Pietro,

You hit it right on the head and then some. This law can only lead to more and more restrictions on freedom. Papers Please will become common. I can see it now, going into a bar and having not to show you drivers license but Papers Please.

I heard about what they planned for the children of illegal immigrants. What is wrong with these people. How can the possiblly think that America will stand still for this? This is a very scary road to go down and I see it leading to a very bad situation.

Opps, gotta go. Sgt Schultz is at the door. Something about my papers.

This is where polls are misleading. I have no doubt that most Americans support better enforcement of the illegal immigrant laws; I think they support the idea of the AZ law. But I seriously doubt that those same Americans understand the AZ law and its implications for further enfringement on our freedoms. We have never been a country that demanded we carry proof of citizenship when travelling from town to town, state to state. I don't think supporters of the AZ law understand that if they go there, get caught speeding on the highway and look Latino you better be able to prove you're here legally.

The other problem I have is that John McCain and his fellow GOP senator have been in DC for years; neither did much of anything to address the border problem of illegals. The republicans were in power from 1995 through 2006 and did nothing. McCain briefly tried but the GOP skewered he and Bush. Now, of course, the illegal problem is Obama's fault--he hasn't done enough.

Saw a report not long ago that many legal and illegal immigrants have left and are leaving AZ because of this law; it is impacting their economy in more ways than Jan Brewer can justify her signing it.

Of course, it's a "wedge" issue. And it won't be the only one. Wait and see.

do you all even understand the law? it is talking about illegals? Papers are for illegals, not American citizens. That is what a drivers license or an ID card (issued by MVA's) is for. As far as the children born of ILLEGALS.....I agree 100% that this should go forward. This is why these women cross the border ready to drop - full access to benefits - via the kids. You all need to pull your head out of your butts and realize what this is about. American citizens are being robbed by ILLEGALS taking advantage of our system. This is a big reason why California is almost bankrupt and other states are not far behind.

The sad thing is..your serious...note the term "illegal immigrants" funny..If I do something ILLEGAL here in America, I lose my rights..so please do tell why it should be different for those outside our country? and invited..really...seems if they had to be invited, this issue would not exist. You are right about one thing..."They CANNOT exploit American resources without American help" And us tax payers give them plenty of help, whether we want to or not. It's called welfare

What Arizona should do is sue the federal government for not doing its job of securing our borders. Wait until some terrorist sneaks across and causes major havoc, then we will see how fast you all want the border secured.

You guys can critize all you want, but if you don't live in Arizona, you don't have to deal with this issue. It is always easier to play armchair quarterback than be the quarterback.

The more and more i read about this law, i see this will lead to Hispanics being singled out like blacks are. Its called driving while black!!! don't you think if a cop see a Hispanic driver make the smallest mistake he will pull him over ask for his licence, proof of insurance, car registration. once that comes back clean the next question will be please show me your ?. what proof will they ask for to show your a citizen of america. i guess that my question! like most people i don't carrymy SS card. a drivers licence is not proof of citizenship. a rental agreement is also not proof. should we carry our birth certificate with us. to me that is the only way to prove your a American citizen. i have not seen my birth certificate for 20 years. my mother had it and when she died i don't know what happen to it. i know i can get it, but when you being stopped by the police and have to show it, how can you prove your a citizen at that moment.

so now in Arizona Hispanics are going to be Messed with big time. if the person looks like they work on a construction or a job where they are dirty and there appearance is not like a person that works in a office all day, that cop will asume that this person must not be here legally, look at how there are dressed. the next thing will be what kind of car are they driving, if its a nice car then, the cop no matter what kind of ID this person has produced will question this person, why because they fit the profile. for too many years cops stopped blacks because they fit a profile. i don't care what they are saying, that we will not racial profile, but that garbage.

My next question what happened when a American citizen can't product papers that proves he is a citizen, his SS card is at home, his birth certificate is in a shoe box at his mothers house. even though is drivers licence clean and his insurance is in order. a drivers licence does not prove citizenship.

what is going to happen to this guy, is he going to be deported right away, will he have a chance to prove citizenship.

this is why the government is going to file suit, they law was in acted half a-s, with no clear cut way to stop what i just mentioned.

yes we need to secure our boarders, yes we need to stop illegally from walking right in and causing problems, not crime but. welfare, hospitals not getting paid because illegals are going there for treatment. i would ask the Governor, why did you say any thing when former president bush pulled troops out 2 years ago, you were lieutenant Governor this was no surprise.

i think you did this to not because of the crime but because you got tired of seeing all those illegals, for years they were not a problem but now that they jobs are scarce you need to find a way to get rid of them.

Damn right on, man!!! I am encouraged to see someone else trying to educate our fellow citizens about the assault on our civil rights!! However, most of our fellow citizens don't have a freaking clue about how that affects them!!!!

It does not matter if you agree with what someone else says and it does not matter if you like either the method or the manner someone uses to express themselves. If you wish to have YOUR civil right to freedom of speech protected, YOU must protect EVERYONE ELSE'S right to free speech. By protecting someone else's right to free speech you are actually protecting your right to free speech!! Don't they teach that principle in our education system anymore???

Good old Ben Franklin took what you said about giving up rights for safety a step farther - "Any society that will trade their civil rights for safety deserves neither!!" or something like that.... I guess by refusing to act and protect our civil rights and by allowing our rights to be diminished we have proven that we do not deserve our civil rights OR our so-called safety.......

Just want to close with this old truism - "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem". Anyone see themselves in the mirror here??????

You must be Hispanic.

If we the people, don't stand up for our border protection, the immigrants will take our country back to Mexico a piece at a time. The Mexican labor in the construction industry drove wages down for Americans in the field, made it easier for contractors to profit from over building, and bankers to over extend themselves as well as many consumers. Had they not been allowed in in the first place, wages would be stable, construction would be relative to demand, and we would not be paying back a trillion dollar bailout as well as suffering through a depression that has reduced wages and retirement for millions of Americans.

Think I am bitter? You bet I am after having to change a 3 decade career, loose my life's savings, and gain new student loan debt I can't pay for, all because of greed and corruption at the highest levels of government and finance.

Pietro, no one is saying we are "afraid" of illegal immigrants, but they certainly take their toll on the economy in the states where they are numerous. You are a little out of the loop up there in Ohio. The have to be "invited"????? Are you serious? No one invites them. And they absolutely exploit every resource possible. Including, and especially, every service in the public schools. Did you know that children of illegals are enrolled in school with no regard to citizenship status? The school personnel are not even permitted to ask. Just bring em in! Then the school has to figure out how to educate kids that don't even speak the language. Do you know how many of them receive services that we must provide, at the expense of programs for all students? You need to come down out of your ivory tower there in the Buckeye state, and visit a border town in Arizona. Talk to some residents and get real information, not what the liberal biased media want you to know. Your lack of REAL information upon which to base your opinion is pathetic.

One final note: What part of "illegal" don't you get??? Arizona's measure makes it against the law to be in the country illegally. It is really laughable that the state has to protect itself this way, because the federal government won't. Illegal is not a sick bird.

In Portland this week three more Mexican illegal alians busted with ten pounds of heroin they will be sent home on our dime re-supply and be back in a couple of weeks happens all the time. You would think different if your child was died I know I do.

This will assuredly come as welcome news to all those out-of-work Americans trying to sneak into Mexico for jobs. Unfortunately, language barrier aside.. Upon entering Mexico, immigrants must prove who they are, that they are mentally fit, and that they can contribute to Mexican society. If they do that, they sign their papers, are given a number, and are allowed to entry into the country. Failure to play by these rules carries a stiff penalty.

- An illegal immigrant who sneaks into the country, or fails to file his papers, will face fines, jail, deportation, or a combination of the three.

- An illegal immigrant who forges his documents, or falsifies them by lying when he fills them out, will face fines, jail, deportation, or a combination of the three.

- An illegal immigrant who takes a job faces fines, up to six years in prison, and deportation.

- All immigrants must provide proof of their legal status if the authorities demand it. Failure to do so will result, once more, in fines, jail, deportation, or a combination of the three.

But I also hope that around the world it’s noted that on matters of race, the United States is about 100 percent ahead of any place else in the world in issues of race. And I say that absolutely fundamentally. You go to any other meeting around the world and show me the kind of diversity that you see in America’s cabinet, in America’s Foreign Service, in America’s business community, in America’s journalistic community. Show me that kind of diversity any place else in the world, and I’m prepared to be lectured about race. “

So Ol'bummer is going to sue the State of Arizona for passing a law which is nearly identical to the Fedral Law he refuses to enforce? (No supirse from a traitor) For all of you idiots who think this law is a new thing guess again (cause you guessed wrong the first time!). The only thing "new" here is the fact that a state finally got tired of the fedral government ignoring the law, got tired of screaming for help on this issue and decided to enforce that which the fed's have failed at.

For those of you who are unaware, there are already laws on the books requiring you to carry identification (your papers please!)at all times. And if you are so stupid you actually think they cannot and do not get government help just because they are illegal you should go get an IQ test to see if you have enough intelligence to continue breathing. I invite you to stand in the welfare (Oops, that's not PC. I mean the HHS office) of ANY state on the west coast.

You are idiots and fools and it is burying your collective heads in the sand that is destroying this country. The absolute BLASPHMEY of saying that the heros of this country died so ILLEGAL ALIENS could freely cross the borders of our nation is TOTALY OUTRAGEOUS!! I only hope you are intelligent enough to continue breathing long enough to suffer the consequenses of your idiocy!

As a Hispanic living in AZ, I am for the new law. You see all of you that don't live here, we need to show who we are regardless when we get stopped,right? Well I am not afraid of being asked you see because I am from here and so are my parents and grandparents!!! The only ones that are concerned about the new law are the Illegals and their families. But another reason I am for the law is because as the months go by, I'm not sure how long I will be at my job or be laid off and then I will need assistance from the government and you see I will have to show who I am and also my American Children! But if i don't show my BIRTH CRTIFICATE I will not get help. now tell me how an illegal person can get assistance without papers (False Papers) I'm sure

So a police officer that has pulled you over for speeding is infringing on your civil rights by asking for ID? Most people carry them when the are driving they are called licenses. I read the posts above and think how ignorant some people are. You make it sound like every cop in our state will be waiting on the corner for brown people to drive by just so they can pull them over. Do you really think thats the only thing cops have to do? How stupid to think that all cops will be targeting darker skinned people. Do you think we don't have hispanic cops here? Do you think we don't have native american cops here? You claim it will be an enfringement on your rights and the rights of others but it is exactly like the federal law. The onlt difference is this law makes the cops enforce the law. If you read the fed statutes you would see that this law is no where near as harsh as federal law. Federal law actually gives fed law enforcement officers the orders as to how they can profile.

I agree with Jersey Girl if you aren't here don't tell us how to run our state. We should be sueing the Federal Government for not upholding the laws on the books. If I was the Governor thats what I would do and I would also withold all gas revenue taxes from the federal government or better yet take out what the government owes the state for housing federal prisoners and doing the feds job in our state. I would also stop allowing hundreds of thousands of gallons of our water to be used by California and then we would see how fast they stop boycotting.

One person said that the loss of illegals in the state would cost us dearly. Please explain how so. I would love to debate you on that anytime.

DSmith - you SHOULD be angry. You SHOULD be upset because you are getting the short end of the stick. You SHOULD be angry that because SOMEONE decided that they could get the same work you provide from someone else at a lower cost.

What we also SHOULD do is direct our ire at the CORRECT place. If you want to get angry, then get angry at all of those employers who have sacrificed YOUR livelyhood for THEIR bottom line. Get ANGRY at all of those Politicians that DID NOTHING to protect American citizens (hello.. John McCain?). Get angry at President Regan that gave AMNESTY to MILLIONS of illegal immigrants in 1986.

Last but not least, get ANGRY at all of those Americans that are sneaking these people across the border. They are NOT ABLE to sneak in unless one of us AMERICANS lets them in. The bottom line is this - we have been had - hoodwinked - put out to pasture - for people who are not as demanding as Americans are... ones that DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS. They are easier to deal with. They don't complain. They take what they are given with NO QUESTIONS.

I really don't care what your political persuasion is, but this is an issue that we all NEED to be aware of.

Amen, try Texas, they love AZ's law.

This will assuredly come as welcome news to all those out-of-work Americans trying to sneak into Mexico for jobs. Unfortunately, language barrier aside.. Upon entering Mexico, immigrants must prove who they are, that they are mentally fit, and that they can contribute to Mexican society. If they do that, they sign their papers, are given a number, and are allowed to entry into the country. Failure to play by these rules carries a stiff penalty.

- An illegal immigrant who sneaks into the country, or fails to file his papers, will face fines, jail, deportation, or a combination of the three.

- An illegal immigrant who forges his documents, or falsifies them by lying when he fills them out, will face fines, jail, deportation, or a combination of the three.

- An illegal immigrant who takes a job faces fines, up to six years in prison, and deportation.

- All immigrants must provide proof of their legal status if the authorities demand it. Failure to do so will result, once more, in fines, jail, deportation, or a combination of the three.

But I also hope that around the world it’s noted that on matters of race, the United States is about 100 percent ahead of any place else in the world in issues of race. And I say that absolutely fundamentally. You go to any other meeting around the world and show me the kind of diversity that you see in America’s cabinet, in America’s Foreign Service, in America’s business community, in America’s journalistic community. Show me that kind of diversity any place else in the world, and I’m prepared to be lectured about race. “

To answer your question: "Think I am wrong?"

YEP!!!!!!!!!

Irene....I appreciate your comment about being hispanic and living in Az.....that is what I felt all along that if that were me I would be proud to show my drivers license if I were in that situation...I don't believe in ratial profiling because that is wrong...but if you are driving down the road and get stopped.....then show it like every American citizen does.....thanks for the insight....at least you are part of the solution and not part of the problem.

"Think I Am Wrong" , No I think you are right on. Stop the influx of Illegals, deport the criminals. But when a Raciest like Russell Pearce wants to deport American born baby's, they have reached a new low.

First All the Arizona law does is allow the state to enforce federal laws.

Second If your stopped by the police while driving You Should have a Drivers License. The new license If I am correct requires you to show proof if citizenship or visas papers to get a license. Why would It be considered harassment if you can not provide a License you should get arrested and the vehicle get towed.

Third If your here on a visa I thought you were supposed to keep your papers on you at all times.

Fourth Even after three Amnesty not all of the illegal immigrants followed throught with the requirements to become citizens. If the illegals want to become citizens why are they not forced to follow the laws, and learn english as every other immigrant that built this country has?

For all of you that THINK that showing your driver's licence will be enough 'proof' of citizenship, you are wrong. If this law is passed, then in Arizona, you HAVE to have PROOF - Passport, Birth Certificate - of your citizenship. A driver's licence does NOT cut it.

A lot of you are pretty cavalier about your rights as American Citizens.

