E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
In a speech he gave in DC, President Obama today made the case for a comprehensive overhaul of the nation's immigration system, which would focus on increased border protection, more accountability from businesses, and a pathway to citizenship for the nation's estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants.
Obama said this hot-button topic often led to "demagoguery," but he again urged both parties in Congress to come together on this issue -- just as they did in 2006, when a bill sponsored by the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D) and Sen. John McCain (R) passed the Senate, only to eventually languish.
"The system is broken and everybody knows it," Obama told an audience of some 250 business, labor, and community leaders; immigration advocates; and law enforcement and elected officials at American University's School of International Service. "Unfortunately, reform has been held hostage to political posturing and special interest wrangling and to the pervasive sentiment in Washington that tackling such a thorny and emotional issue is inherently bad politics."
The president's professorial, 35-minute speech -- in which he made the case for reform in a detailed, point-by-point argument -- came after he hosted two private meetings on back-to-back days this week at the White House to discuss immigration.
Obama said that several of the 11 Republican senators who had supported the 2006 effort had backed away under political pressure. And he added that in the absence of a bipartisan deal on this issue at the national level, states like Arizona had decided to take matters into their own hands, which threatened to create a patchwork of local immigration rules where one clear national standard is what is needed.
Arizona's law, which requires that police making lawful stops inquire about the immigration status of people suspected of being here illegally, is "ill-conceived" and "divisive," Obama said, arguing that it also puts pressure on local law enforcement to enforce rules that are unenforceable, strains state and local budgets, and drives a wedge between communities and law enforcement.
In noting the steps taken to increase border protection, the president said the government had doubled the personnel assigned to Border Enforcement Security Task Forces; tripled the number of intelligence analysts along the border; and was screening 100% of south-bound rail shipments to halt the transport of illegal guns, cash, and drugs.
"Today, we have more boots on the ground near the Southwest border than at any time in our history," Obama said. "So the bottom line is this: The southern border is more secure today than at any time in the past 20 years. That doesn't mean we don't have more work to do. We have to do that work, but it's important that we acknowledge the facts."
Obama called an overhaul not just an economic or political issue but a "moral imperative."
"I'm ready to move forward. The majority of Democrats are ready to move forward. And I believe the majority of Americans are ready to move forward," he said. "But the fact is, without bipartisan support, as we had just a few years ago, we cannot solve this problem. Reform that brings accountability to our immigration system cannot pass without Republican votes. That is the political and mathematical reality."
The prospects for a comprehensive immigration bill passing Congress this year remain low in the current political climate, despite a framework put together by a bipartisan group of senators -- Lindsey Graham (R) and Chuck Schumer (D). And the president set no timeline today for passage of the sweeping changes he seeks.
Obama mentioned accomplished immigrants like Albert Einstein and Google co-founder Sergey Brin in talking about the contributions of immigrants who've helped America reap "incredible economic rewards." And he closed by quoting Emma Lazarus' "The New Colossus" -- the poem on the tablet of the Statue of Liberty. The president said it was up to each generation to ensure that the lamp she wrote about "continues to shine as a source of hope around the world, and a source of our prosperity here at home."
Leave a Comment:
President Obama is right. The immigration system is broken and needs some serious overhaul. Instead of trying to solve the problem, Senator Kyl (Republican AZ) is arguing for border security first. Anyone with the brain of a goose knows that our borders are vast and it will take years to secure our borders. Kyl wants to postpone a problem that is impacting his state.
They we have Governor Brewer who tells the President to to his job. Would someone give the governor a clue card that says President Obama is doing his job. Talk to Senator Kyl about solving this problem. How dumb can two people be?
I will say they are smarter than you. You are not aware of what is happening , no administration has done his job, or we would not be having this issue if he did. How can he take credit for this, he has fought this immigration reform bill because it effects his latino votes. He swore to protect this nation from enemies, foreign and domestic. All the crimes happening along the border is not securing this nation. Giving mexico 300 million to secure their borders and 125 million to secure ours is outragous. In 1985 when Reagan passed the immigration bill, He Promise the first and last time this would happened, and they have never enforced or followed up, and only 400,000 took up the offer, so why would this change now. If obama does not stop the crime and murders at the border, it will just get worse.
You cannot have reform with stopping the bleeding, so you need to look at the big picture. This crap obama says about how it has impacted this nation for the good, but yet we have a massive drug problem imported from mexico, massive health care bill, with 12 million illegals getting free health care, massive human smuggling issue, the largest in the world, and he sees this as good?
Before anyone in this country makes decisions, they need to live near the human drop houses, the drug homes, the shooting in the city. So if you do not live here, you need to educate yourself first, and not be closed minded because you love obama and this soon to be welfare nation.
You all from places like far away places, like the northeast or even the midwest really should stop with the whole can't secure the border. My "goose" brain travels the southern borden on a weekly basis from San Diego through Yuma. FYI: that section is very secure. That level of security came within the last three years. There is a pretty fence and tons of Lamigra on patrol.
The Illegals will go home, and take their entire families with them once we strictly enforce the existing laws. I've said it here many times - all that need to be done is to cause the employer who hires an illegal to immediately lose their business license. For fun I think the CEO of WalMart should serve a few months in jail for the thousands of illegals working there, but that would be just for show.
As someone with property and business interests in CA and Az, I call tell you this has been our problem, on a very large scale, for a long time. The illegals migrating north is relatively new. Around here it really comes down to simple economics. For instance the LA school distict's budget is huge. But also huge is the number of ESL student. Related to that is the percentage of drop outs- it simply defys imagination. The same applies to our hospitals and prisons. We cannot afford them. Neither can New York, or any other of the sancutary prone states, yet those are the same states that are totally bankrupt.
