Hey Disgusted-in-Pa - that's not crow that's Elephant Dung Spread All Over! The repugnant ones need a hazmat team stat to clean up Black Bart Jerky Joe Barton's gushing mouth.

What's changed.?The clean up is still a disorganized mess. There is still no point man on clean up. Did he finally waive the Jones act so the advanced skimmers from over seas can be used? What has actually changed?

Disgusted in PA,

I wonder how it is going to play out. How will people react to the fact that Barton makes a statement he claims to be his own (right) Bonehead calls him into the principals office and threatens him to change his mind to be the same as Boneheads or loose his position. I guess we now have seen a glimse of how Repugs keep the members in line. Fear management. Watch out America, if you do not agree with them bad things may happen to you.

Gary, there are foreign skimmers in the Gulf. Obama did not waive the Jones act but went ahead and brought in skimmers. They have been there for quite a while. It's been discussed before.

Democrats and Republicans are playing the game Dumb and Dumber. It almost appears They are continually trying to see who can be the Dumber. I believe The Republicans took back the crown of the dumber, but fear not I am sure the fight for this crown is not over.

Remember if you blindly follow either side, bad things happen.

Can liberals ever make a point without calling names? Democrats resort to name calling and still nothing gets done. Grow the hell up. What did yesterday accomplish- Jack @!$%#!!!! Your leader is still a complete failure and the problem is no where near being fixed. Yep, they sure did what they are good at- campaigning! But you paid for his little trip to Ohio to once again promote his own agenda.

Eric in Salinas, Doesn't your screwed up state have enough issues for you to rally with your fellow American haters?

Griff,

Does it really embarrass you that much that our President was able to extract $20 billion in one day to compensate the poor victims while YOUR savior Barton is busy spilling the beans on how the GOBP really feels about Americans affected by this criminal negligence?

The name calling is pretty much a response to the fact that your side is unable to present a single (DOCUMENTED AND VERIFIABLE) fact and seems only to be able to spew epithets in response to a cogent and coherent argument supported not by opinion fluff, but by actual hard facts. When you people can engage in a reasoned and intelligent debate of FACTS, without resorting to name calling and throwing ridiculous straw men, we can also refrain from pointing out that your ACTIONS and WORDS make you appear to be morons, idiots, (insert any other pejorative here). Until then, bring it on moron!

Responding to the headlines asking if Obama has turned the corner...He was never on the street!

Griff999 - You keep stating that "our" president didn't accomplish anything yesterday. Well are you aware that the cap - put into law by those republicans that you think will save this country & that benefits only the oil companies - is only $75 million. $75M would have lasted about one week with the costs of the clean up increasing daily. Not to mention the fact that if Obama had listened to the GOP and pushed the issue, BP could have simply went to court, spent years doing legal maneuvers and then only be responsible for paying that $75 million. I believe that $20 BILLION will cover a little more then the amount that "your" administration would have acquired.

Take off the Republican colored glasses and see the situation for what it is, not what you wish it was. Every time people like yourself hope Obama fails, what you are really hoping for is the failure of America - and you are putting your ignorance on display. Why not discuss how Haliburton continues to avoid being in the media, but was responsible for constructing the oil platform... and the blowout preventer. You know, the one that didn't work....

OBAMA didn't "extract" 20B.... BP has always accepted blame and has said they are responsible. The GOVERNMENT holding back and telling foreign aid (on day 3!!!) to stay away did more to hurt than help. You need to understand that BP stands to make money either way. (cap and trade passes they make money) and you need to look at who sold stock right before the spill, then said ah go ahead and drill then took it away, not to mention that 2 weeks before this our country GRANTED (that means they don't have to pay it back!) 2Billion to Brazil for oil... guess who's drilling in the gulf.. BRAZIL!!! more of our money going to foreign governments. and more of our jobs... yeah good going government...

Our government is out of touch, we the people can do better in common sense every day of the damn week.

Greg, since you are in the military, you should realize by now that you do NOT have a full picture of what is going on, just the crap that your (republican) superiors feed you, I well know, I was in the military too. I appreciate your service now, but DONT YOU DARE DENIGRATE THOSE WHO SERVED AND WERE INJURED IN DOING SO, otherwise you put down the very thing you are doing now. I could go on about how you are obviously a jarhead, have an IQ of around 80 and were unable to find any sort of employment as a civilian and probably crapped your pants the first time a bullet went Wheeeet past your head in training. Don't disrespect those who have done your job before!

In my day, under Reagan, you could be courtmartialed for saying negative things about the President, particularly in a public forum. My advice to you, soldier, is to Shut up and Soldier, leave the politics to the civilians and those who have already been there and done that. Remember, politicking while you are in the military is against the UCMJ.

Obama turning a corner on the spill? JMO, but I think that he's headed for a crash. What has changed? The Obama administration doesn't even know how much oil continues to be released into the Gulf. No one seems to be control. No one is monitoring what BP is doing (or NOT doing!), and nothing is being done to STOP THE LEAK! BP was not elected to office. They are only answerable to their shareholders. Obama is answerable to us.

B. Honest, let's be honest, Greg is right: This president is an absolute joke, a political hack!

If you think BO is doing a fine job, with no due criticism, then you, sir, need your head examined.

Considering EVERYTHING that he was handed, the nearly destroyed and bankrupt government, 2 badly going wars and and the economy sinking fast, an opposition that is trying it's best to sabotage him at every turn and the big business world is helping them do it. Is he doing everything perfectly?? No. But is he actively bringing down the Govt. like Bush did, No. He is hip deep in a swamp fighting the alligators and has been winning. No matter what the media are portraying. He is smart, collected and actually doing his best for the Nation, rather than the hideous joke that sat in that office preceeding him that damned the people and made sure that big business reaped the wealth, to our woe. There are things he is doing that I do not agree with, sure, any President is going to, but overall, he is doing a MUCH, MUCH better job than Bush and far and away better than McCain/Lipstuck Pig would have done. So maybe it is You who needs the head examined, if you think Bush was doing better.

And Greg is TOTALLY wrong in dissing a Disabled Veteran, he should have known better from the start!

So, when are we going to impeach this lawless tyrannical buffoon -- along with his repugnant sidekicks, Pelosi and Biden?

The "Federal" government is now doing more than ever before "none of that for which it was instituted!"; -- and, it is accelerating at a pace never before seen in the history of this UNION of sovereign States.

Consider this statement by Mr. Madison, in Convention at Philadelphia: "...he [President] was to be impeached by the other branch of the Legislature, and for ANY act which MIGHT be called a misdemeanor." -- including, according to the journals, incompetence, dereliction of duty, perfidy, bribery and being under the influence of foreign powers (i.e. the taking of foreign campaign contributions), etc., etc., etc.

Obama is a grand-stander that wants nothing more than to use temporary exigencies to lawlessly further "Federal" aggressions and encroachments against the rights and liberties of the People -- so he can facilitate his agenda of aggressions against the TRUE sovereigns of this UNION: the States, their INDIVIDUAL economies, commercial and agricultural interests, manufacturers, financial and educational institutions, morals, customs, health, wealth, property, natural resources, etc., etc., etc.

Obama and his repugnant faction has in effect declared WAR against them by declaring WAR against EVERYTHING that the "Federal" government was instituted to protect and preserve -- i.e. their sovereignty, wealth and property; -- the RIGHT of each State as an independent society of sovereign people to govern and decide FOR THEMSELVES, their INDIVIDUAL customs, interests, morals, habits, etc. -- and, for EACH to decide for themselves how democratic, generous or frugal they want to be within their own individual SELF-GOVERNING societies without the "Federal" government lawlessly interfering and making such decisions for them.

This UNION was NEVER meant to dissolve the States and the People into one mass, but "Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a SOVEREIGN body, INDEPENDENT of all others, and only to be bound by its own VOLUNTARY act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and NOT a national constitution." (Madison, fp39)

What Madison said above is categorically consistent with that which could not have been made plainer in the Convention at Philadelphia: "...the General Govt was meant merely to PRESERVE the State Governts: NOT to govern individuals: that its powers ought to be kept within narrow limits;" (Wed, June 27, 1787)

The 9th and 10th Amendments to the Constitution were added so as to remove any doubt whatsoever on this FUNDAMENTAL principle and point.

Obama is nothing but a lawless tyrant that cares nothing for preserving the State governments and their RIGHT (as the TRUE sovereign societies in this UNION) to govern themselves by the very governments meant to be PRESERVED by the "Federal" government, but only about his (and his lawless tyrannical faction's) lust of power and control over the States and their governments and the people composing them -- lawlessly dissolving the States into one great repugnant mass (society) and making them (as one mass) utterly dependent on its repugnant arbitrary WILL.

As was once said for justices, "...if a justice wants to legislate, that justice should run to be a legislator".

And, as for OBAMA and the lawless repugnant faction with which he plainly aligns himself and to which his true alliance resides: "...if he wants to govern PEOPLE, he should have run for Governor (President and Commander in Chief of a member or foreign State that is more to his liking)!" He should NOT be President of a UNION of sovereign States whose governments were meant to be PRESERVED by him!

It is lawless Federal legislation that got us in this mess -- because the States were denied their right to regulate their own shores and make whatever bargains (with lawful congressional oversight) that would be in their own society's best safety and commercial interests regarding the exploitation of THEIR own shores and natural resources to which they (NOT the "Federal" government) has original jurisdiction. And so, in that regard, the States (NOT the "Federal government") would be appropriately taking responsibility for THEIR OWN SHORES, which is their RIGHT under the U.S. Constitution and Law of Nations, and not to be at the mercy of a lawless tyrannical FEDERAL government run amuck -- a government that has NOT the whole power of legislation over the States (Madison, fp 55) and never meant (with utterly no lawful authority whatsoever) to do virtually any of the things it does today against States foreign or domestic!