Surely you are not from arizona. If stopped by the police, I must show driver's license, insurance proof, and owner's card. I am a white american. I cannot afford good medical insurance, but every elegal that sneeks into our country with 18 others in a van often has an accident and we must pay all their bill, give them rehab, etc. on and on. Not to mention the damage to our land with all the trash along the desert as they sneek in. I am all for those who do it the legal way, earn a wage and contribute to the common good with their taxes like the rest of us. What is not to understand about breaking the law?

You stupid, stupid people who think that the illegals only do work that American's won't do. This is BS. I am living proof that this is not true. I am competing for work with girls who came to the U.S. illegally and have had sham marriages to stay. Also, If you live in Florida in the south it is mandatory to speak Spanish in order to apply for half the jobs that are available.

The Illegals are suppose to have a green card anyways as part of their information, like we carry our DL or ID's. They have papers that aree given to them if they come over here the right way,like I said I have worked in the construction field and I know that they have papers because they need to show us also when hired. Thank god for E-Verify now!!!!

Peitro, Like several other people have said, Hop down out of your Ivory tower up in the Buckeye State. You have no Idea. I have been out of work now for 4 months. I can't even get a labor job in the construction industry because the labor positions are being taken by the "illegals" in the US. Granted they do a lot of crap jobs, but when 7-10% of American Citizens are out of work, and these illegals get the paid under the table, somethings wrong. They don't even get paid directly by the companies that are hiring them. They pay their cousing, who is legal, to hire these guys, Pick them up where ever they are at, and pay them cash.

In the mean time, their girlfriends and wifes get pregnant, come here to the US, have their babies, then the kids get citizenship, food stamps, welfare and so on down the line. All the time, Jose, is making more money than me in tax free dollars, and they are geting these government benefits.

If the Feds are unwilling to fix this, by revoking business licenses of companies that hire these guys, revoking welfare, foodstamps and other citizen perks from these illegal families, I say let Arizona take care of it themselves. I'm all for hispanics in the workplace, when they go through the legal process. They let their Visas lapse, and then they stay and take advantage of the system.

My brother is a corrections office in 'farm town' Idaho. He says every year after the main harvest, the jails fill up with illegal immegrants. They committ crimes after about 3 years of work and get arrested. Because they are not citizens, they can't be held, but instead get moved back to Mexico on the American Dollar. They get moved back to Mexico for free to be with their families. No punishment for their crimes.

They know the system too well, and they know the government will not do anything about it. They have had it to good for far too long, and they know it. Its time to change.

The government is suing Arizona for protecting themselves, because the federal government won't, is what I am getting. Is this correct? I will go on record as of RIGHT NOW, that Obama is out to destroy this United States of America from the inside out. I am dumb founded and amazed. Is there anything we as citizens can do to help Arizona? I will be right there! Makes me so darn mad!!

On the issue of anchor babies:

The baby can stay, however the illegal parents will have to go. They chose to come here illegally to have the baby(s) knowing the consequences. Why should they expect any different? They are free to take their children with them of course.

Jeremy, I wish I was wrong. I would gladly publish publicly that I was wrong and you were right. However, the solution(s) to this problem are simple - DON'T HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

If we WOULD enforce the current laws and have severe punitive damages applied to those employers that are ENABLING this problem, then I am in COMPLETE agreement with you. The fact that AZ wants to deal with this problem is admirable, but they are going about it in the WRONG way (my opinion). You want to stop the illegal immigrant horde? Cut off the REASON why they are coming. Having EVERYONE prove their citizenship is like using a bazooka to kill ONE mosquito. You will probably create and cause more collateral damage and the target is still buzzing around.

Yes, the illegal immigrant knows the loopholes in the law. Who do you think showed them?

That's right - other AMERICANS that don't really care if you have a job or not. If you want to get angry about the borders, then get angry at the help the illegal immirgant is getting from AMERICANS who profit by this type of activity.

Well than we should sue the government for all their mistake's for the last 5 years ?

The democrats will never stand for this, not because they give a crap about the illegals, but because they know that a generation later they will have legal kids and these kids will vote democrat. Why would they enforce a law, when not doing so will help them get reelected.

as flawed as it is? Is arizona expected to sit by while the government does nothing? why do you think we are at this point? this idiot in ohio that keeps posting about this where illegals enjoy safe haven, no id to buy license plates etc.? is true check it out? how many families been killed by an illegal driving down road with ohio plates on car because of lax law? i know it hurts but is true, how many murders on americas most wanted by person that slid back over the border of someone they murdered here? what do you think transient illegals do that can't find work ? they rob, steal ,deal drugs like others do , this is not a wink and nod problem anymore, remember that illegals don't come to be citizens but to get what they can until caught if ever or bear children hoping to hang on in safe havens because the children are considered citizens when born here then they run scam to get parent's legalized or closet relative so can come and care for child on work permits that get renewed because child is here then once legal enough the welfare etc. follows ,the illegals know the system how to use it or they wouldnt come here they come so many scams that most americans would be shocked, they come to get the big handout, by the way its not just hispanics its from many nationalities surf the web look at web pages of other countries and sites if did not make blood boil you'd practically laugh at how easy it is to get info to get in u.s. then scam the free ride for you and relatives

this azzholes are president and hes sueing one of his own states......WTF is wrong with this guy

If the terrorists that caused 911 came into our country through Mexico we would not have two sides to this issue. Our borders are not secure and It might sound a little silly but It's only a matter of time before terrorist groups, or other countries use this weakness in order to kill our citizens (I am sure with a modest amount of money to the Mexican military the terrorists could be brought into Texas by Mexican Navy helicoptors).

The matter at hand is that the government looks the other way on illegals crossing from Mexico, while Arizona happens to be on the frontlines of our country's defense. We all felt very secure in how safe our country was; and the fact that no one would ever make it to our country and attack us before the towers fell. It is sad that we did not learn anything from all of those deaths at the twin towers. Ignorance is bliss until another attack happens, then everyone will want 50 caliber machine guns mounted on walls facing south and we might be faced with a war with Mexico.

I voted for Obama last election, but I regret it now. He doesn't stick up for my rights, but focuses on the rights of illegals. Why should a state that wants federal laws enforced be sued because of the failure of the federal government to do their job. I think Arizona should charge the federal government for all services that they give to illegals, including the federally mandatory healthcare that they can't turn people away regardless of legal status. Bet the federal government wouldn't want to pay for all that, what hipocrytes.

Yes, you are wrong! There are enough safeguards in the AZ to protect the civil rights of lawful citizens of the US. When will bleeding heart liberals like yourself STOP protecting people who break the laws of this once soverign Nation and follow the laws ingrained in it's Constitution.

We need to support AZ in what they are trying to do. There are sooo many illegial immigrants in the US and it is causing more problems. I don't have a problem with them coming in leaglly and learning to speak english. How many times have you called a company and got someone who you can not understand. It is very frustrating! I live around a Mexican and they do not speak english so we can not communicate. They seem like nice people and I would love to be able to talk with them, but can't. They are also here illegial. They are a drain on our medical system causing some facilities to shut down because they can't afford to treat them. They are given so much free services that the US citizens do not receive. Schools are over crowded etc. etc. I do not believe this would be the beginning of us losing our rights. If anything it will help us get our lives back. If they want to come in leagal great!!

One thing for sure if Arizona is sued by the federal government this will show that OBAMA has no right being president. As tax payers Arizona is actually using part of it's own money to sue itself=boy if that isn't a bunch of b--- and the Illegals have more benefits than the citizens of this country==They come here take over get a job pay no taxes hospitals have to take care of them for free can get food stamps s/s for not contributing anything and everything is free to them and we will still have to pay==talk about some crooked crap this is low

Well it is not like an american is standing at the border fence - oh yeah there are only sections of the border with actual fence...most is barbed wire......anyway you think we are standing there letting the illegals in? Sorry....it does not work that way. NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD lets illegal immigrants in to take advantage of their system. We CANNOT go into Mexico illegally without being sent to prison!

I live here in AZ and I do support the law! Illegal immigration cannot continued being tolerated! The federal gov't has done NOTHING to secure our borders since 9/11. And..why do a good many people on this post think that it is ONLY HISPANICS coming across illegally? It is only a matter of time (if it hasn't already happened) before islamic terrorists come across......they know our borders are NOT secure.

So all of you that think everyone should be allowed in........what accomodations do you suggest we give the terrorists?

Sorry...but ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL! DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE RACE!

As for the schools...no the illegals don't have to show birth certificates to get in....but I HAD to show birth certificates for my kids to get into school.......what gives?

Yes, you're wrong. Illegal aliens have a sizeable influence on our nation, starting with the fact that they steal jobs once held by Americans, birth anchor babies as a means to open an avenue to social service programs meant for Americans, and there's lots more, but I suspect your mind is too closed to accept any of it. You may talk about how we give up civil rights because of fear of "them," but I bet you have locks on your doors and screens on your windows to keep "them" from crossing your borders without permission.

i would assume you don't live in AZ., or another border state. might as well assume you heven't read the bill..as all it does is mirror and allow for enforcement of current federal law. this is not in any way goin to lead to taking any rights away from legal U.S. citizens. not quite sure where you could possibly getting your info! you talk like "every" illegal alien that comes into our country is only here to work and have perfect charachter. well if that were the case the problem wouldn't be as bad. except for the fact that their first act in this country was an illegal one. further more, if you live in a border state you would know that far more goes on than people simply wanting to work. aren't you aware that phoenix/az is #2 in the WORLD, yes the WORLD, for kidnapping!! that is just one of the many problems that comes along with illegal immigration. try going to any other country and just setting up, working, protesting in the streets, so on and so on. better yet we should take mexico's immigration laws and copy them word for word, but insert U.S. where needed!! maybe you should read theirs, then get around to reading ours!!! WAKE THE HE** UP...if you/we don't that is when we will start losing our rights!!!!

No proof of citizenship is required with proper ID. Forget the hysteria.

A valid drivers license is proper ID if you are driving a car. If you do not have it you should be arrested anyway

Illegal is ILLEGAL! You break the law you pay the price. There is a right way to enter the country. They pay no taxes, we pay the taxes. Arizona has every right to protect the taxes payers. The Feds. just set and does nothing, they have a law on the books but not enforced. You want to come to Arizona do it legal, and your more then welcome!!

Hey folks, let's start out with something "easy". Stop printing all government-related documents in both English and Spanish! Talk about our Feds courting the illegals! How much would we have "not" spent???

Well maybe if they would become citizens the correct way, none of this would be an issue. I have no problem of immigration. Hell, I'm a grandchild of immigrants. My grandparents come over through Elis Island and they did it the correct, legal way. So if they want to become citizens and enjoy the great land, they need to do it the proper way and not just trying to sneak in. This law is nothing new. The Federal govt does the same thing it just gives the police, who are the ones "down in the trenches" the ability to check legal status. If the police officer has a reasonable doubt that a person in question is illegal than they can ask for proper documentation that states said person is here legally. The said person has everything that "matches"....drivers license, registration and insurance..they can go along their merry little way. Now.....is there going to be some officers that may show racism and go a little overboard with it...yes....but if you believe racism is dead than you are just naive, plain and simple. All its going to take is some terrorist to sneak across the border via mexico and blow up some school or govt building for people to finally realize we need to protect our borders!

Pietro,

And anyone who would agree with this outragous opening statement is missing some criticle information, not to mention common sense:

1. Our jails are filled to no less than 50% with Illegal aliens

2. Phoenix has the second highest rate of child abduction in the world, other han Mexico City

3. In this country most people so not have to show ID to vote, so yes they are voting

4. This AZ law is an adaptation of federal law only less strindgent

5. AZ should be sueing the federal government for not enforcing their own law

6. If for any reason an officer of the law stops you, they will always ask for ID, weather black, white, green, purple or any other color under the rainbow. If you have ID they will proceed with process as typical. If you do not have ID, they will take appropriate action. That is it, nothing else. This situation has been so blown out of proportion and perpetuated by an administration that applauded the mexican president for denouncing the law, even though the mexican immagration laws are much more stringent and intrusive.

7. Wake up America

Do you favor open borders?

Peitro,

First and foremost, Jobs are not the Only reason the Mexican People flock to the US. The other issues you failed to reply to me on is the issue of the Babies being born illegally and then recieving all of the benefits that my family of four cannot recieve because its overloaded.

I believe that there were some truely inspired men that created the constitution in the 1700's. The thing you have to remember is that it was the 1700's. My family has been in the US since before it was the US. I can trace my linage back to 1620 in the US. How about you? The reason that this Article 14 was put in place was to grow as a nation, LEGALLY. We have grown, we still have the most rights any nation in the world offers. You'll notice though, the rights of citizens are getting smaller and smaller, while the rights of non-citizens are getting greater and greater.

Let's leave the whole Illegal Immegrant issue alone for a second. What is going on right now with the war on terrorism? These terrorist, even though they commit hanus crimes against anybody that is not fundamentalist Islam, they get every right that an American Citizen gets? Have you ever served in the military during war time? Would you be able to tell the difference between a clean cut illegal immegrant Mexican and a clean cut middle easterner. What about if that person came across that Arizona or Texas Border, went up to Ohio and blew themselves up next to your wife and kids. All because you didn't want to check ID's. I know this is kind of out in left field, but it is a possibility.

Let's go back to the illegal immegrants. While most of them come her to make a better life, there are a lot that traffic drugs, women and children, and commit crimes, violent crimes. What if I told you, here in Utah, 30% of violent, automobile, and child molestation crimes are commited by illegal immegrants. An interesting fact that I learned when I did volunteer work at the Utah State Prison, every single inmate there is a legal citizen. Not one is an illegal immegrant. they get off scott free. Mexico doesn't care what they do here, they don't even care about their own people.

This is why the mothers have their children here. Let's make it a little easier for them to obtain their citizenship. Let's make it easier to get a work visa, but make them pay taxes and make it harder for them to mooch off of You and me.

Well it looks like it's time for another Civil War. States rights vs Federal. Got to dust off the ol' Springfield musket. I'm for Az.

Anchor babies can go back with their parents. There are approx 12 to 20 million illegals from Mexico and Central America. THERE IS AN IMMIGRANT QUOTA FOR EACH OF THESE COUNTRIES AND IT SURE DAMN WELL AIN'T 20 GODDAM MILLION!

Obama ran a great campaign to be elected but sadly he is a poor president and a weak leader. Arizona has a right to protect itself from illegal immigrants...note I did not say "undocumented visitors." This administration and frankly many before it have done little to protect our borders for whatever reason. The Republicans liked the fact that this was a source of cheap labor. The Democrats felt that these people would potentially vote Democrat in overwhelming numbers, so "let 'em come."

This guy is out in left field. The AZ law is only stating what the federal law states.

So to deport these children that are born in the USA would be against the law.

These children would need to be adopted out to US citizens as babies. the ones that are over 18 would be moving out on their own and going to colledge or going to work just like mine did.

However that is not even the question. The question is to close the boarders first. Then deql with this situation. The feds don't have the guts to do even that. Maybe that will change in Nov. We can only go to the polls and vote amigos.

