insulting them, while they form up at the unemployment office, the Repubs are going to lose several seats in Congress and the Senate, and the Used Teabags are going to lose seats for them too, they already have cost several Repubs their chance at some seats of Government.
The blindness and heartlessness of the Repubs keeps turning more and more people away from them all the time, they cannot stomach what the Repub Party has become. They may not be Dems, but they certainly will NOT vote for the Repubs again, not now, if ever. I keep talking to people who have left the Repub party and why they have, and it keeps coming down to the fact that the Repubs have REFUSED to work with the Dems on any and all programs that would actually HELP people, rather than Corporations. If a bill is set to help Corporations avoid taxes of regulation, then the Repubs are all for it, but any bill that helps living, breathing Americans to survive the fallout of the worst recession in 100 years, then the Repubs refuse to budge an inch and vote NO resoundingly...time and time again...and True Americans, the ones who can vote and have learned to ignore advertising will resoundingly vote those that have caused their problems, and refused to help anyone aside from the corporations to get out of it, out of office and out of power for a very, very long time, if they ever even recover from such a resounding defeat.
Maybe, just Maybe, after this election cycle is over, the Dems will be able to help Americans unhindered by the lack of 60 votes to overturn a filibuster threat from the Repubs, and will get this Nation back on track again! I can only hope, pray and VOTE come November!!
The oddest thing going on politically is the MSM's complicity in telling the populace that the Minority party in the Senate is holding up legislation using the FILIBUSTER! This is a bald-faced-lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone roll your eyes now and confirm that you have been successfully BRAINWASHED. I would have no problem with the filibuster if the MINORITY were actually employing it, but they are not. They are making use of Senate Rule 22. So why is it that the mainstream media won't highlight the difference between the two, why would they continue to call a legislative manuever something that it is not? Could it be that they don't want you to recognize that they have been lying to you about it since 1984? The filibuster is only supposed to DELAY a vote, it is not supposed to have any ability to shelve a bill indefinitely. Not acknowledging that distinction if you are a political reporter is something tantamount to referring to the Kennedy assassination as an orderly transfer of power.
Krugman is too optimistic. Enlightening the "confused" is a waste of time. They prefer confusion.
Honestly, to say that Republicans don't want to help the American people is hooey. What benefits are they cutting? If you're talking about extending unemployment benefits, you're not paying attention. They would have passed the latest measure had it not been loaded up with additional non-essential spending.The Democrats wouldn't vote on a clean bill.
I don't personally think the Democrats and the Administration are intentionally harming the people either. I think they are just too ideological and stubborn to know any different. They say they try to work with the Republicans, but in fact ignore and belittle every idea or concern. Working together does not mean caving to Democrats demands.
The facts are: businesses are not hiring, they are not expanding. They are deer in the headlights, scared and worried over how new legislation coming out of the President and Congress will effect them. No one knows. No one reads the bills. You have to admit, the Obama Administration is not business friendly.
Until there is clarity and a better business environment many, many American families are going to suffer. The Democrats have control of that right now. They could change the business environment if they wanted to. Maybe they want to keep American's suffering. The President certainly doesn't seem to care much about the needs of working families. He keeps telling them to just be patient....while they lose their jobs, their savings and their homes.
The Republicans lost their way, true. And there's plenty of ying-yangs that make up the Republican "leadership." They need to go, for sure. The Republicans messed up and that's why the Dems took control of Congress in 2007. It's the Democrats gig now. They are the ones who are heartless and blind, in my opinion.
Republicans, the Re-peat-the-lie-to-the-PUBLIC-ans, do want to help Americans. The problem is that they only want to help about 5% of the Americans and fool 46% of the rest of them into voting for them and with them.
That might be about right. See, then the 5% employs the 46% and everyone can provide for themselves. Everybody wins!
(Re-peat-the-lie-to-the-PUBLIC-ans....! Very clever!)
Exactly Candice... thanks for pointing out to all of us that in 2010 you still have the 'owners' & the 'slaves"...
Ahhh... the great 'white 'way... Oops... I mean the great Republican way!
You know... the Haves and the Have Not's?
For the life of me... I can't comprehend the righties attitude...
What are you saying? That because a person has a job that makes them a slave? I know you work. Are you a slave and your employer a master? I wouldn't think someone as feisty as you would allow that to be.
I think most people would prefer to have a job, or better yet a career. Can't do that without an employer.
I actually prefer a scenario of the "Haves and Have too's". A kind of a "teach a man to fish" philosophy over dependency and entitlement. I think, deep down, most would agree. Wouldn't you?
You seem often to go off the extreme end. For the life of me...I can't comprehend the lefties attitude.
