It was the right call. Our President did what he needed to do. I believe President Obama will stick to the withdrawal timelines he stated in his plan. We will not be there forever...though it may seem like it.

I think you're right Ron - I guess I was just hoping that this boneheaded move on Stanley's part might have sped it up a 'tich' more!

Ride with me for a minute you two.

I can't help but feel that McChrystal just fell on his sword today. He is NOT a dumb man. He is an extremely smart General. So why risk this? He was in an untenable position. He was given everything he asked for and it wasn't working. It wasn't prudent or expedient; but it certainly further divides the country between those who support the military at all costs regardless of what works or doesn't and those who think war is the last possible answer and a zero sum game is not a win. Further, the BP situation provides the proper wedge for Corporate versus Individual rights.

Fox is probably having a FIELD day with this. Either way you slice it - Our country was served an injustice from within and it all appears to be political from my midwestern perch. How low will the Repubs go to rip the fabric of this country to shreds? I don't think we've seen the depths and there are Glenda Becky and Crush Lintball passing out shovels so they can dig a little deeper in the well boys.

Feisty, you probably ought to get the popcorn popper out and stock up on the butter and salt,...this ride isn't nearly over.

He didn't fall on it, Clara. He sat on it. Ouch.

Even though they have rectified the situation, the fallout is going to dog the military. President Obama has put the hammer down on this and he has shown his power.

Now that the talking heads are getting their ducks in a row which is hard enough for some media, the amount of confusion that will be supplied will be for the independents and middle road travelers to digest on. Is the glass half empty, or half full, tastes great, less filling?

But with the Republithugs in a schizophrenic state, it won't take much.

Clara--I think you are on to something. It is possible that McChrystal just had an enormous ego & he and his staff were out of control but it could also be an out from a situation that he couldn't win. Now he can say we would have won if he'd been in charge. How long do you think it will take for him to turn up on Fox?

I can only assume Rupert personally provided the 'secret' transportation away from the white house today, Steeler Fan.

PS. The falling on the sword wasn't meant in the traditional Japanese 'honor' move; but rather a sacrificial lamb on the right to further amp up the rhetoric from that side of the aisle.

Clara: I think you are right on. McChrystal is a smart man and he knew what he was doing. This problem will haunt us for some time. You are tuned in on this guy. What do you think is his agenda?

Perhaps he knows the inevitable and he is protecting himself?? Facinating

Clara - it didn't make sense to me either. The only think I could glean from this situation is that the Afghan situation is NOT getting any better and the CIC wanted results. Since the results were not there, you 'take one for the team' and then it is not your headache anymore. Will Gen. McChrystal take his lumps and just retire? I guess we will see.

The takeaway from this whole situation is that the CIC - President Obama - really DOES have the upper hand - and is willing to use it, in this case - and it is driving the people who hate him absolutely batsh!t.

Hatred is an interesting phenomenon... it CONSUMES those who are seduced by it. I submit that at least 1/2 of this country is being seduced by hatred. This hatred is manifested in many ways, but we need to get a handle on it - and FAST as a country. That BP oil spill is a sign that we really need to pull together - FAST - or else we will not have a country. For those of you that believe in higher beings, NOW is the time to get them to help the ol' US of A.

We are sick and will die if we don't control this hatred.

More good thoughts to ponder and why I enjoy FR. Good discussion with ideas popping in that I did not think about.

I heard a bit of the McChrystal's own plan wasn't working yesterday and possibly he just wanted out. My mind doesn't quite wrap around that idea because he is an excellent general, smart and savvy--it just doesn't make sense that he would use Rolling Stone to get out. He could have requested a private talk with Gates, Patreaus or President Obama to express his concerns. I tend to think he is cocky and figured he could get away with it again. In California, I worked with plenty of former military admirals, generals, etc. Some thought they ruled and the rest of us should cater to their demands (that's how I see McChrystal); most were the opposite.

yes there is a lot of hatred towards obama look at whar he is doing to the gulf coast ,as if there pain is;nt bad enough he is hell bent on looseing the oil job ot other countries .he just has to have his shut down so thousands of more people will go on unemployment but these jobs want be back because once they move their gone and most of the hatred I read on these comments are from the left . always gripeing about fox or what howcome the right dont want to go along with obamas agenda these people must watch fox to know so much about it. everytime I watch it at least they have both sides opinions .why else are they the higheset watched . more than all others combined.

