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Subscribe to RSSNBC's Athena Jones reports that President Obama was asked a question at a "pool spray" about whether he'd fire Gen. McChrystal.
Obama declined to say if he would. Instead, he said the following:
He's on his way here. I will meet with him. [Defense Secretary] Gates will meet with him. It's clear the article shows poor judgment, but I also want to make sure I talk to him directly before I make any decisions.
Even as he is on his way, central focus is success in making sure Al Qaeda and affiliates cannot attack us and its allies. People are making enormous sacrifices. So whatever decision I make is determined on making sure we have a strategy that justifies the sacrifice.
NBC's Chuck Todd reports that despite some reports to the contrary, McChrystal has not offered his resignation, according to two senior administration aides. However, he has informed his superiors that he is prepared to do so.
It's semantics to some, but important semantics in this case.
A senior aide also said there is a path for McChrystal to save his job. Everything depends on how the meeting with the president goes tomorrow morning.
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Uh oh...
Looks like the President is cranking himself up into "action" mode...
This is a rare event, folks...
Enjoy the spectacle.
MB,
We enjoy the spectacle every time wing nuts like you post stuff like this. It is rather funny how someone that wants to wrap themselves in the flag and proclaim their patriotism are so vehemently wanting to tear down and undermine our President so that America can fail to reach our potential. Why do you hate America so much?
this guy is off the reservation. He disgraces our country and our men and women in uniform. It is time to change our posture. I don't think getting out entirely is OK but Bidens stratergy is a better one and would cost less lives and money.
Nice to see you're still alive, Disgusted-in-PA...
I must have missed your input on the Mexican government joining the Obama Administration's lawsuit against Arizona.
Your input is always welcome here...
On ALL topics.
And...you've already forgotten, haven't you?
Dissent is only dissent...it isn't hatred.
I wish I could look into President Obama's eyes and tell him not to surrender to the histrionics around him. Hold his own counsel on this and do what he knows is best for us. The General has disrespected you, you office, and the electorate of these United States of America. If he truly believed what he said, he should never have accepted deployment, but resigned rather than put the young men and women he was honor bound to lead in danger. He needs to go! You cannot afford to have any one on the front line that does not support you in total! Mayhaps you need to be less guarded and be a little bit "us" for a minute. Get these folks in line. Let them feel the steel. Stop taking it! They already crucify you no matter what you do, give them a real reason, make them backup and off.
Please, don't pussy foot around with the Oil Barons. Cancel all the leases. Let them have the moratorium. Cancel the leases. No need to go back to court. Show them you really mean it! YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT! P l e a s e, cancel all the leases until you know the drilling is safe.
Backing out of leases would be like breach of contract. That would set us on a slippery slope of precedence, similar to what almost happened in the financial crisis. Not to mention the economic issues at risk as described in the judge's decision. Not to mention inspire a lack of confidence.
Presidents can't pick and choose which laws they like and which laws they don't. Seems to be a lot of that going on. Laws on the books have to be honored. If the President doesn't like a law, Congress has to write a new one. President Obama was a Constitutional professor, wasn't he? Then, he should know this.
you are right on i could not have said it better, thank you
you are right on i could not have said it better, thank you
FIRE THE PUNK !! He has been a problem for years now .. the guy is a douche bag !!!
The contempt this General showed for this Administration should never have been known to either us or to the rest of the world. Never.
It's time President Obama made this Administration his own. It's what we ALL want. Well, everyone except for the neocons of course. They still don't get it and as far as I'm concerned, their visions of grandeur have gone on long enough.
I hope President Obama shakes the General's hand, thanks him for his service (as we all do) and accepts his resignation if offered, as is being reported. It is the most dignified way to handle this. And there's nothing wrong with dignity. We need more of it in this country.
Well said, Pat, Boston, MA
Actually, Pat ... I don't thank him for his part in the Pat Tillman cover-up. There's a dark side to this guy that isn't fully known ... yet.
Yes Anna I realize that. And I can think of dozens of military leaders throughout our history who are heroes to many, but not to me. And many of them as well had a dark side.
The Rolling Stone reporter said he got a lot of his information on a bus when the ash closed airports because the general and others were drinking. He never misrepresented himself. If the general is that naive or frankly, just stupid, how effective of a leader can he be? General McCrystal sounds as if he knows Afghanistan is failing under his watch and he's sussing out a scapegoat. He can offer his resignation then proclaim he would have pulled it out. Hardly. When Karzai is your biggest ally, that sends a negative message.