Candace, Bartlett, You said;
"Working together does not mean caving to Democrats demands". That might be right, but working together does not mean caving to Republican demands either. I am sure there had to be some instances where the Republicans could have voted with the Democrats but chose not to in order to make this administration and the dem party look bad also.
Politics is a dirty game from my viewpoint and it gets even worse when the innocent American public gets caught in the middle of it. It is demeaning to the public and all politicians that engage in such activity should be voted out of office and I plan to make my vote count again this election cycle.
I totally agree. I long for the day the Presidential candidate who promises to unite both sides of the aisle, actually does. And the work for the American people actually gets done. I've seen many instances, as you probably have, when the Republicans seemed to choose the polar opposite for mere political gain --- some aspects of the healthcare bill for example.
I'm glad that you plan to make your vote count. Good for you! That seems to be the growing trend in the country. That's a good thing.
Candace
Most of the people on these "Entitlements" as you put it, would MUCH rather actually have a job rather than depending on 60% of the income from their last job. In most cases those same people were barely covering their bills at full wages, at 60% they have to decide whether they pay the rent, power bill or buy food for the table this week. There are people who had decent paying jobs that can no longer pay their mortgages and are being tossed wit their families out of their homes, whether they were mostly paid off or not. You try living on nothing more than foodstamps and try to find a place you can live on the street...it is NOT at all easy, and I have been there due to severe health reasons, and Then to be tossed out of a house, with NO way to work. Those "Entitlements" which we all pay for when we can work as part of the Employer taxes, Unemployment being one of them, which comes off from your base pay...and YOU are saying that those people do not have a right to the money that they paid while they were working, now that they cannot??
With five people available for every job opening, there are not enough jobs out there for everyone, so SOMETHING must be done to keep those people in their homes and fed. The people that are supposed to be doing the hiring and the banks who are supposed to be giving loans to small and medium sized businesses are not doing so, saying that the way the economy is they cannot be sure of the future....When can you EVER be sure of what the future will bring, and on top of that, THEIR not hiring or lending is What Is Causing This Depression In The FIRST Place. So do not give me this garbage about telling people to just go get a job, it does not work that way.
I just cannot believe that the righties are so ignorant about how the system is supposed to work and Their Own responsibilities under that system, and their own failures to undertake those responsibilities and duties...unless they are trying to manipulate said system for their own gains, when everybody else is losing their homes while the CEO's STILL take home their millions!!
Oh, my. You and I agree that most people would rather have a job than collect entitlements.
You're right that families can't live off of 60% of their previous pay. Actually, the maximum unemployment is somewhere near $450 a week (before taxes). People who were making over $80,000 a year who are now on unemployment are making 30% of their previous pay. So it's worse in many cases than what you describe. People are losing their homes, families are breaking up, savings are depleted. That's my point. A point on which we seem to agree.
I'm not saying people shouldn't get help. They should. The government wants to continue to extend these benefits (without paying for them with an offset), which means they seem to be fine with letting these people try to scrape by and struggle on that measly amount of money. Doesn't the "government" understand that being on food stamps, unemployment, govt programs is devastating for so many? I think the better solution would be to improve the business environment and CREATE JOBS! Sustainable jobs.
The banks aren't lending. Employers aren't hiring. Jobs are scarce. And people are suffering. Extending unemployment won't get the unemployed a job. Jobs need to be created in the private sector and so far the government's efforts have failed to produce that result. So maybe, they should try something different ---like create a friendlier business environment and offer some clarity on future policy.
I'm sorry you've experienced that hardship in your lifetime. It's a terrible situation to be in.
You make a lot of assumptions about how "righties" think. We're all frustrated. Your frustration might be clouding your ability to be reasonable and listen to what other people have to say.
Yes, many CEO's make a ridiculous amount of money. No one is worth what some of them get paid.
On an aside, the employer pays unemployment premiums and those amount to somewhere between 7 and 9 cents per hour per employee. Sounds minimal and crazy but look it up. I'm sure employers account for that expense when they calculate your pay, but the premiums don't actually come out of your paycheck.You'll note there's no deduction on your pay stub.
Candace
I agree that the unemployment benefits do not create jobs, and that more needs to be done to create jobs, however, we HAVE to deal with those people that need the help NOW, which is what the unemployment does. The banks and businesses could be loaning and hiring even now, and help tremendously to get us moving out of this deep hole that we are in, but since that would help the Dems and the President look good, they will Not Do It, not realizing that it would make Them look good as well. Ideology has overcome any sense of reality that the Repub politicians and their handlers seem to have ever had. America is drowning in overqualified labor of all sorts and factories and office buildings are idle, the Rich and the Repubs are cutting off their own noses to spite their face with how they are treating the base of this economy, and the actual source of their wealth.
