Doesn't BO ever stay in DC and do some work for us, his employers?

If this HCR is so good why is he still trying to sell it? This almost senior (15 months to medicare) doesn't want his "fix". I want real HCR.

Unlike Bush President Obama can multitask. He's still having to sell it because of all of the lies that the GOP spread last year about what the legislation will do. Now some of those same opponents are trying to claim that they helped pass the legislation to their underinformed constituients back home. Liars!!!!

The health care take-over bill is the face of a love child that only the parents (congress and Obama) could love. This thing, (Nancy Pelosi's own words), is butt ugly and no amount of slick sales talk will make it look better. The bailouts, failed stimulus, health care debacle, golf spill inaction, immigration inaction, and proposed draconian environmental laws being proposed are all in opposition to what the majority of Americans want and will be a gigantic boat anchor around the necks of democratic candidates this fall.

And Chris, since this bill was passed, the CBO has done a 180 and now say the bill will drive up medical costs as well as the deficit. If would be hard for this bill to be any worse.

Interesting as Politico.com has 2 articles today about the HC bill and the challenges it will bring. The fact that it is bad for businesses but the main one is the number of people in hospitality positions and small retail who have a smaller type of plan due to the cost. These people will be losing their coverage due to this.

This information campaign would not be necessary had the Republicans not gone on a misinformation tirade over the past year ...... death panels, lies about costs, etc. The fact is that most seniors do not know that the "donut hole" was plugged .... just one of the many improvements to senior health care.

Chris: Yep, Obama can multitask alright. He can lie about health care, lie about the gulf oil spill, lie about the middle east, lie about the stimulus plan, lie about the economy, lie about everything else. I suppose if you break down the lying, then, yeah, being able to lie about so many things is multitasking. The repubs told the truth about health care.

Well, maybe you are right after all. The economy is buzzing along, he has solved the oil leak (which he has been on in charge of since day one, the world loves us and is now a more peaceful place because of our beloved president, everyone listens to the president and he has brought everyone together, there is no more racial discord because the white cops in Cambridge have been put in their place and they are no longer bigoted. Yep. Things are all turning up roses now. He did slip in his speech though, he forgot to tell the seniors that they can have a pill.

This HC Bill is BAD! The Dems knew it; Obama knew it. It's all part of the plan to gain power and a centralized financial system and once that happens...well, we're into communisim. Don't forget, within this bill is also the student loans so that's another part of the economy the feds have ripped off. From FDR w/SS to LBJ w/medicare etc..the Dems put us into debt. I want Obama OUT of my Whitehouse and prefer him OUT of my COUNTRY.

SURE BO, we have already forgotten about the 460 billion damned dollars you cut out of medicare.

We'll be around you inept liar.

Interesting that Obama has time for golf, basketball, concerts, and still trying to sell his socialist programs, but very lttle time to do what we pay him for.

He should forego his salary; he is not earning it

Chris Gilliard,

You are so right about ObamaNation being able to mult-task...He can play basketball...He can golf...He can attend concerts...He can take Michelle to NY for a show...etc...He just can't do his job...That community organizing experience just isn't paying off...Executive experience would have helped him out a lot more, but running a senate office, and community organizing voters, isn't helping him out at all...This is what you Liberals get for electing a American Idol President !!!!!!!!!!!

And yet he's lapping the previous village idiot. You must just be angry at ALL Presidents (current and previous). I mean have you run the numbers on how much VACATION that prior nimrod took? Stunning, truly stunning.

Wait till they see what services are being cut and see if this $250 carrot will make up for it!!!!

obama speaks with a forked tongue and stands there and lies with a straight face while he has thrown the seniors of this country under the bus for his socialist health care agenda,Anyone with half a brain can figure out for them self that you can't cut billions from medicare and receive the care our seniors need.

"This new law gives seniors and their families greater savings, better benefits and higher quality health care," he told the audience gathered at a senior center in Wheaton, MD. "The guaranteed Medicare benefits that you've earned will not change regardless of whether you receive them through Medicare or Medicare Advantage. Your guaranteed benefits will not change; eligibility won't change; Medicare will continue to cover your costs the way it always has; if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor."

What Obama doesn't say is that the Advantage program will be phased out soon, Medicare payments will be reduced by $500 Billion to pay for free care for his "reform" bill, and that your doctor may stop accepting Medicare because they lose money on each visit.

NBC is just a mouthpiece for the Administration, not a REAL news agency.

All the adminstrations since FDR have not cared for the senior. Every President, even Reagan< failed to invest the government required (like the great socialist Obama's socialized medicine) retirement insurance annuity premium in a manner that would return to the senior on retirement. There is 0$ in the fund the worker is required to invest into, there has never been dollar 1 invested, just borrowed to the general fund. If we had been allowed to put into a simple bank savings every senior would not be worried about retirement. However, the Government has failed its legal requirement and if they were not the government a federal arrest warrent would have been issued for theft of investment funds. Failure of fiducary duties has caused the Social Security crisis, not the aging generation! Retirement funds are not an entitlement, it is a policy payment for insurance bought and paid for by the worker and stolen by Congress and the President since FDR. Lets use the RICO act to get the funding returned to the retirement fund all Americans are forced to pay into. seize the assets of the government officials that failed their duty to the American worker.

