"Why hard-working fishermen and laborers from the gulf coast region would vote Republican defies all logic."

Maybe they'll vote republican because they can't afford to run a fishing business after paying for mandatory health insurance, increased licensing and fees to cover the new regulation and paperwork - and don't forget the carbon tax that's coming...or have we invented the electric/nuclear fishing boat yet?

Why hard-working fishermen and laborers from the gulf coast region would vote Republican defies all logic. They should be saying to the GOP, “You have been negligent in regulating the oil industry to protect our environment. Get that stinking elephant out of my living room because you have trampled and destroyed my way of life!”

In my part of the country (Missouri) the Republican Party is seen as the party of God by many, especially the older, and no matter how badly the Republican party rapes the environment, the people, whatever, the perception that the Republican Party is the religious party trumps everything else, this perception is reinforced from the pulpit of the many churches around Missouri, one of the most reprehensible attributes of the Republican Party in my opinion is their claim of moral superiority, when in fact their core values boil down to a take from the poor give to the rich unregulated capitalistic, Plutocratic mentality that would have made Jesus Christ wretch with disgust, go figure?

Ron i left a post friday stating the same thing your saying now, BP had no idea how to plug a line 5000 ft below the sea level. so my question to fox, rush and the tea party (KKK) movement. how the hell was the president suppose to stop a leak that BP could not. i watched fox yeaterday for a while and instead of the focus being on how this will affect the cost line and aminals like CNN there whole spin all day was how do we get the president on this. how do we some how get him out of office over this, how do we some how have hearing on this and bring the president down.

fox, rush, tea party (KKK) don't give a da— about the spill all the care about is getting the president.

katrina was a distastor that president bush had no control over, but he did have control over getting water and food in to the people stranded at the superdome. the media was passing out water 2 days before president bush sent in national guard to do the same.

thats a dam shame for rush, tea party(KKK) and fox to try and want to compaire this as the same thing.

W Bush: Never thought I would be commenting to W Bush! But...I will grant you that the Republican Party brands itself as the Party of God. But, Republicans are the party of McCain and Romney. McCain did not want to talk about religion and I doubt Romney will want to. My guess is President Obama' religious tenents are closer to the people of Missouri than one would think.

Hey DINOS, Obamao = Gulf Oil Spill, Obamao's Katrina , take it or leave it.

Jeff, if the only thing that comes from this is that we "get" a politician then we deserve poisoned water, polluted air, and an unlivable planet. The Earth will go on. Nothing says we have to be here.

It defies my logic, too, that people would vote AGAIN for the republicans whose disastrous deregulation policies caused the lack of strong oversight of big oil and friends, created the economic meltdown, spent billions without funding anything, led us into an unnecessary war ($1 trillion so far for Afghan and Iraq, mostly Iraq), and have the audacity to claim they are the party of fiscal responsibility--and worse, people believe them. Fiscal responsibility to whom: the rich, and big corporate interests. The GOP has mined the tax issue along with social issues of God, guns, gays and all thos "isms" so effectively that people vote against their own self-interest and instead vote for things that have little to no financial impact.

Speaking of Rush Limbaugh, I saw an article that he's getting married for the 4th time to a woman in her 30's. Guess money speaks volumes for this guy. More substantially, Limbaugh and the right-wing media is a danger to this country but I've said that probably a hundred times. The Tea Party is dangerous but as a recent editorial columnist said--go ahead, throw out the bums and elect Tea Party candidates because in two years, they'll be the bums to be thrown out and it won't take long for people to realize what they've been fed.

W Bush, I live in Missouri and to me it's not religion as much as it is the older people of Missouri look at the Republican party as the rich elite to whom they look up to, they don't understand their crooks and will take every thing they can from them for their own gain. People from Missouri listen to what the conservatives say, they don't look at what they do and how they act, if they did they'd be disgusted.

Mo and W Bush,

I, too, live in Missouri and I think the bigger picture with our state boils down to education and entrenchment. Religion plays a very large part of it. Assimilation also plays a role; but all of this is defined by a narrow filter of experience and knowledge. If you've never had an openly gay neighbor or family member that you loved and accepted for who they are - your view of 'gays' and your political position on the topic is more narrowly defined and therefore a black or white issue (I am not talking race - illustrating a point). There are much fewer shades of grey in the Midwest, in general. Often people take the position they are taught without reason or question. I don't see my state as red. I see it as purple with loads of opportunity to educate! Deprogramming hate and vitriol are a whole other set of issues!

"In my mind, this is all about deregulation. Republicans deregulated the banking system and the bankers got rich. Health care insurance companies were deregulated and they too became rich at the expense of the middle class. Essentially regulations were ignored during the Bush/Cheney years as those government agencies responsible for regulating oil companies were in bed with oil companies and they became one and the same."

Well said, Ron. That's the crux of the problem!

Ginger: It's so good to see you back on FR. You have been missed. Keep posting!

AMEN Ron. Deregulation, more money for the corporation, deregulation, Less taxes. Sounds good when said out loud, but in practice this actually is the worst thing for the middle class.

I have family members who watch Fox all day, are out of work (laid off) and still rant about the taxes and government take over of business. So sad. They will never vote democrat even when that should be the best party for them. I guess we do reap what we sow...unfortunately the sowing was very bad for the Gulf, for the average wage earner and for the country

Maybe they'll vote republican because they can't afford to run a fishing business after paying for mandatory health insurance, increased licensing and fees to cover the new regulation and paperwork - and don't forget the carbon tax that's coming...or have we invented the electric/nuclear fishing boat yet?

