I was kind of waiting to see Debbie Downer make a cameo. lol

HAHA. I know... wah wah wahhhh.

Chris,

Please get your facts straight. The attack on MLK will be in August when Beck has HIS rally in DC. In the meantime, let's sit back and see how much further the Republicans go in attacking a black Justice and trashing the African American vote in November. After bashing Latinos, apparently the GOP wants to spread the "wealth" a little and alienate large swaths of the electorate. Bravo!

My thoughts exactly. Why attack anything 60 years ago anyway? because it's the stale Conservodrone attitude of a segregated society, or as the term applies today, 'The Haves' and the 'Have Nots'.

Either a majority of the Republithugs are truly ignorant and arrogant or they are just plain... either way, it's not saying much.

Sessions and Cornyn - sheesh! It musta really frosted their cracker @$$e$ when Marshall opened up all that legal whup@$$ in Brown v. Board of Education. Marshall won most of his cases before the Supreme Court!

Yeah, but you will turn a blind eye to all the hate talk and BS coming out of the Republicans and will proudly cast your ballot as a black man for these people that only want to reach into your wallet and wonder why your people look at you with derision and disdain?

Democrats say just as much. You are living proof. Mostly all are old white men in both parties. Democrats have deamonized Republicans so bad as to a black man doesn't have a chance to win a Cogressional race because his own people will vote against him.

I am yet to see where voting Democrat all of these years have gotten the black community. Yes we all can say Civil Rights (to which Democrats fought against), etc. But I'm talking about the problems of TODAY....ie...Unemployment, Incarceration, Welfare (generation after generation), unwed teenage mothers, single parent homes, GHETTOS, etc..

Take where I grew up in Tom Delay's old district as compared to Sheila Jackson-Lee's district. Both with just about an equal amount of African Americans and Latino's...you will see a very stark difference. I wonder why...

You are correct Muddle. I think what you really should do is go back to the days BEFORE the Civil Rights Act and see how well you fare in society. Unemployment, incarceration, etc. would be the LEAST of your problems.

The problem is that people like you did NOT have to endure what those that came before you had to overcome. As such, you take for granted the liberties you enjoy and want to criticize those that want to help others like you that ALSO could use a break getting ahead in the world. I know the sentiment is lost on people like you but it IS true that a rising tide lifts ALL boats, not just the biggest yachts.

During the 90's, while the Republicans were overly worried about the President getting oral sex, the ENTIRE country was doing well. The rich were making a ton of money and were content, and even those at the bottom of the economic pecking order were doing decently well. The country was at peace, we had a budget SURPLUS, and ALL of us seemed to be prospering very well thank you. Then the SCOTUS appointed GWB to the office of the President and, 8 years later, we are stuck in the rut of deficit spending and had to break the bank even further to stave off the Depression that GWB wanted to badly to leave us as the legacy to his magnificence.

Yeah, Muddle... Let's hear it some more... Rah, rah, shish boom bah for anything the right wants to block and HECK NO to anything Obama wants to do to try to help the PEOPLE of this country.

Disgusted:

First of all you (Probably caucasion) don't know what I had to endure coming up. I lived through the tail end of the Civil Rights era. I experienced asking my grandfather why I couldn't eat a hamburger in Woolworth's or go in a certain door at the Pharmacy/Ice Cream Parlor. I know what hard work and education can get you in America too. I watched my father build his Bar B Que biz from our garage to the 3 locations my brothers and I own today. I saw the culmination of his hard work earlier this year when he was featured on Diners, Drive-Inns and Dives and how people love him.

During the 90's Clinton didn't get anything done the first 2 yrs but it changed when he had a Republican congress. He benefitted from all of the DOT.Com companies that were created with the Internet. We were at peace because Reagan bankrupt the Soviet Union and Bush 41 had the rest of the world on notice with the military might displayed in Desert Storm.

Also there is a difference in a Budget Surplus and a Defecit. Everyone did not prosper during that time. I see some of the same families that were in financial distress before Clinton and are still there today. SCOTUS appointed.........LOL...that is funny..........Do you think that if Ole' Al had a shot at winning he would not have gone for it? If he would have won, we would be in the same situation today except he would have been the recipient of the blog revolution and invention of all these talking head shows instead of Bush. I wonder how many would like his azz now if all of this was around back then.