Not only do our member States need to aggressively rise up and defend themselves against this lawless tyrannical "Federal" government run amuck, foreign States should be outraged and it is confounding that they, themselves, have not aggressively called the "Federal" government to the carpet in international world courts or at the U.N. and demand that it cease and desist. Instead, they continue to allow themselves to be harassed and bullied by a governing body that is plainly and utterly operating outside its lawful Constitutional bounds and contrary to the Law of Nations.

"Independent of parties in the national legislature itself, as often as the period of discussion arrived, the State legislatures, who will always be not only vigilant but suspicious and jealous guardians of the rights of the citizens against encroachments from the federal government, will constantly have their attention awake to the conduct of the national rulers, and will be ready enough, if any thing improper appears, to sound the alarm to the people, and not only to be the VOICE, but, if necessary, the ARM of their discontent." (Hamilton, fp26)

Morning Gingerbread,

Things are starting to look better. The repugs are being exposed for what they are every day now. THe ropea dopes of nope are showing their true colors and I hope the DEMS are taking notes and keepin the video clips to remind our fellow Americans what is really at stake here.

I watched Keith and Rachael last night and they seem to be back on their game doing what they do best. Just the Facts.

'morning Retired, Yes things are looking brighter, now if only the dopes that buy into what they are trying to sell would pay attention.

I have no problem with differences in policymaking as long as it can be done in a meaningful way, no one person has the answer. However, when the pushback is filled with lies and distortions and the leaders of the opposition dont have the courage to tell the extreme members to dial back their comments, that is when I get very partisan.

I watch Keith and Rachel almost every night, I like their take on the world. I like that Rachel, has taken to shining a big spotlight on that extremist Sharron Angle in Nevada. Rachel is very good at presenting the facts in a very nonconfrontational, her research is excellent as well as her followups later down the road.

Gingerbread,

I agree 100%. There are a lot of good ideas out there and we should take advantage of the best ones to the advantage of every American. If we band together it can be done. Rachael is the best at presenting the facts. I try to wach her every night. Her research team is outstanding.

US Navy and GingerBreadlady, what has changed? Is the clean up going better? Do we ahve a central figure now , fianlly, in charge of the cleanup? Has the well been stopped? BP was already paying damages. What has changed?

Gary,

I wouldn't ask those two anything about what has changed. It seems by reading their posts they have swallowed the Obama kool-aid in massive doses. Worshipping members of the Obama team never see any evil associated with this administration.

You are correct - nothing has changed, nor will it because there is no leadership. Unfortunately those who worship can't, or won't see it.

Those who worship Ronald Wilson Reagan plainly can't see Earth. Admiral Thad Allen, ever hear of him?

It's easy to say things are looking better when you are looking from a distance. I live in Louisiana. There is a lot of disgruntled Obama supporters here. Most probably would ask for their vote back if they thought they could get it. Obama has not been very help full. He has hurt the economy of a huge part of the state with his moratorium on drilling. Other drillers, which were playing by the rules, which did thing the right way, are being punished. Some of the deep water rigs are already moving out. When the 6 month moratorium is up, those rigs will not be coming back. He has created unemployment of the crews of the rigs, the support crews, the supply boats, the machine shops that serviced the parts, ever thing associated with those rigs. Thank you Obama.

This knee-jerk reaction is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Gary, it is disgusting, too, when we now learn that Obama's "experts" who signed off on his "plan" are unanimously stating they NEVER recommended the moratorium, that it was added after they signed on the plan. And, we wonder why don't trust government?

Hey BrianB,

The reason they've swallowed the Obama koolaid is because they take the Obama (taxpayers) handouts. Its easy for some to follow a philosophy like that, where doing nothing gets you rewarded by the ones that do.

Why can't I stop laughing? Oh yeah, it's because of the ridiculous talking point that if we stop drilling long enough for a safety review no oil will ever be extracted from the Gulf again. No, they'll NEVER come back to a place that's proven to have large oil reserves and a nearby market for the product. What sort of idiot would do THAT!

BTW Gary, perhaps we'll find out that the problem isn't BP, it's the RULES. Rules that don't require additional safeguards that are commonplace in places like the North Sea. Rules that don't care if dangerous short cuts are taken. Maybe the others are following all the rules. So were most of the banks that crashed the entire world economy late in the Bush Administration. If the rules don't forbid metal shavings in your hamburger then I haven't broken any rules when I serve you a hamburger with metal shavings. Doesn't mean it isn't wrong.

John, the gulf must look good from Des Moines. Your experience with off shore drilling is over whelming. Do the drill consult with you for good sights, leases, permits, scheduling of the rigs, or are you just throwing out your personal beliefs that have no bases in facts? When the main product of your state is corn, it's hard to back up your knowledge of drilling.

OK Gary, I get it. You live in LA and that makes you an expert on high finance and capitalization of private infrastructure projects. Money moves to places where it can make a profit. That's not Cajun, it isn't oil business, it's universal. If there's oil to be extracted profitably it will be...end of story.

Being the expert on deep water rigs used in Iowa, I assume yoy know that rigs are scheduled years in advance. Where ever the rigs are going, coast of Brazil, Nigeria, it will be years before those same rigs are moved back, if ever. Since the fields in Brazil a fairly new, any rigs moving there are gone for good. Pretty much well true for Nigeria. The only way we will see deep water rigs that are moved out, is if we see the replacements, and those are scheduled years out in the build. But, all this may not hold true for the rigs in Iowa.

May as well give up Gary....people who don't live on the Gulf Coast and in states where Oil and Gas is a major industry have very little idea of what is actually involved in the process. Those of us who live in Louisiana and see the damage the spill is causing not only to our beloved Gulf but also to our wetlands, seafood industry as well as all of the people who are employed in the oil and gas industry are very well aware of how much damage Obama and his delayed reaction and knee jerk moratorium are hurting our state! Had Obama spent less time spreading blame (to every single person/business BUT himself and his administration!!) and trying to find out "whose a$$ to kick" maybe he could have actually tried to DO SOMETHING the way our Gov. Jindal has!!

OK Gary, I bow to your expertise. The oil industry is an exception to the rule that capital flows to places where profit is available. Sorry, I had no idea that your talking point was rendered bulletproof by exception to the laws of Economics. Must be those amazing schools they have in LA.

You guys are amazing! You sound like Obama caused the spill and BP had nothing to do with it. You sound like Obama should be able to wave a magic wand and make it all go away and since he can't he is useless. It reminds me of when Britney Spears was publicly messing up her life and the lives of her children and the whining guy cries "Leave Britney alone!" BP is destroying an entire ecosystem and millions of livelihoods and you are whining "Leave BP alone!" and "Make Obama fix it!". I suggest you take a step back and re-read the above exchange and tell me why anyone should listen to you, when you sound like whining children. If someone fact checked it you would all be embarrassed.

Hey Chris!

Nice to see you around! Safe travels and we'll take care of the cheeto chompin trolls in your absence! ;0)

I know you will Red! I look forward to reading it in the evenings. Should be better than prime time.

Feisty, don't bother with Dorr, he is looking for another species.

Okay..okay one more time from the top..this the BP spill, POTUS does not drill for oil, fix leaks or clean up spills, that is the domain of the responsible party, BP, EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOTHING BUT MEDIA/PUNDIT SPIN!! As far as the Coast Guard doing their job in keeping and maintaining safety standards I would tell them to keep on keeping on. Media Matters covered this BOGUS ABCstory this morning, another case of Junkdal grandstanding, mark my words he is going to do something that will set off some kind of malfunction due to his piss poor leadership. I was an offshore pipeline inspector for Shell in this area and know the extent of the 40k miles of pipeline crisscrossing this area. I would also like to congratulate the pundit,talking heads for crushing the tourist industry in the gulf, they have done a far better job than any amount of BP oil has done. Has anyone noticed that the shorline oil Armageddon has yet to happen, do you think maybe the offshore containment effort may be working, Her are some quick facts from the Deep Water Horizon website. Remember November and the end of the GOBP.

RESPONSE VESSELS

Vessels of Opportunity: more than 2,930

Barges: more than 555

Skimmers: more than 447

Other Vessels: more than 2,520

Total active response vessels: more than 6,450

Aircraft: 94

BOOM DATA

Boom deployed: more than 2.41 million feet

Boom available: more than 489,000 feet

Total boom: more than 2.89 million feet

OIL RECOVERED

Oily water recovered: nearly 21.9 million gallons

Amount estimated burned: nearly 5.20 million gallons

Oil captured (CAP) over last 24hrs: more than 829,000 gallons

DISPERSANTS

Surface dispersant used: more than 902,000 gallons

Subsea dispersant used: more than 423,000 gallons

Total dispersant used: more than 1,325,000 gallons

PERSONNEL INVOLVED

Overall personnel responding: more than 31,000 personnel responding

JoAnna,

Is it your contention that the unions will be filing claims against the $20 billion fund for lost income or business? If so, then your paranoid delusions MIGHT have at least a shred of validity. If not, you are just raving again. You may want to get a blood test and make sure your meds are at therapeutic blood levels.

Yes, Governor Jindal is busy showboating and whining about how little the government is doing to help him. Did he forget his widely communicated theory that it is best to not be dependent on government and to let the people stand together and solve their problems? I am sure BP has a lot of people they can send to Bobby for him to direct and organize the proper response. Why would you be waiting for government to help you when government is the problem and you are well on your way to crippling and disabling government's ability to provide any assistance anyway. I mean, it was not public funds that were committed to the $20 billion fund, right? This is exactly as it should be Bobby. You get not a dime of public money, you are not beholden to big government getting in your way, and thanks to the President, there might even be enough money in the fund to actually clean and restore your area when the leak is finally capped. Gee, what more could you ask for?