Thank you Mr. President. Now the whinning and sniveling begins. Let the games begin.

Cali Tom, General Betrayus will save the Afghan situation?

Was MoveOn.org happy before?

Point taken.

OK...

Well, that's done.

Can we move on to trashing Chuckie T for telling Andrea Mitchell that the Gulf oil catastrophe is the straw that's breaking the camel's back of the President's job approval numbers?

Lots more on the new NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll still to come...Todd's gonna be busy today!

No. I'm very happy to trash Chuckie T. any six days of the week and twice on Sunday, but not for that. It may be wrong, but he may be right. If you know what I mean.

You do know exactly how to get my goat, MB. Some things never change.

My issue with the media, including Chuck, is not the poll numbers but the fact that when they report it, they inject their personal storyline with it. Walter Cronkhite did not do that with one exception. In my opinion, the polls reflect what the media has fed people who do not pay attention--you only have to look at the direction of the oil spill discussion to realize that the media drives the storyline and along with it the opinion.

I only learned he was involved in that last evening. It's even more reason why he has to go.

Why do you try to justify everything with "Obama was out front". He had no choice in this matter but to appoint Petraeus in the interim. Petreaus in the head of Central Command and is the only one with knowledge of the inner workings within the Afghan strategy.

This was not a matter of being smarter than anyone else. The man resigned. He made it easy. In the end if this war goes on you all will see he needed Mc more than Mc needed him.

We are not coming out of Afghanistan for another 10+ years. Clinton said that my rotation into Bosnia back in November 2006 was the last rotation. WE still have troops there today.

Gee ITM,

I was not aware that it was so obvious that Petraeus was the only choice Obama had. I was looking back over the last few days worth of posts and must have missed yours where you postulated that the President would make this move.

Heck, looks like your team here needs to communicate better since No Jo just complimented HIS President on TWO correct decisions in a row... Maybe Glenda and LimpBalls got their echo chamber signals crossed and sent out conflicting talking points... Ruh Ro Reorge!

IM ~ That's not entirely true. Chris posted earlier about two other choices, Generals Rodriguez and Dempsey. Rodriguez is the commander at Kabul, and manages the day-to-day fighting. So I think he's also got a clue. The NYT article posted by Diogenes also mentions at least one other possibility. But Petraeus is interesting because it's not necessarily a promotion, if you look at it on an org chart -- he WAS commander of Centcom, and therefore technically McChrystal's superior officer. I wonder who will take Petraeus's place. That may be even more interesting.

Anna Molly-

You believe that, in the end, this will actually be a demotion for Petraeus?

Interesting take.

Not really. I mentioned it just to be contrary and also because whoever they place at Centcom theoretically becomes Petraeus's uber boss. Don't you think that's interesting?

If McChrystal resigned willingly, why did he tell reporters this morning that he did NOT intend to.

So, Petraeus is the best thing since sliced bread now? As I recall, the Dems, and many posters on this site, were calling him some pretty ugly names a year or so ago. What changed?

See No Jo this is what happens when a person (not nessarly the President) does not just shoot from the Hip and make a decision on moment notice. removing him from Afgan is a major decision and should not be made because your mad.

Yes the president was mad but I'm sure if he didn't have a general with the experince to take over, McCrystal would still be there.

If you're such a proud Republican, what are you doing on MSNBC/First Read? And I wouldn't be so proud if I were insulting and judging our President. Your self-pride only shows your ignorance and arrogance.

K2mn

I'm a moderate Republican and I'm on here every day. I like to see the other side's point of view. I already know what I'm going to hear on a Republican site.