Unless you live in a border state, then you really have no idea what the problem is or what you are talking about. I live in Texas and yes I am white, but my wife of 19 years is Mexican American. We have no problem with the government issuing work visas and anyone legally obtaining citizenship. The problem is with all the illegals coming over, there are criminals mixed in with the people who come here to work and make a better life. We have armed drug smugglers shooting our law enforcement and our legal citizens, not to mention the rapists,theives, and murderers that escape Mexico and it's southern neighbors and cross our border every minute of the day and night. Yes, I said every minute, look up the number caught each day and then you figure a common since number that evaded detention and think about that. When an illegal is caught they sit in our jails costing millions in cost because the feds take there time usually months before deporting them and if they are convicted of a crime, they go to state or federal prison for years for which we pay for and then they are deported which means we all pay for in extra taxes. Illegals come across and gain medical care which is never paid for, excuse me, that we wind up paying for in higher insurance and medical cost. If that isn't enough to make you think, then what would you say if the feds win and an illegal is found by local law enforcement and not detained because border patrol is to busy or just doesn't care and that illegal is a murderer or rapist and he leaves our state and meets your mother,daughter, sister,wife, or other relative and the outcome is not good. Then my friend will you care that the feds did not let a local officer apprehend this illegal before he found his way to your loved one? Please before you voice your opinion realize that the border has turned into a war zone by drug cartels and it is not safe for land owners on the border to go onto their own properties. I ask where is the outrage for the Texas rancher murdered own his own property ?

Yeah...next they will be asking for your DL when pulled over, and checking to see if you have a record..then the damn goverment will check to make sure you pay your taxes...hell they might even look into your credit and employment history to get a job...what the hell is this country coming too...NOT. Stop f-n whining...holy crap...you can even use a credit card with out ID...But somehow if your illegal its "how dare you check me...its..its racist"...PLEAZE...

Received the following statement from a friend whom states that the following is written by Charlie Daniels. Don't know if it really is but whomever wrote this needs to run for office! .... See below:

I don't know how everybody else feels about it, but to me I
think Hispanic people in this country, legally or illegally,
made a huge public relations mistake with their recent demonstrations.
I don't blame anybody in the world for wanting to come to the
United States of America , as it is a truly wonderful place.
But when the first thing you do when you set foot on American soil is illegal it is flat out wrong and I don't care how many lala land left heads come out of the woodwork and start trying
to give me sensitivity lessons.
I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have any-thing against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals and anybody who comes into this country illegally is a criminal
and if you don't believe it try coming into America from a foreign country without a passport and see how far you get. What disturbs me about the demonstrations is that it's tanta-mount to saying, "I am going to come into your country even if it means breaking your laws and there's nothing you can do about it."
It's an "in your face" action and speaking just for me, I don't like it one little bit and if there were a half dozen pairs of gonads in Washington bigger than English peas it wouldn't be happening.
Where are you, you bunch of lily livered, pantywaist, forked tongued, sorry excuses for defenders of The Constitution? Have you been drinking the water out of the Potomac again?
And even if you pass a bill on immigration it will probably be so pork laden and watered down that it won't mean anything anyway Besides, what good is another law going to do when you
won't enforce the ones on the books now?
And what ever happened to the polls, guys? I thought you folks were the quintessential finger wetters. Well you sure ain't paying any attention to the polls this time because somewhere around eighty percent of Americans want some thing done about this mess, and mess it is and getting bigger everyday.
This is no longer a problem, it is a dilemma and headed for being a tragedy. Do you honestly think that what happened in France with the Muslims can't happen here when the businesses who hire these people finally run out of jobs and a few million disillusioned Hispanics take to the streets?
If you, Mr. President, Congressmen and Senators, knuckle under on this and refuse to do something meaningful it means that you care nothing for the kind of country your children and grand-children will inherit. But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you get re-elected.
Shame on you.
One of the big problems in America today is that if you have the nerve to say anything derogatory about any group of people (except Christians) you are going to be screamed at by the media and called a racist, a bigot and anything else they can think of to call you
Well I've been pounded by the media before and I'm still rockin' and rollin' and when it comes to speaking the truth I fear not.
And the truth is that the gutless, gonadless, milksop politicians are just about to sell out the United States of America because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to face reality.
And reality is that we would never allow any other group of people to have 12 million illegal in this country and turn around and say, "Oh it's ok, ya'll can stay here if you'll just allow us to slap your wrist."
And I know that some of you who read this column are saying "Well what's wrong with that?"
I'll tell you what's wrong with it. These people could be from Mars as far as we know. We don't know who they are, where they are or what they're up to and the way the Congress is going we're not going to.
Does this make sense? Labor force you say? We already subsidize corporate agriculture as it is, must we subsidize their labor as well?
If these people were from Haiti would we be so fast to turn a blind eye to them or if they were from Somalia or Afghanistan ?
I think not.
All the media shows us are pictures of hard working Hispanics who have crossed the border just to try to better their life.
They don't show you pictures of the Feds rounding up members of MS 13, the violent gang who came across the same way the decent folks did. They don't tell you about the living conditions of the Mexican illegal some fat cat hired to pick his crop.
I want to make two predictions.
No. 1: This situation is going to grow and fester until it erupts in violence on our streets while the wimps in Washington drag their toes in the dirt and try to figure how many tons of political hay they can make to the acre.
No 2: Somebody is going to cross that border with some kind of weapon of mass destruction and set it off in a major American city after which there will be a backlash such as this country has never experienced and the Capitol building in Washington will probably tilt as Congressmen and Senators rush to the other side of the issue.

Me again ..... Powerful is it not? Just like what the above stated, I'm really concerned for the illegal immigrants coming into this country with bad agendas and goals. I do feel bad about the honest and decent people trying to come and make a better life for themselves but start off on the right foot and apply for citizenship (pay your dues like the LEGAL immigrants did). It only takes one bad apple to spoil a bunch! (Also keep in mind, rumor has it that Al Qaeda had an operative of theirs marry into the Mexican Cartel a while ago so the possibility of someone of Mexican origin pulling a terrorist attack is high. Is this issue worth another possible 9/11? No way Jose! - Pun intended)

Sincerely,

Jennifer 1237259

The federal government is going to sue a state of the their own goverment ..using taxpayers dollars .... winning tax payers dollars for what ? whats wrong with this thinking ...this is why we have the issues we have . doesnt make any sense

OK, everyone let’s not get too excited before we find out the facts. First of all it is a federal crime to be in the US illegally, this is not an AZ law but a federal law. Now if you were to read the current federal law you would find out that at any time and without any cause a federal agent can ask you for ID, if you do not have it on you then you have committed a felony. Now let’s look at the AZ law, you must be stopped for something else first and only at that time can they ask you for an ID, if you do not have it then it is a misdemeanor. So as you can see, the facts of the matter are that the new AZ law is much more lax then the current federal law, so the question must be asked, why is the President thinking of taking AZ to court when the current federal law is much more harsh. I would also like to point out, what is the first thing you are asked for if you are pulled over by a cop, your license, ie ID. This is nothing new; this is a law that has been in place for years. If anything the illegal aliens should be happy with the AZ law, after all it is much more lax then the federal law.

You come into this country illegally, abuse the American system and take jobs from those of us who are here legally. Go back to where you came from. You are cancer to those of us who truly belong here.

Hooray for Arizona....Fire Obama...

Since you dont live in Arizona you really dont know what you are talking about. They are given a book by their Goverment on how to take advantage of every freebee our country has to offer and all the ways in which to get around the laws and regulations we have here before the enter this country illegally. They supress our wages, crowd our hospitals and jails all while driving on our roadways without Insurance or Drivers Licenses. Then most of the money they make goes back to Mexico. Then there's the Cartels and kidnapping and murders, so yes they are a problem, a Big problem.

When did we as Americans decide we can choice which laws we'd obey. I'm sorry for the illegal immigrates kids, but their parents came here so their children would be American citizens - is that right? We're sending jobs to Mexico, therefore our people are already losing jobs without people who are breaking the law taking the jobs here. American can not survive without producing. Stop sending jobs to Mexico, China and elsewhere. Send the illegal immigrates home and have them enter the country legally.

This lawsuit is to keep our attention off the health bill, which we can't afford either financially nor will the shortage of doctors be able to handle. Besides, more companies will probably head to Mexico, because of the pressure on the companies who can't afford to pay employees benefits (who is deciding how much insurance is enough.) SO we are in a -1 or more for Americans who keep the law.

Quite frankly, Obama is hoping this case well help the Dems in the fall. I think it is going to hurt them except in areas where a great many Mexicans reside. Those who have come into this country honestly should think twice about the law breakers, who, in my opinion, have given all those of Mexican origin a bad rap.

I'm English and Swedish. If I came in illegally then I get booted out. My friend from France wasn't able to stay. BUT it is discrimation for it to happen those coming in from Mexico.

"For english press 1 " some of you just don't get it

enough said

You do realize we already have a law that states you have to have identification on you at all times right? Say a police officer asks you for identification...you have to give it to him. If you don't you go to jail. It can be a Drivers License, State Issued ID, Passport, Military ID, etc. They all require background checks to get them. Every state carries this law... so you fools who are trying to play the fear card just look, well, foolish. I had to "show my papers" to get a SSI card, had to show them again to get a drivers license. Had to show them again to get into school. Had to show them again to get that DOD card. And the next time that nice officer stops me and says "Do you know how fast you were going?" guess what? Ill bet the next words out of his mouth will be "License, Registration, and proof of insurance please" or in other words....SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS. And this erodes my constitutional rights how???

Pietro,

Please, just stop trying to frighten people into seeing things your way. Using fear to sway people into believing what you believe is the oldest, and most VILE trick in the book.

Additionally, I suggest you go to LAW SCHOOL before you start trying to sound like a law professor or trying to sound like you know anything about the law.

If you knew ANYTHING about criminal procedure, you would understand that any law, and any criminal procedure, has the ABILITY to be discriminatory—but, only if it's used in a discriminatory fashion. However, until a procedure is in use, opposed, and judged to be discriminatory before the Supreme Court....only then can we say that a certain procedure is discriminatory.

Do you know what a Terry Stop is? Didn't think so. Here's a little background:

Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and searches him without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

Yes, before "Terry Stops" were challenged, some people (and criminals) thought they were an infringement on Fourth Amendment rights. NOT SO!! Law enforcement frequently engage in "Terry Stops." And, thank goodness for that, because they've prevented a lot of crime due the ability to do so.

Additionally, it's folly for the federal government to sue Arizona for a law that merely mirrors the federal law. If the AZ law is flawed, then Congress is going to have to admit that the federal law is flawed as well. The only reason AZ took such measures is because the federal government has been DERELICT IN IT'S DUTIES.

Come on now. Do you really think that AZ passed this law because it's a racist state? Please, after all the years it COULD HAVE passed a law like this, it didn't. The reason it did now, is because things have become untenable and UNSUSTAINABLE.

PEOPLE: DO NOT LISTEN TO PIETRO. HE'S TOTALLY CLUELESS AND KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE LAW.

If we want to stop illegals from coming into our country it is real simple, stop aiding and abetting them, stop giving them Welfare, Food Stamps, Medicaid, Housing Assistants, citizenship to their anchor babies and most importantly jobs that hard working taxpaying Americans are having a hard time finding. The only reason illegals are taking these jobs is because they don't pay taxes.Fine or if necessary close down places that employ illegals.

Mexico has some of the toughest immigration laws, check them out if you think I am wrong. A person had better have their documentation on them at all times or they can be deported no questions asked, and that applies even if you are in the country the legal way. Any person can be questioned at anytime by their police for whatever reason.

We all need to stand up and support Governor Brewer, she had the balls to do what the Federal government and our elected officials won't do, she is enforcing established laws that are already on the books. She has committed no crime, she is simply trying desperately without any help to stop her states illegal problems and the costs associated with it.

Ask yourselves if a person comes into this country illegally, demands we learn their language, hands our Flag upside down under there's and breaks our laws, do we really want them to stay?

What sort of message are we sending to those that came into this country the legal way, became naturalized tax paying Americans, do not ask for or expect our tax dollars to support them, and follow the rules if we allow amnesty to illegals?

I am from Arizona. If you think AZ is going to go after 2nd amendment rights, I want some of whatever you are smoking.

The solution seems obvious and easy, modify the police procedures so that they ask EVERYONE for ID on all stops. this removes all the ethnicity issues, and even sheriff Joe would have to have his drivers license

this response is a call to arms! attention united citizens of these free states,please think about this suit against AZ. it is a blatant attack on individual states rights. The federal government(obama agenda)wants to take away the right for a state to protect itself from an ATTACK of its borders that the federal government should be doing.Steve King a state rep from Iowa spoke of the real problem, though himself researching and actually being at the border heard hundreds of fence jumpers,(border patrol estimates 1100 per night carying 50lbs illegal drugs,borderl law for arrest must have 500lbs minimum for conviction!!!!!!!!!insane or what?????????) Fact between 2003-2009 two thousand five hundred illegal crossings arrested they were of Middle Eastern heritage,those were the ones that were caught.The problem is much deeper than having children in American schools paid for by American taxes (which continualy rise annually)that will not and cannot learn or speak english be pulled out of our schools, sorry I had to let off some pinned up agression , but it is a matter of States Rights.

Obama, what part of "Illegal" don't you understand??? You took the job to keep us safe on US soil as well as keep us secure physically & financially (and that means no FREE LUNCH everyone needs to earn their way). Not to mention preserve the American life style my forefathers fought for (I didn't say our forefathers as that would include you Mr. Obama & we know better) This includes the Tax payers' hard earned money you so easily squander & give to "Illegal" who have no right to ANY S.S. or any other Aid whatsoever! Oh yeah they're ILLEGAL, they also have no right to be here!! Close our Borders to these unwelcomed invaders & make ALL Imigrants go through the process (Ellis Island ring a bell???) Restore this Great Nation's Financial system to the way it was. Put people on commission & make them earn a living like those of us who work for a living. This is "the Greatest Nation on the Planet" And it's a privilege to live here. Earn a legal living & Worship the United States of America or GET OUT NOW!!

That's BS there, 'Come on people wake up'. There is no law forcing me to carry ID on me whereever I go. If I am driving a car, or buying alcohol of cigarettes, or doing a number of other certain activities, I have to have ID on me. But if I am walking down the street not engaging in any of those activities, I am NOT required to have ID on me.

At least, not outside of AZ. Seems like, after July, I would be required to have ID on me if the police think I 'look illegal'.

Same short-sightedness that has plagued mankind for thousands of years. The people supporting this, like the people opposing same-sex marriage, are all for restricting rights, as long as they happen to be in the majority. It's interesting that in the comments above, only one person has claimed to be both hispanic and in favor of the law. Everyone else in favor is, I suspect, not likely to be suspected of being illegal in the first place. I also suspect, of course, that if most of them were, they would be up in arms as well.