Show trials? You want show trials for those responsible for oversight that dropped the ball? I agree. Let's start with the minutes from Cheney's 2001 closed door energy meetings where the relaxation of regulations and safety measures was discussed, shall we? If not, how about the laws passed by the GOBPers of the last administration that MANDATED that ALL decisions on permits be made within THIRTY days? That meant that there was NO way possible to actually perform meaningful inspections, safety checks, or any meaningful review BEFORE the permits were granted. It was costing the GOBP way too much money waiting for all those tree-hugging environmental wackos to complete all the mandated and required safety checks and inspections. So, a quick little wink, wink and a late night vote made it such that the MMS could no longer get in the way of the permit process and was essentially forced to provide waivers on EVERY rig as there was no way to complete environmental impact studies, etc. within the mandated 30 days. That might not have been as much of a problem as it ended up being but for the fact that the GOBP also removed every single member of the MMS that had the requisite experience, education, and skills to perform their oversight functions and replaced them with a bunch of un-qualified meth freaks and porn addicts and asked them to look the other way while big oil had their way with the entire regulatory process.

JoAnna, you seem like a nice (although seriously and sadly delusional) lady. Maybe you should turn off Faux News and do some hard-hitting INDEPENDENT research on things you clearly know nothing more about than the standard talking points. If you think your atrophied brain can survive the strain of independent thought, you might find you are a lot happier in life and don't have to always look over your shoulder for the boogieman. Just because Glenda is scared and delusional does not mean you have to follow his example...

Well I'm glad to see that the Cheerio Go-Kart Racing Circuit isn't restricted to men only

JoAnnSmith, your just plain nuts.

I absolutely love your thoughtful presentation of facts to combat hysterics. I've relations in the effected areas and terminally impotent, frightened, and scared for them. I've personally been mad-as-a-wet-hen over most criticism of the Administration's actions here. We appreciate the methodical way Obama is handling this. Old school! Do it right the first time. He slowed down long enough to attempt to get reliable facts, gather appropriate response together.

Media has ignored obvious lack of expertise of any existing entity in America to deal with this. Obama prioritized this. I feel his putting the PEOPLE issues of the Gulf on the same par as the spill. I celebrate his strength and determination to secure the financial reserves so the Tax-Payers are not saddled with this.

Big Business and Republicans be damned - They won't pay taxes for this regardless, they have loop=holes (Reagan listed his cattle as dependents on his taxes for years). We would have if Obama had not made certain BP had put in escrow those funds.

I am astounded by blatant ignorance and outright racist reactions to any and everything our President does. Joe Barton should be sanctioned and removed from his seat!

We can be certain that many unions will be allowed to tap into that fund during the clean up of the Gulf

I'm not a big fan of unions but wtf is your point here? Union workers don't deserve to be paid? And, just for clarification, what unions are you talking about?? Come up with something more than your own stereotypical blathering.

something about making sure they have enough life-vests

Just a guess but, as someone who works under OSHA regulations, I can understand making sure that proper safety gear is extremely important not only for saving life and limb but also for litigation purposes. I find it ironic that you would be complaining about this since it was lack of safety regulations enforcement that cause THIS WHOLE DAMN PROBLEM.

Damn...What a stupid comment. As if you wouldn't be the first turkey jumping up and beating a pie pan on how Obama sucked if someone was injured or killed from a skimmer boat if they weren't following safety reg's. Have you something intelligent to say or wut???

Thank goodness Governor Jindal is..... doing his job to try and save as much of the Gulf coast that he can.

Wow...Talk about your savior complex... After saying this I would hope you would not be crying about people viewing our president as some sort of savior.

As a citizen of the gulf, I truly hope that Jindal's ideas work and don't cause more problems than they solve.

when can we expect them to call the Obama administration Cabinet members and Czars to the Capital building to hold them accountable

Gee, hypocrite, can we take the dog and pony show on back to include Cheney's closed door energy meetings or the entire bush admin. removing environmental regulations so that big industry could rape it or how about the Bush admin's operation of MMS? These are also very relevant to what has happened in the gulf. While were at it lets ask bush and cheney about the Iraq war and torture, etc.

If you want justice, that's fine, but take it back to include the last administration which really created all of these problems.

jomama72

Has anyone noticed that the shorline oil Armageddon has yet to happen, do you think maybe the offshore containment effort may be working

I'm not sure what you mean by "shoreline oil armageddon" but the shores are oiled. Clean up crews come clean it up in many cases and then it comes right back. Are you going to swim in that? Do you want to look at that? Often times the beaches smell like freshly laid asphalt not salty ocean air. How would you like to vacation in that? I wouldn't.

Do I think the oil containment might be working? No it isn't working very well at all. As a matter of fact, it sux. They're getting up some of it and I am cheering for that but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what is getting through and killing the wildlife and oiling the coast line.

Where are you located, Jomama? Have you visited the beaches? Things aren't good down here. Things aren't even getting better down here. The beaches are oiled one minute, clear the next and oiled again. Fishing has been shot in the azz by the oil. Oysters? Shrimp? LOL! Forget it.

The media has been reporting the truth that the oil spill has ruined tourism and fishing down here. Why would anyone in their right mind plan a trip to a place that may or may not look like a petrol dump?

I applaud the efforts to clean up but the tourist industry fallout is not a result of over reacting media. It's because of the oil!

Safety, yes, but to stop the skimmers for 24 hours to do a life jacket check, that didn't get done anyway......love to hear your comments if it was your coastline being destroyed!!!!!

jomama72

Okay..okay one more time from the top..this the BP spill, POTUS does not drill for oil, fix leaks or clean up spills, that is the domain of the responsible party,

Well that is certainly an interesting point. I do seem to recall the Democrats had a very much different view of what the POTUS was supposed to do, and not supposed to do, after Katrina.

And what's FEMA up to these days? Haven't heard much from them on this oil leak deal now have we? During Katrina they were supposed to save the world. Now they don't even show up.

JoAnna, JoAnna, JoAnna... You poor delusional soul. I really want to help you, but you need to first admit you have a problem and that you want help.

You cannot compare a natural disaster like Katrina with man-made, criminal negligence like with the BP Deepwater Horizon. The difference (though it SHOULD be obvious to any human being with a functioning brain) is that FEMA is meant to be the first responder to the needs that people will typically face with a natural disaster like a tornado or a hurricane. FEMA was created to bring together those people with the most experience and the skill sets needed to quickly and effectively distribute aid. You know, like all the trucks of ice that the Bush administration ordered to park a few hundred miles away from where they could have been used? Yeah, Brownie did a real bang up job on buying all those asbestos infused trailers huh? Had FEMA been staffed with people that actually had a clue and GAVE A DAMN about those people they were supposed to be providing for, Bush might well have escaped from that morass less damaged than he did.

In the meantime, you want to compare the criminal negligence of BP for cutting corners, over ruling safety engineer warnings, de-activating portions of the Blow Out Preventer, and equating the slow poisoning of the Gulf over the course of slow agonizing months. What would you have FEMA doing to assist in the Gulf? Should they be putting all those cleanup workers up in the toxic trailers? Should they be dumping the semi loads of ice into the marshlands to dilute the oil?

Really JoAnna, if you insist on participating here on this board (and I encourage you to continue), you really should take the time to figure out what your point is and then actually do some research to find facts that support your position and refute those of your opposition. If you choose to simply come on here and regurgitate meaningless drivel those that are determined to keep you ignorant have chosen to feed you, you will find yourself repeatedly being turned into cannon fodder by people like me that do NOT come to the party without the ability to give AND take with facts and actual opinions that are formulated in my own little cranium and are not fed to me by some Australian Media Mogul that wants to maintain his control on the 23% of people that are so brain dead they still worship at the alter of GWB.

Jingle needs to talk with his budies at BP. You know like Barton and oil. Maybe Jingle should talke with BP and Barton about helpin Louisiana...

Amazing that Jingle gets a pass while the Myor during Katrina got all the fault. I guess one time it's the mayor's obligation and the next time it's the Feds obliation . Both disasters. Switcheroo in philosophy.

Barton the oil executive. hahahaa

JoAnnaSmith,

I was thinking the same thing. If a Republican were president, the democrat/liberal/progressives would be screaming bloody murder! There would be tar and feather committees appointed everywhere. There would not only be talk of impeachment, the lawsuits would already have been filed against the White House. You wouldn't hear anything like - the president's taking time to analyze the situation and doing it right the first time.

Notice how when the conservatives speak out about the president's policys and his lack of action, the first term bandied about is "racist." Is everything "racist" with the progressives? The rethoric coming from the left is sickening. They elected this loser. Now they have to defend him and the only way to do it is by minimizing anything a conservative has to say about it.

Notice to progressives that try to minimize conservatives - we know your game. You aren't fooling anyone. In most instances I simply laugh at your lame attempts to avoid facts and reality by name calling tactics. It only goes to show that you have no excuse for putting this inexperienced, snake oil salesman in the White House.

Brian,

I eagerly digested your entire post looking for even one of the "facts" that you refer to. I was thwarted in my attempt by the utter lack of even one fact in your entire post. Now, if you care to actually provide a fact, or something that we can actually debate, I will agree to lower my standards and engage with you. I will even give you a chance to go read something, ANYTHING, that you feel you are prepared to debate. I will refrain from using the words that come to mind in describing what I feel to be your level of intellectual prowess, and will limit myself to a treatment only of the facts.

To quote a prominent FORMER leader of the free world... "Bring it on!"

Joanna

Well that is certainly an interesting point. I do seem to recall the Democrats had a very much different view of what the POTUS was supposed to do, and not supposed to do, after Katrina.

Several cities were destroyed and people were starving and dying. Different scenario. Plus, everyone watched as Katrina got closer and closer and closer....There was time to see that a huge storm was about to tear somebody a new one.

And what's FEMA up to these days? Haven't heard much from them on this oil leak deal now have we? During Katrina they were supposed to save the world. Now they don't even show up.

FEMA hasn't, up to this point, ever been outfitted to handle colossal oil spills. Sorry... Maybe now they will but the gov't has indeed brought ships and gear from other countries to help with the containment and clean up.

They could do better though and I wont argue that. Having said that, how many hurricanes have had to be cleaned up over the years? Plenty. FEMA was created for just such events and should have had plenty of real time practice.