Or maybe General McCrystal spoke out of turn on purpose; maybe in his mind being fired for insubordination is better than continued failure on the battlefied.
They broke the leases when they lied on the documents utilized to secure those leases! Before you use the politically accepted term for lie "mis-spoke", they lied! They breached those contracts.
And Obama didn't cause the Financial Crisis he merely charged with fixing it. I could care less about the economic issues at risk described by the bought and paid for judge. That oil is still spewing, no one can stop, and only a Oil Barony Stooge would flagrantly endorse drilling more wells before they can stop the current one.
I do not support the destruction of an ecosystem for the almighty greed of Big Oil.
Who lied? The oil companies and rig operators who applied for the leases/permits? Or the MMS that approved them? Or both? I believe one of the reasons the judge ruled the way he did was that the government couldn't state what the safety concerns were since the government already approved the permits (ie: attesting to the safety of the operations).
No one said President Obama caused the Financial Crisis. I don't remember if it was President Bush or President Obama, or maybe Congress, who during the financial crisis wanted to allow bankruptcy judges to re-write contracts. This would have weakened the integrity of contracts in general, so that idea was nixed. We have to be careful about invalidating agreements. Could you imagine how the world would be if contracts meant nothing?
Just because the judge ruled against the President doesn't mean he's bought and paid for. Sheesh. Maybe he just knows Louisiana law better than the President!
You should care about the economic issues as well as the environmental ones. People, your fellow Americans and fellow human beings work on those rigs and provide for their families. Shutting them down under unlawful circumstances (by over-reacting or political posturing) will cause additional suffering to the folks in the Gulf. President Obama is very quick to cause additional suffering while telling people to sacrifice and be patient.
I think the rigs can be re-inspected while they are operating. This time, the MMS might take their inspections a little more seriously.
LDBean
Do you even know you are on the wrong page?
Yes, I know. Totally off topic. LD Bean brought it up earlier on this page. Sorry!
McChrystal violated the military code of justice, violated his oath of office, when he made public statements against his commander in chief.
If he feels so strongly about the direction of the war, he should resign his commission and speak out against the policies with which he disagrees.
However, this way is simply wrong, and undermines military discipline.
The Arab world was stunned when Obama traveled the world and denounced his predecessor/apologized for America. Seems the Arab world is not as progressive as Obama, even tribal people know you don't leave your village and talk bad of it to others. Same is true for McChyrstal, a general doesn't talk bad of his commander. If Obama has any respect in the Arab world left, it will utterly and completely be gone if he doesn't dismiss McChrystal, the man Obama picked and put in charge.
Sadly, the salient and most important point of Obama's strategy is the announced pull out in 1 year. This provision of the Obama strategy was made to appease the left and his progressives. Anyone in touch with reality knows this is folly and that even the greatest military in history cannot prevail under insane condition. Our allies know it and are drawing down/pulling back - we are 450 trainers short right now. The Taliban know they they will be there after we leave, and sadly every village elder knows it too. Karzai knows it and is talking with the Taliban.
American deaths for the period January thru May 2010 are EIGHT TIMES the averaged rate for the same period under Bush. In 17+ months under Obama we have lost more American lives than we lost in the first 87 months of the war under Bush. To borrow from Biden - "Mr. President, This is a big f..king deal."
Obama's strategy justifies the sacrifice?
2001
12
2002
49
2003
48
2004
52
2005
99
2006
98
2007
117
2008
155
2009
317
2010
185
Total
1132
Looks to me like the period when the casualty rate started to escalate was around 2005-2006, when they were flat. That includes the years under both presidents.
Michael
Fighting in Afghanistan is somewhat seasonal due to weather, heroin crops, etc., with the deadliest months historically being June, July, August, September and October - hence the qualification for the period. For the period January thru May, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 we lost 103 in Afghanistan due to hostile action for a yearly average of 14.71. For the period January thru May 2010 we lost 126 in Afghanistan due to hostile action. 126 divided by 14.71 = 8.57. Our current loss rate under Obama is 8.57 times the average loss rate under Bush for the same respective period.
July 2009 broke the record as the single deadliest month of the war. That record was broken in August 2009. September 2009 became the third deadliest single month of the war behind the two previous record setting months. October 2009 broke the record becoming the deadliest single month of the war. November was the deadliest November of the war. Obama announced his plan/strategy for Afghanistan in December 2009 after having only consulted with his new commanding general once in the commander's first 100 days of command when record deaths were occurring. December was the deadliest December of the war.