They have to go. There are no resources for them. I have also seen first hand their effect on the construction industry. Illegals have driven out legal workes and driven down wages. Not to mention these "hard working" folk typically drive without a license or insurance (we here CA have to carry max. levels of uninsured motorist coverage), and commit tax fraud every single day. Not to mention the fact that most have fake social security cards. I know several peole who have had their id stolen by illegals.
And let's get past this assertion that they already have jobs. No, their "jobs" are paid under the table. You all think the folks paying them now will continue to do so once they are legal. The employers would then have to pay taxes, benefits, and you know generally comply with the law, which dramatically raises the cost of each worker, meaning whole sale layoffs. Then the newly minted legal workers go on outr unemployment and welfare. And do not forget about the added costs to Obamacare. 20 million people who have had little if any medical treatment.
It's be great if we could be nice to everyone, but someone has to pay. It has been disasterous to California and Arizona. To put it another way, there is a reason why SB 1070 is so widely accepted in Arizona. Something has to be done. These people simply have to go. Take away any possible employment and they will leave just the same as they got here.
I applied for my daughter to come to the US legally in 2001. After eight years of waiting and tons of paperwork, including all the fees, we were finally told she would be given her green card.
Imagine the disappointment when we were then told that she was denied, as she had married 29 days before we received our citizenship! If you follow the logic, she had to remail single for the eight years while we waited to see if she was going to be allowed into the country legally!
We were told to start the whole process over agian! So for those of you crying about how tough it is for loved ones to be apart, you have my sympathies. But granting people amnesty because they broke the laws of the United States while others like us have been trying for many years to do things legally! Hell no!
Get to the back of the line behind the rest of us law abiding citizens. The adherence to the law is one of the things that makes America great. Play political games with the law and we will land up a wasted country like the rest of the countries that struggle to survive.
Excellent post, Richard. We have immigration laws. Enforce them. As you noted, you penalize those who follow the law and do it right when you reward these illegals .
If you want a quick easy and cheap fix to the immigration policy youre in luck! I have the solution right here....
Its really quite simple.....
Step 1: Give a 1-2 month "Amnesty" period to illegal immigrants to return to whatever country they came here illegally in the first place. If those people wish to be here then allow them to apply for citizenship legally and if they pass all the required checks then they are welcomed here with open arms.
Step 2: If a person is caught here illegally after the "amnesty" period throw them in jail for a couple years.
Now before the liberals go balistic on me with your "They're only here to make a better life" crap lets analyze some things...... Correct me if Im wrong (and its known to happen sometimes) but to be an ILLEGAL alien that would entail you being here ILLEGALLY erego that person's very being here is against the law of this country. That makes an illegal immigrant a CRIMINAL and CRIMINALS go to jail.
Step 3: Send the Corps of Engineers and the National Guard (for protection -- with orders to fire upon anyone they catch trying to cross the border illegally) down to the border to construct an actual fence that will keep people that are not allowed to be here out of here.
These simple steps solve many problems..... one of which being part of the health care cost issue as the 11-30 million illegal aliens are no longer using our health care system and not paying.
I live within 10 miles of the Mexican border. My husband fought in 3 wars (WWII, Korea and Vietnam) to allow you to have your opinion. I have quit repairing our barb wire fences that the illegals cut. I have quit growing a garden that the illegals tear apart. I do not go out of the house when I'm alone without my sidearm and believe me when I say I know well how to use it. Everyone close to the border has had their homes broken into, their cars stolen, their dogs killed, their fences cut and one neighbor lost him life. The locals pick up over a ton of trash left by the illegals every week. We are constantly battleing fires in the mountains left from the campfires the legals walked off and left burning. You are nothing but a babe in the woods if you believe the lies that Obama tells. He sounds just like Hitler did.
Re: Richard Vann comments on his daughter. Don't blame the system. Your daughter changed the game plan. This system while flawed is correct. You applied for a single daughter to come in. When she married she changed her status and name. Now she has to apply as a married person under her married name. You may sponsor her, but under the new name.
I know it is frustrating, but verification of identity is essential, so we are processing who they say they are. I have witnessed many who are here legally who sponsor daughters and their families. Immigration is tough enough and you have to stay with the game plan.
To Ron from Indiana: Sir, I don't believe you understand the problem. If we don't secure the border first, nothing will work. We have 12 million illegals here, if we grant them legal status and don't support the border, many, many, many, many, many more will come. Do you NOT SEE THE PROBLEM? What we need is 10,000 troops on the border, business hiring of illegals should be CRIMINAL and those who do hire, should go straight to jail. These two things would solve all of our illegal immigration problems. Those illegals already here should be DENIED HEALTH CARE, GRANTS/SCHOLARSHIPS FOR SCHOOL, HOUSING, ETC. unless they come out of the shadows, pay a HUGE fine and wait 5 - 10 years (the estimate for complete processing of immigration). Any questions Ron?
Earth to RON...
Come in RON:
There will be a FLOOD - WAVE - STAMPEED of ilegals entering the US once amnesty or reform is announced.
If the US gives amnesty.... millions more will try and get accross to take advantage of "the deal"
If the US announces it will get tough on ilegals coming to the US, the ilegals will flood across in anticipation of harder access to this country. Either way... The borders must be secured.
Also.... the MYTH of having to protect thousands of miles of border is FALSE. Some areas are so remote... so isolated.... they do not need protection. Anyone trying to cross parts have less than 5% chance of survival. The border defends itself ! ! !
So those 11 Repiblicans forget St. Reagen granted amnesty in the 80's. Grant people the right to work and pay taxes so we can rebuild what the Repubgs destroyed. Stop politicizing the right to liberty, life and the pursuit of happiness which is what the repups interpret to mean they can turn back the 14 th amendment. Ilegals are people and not roaches to be electrocuted.