Oh yeah he cares 460 billions worth.

Wasn't the far right, that cut 460 billion out of medicre.

talk all the bs you like, we'll rmind the inept liar in the white house about the 460 billion he cut from medicare.

Fancy:

The health care debate is far from over. Obama and the Dems are going to have to continue doing quite a bit of educating regarding the provisions of this bill before the majority of the major changes are implemented. It was less than a week after the bill passed when those looking to make a quick buck were on TV advertising these false and cheap health care cards that do nothing for a person, but are being represented by these people as actual health care insurance plans which they are not. I wonder how many seniors have already bought into this farce. There needs to be a great deal of education on this bill, especially with the seniors who are taken in by money hungry rip off artists. And both Obama and the dDms know that the bill is going to have to be revisted and revised in the future. As it is written (without a public option) the bill is basically worthless as far as a complete HC reform package. Therefore they know that at some point once the public recognizes that private insurance firms will continue to rip people off as well as raise their premiums the bill is going to have to be amended to include a public option. All this will take communication, education and work by the Obama administration. And thank goodness we have a Presdient who can multi-task and talk to seniors about the HC bill while also keeping his attention on the oil spill in the gulf and those plans being laid to make BP pay, and to pay big time.

Fancy That said "I in fact believe now that the President is out of touch."

Can you explain why you feel like that? The Presidents message has not changed since being elected. I, in fact, believe that the President is more focused than ever. The thing that is so hard for a lot of people to understand is that he gets that the US is in big trouble and that focusing on one situation at a time will not get it done. I think he realizes that he has to be able to work on as much as he can because he will get no help from anyone else, including so-called supporters. He can't win the hearts and support of those that only think of themselves or personal agenda. He came into office thinking that his party would help; not a lot most seem to worry about whats best for ME, the other side of the isle is still angry because of their loss of the election, so I admire him for continuing to do what he feels is best and not lose focus. He said he would not worry about being re-elected but would let his accomplishments be the deciding factor. So be it. Whether you believe it or not he does have some important accomplishments to refer to, that is if you look at them with an open mind.

Oh Shut Up.

So what EXACTLY would those dead Presidents have done to "plug the hole"? NOBODY in this day and age can, so I know that they definetly could do NOTHING but rant and rave which would accomplish NOTHING!!!

K Mac

You must not be very popular in Oklahoma! The President is on the opposite side of every issue with the American People . We screamed No to his HC bill they shoved it down our throats with reconciliation, we want our boarders secured and Federal laws enforce Obama is on the side of Illegal aliens, we want fiscal responsibility and he just keeps spending. We are awake and he will never be elected again.

d-burger

I don't do it for popularity, it is what I believe and that is all that matters to me. I'm not trying to force-feed my beliefs on anyone, just expressing how I feel. Everybody has an opinion and I express mine when I feel the "itch" to. I voted for and stand with the President. The rest really doesn't matter.

Do you think there is anything wrong with that?

I dont agree with your opinion but would always defend your right to express yourself. Lets hope with Obama in office you don't lose that right.

You are no obama supporter - if you were you would know that no one can pull a magic wand out of their *** and fix this oil spill overnight. Let's have your idea's on how to stop this since you are apparently so all knowing fo what he has not done but should have. And as far as healthcare, it's sort of like training your children. You have to repeat over and over that no matter what little suzie told you, the moon and sun are not going to colide - do you see the similarities here? Oldsters are always afraid of change, it's a natural part of aging - I should know, I am one and therefore I have the right to call a spade a spade . Oh, and if you truly are an obama supporter then I believe you should default to the other side - you seem to fit in with that mindset of the immediate expectations you have of this man and the ability to be a realist is obviously out of your realm of understanding.

You don't sound much like a Obama supporter to me worrying about his choice of attire and whether he should get stains on his clothing. You sound like a fox news hound! The past presidents you mentioned would be proud that finally what they started concerning health care he finished! Go back to fox news you fake supporter!

Fancy that:

Why lie on the dead? They can't defend themselves against the living that lie-- fancy that lie you just told on them. They would be doing the SAME thing he's doing. There is nothing that we (GOVERNMENT) have to plug the hole.

It makes you Republicans look bad and those lawmakers that were in office that voted to resend laws and regulations-- the same media that are attempting to stir BS as though they are pupet masters-- should have BEEN reporting and leaning on BUSH-- but at last...they do what they do....Nothing.

He let them know now because as seniors they probably have already forgotten or never knew in the first place. What a shame if they threw the check away thinking it's another bill or junk mail. This way they know whats coming, not what they have lost afterwards.

I would happily forgo that $250 dollasr if he will repeal the insurance farce.

However I wouldn't get too attached to the insurance farce, we may have to wait until we throw the inept liar in the white house, out, but we will repeal, it, you think we are going to let you liberal parasites saddle us with another broke, leech program?