That's right, Alan. Regulating an out of control oil industry and insurance industry is the eeend of the wooorld!

Destruction of the planet's ecosystems that keep the world in a condition that we can all live in...Well, who gives a damn about that! It's no big deal. Besides, your in NJ. It's not your beaches.

What a completely stupid opinion. Another "The Market at all costs!", brainwashed, publican, automaton.

M. Fisher, I was not replying to any post regarding the regulation of the oil and gas industry. I was specifically replying to the question regarding the logic of gulf fishermen voting republican.

However, in all this call for more regulation and more government employees to enforce the new regulations, where does the money come from? Will these new employees be better than the current regulators and if so why? I do not think that unfettered markets nor government control of all aspects of the market are the answer. The argument is in the balance. When I see bumper sticker comments I protest and try and get specifics of what the poster is thinking.

Thanks, Ron! I will now that I've figured out the technology. I hope. :)) I'm happy to be here and it's always nice to know I'm missed.

Alan,

You are completely correct. Rather than risk putting the hard-working fishermen of the Gulf area out of business with increased costs due to increased regulations to maintain their livelihoods, we should allow the BP's of the world to operate completely unfettered by the type of regulation you decry. That way, when the entire gulf ecosystem is devastated and absent any meaningful life, you can be proud to say we did not put them out of business due to increased regulation. You can explain to them how you really do not give a damn about them as long as your fat dividend checks keep rolling in from the big oil stocks...

People like you that cannot see past their own pathetic self interests and care nothing for the greater good of America or the planet make me sick. How much more of the Earth's precious ecosystems do we need to obliterate before we wake up and realize what is being done to us all in the name of capitalism?

SIMPLY AMAZING!! Obama blames this mess on Bush during his press conference and you knuckleheads buy it hook, line and sinker. This mans been in office 18 months now, I guess thats not enough time to tighten up things at the EPA? Exactly how much time is needed?

It is way too early to determine how Louisiana will vote.

Nonetheless, could we have some ACCURACY in this report please?

THE CA GUBANATORIAL RACE IS NOT DECIDED TOMORROW (in reference will the ex governor become the CA governor).

Tomorrow is the primary. We already know that Jerry Brown will run as the Democratic candidate.

In the Republican primary, I sure hope that Poizner beats loud-mouth, flip flopping Meg Whitman who campaigned for Barbara Boxer, did not vote until she was 42 years old (she's 50 now), got payoffs from Goldmann Sachs a JUDGE ORDERED HER TO RETURN, and is on public record supporting amnesty.

I HOPE ALL CALIFORNIANS VOTE FOR STEVE POIZNER IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY!

I am super curious as to how an article about SUPER TUESDAY degenerated into a discussion about the oil spill in Louisiana.

Who's running in that state?

Good game last night Pat.

I'm with you, hope Halter wins tomorrow.

But what's sad Pat and Geingerbread Mamma is the media will spin Halters win as anti incumbent, where as in truth it's how Lincoln voted with the Republicans instead of the Democrats. All this anti incumbent nonsense has nothing to do with anti incumbent, it's how these Democrats have turned into Republican light.

Gingerbread - thumbs up to last nite's game. I agree. As far as Bill Halter, Mo - absolutely if Senator Lincoln loses, it will be because of her GOP lite behavior. It wasn't pretty.

Some video of Barber talking about how clean the Mississippi beaches are was shown on MSNBC this morning. Yeah, Governor. So far, so good. 'course, that's what someone who jumped off the 50th floor says when they arrive at the 10th floor!!

So then where's Barbour's outrage over this spill in the Gulf? Why isn't he on tv yelling and screaming? I suppose when a Republican doesn't do it, it's okay. Even though it's his region. Hypocrisy knows no bounds with these jackasses.

Dennis, I believe the Republicans are far from remaining silent, but have decided to let their talk radio and Fox News surrogates do all the talking for now. They've worked the refs pretty successfully on that one. First they cried "Why isn't Obama taking the lead on this?" and the MSM picked it up even though the government has no expertise on plugging deep sea oil wells and there's no way the taxpayers should have to foot the bill for this mess. In the early stages a supporting role was entirely appropriate for the government, except in the eyes of opposition.

Eventually the Administration bowed to pressure to take a more active role. Immediately the opposition switched messages to "see, this is all Obama's fault!" Really? In what world? The Administration didn't drill the well, didn't write the regulations for drilling, didn't even appoint the people who were asleep at the switch during the permitting process. If they had tried to appoint new people who were actually effective regulators the GOP would have been sure to block them.

There's only one winning move here. The Administration must move forward with strong legal action (already begun) and establish a regulatory scheme that ensures there will be no drilling where there is not way of stopping a spill. They need to point to "failures of an out of date regulatory system" and move to a "system that protects the public by keeping the same thing from happening again." Not only is that the only way the WH can come out of this clean, it's yet another nail in the coffin of failed, Laissez-Faire policies favored by the GOP. For me that's win-win.

Haley Barbour also said that drilling should continue and he's not worried about the beaches, they'll just clean it up--no big deal. The biggest natural disaster in U.S. history and this guy acts as if it is a easy fix. Clueless, completely clueless. Someone should drop him in the middle of a big oil slick, he's so full of hot air he'll surely float unlike the brown pelicans which sink and drown when their feathers become clogged with oil.