Repubs can continue targeting Mexicans and there will lots of law suits Az won't like. That is not fiscally conservative either. Even, their own police don't want to enfore the "papers please" law that dried up prune Jan Brewer signed. BTW; did any one notice her face is smoother now? She must have had a face lift.
They are such xenophobes.
The amnesty in the 80's didn't work and there is no way you will pass a bill granting (a road to) citizenship to the current 11m illegals unless this is the last time. Until the problem of the borders is solved there will be no "comprehensive" immigration solution.
Add the fact that there is 10% unemployment and this is a major political loser.
Educate yourself, Read the federal law, 236g, this might enlighten you. You are like the illegals, "we are people to" comment is not the argument, the argument is, you broke the law, the federal law, or I guess its ok to commit a crime, but do not prosecute, because they are human to.
Thats what your saying. Soon when the administration raises your taxes so you can pay for the illegals, then lets see what you say. How about az paying 450 thousand a year in health care for illegals. 600 million in welfare.
I am sure you would like the drop houses next to you when your home value drops and they protect the drop house with ak47.
Read the federal law then read the az law, might educate yourself first.
Quit speaking for others, Beverly. Have you seen the sheriff of Pinal county, AZ, speak? He's BEGGING for help so they can do their duty of keeping people safe. their officers have to keep armed at all times now due to threats from the drug cartels.
What most don't know is that the AZ requires that immigration check can only occur if there's been another crime first. (Whew, let's don't be mean to criminals. oh, oops, they're already criminals if they're here illegally.) the Federal immigration law, on the other hand, allows that they can stop ANYBODY, ANYTIME and ask for proof of citizenship.
So, dirt 303814, what was the point of the AZ law?
It's a boondoggle for any president. They want the votes. It's a nice idea, but we are bankrupt. How will we pay for everything?
With all due respect Mr. President, the majority of Americans don't want immigration reform...they want immigration law enforcement. Simply get INS to all the day laborer sites, and round them all up, put them in trucks, and send back to their countries. I'm usually liberal on most social issues, but not this one. Illegal aliens are by definition criminals, and so are all the people who hire them.Â
With all due respect Pat, I've read your posts in the past and to call yourself liberal is laughable.
patHuntington:
You're also smart enough to know that it would be impossible economically and logistically to round up 20 million+ Hispanics and no telling how many ilegals from other countries into trucks and then to drive or ship or fly them back to their home countries. You also know that there is the sticky issue as what to do with those children of illegals born in this country and who are U.S. Citizens. Do we ship them back home with their parents no matter their age and what of those who a few lawyers will convince to take their issue to court to allow them to remain in the the U.S. They would win as they are U.S. Citizens under the current laws. So if many decide to stay (children) what do you propsoe we do with them after shipping their parents back home? Then there is the burden being placed on law enforcement to round up all the illegals into trucks and to ship them home. What do they do if there is armed resistance in the larger cities. Parts of LA and other major cities could possibly be put to flames and law enforcement would be overtaxed and over burdened with limited manpower to capture, detain and ship out millions of illegals. These are just a few of the major problems with your round up and ship out solution.
Your sentiment may ok, who knows, but your solution is not reasonable.
End their employment and they will leave. Throw a few employers in jail and they will go home.
Pat, the priorities should be:
1. Secure the border – Everyone we send back returns within weeks.
2. Create forgery proof ID.
3. Imprison the employers. If there are no jobs they will go home / won’t come.
4. With these items done we can turn our focus on the ones that remain. A pathway to citizenship is the last thing we need to worry about.
To get anything thru Congress they will need to break this into 4 bills. The Republicans will go along with 1 & 2 above. It will be more difficult to get them on board with 3 & 4. If they try to put it all in one bill it will never pass.
Do you realize what that would do to our economy? Like it or not we need most of these people. I agree with you that they are by definition criminals but we need a more pragmatic solution. I like the idea of amnesty with hefty fines... we might be able to squeeze tens of billions out of them.
patHuntingtonNY
I'm a liberal as well and i agree with you.
Ursula-279622
just because we are liberals does not mean we agree with everything liberal stand for. I want them to go back where they came from. as a liberal i don't like the fact that Illegals come here and think they have a good given right to break our laws, work for below wage rates, have kids, knowing if there are caught here they have to go back and there children get to stay. then they say we can't go back because it will break up our families. TOO BAD!!!! they knew our laws and though they could get around them.
again i'm a liberal but please send them back.
Dennis:
I have always said that the first step to immigration reform is to provide more security for our borders. The way to fund increased security is to transfer those millions being spent on these policing actions in Iraq and Afghanistan to securing our borders. To offer those troops being brought home from Iraq and Afgahnistan and who wish to make the military a career a job patroling our borders and in assiting local law enforcement to hunt down and elimnate drug traffickers. The U.S communties along the border would see a boost in their economy with the housing of these troops and the money the troops would spend in these communities.
The second step is to close down those employers hiring illegals and if necessary to give them some jail time.
The third step is to increase our own minimum wage so that employers can no longer pay people slave wages for the many long hours and difficult manual labor tasks that many illegals now perform. This will encourage more U.S. Citizens (especially those currently unemployed) to seek out these jobs where they can earn a decent wage and one that pays substantially more than their weekly unemployment benefit. If such a necessary increase in wages cannot be afforded by some of these employers forcing them to shut down then so be it.
One other step is to create a National ID Card for Citrizens and legal aliens. This could simply be the person's Drivers License or a Non-Driver ID Card also issued by the State's Licensing Bureaus with at least one of a fseveral box options checked, U.S. Citizen, Legal Worker, Legal Exchange Student, etc. As what to do about the 20+ million illegals now in this country, I don't have a clue, but I do believe that if they are to be given temporary work visas so they can work while following the proper legal channels to become U.S. Citizens, a top requirement is that they learn to speak, read and write in English.