Merry Christmas here's your lousy $ 250.00 doughnut, I mean check. By the way don't forget it gets entered on Line 1 of your Income tax earnings for the year and line 9. of total health care premiums paid or earned, you poor bastard.

As for me, I'll just mail it back and refuse to accept it like I did the 500.00 stimulus check and force the IRS to call 10 times asking why I never reported it or cashed it..........I must be un-American they thought, I'd certainly have made McCarthy's anti Americans list for such, thank god he's at least dead.

Nice to see a real compassionate christian K Mac! The conservative christian lunatic fringers have no compassion whatsoever and would just say the unfortunate must pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. We both know that these conservative christian lunatic fringers would be the first ones in line for social program handouts if they were needy and out of work and money. At a time like this we must "Love Thy Neighbor" as you christians say. We must be better than being a bunch of whiny conservative self serving cheapskates!

Thanks Eric. I understand that some don't share my belief in G-d and that is ok. I am taught that you must get that for yourself and I refuse to insist or make others believe, that would not be good for the other person.

I do feel compassion and empathy for the less fortunate and sometimes I get angry at self-righteous folk that don't realize the hypocrisy that they demonstrate. I am far from perfect but I know that and I continue to work on it.

K Mac in Okla

I have one question that no one has answered yet. What are unemployed people, those without healthcare, those with no way to feed and support their kids and other family members supposed to do without help from social agencies? There are few jobs right now and even if there were more jobs someone would still be left out in the cold so to speak.

Please try to have some compassion for your fellowman in times of need.

Not a problem, but . . . . The "but" is as we tax and borrow more and more to spend on "compassion", we take more and more money from private companies and from individuals. Soon, rather then later, we run out of money. How compassionate will it be to cut and eliminate social programs as California, Illinois, Michigan, and New York are doing today because there is no money? How compassionate will it be when we spend an ever growing percentage of our tax dollars to service a ballooning federal debt, money that could be used for the social programs? By legislating all their social programs, programs, the liberals are in the process of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Jo Anna, you mean like the 3 trillion dollar wars in Afghanistan and Iraq social programs?

Joanna, you are making an assumption that there is a 'finite' amount of money available. Since our money is FIAT, and it is backed by the full faith and confidence in the United States, there IS NO 'finite' amount of money available. This is why we are continually printing more. The monies are 'backed', if you will, by the ability of America to produce 'stuff' to sell abroad and the credit that goes along with it. This is why I believe we have soaring Federal Deficits. The states, on the other hand, are mandated to have balanced budgets.

Besides, America is good for it.

How do I know? We have been spending 15 BILLION dollars a month for war for the past 8 years, and we STILL have money to be able to finance that effort.

If we can find the money to contually fund our war effort, we can find the money for health care with the new HCR law. Now, if you said STOP spending on the war, I would be in your corner.

I am not holding my breath on that.

Well said, K Mac.

I will never understand why people continue to vote for those who do nothing to help or protect them when times are tough. Not too long ago, former Pres Bush (43) said that the biggest regret of his presidency was NOT privatizing social security--it wasn't failing to finish two wars, Katrina, 9/11, Gitmo or a host of other tragic happenings during his 8 years--he hated not privatizing social security.

Get rid of all the illegals and there will be jobs for Americans that want to work. The socialized medicine will be the ruin of America and the medical field. if socialism is so good for the American people why do 70% of America want this abortion of a law repealed and replaced with one that is REAL refoem? Oh yeah, this pleases the socialist/communist handlers of this disaster of a President. When Obama has to speak "off the cuff" he makes Bush 2 sound like the best public speaker ever. this guy is not capable of speaking "off the cuff" in a logical or organized manner. We got a "talking head' President. God help us all.

Ray,

"Ruin", "abortion", "communist", "talking head" are great adjectives for soundbites. When have we heard these before? Too bad no one is buying them. Keep trying though!

Perhaps we would and could do more to help those in our communities if the Government stopped stealing all our money and redistributing it to those they want to redistribute it to.

d burger

My sentiments exactly!

JoAnna, do you honestly think that if millionaires and corporations pay 30% instead of 25% in taxes, they are in danger of running out of money? Didn't Jesus have a few things to say about rich men and helping the less fortunate? Conservatives can't claim that this is a "Christian country" and also be against helping those who can't help themselves. It is totally counter to their professed philosophy. (In other words - hypocritical).

Ray, what "socialized medicine" are you talking about? When insurance companies own and run the health care industry, how is that "socialized"? Socialism is government ownership of industry. Insurance companies are privately owned. That is not socialism. Why do you guys keep saying that when it is so patently incorrect?

Kmac, here in Texas, our children have healthcare and there is a food bank everywhere you look. No need for them to go without food, medical or clothing. You don't have these services in Oklahoma?

Answer this Oh wise and great Wizard behind the curtain, In the immortal words of Judd Hirsch as Julious Levinson of the film Independence day......... "you really don't think they spend 7,000 dollars on a hammer or 10,000 dollars on a toilet seat do you ?"