Just like same-sex marriage: let's vote on marriages being legal...just not on MY kind of marriage.

all people in the united states should have papers to show they belong here if you do not have papers then you are not here legal that means you are a illegal then you and your family needs to be sent back to were you came from that is that i am tired of you people that say it is not right it is right if they are here illegal then their kids are illegal we should not have to pay for their school and medical bills so all americans need to vote out all thoes in are government that don't want to send them back

Are you kidding? you think it is a protected right to be an american citizen because you were born here? I will agree with you , as long as the parents giving birth are here legally themselves. If they are here ILLEGALLY, then they should NOT be given instant citizenship.

What part of "ILLEGAL" do you people not understand. If you are so hot to have them all stay here, why dont you let them come stay in your houses for free?! My guess is you wouldnt even think of it. How about you all wake up and start supporting the laws we have here and quit whining about how many rights that these criminals are losing out on. They need to go home and if they want to really come back, then do it legally.

We need to either cut ties with Mexico and shut the border down and throw the Mexican citizens out, and/or rebuild Mexico so it's citizens have some pride in their country and want to stay there. It happens to be a third world country, the drug cartels just have yet to come up with a fancy name like "Taliban." Why would we want Mexican's in our country, we see how they run their own. What honestly, could we learn from them? I will wait for an answer.

Mexican scientist builds.... I got nothing, sorry.

Mexico discovers.... I again got nothing, sorry.

Mexican creates.... Wow, ummmm-mariochi band?

Wait lets read some news headlines to see what they are doing:

Mexican Navy helicoptor flies over american town with men hanging out of it with weapons.

Mexican PIRATES attacking and stealing from Americans on Texas lake.

Drug cartels kill 20 families, government hides.

And the best- Mexican military help drug smugglers carry their drugs into mexico and point guns at American law enforcement.

Decent hard working folk that i would want to include into the American melting pot, our criminals can learn a lot from them.

How much will this "lawsuit cost". Several cities Police Chiefs have given a directive to not make random stops and verify status. They have always verified status on individuals who are under arrest. So what would be the point of a big lawsuit other than grandstanding by the Obama administration. Does anyone out there really think it targets one group or nationality. Any type of terrorist, drug runner, convict can come from any country and have any skin color. Think about safety.

p.s. why are we learning Spanish in our schools when we could be learning languages that would help our economy. German, Japanese, or even chinese would be a better choice. Other countries have english as a second languge in their schools for trade reasons. Japanese children learn about 5 years of english in school to help them enter the job market. What financial good does it do for us to know this third world language? Is Wallstreet dealing in paso's these days?

Pedro it's obvious you live in Ohio when you talk about what there is to be afraid of illegals. My wife is Mexican & im black and I tell you what living here in AZ with the crimes that illegals bring is just scary. Illegal immagration brings with it drug lords, human trafficars which are called coyotes and both drug lords and human smugglers are extremly violent. Not only to US citizens but also to illegal immagrents you should see the conditions in which illegals are forced to live under while Mexican gangs fight over them it's horrible. For the sake of the illegals the law is good. Just read about the border wars here in AZ, bet you don't see that every night on your local news, but I do. Every body on the east coast has something to say but come live here in AZ where the metal hits the meat then you talk.

What about the illegal immagrants allowed to get food stamps welfare and into our as Americans worked all our lives and they get our Social Security with no blinking rom our government I think AZ has a good law

My first question to you all is: "Have you read this new law in its entirety?"

My second question is: “Have you been to Arizona and looked around?”

My third question is: “Have you read the Constitution in its entirety?”

My forth question is: “Do you vote on a regular basis?”

If you honestly answered “NO” to all of these above questions, then you don’t have any opinion that’s meritable!

If you honestly answered “NO” to some of these above questions, then you at least have some merit to your opinion!

If you honestly answered “YES” to all of these above questions, then you have a meritable opinion worth considering!

Don’t be fooled by “sensationalist, uninational-seminists, paranoial-rationalist and reverse racists”. They all have one thing in common, To create fear and mislead the masses for their benefit! (Whatever it may be).

I have stood aside and watched how easily people can be “Desensitized” from the real facts.

May God bless us all!

Just open the boarder, let everyone in! Would that not be a good start! We also need to pass a law for same sex marriage, then we need drugs and prostitution legalized and the enviornment protected, and labor Unions for everyone. We need to feed the hungry and provide everyone good health care, good education and decent housing. We owe the world this for how we treated them. We should just give the whole world US citizenship. We are all equal. Americans are not special or better than anyone else. After that just pass the FAIR TAX.

how can you sue for something that you should have done years ago??? the last i knew arizona was one of the 50 UNITED STATES, or maybe i slept during geography class????

i know im not the brightest light in the room, but the federal laws are already in place to have completed this project years ago.. now because a governor, female yet to boot has had to do her job, isnt it a shame she has more balls than the president????

I just love how Pietro (from OHIO) and all the others up in arms about this law have absolutely NO clue whatsoever what they are talking about. As a person who grew up in Tucson, currently lives in Phoenix, and happens to be of Hispanic descent, I can say that what AZ is doing is simply enforcing current immigration laws. Laws that are not, and have not, been enforced by our government for years.

And guess what? I was pulled over for speeding earlier this week and what was the first thing the officer asked me for? License, registration, and proof of insurance. Did I sit there and cry about how unfair it is that I should have to prove who I am? No, because that's the way it is for EVERYBODY. I did something wrong (speeding), got caught, and had to prove who I was to make sure I had no outstanding warrants and was not a criminal.

Frankly, I will be glad when this law goes into effect because its the illegals that make all of us Hispanics look bad. My family came here legally and went through the entire process, which took about 3 years. Why should I, and every other American citizen have to pay for criminals to receive many benefits of citizenship without earning them? I will gladly continue to show proof of citizenship (and that's what a driver's license is) if it means finally enforcing the laws of this country!

It can only get worse !!!!! I didn't vote for the fool in the oval office, and now America is gonna see why! He has NO BACKBONE of his own, he is incapable of making any kind of decision, and if he had his way, Americans are going to be the minority. No money left to spend Obama ??????? STOP SUPPORTING IMMIGRANT WELFARE !!!!! I don't work my fingers to the bone so some lazy immigrant can suck our system dry, all the while sending their illegally gotten wages out of the country. Mmmm don't pay taxes or contribute, don't have to live here legally, don't have to learn English, don't have to worry about the laws, just get sent back and sneak over again for more free Obama Cash !!!!!!

I'm all for Immigration, my spouse if from another country and we went through the process like we were supposed to. IF you want to live here then follow the rules. if not....... GET OUT !!!!

As for Mr Obama, get off your butt and do your job !! what do you think your getting paid for? to stand there and look pretty? The people of Arizona are only doing what you don't have the stones to do !!!!!

The unemployment rate will be lowered and our economy might not be in a big hole if they tighten up the illegal immigration law. Yes, they can only get the shiitty under rage jobs with employers who are willing to gamble, but it also taken our citizens' right to work at those jobs when the economy is bad and nothing better is avaliable. Their medical bills, food stamps, education and many other expenses. At least 5% of our taxes goes to them every year. They lowered the living standard of americans, sink us lower with monetary burdens.

How irresponsible is this president? Our Country has no money (thanks to useless stimulus and pork) and it's going to sue Arizona because it's (Arizona) doing what the Feds haven't. obama will never have the peoples respect because he will never earn it. His arrogance is so childish.

To all of you who are here legally and are citizens of the United States of America.

SUPPORT SECURING ARIZONA'S BORDER AND STANDING UP TO WASHINGTON. Go to Jan Brewers website www.janbrewer.com and sign her petition!!

PIETRO,

You are hilarious. So, it appears as though you're now arguing for an Originalist interpretation of the 14th Amendment—the *gasp* Scalia approach to Constitutional interpretation.

And, those arguing that the 14th Amendment doesn't apply to children born of illegals—only to children of slaves—in regard to the Naturalization Clause, are arguing that the Constitution is a LIVING DOCUMENT—a document to be interpreted according to changing times. Those arguing that the Clause doesn't apply to "anchor babies" are using a "living document" approach to interpretation.

So, what is it, then? It appears as though you're interpreting the Naturalization Clause as a strict Originalist. In that, you're saying that we should read the Amendment without interpretation, and strictly as it was written.

You must be having a coronary right now—being that you agree with Scalia's approach to Constitutional interpretation.

HYPOCRITE!

NOW WAIT JUST A COTTON-PICKEN MINUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF the Justice Department AND Eric Holder want to sue Arizona, doesn't SOMEONE in this administration have to actually READ THE BILL???????????

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to Eric Holder, Janet Neopolitano, Phillip Crowley and of course Barack Hussein Obama,,,,,,,THEY HAVEN'T READ THE BILL!!!!!

But this isn't surprising is it? This administration doesn't read ANY Bills,,,they don't even read the Bills THEY WRITE!!!!!

AND BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA. YOU MR. PRESIDENT ARE A COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!

How can you have your girl-toy,,,Hilary,,,be the one to announce this news? You Mr. president are an embarrassment to our nation. If you don't have the BALLS to stand up and announce what you haven't read and claim it is "misguided" and you are going to sue, you are a wimp!

Maybe you should have just said "they acted stupidly". Remember how well that worked for you?

Pietro

I NEVER invited any illegal aliens. They just broke in like common criminals.

Signed - first generation born of LEGAL aliens

RedDog in AZ and all other AZ citizens - THANK YOU FOR GETTING ON YOUR GOVERNMENT TO PASS THIS LAW.

I also think that unless you live in AZ, CA, TX, or FL, you should have ZERO say in the matter as to what happens to the illegal aliens.

THEY AREN'T DRAINING YOUR STATE DRY like they are out states.

Children of illegals should have no American rights regardless where born. If two people are visiting from France and the mother was pregnant and gave birth here, they would go back home and the child would be a French citizen.

Wow, you are so misinformed. As retired Navy, I am assuming you may have been on a ship and had the chance to travel. What happens when you show up in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia without a passport (papers)? If you are trying to get in, you will be turned back. If you are in, you will be arrested and imprisoned. Mexico has similar results for people going there without papers. As for Pietro, obviously, you have not read the bill, nor have you compared it to the Federal statute. They are one and the same, line for line. If you are here illegally, then you need to be sent home. The only freedom that is being denied is the freedom that American citizens are supposed to have. The illegals are creating crime waves, stressing our social structure to the max (schools and hospitals) and they have no right to be here. The democrats want them here so they can vote. I vote that they go home.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/obama-watches-white-sox-take-on-stephen-strasburg-061810

Thank god the President has his current priorities straight.

i surely dont understand whats the fuzz about the papers ?? I as legal permanent resident are required by federal law to have my papers ( green card ) with me at ALL TIMES and i believe i need to show it too when ask for it ,besides as by our Az Law ( Sb1070 ) ,if you get pulled over for a violation ,the cop will ask you for your drivers license ,proof of insurance and ( vehicle ) registration ,just like in your state ,now he will go back to his cruiser and verify your documents ,if this turns out to be alright you are on your way again ( plus the fine for your violation of course ) ,just like in your state ,if it turns out they are not ,he HAS reasonable suspision ( cause ) for further investigation ,just like in your state, with the exception that the officer here in Az ALSO can ask for your legal status ,in which i can and must show my green card ,which i HAVE to have with me at all times by Fed law ( see above ) ,if it comes to that point and you can not provide such ,you will be arrested until you ( or a relative to you ) can provide it,so you have plenty of chances to obey the law

If they do I will contact my U.S. Representative and tell her I support taking all appropriate action to force this administration to begin enforcing our borders,especially the southern one. Last time I checked the President is supposed to protect THE LEGAL CITIZENS OF OUR COUNTRY . By enabling the invasion of our country by 12 to 20 million foreign nationals to continue he (like the man he replaced) is derelict in his duties!! Jimmy Carter must be smiling because his reign as the worst U.S. President in modern history may well be coming to an end!!!

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would be for illegal immigrants. The word illegal should be a clue! It only makes sense to deport all illegals. I believe the Arizona law is a milder version of the federal law. If the feds were doing their job, Arizona would not need their law. There is a reason Arizona wants the illegals out! Why should any tax dollars be spent on aiding illegals? If I do something wrong I pay a fine & or go to jail. So why is it right to give these law breaking people our tax dollars. If someone wants the illegals here, then they should pay, not my tax dollars!! I do not feel asking for your I. D. is taking away anyones rights. You have to show your I. D. if you get pulled over, so why shouldn't the illegals? If you think we are being too harsh one the illegals, just try sneaking into Mexico & see what they will do to you.

You really have it wrong. The idea to not give citizenship to the children of illegal aliens does not mean that those who already have citizenship will have it taken away. It means that going forward only children of legal US citizens will be granted US citizenship. THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS EVERYWHERE ELSE.

Illegal aliens today- Democrates tomorrow, if they become legal, they get the right to vote.

If we don't stop "Obama Ben Laden" we will be called infadels and it will be open season on all of us.

what part of "ILLEGAL" don't you understand!! they have broken FEDERAL LAW. it's still the law. Have you read Mexico's immigration laws. they are much more harsh than we have ever thought about. Arizona is not just targeting Mexicans. it's about asking everyone that comes across the border without the proper identifacation. whether it be light skin europeans or people from the middle or far east. Arizona is saying they have the RIGHT to ask for ID'S from people that have committed crimes. do you say NO to Walmart when they ask for ID to confirm a particular purchase? if you do, they will not sell to you or cash your check. by opposing this, you are saying it's ok to rob a bank. thats a FEDERAL LAW. are we supposed to ignore that also? The FEDERAL government; particulary the Liberal Democrats see all the people as future voting base and will not pass anything to regulate the Illegals. my opinion is that if they are going to be here, they (all persons) should asimilate into society. learn the English language. fly the AMERICAN FLAG. not the one from their country. They are AMERICANS now! they are not MEXICANS, or SALVADORANS or whatever. you want to fly a flag...fly the AMERICAN FLAG!!!!. the only people this affects are the ones who don't belong here!!

Pietro,

You are wrong. The issue is not illegal immigrants voting rights...it is that they are a drain on the American economy that is already in peril. America is not sufficient in taking care of its own with respect to education, health care, etc. - and these are tax payers who have paid into the system their entire lives. Now we are expected to take care of others who come here illegally? I feel for them...but I also feel for the hard working Americans who have struggled all of their lives and don't get the benefits that illegal immigrants do.

Regarding the rights of US Citizens...with the direction we are heading with Big Government and Socialism...your rights are going to be pre-determined for you. A government big enough to give you everything...is also big enough to take it away. Good luck.

I don't think anyone is against LEGAL immigration, but let me tell you as a Massachusetts citizen it's truly amazing that we have so many illegals here getting state benefits! We're required to have/pay for health insurance in Massachusetts but illegals get freecare/Health Safety Net. Illegals are in public housing, get food stamps, welfare benefits, etc. And it's at the taxpayers expense. So I really don't have an issue with denying "anchor" children citizenship.