Here's the problem with the "round 'em up" scenario: How are you going to get Republicans to vote for PAYING for it? They're against tax increases, and they're against increasing the deficit.
How do you think Republicans would react to THAT conundrum?
Jose ~ About the same as everything else. Badly.
I agree with Pat 100%.
And no that does not make me a racist or anything else.... It simply means that this is my country and the ONLY people who should be here are those who are here legally.
I also feel that it is a disgrace that the Regime is trying to bully Arizona into backing down off their Immigration law.
If the Regime would simply ENFORCE the current federal laws this would be a non-issue
Now to be fair Bush 1, Clinton nor Bush 2 did anything to enforce immigration laws. The Federal gov't needs to do its job and protect the border. simple as that..... or follow my simple 3 step plan listed up above in Ron's thread :-)
Republican AZ Senator Kyl obviously didn't see the people crossing the fence the same day that dried up prune Jan Brewer signed the law. Kyl is an idiot and a bigot which he demonstrated quite clearly when he lambasted Thurgood Marshall during the Kagan hearings.
Ron Indiana, Obama doesn't know what his job is, so Governor Brewer is trying to remind him that he has a responsibility to enforce our immigration laws. I doubt if you have ever been to Arizona and seen the border in person, and neither has Obama. He can run all over the country bad mouthing Arizona's law, which by the way, is the same as the federal law. The Obama administration, AG Holder, admitted that he had not even read the Arizona bill, but made remarks about it be unconstitutional. Yes, the border is vast, but it is not impossible to close or at least slow the flow of illegals. This speech was nothing more than another one of Obama's continuous campaign speeches.
SFCRET: I lived in Arizona for 23 years. Returned to Indiana a few years ago to care for my ailing parents. It is you that does not know what the hell you are talking about.
Ron Indiana: No, ron it is you that don't know what you are talking about. The majority of Arizona residents support Governor Brewer and what she is doing, they also support the Arizona law that was passed. You are nothing but another liberal supporter of Obama. When you say Obama is doing his job, please explain what he has done to help Arizona to resolve the illegal immigration problem. He won't even visit Arizona and see first hand what is going on at the border.
sfcret. Did Bush know what his job was--this has been a problem for decades so what exactly did Bush do? McCain has been a Senator forever, what did he do? Kyl, same question. Answer: Pres Obama is a democrat and that makes immigration his fault.
@sfcret -
What has the AZ senators and congress-people done to help Arizona in regards to illegal immigration? Anyone in congress can sponsor a bill . Why is it that your own democratically elected members have done nothing?
Once you all re-elect John McCain in November, what do you think he will do ?
Its easy to point the finger at Obama or at Bush or whatever President you'd like but the truth is that your own elected officials are letting you down. I give your Governor points for at least doing 'something'.
You have elections this November - tell you what to do:
(1) Vote out the jerk that's there now because he/she isn't doing much for you
(2) Make immigration YOUR reason for voting this year and try to pick a winner
(3) Once the new guy/gal is in write them a letter ( handwrite it ) and tell them why you voted for them and what you will do if they don't do what you ask.
Every 2 years, we all get to the choice to over-throw our own government with the vote.
Don't mess it up !
The list is endless of the contributions made in this country by immigrants. But since many Americans aren't immigrants, as usual, they could care less about the pathway to immigration for those already here. I talk with many immigrants on a daily basis, and they are polite, funny, friendly and deeply involved in American culture. I can't walk in the front door of my office building without a handful of them excited about the Red Sox, the Patriots, the Celtics...they love America. And I know seeing them every morning and evening, that I'm going to get a warm smiling good morning or ... have a next weekend... from every one of them. And I know that when I see a GOP ad on tv, it's going to be hateful, discriminatory.
You would think that some in the GOP up on the Hill would stand up and defend immigration reform. But they don't because they have no character. The ironic thing is that it is they who don't work for a living, not the immigrants. The immigrants work hard. Our Congress? Boehner? Nope. They do nothing to contribute to our society.
President Obama still hasn't figured it out yet - today's Congress doesn't give a **** about anyone. They're afraid of the tea party gang, the most anti-American group in this country.
...the usual response...no one is against immigration...it's ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
Don't worry Alan, this isn't going to go forth. People in this country aren't open minded about it over all. I wonder how Mitt Romney feels about this. They mowed his lawn and planted flowers in his garden. They cook meals for the rich, clean their homes, baby sit their children, do their grocery shopping.
Time to kick them out now that the economy has tanked.
...and we should go after every one of these employers for evasion of taxes
I doubt it will happen. But yes, I agree with you.
And another policy I've advocated, but in this employment climate will not happen, is to expand legal immigration. Open up the 21st century equivalent of Ellis Island. One reason I don't like illegal immigration (and any amnesty) is the unfairness of it. Why should someone who sneaks into the country get an amnesty over someone, say from Asia, who waited?
I like your idea as well. The illegal part I have a problem with because for years and years everybody looked the other way and their labor was beneficial to so many. That's why I would like to see amnesty for them. They do not see much of a future for themselves or their families if/when they have to leave. We're so fortunate here and the illegals know it. They really do love America and all she has to offer.
No simple answer I'm afraid. But I do appreciate your thoughts, Alan. Have a Happy 4th.
Because we haven't had a raise for a few years, our company has given us tomorrow off.
EXACTLY, PAT.
This isn't an easy problem to solve. If it was, someone would have solved it long before this.
The truth of the fact is that if you were to magically get all illegals to disappear tomorrow, the economy of the country would fall apart. I know that most red-blooded Americans don't want to hear that but the truth is sometimes painful.
This is an issue that needed to be resolved maybe 20-25 years ago. Now, you just can't send 'em back without causing some serious harm.