Disgusted in PA - In reading your comments, the conclusion I draw is that you don't think that killing off the delicate eco-system in the estuaries, tributaries and waterways as an environmental disaster, manmade or not. The function of government is to protect. The current administration has failed to do that.

You may have never been to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or the panhandle of Florida to see the shoreline and the natural beauty of the balanced systems. You may not eat oysters, shrimp or fish or even come close to understanding what losing these vital resources mean to the economy of the region. From what I can tell, your only interest is in trying to preserve the name Obama. You go to great lengths to defend the incompetent and inexperienced response to this disaster.

The government could have done MANY things to stop the oil from reaching the shores. Containment being the prime example. Refusing help from other countries is another. Suspending the Jones Act should have been the first thing done. All these things could have been done but since your worshipful master is soooooooooooo inexperienced at making executive decisions, you are left with nothing to defend. Your alternative is to minimalize anyone speaking out against the poor decisions made by the administration. Go ahead, call me a racist since I've given you so many examples of how a racist thinks.

Disgusted-in-PA

You cannot compare a natural disaster like Katrina with man-made, criminal negligence like with the BP Deepwater Horizon.

Oh, so now the obligations of the government change based on how a disaster happens. So with man made disasters, such as oil leaks, terrorist attacks, riots, illegal immigration and the like, the government can wash their hands of the situation and walk away and leave the correction of the problem to others. Interesting premise you have their Disgusted. Lets see how far it gets you.

gus_ty121
Safety, yes, but to stop the skimmers for 24 hours to do a life jacket check, that didn't get done anyway......love to hear your comments if it was your coastline being destroyed!!!!!

Hey, it is my coastline being destroyed...! I live in Mobile Alabama. Not only are our beaches oiled and our fishing industry down but we have oil in Mobile Bay. LA, MS and FL are our neighbors, just in case you don't know, and they are getting hit also.

I still say, make sure they have their safety gear. Safety is why 11 people are dead and the gulf is filled with oil!

What's the matter with you people??

M.Fisher

FEMA hasn't, up to this point, ever been outfitted to handle colossal oil spills. Sorry... Maybe now they will but the gov't has indeed brought ships and gear from other countries to help with the containment and clean up.

Certainly the expectations of FEMA have changed from when Bush ran it to now when Obama runs it. Recall that the Democrats, and the media, expected FEMA to be in New Orleans before Katrina hit and be the first responders to every type of calamity that happened afterwards. I agree with you that that is not what FEMA was designed to do, but that didn't stop the Democrats and the media from screeching about it. FEMA was designed to come in after a disaster occurred and support the local and state governments in their rebuilding efforts, mostly through funding low interest loans. During Katrina though, the Democrats and the media expected FEMA to stop the storm and plug the dikes. Ineeresting how that has changed from then to now, don't you think?

Brian

Refusing help from other countries is another. Suspending the Jones Act should have been the first thing done.

STOP LISTENING TO BECK!

To date, the administration has leveraged assets and skills from numerous foreign countries and international organizations as part of this historic, all-hands-on-deck response, including Canada, Germany, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, the United Nations' International Maritime Organization and the European Union's Monitoring and Information Centre. In some cases, offers of international assistance have been turned down because the offer didn't fit the needs of the response.

JoAnna

the Democrats and the media expected FEMA to stop the storm and plug the dikes. Ineeresting how that has changed from then to now, don't you think?

Regarding Katrina, I didn't ever get the impression that anyone wanted FEMA to "stop the storm and plug the dikes". Help the suffering, etc., yes.

I think that a 20 billion escrow from BP acquired for the gulf states by the president is a pretty good start to mitigating damages in the current oil spill crisis.

I will agree with you and have said on here often enough that more could have been done and more could be done, however, I have not reached the point of declaring that this is equal to or a greater presidential screw up as Katrina. I am directly effected by this spill disaster living in southern 'Bama and I remember Katrina also.

M. Fisher - Has Obama suspended the Jones Act? Has he? You do know what the Jones Act is all about, don't you? You do realize why it has to be suspended in order for clean-up operations to commence? Maybe the rule of law means nothing to you.

What does listening to Beck have to do with anything? This is your lame attempt at minimalizing my speaking out against the failure of Obama to act. You can try to defend him. You can try. The man is a complete failure in this disaster. He did NOT act. He sat on his hands and allowed the oil to creep towards the shorelines when his first priority should have been to order as many miles of containment barrier as he could have. A true leader would have done this FIRST! Protection of the coast is JOB 1. Threatening legal action and trying to figure out who's a$$ to kick should not be a priority until later.

Defend that! Defend Obama for not acting. I'm in construction. The first thing we have to do is protect the environment around a construction site. That's the FIRST thing!! Obama's first thing was to get all buttered up at a private concert with Paul McCartney. Defend that one. Defend the fact that he spends his weekends playing golf. Defend his sophomoric remarks about not being able to stop the leak himself and he can't suck it up with a straw. He's inedpt! He's incapable of doing the right thing because he is a far left ideologue. If you can't see it, it's because you are one too.

M.Fisher-you are so completely wrong as to be delusional. Offers of international assistance were turned down for one reason and one reason only:

Obama cannot afford to further tick off the unions. They don't want foreign ships with foreign crews cleaning things up. To hell with the coastline-they want their cut.

If you don't think that unions, not union members, but the organizations themselves, have got plans to get a cut of the $20billion, you are even more delusional than I thought. Their excuse will be that they will use the funds to benefit the membership-and they may even hand out some bags of generic groceries for a while-but that will be the extent of it.

While we're on the topic of the fund, Obama is lucky that Hayward was willing to give him the political gift. Obama had no authority under the law to demand it, and current law limits BP's liability to $75million. If Hayward had told him no, and challenged him to take them to court, BP would have been off the hook entirely, since they have already exceeded the amount for which they are liable.

Keep dreaming that he is perfection personified. You see cool under pressure? I see immobilized by the unexpected. Every time there is a crisis, I believe my interpretation more.

Brianb-999431

If a Republican were president more than likely there'd be no outcry from the right on government response. I'd doubt even if BP would be held to the standard of liabilty they are now. And the Republican Administration wouldnt have any answers as well. Because it would be terrible for them if they had answers but held out on them for political reasons. But that's all a big IF we will never know because we have the Democratically elected Obama Administration and we must deal with what is.

What is - There's an estimated 60,000 barrels of oil a day flowing into the Gulf.

What is - There's thousands of people harmed by this spill.

What is - You don't know how to stop it. So your complaints aren't beneficial to anyone but you.

What is - The Obama administration has to deal with this whether we agree or disagree on how, but again if you or I knew how to stop this leak it would have been done by now.

What is - Bobby Jindal was given 25 million dollars in BP aide very early in this crisis, what has he spent it on? How about some transparency there?

What is - Now there's a 20 billion day pot of money to assist people in the Gulf with LEGITIMATE CLAIMS not gold diggers trying to get something for nothing. Don't act like they are only liberals. Conservative scum and Liberal scum will try to profit from any disaster

What is - Most conservatives minimize thenselves by making outlandish comment and behave themselves badly. Its one thing that your constituents do and say dumb things they aren't paid to lead. But when the Leadership act like thugs and show they are willing to openly distort and go hyperbolic in their rhetoric toward national policies.

What is - A Conservative leader is calling for armed rebellion if they lose at the polls. (very troubling) If you can't trust Government when you take over and become Government what will make you trustworthy?

M Fisher - I live in LA, about 30 minutes from the coast.....shutting down vacuum barges for a 24 hour period to do a life jacket check, when every hour counts.......typical bureacracy!!!!! Not democratic or republican bureacracy...just downright bureacracy!!!!

ucg

I'll give you a few more what is's

What is - An environmental disaster waged against our shore lines

What is - Proven containment methods that were NOT initialized by The Department of Environmental Control. (and don't give me the line that no one knew the size and scope of this disaster)

What is - By not containing the surface oil early on, the slick was allowed to grow to monsterous proportions, spreading all through our shorelines from Louisiana to Florida.

What is - Early fingerpointing by this administration was used for political protection. Instead of taking decisive action against the problem they failed in their duty to protect our shorelines.

What is - If I were in charge the first thing I would have done is order up all the containment barrier that was available and request the emergency funding for it's installation in a 2 mile radius around the leak. It would have been the first line of protection for our coastline. Nothing like this was done and that is what is.

What is - Liberals and progressives are rallying to the defense of Obama. They are shouting down any attempt by conservatives to state the obvious... that Obama is a failure.

Brian,

Since we seem to be so fond of what is, try these facts:

What is - An environmental disaster the likes of which has never before been seen or dealt with being waged against our shores.

What also is - A case of criminal negligence and wreckless and wanton disregard for safety or the environment by a corporation with a storied history of similar criminal negligence.

What is - Proven containment methods were rendered useless by the wanton and unprecedented use of underwater dispersants in an attempt to prevent the VISIBLE signs of oil contaminated beaches, wetlands, and wildlife.

What is - By using the subsurface dispersants, there was no way to contain the oil on the surface and, instead, massive underwater "clouds" of atomized oil, gas, and chemical dispersants are simply floating wherever the currents take them, killing anything in their path. If you were so concerned about containment and in preventing this ecological disaster, you could have demanded more oversight BEFORE the incident. Instead, you are now crying about the President wanting to make SURE that the OTHER platforms all over the Gulf are safe.

What is - Nobody in the administration is pointing the finger at ANYONE other than BP (you know, the ones responsible for the criminally negligent decisions that DIRECTLY led to the explosion, deaths, and massive oil leak?). What we really have are a bunch of right wing apologists that are desperate to purge the bad taste of the Katrina debacle by attempting to push the responsibility for fixing BP's screw ups onto the President.

What is - If YOU were in charge, we would not have a problem in the world because we would still be madly pumping oil from all the other rigs in the Gulf that had the same pathetic cut and paste job done on their disaster plans. Oh, and let's not forget that you would have already caused me to be living in some other country and would be content to allow you (or allow companies like BP) to destroy as much of this country as you are willing to sacrifice to your almighty diety of profits. There is no political protection from the right wing sycophants like you that will vent your spleen into the wee hours of the night proclaiming this to be Obama's Katrina.