It's not a matter of moving the White House to the gulf coast. It's a matter of moving ships with skimmers (all that you can find) to the gulf coast and getting vacuum hoses activated in the area of the spill plume to suck up the plume before it spreads out. Getting permits issued quickly so the State of La,etc.. can erect sand berms to stop the oil from reaching shore. Gathering together groups of scientist, engineers, etc.. to work on the problem and provide ideas/solutions to control/stop the spread of the oil and to come up with ideas/ solutions to stop the leak. Also, listening to and implementing the ideas of everyday individuals that have been coming up with their own solutions. Not stumping on the campaign trail and going to fund raisers and photo ops.

Yeah but the Blackhawk's WON!

One MORE game baby! LOL

. Something from my Saturday post that I want to put back up because it's important to me. In the meantime I know that I have sent some assistance and reached out to a couple of old Cajun associates to get better lined up for future efforts and I already know that I'm going to burn most of my vacation time down there this year but I would like to reach out thru this forum to all the folks on the Gulf and surrounding area. First everybody I know is keeping you'll in or hearts and prayer's. Second let us know what is going on from your perspective. We all need that. Third let us know if there's anything we can do to lighten your load. Could be any thing. Do you know a group of kids that need to go to camp for instance? Do we need to get together and sponsor you'll some health clinics? Things like this you'll need to let us know. Reach out friends and neighbors and I garontee that we'll be there. The Old Indy Redneck done told you that.

Good point about "production", I hadn't heard that remark or at least it didn't register.

Right now, everyone is piling on Pres Obama but in the end, I think his diligent, thoughtful approach will sink into people once the frustration and sense of helplessness lessens. I believe his administration is doing everything possible, everything they can do solve this mess.

Which leads me to another thought I've written often--whatever happened to both parties working together to solve a crisis putting politics aside. The GOP should be working with President Obama and not criticising. To that end, Charlie Crist, Bobby Jindal and others deserve credit. Haley Barbour's absence at the two meetings show that he is concerned only about Haley Barbour and 2012.

Jody my Iowa ace for the last 20 years or so I have been a trouble shooter for several firms so I've had to set down at the poker table with guys like this when something goes awry.Never for the stakes we are talking about here but the first thing I learned is that you have to watch not only what you say but what they say very closely. That is why certain turns of a phrase will catch my attention real quick. As you and I have spoken before it is one of the things that I like about President Obama he is generally very precise in what and how he phrases things. Must be that Harvard lawyer in him. I think that reason that some of the initial response from the administration can be attributed to they being in the same position that you as a home owner would be if you call a repair man. You really don't understand how the a.c. unit works so you have to take the fellows word for it that those parts and that labor charge is correct.The shame of it all is that we have allowed the various agencies in our government to be filled with hacks that don't have a strong enough background in the industry that they are regulating so the President has to rely on a crooked repairman.

More good points, I.R. Listen carefully to what they say and what they don't say. The repair guy is a good way to explain it.

The GOP doesn't say much right now, except complain about Pres Obama, because as someone earlier said, they don't dare bite the hand that feeds them. Their silence is deafening with a few exceptions; one would think the residents in the Gulf would be asking why.

It frustrates me to think that everyone believes the Pres and Fed Govt (when they need it) weren't doing anything when in fact, they were on it as soon as they were notified. Just because the govt can fight wars doesn't mean it can fix an oil well a mile down--that's not what govt is supposed to do--it doesn't drill for oil so it can't cap a well in the ocean. Its responsibility is to find the repairman, rely on the idiot one that broke it, respond to the emergency (clean up, rescue/recovery), look for alternative solutions and coordinate the effort.

IR Just wanted to let you know that I was posting as Kathy Eau Claire before. Yes you recognized by style. I just could not get my screen name to come out the way I wanted. So I ended up using this sonokursh2 for my screen name. Have you joined us on facebook yet? you need to get with Feisty and get on with us. We certainly do keep in touch.

sonokursh2 your going to have let me mispell that two or three times till I get it right but thanks for letting me know. I Haven't gotten into the facebook thing yet but I think we'll be able stay in contact on the newsvine group. Looking forward to it truly.

Excellent question! If this were "Jeopardy", it'd be under "Getting Screwed" for $1,000!

The same people - The GOP & the Tea Party:

April 2010: "Government is not the solution!"

May/June 2010: "Why isn't the government more involved, doing more?"

Good Morning Pat:

While Dennis makes a good point, I would like to add that the Republicans are silent...because they don't know what to say. They are pro large private enterprise, yet when big oil screws up, they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. I'm wondering how long it will take before the Republicans stop obstructing in the Senate and the Senate passes passes a bill that has a 10 billion cap on oil damages.

Hi Ron. The Republicans are not going to stop obstructing. They don't care about anyone or anything. Just power and money. That's it.

Dennis is correct. One minute they say - government is not the solution. And then the next minute - complete turnaround, but only when something affects them personally. And then they scream - where is our government?

It's worse than that, Pat. They don't just think government is the problem; they GUARANTEE it with their policies. And then they sit there and point out how bad and inefficient government is. It is the perfect crime for them as they don't every have to actually do anything but a bang up 'marketing' job. Make people fear it, tell them who's to blame for it. No solutions, no genuine effort at improvement - just more of the same!

Exactly right, Clara. Conservatives have spent a generation killing the ability of the government to be effective. It's their goal. When it isn't effective they point and scream "see, the government can't do anything right!" It's like not putting new shingles on my roof, then saying "what's the point, it leaks anyway."

I think it's funny the way the Republicans get on TV and hunt down every microphone they can find and yell about how bad the Government is, and expect people to not think their part of that Government. Well at least the teabaggers don't think the Republicans are part of the Government. They've really come to believe that the public is stupid, they've been hanging around the teabaggers too long.