Truth is, we have work here in the U.S. that needs to be done and it needs to be done for LESS THAN the minimum wage. Fact of life.
If we do it for minimum wage rates, expect that 200%-300% cost increase to be passed directly on to everyone.
In America, we have a very high cost of living when compared to other countries. Our labor efforts cost too much. Is there anyone reading this post that actually makes $2/hour? ( I think not )
Americans - question for you..Do you want to wean our country off of OPEC oil so that our young men and women don't have to fight and die for it? Or would you rather throw out the illegals and pay $12 for a Happy meal because lettuce and tomato prices just went through the roof?
Take your pick because we probably can't afford to do both because we are in a recession and most of our jobs are going overseas...
The only way the illegal is able to work for lower wages is by not paying taxes and then further leaning on our resources by getting undeserved welfare and WIC.
Here's a breakdown lets say average Mr. Joe Citizen makes $10 with a 40 hour week gross is $400 after taxes might net around $288 bring home and thats if he opts out of a health care policy. Average monthly income $1152
Mr. Pepe Illegal makes the same under the table and brings all $400 home. Average monthly income $1600 Since he works off book he might get welfare assistance too. He is married and has 4 children, since he is off the books he looks impoverished and gets WIC and welfare from the Government. They file tax return claiming her children were born here and net even more in EIC.
Add to that 3 of his children are school aged and get "free education" courtesy of guess who the taxpaying citizen.
Truth is the cost difference is hidden and the burden left carried by the tax paying citizens. So the illegal can work at the same or lower rate than a citizen while enjoying a substantially better lifestyle.
Truth is the cost far outweighs the benefits you claim.
How is it fair that the illegal is able to continue to break the law and yet live the "American Dream" that is only wishfull thinking for most American Citizens.
Illegals, yes there is a problem. However, why not focus on real drug enforcement....totally crackdown on the cartels and the probably massive system of drug importation and selling. I'm not talking about the user. The user doesn't have the boats, planes, etc.
The "suits" are they ones who finance the illegal drugs.......Drugs equate to BIG MONEY and folks in high places, a la Afghanistan.......
Additinally, check out where the GE light bulbs are made....MEXICO! From now on, I will be checking out my common use products to see just where they are manufactured....if it doesn't say USA, I'm not buying!
"Additionally, check out where the GE light bulbs are made....MEXICO! From now on, I will be checking out my common use products to see just where they are manufactured....if it doesn't say USA, I'm not buying!" -chilled
Good luck with that.
Yes, Gina....we all should do the same. Big manufacturers have shipped jobs out of the country so that their overhead will be much less and profits much more. Bring the jobs back!
Do you remember during the campaign, chilled, Obama said he wouldn't require US employers to bring their jobs back from overseas. And, he said we wouldn't want them back, they weren't high-paying enough. there's a WHOLE LOT of credit card workers in Bangladesh that are really happy with OUR jobs.
I would like to hear Kyl's (specific) suggestions or ideas as to how he would secure the borders.
He would probably propose a "Second Amendment" solution, CA. Just like we won the Old West ... the only good imm'grant is a .... (well, you get the idea).
patHuntingtonNY
You're half right about illegal immigrants. It's true the people who hire them are crimnals since they expolit the systems and immigrants. Even Fox Noise's Murdoch and Mayor Bloomberg advocated for a path to legalization for undocumented immigrants by making the case that immigrants create, not take away, jobs for Americans.
Also it's simply not true increase in crime, and immigrants were to blame for this. The Times explains that overall crime has been dropping in Arizona, as it has in most big cities .
http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/06/28/nyt-on-arizonas-immigrant-crime-not-as-bad-as-oreilly/
Then, Beverly, just run on down there and live on the border if you think it's so safe. Did you know Phoenix now has the highest kidnapping rate in the world? Did you know PHX is the second highest for car theft in the world? In OK this week, huge drug bust of a Mexican cartel cache.
And, Beverly, if you like camping, we'll set you up in those public lands areas with the signs warning American citizens to keep out due to danger of drug smuggling and weapons.
Just because you repeat the Ditto Heads LIES doesn't make them automatically come true...
http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290029
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-waters/2010/06/22/illegal-immigration-raising-arizonas-crime-rate-ny-times-says-no-releva
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States
I've done my homework dirtball - what about you?
I'd like to see your sources on those kidnapping rates...as even the Republicans are claiming it is the 2nd highest kidnapping rate in the world...which has also been debunked. Mexico City by far has the most kidnappings, then head to South America for next on that list.
And all that about kidnapping, drug smuggling, and weapons has nothing to do with the Arizona Law. As I understand it, those aren't committed by illegal immigrants, as much as gangs living on the Mexico side crossing over into the states and going back. That is the real reason better border security is needed, whereas the illegal immigration problem should be addressed by stopping the sources of jobs, as others have mentioned.
I live in Oregon and friends who own property in the hills have over the years encountered illegal pot grows and often they are guarded by armed men, some linked to the Mexican cartels. They've also found some poppy fields here as well. You risk running into this problem just going for hike or a weekend in the woods. The growers divert water from streams destroying fish habitat and the chemicals they use seep into the ground and water as well. The borders need securing now and a plan created that will allow those who really want to be here and do it legally.
Obama has done more to secure the border than any other US president in History. In the end there is no way to fully secure it. Build a fense? They climb over, all troops - they dig tunnels. Since Obama took oever illegal immeigration is down, there are more guards on the border, crime from illegals is down.
Immegration reform is needed and if Washinton is to do its jobs the GOP have to do there job.