There is no way to prove and economist has said this: We were saved from a Great Depression. You show some proof besides some talking point that I can hear 24/7 on MSNBC.

I'll pass judgement on Obama in about another year. Everything will be his then, no more George Bush caused it; I inherited, BS.

BTW: I don't twist your moniker, so I expect the same courtesy from you. If I do it then that is another story.

ITM,

Point taken regarding the twisted moniker. I have rectified this and will refrain in the future. I prefer to have a reasonable, intelligent exchange personally anyway. I am clearly capable of taking it wherever it needs to be, but prefer the high road.

To address your first point, yes, I am Caucasian; however, grew up in a very diverse and ethnically rich environment. As such, I not only came to appreciate the various cultures and differences in character I found, but was also painfully aware of the plight of those not fortunate enough to have inherited the fruits of their parent's labor (in your case in the form of a BBQ restaurant). Clearly you and I were molded by very different environments and experiences and I value that diversity.

Where I grew up in and very close to the plight of those that worked VERY hard for someone ELSE, you clearly grew up on the other side of the fence and were part of a family that worked at least as hard (if not harder) but for YOU. There is a HUGE difference in the perception of how business operates in the real world. On the one hand are the business owners that are desperately trying to scratch out a living while simultaneously also trying to make payroll so that others can also make a living. The other side is obviously the "little people" that do the labor that makes it possible for the business owners to maintain and grow the business and, with some luck, make it really big.

The clear advantage is to the business owner. Yes, they take the risks and could go bust, but they ALSO stand to reap the benefit of that risk. Yes, business owners work their tails off generally, at least in the start up years, but they are working to better themselves and THEY reap the benefits of whatever they are able to sow. The workers are arguably better off in that they are not burdened by the pressures and stress of making a payroll and covering the vendor payments, but they ALSO have bills, obligations, and expenses that need to be covered. As hard as THEY work, they will NEVER reap the same benefits. Yes, this is capitalism and I have NO problems with this so far, so put down the pitchforks and hear me out.

When the industrial revolution hit, there were massive abuses of the labor force inflicted by some of the richest and most ruthless "robber barons" of all time. Because of these excesses, unions arose to champion the needs and rights of those that were powerless to stand against these oligarchies. The result is the 8 hour day and the 5 day work week, among many others of course. Now, is this a bad thing? Did business crash? Did the economy implode? No! In fact, because of the newly found leisure time AND increase in disposable income, the economy roared and all were prosperous. Well, until the great crash...

After the crash, some VERY smart minds de-constructed what took place and determined the root causes for this economic meltdown. Practically all of this was fueled by the rampant excesses of the completely DE-REGULATED securities markets. Because big business was essentially allowed to police itself, the excesses and leveraged risks kept inflating the bubble to the point where it burst. Much like it did at the end of 2008 most recently. Following the depression, it was widely accepted that greed had gotten the best of the financial markets and big business and the entire country (well, except for the top 1% again of course) were unanimous that we needed to be protected from these excesses. We enacted the Glass-Stiegel (sp?) act to limit this exposure. The country got along quite well thank you until this protection was stripped by Clinton and GWB. Yes, I lay the blame where it belongs and NOT solely along party lines. Let's not forget the implicit involvement of Phil Gramm either shall we?

Unfortunately, as the country prospered and grew, so did the appetite for ever-increasing profits and greed overcame prudence once again. We had the biggest banks on wall street literally playing dice with our 401(k) plan assets. The mortgage bubble, AIG, and all the other phony, house of cards financial derivatives almost succeeded in tanking the ENTIRE global economy! Because there is no longer ANY thought or consideration regarding what is "right" or "ethical" or "in the best interests" of the country, the world, or anything else, corporations will stop at nothing to lie, manipulate, cajole, and bully their way to a profit. If that means shutting down a factory in the US that pays workers $20 per hour in order to move the manufacturing to India where they pay $5 per DAY, we all lose in the end. When those good paying jobs are lost so that the shareholders can receive an extra $0.002 per share dividend, who is there to provide for those families?