Hey Pat from Boston, The Bammy was a SOB from Ole Chicago. This is Bammy's DISASTER far greater than Bush's Katrina. He went there four days after and you crucified him and Bammy went their 40 days after and not a whimper from you and your DINOS. A funny thing happened to Bammy on his way to the Washington Column, Mother Nature sank his Divinity. He encouraged the public on the pretense of divinity and it took Mother Nature to end his blasphemy.

All good points. The GOP has successfully made government ineffective by "starving the beast" and with a straight face complains about how ineffective it is.

Branstad has been running an ad where he advocates that seniors shouldn't be faced with rising property taxes. Well, maybe if the state income tax was fair instead of biased toward the rich, local governments wouldn't have to raise property taxes and add local options sales taxes in order to keep the schools running and fix the streets. How foolish people are to think that cutting their income taxes means they'll pay less taxes--they're paying more instead on the things they buy from necessities to luxuries.

What do we hear from Iowa republicans right now: small government, tax cuts, improve education, cut taxes for business to create jobs. How they plan to cut taxes and provide what the promise is beyond me. And and don't forget the GOP Iowa governor candidates all want to get rid of gay marriage--despite the fact that it has had little impact on anything here except an uptick in tourism because most of the people getting married here come from nearby states.

Ron, Pat and others, how do you think the Republicans "obstruct"? The Dems have control over it all. They don't even need the Republicans to vote if the Dems are all on the same page. The Republicans can't stop anything at this point UNLESS some Dems have the same view.

BP !

You know Red I hope that somebody in the Justice Dept. is recording all this and saving it to use in the case. I looked at the feed at 4:30 this am and you can clearly see that if their getting 25 to 30 % they are lucky. You are right somebody in the media needs to start calling these folks on misinformation.

Hi IR!

Thanks for reminding everyone to go back & check out the 'Getting Personal' thread from Sat!

As for BP... the only thing I HATE more than a liar is a LIAR who's arrogant enough to think they're can get away with it!

Red as my Dear Old Redneck Daddy would say the only thing you can do to fellows like this is pour a certain part of their anatomy up in concrete and give them a dull knife to get loose with. Redneck justice is swift and sure along those lines.

Only as swift as the quikcrete, I'd say - HA (made me chuckle, IR)!

LMAO! :0)))

You sure had some WISE parents..

Clara you just have to make sure the quickcrete your using doesn't come from Halliburton. They tell me that junk fails 19 out of 23 times.

Feisty - I felt the same way this weekend. When I first saw the real photos of what is going on - I cried like a baby seeing all the birds covered in oil. So I spent yesterday at Big Basin National Park near Santa Cruz getting eaten alive by mosquitos.

Just wanted to mention again - Dawn dish soap actually gives a $1.00 for each bottle sold to help clean up birds. It is actually quite good on getting oil off. So please everyone, try to remember to buy Dawn dish soap! It is the soap that they use on the birds. Thank you!

I think it would be better if BP bought enough soap to help the people who are cleaning off the birds. Why in the HELL should I finance this effort by buying dish soap? Also, while I am at it, why are there VOLUNTEERS doing ANYTHING cleaning up this spill? Why isn't BP getting off of some of that money they have been hoarding to PAY for their mess?

Didn't have a chance to read the weekend articles so will definitely check out Domenico's weekend work.

The suspense is killing me! Still much better than watching Leboring James play against Kobe. Should be a great series. Is it tomrrow yet?

Morning Amy,

The FR team does continue to read the comments - Domenico dropped in a couple of time last week ;0)

Amy: To me the important thing is, Did FR report the story accurately. As you went back to the link, What did you find? If FR reported the story accurately. then they earn a "trust point".

Ron, I meant I could not find the usual link to First Read on the politics page.

I did find the link just now under Decision 2010, but I swear they hide it periodically. I do hope the writers check the comments as I would hate to think no one is listening to my complaints!

Thank you Ron and Fiesty.

I just mark it as a favorite and it's ALWAYS right there where I 'need' it! ha Glad you found it!

Amy,

Save FR under 'favorites' on your computer and you'll have direct access without having to 'hunt' for it all the time! Works like a charm...

Thank you.

You're welcome! Always happy to lend a 'hand' to a fellow libbie! :0)

Hey, Feisty! I think I finally have this posting thing figured out. I was using the wrong password. What a dork I am. :)

Hey there Ginger... I knew you could do it! Good to see ya! ;0)

Notice how only a handful of righties have been able to figure it out... LMAO!

Good! Keeps out the rif-raf--but then I was the rif-raf until just a little bit ago! LOL! By the way, I read an article that was really disturbing about the long term effects of the undersea plumes of oil. Is it ok to post links to articles here?

Try adding First Read to your favorites list. It's been in mine since the beginning, no searching required.

You were never rif-raf Ginger! :0)

For some reason the links are coming through where you can directly click on them... but put it out there anyway - I'll follow it to read as I'm REALLY interested in keeping the word out there that the WORST is yet to come...

I agree, I cannot find FR half the time on the Politics page. Sometimes not at all. There was only one FR story, and this one is it. I like when they have four or five in a line down the FR portion of the Politics page, otherwise, I'm lost.

What a great story about the Royals, Clara. I remember that team so well; we were all rooting for the Royals that year. It was a terrific and memorable World Series. Speaking of George Brett, my younger sister used to have photos of him all over her wall in work. She thought he was gorgeous! (I had forgotten all about that.)

(Celebrate what you've got!) lol!!!

Championships are so hard to get on a consistent basis. Just a few cities in all of sports have been able to do it. I just want ONE more. Just ONE. It's gonna be hard though. The Lakers are such a good team.

who are you kidding, Pat - ONE MORE CHAMPIONSHIP will never be enough! ha ha I'd say Go Celtics; but I'd be lying as I was born and my heart is still in LA! Come on Lakers keep it interesting; but keep it REAL!