Obama hasn't done anything to secure the border. All the fencing so far was financed and done during the Bush years. Obama won't do anything about illegal immigration because the democrats need the mexicans votes to try and keep control. Further, President Regan in 1983 passed an immigration reform bill that granted legal status to approximately 3 million illegals. Now we got over 10 million wanting the same thing. It is very simple to secure the border, build two fences, 20 yards apart, both topped with razor wire and in between the fences put down land mines, making it like the DMZ in Korea.
works for me! But, of course, you'd be violating their civil rights by the possibility they might step on a mine.
sfcret and dirt - Really? You want to militarize the border all 2000 plus miles of it with razor wire and land mines? Truely sad that anyone would think, let alone post anything like that.
This is a serious issue. Most people on the right although demonizing immigrants don't go as far as you do. Congratulations you are the worst of the worst.
I'm not going to go in depth or repost some of the good suggestions already stated above by Pat Boston and Ron, Idiana. You can't argue with hate and that is what you are sfcret.
To all of the rest of you who want to deport all undocumented immigrants think of how that would affect their children primarily. I'm sure most of you conservative spend thrifts wouldn't care about them but how would it affect the economy. It would be costly to do this and incur additional debt.
Take a look at this site below if you care, not to generalize that all of these people work in the farming sector but if you heartless conservatives think we can get by without the jobs of immigrants you can take over doing the hard labor they do under the hot sun.
www. takeourjobs.org
Three pronged attack with immigration reform. Simultaneously
1. Criminalize and harshly punish (jail) employeers who knowingly hire undocumented workers.
2. At the border - Place more border patrol agents, cameras etc. on the border
3. Legislatively - Pass a pathway to legalization which imposes a fine, puts them in the back of the line and requires them to learn english. Adjust legal immigration quotas as justified to decrease the need for illegal entry.
The people living in cities are not going to be content with his comments. The town in NE is going to take the problem to their town hall and the people of the town are going to be the ones that enforce the laws. We the people have to enforce the laws not the federal govenment. The federal government does not live in the town hall of these communities. The enforcement of the laws by the policeman or who?
"...However, the president did not outline any details for immigration reform or set a timetable for dealing with a reform bill during the half-hour speech. That will disappoint those pushing Obama to fulfill his election pledge to take up the issue...."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/01/AR2010070100388.html
Making his case?
This particular debate gets funnier by the moment. Each party blames the other and yet collectively it was all their fault.
I just can't help but quoting "Stupid is as Stupid does".
Unfortunately, enforcement of Arizona border security has been held hostage to Obama's political agenda. The pervasive sentiment in the White House seems to be that it would be bad politics to not take political advantage of the thorny and emotional issue in Arizona and execute their federal responsibility of protecting the border.
I f you are in a boat in the middle of the Gulf that has a leak that can be plugged, do you wonder about comprehensive reform of your leisure aquatic activities, or do you plug the leak?
If you have an oil well in the middle of the Gulf that has the worst leak in U.S. history, do you execute your federal responsibilty to protect the coasts and remove the irresponsible party that caused the leak and take over, or do you leave it up to the irresponsible party to plug the leak and protect the coast while you use this incident to promote your political agenda?
And some people can't understand why Obama is the most polarizing president in Gallop history.
We have a problem with domestic hiring (nanny's, housekeepers, etc) in Chicagoland and I suspect this is true in other areas of the country. The problem is that most employers (affluent and upper middle-class families) do not want to pay payroll taxes and are not interested in the legal status of their workforce.
I have been looking for a nanny jobs for my legal immigrant mother-in-law and have gotten a pretty good sense of the market here. Most families want to pay between $350 and $400 a week for 60 plus hours. This is well below minimum wage but is the market rate for this type of work in Chicagoland because the market is saturated with illegal aliens who are willing to work for that amount.
If they had to pay legal workers minimum wage they would be losing money. The status quo benefits these people.
I have seen some good points raised here. Where I can and WILL push back is to state a couple of things that should be obvious but that are apparently not.
1) Over 20 million illegal aliens are already here and already working. They are not legal, but still earn money working here and they spend the money they earn HERE. They buy the same goods and products with the SAME dollars you and I spend.
2) I concede we need to do a much better job of securing the border. I know you do not want to hear this and that you will certainly not acknowledge (let alone agree) that the President has ordered a large increase in the number of troops to the border.
3) Since we can agree that, for now, the border is porous and allows many illegal aliens to enter this nation. As you correctly pointed out above, this is because the wage they can earn here is still more than they are able to earn in their own country. You are correct that this is an inherent financial incentive for these people to make the attempt to get here. In item #4, let's explore why this is shall we?
4) The reason these people want to come here is that they know that IF they DO manage to get past the border and assimilate into the population, there will ALWAYS be businessmen that are more than happy to make use of this labor pool at a deeply discounted hourly rate. If an American wants $10.00 an hour, but an illegal will do the same job for $2.50 an hour, the result is a windfall profit to the business. If these businesses would were unwilling or legally prevented from HIRING these illegal aliens, there would NOT be a strong financial incentive for them to come here because their hourly wage here would be ZERO! If they are not able to find employment here from unscrupulous businessmen, they will stay home since $0.50 per hour is still better than $0.00! If the businessmen are willing to pay them $2.50 IF they can get here, do you really think you are going to convince them not to try?
5) Until you are willing to accept that the ONLY way to REALLY solve this issue is to address the cost of labor issue. The reason the GOP is so conflicted is because they desperately want to preserve the flow of cheap, reliable, and captive labor to keep the profits of big business artificially inflated while they line the pockets of the GOP.
Yes, we need to address the issue on many fronts simultaneously. The reason we never seem to be able to get anything done with regard to this issue in Congress always comes down to the same painful reality. Big Business (ie: GOP) is totally unwilling to stop hiring those illegal aliens that are willing to risk the trip here and are successful. Shut off the jobs, and they will stop coming. We also need to strengthen our borders and address the huge illegal population already here in some sane and reasonable manner. They will not just disappear and we cannot simply round them all up and deport them. Their money still spends and they contribute to society whether your personal views, hatred, racism, or bigotry prevents you from seeing it or not...