It is probably to much to be hopeful of, but I'll try anyway. I'm hopeful, as result of JoeBartons comment, which reflects the majority of the Republican representatives in the congress, the middle and lower-class people of the South will come to realize Republicans do not care about you. Moreover they have never cared about you. When will you get it! They do not care about any aspect of your well being. Barton's comment was not some slip of the tongue, this is what the Republicans truly believe. They have carried the water for not only BIG OIL, but for all corporate interests.

The Republican Party thrive when the American people are kept in fear of each other and divided by wedge issues. While we are auguring over abortion, guns, gays, race, political party, religion, etc. The real bandits are making west with the wealth and true freedom of this country. I have never understood, particularly those whites in the south, how you can be so duped by the people you continue to elect.

It amazes me you have great universities that produce some of the most intelligent, talented and gifted people in this country, but yet when it comes to your politics it is just mystifying. You hate government, yet the southern states receive more in government assistance than any other region of the country. Why, because it has the highest rate of poverty, the highest rate of obesity, highest rate of heart disease, ranked lowest in education, lowest in income, highest in infant mortality, etc. Yet perhaps because of heritage, which includes your racial attitudes, you just can not get over the fact you lost the Civil War. Therefore, you cling to a the Republican Party and its fascist ideology that is against your best interests overall.

The people of the South please wake-up and see the Republicans you religiously vote for, are simply using you for their individual/personal/corporate interest. They do not care about your interests. For example, when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency, NOT ONE OF THEM offered a bill in the Congress ("The Great Whorehouse") to overturn Rove v Wade. Why? I suspect they never will. Because if they can keep you thinking they will and keep you thinking the government is coming to get you in the middle of the night, or the government wants to take your guns, or the Blacks are the reason you do not have a job and they want your women, or gays are trying to push themselves upon you etc., YOU will stay stuck on "STUPID", and keep voting the way you've been and getting the same miserable results you have been getting. Finally, think of this, where would you or your parents/loved ones be if there was no Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid, etc. I suspect if the Republicans had there way, you would be up "sh**ts creek without a paddle". The Democrates

are the reason some of your sorry a**es are still living.

Disgusted-in-PA,

In several posts, you state there has been criminal negligence. Which federal statute was violated and by whom? Just curious since you are calling this criminal and not civil.

Not democratic or republican bureacracy...just downright bureacracy!!!!

I wont argue that the amount of time taken to verify safety gear is on board sux. Blaming the president? I'm not sure that is justified. I'm not sure of the source for this and I'm not saying it isn't true but I would love to read the rest of the piece.

NJNB

Obama cannot afford to further tick off the unions. They don't want foreign ships with foreign crews cleaning things up. To hell with the coastline-they want their cut.

Can you show me your sources on this? Where did you get this information besides out of your own head????!!

As I have said, the Obama administration has allowed ships, technology and people from several other nations to come in and help with the clean up. You're f'n delusional!

Chris - We get it. You hate republicans. You have been conditioned well. Pat yourself on the back. Consider yourself a graduate of Randi Rhodes school of "I hate all Republicans." Since this is your graduation day, we won't spoil it by mentioning all the wonderful things the Democrats have done to screw up our country. Enjoy your Gulf seafood platter this evening when you go out to celebrate.

Disgusted in PA -What is - is the fact that you are clinging on to a bunch of liberal talking points that do nothing to distinguish fact from fiction. The fact is, we have an administration that is so completely inexperienced and agenda driven, they failed to act up front by taking charge of the situation. Do not confuse this with taking over BP. Bad actions occured because there was NO leadership. They failed to follow the KISS method. They failed to think the problem through. The solution to the problem has been and always will have been *containment*. From day one it was containment. Now containment is too late. Our shores have been contaminated. There was no need to spray dispursing agents. There was never a need to try to break this up. I've been saying this since day one.

Would containment have been 100% effective? No. Some oil would have escaped, but never to the degree of destruction it is creating now. The oil would have been localized and pumping it out would have been 1000 times easier than having it spread all over the gulf. It would be a lot more managable. The problem would be much more controlled and the bunch in the White House wouldn't be scraping egg off their faces.

You think I am proud of the fact that Obama has royally screwed this up? I would much rather be saying "Good job Obama, you have earned a notch." Instead, I have to sit here and argue with the likes of you, who defend Obama for doing a piss poor job of protecting our country. Maybe you should examine YOUR loyalties. Are you for a loser president, or are you for this country? It seems you couldn't care less about the environment... defending Obama is a much more noble cause in your mind.

Pork and wasteful spending? How about a multi billion dollar giveaway to big pharma in the form of Medicare Part D? Yeah, that was a nice little unfunded mandate that gave away billions.

Hey, what about that little thing called Iraq? You remember, where we had spent over $700 billion dollars OFF THE BUDGET that was not funded. Remember that one?

How about the eight billion dollars that disappeared off of a pallet in Iraq under the viceroy or whatever the hell GWB called that idiot.

Where was the outcry when the Repugnant One controlled congress squandered a SURPLUS and left a TRILLION dollar DEFECIT?

Lastly, don't whine about the stimulus package or TARP. You remember, the package of 787 BILLION dollars that GWB begged to be given to his Wall Street boys under threat that they would collapse the entire world economy? Yeah, that's right. The same plan that Paulsen was asking for with a THREE PAGE handwritten document asking that NO RULES be imposed!

You people make me want to puke. It is only when YOU are not the ones calling the shots that you even feign to give a damn. Do us all a favor and go crawl back under your rock until Caribou Barbie calls for you.

Nice whack Disgusted! check-mate!

Disgusted, great response.

Disgusted – Great rebuttal – One more thing –> One-third of the stimulus was tax cuts.

Niiiiiice. As predicted, when faced with the truth of the failed pork-filled stimulus, which was the subject, the libbies run to their safe place: "but Bush.....(fill in the blank)." Just because Bush did something wrong doesn't make it OK for 0bama to do it ten times worse. NOT a valid rebuttal. The stimulus is STILL a failure.

KLM,

You threw up a straw man that was excoriated and burned to the ground. None of your issues is meaningful. At least with the "pork" that was in the stimulus, we actually got something to show for it at the end of the day. What did we get that was meaningful or lasting with what the Repugnant Ones did by raping the treasury.

Oh yeah, you are all butt hurt over deficit spending. That's right. How dare me bring up the fact that you and your cretin GOBPers took the surplus, pissed it away, turned big oil, big insurance, and Wall Street loose to feast on the treasury while you were all busy cashing dividend checks and selling off your derivatives while sending this country (and the world!) on a headlong course for depression. In the only possible chance to stave off the inevitable result of your GOBP drunken binge, Obama was forced to crank up the printing presses and save your sorry asses from your own uncontrolled greed so you could turn around and thumb your nose at the "small people" while awarding yourselves unjustifiable and unsustainable bonuses for driving the economy into a ditch.

Yeah, I am not really willing to sit here and listen to some brain dead cretin who cannot see the forest for the trees that HE PLANTED! God, when will the morons of the right wake up and realize that we are NOT the enemy and we simply want to ensure that this amazing country (and the earth it resides on) are able to be around for many more long and prosperous years. It is not all about death, destruction, world dominance, or winning at any cost...

Again, nice response Disgusted.

Wow....how do you get check mate twice in the same game? They never learn Disgusted. Keep up the nice work!

Disgusted:

OMG!

Your comments were great! Inciteful, informative, credible, with just the right amount of outrage.

I have those same feelings about the events of the past 18 months in general and the Gulf Crisis in particular. Some days I just want to scream at the TV because the Republicans are so ignorant.

Thanks for the support everyone. I just love how these people never learn and continually keep coming back to throw yet another tired and worn talking point (that has ALREADY been debunked) as if that will somehow make their blathering seem intelligent or anything other than banal.

Isn't the definition of insanity "doing the same thing repeatedly, while expecting a different result each time"? If it weren't for the fact that these people are serious and want to control government again, I would laugh myself silly. Never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Care to try your luck again KLM? Or have you had enough beat down for one day? Go visit Agent Orange and tune into Glenda. Maybe they have a new talking point for you to throw at us as yet another straw man to direct attention away from the ineptitude and blatant disregard for the American people that is so easily seen through in all of the GOBP these days...

Sheila, MD

I just want to scream at the TV because the Republicans are so ignorant.

Oh, Sheila, (that's a song I think) don't pardon them with the excuse of "ignorance". They are smart as foxes. It's their priorities that are so screwed up and the pub' from Texas certainly showed us that.

I hear what you're saying though. I just wanted to make that observation. :)

This money will become a slush fund. It will be used by politicians (both parties) to gain political advantage by giving it to friends and cronies. Afterall, look at the billions wasted from the stimulus and hurricane Katrina. Why anyone has faith that our politicians will do what is right is beyond me.

Disgusted you really are amazing in a superficial way. Facts would help. A clear understanding of the voting record on some of the bills you throw out would help. If you didn't get it, some of the Democrats voted for those bills. Most of the Democrats voted to go into Iraq, even though they don't mention it and they hope people will forget. It must work. You forgot. And the money off the books, Congress sets the budget. The president just signs it. Didn't the Democrats vote in favor of the budget? I believe the voting record, facts, always remember, facts, show they did. But be superficial. Throw out you stuff in a rant, but please use real facts world with a little history.

Gary,

Once again, you allow your delusional fanatacism to get the best of you. Yes, there were many Dems that voted to go into Iraq. This is a fact and I am not even attempting to dispute it. But, let's look at WHY they voted that way shall we? A) There was false intelligence that was cherry picked to eliminate ANY opinion that questioned the pre-existing premise. B) In addition to this manipulation of the date (yes, supposedly the whole world was fleeced, yet the English knew better) there was the lovely and uber patriotic propensity of anyone on the right to chant "Traitor", "Terrorist", and a slew of other ridiculous epithets at anyone that dared to question the wisdom or decisions of the "Great Decider". In that environment, many Dems felt that they had no choice but to fall in line and go for the ride.