And as far as the "They do the jobs Americans don't want to do": that's not true. They do jobs for LESS than Americans are willing to do them, basically almost slave wages. If the employers can get 2 people at $5/hour each versus one person at $12/hour....

Pietro

1. Once the administration grants ammesty to the "illegals" guess where they'll vote.

2. As far as cost, check out how much any state "wastes" on theses "poor" workers, and their 4-6 children. (school, medical, assistance, etc)

3. Does your sympathy extend to the "thousands" who play the game, and apply for legal entry, and wait 4-6 years for their visa?

Before you start lecturing on the Az law... where the heck are you from??? If you spent any time in Az Nm south Tx you would know the kind of terror these people are subjecting our citizens to. My uncle lives in what used to be a nice quiet neighborhood in Phoenix, now it is like a war zone. Drop houses, for drug dealers, houses full of illegals shacking up 15-20 per house.

The Az law is right on the only thing it does is REQUIRE the police to enforce the federal law that already exists. Here in Seattle as it is in many other cities....LA,Huston NY, Chicago to name just a few it is against police policy to even ask immigration status of the criminals that they book into jail!! Just in the last 3 weeks there have been 8 stories that I have seen of people being booked on crimes ranging from trafficing multiple kilos to rape, child molestation, to murder. Most of these have previous records with no deportation. Now don't get me wrong I'm not all these people are major criminals, most are decent people, but what the f... does ILLEGAL immigrant mean to you.

As for the argument that they take the jobs no american wants, BS. True they work in agriculture which in very low wage, but the construction, hotel, service industry has been flooded with these workers. They deflate the wage so that american workers have to leave the industry because they don't split rent 15 ways!! They have to support their family. One thing that really needs to change is that we need to take away the carrot that brings them here. Employers that are caught pay next to no penalty if caught. They should pay fines per illegal worker from $100 up to $5,000 if they get caught repeatedly. Get caught advertizing in Mexico for US jobs $10,000 fine. Make criminals out of the employers enticing them to come here.

Also take away their services no welfare, no medical no education. Come into an ER for medical services... if it's not life threatening get the F out. Going hungry... no food stamps we'll give you a bus ticket back to mexico let your own Govt. feed you. No more edu. job training. If you take away the incentive and comforts they will go home and stop coming.

you,re delusional

I keep reading about the "violation of our civil rights". Have we really gotten to this point of fear? Here is just a quick news flash, this law does not violate our civil rights, we are citizens! This law is designed to protect those of us who are citizens. There are no civil rights to protect for the illegals because under the law, they do not have right in this country. They should have no rights, whether it be legally, finacially, medically, or any other rights. We have a wonderful country that welcomes anyone but it needs to be done LEGALLY! I think it is extremely disrespectful for anyone to be here illegally and assume they are privy to the same rights we as citizens have. It is not only an insult to those of us here from generation after generation but also to those who have come here looking for a better life and have taken the legal and correct steps to be here.

There was a comment by one man that soon it will be "papers please" instead of showing your license. Sweetheart, your license has always been your "papers please", it has just been termed a different way.

To those of you who feel that the government should sue Az to protect rights, you need to think about that a little harder. The government sueing Az is taking AWAY states and CITIZEN rights and that is what you should be fearful of!! The fact that Az has to even enact this law should be a huge sign to the government that they are not doing their jobs protecting our boarders and if they think this law is wrong, then they need to start working at doing a better job and protecting the boarders!

@ Pietro-"Why in the world would we be 'afraid' of illegal immigrants?" I dont know why anyone would be 'afraid' of illegal immigrants, you are 100% right oh wait they do fly planes into buildings and kill innocent ammerican people that were just going to work to support their families on 9/11, they collect our working class american's money for medical expenses and collect under 3 different SS#...yea it was wasnt mexican that flew the planes but who are we to draw the lines on which illegal immigrants we allow into the country? Guess you live in an all white neighborhood too so you dont see how these illegal immigrants live. How they ruin towns and bring down the value of homes in a community. Also last time i checked employers paying anyone off the books was illegal so i guess you promote that as well. I grew up in Paterson, NJ come live a day in my shoes. Come and live with the illegals might change your views. But hey what do we have to be afraid of right? Hell lets just have no citizenship at all and just let everyone in...wow that would be great!

Well, Pietro, lets see...The Unityed States has strict laws concerning Immigration, way before Ellis Island or Arizona. The Babies born here are designer babies, concieved for the sole purpose to circumvent the Law as it written, and, there is no way you will ever convince me, or millions of others, that these children were born here as soon as possible to allow the baby citizenship. The child IS born American, but, Maria and Jesus are still illegal, no right of citizenship at all.

The Law Arizona passed is and was intended to enforce the FEDERAL LAW that no President since about 1965 has had the balls to enforce, too much damage to vote count at election, period. Let me ask you this: If you lived in a $250,000 home, have been there for any number of reasons, and suddenly you find things going on in your neighborhood you don't care for, what will you do? Will you report the activity to Police? Will you be afraid to? Are you intimidated by this new activity, and, what about the value of your home and the safety of your family and belongings? NOT all Hispanics are gang bangers, not all are Illegal, either. My point here is, if we do not protect our borders, keep the Cartels from setting up shop, and try to do something to protect this soil we legally call home, just open the gates and let the Alkida, Russian Mafia, the Ecuadorian President, et al., just run rroghshod over us.

The Arizona law is a states rights issue, the Federal woosies just haven't the Gonads that are needed to do as the Federal law intended. If you feel that any person, non-American citizen, should be allowed to enter here undeterred, then, sir, you are a BIG part of the problem. Because Arizona is supporting the U.S. Constitution by their law, they are not the bad guys, not at all!!!

WAKE UP AMERICA< WE ARE BEING SOLD A BILL OF GOOD FROM bHUSSEINobamagod and his band of cowards, please, don't buy in to it. NO this administration did not create the problem, but, they DAMN sure aren't doing anything about it

"You heard it here first" - hardly. As to illegal immigration, Az law is far less invasive and stringent then existing federal law. i suspect 99% of the posters here have no clue what existing federal law states and requires, if actually enforced. A less stringent law is not a slam dunk loser at appeal level, particularly when it makes it to the supremes. This is Obama playing politics again. Guy just can't get out of campaign mode! His agenda is rapidly slipping away along with his political momentum. He can't put enough lipstick on another stimulus pig to get anything of significance passed. Cap and trade has moderate dems hiding under the table till after November and only a feckless version can possibly pass. As to non citizenship for children of illegals born here, I doubt that will pass in the courts and would probubly need a constitutional convention which will not happen anytime soon. That would actually become a non issue over time if our borders were secure. In the age of opportunistic and fanatical Jihad, non secure borders are insane for any country, but particularly the great satan in the eyes of Jihad, America.

What a load of bull@!$%#. As usual the apologists and minorities want to disreguard our laws and frame those that demand our laws be upheld as racists. Our government no longer represents the tax paying American citizen. It only panders to the dead beats, criminals, envious union workers, and welfare puppies.in an attempt to garner votes.

To Jody,

It is impossible to "look Latino." The Latin world is composed of different races and backgrounds and skin-tones. What you or others may perceive as Latino is a cultural stereotype that the liberal media has projected into your mind. Arizona has one of the largest American Indian populations yet many have voiced resentment towards illegal alien criminal behavior. With all the baseless, random accusations of discrimination, neither they nor anyone else has shown much concern for racial profiling towards them. At the same time, most Hispanics throughout the Southwest are white and have little to no reason to worry about racial profiling, aside from that of the brown supremacist Mexica movement which is most vicious towards patriotic Hispanophone Americans, both those of the same color and especially hueros. These criminals are violently racist and need to be either deported or executed.

First time poster, but I'm passionate about this subject and have definetely made up my mind about this subject. Hopefully, I'm replying to Pietro, someone who I've read before and have liked some of his posts.

I'm for for comprehensive immigration reform. The course of events set off by Arizona ’s new law makes this apparent. The law clearly seeks to overstep the authority of the federal government. Under the supremacy clause article IV clause 2, the Constitution states that federal laws, treaties and statutes are the supreme law of the land. Almost all people, legal scholars included accept that immigration policy is a federal mandate. If that is the case, then why should the state more importantly the police have authority to perform a job only the feds can do?

A big problem I have with the law is that the way it is written would allow police to use racial profiling to determine legal status. The Law’s vague language can lead to abuses and unconstitutional violations according to the fourteenth amendment. Am I saying that all cops will abuse this power? No, I would bet 99% of police officers would not abuse this power. However, in my reading it makes no clarification of when and how a cop could ask for documentation. Proponents say that cops will be given sensitivity training so as to not use racial profiling. However, to enforce the law itself, racial profiling must be used. Do we really need the police who have a hard enough job already have this burden? More importantly as a staunch believer in civil liberties do we need to give them this power?

Fourteenth amendment

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States , and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Note the use of the word person and not citizen. The States need to provide for equal protection of the law for all people not only citizens. This held up in the Supreme Court under the decision Plyler vs Doe in 1982. Plyer vs. Doe decided that yes children of illegal immigrants are citizens.

The AZ law will also create an irreparable rift between the police department and the immigrant community. How many crimes will go unreported because people without legal status will be afraid of the police? Crime might soar as undocumented victims don’t report crimes. On another level how will this affect the psyche of Latinos in general? This law will not only affect the undocumented. Legal immigrants, legal residents and U.S citizens will be affected by this violation of privacy and unreasonable search and seizure.

On a personal level, I am a third generation Mexican American born in the US , a transplant to Texas from the Midwest . In my graduation class of high school I was one of four Latinos among 300 students. As is the case with many minorities growing up, I encountered occasions of racism and bigotry. I’ve been called a spic, wetback and heard jokes about green cards. I shudder to think about the type of atmosphere and bigotry young Latinos will face if a LAW willing allows racial profiling and discrimination to take place. Drop out rates among latinos may increase due to this state sponsored bullying.

This is the United States of America . Do we really want to let civil liberties erode? If you give the state an inch of police powers they will take a mile. Do we want this country to take a step toward the system in place during South Africa ’s apartheid era? Will fear and bigotry lead us towards fascist police powers that were utilized by Nazi Germany? I surely hope not

I'm a life long democrat and a Obama supporter but I'm still waiting for change I can believe in.

Yellowdog-Mark D - Thanks for your post. I just wanted to let you know that I HAVE read your post (since it was directed towards me). This is a disaster that is about to happen and I submit that a lot of the other posters on here have not considered fully what they are asking for.

Ursula

The Obama administration had set two more appointments with the Governor to discuss the laws and to inform her of what they would do. She should have been told by the President or Holder of how the DOJ would proceed not here it second hand from the Sec of State in an interview in a foreign country. To me thats chicken sh%t when the President and his lackeys don't have the stones to tell the Governor face to face.

You haven't been paying attention. She was not stunned by the fact that we may have a lawsuit brought up...it was the fact that it was announced in a foreign press.

This is very disrespectful of a governor of a state, to hear her state is being sued via the television. I don't care which party you support, this is wrong.

True, that, Jersy. The usual way you find out you're being sued is when the process server arrives at your door. This was SO much more harsh.

"President Obama has spoken out against the law because he thinks that the federal government should be determining immigration policy. And the Justice Department, under his direction, will be bringing a lawsuit against the act."

Just who does President Obama think he is! His whole problem is, President Obama believes he is above Constitutional Law! The Federal Government refused to take action against the illegal immigration issues and escalating crime along the border states. Arizona was forced to enact State Law to protect the economy and physical well-being of it's citizens. This is not a case of political "Patty-Cake". Every state has the right to enact state laws to protect its citizens - Plain and simple!

Some may call this "Racial Profiling"; however, Arizona is not specifically singling any illegal group in particular. Facts are Facts, People! The largest part of our illegal population in this country are from Mexico and Latin American Countries. What part of 'ENTERING THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY, DOESN'T THE PRESIDENT UNDERSTAND!" Plus, most of the Drug, Gang and Border violence and crimes stem from the Mexican Region. President Obama should be more interested in doing his job as President, which entails representing the safety of American citizen's. Instead, President Obama is more interested in securing the Hispanic Vote for reelection, even if the Constitution of the United States, regarding Immigration, is compromised in the process! 2012 can't get here fast enough for me!

Theresa, Thank you i couldn't have said it better myself. When 2012 comes and Obama is history, i will be happy. he doesn't give a Rats A— — about America or its citizens.

The only rights being denied here are the rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness of the citizens of the united states. People that are not citizens of this country are not entitled to the rights and protections of legal citizens. Our national government has made a farce of not protecting our borders I fully support what the state of Arizona is doing. If the Federal government would follow the laws of our nation and the constitution instead of ignoring whatever law it chooses to, it would have been unnecessary for the State of Arizona to pass the law. We have the right as citizens of this country to protect ourselves. Clearly our government is not interested in protecting its citizens. Mexico has much stricter immigration laws than the United States and they enforce their laws. It is long overdue that we enforce ours.

Anna,

Yet another person entirely ignorant of the law. Trust me, Gov. Brewer, would not be personally served with notice at the Governor's mansion—how ridiculous. That's not how state officials are given notice when the federal government is filing suit.

Clinton's gaffe was unprofessional at best. When the feds are filing suit against a several state, state officials are given notice WAY before the press is given notice. This is usually done in meetings between the DOJ and officials of the state.

At the very least, states being sued by the federal government are informed behind closed doors that a complaint is being filed.

This is because we're a UNION, in case you forgot. States MAKE UP THE UNION. Please read the Constitution for a brief discussion about the sovereign status of the states.

That said, state officials deserve the respect to be informed of such a circumstance first. Decorum dictates that announcements of a suit should not be done via foreign press.

You know we don't need to wait for 2012, if the president is not doing his job and protecting our constitutional rights then we have the tools we need to bring him down and put in someone who will do the job the way it is supposed to be done. I was against Obama from the start because I never believed he would fulfill the job the way it needed to be done, when he was elected I resolved to support him until he gave me reason not to, and his administration's actions have given me plenty of reason to stop supporting. If we can awaken enough of the American citizens and bring them to action then it is possible to bring down the president who does not support our rights and raise up one who will.

scoobitts ~ I read it in law school and a couple of times since then, and I don't think it specifically addresses how you serve process on the governor of a state. My point was that this is nothing more than a diversionary tempest in a teapot -- a totally manufactured issue. Who really cares how Brewer found out that AZ is getting sued? People need to keep their eyes on the prize.

i think sometimes it is a nice thing to read the constitution and with all whats going on with Obama and his admistration there is one line in the constitution that does stand out .....