Disgusted, they send $14 BILLION to Mexico. Their money doesn't stay here.
Secure the border. Start arresting employers and seizing their assets. Anybody who isn't here with a green card has to go. Enough is enough! I'm very disappointed in Obama playing the race card today and pulling the strings of "splitting families apart". Could go a step further and change the law that says you're a citizen if born here; that would stop a lot of the problem!
Disgusted In PA - Well thought out and reasoned. I voted.
Dirt: Yes they send a bunch of money back to Mexico, and yes they cost the state of Arizona 2.7 billion a year in entitlements (according to Fox News), yet it would still cost the state more in lost revenues if they were all kicked out. Yes, I understand they are here illegally, and thus are technically criminals, but if it is the money argument anyone is making, the advantage for the state is keeping them all here, spending money and contributing to the economy.
Dirt,
You are correct, they send a lot of money home to support their families. Are you going to tell me that while they are here, they are not eating, buying shoes, clothes, etc.? They live frugally because they are here illegally, the business owners can report them and they live in fear of this, so work long hours for little pay and keep quiet. Your beef is NOT with those that will go wherever they have to in order to provide for the family. If the jobs are not here, neither will they. End of story.
If you want to really solve this problem, it will require the Republicans dropping their opposition to ENFORCEMENT of laws against businesses that hire and employ illegal aliens. That will require that the Republican's big money masters agree to accept that they will have a smaller profit margin as their labor costs will rise when there are no more illegals to work for pennies on the dollar. Once we have eliminated the jobs that draw them here, border enforcement and some manner of addressing those already here can be tackled.
Until the GOP stops being hypocritical and talking publicly about being in favor of reform and then have those that SPONSOR bills vote AGAINST their OWN bills, you know who is twisting in the wind dancing to the tune of their corporate money masters...
P.S. Thanks Mark! :)
As was said earlier, the best way to slow the number of undocumented immigrants coming into the country is to take away their incentive to do so.
Place the blame squarely on those companies that knowingly hire them. The laws are already on the books. The enforcement is the problem. Too many businesses are "addicted" to the hiring of the undocumented workers. Too much money being made by those companies for the cheap pay immigrants are willing to accept.
Don't blame the undocumented workers. Most are only trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.
Bipartisanship is required on this issue, but it won't happen.
This issue, like many others that Obama wants to address will not be easy. In these moments, I wish Democrats had the spine and votes to press forward without help from those on the other side of the aisle. But that's not a possibility in this heated political climate.
I read an interesting definition for Bipartisanship today. It conveys my current feelings towards most Republicans.
BIPARTISANSHIP: I'll hug your ELEPHANT when you kiss my A$$.
This is why Immigration Reform is DOA.
What do they do if there is armed resistance in the larger cities. Parts of LA and other major cities could possibly be put to flames,,,,from CA
CA, apparently, you don't watch the news? Just yesterday, El Paso courthouse shot at nine times. Mexican soldiers have shot at the border Patrol. Pinal county recently had an officer shot. A rancher has been shot. It goes on and on. It's so bad they now have signs, courtesy of the Federal govt, that tell American citizens to stay out of certain areas due to the danger. Sorry, CA, your feigned concern is too late! The war already started on the border!
Oh but dirt, I am not speaking just of the border. I am speaking of severe violence across this entire nation when the government sends out law enforcement personnel or even troops to round up the 20+ million illegals already in this country and who reside in every city and many smaller towns throughout the U.S. I am not saying it would be a war, but there will be pockets of resistence all across this nation as well as potential terroristic acts. Is this what you want versus perhaps a less violent and more reasonable solutuon?
Wow. I don't know what would be a worse future for America: millions of illegals who aren't supposed to be here having the nerve to kill because we are taking away a right they never had in the first place...OR...the millions of elderly carjackers and geriatric crack dealers you predicted yesterday!
Farley:
Reading your comments it is apparent that your seething hatred precedes you. Not just for illegals but for anyone illgeal or legal who disagrees with your narrow-minded bigotted mentaility. What is it that has made you such a miserable and odious person. Share with us so perhaps we might understand.
What I stated as a potential result of trying to round up 20+ million illegals has nothing to do with rights, nerves, who is right and who is wrong. It is simply a statement of potential fact with a question as to whether one might not want to avoid such potential violence if another more reasonable solution can be found.
Try to find a way to chill Farley. It will help with those veins poping out of your neck, those sparks shooting out of your eyes, that uncontrolable dribble dripping down your lip and that foul garbage coming out of your mouth.
Does anybody think that the native americans wish they had sealed to borders in 1492? After "their" country was invaded, occupied and those that weren't killed, put on reservations.
Sorry. When the "native Americans" were the only ones here, this place could hardly be called a "country", much less "America". Do you have some info the rest of us don't? Did the Indians call this GIGANTIC chunk of land "America?" Did they have a government? Were they divided up into states? Did they have a constitution and laws?
No. There were about 2 million people here divided up into hundreds of tribes, scattered all over the continent. Many could go hundreds of years without even knowing that a tribe 50 miles away even existed. The Indians should have just left the settlers come in peace and settle down and try to build a new life. Why didn't the Indians do this? Apparently they didn't believe in diversity.
Trust me. If the Indians had benn as advanced as the Europeans who came from across the ocean, they too would have been sailing around, discovering new lands, and conquering whomever had lived there for centuries. In fact they DID do this...to each other. But because they went centuries without having invented ships, they could not conquer, rape, pillage, mutilate and enslave any further than their neighboring tribes.