Yes, money off the books. In case you have forgotten, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were NEVER budgeted for in the GWB WH. Those funds were always requested as supplemental emergency spending so that the BILLIONS that were being re-directed to these efforts would NOT draw attention to the budget and did NOT receive the same scrutiny. It also shielded GWB from having to admit that the Repugnant Ones were printing more money than the Dems have EVER spent money WE DID NOT HAVE! Go back and look at all the budgets submitted by Bush & Co. and let me know how much of the war effort BILLIONS are reflected in the budgets submitted.

So, as you say Gary, remember the FACTS! You are entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts. It is a shame that you and the Repugnant ones never seem to be able to grasp what is a rather important conceptually sound principle. It is called Truth. You people should become re-acquainted with it. If any of you actually DID bother to search for the truth, you might be surprised at who is REALLY on your side and who has been working for decades to get you to vote against your own interests.

BTW where would Hillary have gotten her information? You think, maybe Bill said something? If the information Bush provided was bad, she would have known. Why didn't she object? And those on the intelligencecommittee, they would have known the truth. Why didn't they object? If they knew the info was bad they had a moral obligation to object. Why didn't members from the Clinton administration object? Why didn't Clinton's secretary of defense object? Did the head of the CIA under Clinton object? Did Bill Clinton object? Why, during the late nineties did Bill mobilize part of the army, and send them to Saudi Arabia and Germany in pre invasion positioning?

Gary,

Take your lips off the exhaust pipe of Glenda & Co. You sound like a deluded maniac desperately trying to hit a fact as you spray wildly around the target.

Do you think that Bush & Co. were circulating memos identifying their game of deceit and manipulation? No, they were spewing the cherry picked info and did not bother to mention that there were entire sections of the reporting that were critical of the facts allowed to stay. People purposefully mis-represented and lied about their position. Do I blame Hillary? Yes, I do but not for the reasons you likely think. I blame Hillary for being a lemming and not having the courage to stand up for something she knew was right. Like Bill, she made a cold political calculation that, since Obama had already pretty well staked out and defined an anti-war position, she felt she had no choice but to eagerly embrace the war and become a chicken hawk. It was a gutless move that I believe ultimately led to her defeat as people saw she would that easily sell out her own belief system for the sake of power.

As for the relationships with the Saudis, do you REALLY want to go there? It is no secret the love shared between the Bushes and the Saudi royal family. After all, on 9/11, who made sure that ALL of Bin Laden's remaining SAUDI relatives were given safe passage out of the U.S. when ALL other air traffic was suspended? Yeah, that was not Bill & Hill.

Care to try again Gary? See? Those pesky little things called facts tend to trip you up all the time. You should really try to discern what the truth looks like again. I think it has been way too long since the two of you were acquainted with each other...

Gary-302710

Please run you timeline when you make theses statements where the answers are so obvious that they should be on are you smarter than a 5th grader.

1. Where would Hillary have gotten her information - as a Senator from the same intelligence that Bush gave all other members of congress.

2. Where were you during the run up to the Iraq War. 9/11 had a nation stirred up for revenge against percieved terrorist that were supposedly hiding in Iraq.

3. Weapons of Mass destruction was the mantra of the day. The fear of Sadam giving the nuclear option to terrorist. where did this idea come from. The faulty Intelliegence from the current administration at that time. Dont wanna blame Bush but you know who was running things.

4. The security report given during the transition was "Bin Laden determined to strike US". which wasn't take seriously by which administration? thats right it was the ...Clinton's (not)

5. Why didn't Clinton's secretary of defense object? The same reason we aren't hearing from Codelessa Rice-- she has no voice.

6. Plus any opposition to government during that time was considered unpatriotic but for conservatives it's a constituional right to oppose government except when there's a war going on. I'm so glad we are at peace time now.

KLM

"the libbies run to their safe place: "but Bush.....(fill in the blank)."

The issue is not that Bush did these things, the issue is, where were you when he was doing them? Why whine about your perception that Obama is decimating the Constitution when you had nothing to say when Bush was actually decimating the Constitution? Why are you protesting Obama's spending, but silent on Bush's? You would have a lot more credibility that you are standing up for America if you had stood up for it when Bush was damaging it, too. We are not continuously blaming Bush, we are just incredulous that it was okay with you when Bush actually did things that you are now threatening violence because you think Obama is doing them, and we have yet to hear any justification for that (other than that it is NOT about race!).

you know why he has to keep selling the stimulas?because your repulican leaders have a problem with telling you the truth.see they just keep spewing lies so they can keep you stupid and from what i can tell it works.

Nobody gets it: No one voted for Greene as much as voted against the other choice! ANTI ENCUMBENT.

Of course they would never overturn this election. They didn't fight Bush so they couldn't here, and none of them want to check voting machines or the corruption of election officials. I am one that realized when Bush regime criminally was enthroned and my party did nothing it was because they were just as corrupt. I am now Independent, no longer Democrat as a result. You cannot negate my vote and expect me to stay loyal to you. My party should have fought for me.

Sorry, LD. There was no incumbent Democrat in the South Carolina Democratic primary. The incumbent South Carolina Senator is Republican Jim DeMint. He would have been on the Republican ballot.

The reason he has to sell the stimulus is that the those who are against it keep making up lies to counter it's effectiveness. There has been constant road work here in Colorado that is only happening because of TARP funds. I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm one of those middle class taxpayers that welcomed the tax cuts, yes, I said TAX CUTS, that came along with the stimulus.

There is NO doubt in my mind that if McCain were president he would have done the exact same thing and it would have been received by those who are against as the process that saved the country from a depression, which is exactly what it did.

It is so wrong in my eyes to oppose something that is actually good for the country, just because YOUR party didn't get it done. That reeks of hypocrisy and to me, is the epitome of being unpatriotic.

Steven, Highlands Ranch, CO

It is so wrong in my eyes to oppose something that is actually good for the country, just because YOUR party didn't get it done. That reeks of hypocrisy and to me, is the epitome of being unpatriotic.

First, thanks for the measured response. Most others around here think personal insults are valid debating points.

There is no doubt "things" happened because of the nearly $1 trillion dollar stimulus bill. You spend that amount of money, and something should happen. But the primary objective of the stimulus, to prime the pump for private industries, has failed. Jobs, private sector jobs, have not been generated by the stimulus money. The belief that "trickle up" using Keynesian economic theories has failed. So now we have high unemployment and record deficits to go along with it. The worst of both worlds.

JoAnnSmith, your just plain nuts.

JoAnn Smith writes: Because it has failed so badly. Obama has to spin the stimulus as a success, when in fact it has been a total failure. There were "saved" jobs from the stimulus, government jobs, saved by Obama and the Democrats at the expense of creating record deficits. Now that the money has run out, states like New York, California, and Illinois are having to fire thousands of state workers because they just cannot generate enough tax revenue to pay for them. It's just like Obama spinning that he got $20 billion from BP, when in fact BP has stated they will pay for the problem they created since Day 1. And while Obama is walking around with that puffed out skinny chest of his, the oil continues to spew from the well and Obama has no clue on how to help in the recovery and clean up of that oil.

California's problems are because California Republican's refuse to increase taxes. Like Bush, our Govenor chose partisanship to fiscal responsibility.

Why is it you turn to personal attack of Obama when you have not facts to fight with? What does his chest, skinny or not, have to do with anything? And do you have a clue of how to help in the recovery or clean up of that oil? Did you or your ilk secure adequate funds so when BP decides to rescind it's pledge or conveniently develops amnesia (Tony Hayward exampled that yesterday) monies will be there. Do you have anything constructive to say?

JoAnnaSmith

But the primary objective of the stimulus, to prime the pump for private industries, has failed. Jobs, private sector jobs, have not been generated by the stimulus money. The belief that "trickle up" using Keynesian economic theories has failed. So now we have high unemployment and record deficits to go along with it. The worst of both worlds.

I have to disagree with you. All of the stumulus funds haven't been spent yet... maybe half I'm not sure on the number, but I know a third of the stimulus money was in tax cuts. You can't call something a failure if it hasn't run it's course.

Granted, up until this time I don't think it has been managed as well as it could have been and while flattening the job losses, it hasn't created too many, I still think we should reserve opinion on it being a failure or not as far as job creation until the measure has run it's course.

President Obama did say when it passed that we wouldn't see significant job growth until late 2010 - 2011. He has that leeway with me since he was up front about it.

It galls me that some miss the point that even with the stimulus assist, THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS NOT CREATED JOBS, when some declare that the government should leave that process to the private sector outright. Talk about failure. I'm sure fat cats aren't feeling it like "little people". I suspect many are just interested in positioning themselves to rake in more dough NO MATTER WHAT.

In the above segment, with the exception of Mo, I'm encouraged that there's discussion going on, not a bunch of accusations.

LD - California's problems are not specifically because Republicans won't increase taxes. We have had over the last several years, multi-billion shortfalls in our budgets that we paper over with borrowings, accounting gimmicks, and, lets be honest, chicanery. Raising taxes to continue to fund growth in the public sector eventually leads to bankruptcy, and California is teetering. It may very well be that we should have raised taxes, however, we didn't, which means that we should have cut some form of spending, we didn't do that either, and the deficit is the end result. Don't ask me to tell you what should have been cut, I don't know, but thankfully, I'm not responsible for the budget, that falls to the Assembly, and the Senate.

Steven - You're correct, a great deal of the stimulus money hasn't been spent yet, and we can still hope for some job growth there. Unfortunately, a great deal of the money was spent to extend unemployment benefits, and to support state (public sector) employment. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in favor of eliminating unemployment benefits, and I'm not advocating eliminating teachers, law enforcement, fire departments etc. What I am in favor of would have been what you indicate is happening in Colorado, using the TARP funds to pay for roads, water systems, public transportation etc are also uses which would have created jobs, and improved the state/local revenue base.