Well if they do I got a question for you Mr. Obama....... If they are spending that much what have you done in your first 500 days of office, what have you done to bring the price of Insurance down and what does it now cost. Its your watch Mr. president, its your change . "ahh go on " putsba !

they learned from Washington State where the gov went to vote by mail fraud and stole the governership with votes "found" in Seattle (Chicago of the west). limit or eliminate the voting place and require use of the mail the D's can win and control all major elections. Fla. tried to cheat and didn't have success in the cheating. Chicago and Washington State have learned how to cheat and get the office. crooked politics are a well learned corruption the Democrat party has used since the end of the Civil War.

Ray, forgot about Fla. already? You know Bush, Gore, nice try.

Anna - I think that what you have brought up is exactly the point. One thing the recession has really brought to light is that our retirement funds are in a market that runs on SPECULATION. The economy in Europe and the BP oil spill has chased the speculators away but the real, brick& mortar companies that our 401K's have invested in are doing just fine - its the speculation which is not based on anything concrete that has cuased us all to lose our retirement funds.

Wall Street has lost its way. Instead of investing in companies with sound financial future, they invest based on speculative nature of how economies would or should react to events. Unfortunaltely our financial futures are currently all tied to this runaway financial system that gave us 'interest-only' home loans and 'no credit check required' mortages.

The healthcare bill is needed because many of us won't have the money we thought we would when retirement comes around. And we are just the first....

In theory, someone who is that close to retirement should have long ago directed whoever is controlling his or her plan to shift the vast majority of the funds over to the types of investments that do not return a lot, but that are not risky. I would recommend, if you have a lot to lose in a 401k that you start doing that no later than 5 years before you plan to retire. You continue to contribute to the fund and your employer continues to match it, but you are not wiped out by events like 2008.

However, the vast majority of people place far too much trust in whoever is controlling their fund and leave the IRA in the 'default' mode that it starts out in when they first get their job. These types of folks are the ones that tend to get wiped out by the cyclical nature of the stock market and the free market economy just before they retire. Most just tend not to be very educated about what their options are regarding their own retirement plans or how that 401K works.

For this reason alone, I tend to think the 401K approach to retirement is broken.

No kidding. What you describe is exactly what I was about to do when the market entered free fall in the Fall of 2007, although my projected retirement date was beyond 5 years from that. And now that the funds have mostly recovered, albeit without three years of gain in the interim, I was about to do the same thing this week; that is, until I saw my current balances. Sheesh.

I've been hearing same talk. The employment numbers seem to be a big factor. Sorry about your funds. I faired pretty well through the storm but one never knows what will come next. Now, think about it. If you've had to change your retirement and are worried about what you should commit to, what impact do you think that's having on business?

When I moved to San Diego, I was fortunate to be employed by a company that had profit sharing. Yearly my share of those profits were placed with a financial investment firm according to my wishes. In addition, employees could contribute money to their account as well. I always maintained a variety of investments including stocks. As I got older, I would review it yearly and have the investment firm move some money from stocks to guaranteed incomes and bonds. By paying attention to that money, my age, and paying attention to the warning signs in 2007 and 2008, I lost very little of my money.

One of the things I remembered from the beginning was the emphasis placed on age and switching to less risky investments as you neared retirement; that was reinforced with literature from the employer and the investment firm and occasional in-house meetings. I have a friend (Iowa) who, for whatever reason, assumed that the employer's investment firm would automatically move the money to less risky investments at age 55. Who knows where a person gets such ideas but they do.

And where would Social Security be if GWB had succeeded in privatizing it? If all of the Social Security funds had been in the stock market from the time he wanted to do that, all the people who don't have 401k investments to lose would have nothing now.

Heartlight ~ I shudder to think.

Dirt ~ It's probably having a huge effect on business. The skittishness of the market is what will cause another dip in the recession.

Jody ~ Good for you. It never occurred to me that it wouldn't bounce back quickly, so I let it ride. It was a lot of money. I hated to lose the principal with no hope of ever regaining it. Do you ever wonder where the funny money value ends up? In some investment banker's offshore account, no doubt.

Michael, great advice. I have moved money periodically to more balanced and very low risk funds and did ok during the downturn. On the upside , if you move some money to more conservative investments and still buy higher risk investments through payroll deductions during a downturn you can earn very good returns. Food for thought.

Alan, after buying the policy then the insurance companies would have just upped the rates and taken all of it back putting us right back to where we began. C'mon man, you know this reform is needed, right?

Yes, but the HCR legislation is not reform...it's a mess. My point was that the complexity in the legislation is it's undoing.

You're exactly right, Alan. It is too complex. The system is a mess. That is exactly why we need a single payer system. Simple. Linear. Covers everyone.

That's a big jump. My idea was that we should scrap chips and introduce Medicare for Kids - no means test. This would cover all kids from conception up to 3 month after high school (18 + summer). My next program would be if you go to college health care should be included in the tuition. If you don't go to college your on your own (still employer based until later). The benefits of this would be that companies would have reduced costs as only employees and partners would be covered. Parents who lost their job would not have to worry about their kids health care. It would remove all the worry about pre-existing conditions etc. and this stupid idea that a kid of 26 can still be on their parents policy. The final program would be similar to the one currently in the HCR bill where the government steps up and insures high risk patients with pre-existing conditions. This would have been paid for by raising the Medicare tax. No nickel and diming a million different things.