And, I vastly appreciate the fact that you are willing to have an actual discussion here, without the polemics and dropping back to base, Rush/Beck type statements, it is like a breath of fresh air. I served our Military so that citizens Could have exactly such discourse, we do not have to agree, but we Do need to respect each other. Part of that is being respectful, the other half is being respectable. I appreciate your doing both!
I try my best to tell the truth as I have personally seen it, having experienced a great deal of the woes that accompany working class families. I am presently on Social Security Disability, getting right about $750/ with $108/mo foodstamps as well and that is, for very sure, not an easy way to live, especially with my health probs now. I have also run my own business, had the new house, shop, new Chevy PU...all of that, lost it due to medical problems too, so have been There and done That as well. So I can tell you how I see things, from the inside of these areas, and it is not pretty by any means. But, I am always willing to listen and learn from someone else, I do have my biases, but can set them aside for the purposes of honest discussion.
If only our Politicians would actually read these blogs, or at least the ones that are not just name calling and insults, that gets tiring as it is. If only our Politicians, all of them, would wake up and SEE what they have been allowing to happen to the actual People that make up this Nation, they would be horrified and would Have to do something, but the great majority, right and left as well, seem to be either ignorant of real people's needs, or so far 'Above' that so as to 'not need to pay any attention' to them. I am sure that many of the French Nobles, if not all, felt much that way prior to the guillotine. I pray that it never gets to that point here, but am losing hope fast with the way that the Repub politicians have been acting and stirring up their electorate.
B.
Do you really believe banks and corporations are not lending or hiring to make the Democrats look bad? I think that's a stretch. There's a lot of reasons banks are too tight, but I think corporations and business owners are just uncertain of policy. Let's leave that discussion for another day.
It would be good if the politicians heard what the people are saying. They all seem so out of touch.
Last thought of the night -- It's unforgivable that as a veteran you are struggling as you are. (Benefits for veterans, or lack thereof, is also a discussion for another day). Thank you for your service.
It was good "chatting" with you. Maybe we'll talk again soon.
if you teach a man to fish, but the lake has no fish(could be due to bp), you still lose your house and car.the other people are saying they want to privatize S.S. that would have thrown millions of elderly on the streets a couple of years ago. Why would any politician fight national healthcare? place medicare-medicaid and VA together and you have national healthcare...yes we can! unless too many politicians get their palms greased by big pharma and big insurance and big hospitals that charge ten grand for a pet scan.
leon:
All of you guys keep throwing that privatization of SS around without a clue what you're talking about. Bush wanted to privatize only a PORTION and it would be VOLUNTARY.....V-O-L-U-N-T-A-R-Y.
The VA want no part of the national healthcare debacle. It is already jacked up enough. If people want to really see what national healthcare will look like; go to the nearest VA facility.
Politicians on both sides will always be greased by someone. It cost to be elected. If you are not wealthy enough to finance your own campaign, the money has to come from somewhere.
The VA health system does very very well for the number of patients it has to deal with, they types of problems those patients have and the fact that for decades funding was kept below or barely at levels needed to keep it going. Only lately has their funding allowed them to expand to deal with their workload. I have had very good care from the VA system, even if it is heavily loaded, they do the very best they can for those of us who have served, in their serving us.
okay... just read farther. yes we could create a "friendlier " business environment by ... what? suspending the minimum wage? by suspending any and all environmental laws out there? by doing away with the 40 hour work week? big business and big banks are in collusion to continue the economic spiral. this is when they have the most leverage over employees and they get the most concessions due to economic fear.
companies fire and lay off employees to impress their shareholders and get bigger dividend checks. then they run there companies ridiculously lean and we get environmental disasters and loss of human lives. been there, seen it... got the t shirt.
Leon,
Too many issues to discuss with you tonight. Let's just say there has to be a work out somewhere in the middle because the world is not getting any better the way things are now.
Your "teach a man to fish, but the lake has no fish" sums up another problem we're dealing with, and that was an interesting way to put it.
Have a good night.
After we had this discussion, this popped up this morning in the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/opinion/06smith.html?partner=MYWAY&ei=5065
It shows WHY this is happening: for 15 years the Corporations have been cutting back on investing their profits back into the business, like increasing wages, research, new products etc. and giving themselves bigger and bigger bonuses along with being able to report higher 'profits' by shorting the business itself. This is a big portion of what is wrong with the economic situation in the US, and why people have been getting into worse and worse debt as the Corporations do just fine
Good morning Candice,
May I say that it is very pleasant to discuss issues with others that can disagree and agree with others politely without resulting in anger. Although I am the first to admit there are times when I play rough.
To my friends have a great day!
BTW: my Gulf still burns, we have no national healthcare plan, and now oil in Galveston. this will haunt us for generations to come.
Hey B thanks for the article. they pretty much nailed it and it's apolitical. just the bare facts.
play nice Feisty!