Kedbob - Fund the programs (remember shovel ready) that create jobs (road rehabilitation would be good here in California), and the private sector will find a way to spend the money, and provide jobs for (hopefully) a great many that are currently unemployed. People have to feel that there is a steady job ahead of them before they'll part with cash. Unemployment benefits give you some money, but a job gives you money and pride.

JoAnne

Most others around here think personal insults are valid debating points.

And while Obama is walking around with that puffed out skinny chest of his,

Dumn azz... You are a hypocrite aren't you...? Don't bother answering. We already know the answer.

the oil continues to spew from the well and Obama has no clue on how to help in the recovery and clean up of that oil.

Sure, he could have done more but 20 billion in escrow is nothing to be sneezed at. You are blinded by your hatred of the president. Face the fact. Bush sucked as president. The sooner you can accept that reality the sooner you begin moving towards being unbiased.

Hey Steven, Highlands Ranch - yeah you've got a few nutcase skeletons in your state's closet but so do all states. Be thankful you're not from south carolina, texas, kentucky, nevada or even here from California where Birther Queen Whorely Taitz tried to run for Secretary of State but got crushed in the primary. I'm just glad that there are many sane people like you and me in our states and let's work hard to throw out the rightwing trash in our states.

I was born in California and lived there 35 years, I'm well aware of the whack jobs there. If I lived in Texas it would be in an insane asylum. *chuckle*

Add Scott McInnis to that list Steven.

8 years of Bush will have prepared us perfectly if this guy gets in to the Governor's mansion.

PS. Hello from Golden!

OH YES I forgot about McInnis!! I think Hickenlooper is going to mop the floor with him in the GE. If not I may move :)

*waves back*

Once again . . . nothing but silence from the MSNBC crew on this very basic question. I guess if the truth hurts, don't print it, right?

I will keep being a faithful reader but . . . I wish you folks would answer this question & put this matter to rest. Thanks & a good weekend to all.

I've been noticing that too. On Fox they prefer to call him "this guy. It's just blatant disrespect for our president. Like they are just too full of hate to even bring themselves to say the words. But it's not just a personal insult toward President Obama. It is a show of disrespect for the office of the presidency, and for the country.

I'd like to hear their real answer to this question, but I'm sure they will just try to trivialize it and say their freedom of speech is being threatened. Oh, and they might need to call for some "second amendment remedies"

Bill Thank you for putting out a right leaning post this morning that at least makes sense. I don't agree with you on the bail-outs being over reach part. Here's some of why. Just as the financial markets were sold as to big to fail there are certain industries that have reached the point that due to national security and economic interests are to big to be allowed to fail. G.M would be one of them. If the economy would not have been in such dire straits at the time allowing them to file bankruptcy and be reorganized and thus emerging as a viable organization would have been alright but the economy just was not in any position at that time to absorb that hit.

WOW, Bill. It looks like you have come around after all. Although your argument that the BP 'intervention' was justified and the GM/Chrysler 'intervention' was not, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. yes, they are both fruit, but they are DIFFERENT in taste, size, and nutritional content.

Saying that GM/Chrysler should have been left to 'free market devices' is fine, but in this case, GM/Chrysler are two of the LAST huge manufacturing companies left in the US. Everything else has been outsourced to China (we can argue this point ad nauseum later). To let these two HUGE manufacturing concerns collapse would have created a devistating ripple effect in our economy. Hence, the apples in our example. I also believe there was a 50-50 chance that President Obama was going to let them fail, especially when the heads of the companies jetted in on their private jets with their hands out asking for BILLIONS. I personally would have let them fail because the company heads were/are arrogant jerks, but the President looked past the obvious and decided that helping these idiots would be in the best interest of the country.

You correctly surmised that BP should have been held accountable for their actions and that the Government was correct in their intervention in this saga. The mere fact that BP MAY go out of business if things continue to progress badly is something that needs to be seen. These are the oranges in our example.

Now, if you blend the two actions, you can see there is a BALANCE that the Government is FINALLY attaining when dealing with business entities. Yes, the 'enforcement' arm should be there to make the companies behave. Yes, the 'compassionate' arm should be there when a company needs help. Attaining that balance is the skill that President Obama seems to have mastered.

On another note, I am having an IPO for my Left-Handed Mouse Company, and YES, I am still viable - especially since there are more LEFTies in this marketplace than you think.

Care to INVEST on the LEFT side...?

Hi Bill . . . if you get a chance, mosey on over to my post in the topic just below this one . . . it explains why I really can't get behind your hair splitting logic above.

But I will briefly say that if the government require citizens to by private health insurance from private companies is not a "market solution", then I guess I don't know what that phrase even means.

And I will also say that why must we wait for BP to destroy the Gulf of Mexico before you concede that maybe, just maybe the government has a role to play?

Talk about a day late and a dollar short.

And finally, if the collapse io our financial markets, job markets, and real estate markets SIMULTANEOUSLY is not a time for "government intervention", then why have a government at all?

Are your really advocating continuously letting the free market run wild, and then letting the government foot the bill for cleaning up the mess they made as a governing strategy?

Really?

Isn't that privitizing the profits and socializing the bill for the clean up?

This same article kept refering to our President as Mr. Obama.

Pietro – OK, don't go getting all warm cuddly with me, I have no intention of moving to your end of the spectrum anytime soon. Just trying to make a case for a government role in the BP situation.

On GM and Chrysler, those companies made cars that lots of folks chose not to buy and they had been losing market share for years. That's their issue, not a taxpayer issue. Under normal circumstances they may have been able to muddle through and possibly turn things around. But when the economic meltdown came and demand for new cars plummeted, they did not have the financial wherewithal to survive. So let them go under because there is no role for government in deciding what products to make or not to make and therefore no role for government in deciding what companies should survive and what companies should fail. Any deviation from that principle moves us closer to a Soviet style central planning system.

I've posted previously there were broader policy issues involved in this case, namely did we want to throw thousands of folks out of work in a region of the country already hard hit by the economic downturn. That's a legitimate consideration and it's fair for national policy makers to incorporate that concern into their decision making process. But that's a political choice not an economic choice, and saving the jobs of Obama's union buds is a completely different issue than saving a company that had demonstrably failed. So saving those companies was a consideration to the regional economy in general and the unions in particular, but not to the overall economic efficiency of the car industry. If you want to see the face of automotive success, then look at Ford. Compassion has no place in this game. Either we build better cars than the other guy, or the other guy eats our lunch. And propping up GM so they could live to fight another day just distorts that fundamental economic dynamic.

As to investing in your LEFT hand mouse company, I might take a flyer with some mad money. But when we privatize Social Security you can bet I won't be touching that stock with a ten foot pole. The risk of that puppy going to zero is just too big.

Nash – ya know I luv ya, truly I do. But you do have a tendency to take liberties with my comments. I said I supported the President's RECENT strong arm tactics with BP. And how long did it take him to get around to putting the squeeze on these guys? Fifty plus days by my count. So if anyone is 'a day late and a dollar short' in this matter it's the President.

As for your pointing to government requiring citizens to buy private health insurance as an example of a market solution, I beg to differ. Under HCR, private insurance companies (at least the ones that will be able to stay in business) are merely extensions of the government. Their business will be so highly regulated (see the stories about the draft regs HHS issued last week) that calling them a 'business' may be a stretch. An example of the kind of market solution I had in mind would be reforms that promoted competition between health insurance companies as a means to control costs. I still don't quite understand why the Dems didn't make that a key feature of HCR, especially since HCR is pretty light on the cost control issue.

Finally, I did try and mosey over to your post but saw where you said it disappeared. Ya gotta get with the program Nash, if an old guy like me can figure out this new format you can too. Of course, I can barely read the stuff. The rocket scientist who picked gray as the default text color should be forced to read War and Peace on this board.

IRV – thanks for reading. I acknowledge your point, but we'll just have to agreeably disagree on this issue.

lol

Bill, actually the post is still there . . . I was just looking under the wrong topic . . . what can I say . . . I'm getting old!

Check it out if ya get a chance . . .

P.S. So you don't think regulating health insurance companies is a good idea either? Wanna stick with the old "oil spill" model eh . . . wait until it's just UNBEARABLY BAD, then act. I dunno Bill, for some reason that plan just doesn't bring me alot of comfort!

Well said LDBean - I sure wish that the whole MSNBC team would get off the pablum passed on by the Lame Mainstream Media which now values ratings more than truth. No wonder Jon Stewart is the most trusted name in news, he always dares to show us the ugly truth that the Lamestream media avoids and his ratings are through the roof as his audience is the most sophisticated news junkies in the world. I can't stand the nagging hags of MSNBC tv's morning shows and wait until Dylan Ratigan comes on before it becomes tolerable, then have to skip past SissyChris who has gone off the tea bagging deepend to catch Big Ed Schultz and then Keith and Rachel. I agree Keith and Rachel have drank the Lamestream Media's tea about ratings as they were absolutely disgusting the other night trashing Obama's Oval Office Speech.

I hope that the Awesome First Read crew will do more original thinking and stop copying what the Lamestream media whines about. Try emulating Jon Stewart and try showing us stuff we won't see in the Lamestream media. The First Read Crew sometimes dares to get off the Lamestream media's message but not nearly often enough. I think that Chuck, Mark, Domenico and Ali have it in them to do better and I hope they spend more time keeping tabs on what Jon Stewart, Bill Maher and Stephen Colbert are saying and relaying it here. Never forget First Read crew if the repugnant ones win your jobs are toast as they will do everything in their power to turn you into another pathetic copy of Fox and Freaks, namely do you want to become the next CNN (Fox Lite)?