This would have been my HCR for this administration

I actually LIKE Alan, NJ's idea.

At some point, we need to address the idea that we're entrusting people who have a vested interested in driving costs up with being our advocates in keeping costs down to the health care industry. Until that happens, costs in this nation will continue to skyrocket in ways the rest of the world can only imagine.

Awhile back, I linked a study that demonstrated that the cost of an MRI when the technology was new was virtually identical in the United States and Japan. Now, 25 years later, the cost of an MRI in Japan is virtually the same as it has always been while in the United States, it has grown by a factor of 10 at least. The technology for performing an MRI is virtually the same. The expertise needed to perform an MRI has not increased. In fact, the only thing that has ballooned in the interim is the cost.

Yet in Japan, it is the same. Why? Because the Japanese have an advocate for the population with a vested interest in keeping costs down. In this country, we have the exact opposite. Until that changes, there is no health care plan, no matter how complex or how simple that will succeed. In order to enact real reform, we must completely eliminate the idea of a for-profit company being our gateway to healthcare.

The only thing with the beauracracy and infrastructure to perform the service besides the already existing healthcare insurance companies is the federal government. Yes, the service would probably be indifferent and lame, but indifferent and lame is a long sight better to me than predatory, hostile and obsequiously smarmy through advertising, which is what we have right now.

Alan, I can agree with some of what you are saying and live with it but there is still the problem with the insurance companies. They will continue to raise rates, they have shown that already and the question of insurance for the remainder of the population is still unclear. I believe that the lack of healthcare is a large part of what is wrong with the financial woes of the US.

You see, if our politicians would come together with ideas like this and be open to them regardless of who gave them things can get done.

I have an idea, why don't we invade Washington and just move in until we get things worked out. There are many sensible posters on here with different political affiliations but they are able ot have sensible conversations.

I don't agree that it's all the insurance companies fault. If you look around the world every health care system is struggling with rising costs and new technologies. Rationing is the only answer - and yes I do mean Death panels or whatever else you want to call them. Health Insurance companies are the ones performing this task right now - very badly - and when there are enough protests they simply pass the cost along. There has to be a total rationalization of how health care is paid for (maybe chickens - joke), because we cannot support unlimited health care spending.

It's certainly a hard call. One would like to think with many, many more insured that the increased premium revenue would then keep cost down. However, if as many people aren't seeking health care today because they "can't afford it" become eligible then it's likely there were will be overuse, misuse of the system that would keep cost up. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, it seems.

kmac, reform yes this reform NO!

Ray-1162980;

You could be right but there are some parts of this bill that aren't bad. I don't agree with all of it but if level heads had prevailed it could have been a lot better. I still believe that the republicans did not want to work with the President and they did not do everything they could have done to help and thus made it difficult to come up with a good bill. Afterall, they did say they wanted it to be his "waterloo", remember.

I am not a republican but the truth is that the republicans were locked out of negotiations for this monstrosity! Do a little research.

elby-1471754,

That is not true. In fact, much of the watered down crap we received were old bob dole and other antiquities from a kinder, gentler Republican day. But, you were saying?

Kmac-

Alot of people who don't have health insurance don't want to pay for it. Typically younger/healthier folks. If they got on the insurance rolls it would probably help others in the plan since they wouldn't be big users of the services thus spreading out the risk.

The problem with this is that we live in America and we can't force people to buy health insurance (yet). I know people will say "but we make people by car insurance" yes we do because they may cause someone other than themselves harm. You can't (not yet anyway) force someone to buy something they don't want, even though it may be good for them.

The HCR bill does pretty much force everyone to pay by either buying insurance or paying a fine. I don't like the bill because it is not well thought out, it is a political tool, it will hurt job growth by adding huge financial strain to companies already struggling or forcing people who can't afford insurance to buy it or be penalized.

We need to deal with pre-existing conditions, means tested access for those with out insurance, and tort reform so we can keep people interested in being a doctor.

Health care is a human right, not a human privilege.

according to whom, patHuntingtion? where did htis "right" originate?

BS------------- The only thing breathing entitles you to is oxygen, pay for it or do without.

I would cut my own head off, before I would try to force someone to buy my insurance, and please God strike me dead if i ever become so worthless I feel entititled to take the reward of some one else's labor.

You are a little late with your Carter-Reagan comparison...we had that already...in November 2008 except your guy was Carter [the loser] and our guy [the winner] was Reagan. I suggest you go pick up your toys and go play with the smaller kids because you are out of your league here bucko!

You might be an attorney but you are not an accountant. This bill does not, will not add anything to the deficit. The cost may be over a trillion dollars over 10 years BUT it is paid for (no deficit spending). And in the second 10 years it produces a trillion dollar savings.