Nice to see you Nashville_fan. We were wondering where you were! We're still missing people though. The Gang and MSierra are still AWOL.

Welcome home Nash awful glad to see you. I was afraid you had'nt made the transition.

Thanks for the welcome back . . . I took a weeks vacation that I couldn't afford with my family . . . now I'm back with my nose to the grindstone trying to pay for it all! :)

Hi GF!

I sent a shout out to you last week since we hadn't heard from you in awhile... just wanted to make sure all was okay!

Shame on you for living beyond your means... :0)))

If you need some popcorn to tide you over... let me know!

Hey Feisty . . . I do feel bad about living beyond my means . . . but hey, your kids are only little just this once, right? :o)

I'll keep you posted on the popcorn . . . gotta cut back so I'll be looking good for all my swimsuit pics this summer!

lol

but thanks for stimulating the economy - too bad it was a red state,...ha ha(planning to do my own red state support in a month)! I will ping you with the group Libs R Us we've got an 'after hours' thread rolling for when the manor closes! chat with you soon!

Thanks Clara . . . hopefully I'm tech savvy enough to figure out how to join in! :o)

A week with your family? You can afford it, Nashville.

Thanks for putting it all in perspective drive-by-observer!

Hey Clara - don't forget me!! I will finally have access to the internet at home by this weekend!! Thanks!

Glad to see you Nashville--we need every lib/progressive voice we can get!

I'm on it, GF! see you out and about!

And why did it take 20 years for the claims filed against Exxon to get resolved. 20 years and then the Supreme Court reduced the money jurors had felt appropriate; some of the claimants had died during that time. Disgusting.

And why are republicans fighting so hard to block the Senate from raising the limit? You'd think people, especially in the Gulf, would be asking whether the GOP cares more about them or BP.

I think what's not being appreciated is the fact the oil is still gushing into the Gulf. Its not like the Exxon Valdeze where a finite amount of oil was at issue. So, the booms and other efforts at cleaning is like pushing a rock with string. The reality is we don't have all the resources to save the coast line of an oil spill of this magnitude...Obama needs to ask for help from other nations....after all, aren't we always there to help them in their times of need?

The fact of the matter is that there is NOTHING the Obama Administration can do about stopping or cleaning up this oil spill. They are NOT equipped to be able to handle this sort of catastrophe. To think that 'President Obama should have DONE something' is a pretty weak argument.

In this context, BP COULD have done all they could to contain the spill. I think that if BP had been more forthcoming about the issue, people would be more forgiving and more willing to accept that 'accidents happen'. However, BP in it's arrogance has made matters worse. We can play the 'woulda, coulda' game is we want to, but the bottom line is that the Gulf might as well be paved over and used as a parking lot because that is how useful it will be for DECADES to come.

The Federal Government had NO CHOICE but to trust BP, and we see that BP fell down on the job. The only recourse that the Federal Government has, in my opinion, is to sue BP and MAKE THEM PAY for the decades long cleanup, no matter what the cost. I believe this is where the Administration is going. Be prepared for long, drawn out lawsuits that wil ltake YEARS to settle.

OK, with that being said, you have already seen the BP commercials on TV. They are going to do what they can to salvage the very profitable oil pocket that is seeping into the Gulf, and yes, that will mean MORE hundreds of thousands of gallons of the black, gooey stuff in the Gulf. That means that those very RED states will become the POOREST states of this country, simply because they will NOT have a means to make a living.

The Ironic part of all of this is that those very RED states will CONTINUE to vote for the GOP, even though we are seeing NO real committment from the GOP to help anyone but themselves. Gov. Hayley Barbour's comments should say it all.

It is sad, really, really sad.

Let me see if I understand you, Pietro...

The Minerals Management Service and the Interior Department, managed by Obama appointees who permitted and were tasked with overseeing the operation of the blown-out well...have no responsibility.

And...

The Obama Administration and the federal government have absolutely no role or responsibilty to clean up the spill from the well THEY permitted and were responsible for overseeing.

Even Obama sycophants like NY Times columnists Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich, and Bob Herbert concede the shortcomings of his Administration's response to the spill...

MSNBC luminaries like Chuck Todd, Andrea Mitchell, and astonishingly, Rachel Maddow don't appear impressed with the federal government's clean-up effort...

President Obama himself insists that he's responsible for handling the response to the spill, and that, indeed, the buck stops with him...

But you, Pietro...take the view that there's NOTHING the Obama Administration could have or should have done differently.

I assume then that you're delighted with the Administration's performance in this catastrophe...

That's really sad too.

Mixed Bag, it REALLY is not nice to take what I posted out of context. What I posted was that the Obama Administration could do NOTHING to STOP or CLEAN UP the spill. I did NOT say that they weren't culpable for the CONDITIONS that precipitated the spill. C'mon, man, you can do better than that.

I posted that the Obama Administration CANNOT clean up the spill by themselves, so therefore they had to TRUST BP to do it. I DID NOT say anything about responsibility other than BP should have and take responsibility for the spill. As far as the Obama Administration taking responsibility for the spill, did the Obama Administration drill for this oil? If so, show me where the Obama Administration workers actually were on the rig that exploded, killing 11 people. By your logic, those 11 people would be Obama Administration workers, not BP workers.

Mixed Bag, when are you going to STOP making things up?