Obama is an inept liberal that does not have the political courage to sustain losses necessary to win. The Taliban know this and they are capitalizing on it. Obama's ROE are insane to the Taliban and they are capitalizing on them. Obama's deadline is ignorant of reality and doomed - the world knows it.
Yet, as Obama himself has stated, this is the war that needs to be fought, we have to win. I agree. I just wish we had a capable Commander in Chief, that truly honored our service men and women's sacrifice and could provide them with "a strategy that justifies the sacrifice".
Good evening Guys and and Gals,
First let me say that I've followed these discussions that have been on-going between our fellow citizens.
Eric/Fiesty/IMT/Jody/Redneck/Endurance/No Joe/et all/.. I can't name you all, and I apoligize for those I miissed...
Secondly let me also say that this is one of the most informed post of the many I have read.
As for me, I am a PROUD member (retired) of the greatest military force this planet has ever seen--24 years in USAF. AIRPOWER!!
Anyway, the reason I have decided to post, instead of only read, is that I am totally disappointed wih GEN Mc C.. He has violated one of the principles I hold most dear. I served my country with the full understanding that our founding Fathers put civilians in charge so that we--America--would NEVER--be under the control of a military junta!!
As a vet, and yes, No Joe, I am A Government Civilian--but I use my years of service to train those who are going to face the things I have faced and prepare them so that do not have to learn OJT! Perhaps, in a small way, I can continue to contribute to the country that has given me so much. So..BACK OFF!
Nuff Said. Progressives, Keep the Faith!!
Ricky R. Fowler, MSgt, USAF, Retired
Ricardo12, welcome, I look forward to reading more of what you have to say, and about the experiences you have had. I am thankful for your service to our country.
Same for me Ricardo Come around and see us more often now you hear
Clearly, McChrystal must do the honorable thing here in the end, and resign--or be fired. Moving forward, however, one has to wonder how this will unfold if the general chooses not resign...
Do you think Barack OilBama will need his trusty teleprompter to utter "You're fired"??
Yes, the disrespectful general must go, and this unqualified moron residing at 1600 must go.
Dear RezkObama: You and the general have been so outed! The things the general "said" lurk in the heart of many just like you - even in combat against a known enemy you cannot acquiesce to the leadership of a "(insert n-word)! And you are not alone...you are legion! You are despicable! You are disrespectful. You lack upbringing - you have no conscience and no heart. There is a special place reserved for you and your kind in hell..... The General and you are to be pitied and not scorned! Now, First Read, you can suspend me or whatever you choose - I'm fed up with your sensationalism also. God loves you, but I AM NOT THAT GOOD!
What on earth are you blathering on about?
r u rezkObama?
If you are trying to make some obscure point do that by putting your thoughts down in complete and readable sentences. Otherwise, you are taking up space with gibberish.
If you are "rszkObama", you know what I am talking about - if, in fact, you can read "gibberish". If you are not "rszkObama", shut up and stop wasting space! Is this grammatically correct?
Why do you object to being asked to post your thoughts in coherent order? This is not your cell phone.
Unfortunately I have to agree with Obama and also feel that McCrystal needs to be dismissed because regardless of who is president our military serves the country through civilian powers. This precedent was established by George Washington and the Continental Congress during the Revolution and has been reinforced through wars in the past 235 years to the good of the USA. BUT the fact that a high ranking general had the audacity to sanction interviews by his staff with a Left of Left magazine speaks worlds of where we have arrived as a nation. When the ACLU demanded the release of more "Abu Grab photos last year I was willing to bet that somehow the military got word to Obama that releasing those photos would precipitate an exodus of key generals. Obama who desperately wants to trash Bush at every turn was disuaded by this potential "revolt" among the generals because even the New York Times in its best spin mode could not have covered for Obama in such a situation. In this case we have a general, highly respected, and hand picked by Obama looking him in the eye and saying we know you hate the military...we know that you, Biden, Reid,Pelosi, et al trashed us in Iraq but supposedly suppported us in Afghanistan, or as Obama called it the good war. Now we know in order to please the extreme left (decendents of the Soviet supporting and worshipping american left) you Mr. Obama and Biden...are ready to throw our asses under the bus. The lefty press will do their best to shore up whatever spin that the W.H. puts on this thing but the fact remains for the very first time since the Truman Mac Arthur dispute in 1951 an american general has taken his regard for the WH to the public. This situation can not be helpful in any way to Obama and will result in america in seeing exactly who we put in the WH in 2008.