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

i believe the November election are the perfect place and time to provide new Guards for OUR future security ,because those in charge dont look out for us ,they look out for themselfs

The Gov of Az should get a medal and praise, I am just ashamed of our Gov for not having the back bone to stand by her. Tx

I am on the fence about the issue. I live in Texas and yes I know what it's like to see illegal immigrants get welfare, live in a house with 3 families, and stand behind several mexicans who are sending moneygrams and western unions to mexico. It pisses me off to know that this is happening. However, what is the best way to solve the problem. Before the issue of mexican immigration it was the former slaves that caused "American" hardship. The former slaves where taking all of the jobs. Don't forget if you where black you had to show papers proving you where free. Everyone that lives in America unless you are native american are immigrants. I agree we have to do something but, we need to figure out the best way. I was taught that if you forget history it will repeat itself. Go back and read the history books and how your immigrant relatives legal or illegal made this country what it is. This country is not great because of one person or one race. It's great because of the hope it gives to those who have no hope anywhere else. You talk about going to other countries and being illegal and going to jail. We'll who really wants to go to Mexico? We need to do something but while we are doing it, lets remember what makes our country great. Also, when this is all said and done, the illegal immigrants are in jail or back in Mexico who then will we blame our hardships on. The blondes or brunette or how about the fat folks maybe the gays or the oldie but goodie the n**gers.

texasgirbornandraised - thanks for your post. This issue is complicated, and I do NOT have all of the answers. However, as an American Citizen, we have rights in this country. My biggest issue with the AZ legislature is that they decided to trample upon the rights of American Citizens - you and I - to combat this problem they are having with immigration. That is NOT acceptable to me.

The AZ legislature could have passed laws that restricted social services to American Citizens only. They could have passed laws that only issued drivers licenses to American Citizens only. They could have passed laws sanctioning employers for hiring illegal immigrants.

They chose not to.

I submit that this issue in AZ is a wedge issue. It is political grandstanding. It is also a test - to see if American citizens are paying attention. Well, THIS American citizen is. Let's just hope that there are more AZ citizens that are paying attention as well, because if we are NOT vigilant a bout our rights as citizens, SOMEONE will be taking them away.

If you stand for nothing, you wil lfall for anything.

That is so true.

And I'll bet somebody is going to throw in an 'ism or two for good measure

A perfect picture story from I.R. to end the week. Have a good one.

No bet IR - I cooking up some fresh popcorn... want some?

And they're off... coming around the first turn AllBlow's in a commanding lead... with JoAnna Smith a half a go kart back... oh no... look out Dirt is coming up fast behind Mr First Bill & FU Charley can't get his engine started (go figure)

Wait! AllBlow's blown a tire...

IR- they are very likely running restrictor plates. In their heads. Steel ones.

Feisty and IR- who's that driving the pace-Kart? Looks like Steve Colbert's canned ham. Could it be.... could it be......Karl Rove?

By Golly I believe your right...

Good eye there my friend! It's the turd blossom in living color...

Got a good laugh from all the above. Talk about visuals!

Have a great weekend everyone. Another good week and another good job by our FR hosts!

Ooh, Feisty ... my eyes, my eyes. ;)

My bad... I meant gasket!

Sorry Anna Molly - I should of warned you to put on the shades first...

i'mwhitewolf ~ Depends. Were they born here, or were they BORN here, but to ILLEGAL parents? See, it all depends on how you say it. Apparently, republicans don't mind visiting the sins of the parents on the children. Just like the national debt and the decisions of crazy old war mongers.

Anna, do you have any idea what it costs the State of Arizona for the births of all these illegal babies? And, do you have any idea how many illegals come across Arizona's border, just to have a baby born here? Start doing some investigation on your own before you shoot your mouth off about Arizona's problems. If you don't live in Arizona, you have no right to critize, because you aren't dealing with the problems nor the costs of illegals.

imwhitewolf - No, am not wrong in this case. The 14th Amendment protects the rights of people who are born here in the United States (you ca nreference wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=14th+amendment+constitution&go=Go). This is not an assumption on my part, it is part of the Constitution.

Now, you may FEEL that it is not right for an 'anchor baby' to be an American Citizen, and I may even agree with you, but the 14th Amendment CLEARLY states that "ALL PERSONS - on one with parents who are illegal or not - born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES and of the State werein they reside." Note the ABSENCE of the origin of that birth. The language is clear: this applies to ALL PERSONS BORN or naturalised in the United States.

This is why this AZ law is so dangerous. If we deny citizenship - in direct conflict with the 14th Amendment - what other rights can be taken away? If I was a betting person, or a dictator, I would use this law as precedence to take away the 1st and 2nd Amendments RIGHT AWAY so that I would have complete control.

imwhitewolf, I TRULY wish I was wrong in this case.

This new bill is stating that Arizona will NOT issue a birth certificate from the State of Arizona.

Jersy ~ Your problem is with the PARENTS. That argument is nothing but a HUGE red herring. Besides, I thought George W. Bush fixed all of that. Anyway, I may not live in Arizona, but I have read the LAW. And the 14th Amendment is CLEAR. What part, exactly, of the word "born" don't you understand? And are you absolutely sure that your own ancestors were "legal" when they first came here? Because under your theory, your own citizenship depends on theirs. Be careful what you wish for, Jersy (transplanted to Arizona, apparently).

Pietro

The reason that Arizona is looking to pass the law is to make th Supreme Court find on the subject. It is not as clear cut as you and wikipedia want it to sound. If you know anything about the 14th Amendment then you must have read the history and the intentions of the writers of the Amendment, especially the writters of the citizenship clause. If the Supreme Court tosses the law, I think a large majority of people will call on their Senators and Reps to take care of the problem at the fed level. If they won't do it the people can call on their state legislatures to do it and force the feds hand. Its called a change to the Amendment and it doesn't have to start by Congress. The states can start the process themselves. I think this is just the beginning of laws to force the fed to do what it empowered itself to do when it passed the laws in the first place.

If the Supreme Court does actually find against Arizona, I think there will be hundreds of law suits against every entity of the Federal Government that is supposed to enforce regulations involving illegals, until those entities do what they are supposed to do.

Pietro...the law in the constitution was written to grant citizenship to the freed slaves...NOT for a bunch a illegals border crossers bearing children.

Let's say your on vacation in Europe and your pregnant wife gives birth early should your child now automatically be a natural born citizen of what ever country your in should he/she remain an American citizen?

We are the land of the free not a drop zone for the criminals and unwanted babies!

Anna, my great, great grandparents sure as heck never tried to sneak into this country. They came through by legal channels, in fact, I stilll copies of their naturalization papers to prove it. How about you?

Oddly enough justwantitover, if a child is born while on vacation in a number of countries, they can obtain citizenship of that country. Granted not all countries recognize this, but there are a few.

I read somewhere that the 14th Amendment was never properly ratified. If I can locate the article I will re-read it and post the link.

justwantitover - actually, there are many cases where a child born while on holidays can have DUAL citizenship. The United States is one of the countries that does NOT allow for Dual citizenship except for a few isolated cases. I have friends in Europe that have dual citizenship because the mother was American.

Now, to solve the problem, stem it at the SOURCE. STOP HIRING illegal immigrants and we will see the problem vanish overnight.

Why is it so hard for people to direct their ire at the REAL perpetrators of this issue?

Jersy ~ No, but I'm not that fussy. I was BORN here, and I have THOSE papers.

Pietro, you poor, ignorant soul. The 14th Amendment was not written by our "founding fathers." It was adopted after the Civil War. And, Pietro, the U.S. is one of the few countries in the world which clings to birthright citizenship. And one last thing, Pietro, there is at least an argument that the 14th Amendment does not apply to illegal aliens, by virtue of the words "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" found in the text of the Amendment. And you do know, Pietro, that states can't pass laws that are in conflict with the U.S. Constitution, don't you? If any state enacted legislation that blatantly disregarded the Constitution, you'd see a bevy of interest groups filing lawsuits and requesting (and being granted, for sure) injunctions to stop the enforcement of said laws so fast your head would spin. And finally, Pietro, Amendments can be repealed and new Amendments can be ratified.

This is true. Their is no law even giving citizenship to the children of illegals born in the United States. It's just been assumed and acted as if so

If pietro would have continued reading his wiki page he would have seen the section called "citizenship clause". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution.

There is no precedent set to make children born of illegals citizens, it has just been assumed.

the Arizona law is not discriminatory and only gives local officers the necessary tools to enforce laws that are already on the books. In nearly every country in the world you are expected to carry identification. The police can only ask for it if they are already engaged with the person on another matter.

It is a ridiculous waste of resources for the federal government to sue a state when the federal government will certainly lose. The law is sound and just. Arizona should be suing the federal government for failing to perform their duty to secure the borders.

As for the other stuff that will supposedly come out of this law like children losing citizenship are pure scare tactics. There is nothing in this law that addresses that issue.

The truth is I think we should welcome immigrants with open arms but I am sick of immigrant crime. Lets give the police the tools they need to remove the bad guys and let the people who are here to make a better life make better lives. The more people we have working the better for everyone. The harder we make it for illegals to work the more likely they are to turn to crime. Arizona may not have the right solution but it is a step in the right direction.

Illegals are a lot of the reason why California is in such a mess financially. All those liberals want to protect, aid and abet law breakers.

iI agree that if the past presidents and including this no nothing president would have done there jobs they would not have this prediciment. Arizona is in the right cotrary to what he think or does what part of the federal law doesn't he understand, of course it make him look good in the minority voting booth.Just my opinion.

Yes, RJV - These 'illegals' have only been committing crimes and causing problems since President Obama took office. And the REAL 'irony' is that had securing our Borders been a PRIORITY - especially after being attacked and all - none of this would make headlines today. (But you know what happens when you blame it on bush,...)

Jill.. You Ignorant Sl*t.. If nothing else you ARE predictable...

Stunning response. Your brilliance is astounding.

Feisty - its OK. I GOT this. Jill, Tulsa, OK doesn't bother me, although she is right about the 'founding fathers' bit. I have posted my correction later on in the blog (I think page 18).

Chris WHO?

You're watching TWEETY, Bag Boy. If that's your idea of "realistic coverage" ... well.

I'm tellin you Anna Molly he used to be a Tweety - lately he reminds me more of Foghorn Leghorn!

Actually, I tend to agree with you about "Tweety", Anna Molly.

However...Charlie Cook and Amy Walters are a different matter, entirely.

"Tweety" was listening to them.

So was I.

So should you.

Chris Matthews is trying to get the libs stirred up to donate more campaign funds to the liberal cause. You go Chris.

Watch out, JERSY GIRL 1...you can't give a shout-out to Chris Matthews here!

Be aware of your surroundings, GIRL...

Listen?! Bag Boy, what on earth do you take me for? Haven't I convinced you of my deliberately crafted ignorance YET? Sigh. So much time, so little to do.

Actually, I missed it the first time; I'll catch it on the replay. Right now, I'm having too much fun to listen.

Here I go again, It does costs alot of money for all these illegals to have babies here in AZ and them they he fathers of course not named at the DES system use their SS for jobs in. You see I should know because I have worked in the construction field for over 15 years and I have seen some crazy SS come by me with American Names and the people don't speak any ENGLISH !!! Hello Illegal written all over that.

Okay, Bag Boy ~ I listened, and it was pretty much mid-term election conventional wisdom, punctuated by unemployment numbers that are unlikely to change and the still-lingering effects of the economic pillaging that occurred during the Bush administration, but as to which democrats will likely pay the piper in 2010. I did find the analysis oddly lacking with regard to the probable effects of the oil spill crisis. For every positive republican factor, that -- and, in particular, Joe Barton's apology to BP -- provides a potential counterpoint.

But I'll tell you one thing, Bag Boy. Listening is HARD work. And so, from now on, I have no plan to listen to anything. Why should I, after all, when I have you to tell me what to think about it? And so charmingly, too.

Be careful what you wish for, Bag Boy. I can dish abuse, too, although not half so entertainingly as Feisty. I just choose not to.

Or do I? ;)

Thanks, Anna Molly...

After spending some time at First Read, I was beginning to think I had counter-charm.

I'll be happy to listen for you, and separate wheat from chaff...I do that for myself anyway, for heavenssakes.

Although...was that a veiled (or not so veiled) threat to heap abuse on me?

Hmmm...

And...you believe that Feisty's abuse is entertaining in nature, do you?

I have to be honest with you, Anna Molly...as one who has spent more that a little time in Feisty's sights, "entertaining" is not the first word I'd use to describe her unique approach to political discourse.

I've never felt "entertained", exactly...

In a perfect world, entertainment and abuse should never be viewed as one and the same.

Although, the Marquis De Sade might have begged to differ, I suppose...

Exception noted. All applications for dangerous liaisons considered. But, I didn't say YOU were entertained. ;)

get back on your meds

Hiram - with respect, you are wrong on this issue. From Wikipedia, here is the text of section 1 ofthe 14th Amendment:

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

Note the ABSENCE of the phrase 'of American Born Parents" ANYWHERE in this text. The text reads as follows:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

The Founding fathers were VERY CLEAR when they drafted this Amendment. I am sorry, Hiram, you are wrong in this case.

Look it up yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=14th+amendment+constitution&go=Go

If we go by the letter of the existing law - ok, so we send back the parents - they are illegal, and if they want to leave their children behind - oh well.

Pietro,

I expect that this will evoke lots of parsing of

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Here's one parsing that I can see coming:

If you are a child of an illegal immigrant, are or would you be "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? In this particular passage, I read 'jurisdiction" to mean country, and as the child of an illegal immigrant, are you not subject to the jurisdiction of whatever country in which your parents hold citizenship? If an illegal immigrant was arrested, would we inform his or her embassy? If that's the case, then that would imply that the appropriate jurisdiction rests with the home country.

Lawyers are going to have a fun time with this, and I'm sure that lots of folks will be up in arms, even after the Supreme Court rules. I have absolutely no doubt that this will ultimately end up with the Supremes, and left or right, one side will be unhappy.

The 14th Amendment may give rights to the child but not to the illegal parents.

pietro I agree completly with your comment. All children born on american soil should become an american citizen and there ILLEGAL parents deported within 2 or 3 days the after the birth and the baby put up for adoption. Unless the parents sign papers denying citizenship and have the baby deported with them. Maybe this would solve a lot of problems with ILLEGALS crossing the border to have their babys at our health care cost.

Living in LA

Exactly, and if we re-instituted the draft would we as a country be allowed to force those illegals to register for the draft? Last time I checked that answer would be no. Every country in the world would be screaming that we are violating their citizens soverign rights.

Pietro

Do yourself a favor and the history of the 14th as it was discussed by Congress it was pointed out before all members present by Senator Howard of Michigan. He stated "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons".

When this issue goes to the Supreme Court the court will be forced to take into account the intentions of the writers of this clause and the reasons that it was approved. You are right the drafters were very clear when they wrote this amendment and not for the reasons you stated.

Michael, very good point.

"The Founding fathers were VERY CLEAR when they drafted this Amendment. I am sorry, Hiram, you are wrong in this case."

You do understand this this was adopted after the Civil War, don't you? Hardly written by our "founding fathers" and was intended to deal with the issue of slavery, not illegal immigration. It was never, ever, intended to be used in the manner that it is being used today and as such most likely would not withstand a Supreme Court challenge.