So ... the ability to "conquer, rape, pillage, mutilate and enslave" over long distances somehow justified what Europeans did to the Native Americans? Or was it just the fact that Native Americans didn't have a single, organized government that justified their wholesale rout and slaughter? Huh. I thought that was Hitler.
By the way, as for boats, I think it's pretty well accepted that not all native Americans came here over the Alaska peninsula. Ever hear of the Kon Tiki expedition? And maybe, having just discovered one incredibly vast and rich new land that was theirs for the taking, they just didn't want to waste time sailing around discovering and conquering others. Whatever those others were.
Anna Molly, I love it when you apparently pasty white folks try to stand up and speak for poor defenseless indians of which I am legally classified one. I am an AMERICAN, no native to it. If the Europeans hadn't conquered this continent it would have been the Asian, the Muslims, or some other group of people, I'm probably here because the Europeans let my forefathers live. I for one am glad I don't live in a tee-pee, wear a breech-cloth and hunt for my food on a daily basis. So the next time you want to feel sorry for the red man, just feel sorry for yourself for being such a da###d wuss.
In other news;
Stock market circling the bowl...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703426004575338443463146072.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories
oil continues to gush into the gulf...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gIXWYBTpLtSayJtg41LKXpxSxVPAD9GMDT2G0
Afghanistan death toll tops 100...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/afghanistan/2010-06-30-afghan-deaths_N.htm
Obama keeps telling us about how much he, and his friends in Congress, have done for the American people. Seems he's more Stuck On Zero then anything.
I have a question along the same lines as what has been said here by those who are discouraged by the President's call for bi-partisanship on this issue ~ Whatever happened to the good old days when the White House drafted its own version of important legislation and sent it to Congress, rather than "You guys really should get together and see if you can come up with something along these lines"? Because we've all seen what happens when we leave things up to Congress and then sit back wait for bi-partisanship to emerge, as if by magic (Bag Boy excepted). Or has everyone forgotten the health care reform debate and the patched-up, patchwork product it produced?
Good Point Anna Molly.
The practice has been that a President would send to congress their suggested legislation. Congress (both sides) would then review that drafted by the Whitehouse and then if they felt it was necessary produced their version of the legislation. If different from the Presdients then there was discussion and if necessary compromise. Then a Bill was passed. It seems today that when the President suggests legislation, points out those steps he feels are necessary for the legislation, then asks congress to review and discuss the same, the Republicians say hell no, we are not offering, discussing or going to do anything. Well, except to try and block anything the President suggests.
Excellent speech by President Obama. He made a strong argument about why this is divisive and why it must be resolved. The media has done very little reporting on the Obama admin crack down on employers hiring illegals--his staff has done more in 18 months than Bush did in 8 years; that crime along the borders is actually lower, in fact, AZ's crime is the lowest in a decade; how more border security is present. Again, the media fails to inform the public about what has been done.
Republicans like to demand something be done about illegals but offer no help in fixing the problem. Whether right or wrong, that refusal to work on a solution leads me to believe that they like things the way they are. I disagree with John Kyl about securing the border first being the #1 priority; prosecuting those who knowingly hire illegals and fixing the broken immigration system by expanding the work permit process would make securing the border easy.
First Thoughts. I just read many and as usual there were some excellent posts.
Joanne, PA -- yours was wonderful and beautifly worded.
I.R. VA--great post, once again more information that should scare even the most adament drill, baby driller into some sense of honest evaluation about the consequences of oil drilling especially in deep water. Would that the media do its real job of informing the public, not offering its opinion.
dirt... You should look closer at the words written and spoken by republicans, they would eliminate every safety net IF they could.
Living in L.A. -- you made some valid points and I appreciate the thoughtful comment. There are some areas we agree, reviewing and fixing the existing systems is a must. I do know that the money does not go into a "lockbox"; however, the law guarantees the money must be paid. I think it is important to look at both parties as being guilty regarding "borrowing" but the party which created the largest debts is the GOP under Reagan, Bush and Bush. I should have expanded my thought this morning to include that fact that far too many Americans live at or near the poverty level; it is easy to ignore them because it isn't "me or my family". Entitlements is the modern term but its recent use has become a political GOP catch phrase making safety nets sound evil and contrary to America's ideals. They are entitlements because we pay into them and are entitled by law to receive them when needed. One has only to look at the 2008 financial collapse with its millions of unemployed Americans to realize that unemployment insurance is as necessary as health insurance when the economy drives into a ditch.
Jody you are high if you think the borden has less crime or is safe. But then again you live in Iowa, a long ways away. The illegals illegally working here commit many crimes every day: from identiy theft to tax evasion, but the drug runners and people smugglers are very dangerous, not to mention the flop house where these folk live.
And it really do not help property valuse when they pack 50 people in one house.
Joanne, --that's beautifully worded. Failed to catch my typo and spell check.
WE THE PEOPLE will stop Obama's "Leave No Mexican Behind" program. We did it before, three years ago when the Repubs and Dems joined together to do it, and we will stop it now. Obama talked a lot of crap during the campaign about "changing America." I now really believe he meant it. And I believe he, like most liberals would dearly like to change it (for the worse) and make it a much different America than it was when we grew up. November can't come soon enough and Obama taking the side of illegal aliens over his fellow Americans should be used as a campaign issue at all times.
"The president said it was up to each generation to ensure that the lamp she wrote about "continues to shine as a source of hope around the world, and a source of our prosperity here at home."
The lamp may shine as a source of hope around the World, but the prosperity here at home, well I would have to ask for whom it shines? If we maintain our current trajectory economically you will have a handful of wealthy and powerful with the masses left to scurry about miserably trying to exist with the Statue Of Liberty being nothing more than a painful reminder of the "good ol' days". Think it isn't happening as you read this? Best come down from your ivory tower jump in the Beamer and explore what lays outside the Beltway my friend.