What is the backup plan once McCrystal is fired? We are so deep into this war that to change "leadership" at this time may be detrimental to our troops. What are our options?
Since the election, I have begun to understand how we are perceived in other countries. Our ugliness has been magnified by too many former and current leaders, former and current pseudo leaders, outspoken commentators and so much more that has been going on in this country. The rhetoric and behaviors too many Americans have been spouting and displaying has gone beyond the pale! It's one thing to voice opinions about policies; but, it's another thing to show such blatant disrespect and hostility for the person in office and the administration that we signal to our enemies that we are extremely divided and therefore are vulnerable!
Our enemies KNOW what's happening in this country. Our allies RECOGNIZE the same. This disrespect and hostility is evident in every branch of our government. Now, one of our key players in the military has shown that these sentiments are in the ranks of the military. People, we are doing an injustice to ourselves and our country! We are opening the doors for our enemies to do more damage, and what is taking place today may help to bring an end to our Republic.
As an officer, McCrhystal has sworn an oath to obey orders of those appointed over him. He has clearly stepped over the line by running his mouth to the wrong person. He need to go and Obama need to take a firm line on this.
But let me ask a question... what happens if McChrystal gets killed in action? Do you think there is not someone readily available to step into his place? This is the military. He not only has a second in command behind him, he has a third and fourth. All of them have been in on any planning and operations. There are a number of officers ready to take his place.
My sentiment exactly! Had I not been so angry earlier, perhaps I could have said as much. Anyway, thank you for "coherently" and correctly stating my feelings!
busbus
Great point. Just think, at one point we had driven the Taliban and Al Quaida out of Afghanistan and had removed Hussein from power. Iran had stopped their nuclear program and after we dragged Hussein out of his hole, Libya came forward and said they had been meaning to call and tell us they had a nuclear program too and wanted us to come pick up their stuff. Then Bush announces that we were not going to find WMD in Iraq, (maybe because they went out before the war?) which the left translated to mean there were no WMD and wet their pants. Bush lied mantra, daily death up-dates after "mission accomplished", etc., etc. Bush/US was neutered, Iran re-fired their program and all but has the bomb, the Taliban came back and will win in a year, we lost a lot of soldiers fighting a proxy war with Iran, N. Korea is sinking S. Korean ships, Turkey has aligned with Iran, etc., etc.
Side note: Everyone in the world believed Iraq had WMD before we went in. Then Bush says that stuff about the Axis of Evil - Iraq, N. Korea, Iran, Libya, Syria. The left went nuts about Bush including all those countries with Iraq. Funny - turns out they all had programs, that is except Iraq of course.
I have no problem with partisan politics as long as the politicians represent the will of their constituents, except when it comes to a time of war, because of the reasons you mentioned.
Aside from comments on pages like these and a few opinion pieces, Obama has not been challenged on his handling of Afghanistan in any meaningful way. When it does come, don't worry. Our enemies could not see us as being any weaker, or more vulnerable than they already see us now.
The standard 3 options you keep hearing are: (1) fire him, (2) keep him or (3) refuse to accept his resignation. There may be a broader one -
Use the McCrystal brush-up to pivot into a reworked strategy in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Some background as I see it:
1. The Afghan counterinsurgency effort agreed to by everyone (including Gen. McCrystal) isn't going so well. What we keeep hearing is that the Karzai government lacks credibility. That Karzai (expecting an earlier-than-expected pull-out) is already dealing with some Taliban leaders. That the effort is progressing slower than expected in targeted areas of the region. And that the "rebuild the Afghan military" initiative is going much slower than expected.
2. Principles of effective counterinsurgency (see Kilcullen's book - "Counterinsurgency") include (a) a government worthy of acceptance by the people, (b) not harming civilians and (c) flexibility to adapt "on the fly" to change tactics daily if necessary.
3. Right now (among other things), the Karzai government doesn't appear to be accepted by a majority of the population and the drone-attacks are killing too many civilians. Which suggests that now's the time to consider a change in tactics.
4. The overriding raison d'etre for remaining in the region is "to dismember Al Qaida." But it has been pointed out that most of Al Qaida is now in Pakistan, with less than 20 left in Afghanistan. So why stay in Afghanistan? Because if we leave altogether, it will offer Al Qaida in Pakistan a safe place to escape-to across the border should efforts be stepped up there. Also - the propaganda/morale boost it would give Al Qaida and the Taliban (who predicted that "we can outwait the Americans - who will lose heart and leave prematurely anyway) along with our loss of credibility in Pakistan would undermine our goal of rooting out Al Qaida.