ITM, I realize you care little for the people that are now out of work because some of your right wing business friends were able to make a killing by opening a maquilladora and shutting down their US operations. I understand that, rather than continuing to support AMERICAN workers with a decent wage, big business and those that would champion their cause politically will instead make $100,000,000 instead of $75,000,000. It all comes back to IGMFU for the GOP and those that would apologize for companies like BP.

People like Joe Barton, Bobby Jindal, and Haley Barbour are already in the pockets of big business and their attitude to the rest of us is as if they were saying "I was smart enough to be first in line to suck at the BP teat. Now you all that were too stupid to overlook the death and destruction in favor of the almighty dollar can go to the back of the line."

I am pleased that your father has done well and created a thriving family business. That is an accomplishment to be proud of and I salute you for it. I also salute you and thank you for your service to this country as I recall that you did serve. If not, I apologize for my lapse in memory. Regardless, it makes me sick that someone that has been blessed with what you have cannot see that there are MANY around you that are not as fortunate. And, for the record, I am NOT talking about those that are too lazy to work or are only out to game the system. I may be a "lib" but I am also not blind or stupid and know there IS abuse and waste in the system. What I AM talking about are those that have been downsized or have had their jobs outsourced overseas or have had their jobs fall victim to these tough economic times. The mantra from the right is always "let them find a job and work for it like I did!" While this is fair enough on the one hand, it is also blind to the reality that this country shed MILLIONS of jobs during the recession and we are only just now STARTING to generate new jobs to replace those lost. Now that there are literally millions of people struggling to feed their families, we are cutting off the only means they have left? Do you think that the money that we pay in unemployment somehow gets socked away in a drawer and taken out of circulation? These people SPEND it! They are desperate and now you have pushed them on the street to beg.

While the GOP is busy condemning millions of families to financial ruin and becoming destitute, the GOP is poised to drastically reduce, if not eliminate the estate tax. While that might be great for you ITM, it does nothing for those suffering from hunger and lack of employment. While we eliminate TRILLIONS in future revenue by giving yet another multi trillion dollar tax cut to the uber rich, where does that leave the rest of us? Yes, YOU may be doing well, but when the rest of the country is scared they will lose their job and have NO income and NO safety net, how much do you think people will want to spend to go out for BBQ once the economy implodes?

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that, even YOU can understand that when we ALL are doing well and prosperous, we ALL benefit. If people have more money and confidence, that helps the economy and the rich get richer by selling goods and services. The middle class is what made America what it is today. Unfortunately, the middle class is under constant attack by those that are motivated only by a desire to beat last year's quarterly results and will close factories, ship jobs overseas, hire illegal aliens, use sea water instead of drilling mud, work to overturn and eliminate inspections and oversight, and generally destroy all that is good for America simply to squeeze a few more pennies from the workforce.

I am sorry for my long-winded reply but you raised issues I felt needed to be addressed and you did so in a somewhat lucid and reasoned manner and wanted to return the favor.

Disgusted:

I actually agree with you on most of your post.

Where I have a problem is when Liberals just lay blame generically at Republicans feet for every financial ill this country has faced.

Are there not rich and super rich Democrats? Actually some of the richest in the world are Democrats.

Democrats have just as much to do with the financial ills as Republicans. It is just that the Republicans will get blamed because Democrats deamonize the party so as to the minority races in the country automatically believe the evil Republicans will put you in the soup line.

When I look at a super rich (white man) most are; I don't see a R or a D, I just see rich.

ITM,

Thank you for your gracious post and for your civility. Under these terms of engagement, I could come to enjoy our little exchanges. Now, please allow me the same courtesy of responding to each of your specific retorts.

I can appreciate your position that you feel many on my side are laying blame generically at the feet of the Bush administration. At the same time, personally speaking, I can (and have in prior posts) provided specific examples of how the Bush administration spent this nation into the ground and gave the proceeds to the rich and moneyed upper echelon of society on BOTH sides of the aisle. I do not hate Bush, per se, and I will agree that he did what HE felt was best for this country. As much as I vehemently disagreed with his policies, I NEVER disrespected the office of MY President even though I abhorred his policies.