*According to the CBO*

Except it isn't a presidential election year. Didn't they teach that in your law school? I got that in mine.

By the way, the only period since 1980 in which the answer to President Reagan's questions would have been "yes," was during the Clinton administration. It certainly wasn't during Reagan's, during which we had a deep recession, ballooning deficits, a disastrous episode in the Middle East which hardly anyone recalls today, AND a constitutional crisis of grave proportions that has never been fully explained because of all the cowardly grants of immunity and pardons. If that was "morning in America," then it was a VERY short day that followed.

This is simply not true! Either you don't check your facts and are led like a puppy by the nose or, more likely, you are simply outright lying to muddy the waters.

A SIMPLE 2 minutes of researching on the CBO site debunked your funk with ease. almost a trillion dollars of deficit reduction over the next 19 years.

Dolt!

You might be an attorney but you are not an accountant. This bill does not, will not add anything to the deficit. The cost may be over a trillion dollars over 10 years BUT it is paid for (no deficit spending). And in the second 10 years it produces a trillion dollar savings.

*According to the CBO*

Hey Dennis, maybe you need to check out the latest from the CBO: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37081.html

it appears "discretionary spending wasn't in the initial bil, intentionally...CBO says they wanted to wait to release the # until it was accounted for, but the Dems kept handing them amendment after amendment. and now, the bill is, at LEAST, $115B higher than projected in spending.

oops. doesn't it suck when you try to cite something, and you are instantly proven wrong?

Yes.

1 trillion - 115 billion appears to be 885 billion in savings over ten years.

You certainly schooled him.

Alan: The CBO did not say the Hc bill will add 1 trillion to the deficit. It said the total bill would cost 1 trillion, but that would not be added to the deficit. Where did you construe that anyway. The majority of it will be paid for by cuts and taxes to some individuals.

Hey Looney maybe you should re-read what I commented on and then re-read your link. Yes there is an additional $115 billion over the first 10 years but there is still NO deficit spending.

PS: With this new format you no longer need to copy and paste.

Michael- thats not $885B in SAVINGS. the $1T figure was in COST. the bill was sold as costing about $950B. now add $115B to that, and now we have about $1.06T...but wait, there's more! HHS (Health and Human Services) also released numbers that said the costs will be considerably higher. HHS also reports that roughly 15% of hospitals will close- (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/64614) so much for "accesibility". so thats great- you get health care, but can't be seen! what a GREAT plan!

add to that the $$$ the bill is counting on- as many as 15 MILLION people leaving their employer based plans (being forced off of them)- and yuo can see what a sham the whole "If you like your doctor, keep it" concept.

wake up, man. this iteration of HCR reform is a bad joke.

I love the Obama-nomics, spend money in the trillions and we will save trillions. When I was young and stupid I tried that and almost went banko. You libs scream we can spend our way into recovery, spending by the gov will not lead to recovery, only deeper recession or even depresson. JFK and Reagan proved the best way to economic recovery is to reduce the tax load on business and the wealthy and there will be job creation. Not the short term, tempory gov census job that does not create anything. Government does not create a product that has a positive effect on the economy, no goods produced only service cost. Try the Obama-nomics in your personal life and see how long you keep a good credit score. 775 now 450 later, no credit, no future, Obama care, please load my gun and hand it to me, leave the room - thanks bye

I see... funny you DIDN'T mention the $15 BILLION a MONTH (for 8 years now) we are spending on the war effort... we seem to be able to afford shoveling money into THOSE coffers without too much trouble, correct? We seem to have NO PROBLEM paying for the wars, correct? So what is it to ya - a few million here and there for health care... you know, for something that ALL of us can benefit from?

I think the discussion was about health care, not the war(s).

When the CBO scores the bill, they score it according to the parameters of the bill submitted. Based upon the original bill, and the original assumptions, the bill was to achieve deficit reductions of 1 Trillion over 20 years. That has since been superceded by several adjustments made to the bill, and there have been additional cost considerations. It's no longer deficit neutral over 10 years, but it is still projected to save slightly less than 1 Trillion over 20 years. My problem with that is pretty simple, in a business model, you have some degree of accuracy in the coming year, it gets less over five years, and after five years, pretty much anyone's guess is just that, a guess. I doubt seriously that we will save 1 Trillion dollars over any time frame. 20 years represents five presidential terms, who's not going to try to put their mark on the world with that kind of money at stake? I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat, not one of them is going to leave well enough alone, and generally, adding benefits costs more money.

The wars ARE a part of it, as we're talking about paying for these programs. We need to prioritize expenditures. If we really believe these wars are in our national interest, that's one thing, but if we're just doing it to extend (or keep) our empire, that's ridiculous. Al I'm saying is we can't keep printing money, or borrowing from China, for all these programs.

Hey, Jody -

I'd be happy if my co-pay was ONLY $20. Mine is currently $40 just to see my Primary Care and $50 for a specialist - and that's for the less expensive of the two plans my employer offers. Drugs are $20 just for generics and $40 for brand names like the breast cancer drug I was on for the last six years. But if you believe the polls (and you know what I think of those already), 60% of the country thinks that's just peachy and we don't need any healthcare reform. I wish I had THEIR plans!