Got to love the moderate with a name like Lynchmob. But seriously, no President has any idea how to lead the military from that office because there is no job on earth to prepare you. It is something that has to be learned, and that is why every President gets advisers. The key is to elect a President that is capable of learning quickly and is capable of receiving information from many sources before making the best decision. If you don't believe this President is doing that then I have to question if you are being objective in your assessment.

When was the last time moveon had anything to say about either war? When was the last time there was any protest about either war?

Generals come and go, but the war goes on...sad

Diogenes-

Correct me if I'm wrong...but would that have been before President Obama was elected?

Everything changed then.

What I miss most is the lack of fondness for political dissent...it used to be so popular, too.

That sure works for me... It's an effort in futility... It's time to bring our troops home.

Oha My GOD!!!!! No Jo you have compliminted the president. let me watch for flying pigs!!!!

I know that hurt you to type, njbjnj; but I appreciate your willingness to grit through the pain.

Good point. We need to remember that Petraeus is the architect of the Iraq surge, which means it will get worse before it gets better, and like Iraq, it may never be completely finished.

Or IS that the strategy?

Yellowdog, the chattering class had already decided that withdrawal wasn't the right path and the military was leaking information that they wanted to escalate but weren't being allowed. Given the cards he was dealt I believe Obama got the best deal possible. The hawks got an escalation. The President put a time limit on the escalation and strict instructions that this be a "secure and hand off" operation with no tolerance for just chasing baddies around the mountains in circles. If it worked he'd be a hero for bringing this endless war to a close. Since it isn't the hawks are exposed for their faulty policy. Heads I win, tails you lose.

Patreaus was also part of the decision making on the current Afghan strategy of counterinsurgency. It did work in Iraq but who knows about Afghanistan where many still live as they did in the 19th century.

Nothing is ever completely finished, Anna Molly-

We still have troops in Germany and other parts of Europe and Japan (and environs), as the residue of the Second World War that ended 65 years ago. And then, there's the U.S. forces still in the Balkans after the Bosnian conflict...

As long as the United States is and remains the United States...it's not going to end.

I agree...it would be easier to simply walk away from confronting totalitarianism and stick to addressing issues on the home front. That's what the isolationist Republicans urged in the 1930s.

Sorry...I prefer not to be associated with their views on the role of the United States in world events.

Really? What's our path to victory? How will we know when we get there? How long will it take? What will it cost? What will Afghanistan look like when we finish?

Hey Juven,

Just curious... How many Generals did Dubya dismiss over his 8 years? Were you critical of Dubya for not being able to keep a General or is this just more of your partisan bull puckey and blind derision for anything OUR President attempts to do? Do you ever offer anything positive and constructive or is your hatred for America and your desire to see America so compelling that you just have to tear down anything and everything YOUR President does in the name of ALL Americans?

Oh, and as for hanging on to Dubya's coattails by appointing Petraeus again, see my comment above. I believe that he was chosen not because Obama is beholden to the FAILED war strategy (not Tactics Dubya lovers) that was formed, implemented, and massaged for 7 years on Dubya's watch but to placate the narrow minded blowhards that were bound and determined (and in fact already lying in wait with their moronic analyses of how the President again somehow stumbled) and managed in one fell swoop to deflate many of those arguments.

Given that No Joe seems to at least temporarily come to his senses, either the parallel universe has replaced the real one or the echo chamber has SERIOUSLY crossed their signals over this issue. I give it a day or two until you all pow wow with Glenda and Co. and come up with a better and more unified (whole still moronic) position on the issue.

JuvenBachan, You are just wrong and silly and totally uninformed.

given the length of time to reappear with the format change - and to whomever had 'slightly less than four weeks' in the Libs R Us pool of when Juvenile would eventually find his butt,...

You can now claim your reward. I think it was you, Feisty! ha ha

The President was very gracious to Gen. McChrystal in his comments just now . . . too bad there aren't more folks with class in leadership roles in our country.

Or commenting on blogs.

Dunno how you can type while wearing that nice, white jacket with the sleeves in the back!