You are absolutely correct that SOME of the richest people in the country are on the (D) side of the aisle. I can concede that if YOU can concede that (for the most part) many MORE billionaires and millionaires are on the (R) side. I am not demonizing people for being successful, this is what made America great and I am a capitalist 100%. I am also; however, not looking to allow robber barons of EITHER stripe rape the national treasury in the name of my defense or whatever other flimsy excuse is being used.

Yes, there is blame on both sides of the aisle, but let's look at constituencies and the numbers behind each. On the left, we have the people that make this nation function. We are the labor that turns the machines of industry. We need each other yet more often than not, the Republicans identify with and champion the cause of, big business. By doing so consistently and with a vengeance never before seen in American politics, they have attacked and demonized the left and, in the process, decimated the lower and middle classes that you NEED to be able to keep your industry running and the profits pouring in. When you have shipped the last US job to China and India and nobody here can afford to buy your products, what will your profit margin look like to you?

I think we may have a lot more in common than you think if we can both agree to continue this positive discourse and refrain from heaping epithets, sweeping generalizations, or bloviating on ANY subject without providing supporting documentation or detailed explanation. I would also dearly like to agree that we will answer EVERY question posed to each other in the interests of full discussion and trying to understand where you are coming from.

This might actually be educational for many other regulars here. :)

Disgusted:

I agree. When a person comes to me correct, I will do the same. Where the discourse gets ragged is when people start with the little MSNBC slogans; Rethugligans, Rethugs, Stale male and Pale, Party of No, GOBP, etc. This automatically shifts a person into F'u mode. The name calling hasn't gotten one person a job nor has it knocked off any incumbent from either side off. It has only managed to divide the country in half.

Then there is the race issue. I have even been told I wasn't black because I'm a Republican. See this is another reason most black Republicans stay in the shadow because of the name calling (Uncle Tom, House N..etc). I feel the Democrat Party has placed these sentiments within the psychy of African Americans as to where they don't accept someone that do not believe as most do.

Colin Powell would have been destroyed personally by the Democrats had he became POTUS just because he was a Republican. Democrats will say they would have respected him but we all know deep down they would have killed the guy.

As far as shipping jobs overseas. Can you blame an employer? With the trade laws we have (enacted by Democrats) you would have to be a foolish businessman to not want to reduce your overhead. People in America will always buy the cheapest products. There are just as many Democrat business owners as there are Republicans. It cuts both ways.

What I try to convey is that a POLITICIAN IS A POLITICIAN and we should not just automatically put our total trust in them on both sides. Those professional politicians KNOW how to manipulate and hide and out- manuever the best people monitoring their moves. We as a people turn them into professionals by re-electing them over and over. Look at all of those old geezers and geezettes. They come on T.V. with the fake smiles and the old cliche' "It is not my party, it is the other party" and we just eat it up even though they are about as phony as a 3 dollar bill.

I respect Obama as POTUS but he is a POLITICIAN and he is going to do what is best for Obama first. Believe me he is thinking about his legacy, re-election and it is all factored into every move he makes. It is ALL calculated.

ITM,

Yes, I have had friends also tell me similar things that they have encountered by being told they were not black enough, etc. I think that is reprehensible as we are ALL citizens and entitled to make up our own minds based on our own feelings, perceptions, and upbringing. I do not believe that anyone should have to be ashamed of their political leanings. Having said that, I would qualify that to state that nobody should have to be ashamed of reasonable political leanings and positions that they can at least defend, explain, and justify in THEIR words and NOT words that are fed to them by ANY source. If you have a brain and are not afraid to use it, I am very interested in a reasonable and lucid discourse.

As to Colin Powell, I think you may be somewhat correct, but only to a point. Myself, for example, had the utmost respect for Powell, not because he is black and obviously not because he is a Republican. I respected Powell because he served his country with dignity and honor and, but for that one little bit of lies that he was essentially fed from the administration and put up to delivering to the UN, he was ethical and stood for what he believed was right. He was the lone voice of reason in the WH at the time of the rush to war in Iraq and, as the ONLY member of the inner circle that had ANY actual military experience and KNEW what war was like, SHOULD have been given more deference. But, history took us where it did and Powell will be forever tarnished by his service to the President that had no loyalty to anything but what he desired to do in Iraq and destroyed one of this country's best military minds in the process (in a political sens that is).