On a lighter note - I saw your comment last night about Fred Thompson doing infomercials, and I just wanted to let you know that I, for one, LOVED Fred Thompson in "The Hunt for Red October", one of my all-time favorite movies. And I also love Fred Thompson because....ummm.....well.....gee, can I get back to you on that one?

AARP is in Obama's pocket and I don't trust them at all. they don't seem to be interested in the best interest of the Senior in America. I have made it clear I want nothing to do with AARP, and they keep sending me info and begging me to join. They, like Obama, only want the money and power and do not represent the people.

JODY------------- Oh don't worry sunshine, we understand it, boy, do we understand it.

a 460 billion cut in medicare to hand insurance to the leeches that voted for him, oh yeah we understand.

He is having a good time, our turn is coming.

my response to ths post would be... AND?? What's your point?

You are SO SURE that the HCR is a disaster? Really? care to share some statistics or links proving that?

I ran into a die-hard Republican a few days ago that was trying to get health insurance and they had a pre-existing condition. They are NOW actually able to obtain and AFFORD their health insurance because of this new law. They had to admit that even though they did not vote for President Obama, they are SURE GLAD that the new law is in place because without it, the insurance company would have been able to deny them coverage.

I am sure there are more stories that we DON'T hear about.

Actually probably ALL have pre-existing conditions as imperfect humans except Jesus Christ himself. And pre-Healthcare Bill Passage we were all vuneralbe and if we would just admit it - we never told doctors the whole truth because we knew that the insurance companies probably wouldn't have paid. We used to say stuff like - "I just noticed this" or "I just started feeling this" - because we knew that the truth would guarantee that the insurance company would deny payment. This bill has allowed us to tell the truth and get better healthcare already!!!!

Dirty Harriet... I love the screen name.

What 'real' HCR do you want?

Hi Pietro,

Of the central premises of the HCR, one thing I truly would like to know is where is the $500 Billion in savings from Medicare coming from? I know, waste, fraud, etc, but if we know it's there, why is it there, and why don't we use that money to save the system (Medicare)? I'd also like to know why student loan reform was a part of the health care bill, doesn't seem to connect, unless the savings from student loans were to offset part of the health care cost. I don't want you to think I'm picking on you, but I really don't think anyone, including the representatives and senators that voted for this bill know where the savings are coming from, nor do they honestly believe that this will save money. HCR from my perspective would be pretty straightforward, provide Medicare to those who are not covered, use the savings from waste and fraud to fund it, and if there is a shortfall, tell everyone that we are going to raise taxes to pay for it. I know, it's political suicide to tell that type of truth, but I'd like to believe that people would pay the tax, if they knew that the next administration wouldn't pull the rug out from the funding.

Hey Living in LA, first of all, I do not think you are picking on me. You have been a reasonable voice out here, and I will gladly answer your question(s) the best I can.

To answer your question about the school loans, it was a rider on the health care bill because it would not ever be passed by THIS Congress on it's own. Unfortunately, a lot of bill 'ride' on other bills so we can get things passed.

I hear and read a lot of people are 'afraid' of the HCR because they think it will bankrupt the US; I say that's balderdash, and myt reasoning is that we are still spending $15 BILLION a month in 2 wars. If we can find the money to fund that, we can DEFINITELY find the money to fund healthcare. I never really understood why spending money on OUR infrasctructure is so HEINOUS; why spending money on the better ment of AMERICANS is so HEINOUS. We never had too much problem rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure and - get this - they have better health care than we do... and WE are paying for theirs!!

I think that the hypocracy of where our money is being spent is why we have such an issue with the HCR law. Also, many right-wingers felt that the bill was 'crammed down their throats' when the real truth is that the GOP decided they were just going to say NO and they did not engage at ALL. Unfortunately for their constituents, HCR was passed WITHOUT GOP input.

FInally, normally I would agree that HCR should be straightforward, but it isn't because of Democratic Senators who have, I believe, their own agenda, and that agenda does NOT include the American people. We are seeing the backlash against that in AR against Sen. Lincoln. Unfortunately, this law will be a 'living, breathing' law where it will be amended and perfected down the road. It IS too bad that we couldn't get 535 extremely big egos to agree to help Americans for once.

This is my short answer. Nothing is going to be perfect in politics (I know you knew that already, but this fits my narrative), so we gwt what we can and fix it when we can. Until the body politic is not as toxic as it is now, that will have to do.

That's okay, we may to wait till we remove Obama, but we'll repeal it and then a lot of the parasite bills the leeches have pushed through over the years are going to go away.

You are not going to stick us with a nother broke leech bill.

You libs have gone too far this time and you are going to pay the price.

Since I can now admit to my doctor the truth about anything in my medical past and know that I won't have my insurance cancelled - I guess I'll just have be seriusly delusional - Just call me Delusional and Loving It (in a healthy way of course).