Please Awesome First Read crew please pass along all of the many whines from loyal MSNBC fans here to the powers that be at MSNBC tv, they need to know they are losing us loyal Liberal viewers because MSNBC tv has become the new Neville Chamberlains appeasing the Adolf Hitler crowd of Fox and Freaks Beckerheads. MSNBC tv is not going to gain a whole new following of rightwing lamebrains, they're stuck in Fox and Freaks Neo-Nazi FairyTale Land and are irredeemably compromised by their abject stupidity. MSNBC tv needs to clear out some of those nagging hags and the Mourning Jerky Joe in the morning and bring back someone like David Shuster who had the gall to challenge lying rightwingers. MSNBC tv also has to stop bringing on the lying rightwing politicians as we Liberals just switch channels when they're on, if we wanted to watch these radical subversive conservative liars we'd watch CNN or Fox and Freaks.

MSNBC tv Dare to be The Liberal Lion of the Lamestream Media!

Very Well Said LD: I long for Tim Russert, Walter Cronkite, Brinkley, Huntley. Murrow (yes, I go back that far). But there is a big void in the journalism worlkd

Very Very True. I liked Keith and Racheal but I listed them as MIA over the past several weeks. Basically they were jumping on the media wagon. Yesterday was the first time I saw some of the old. I fear you are right and journalism may become a thing of the past. I too am scared of the alternative. Too Bad. I am going to hope for the best or a little while anyway.

Thanks for the chat.

Well said.

There is a time and place for government intervention in the private world. The financial collapse of 2008 had far reaching consequences--GM, Ford, Chrysler, John Deere, and every other manufacturer was harmed greatly.

Ideology alone cannot protect people when the country is teetering on the brink of a second Great Depression. Republicans fail to acknowledge that saving GM in 2009 was critical; tell the millions of affected workers that the auto bailout was not needed. If the financial collapse had not happened and further damaged a faltering industry, Pres Obama would not have taken the steps he did. Republicans ignore that even Cheney said we could not allow GM to crash and burn during such an economic crisis--that it would result in Hoovervilles everywhere.

I would say that government's intervention with GM in this instance proved to be beneficial for the company and for the country.

If things are going so well, then what is the plan to privatize GM? Currently, just like with all of Obama's other schemes, there isn't a plan. What are GMs sales numbers? No one knows, because they don't have to report them because they are not a publicly traded company. What has GM done to reorganize so that when they do go private again they will not suffer the same fate they did before Obama purchased them? The main issues GM went bankrupt was that they had a higher payroll then other automakers and they had to support the generous benefits the unions had negotiated for their workers and their retirees. Have those issues been solved? Again, no one knows because GM is government owned and run, and does not need to report such things. And how much is the government subsidzing GM? Just how much deficit spending is being done by the US government to keep GM going? Again, no one knows.

Maybe when Congress is done with their show trials of BP they can get someone from the Obama administration to answer these questions.

JoAnna Smith: Are you nuts? Stop listening to the media division of the right wing. Get a clue. Republican policies brought us to the brink.

Jody, Iowa

Reagan's words: I've deregulated the oil industry so we can achieve energy independence. Mine: Are we there yet?

Jimmy Carter spent $50 billion on so called green energy, froze oil imports to the US at 1976 levels, and said we would have 20% of energy coming from solar panels by the year 2000. Are we there yet?

Liberals have been ranting for 50 years about green energy, and yet with as liberal president and congress we will ever see, they have no solution or path to achieving that goal. Face the facts libs, green energy is nothing but a dream today, the green technology just does not exist to meet the energy demands of the US or the world., and all the legislation in the world won't make it happen.

Hey Jody - excellent point! Did you see Jon Stewart the other night showing the past 8 presidents trying to get sensible energy reform done that would get us off foreign oil? Ever since 1974 when Tricky Dick Nixon first proposed energy independence we have seen Congress fail to do anything for 36 years because the repugnant ones and too many conservative Democrats are bought off by big oil and big coal to make sure that doesn't happen. The dopes of nope are prolific at whining about needing to get off our foreign oil addiction yet they do nothing to see that happens.

Dopes of Nope Stop Whining about Oil Independence and Start Doing Something to Make it Happen!

You missed the point. I said EVERY president and candidate have promised this; I used Reagan's words because of his focus on deregulation of oil industry. Are we there yet? Until we stop fighting about it and work together putting aside partisan politics, arguing about global warming manmade or natural, and sticking our heads in the sand--we cannot get there. As for Carter's investments in solar and his government incentives for private industry, they were cancelled and dismantled by Reagan who thought it was nonsense and who believed deregulation of oil would solve the energy problem.

Eric, thanks. Glad someone understood my point. I didn't see Jon Stewart but I saw a bunch of clips for every president and candidate since Carter. Stewart's, no doubt was more entertaining.

Jody your an ace. I know of an army of unemployed workers right now that would love to go to work retrofitting homes and offices with upgraded energy efficient products that would pay a lot of dividends for the foreseeable future but the argument seems to be mired in the same old rut that it has been in for the last thirty or forty years. Yeh Reagan was going to solve everything with deregulation but looking at the aftermath it looks like to me all he did was right a blank check that the deregulators can't cover. Now that crowd wants We the people cover the bill and quit asking questions for which they have no answers.

By the way Jody don't pay much attention to JoAnna she's just trying to raise herself up in the point standings so she can get Driver of the year award on the Cheerio Go-Kart circut

Jody - excellent post!

I've read a ton of great articles, in Scientific Am and other periodicals, by scientists working on alternative energies. They all seem to come to the same conclusion. The technologies are there. But where is the political will to actually make it happen? ?We have it at the top (President Obama) and we have it at the bottom (the rest of us).....it's the middle (politicians) that seems to be the problem.

To everyone...you need to vote with this is mind...and..you need to get everyone around you to vote as well.

Larry quit lying about being a supporter of President Obama, we all know your a wing-nut. That's why he's driving you crazy. If you would just pay attension instead of listening to what Fox tells you, you could see all the things President Obama is making happen. So just crawl back into your teabagging hole with Fox.

Why don't you plug the leak--obviously, you've got plenty of mud and high pressure air for the job.

Isn't that private enterprise's job? Oh, they are incompetent? Like you?

I might have to plug the leak, since Obooboo does'nt know where to begin, maybe if he proposes government takeover of the oil industry the left wing lunatics he surrounds himself with will get a clue.........but I doubt it.......

News flash Dude... That was DAYS ago. Keith and Rachel have thrown off their GOBP induced stupor and are back on their game. You can't do any better than recycling old news to defend your boy Barton? Come on, let's see some more tears for all the terrible treatment BP is getting in the press these days. I feel so bad for Tony. Maybe someone can take him out for a nice shrimp bake to take his mind off his problems. Oh, that's right... BP destroyed the seafood industry. Maybe we can take up a collection and help to repay the $20 billion that BP is funding. Please send the first request to Representative Barton...

I didn't say a damn thing about Barton or BP you idiot. Did the comment go over your head? Get back to the mutual flagellation of your First Read counterparts jerk off.

Sorry to wake you out of your Lintball coma Dude, but YOU made a reference to something that was days ago. If you really want to be taken seriously, try reading TODAY's headlines and then see if you can coax a coherent thought out of your remaining brain cell before posting again...

I have no problem with Keith, Rachel and friends making a critical assessment of Pres Obama's message, saying what they would like to have heard or when they disagree on issues but Tuesday's night's feeding frenzy was unjustified and just mean and nasty; to be honest they sounded as crazy as Glenn Beck. Rachel continued Wed with what I'm sure she thought would be "funny" but instead was lame and petty. Finally, last night both returned to earth. I don't want either to stop pointing out their differences with Pres Obama or whoever but I do expect that on MSNBC, it at least be done respectfully. I saw none of that in Tuesday's post-speech analysis--I saw a childish, spoiled, "didn't hear what I wanted" meanness in their comments from people I respect and who should know better.

I'm referring to previous comments made in this thread, TODAY ass clown. You proved my point with the statement about Olbermann and Maddow being back on their game. Demand objective journalism from all or STFU when it doesn't suit your views.

Oh and Jody, did you hold Keith and Rachel to the same standard when Bush was president?

Um . . . "dude" . . . is your vocab not big enough to avoid call folks you don't even know "ass clown"?

I mean HOT DAMN, are you here to share your thoughts or punish us all because you aren't getting your BP dividend check this quarter?

Good grief.

The insults started from one of your mutual flagellators. I mean HOT DAMN are you at least going to give him a reach around?

Oh, I see the problem . . . your thought process never gets above your waist!

lol

Good one Nashville....you got me.

Tha' idiot-Dude

Fox claims to be Fair and Balanced, i.e. un-biased. Even you admit that Fox has a bias, so their slogan is a lie. Keith and Rachel have a slanted view of what FACTS need to be brought into the discussion. When they make a factual error, they are the first ones to try to make a factual correction. Faux News only makes a correction after days of people pointing out their error, usually Jon Stewart has to get involved before this supposedly "FAIR and BALANCED" News outlet will admit to a mistake and make a weasly "correction".

Paul Douchebag 977599,

Thanks for the analysis. Take a break from flagellating and reread the post. I was not defending Foxnews. So what if they claim they are fair and balanced. I could claim I'm the pope and I'm not. The point is all other media outlets are slanted to the left and it kills me when hypocrites such as yourself whine about a slant that doesn't favor your views. MSLSD is so over the top left, and you don't seem to mind it when it suits you. I wish all news was objective. But I don't think you do.

I was thinking the same thing Eric. But for that poor nitwit KLM, they seem to be in short supply today. I think the echo chamber is still struggling with a way to twist Barton's words and somehow attribute them to Obama and uncover the vast liberal conspiracy to bring down Big Oil...

Don't get to comfortable guys, their just waiting for Limbaugh and fox to tell them how to respond to Joe Barton, they'll be back on Monday to explain what Barton really meant.

Eric,

As sad as it is to say this, I knew that CA was in deep kimchee as soon as they elected the Governator. I mean, he is the terminator right? He terminated CA's ability to function as a state and a viable entity. Kind of like Bush & Co. tried to do but fell just short on a national level.

And Obama is finishing it off for him! Doing a real good job.........