If there is one thing the Founding Fathers were, ambiguous was NOT one of them. If Sen. Howard of Michigan was correct (and he is not), then the language of the 14th Amendment would not be as clear as it is. I would have had a qualifier in the language.

I am aware of the reasons and history of this amendment. The Founding fathers could have EASILY drafted the Amendment to make the Amendment narrower in scope, but the DIDN'T. Why is that?

The 14th Amendment is CLEAR in it's intent. The Founding Fathers intent was that ANYONE - free, slave, black, white, Native, Martien, green, polka-dotted - anyone born on United States soil is an American citizen. Period. Full stop. Toichka.

Everyone wants to put their 'spin' on this amendment, but the language could not be clearer.

Pietro,

Based upon the commentary, looks like today was a rough day. Not adding to the trauma, but the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868, which pulls it well out of the realm of the Founding Fathers. I think that this will end up in the Supreme Court, at which time, there'll be clarification. Whether we (anyone in particular, or the United States as a whole) like the clarification, well, that remains to be seen.

Pietro - I'm just wondering. Do you read anyone else's posts? It's been said a number of times that this amendment was NOT written by the founding fathers. Also, you completely ignore what other posters have said about the jurisdiction phrase. If this law does nothing more than try to enforce laws already on the books, then what is your problem? Pretty sure if I'm walking down the street and a police officer pulls over, they usually ask to see some ID. Watch a few episodes of COPS in case you missed that. Since when should it be different for anyone just because they are from one race or another? And please, do not compare the illegals to the black community. Most black citizens are legals residents of this nation and by trying to compare the two, you are trying to make it seem like the black community are as criminal as the illegal aliens.

Living in L.A. -- You don't need to be a lawyer, or maybe even an English major -- and I happen to be both -- to know that the words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof," mean that if you are born in the US or naturalized, and thereby subject to the jurisdiction OF THE UNITED STATES, then you are a citizen. There is no other country contemplated in those words, and nothing here to parse. But from your post, it's easy to predict that some mighty interesting attempts to TORTURE the plain language of the 14th Amendment may be in our collective future.

Let me add this. I'm not in favor of illegal immigration. But this much is clear. Without illegal immigrants, we won't have all those babies of illegal immigrants being born in US hospitals. Stop illegal immigration -- e.g., enforcing the law against many employers, including -- to my personal knowledge -- many "conservative" employers, who eagerly exploit them -- and you will end the problem of children of illegals being born here. You don't need to re-write the Constitution to accomplish this, nor will re-writing the Constitution necessarily stop illegal aliens from having babies here. But you DO need to revisit the xenophobia that drives you to opt for denying people their Constitutional rights rather than addressing the underlying problem.

Congress passed comprehensive immigration reform in 1986, but Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush (and probably Bill Clinton, too), failed to enforce the new law. Same thing in 1996, but add George W. Bush to that. Don't be naive. There are reasons why Republicans talk about immigration but never do anything about it. And this particular debate isn't about illegal immigration so much as it is about driving a wedge between groups of people -- as Pietro said earlier -- by waving a shiny object -- the 14th Amendment -- to take your eyes off the REAL problem -- the corporations that invite and exploit illegals, and our continual failure to assimilate them into society in a way that doesn't make them desperate, as Sad Parent suggested.

By the way, not all murdering drug dealers are illegal immigrants. Not even close.

So Anna, from your perspective, the employers are the problem? I'd buy that if you were only speaking of border cities, but who is responsible for these folks (illegal immigrants) in Los Angeles, in the San Joaquin valley, in Phoenix, in Denver, in Anytown USA? They're here, their employers are generally small firms that are able to pay "under the table", and I would guess, that the employer doesn't recruit from any other country. If the illegals weren't here, would unemployment be less in the U.S., or do you subscribe to the theory that no one else would do the work that the illegals do?

Keep in mind what I said, that people would parse the language of the 14th Amendment, and that the parsing that I gave as an example, was just that, an example, of what lawyers will do. I'm not a lawyer, don't pretend to be, really happy that I'm not, but it's a pretty safe bet that confusion will reign until such time as a ruling comes from the Supreme Court as to the legality of the Arizona law.

I'm not sure why enforcing the rules for employers is better than securing the border, which would seem to be a more manageable task. The firm that I work for uses E-Verify, so as to avoid any appearance of hiring illegals. I don't know why everyone doesn't use that method, maybe it's expensive.

Do you really care if the hiring agency is conservative or liberal, I don't. I also don't care if they're Republican or Democrat, and I don't know what bearing either of those affiliations has on this issue, unless it's your opinion that only conservative Republicans would hire illegal immigrants, which I suspect is untrue.

I don't recall advocating re-writing the Constitution, what I advocate is waiting for the ruling from the Supreme Court, and then accepting that ruling as law. Seems like that is where we are going, and I've been told that patience is a virtue, let's be patient, and wait for the outcome before we go off the deep end.

The 14th Amendment does not give citizenship to people purely because they are born in US soil. The law of jus soli does not apply here. This has been debated pretty much since the amendment was written. It's unfortunate that it was written so vaguely and hasn't been upheld properly. If you think about it logically, it's obvious that the simple act of birth on US soil does not give the right of citizenship.

The key phrase, and the one that has caused so much debate is: "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Why is that phrase there? If the law of jus soli applied, why wouldn't it just be written: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."? The theory that one qualifies for citizenship by merely being born on US soil is completely blown out of the water here. There wouldn't be the need for "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" if that were the case.

The problem is that some people think that since they are in the US, they are subject to US jurisdiction. In fact, they are. But surely the term "jurisdiction" means complete jurisdiction. If a traveler of foreign citizenship is in the US, they are not under complete US jurisdiction. Their home country can always intervene in any situation that involves their citizen. If you want to argue that it doesn't mean complete jurisdiction, then tell me why it is there?

I don't claim to be an expert on the Constitution, or an expert in law. But anyone who argues this must argue the need for the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" if you believe that being born on US soil gives the right of citizenship.

The way I see it, AZ is on a path to finally enforce the Constitution. There must be some law that circumvents the Constitution for us to be handing out citizenship to just anyone born on US soil.

the way i see it and the 14th Amendment state's.....

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

now have a closer look at the bold written words,means since we do not have any jurisdiction over

ILLEGAL immigrants ,because they are non citizen nor legal permanent residence of the United States of America ,children born of such person can not "automaticly" be citizen of the United States of America ,so therefore it is based purely on assumtion ,that any born person on our territory will granted citizenship .

Further more since Illegal immigrants ,in case of a pregnant woman ,just get here to give birth to her child and therfore does NOT reside nor has any residence whatsoever in the United States of America ,the newborn child is therfore NO subject for any citizenship manners under the 14th Amendment.

that is my point of view and iam a legal permant resident on my way to become ( legaly ) an American Citizen and to defend this Nation from foreign and domestic enemies

Living in LA - no, I think this is great. I do not have any ill feelings against anyone who does not agree with me. I am a little surprised at how peole 'spin' the issue, though. The funny thing is that I actually agree wit ha LOT of the posters.

I can also see what you are referring to as the 14th Amendment not being very clear and how it can be 'construed'. I do have to admit that answering 733 posts is a daunting task!! I will not be able to do it, but I will interject where I feel it is appropriate. A lot of the posts are venting about what the Government is NOT doing, and that is fine with me.

I do disagree with those who feel the 14th Amendment does NOT apply to others. I guess that a lot of my detractors have FORGOTTEN that THEY TOO were 'born on American Soil'. SO does that mean that we selective adhere to the 14th amendment? THAT will be an interesting discussion, no?

About the founding fathers - the posters are correct - the 14th Amendment was written around the Civil war days. I do not claim to be a History professor, so all of you that corrected me, Thank you for that.

Finally, I am not put off at all by the numerous posts disagreeing with me (in not so nice terms). I actually am pretty ambivalent about the whole immigration issue. I actually AGREE with a lot of these posters. What they fail to realise is that there are GAPING holes in our systrem that allows illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses, and in many parts of this country, the drivers license is the 'golden key' for almost everything that America offers. So, if the 10 states that DO allow illegal immigrants th get drivers licenses wold close that loophole, we would have a lot less issue with illetgal immigration. We could then be CONFIDENT (well, more confident, as I know licenses are faked) that our documentation for our citizenry is relatively secure. There will be NO NEED to ask for PROOF of citizenship.

I am QUITE enjoying this 'conversation' I am having with a lot of the people on here. If nothing else, preconcieved notions on what 'is gonna happen during traffic stops' can at least be dispelled.

I'll be ready for round 2 tomorrow.

Hoschi0913 To say that we as the US "do not have any jurisdiction over" any person inside the borders of the country is incorrect. The US has some jurisdiction over any person within it's borders. However, I see that the essence of your comment is correct regarding the 14th Amendment. The word "jurisdiction" has many different meanings and many different levels. I myself was not born on US soil. I am a naturalized US citizen.

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio: I'm not sure if you were arguing with me or if you were in agreement. I'm a little fuzzy by what you meant by "I do disagree with those who feel the 14th Amendment does NOT apply to others." What do you mean by "others"? It applies to everyone. Being born on US soil alone does not give the right of citizenship to anyone.

Pietro and all others,

I'm not a "power user" of First Read, however, I generally skim thru it each day. Last night I noted that there were 16 pages of activity on this thread, this morning there are 19. Even if not all of it is civil, and I think perhaps that there are some replications on the board, it certainly indicates a great deal of interest in what will no doubt become United States v Arizona.

Pietro, I've got to give you credit for stamina and for holding steadfast to your opinion. Lots of folks on the board have been, oh what's the word, let's use "unpleasant". Since we're all entitled to an opinion, I guess that's okay, probably not going to change your mind by being unpleasant, but what the heck, it may very well be that they don't want to change your mind, they might just want to vent. Personally I think it'll be in the Supreme Court before we get an answer, whether we like it or not.

Living in LA - I see it for what it is - people are venting because they are sick and tired of the crap. I can see their point, and I can see WHY people are 'for' this law. What these same people are NOT getting initially is that there were alternatives that were not explored. Once I confronted a few of them with that fact, the conversation got a lot more civil.

The mere fact that everyone THOUGHT that your driver's license was 'proof enough' for citizenship has been debunked on here, and by one of my most ardent detractors no less (the fact is there are 10 states that issue drivers licenses and are not limited to American Citizens).

Thabks for the kudos on my stamina, but I steadfastly believe that the AZ legislature had the right idea, but the wrong execution of that idea. Trampling MY rights as an American citizen to further their agenda is WRONG. American citizenship should be SACRED to American Citizens, and any law(s) passed SHOULD be done through that prism. It is pretty obvious that this is not the case.

As far as the 14th Amendment is concerned, I agree with you - this will PROBABLY be before the Supreme Court within the next few years. Unfortunately for a lot of people on this blog, that language in the 14th Amendment is pretty clear that there is nothing that they can do about it and I HOPE that there is a challenge so we can get this taken care of once and for all.

Pietro,

Perhaps you can explain one thing to me. I've noticed quite a few folks indicating that they would place the blame for the illegals on employers ( I have to be honest, that concept stuns me), and would prefer that laws designed to ensure that employers only hire legal residents of the U. S. be enforced, rather than securing our borders. Since there are probably millions of employers in the U. S., (not counting those of us who might employ folks from a day labor site now and then) and only seventeen states with a common border with another sovreign nation, why not just secure the border, and eliminate the problem that way? I realize that our border with Canada is huge (13 states), and the Mexico border is not insignificant either(4 states), but that seems like a more manageable task than monitoring (potentially) millions of employers. Clearly, employers should be complying with the law, but they obviously know how to evade the law, and who knows how many additional employees the IRS, (or whatever agency would be responsible for monitoring the employers), would need to enforce the law, as apparently, the law is not being enforced well now.

So well put John Lawrence!

Who is Bible and why does what he 'says' make a difference? If it is a reference to religion, shouldn't we separate Church and State as our Founding Fathers INSISTED?

Viva La Raza, gandalla...!

You are obviously joking..............

Game on! You didn't hold this land long enough to claim it - it was others before yours.

Also, try this illegal stuff back home and see what happens to you. Things will change, because the true and legal citizens of this country have about had enough. Stand back and watch the rockets fly. We have every right to protect our borders, like any other country. We are not singling out anyone - we already ask for ID if stopped for any violation - go to another country without a visa etc and see how far you get and how you are treated. Get real. Come legally, become part of this country or stay home!

Wasting your breath here, Dar-

You make way too much sense.

Trust me...they WILL turn on you.

Gandella you are going to get caught and when they do hopefully you go to jail with all the rest of the Illegals!!! You are Dumb !!! I hope we pass this law and other laws to stop Illegals from getting anything, because we as tax payers are paying for this !!!! This is BUll!!!

Very well said Irene.

Grandalla, stolen lands my butt. You la Raza clowns keep playing that kid game. Mexico not only lost the war that settled the issue, by treaty, but were paid millions by the US government as recompense, which was accepted by the Mexican government. Don't like the deal that was made? Take it up with Calderon.

true, given the federal governments continued inaction the southwest will be overrun with mexicans and maybe the states will vote to succeed and join mexico. Who cares though, they are already turning into Mexico, third world countries that look like crap. I wonder where the illegal immigrants will move after their new land becomes like their old.

AZ congratulation you found your scapegoat, instead of blacks, jews and emancipated women now you have your own modern enemy of the state - "the evil immigrant". These evil doers are responsible for everything, from unemployment, diseases, to unbalanced state budget. I am sorry for you guys, I really am. I especially like the argument often presented: that the AZ needs to have tools to fight a serious crime. You are really funny if you think that this law will help with drug trafficking or some serious crime. If anything at all these guys and their 2000$/hour lawyers will have yet another tool to fight 'illegal traffic stops'. All this stupid talk about how this law will help with crime, jobs, security is just a cheap politics (of politicians that don't have anything to offer - only to scare people with this BIGGGG Boooooogieman). Actually, I can't care less if you pass the law in AZ, I am not planning to go visit your fine state any soon, for the same reason I will not go for my vacation to China.

This law is nothing but politics 101 - if you don't have much to say find an enemy (somebody who is weak, easy to attack) or play on peoples fears - works all the times especially in southern regions.

now if that doesnt show how much you appreciate of being here, you surely are a disgrace to all Mexican / Hispanic / Latinos that come here legaly to truly better their lifes for themselfs and their Families

We should all file suit against the present administration for trying to make it illegal to enforce the one of the laws of the land! If this administration is really doing that, then it needs to go away.

Its because they're trying to form a North American Union. www.zeitgeistmovie.com

ABSOLUTELY AGREE, THANK YOU DAR-1421848. Where are the American people and what the hell are they thinking? Not to mention that O-bomb-ma isn't even an American himself........he is not an American and you wonder why he is taking this position. Please people, step up to the plate and lets not lose our rights and freedom.

So AZpatriot, how do we make the federal government enforce immigration laws? How do we secure the Arizona border if the federal government will not do it? How do we protect our state from the thugs that are crossing our border with AK47's and drugs?