After last week's fainting spell, I hope that the general is physically up to this.

Don't forget WHO got us in the messes we're in! Republicans have such short memories and such closed minds/blind eyes!

"Given that No Joe seems to at least temporarily come to his senses".............

*******************************************************************

No, that doesn't sound AT ALL patronizing. Hey, Obama is the CIC. This is his decision he made over a general that broke the code of conduct. So be it. Still, no one here will be able to convince me that, if this were Bush, the same people on this site praising Obama would be calling Bush a dictator. It's a fact.

I don't know much about military protocol but if the people here who do (especially the least rabid ones), think it was the right decision, I'll go with that.

Chuckie,

Let me remind you that it was Dubya himself that speculated about his being a Dictator. He was dreaming of the days that the USA would be a dictatorship and he would be the dictator. Surely you have not forgotten THAT little gem of a "Bushism"...

Thanks Clara!

Looks like Mom forgot to take the keyboard to work with her again...lol

;)

No problem. Someone sets 'em up - I try to knock 'em down!

Haven't heard a whole lot of criticism from Republicans on the move yet.

Haven't heard any, really...

Oh, you are NOT in the minority. You succinctly stated my point above. There are no accidents. This was designed. More than likely to get out.

Excellent point Maggie, until an officer is relieved of command or has reached his or her tenure in the command position, the only way out other other than being killed or injured is to torpedo yourself and render your resignation.

This explanation makes the most sense to me.

I see things differently maggie - I think the fact that he's very disciplined at all times is exactly why these things 'slipped out' while the RS reporter spent a relatively large amount of time with him. One tends to let his guard down when, and only when, he feels comfortable ... McChrystal 'normally' has his guard up; during this reporters visit, he got 'too ' comfortable and let that guard down - thus, revealing his true self!

Just my opinion :)

Another point .... Obama had the option of NOT accepting McChrystal's resignation and firing him. It shows interity on Obama's part that he 'allowed' him to resign - with a 'lil' dignity

I have the same analyse, you're right. I think that McC is very intelligent.

He understood very well the afghan context, that its not a war against al qaeda, but an ethnic war between pashtoon and other minorities (he said that in the French News "Le Figaro" in september).

I think that he understood that we can't have a victory, the only question is to prevent defeat. The National Afghan Army is tadjeek, hazara and uzbek, and they are strangers in the south of their own country. Look the power of ethnic rivalry in kyrgystan.

@Leslie H : McC did accept the text of Rolling Stone before parution. He was aware of the consequences of that.

No question McChrystal knew what he was doing. He knew that COIN would take FAR longer than next summer and a whole lot MORE troops than Obama gave him. His three choices were:

1. Support a plan he knew was doomed to failure.

2. Quit in the middle of a mission.

3. Speak his mind and let the boss fire him if he couldn't handle the truth.

Obama chose to go all in and fire him and that makes Afghanistan all the more Obama's war. No more blaming GWB. It will be very interesting to see all the "rah! rah!" Obama cheerleaders here today eating crow if this thing goes bad from here.

McChrystal is intelligent, but so was MacArthur. Eventually, both of their egos overcame their intelligence. In MacArthur's case, it ran as far as delusion. With McChrystal, we won't have to find out.

I don't know that he "wanted" to get out as much as he wanted attention called to the situation.

In my mind nothing will ever make this President Obama's war. The truth is once boots are on the ground it is 100 time more difficult to get them off. So much easier and popular to be the guy to yell charge much more difficult to sound retreat. It should be noted that President Bush had every opportunity not to go in and if he went in set guide lines. He didn't, so regardless of what is done from that point on he is the culprit. If President Obama invades Iran or North Korea and leaves office those will be his wars, but not this one. For those of you who think he had to go in please remember, the folks that killed all those people on 9/11 were not in any countries military. The taliban is a anchor-less para-military organization and we should have dealt with them as such. Not respondto the anger and revenge (me included) that we all felt. Too many innocent lives have been spent on both sides and the number one perpetrator is still breathing.