As for sending jobs overseas, no, I do not blame the employers. I understand the profit motive in business and that is the engine of our economy. What I disagree with, as it seems you do as well, is the tax breaks and incentives offered to business to move these jobs. If we insist on paying business to decimate the workforce of this country without regard to the long term damage done to this nation and our economic engine, what right do we have to complain that our people are out of work, have no incomes, and cannot spend money in the economy to fan the flames of a recovery? Is it the Democrats or Republicans that have done this? Obviously, it is both. Clinton started the process and GWB accelerated it at a frightening pace. We need to immediately address these tax breaks and credits that are taking money out of the treasury, sending OUR jobs and economic capacity overseas, receiving NOTHING in return, and are jeopardizing our future for no other reason than to line the pockets of those collecting dividends.

Yes, a large part of the problem is that Americans want the cheapest products, generally speaking. But, when there is NO option to buy American, or when it is not presented in such a way as to present a viable alternative, what can we do? If you were to show me two equal products and one cost $2.00 more, but was marketed such that it would create and/or keep an AMERICAN job and help OUR economy, I would gladly pay the extra $2.00 and I believe most patriotic Americans would too. But, with business running things and moving almost ALL manufacturing jobs OUT of the country, where are the products that ARE still manufactured here for us to purchase and support our own companies? If we are not given the option and we do not DEMAND that something be done to reverse this process, there will be nobody left with enough disposable income to be able to enjoy a night out at a local BBQ restaurant, no matter how good or personable the proprietor may be. Again, speaking in general terms only (although it would not be too hard to substantiate with actual numbers if need be), if you are truly honest I think you will agree that while there ARE many well off Democrat business owners, the majority identify more with the Republican crowd. Yes, there are notable exceptions like Gates, et. al., but they are just that, the exception. As long as Republicans occupy the positions of power in Washington, history suggests that big business will get far more breaks proportionally that will the labor force. If the Republicans continue to allow big business to decimate our labor market to the point we are no longer a consumer nation because we are all too consumed with the desperate need to feed our families, all thought of luxury items and non-essential purchases becomes moot.

Yes, politicians are politicians. I wish there was a way to truly gauge the measure of a candidate BEFORE they are elected. Unfortunately, I do not have a crystal ball or time machine with which to foretell who is corrupt, aligned with interests contrary to my own, or is a genuine well-intentioned individual that will put the needs of the Country ahead of their own personal ambitions. Until then, all we can do is INDEPENDENTLY assess, research, and analyze the candidate's statements, positions, and arguments on the issues. When I see a politician tell me that the oil spill in the Gulf is "no big deal" or someone apologizes to BP or tells me that we do not need to reign in the excesses on Wall Street, I know exactly where THEIR motivations lie and I will not be part of placing them in a position to hurt MY personal interests even more than has already been done. Yes, we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum from each other,; however, we are BOTH looking to do the same thing. We both want to live our lives in peace with enough of an income to adequately take care of our families and provide for their future in a world free of pollution and war. Yes, an ideal, but one we ALL strive for nonetheless. The only difference between us is that you believe that aligning with those that are on the side of big business (more often than not anyway) is the way to take America where we all want her to be. I, on the other hand, believe strongly that the ONLY way for America to stay great and to re-assume our rightful position at the top of the global food chain is to return the real power to the people that made America what it is. The working middle class that labors in the factories and the stores and is the true economic engine of this nation. If we are driven to poverty (as the policies and obstructionism of the Republicans seems to indicate their desire to do just that), this nation is in serious danger and our mighty economy will be devastated to the point it could be decades before there is any real recovery. The only question I have and the real concern to me is if/when will those on the Right that are NOT willing or able to have this type of a reasoned discourse on such vital issues wake up and realize what is TRULY at stake and that those in the Right Wing media are simply tools of the major corporations to keep the populace afraid, unaware, and uninformed of what the REAL issues are and how they are working AGAINST their best interests.

I look forward to your responses.