Where you and I agree is the PERCEPTION of the Obama Administration is where there is a problem. However, I submit that those making this argument are disingenuous. NOW we want 'Big Gubmint' to step in when there is a catastrophe? What happened to the 'Drill, Baby, Drill' and 'Government IS the PROBLEM' crowd?

Your logic is akin to a bratty child who gets hit by a car because he refuses to listen to his parents when they tell him to stop running into the street. Now that the brat is hit by a car, we are laying ALL of the blame on the DRIVER of the car? Mixed Bag, your logic doesn't pass the giggle test- for anyone.

Finally, the President says he will take the responsibility for the spill and that the buck stops with him. Presonally, I would not have done that, but I am not the president, am I? In respect to your comment that I felt that the Obama Administration could have or should have done differently is YOUR conjecture, not mine. I made NO mention of what they could have/should have done in my post. I did mention that they should be LARGE FINES assessed to BP to MAKE THEM PAY for the cleanup.

It's amazing how you missed that.

It's amazing how someone who reads a simple, straightforward post can be so wrong in it's interpretation, especially when they inject their 'spin' on the post. Thank goodness that everyone can see what was posted for themselves and make up their own minds.

And what is REALLY SAD is that you cannot read a post without injecting your hyperbole.

Really sad, indeed.

Mixed Bag,

I don't think Pietro's delighted with the Administration's response--clearly it hasn't been perfect. However, the stage was set way back up the road with the Bush Administration and the Dick Cheney secret meeting with oil execs. And while that doesn't solve the response issues in the here and now--it does mean that there needs to be serious criminal examination not only of BP, but also of former politcos who made decisions which are now coming home to roost.

Each and every voter who agrees with the statement that there needs to be LESS government and then rushes to blame GOVERNMENT for not being more productive needs to look in the mirror for a quick examination of conscience. You get the government you vote for and for EIGHT YEARS we had a deregulated environment where the crooks ran the jail (so to speak). That doesn't get overturned in the blink of an eye. Especially since many Bush/Republican appointees burrowed deeper into their holes.

If the Mainstream Press had been more diligent in questioning the prior administration about their policies instead of sucking up to them at every available opportunity some of this might have seen the cleansing light of day. But with corporate and media consolidation you get what they want you to see. I keep thinking of the scene with Anthony Hopkins and Brad Pitt in Meet Joe Black.

All this does not mean I absolve the current administration from doing every single thing in their power to facilitate the cleaning up of the mess...BUT...let's be realistic about what they really can do. I want to see existing environmental laws ENFORCED to the max. I want to see Corporate heads roll for faulty decisions and the same goes for government heads as well.

Rant over.

Hey Ginger - I think what is being bandied about here is what the Obama Administration's response to the oil spill in the Gulf was like. I submit that, to borrow a phrase from Independent Redneck, the barn door was closed after the Palominos were out grazing (Sorry, IR, I tried. Not bad for a city kid, eh?). Hindsight is 20/20.

I think that all of this 'noise' about what The Obama Administration SHOULDA done is just that - noise. As far as what the Administration is GONNA do, that's different. I know that the President is going to take responsibility - even though it IS NOT HIS. That's going to be HIS problem. There is no way the Administration should shoulder the responsibility for something that they cannot fix. however, I can see where the GOVERNMENT has to do SOMETHING to keep the people appeased. I submit that this gambit/risk by the President will NOT go as well as he thinks.

Maybe this is cover for the Red State Governors, Senators, Congressmen. Maybe the President feels that he MUST do this. I Disagree with that sentiment, but then, I am not President, am I?

Ginger, you are right- we have to be realistic on what this Government can do about the situation. The mere fact that we are into th 3rd month of goo spewing from the bottom of the Gulf is CLEAR proof that NO ONE knows how to stop this thing (and yes, that includes the GOVERNMENT). The people who SHOULD know how to stop this thing are looking to save their own sorry butts.

As with most things, people are more inclined to direct their ire at the GOVERNMENT and NOT at the cause of their consternation. Because everyone is 'firing' at the President, BP is going to slink out the back door and try and save it's OWN sorry butt - at YOUR expense.

This is TRULY sad, indeed.

Pietro-

I'm sorry that you feel that I misinterpreted your comments. To avoid that problem, I'll stick to direct quotes from you...how's that?

When you said "...there is NOTHING the Obama Administration can do about stopping or cleaning up this oil spill...", I felt that was a pretty equivocal statement on your part that didn't leave a lot open to interpretation. I think it was your emphasis on the word NOTHING that clinched your view of the matter.

That is what you posted and that is what I responded to. The fact that you and I disagree that President Obama and the federal government are helpless giants in this catastrophe is the real issue here, as I see it, based on the above quote from you.

Frankly, I largely agree with the first of your two assertions, ie that the Administration can do little other than offer the advice of it's own experts to BP in the effort to permanently cap the blown-out well. In the end, it will be BP's engineers and equipment that will stop the leak on the ocean floor.

Regarding the fact that you believe that the Obama Administration is and has been powerless regarding the clean-up of the spill is simply absurd...and for sure, it's an argument that President Obama would never, ever make.

Barack Obama was elected in part because he successfully convinced the American electorate that he could effectively operate the levers of government for the benefit of the public. He proved to be a very persuasive advocate for that premise during the 2008 election campaign.

He would never assert that the government involvement he is so deeply committed to, in so many instances, is ineffective, and in fact powerless, in terms of positively impacting the effects of this environmental disaster.

Never...ever.

And, to his credit, he has not done that.

I'm surprised that you, as an Obama supporter, would attempt to make that argument.

Mixed Bag, OK. Thanks for responding to my post. I'll dial down the Pietro-snark-o-meter a bit. If you want to use direct quotes with me, that's fine. At least the context will be preserved when we are discussing these issues.