5. We are involved in a regional assymetric operation and need to retain some sort of presence in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. (A major problem in securing Afghanistan has been the infiltration of insurgents from across the border in Pakistan - a logical key to our success is to somehow interdict this invisible flow of fighters).
6. The argument that we've been in a "9-year war in Afghanistan" is bogus - we've been involved in two one-year wars at either end of 7 years of neglect and disengagement. To abrubtly pull out altogether would be to repeat the mistakes we made8 years ago when we diverted nearly all our resources to Iraq.
7. This is not to say we need to remain in "rebuild-the-government" mode in Afghanistan. It may be time to rethink our role there. For example, it may be time for us to confine our operations to more of a counter-terrorist (i.e. "search-for and destroy the bad guys") role instead of trying to rebuild an unbuildable backwater country.
8. Not that we can merely throw a switch and shift automatically to "get the bad guys" mode. We would still need the cooperation of both Afghan and Pakistan governments to allow us to operate as an independent vigilante-style force - which would mean that we'd still have to provide lesser amounts of money and resources (albeit with little if any hands-on strings attached).
9. Just wondering but - was that civilian who decided to personally hunt down Bin Laden onto something? Would it make sense to insert a number one/two man intelligence teams to infiltrate the tribal areas in a similar manner?
The whole point being - let's (in the words of Rahm) "take advantage of the McChrystal crisis" and use it to refine our mission and strategies in Afg/Pak.
Hi DINOS , How is General Be-tray-us? How far have the DINOS come?
Okay I dont post often but ..... Obuma says "drop the birth certificate" already. So all of a sudden it's dropped. I will just share with you this; I went to lisence branch to get my "secured photo" and I had to take in MY BIRTH CERTIFICATE, CURRENT DRIVERS LISENCE,MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, A DIVORCE CERTIFCATE TO SHOW HOW MY NAME CHANGED FROM ONE NAME TO ANOTHER.TWO PIECES OF MAIL WITH MY CURRENT NAME ADDRESS ALL DATED WITHIN LAST 60 OR 90 DAYS. Just to get my freaking SECURED DRIVERS LISCENCE.Born and raised here in Indiana. Now we got somebody giving orders, spending trillions of dollars, making and breaking new laws, putting Americans out of work. YOUR DAMN STRAIGHT HE SHOULD SHOW THE DAMN BIRTH CERTIFICATE. If I had served my country (im a girl-i'd want to be sniper they dont allow girls to be snipers so i was told and i am a "SURESHOT". They say women cannot handle the stress. I guess I somewhat agree to that to a point Im a little funny on my feelings toward that issue but back to what my point was. If I was a man of high power giving direction of our armies and determining our peoples fate I WOULD WANT "TO KNOW" 100 PERCENT WHO IM DOING THIS FOR AND WHAT IM DOING THIS FOR. This has nothing to do with being purple, blue, black, green. It is just a fact that for us we go through hell to get a damn drivers lisence yet someone comes out of the blue and now runs the country??????? I had never heard of him he just kind of popped up.......he contridicts himself ALL the time! People wanted change.....well ur getting it were all getting it thank to all that voted for him. He is ruining this country. Bash me all you want cause I could give flying @!$%#. He is taking more and more rights away from us. Now were back on Prayer Day. All the people that hate God want to take away prayer day...you know I dont mess with their belief or judge them they should NOT MESS WITH MINE, IF THEY DONT LIKE IT DONT PARTISIPATE IN IT. It really is simple......really. If your so against God as they say Satan will ALWAYS take you back. I dont like walking through gas stations and Walmart and seeing naked women everywhere I my 8 yr old daughter or husband looks either but nobody bitches about that,yet you dont want me to pray????All I can say is (Thank you for dear soliders, I truly mean that and that sacrifice that you make each and everyday. If something does not feel right in your heart following orders are not always best. As they say some rules are made to be broken) Government is out of control and way big for its ricky ass britches. Funny none of us have money but CEO of cummins last year bonus alone 10 million. JUST A BONUS! and I cannot have my surgeries done because I dont have insurance or money to pay for it??? This month doing without my med's I dont have money to pay for them. Have a good night GOD BLESS THE USA! REMEMBER WHAT YOUR FIGHTING FOR ITS "NOT" OBUMA ITS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. OUR CONSTITUTION. OUR RIGHTS!
I doubt if it will matter that the General had poor judgement one time. Obama has bad judgement EVERYDAY and he keeps his job. Oh and I'm not trying to be funny it's the truth.