The premise we have to consider is whether illegals are breaking the law when they cross the border illegally. Then we have to consider if you aid and abet someone who is here illegally by giving them housing or a job, etc., whether you are breaking the law. And, last, how do we decide of those crossing the border illegally, which ones can stay and which ones have to return to their native country? Giving everyone amnesty will not solve the problems Arizona is facing.

AZPatriot, in those cases, specifically the U.S. v Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), there was no definition of "legal" or Illegal" immigrant at the time (1898), so the decision was not based on that legal standard. In the other cases you cite, the court has never explicitly decided that the children were entitled to citizenship via the ammendment. The court has suggested or implied in dicta that the children are entitled to birthright citizenship, but it has never explicity handed down a decision citing the 14th ammendment as a basis. Become a citizen and all of this is moot. Why is that such a diffiuclt thing to accept?

AZpatriot,

Either you don't know what you are talking about or you are trying to pull a fast one on everyone. The case quoted below was based on legal immigrants, not illegals, so what are you talking about.

U.S. v Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898); Plyler v Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982), or INS v Rios-Pineda, 471 U.S. 444 (1985)....

Maybe I just don't understand, what is it about ILLEGAL that people don't understand?? They are here ILLEGALLY period. I think Arizona has ever right to enforce this law since the US government is not enforcing the laws that are already on the books. I really hope the US government tries to sue the state, and Arizona counter sues. I would contribute to that cause because let’s face it we end up paying anyway.

Illegal immigrants know we won't do anything ... we don't even require our president to show legal documentation ... can we say BIRTH CERTIFICATE anyone?!!!!!!!!!!!!

@dam tired of this

iam not sure if the state or a person for that matter can sue the federal goverment in the first place ,but i know for sure that illegal immigrants according to our Az Budget Office cost our state approximately $3 billion anually ,cost arraise out of food stamps ,education assistance ,medical care ,rent assistance ,assistance to purchase a car or any other goods for that matter and out of tax credit refunds ( up to $16 000 ) due to free IRS I.D. numbers and yes as most figure illegals dont pay tax ,but are entitled to those tax credits and any other entitlement mention before

Walt-1181015

Walt, well said! I and some of my friends ask the same question.

Yeah, it bull@!$%# like this that pisses me off. I am a working citizen and I can't even drive a BIG SUV, but they do and their women stay at home. When I pick up my kids at school there is nothing but Illegals over there!!! The DES system need to E-Verify and then we can see who gets assistance!!!

I love the U.S.A Thank you Jose Illegal

Thinking of giving up my citizenship then sneeking back in. Now theres an idea. 4+ million American at the same time foreit thier citizenship walk out and walk back in.

I work with Jose . . . It's nice to know someone who can still afford to have beer at their backyard BBQs . . .

Seriously, though, you are correct. The math sickens me.

You forgot that Jose's anchor-babies and cowbird-babies (the ones born elsewhere who mommy and daddy play to get sneaked in) also get free school breakfasts -- breakfast and lunch -- two meals of the day provided by American taxpayers.

To start with I will say that I have worked along with many people who got their work visa and came here legally. They are some of the best workers and the nicest people I have had the pleasure of knowing. For all you idiots that have no clue these people do NOT like those that come here illegally. So if there own don't like them doing it why should you. You are an American act like it and protect our borders. I am tired of paying the way for all these illegal immigrants to live better than I do. Try going to any other country illegally and see what happens. I praise Arizona for having the strength and guts to stand up and do what is law already. If that loser of a President of ours sues the state of Arizona for doing what is just then his history should be investigated. This administration has done nothing but cause us true Americans more problems than good. I respect the office but I have NO respect for him ( Obama ). He lied to us all right in our faces and I say impeach him and Bidden. We pay more for health care in this country so that we can support these illegals and their babies. Think about it. U.S. Airforce Disabled Veteran-Retired has a very true and valid point. If you don't like the laws then there's the door don't let it hit you on your way out. I welcome anyone to this country who does it legally but if you are here illegally I will escort you out of this country myself if need be to protect this great country of ours. I took an oath to protect this country against any enemies foreign or domestic and that I will do. You come here illegalthen you are a threat and must be removed by any means necessary. Simper Fi

You are so full of sh%^&

I have seen this going around the internet and it is so true. let your elected officials know that if they support illegals over tax paying Americans and afford them more rights than we have that the had better be looking for new employment opportunities, since they won't be representing you.

sounds like jose illegal works harder than that lazy a$$ joe legal... ..

USAF veteran,

As someone familiar with "the system" (at least in the NY/NJ area), I would like to question your Joe Legal/Jose Illegal comparison.

1. Since when are illegal immigrants eligible for welfare? I don't know of any illegal immigrants that receive an SSI check. Do you?

2. The amount of "illegals" who live in public housing is small, estimated at 30,000 people or so. That's less than 0.5% of the estimated amount of total illegal immigrants in the US.

3. How does Jose Illegal have access to "free federal and state clinics"? What state do you live in? As far as I know, Medicaid benefits are not extended to illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants can receive charity care in some states (like New Jersey, Washington), but many states don't have charity care provisions. Hospitals can turn away anyone uninsured, providing they aren't in an emergency situation (eg, they are having a heart attack, stroke, or hemorrhaging). As of now, if you are an illegal immigrant with cancer, the feds will not give you any dough for cancer treatments (though certain charities/organizations/hospitals may agree to foot your bill).

How about this scenario:

The chance that Joe Illegal, after taxes working on construction, makes more than Jose Illegal, is great. If Joe Illegal is working at a union shop, he will most likely make more than $35 an hour, and has the union to back him up in any disputes with management.

Jose Illegal, can make $31200 maximum. He can't join a union. If management jerks him around, he can't exactly complain.

If Joe Legal is fired, he can collect unemployment benefits.

If Jose Illegal is fired, he has to find some new work. He will not get unemployment benefits. He might not get paid anywhere near the $15 an hour he was making at his former job.

If Joe Legal is injured on the job, he can collect unemployment benefits.

If Jose Illegal is injured on the job, he will not collect unemployment benefits. Depending on his injury, and whether or not it is judged to "emergent", he may get treated in his local ER. Forget about rehab though, unless charity care covers it.

Joe Legal lives in a private home with his nuclear family (2 parents, 2 children).

Jose Illegal can't exactly walk into a bank and get a home loan, so he rents. His landlord knows that since he is illegal, he isn't going to squeal about the crappy shape the landlord keeps the apartment in, so the landlord doesn't have to worry about upkeep. In order to afford to live in the apartment, Jose's family has to live with 3 other families and their children (12 people in total), in a 1 bedroom apartment.

Joe Legal knows that if he works hard, he has a chance to be a foreman and move up the ladder in his company.

Jose Illegal knows that is probably impossible for him, unless his legal status changees.

I'm not saying that the US does not have the right to patrol its borders (it does), but what the Arizona/Anti-immigration crowd doesn't get is, businesses want illegal immigrants here to perform low skill jobs. They benefit by having a ready pool of laborers who don't come with a lot of red tape/paperwork. But rather than go after businesses who use illegal immigrant labor, they go after the illegal immigrants. There are a lot of Americans (of the country club/board of trustees crowd, not the Tea Party crowd), who enjoy the benefits of illegal immigration. Thus they let the rest of us squawk about it, while they pad their wallets.

If you want to crackdown on illegal immigrants, crack down on the wealthy who employ cheap labor paid under the table. Come up with migrant/immigration policies that make sense in terms of supply and demand, not stupid policies that have local police trying to figure out who is legal and illegal.

To USMARINEinTEXAS

You're absolutely right! I myself am a former immigrant and a proud US citizen for many years now! I have a great respect for this country, its laws and values. My heart bleeds from all the injustice and hypocrisy that we endure as Americans on the subject regardless of race and nationality. If our government is not doing anything to protect the citizens then I think the individual states have the right to protect its people; after all that's what they fought for back in 18th and 19th centuries -sovereignty and independence from central government to make decisions. I've seen so many people who don't even want to learn the language and procreate just so that they can stay on wealthware and our tax dollars pay for that! People make so much noise about the rights of illegals which I find very ironic and paradoxal; after all how can someone claim right if they're in the country illegally and have no loyalty to it on top of that; yet we have so many war veterans who need urgent medical care and financial aid and have to fight for it and prove they need it! That's really sad and shameful.

I've known myself many people who came into this country legally and they are very nice people and work just as hard as the rest of us and have great respect for this country; they are not happy about illegals either because it's their hard earned money and efforts, not the government, that pay for all the benefits that illegals get. They have no respect for our country, laws and values and they errode them more and more every day that we don't do anything about it. I applaude the Governor of Arizona for having the courage to stand up for her State and its people and not tolerate political correctness and media hypocrisy!

Stolen and fake documents, lying; for starters.

U.S. Airforce Disabled Veteran-Retired

This is probably the best way to explain the big issue we are facing, correction, have been facing as a country. I completely agree with you.

In Utah, food stamps are based on household size and income. They don't care if you are legal or not. If you have 1 legal citizen and 7 illegals in a household, you get the amount designated for a household of 8, based on the income of only the 1 legal citizen. They do not count the income of the illegals. It works similarly in other states. Utah hopes to change the rules soon. Soon, if you have 1 legal citizen and 7 illegals in a household, you get the amount designated for a household of 1, based on the income of that 1 legal citizen. The illegals use similar loopholes to exploit financial aid.

This proposal has of course seen a lot of opposition from the Hispanic community. It had better pass, or I'm moving to AZ.

METSFAN:

WRONG!!! Individual states vary as to whom they feel qualify for state benefits. So, in answer to your question: YES. ILLEGAL ALIENS QUALIFY.

Here's an example from my State's DSHS guidelines for eligibility:

How soon can I receive help with food and cash?

We decide if you are eligible for food assistance within 5 days if you show proof of your identity and meet one of the following:

• Your household will have less than $150 gross income and less than $100 liquid resources this month.
• Your household’s income and resources are less than your monthly rent and utilities.
• Your household includes a destitute migrant or seasonal farm worker.

A destitute MIGRANT or SEASONAL FARM WORKER is usually ILLEGAL—I know this as fact because a friend of mine is aiding and abetting his illegal Mexican girlfriend, who gets food stamps WHILE SENDING HER UNDER-THE-TABLE INCOME back to her parents in Mexico.

Please, know what you're talking about before you try conning people with lies.

I totally agree with wat your saying here in your example.I, born n raised in US am forced to look for work if I want benefits for me and my 3kids. Illegals who have 1-5 kids aren't forced to look for work because the don't have a social security. But on the other hand you have the Illegals (men) who do work and dont recieve any benefits. My fiance does work,has not recieved any benefits and supports me and my 3kids that aren't his, I now stay home to be with my kids. So , I say the ones who step up to the plate are the ones who should be Legalized.

Yes, Arizona is totally justified in making and enforcing this low. Americans capacity to support illegals is well maxed out and the the laws that states are proposing to fix this growing out of control issue reflects it. All 50 states should pass similar laws. Some illegals work for cash and pay no taxes. Some steal identities, end up paying taxes but f-up someones identity. The victims of that go through hell and back to clear there names. Tell them its all right to have more then 15 million illegals here. The U.S. indoctrinates hundreds of thousands of migrants legally each year. Those that apply go through a process that costs money; that money goes into the economy and further pays for police, fire fighters, hospitals, public schooling, parks, roads, and many many more quality of life programs.

So far that's only decent illegals. What about the real scum of the earth drug dealers. They have been murdering and terrorizing everybody that gets in there way on American soil. Mexico has a big interest in letting all of the illegals even the drug dealers come to the US. Many of the Mexican politicians and police are corrupt working with the drug cartels and the rest who are legitimately fighting the cartels are getting assassinated. Those facts dont come up with the liberal rich business elites and the republican, big business as usual, media outlets. It clear both parties in politics special interest groups and those getting rich from cheap labor doesn't want to de-escalate the problem saying Mexicans are doing the jobs Americans will not do which is total first class B.S., although sum areas of the country like Arizona are doing something about it.

Can the U.S. walk and chew gum at the same time? What I mean to say is the US is capable of going after employers of illegals also ohh boy two aspects of this issue at the same time!! Employers can hire those illegals at lower wages and by the masses, pass them up for wage increases and not pay them any benefits to mention a few.

Anybody who denies these burdens to the general public is either brain washed or just plain dumb. So Arizona pass that law and d-bag DOJ should answer to the public and not to big business.

It was not officials saying it stemmed from the AZ law, but speculation by the victim's brother. Nice try ...

I came from another country the legal way and learned the correct language. i served in our armed forces to protect our way of life so don't tell me that by passing this law it is going ot infringe on our rights. somethig like this should of happend before all this got out of control. i have problems if i get stopped by the police, i have nothing to hide. and by the way you should have to prove that you are a legal or sitizen before you get a drivers license. what is wrong with that? i think that the onley peoble that should have a proble with this law are the ilegals, drug lords in general the criminals. and Jersey girl you are 100% right with your commends.

The law doesn't go into effect until July.

I have said it before, illegal is illegal, nay criminal. This is a crime and a State has the right to arrest, detain, question and ask for ID. I also feel that, if we would all call ourselves American, instead of African American, Mexican American etc it would be a start. Maybe President Obama, should start, for he is not African, he is half black & half white, but who cares, he is an American. The AZ law is not unconstitutional as I have read it, but only a law that does not take away any Federal Power, nor conflict with the Federal Law. Anyone in authority, such as a police person, could overstep his/her authority at any time over any law. We are human and make mistakes, even the President could/has done so. I did not vote for Obama nor McCain and I will not vote for either of them, if they run again. I am a life long (74yrs) Democrat, a Catholic, a person of Irish, French and Indian descent, a husband (53yrs), a father of 8, a grandfather of 18, a retired teacher, coach, administrator of 32 yrs., and everything else that defines me, but above all I am an AMERICAN. Let us follow the law, be it Local, State or Federal until we change it. This is still a Democracy.

I have said it before, illegal is illegal, nay criminal. This is a crime and a State has the right to arrest, detain, question and ask for ID. I also feel that, if we would all call ourselves American, instead of African American, Mexican American etc it would be a start. Maybe President Obama, should start, for he is not African, he is half black & half white, but who cares, he is an American. The AZ law is not unconstitutional as I have read it, but only a law that does not take away any Federal Power, nor conflict with the Federal Law. Anyone in authority, such as a police person, could overstep his/her authority at any time over any law. We are human and make mistakes, even the President could/has done so. I did not vote for Obama nor McCain and I will not vote for either of them, if they run again. I am a life long (74yrs) Democrat, a Catholic, a person of Irish, French and Indian descent, a husband (53yrs), a father of 8, a grandfather of 18, a retired teacher, coach, administrator of 32 yrs., and everything else that defines me, but above all I am an AMERICAN. Let us follow the law, be it Local, State or Federal until we change it. This is still a Democracy.