When I said 'There is NOTHING that the Obama Administration can do to stop or clean up this oil spill' I meant what I said. The mere fact that 2 months on we are still seeing toxic goo spewing into the Gulf reinforces my argument. The capitalised 'NOTHING' does provide the emphasis right where I wanted it. As far as the Obama Administration being a 'helpless giant', in this case, that is a TRUE statement. Again, if that was NOT a true statement, then the spill would have been stopped by the Government already, correct?

In regards to your assertion - and I quote: " Regarding the fact that you believe that the Obama Administration is and has been powerless regarding the clean-up of the spill is simply absurd...and for sure, it's an argument that President Obama would never, ever make." - well, let's explore that a bit. First of all, you have no IDEA of what I believe and to make that statement that I DO believe the Obama Administration is and has been powerless makes you a bit clairvoyant.

However, I will help you out - the Obama Administration itself is very capable of doing the clean-up, but the WILL for the Administration to do the cleanup, I believe, is not there, as this will let BP off the hook for the mess they made. It will also commit Taxpayer dollars to clean up a mess that does not directly benefit the taxpayer. As far as President Obama NOT making that argument - publicly - I will agree with you. I PERSONALLY am making the argument that if President Obama DID direct the Government to cleanup BP's mess, the GOP would have a field day with him politically. President Obama is a lot of things, but STUPID is not one of them. In his position, I am SURE he has already throught through ALL of the political angles.

Stating that the President would never, ever assert that Government involvement is ineffective, and in fact powerless, in terms of positively impacting the effects of this environmental disaster is disingenuous at best. I think that the President is TACITLY telling everyone that this is NOT something that the Government can fix right away. Could President Obma have forseen this type of DISASTER when he was campaigning? Of course not. However, he seems to be lending as much support as he can to the people affected by the disaster.

I will go on record saying that this Administration - or ANY Administration - does NOT have the tools to deal with this sort of disaster, so therefore they WOULD be powerless to do anything about the spill. Of course, if the Governemnt wanted to raise taxes so that they COULD be ready for disasters like this, we would have a very large outcry. We wouldn't want that, would we? We wouldn't want people to think that the extra monies would go to the DEFICIT, would we?

So, as an Obama supporter, I AM making that argument.

Yes, part of the campaign process is to convince people that the candidate CAN operate the levers of government in the best interest of the voting public, but how WOULD you charaterise this situation? Do you need a SPECIFIC reference to this disaster in the campaign to appease your sensabilities?

As far as I am concerned, President Obama, whom I voted for, is doing EVERYTHING I voted him into office to do. I may not agree with him with this DISASTER, but I think I can understand why he took this problem on himself. Maybe we can start focusing on the solutions and remedies - which are MORE important - instead of the nonsense we are seeing in the press today about the response TO the disaster.

Mixed Bag, thanks for your response.

"As far as the Obama Administration being a 'helpless giant', in this case, that is a TRUE statement. Again, if that was NOT a true statement, then the spill would have been stopped by the Government already, correct?"

No, Pietro...not necessarily, and that is the point I've been trying to make. And please remember...I'm only addressing your emphatic assertion that the Obama Administration can do "NOTHING" with regard to "cleaning up this oil spill". My comments here are not in reference to the leak on the ocean floor...I've already essentially voiced agreement with you about the blown out well itself.

The Obama Administration had nearly five weeks to prepare for the oil that's already fouled the Gulf Coast, and is continuing to foul it...the Deepwater Horizon exploded and sank on April 20th, but the oil didn't begin coming ashore until May 20th.

When it did come ashore, the Administration had not prepared sufficient resources to even begin to deal with it...sufficient numbers of vessels offshore, clean-up workers with containment booms and skimmers, and environmental waivers that would have allowed the locals to act promptly in building berms and barriers to the spill. The Obama Administration appeared to be paralyzed in responding to this disaster...and that's why you've heard people as varied as native Louisianan and partisan Democrat James Carville howling as loud as local officials and Louisiana's Republican governor.

Your suggestion that if the federal government could have done something it would have, simply casts aside the issue of the Obama Administration's competence...I'm arguing something far different.

I'm arguing that if the Administration had shown sufficient leadership and organizational skills, they could have constructed a much more coherent response to the oil that's already come ashore had they effectively utilized the immense resources of the federal government in cooperation with local jurisdictions.

I'm holding them accountable for their RESPONSE to this disaster...

You're suggesting that the Administration was helpless and that there's nothing they could have done to interfere with the fouling of the Gulf Coast.

In doing so, you appear to be issuing your own waiver of responsibility.

If you're OK with that...it's cool.

Mixed Bag, Thanks again for your response. I think that your critique of the Administration's response may be a bit - for the lack of a better word - shrill. My impression of your post (and you can correct me if I am wrong) is that as soon as the BP rig blew up, you expected the Government to been there - in full force - at a PRIVATE rig. Is that what you are eluding to? You are upset because the Administration did not IMMEDIATELY get involved in a situation that BP stated they had under control. Is that a correct statement?

If so, then what I posted stands. The Administration did NOT get involved until it was clear that BP was not able to stop the spill, and even then, the Government had to TRUST BP because the Government does NOT drill for oil. BP fell down on the job... so now we have a spill that is fouling the Gulf coastline.

Maybe I am missing something here... so how was the RESPONSE to this situation lacking when a PRIVATE company stated they had everything 'under control'? Are you stating that the Government should have 'taken over' the situation on the PRIVATE rig?