The CBO office held the updated report until Pelosi, Obama and Reid got their votes. Pelsoi's at a HC town hall today and the left no less, was heckling her! The American people can smell and HC stinks! We all know that.

We have a ground-swell movement here in OH to get our state exempted on the Nov ballot. Of course our Dem Attorney General said he couldn't do anything as it would be a "frivolous" use of Taxpayer money yet, the Dems are using $400 Mil to get a train that runs 40 mph between Cleveland, Cols and Cincinn? Now tell me. Who in the hell has the brains? The public or the politician???

Annie, OH NEEDS a train system, ESPECIALLY between Cincy, Columbus and Cleveland.

I find it FASCINATING that people like yourself would rather DIE or stay sick than get good health coverage. Still smarting about the HCR law being passed WITHOUT the GOP? Maybe you should be mad at the GOP for not representing you as they should have. It's kinda FUNNY when the 'mighty' GOP get their butts kicked by a skinny dude with big ears.

Sulk much?

Pietro, You obviously know little about ObamaCare. Spend a little time and find out what is actually in it and you may not be so smug about it.

Elby, I have been in the Medical Field for almost 20 years. I have done billing in the medical field for over 15 years. I KNOW what pre-existing conditions are. I know that people WERE deferring treatment because they could not pay for it right away.

Although I am NOT completely happy with ALL of the aspects of HCR, I know that the IMPORTANT things that affect people's health WAS passed.

Just because YOU do not like HCR doesn't mean other will agree with you.

Pietro:

I see that we share common knowledge-- I too have been in the Medical Profession for 15 years in surgical services administration and I'll tell you one thing-- this HCR act will help millions that are currently without medical coverage. It's not the best that we could have had-- but we all agreed that it's a start.

Medicare wasn't the best when it was passed; but it improved over the years and admendments will improve HCR as well. I don't see many that have the coverage complaining about the Big Government's involvement in their Health Care wouldn't want Government to discontinue it. Many don't know that the AMA have dibs on the billing codes for physicians-- just my 1 cent contribution to this topic. lol!!

Anita, I did ICD-9 coding for MANY years. Many people do NOT know that billing for Doctor's offices are COMPLETELY different from billing for Radiologists, Anesthesiologists or Physical/Occupational Therapy. I have seen the worst of the worst when it comes to people who need to have or complete treatment and have to stop because their insurance doesn't allow it. I have seen countless people who were harmed because of that.

This is why I SUPPORT the HCR law, no matter what the right says. They are just mad because they got their asses kicked by a skinny dude with big ears.

Pietro:

LMAO!!! That was too real! You are so right about the billing issues-- many of these same people on this board are complaining about HCR when they don't even understand the damn doctor's bill that they receive. That's why I just laugh and let a lot of them spin their ignorance! lol!!!

AnnieRich: So your a senior, how's your government run health care been working for you? Oh wait you probably didn't have it being the good right winger you are. As I read your post I can tell with all your free time you must wait on every word coming out of the mouths of Lardbaugh, InsaHannity and Bill O'Really. Ya, "power grab" is a classic, " owns or controls 51% of what used to be private enterprise" and my favorite, " socialism which is the first step to communisim", all right side sound bites. Maybe change the channel once in awhile, get a little balance, people might take you serious. As far as cuts to seniors, I bet there won't be any cuts or a drop in the level of care, just fear coming from the aforementioned talking heads. By the way I'll be considered a senior in a couple years so I've been around awhile also, though not as long as you have.

Mmillie, You may become a senior in a couple of years and then You will find out what that crappy Obamacare is going to do to you! You obviously have swallowed all Obama's lies. Try doing some research before spout off your ignorance.

Elby, Elby, Elby. I see you have taken a LIBERAL (pun intended) dose of the HATERADE.

Not a good look for you.

Well there Elby, just a question, are you a senior? If so what have you lost and if not what do you really know about it? How about giving me an idea where to look for the information that you didn't provide. As Pietro said, lay off the Haterade. (I like that one.)

ERIC---------- Don;'t know about the country, but you can bet there are going to be so hungry parasites, you libs have gone too far.

C'mon, Annie... prove that the Government owns or controls 51% of private enterprise. Show us some links that will back your claim. I'll even settle for just TWO links.

Annie, you are right. Obamacare is a disaster. It is going to be a living nightmare for people, but there are those who will believe whatever the lying politicians are shoveling; they are the people who have not bothered to find out what is actually in that mess!

AnnieRich:

I'm a senior as well and let me tell you MISSY that you only get what you pay for. What part of the 51% that YOU claim that the Government owns when your boys sold us to hell in a hand basket? If you can't present those facts then don't bother answering this response.

Didn't Bush -Paulson Nationalize the banks? I want to know what you're talking about OLD woman because you're lying and if you're as old as you say you are-- you should be afraid because you could go to hell any day for that lie and bust it wide open getting there.

Not necessarily; it called politics and we are in the primaries when people need reminding that THOSE that voted for HCR should retain their seats verses those that voted against it. I'm amazed at the short sight opinions I'm reading out here.

Have any of you all been following the state by state elections? LOL!!!