You take issue with my assertion that the Government cannot do ANYTHING about 'cleaning up the spill'. OK, that's fair game, but it's kinda hard to clean up a spill until the SOURCE of that spill is contained. If the source of the spill was ALREADY contained, then you and I would have a place where we could agree. The mere fact that the SOURCE of the spill is not contained deflates your argument.

Now, if you asserted that the STATE Governments did nothing to prepare for this spill, then I would agree with you. Heck, we have the situation where some of the Gulf Coast states still haven't asked the Federal Government to help. It is my understanding that the Governors of those Gulf States have to ASK for Federal help before it is granted. Instead of asking for help, Gov. Jindal wrote a letter asking the President to rescind the drilling rights ban enacted... so who is being disingenuous here?

My statement(s) still stand. The Federal Government is NOT equipped to handle this sort of catastrophe. Once the Federal Gov't was involved, it HAS to rely on BP to fix the problem. BP hasn't fixed the problem, so there is NO CLEANUP until the rogue well is capped. So, therefore nothing is done because the problem, which the Federal Government is NOT equipped to handle, remains a problem.

And your argument is that the Federal Government's RESPONSE is lacking? I disagree. I think that the problem has not been solved yet and BP is the one whose response has been lacking. Once the well is capped, THEN we can start the cleanup.

Not before.

Thanks again for your response to my post.

I don't know whether or not you're interested, Pietro, but ABC News/Washington Post have released a poll this afternoon measuring Americans' opinion of the Obama Administration's response to the BP oil disaster:

Overall, 69% of respondents rated the federal government's response negatively; 28% positively.

Broken down by party affiliation, 56% of Democrats, 74% of Independents, and 81% of Republicans assessed the Administration's response negatively.

Compared with Katrina and the Bush Administration in 2005, the same poll recorded that 62% of the public viewed the federal government's response negatively.

My views on the Obama Administration's response to the cataastrophe are not the minority opinion, Pietro...not even among Democrats.

Regards,

MB

Mixed Bag, I fail to see the value of a poll of what the Administration's response to a situation that the Government CANNOT fix is worth. I will stipulate that NO ONE wants to see the oil spill in the Gulf, but for the LIFE of me I cannot understand why people are so predisposed as to blame the GOVERNMENT fo the problem (or the response to it) when it was a PRIVATE CORPORATION that caused the mess in the first place.

Isn't this what everyone wanted - the GOVERNMENT out of our lives? NOW the GOVERNMENT RESPONSE wasn't quick enough... I see...

When you can show me where the Government has a (working) oil drilling detail, then I'll agree that the RESPONSE to an oil rig catastrophe was lacking. Until I see that, then I stand by my statement(s) in my post - the Government does not know how to drill oil wells, so in this case, they can do NOTHING about it. They have to rely on the expertise of those who DO drill oil wells.

I think worrying or judging the RESPONSE to a catastrophe it is a pretty SILLY point to make politically or otherwise. Maybe we should be concentrating on stopping the well from leaking first?

Nah. That would actually make sense.

Thanks for the post, Mixed Bag.

Mixed Bag, your logic confuses me. If the government took over BP's responsibility, are they not responsible for expanding government?

Should the government violate the legal contracts the prior administration/lawmakers implemented in who is responsible for providing the clean up?

If this oil well is producing millions of gallons of oil that continues to gush, then how many people would it take to clean it up?

Final question...when a Volcano continues to erupts, how many people will it take to clean up the gushing ash?

Hey Jody. I always enjoy your well thought out, well reasoned posts.

You would think that NOW we would be looking at alternate methods of energy production. You would think that NOW we would look at other means of being able to power our industries. You would think that NOW we would be looking at more high-speed rail, mass transit. You would think that with all of this going on in the Gulf, we would be working a little smarter, not harder.

I submit that there is NO will - political or otherwise - to use this catastrophe to propel the United States into the 21st century. This type of catastrophe is the EXACT catalyst we need for us to think out of the box. As you can see with our President, he is limited in how he can propose and promote his agenda for 'clean energy' because the 'old guard' will not allow it.

I submit that we will DIE as a country if we DON'T start looking forward.

I find it fascinating that people will wait until something they KNOW is toxic blow up in their faces before they would even consider any alternatives. I think that our Gulf States are going to feel the effects ofthis spill for a long time to come.

Let's just hope these very RED states come to their senses and vote in people who actually care.

The problem I see Bighorn is that the people that replace the politicians that are currently on the special interest take will just be the new people on the special interest take, integrity isn't spoken in D.C. anymore it's all driven by greed and power, a very cynical viewpoint I suppose, and I don't mean to dash your enthusiasm but as long as people think they can vote their way out of the our current Plutocratic mess nothing will change, not until people realize that their vote is all part of the hoax will things change.

Eric, in response to why the video person did not help the bird was explained in another or later interview. apparently only "trained" people are allowed to capture the wildlife hurt by the oil spill. The trained staff will come and get them and try to save them. i do not really understand why they don't want to stress the bird more by having an untrained person get the bird out of the oil. But I believe that cameraman was following order NOT to touch the bird. To me it seems that they need to train more people on how to help the animals.

Any reason why Rachel Madcow didn't stop to help the bird?

"Here in NJ Governor Christie is making sense by telling the state workers that they will have to take less.

You may not like it but this is the future."

The problem I have with that Alan is the Governor should be asking every citizen to take less, it seems durring hard times in this country the people with the least are always ask to give the most, what are the wealthy going to give up?

Residence. They'll move to PA. Actually all citizens will take less as property taxes are still going to go up. This is to solve the over spending and promises of previous administrations. Sound familiar.